is a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributor
honestly, i'd say fuck those friends. if they didnt like you because you came out, it just shows that they arent actually good friends at all. you probably might want to find better friends.

hai people, im a bi enby. i main larp on our discord server so you might know me from there!
whats wrong with being anti-theist… :wo:
It depends. On principle, nothing really, but in practice most people who use that label (including past versions of myself) are fucking obnoxious and ineffectual in how they advocate against religion/spiritualism. I still believe pretty much all the same things I used to believe, including that religion in general is a net detriment to society, but the fact of the matter is there are much bigger fish to fry, and most of the negative shit I ascribed to religiousity is a lot more complicated than that.

Bigotry against LGBTQ+ people, for example, doesn't really come from religion; that's a gross oversimplification that misses the more important systemic issues of toxic masculinity and conservatism that often overlap with religiosity, but aren't fundamentally tied to it, and alienates the millions of religious people who are my allies on far more important social and economic issues that have more of an impact on my life than religion does.

There's more, too, but I have to leave for work soon. Maybe I'll come up with a longer post later.


the new pokemon DLC has bathrooms and it has

red = male
blue = female
neutral bathroom for everyone

I love this because not only did they do a gender neutral bathroom, honestly I'm more imprwssed they decided to say fuck you to how the west color codes male/female

especially since it's arbitrary and other places have always used different colors

based pokemon, rare game freak LGBT W (still not beating the homophobia allegations), I'm sure everyone will be totally normal about this

what do yall think about this


what homophobia allegations?
should not be a wonder why people may find a game to be homophobic when all means of attraction in the series are based solely on hetero norms even in the year 2023

like pokemon only being able to be infatuated by the opposite gender

plus it still fails to support non-binary people, keeps norms by having so many gender locked clothing options
what is your point
that none of this stuff matters. pokemon is not embracing archaic gender standards by making the move attract only work on heterosexual pokemon interactions. its a game about wild animals and thats how wild animals behave. clothing options being tied to the gender you start with sorta sucks sure but there's still so much freedom with customization on how to express yourself in these games (i was able to make a character that felt like me in every switch title)

but at the end of the day this stuff is soooo small in comparison to real world queer issues. i find it insulting and laughable to be this offended and call gf homophobic for how the breeding system and attract tm work. there are so many more important things to focus on and i hope in the future you can spend your energy caring about those instead of video game bathrooms and digital costumes.


its a game about wild animals and thats how wild animals behave
pokemon are objectively sentient in canon. as in, they have human intelligence, human behaviors, and in some media human like societies.

no shit there are "bigger issues" but guess what. your smogon thread is not doing shit. it's not fixing any problems

to just be like "lol don't talk about thing I don't agree with" and then fuckin act like it's a matter of hierarchical importance is just shutting down a conversation you don't like for no good reason

where were you the days before where nobody was talking here sounding the alarms, "Oh no! We must use our time wisely in order to solve queer problems!"

you weren't because no normal person sees a smogon thread in that much importance to real life political issues

in short: if you don't have a better conversation, then why shut down another one under the guise of "bigger fish to fry"


Take care of yourself.
is a Tiering Contributoris a Community Contributor Alumnus
I miss when this thread was about synthesizing Foucault's History of Sexuality and Guattari's Everybody Wants To Be a Fascist to show how the Cryonicles winning SPL was a horrifying indictment of the degree of social control Baxcalibur balance had exerted over the hapless and largely apathetic OU playerbase. This is because of a phenomenon I've abserved in which the Smogon queer community at large has been thoroughly and completely encapsulated by the primitivist, solarpunk, and anti-furry game Super Auto Pets. Now to an untrained eye there is nothing wrong with this so-called game: it's just a bunch of cute animals fighting in a simplistic way. However, beneath the surface there's a lot to talk about here.

The ultra-simplified animals not only stand in direct contrast to maximalist furry aesthetics, they're also directly intended to strip down Pokemon to its barest oversimplifications. Super Auto Pets operates in a "post-design" space in which the individual Pokemon subject is replaced by a generic and Godless animal symbol, similar to Debord's description of symbols being completely interchangeable with the things-in-themselves in his book The Society of the Spectacle.


Compare and contrast: Wild, overdesigned, and ultimately transgressive (despite its best attempts otherwise) furry avatar, against absolute hyper-generic hedgehog (image directly from Super Auto Pets). Ask yourself, which of these would you be more likely to see in a video game under a totalitarian regime? Where is Sonic the Hedgehog?

In Super Auto Pets, the player is not meant to have agency. Between each battle we see the invisible hand of the market provide them with a decent sum of money with the choice of buying pets and items (anything not picked is swiftly slaughtered or thrown away). During the dismal fights, the player can do nothing but watch as their auto-EV trained, all natural army faces off against the GMO sludge of the masses. Even then, they are expected to relentlessly "display skill" by turning the right levers through their financial decisions so that they may survive even this winter. Does it have any impact? Of course not. If you buy the duck enough times, does Big Duck enter a state of prosperity? If you fetishize the commodities, will they really care about you and protect you?

Ordinarily, something like this could be dismissed as a simple escapist activity for solarpunkcels ("feed your animals soy and they will grow stronger"). However, the extent to which it has captivated otherwise red-blooded Pokemon players must not be understated. Where are our Tryhards, I ask? Where are our Button-Clickers? Is there really no difference between our Pokemon and...this?

Now, I would argue that the primary reason for this has to do with Terastallization in the 9th generation ("one symbol being exchanged for another" in a very literal sense). Zoomers have lost faith in the ability of a Pokemon to be something or do something. Games are won and lost not by Pokemon but by abstract conceptions such as "Tera Psychic Volcarona" (a meaningless, design-less construct). Even in-game, the player is increasingly guided by non-human entities such as Sun and Moon's Rotom Dex or more recently a Switch-compatible implementation of ChatGPT. We talk to characters in games that introduce themselves as AI language models and wonder why people are choosing to go deeper into the Matrix, into the world of cutesy turtles and cows.

A lesser theorist would dismiss this as a mass madness, but I'm prepared to truly go deeper: this is indicative of a return to truly anonymous and free Internet culture. No longer are there people, but instead slimy primordial beings, arranging and re-arranging the same stock image animals like protein sequences, picking arbitrary word sequences for their team names. Entropy is entering an even further stage, and this is what it looks like.
Last edited by a moderator:
I used to question my sexuality. Do I still fall under the questioning category?

I thought I was gay and had a few boyfriends but now I know I'm straight. Am I grandfathered into the 'questioning' category?
usually no, as questioning falls more for people currently in questioning
still though, always nice to explore your options. even if you end up going back to straight, you got to know yourself better :)
like pokemon only being able to be infatuated by the opposite gender
In defense of this, heteronormativity is the only thing keeping Attract* balanced game design wise. I do agree with you fundamentally, but I think in order for the move to be fine balancing wise and be queer friendly infatuation would need to be toned down.

*Cute Charm is like, fine. Nothing too relevant gets it and wants to use it over another ability (except CM Enam-I), but infatuation being toned down would by extension nerf it.
Captivate is the real issue IMO, it does the fundamental same thing as charm (lowers spa by 2 stages), and yet it’s gender locked for literally no reason.
Really, I don't understand why Attract as a status condition is even a thing in the first place, unless it's just distracting aesthetic attarction, which wouldn't necessarily be gender locked, ala stupid sexy Flanders effect. Falling in actual-love mid-combat might be a thing, but it's awkward as heck, and in any realistic situation, would result in the battle being broken up by the trainers to make sure the Pokemon's feelings weren't hurt when the condition wore off! After all, the bruises and scratches Pokemon inflict on eachother with attacks can be healed with potions and revives, but 10 year olds aren't very good at treating emotional trauma.

ryo yamada2001

ryo yamada2001
is a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
yasss buffing attract would be so validating and representative! i'd feel so brave and valid getting haxed by it :3

zee said:
but at the end of the day this stuff is soooo small in comparison to real world queer issues. i find it insulting and laughable to be this offended and call gf homophobic for how the breeding system and attract tm work. there are so many more important things to focus on and i hope in the future you can spend your energy caring about those instead of video game bathrooms and digital costumes.
agreed, this thread used to be home to many interesting posts, discussions, anecdotes, and even conflicts that helped shape and inform my worldview as a young queer person. it's unfortunate to see the thread devolve into a sort of discord server with inane posts about inconsequential shit that can only be responded to with "they put pissing in pokemon?!" (read: who cares) and "holy shit go outside" (read: this is not important)

in the end im happy that this is a community for baby queers to feel safe in, but i do kinda wish the posts skewed less towards memey shitposting and more about queer experiences, coming out posts, and other things of real life consequence like this thread was before
in the end im happy that this is a community for baby queers to feel safe in, but i do kinda wish the posts skewed less towards memey shitposting and more about queer experiences, coming out posts, and other things of real life consequence like this thread was before
I read this whole thread a while ago, so I saw the shift happen as I went. I think this is just the natural progression of having one single hub for lgbt topics, where serious and more jokey ones have to share space + the fact smogon has gotten bigger + changes in the social landscape itself. Theres more places to talk about more serious lgbt topics, which are considered more appropriate than smogon


concrete angel
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Wow, congrats on making a post where ~90% of the key words probably aren't anywhere in the bible, or any other text written before the digital era! Never do that again.
Picture this: the postmodern Eevee, a polymorphous creature embodying the multiplicities of postmodern philosophy, dynamically shifts through its potential evolutions, each representing a facet of 20th-century thought. From Flareon's fiery embrace of Bataillean excess to Umbreon's chiaroscuro of Foucauldian power dynamics, a speculative menagerie emerges, mirroring our intellectual odyssey.

In the realm of Pokemon, the diverse characters and creatures align with this fragmented narrative, akin to the Unown's cryptic symbols that offer multiple meanings. This reflects the varied viewpoints and interpretations present in online discourse.

Now, let's take Ash at the beginning of Season 1 of the anime, standing at the threshold of intellectual awakening—a veritable Eevee in its nascent stage. In the grand tapestry of ideas, Ash embodies the essence of a philosophical tabula rasa, a blank slate. This discrepancy between Ash's initial state and the potential complexity of Eevee's evolutions epitomizes the broader reluctance within society to grapple with the intricate tapestry of postmodernism. Much like Eevee's evolutions offer a spectrum of philosophic expression, postmodernism encompasses a range of diverse theories and ideologies that mirror our fragmented reality.

Ash embraces the simplistic and binary worldview many of us hold. Perhaps a fleeting semblance of fiery passion, akin to Charmander's nascent flame, flickers, but it lacks the depth and nuance of an actual ideology. Consider Slaking - what does Slaking do, really? Nothing. It's held back by its poor ability (Truant), limiting its sets, just like you are limiting your ability to engage with discourse right now with your response "none of these words are in the bible - do not engage with the media I like in ways I am unable to understand". However, you don't have to be Truant Slaking - you could be Poison Heal Slaking. You could be the Slaking that got banned from Balanched Hackmons, an unstoppable force threatening our existence in a way that terrifies the consciousness of the normie. I mean, why do you think Land or anyone from the CCRU has failed to gain significant headway in philosophy? You either coat your philosophy in heavy amounts of pop culture like Mark Fisher in Capitalist Realism or you become an ironic foil of your own ideology like Land and the Dark Enlightenment.

Regardless, I'm getting off topic. My point is, like Pokemon, we're all limited by our abilities and movesets - it's only when we actually engage with ideas such as postmodernism (Balanced Hackmons) or even more normie appealing ideologies like existentialism (Almost Any Ability) or even basic Marxism (STABmons) that we really get anywhere. Don't be Hustle Darumaka, a powerfull fireball that misses 20% of the time or that ends up killing itself with Flare Blitz recoil before it actually does anything. Evolve your brain.

Really, I think this Pokemon example is quite poignant for you. Eevee's potential metamorphoses and Ash's intellectual journey beckons us to consider the need to embrace the diversity and richness that postmodernism offers. It's an invitation to venture beyond the binary, to traverse the intricate maze of philosophic exploration, and to grapple with the myriad evolutions of thought that define our epoch.

In a world where online discourse mirrors the enigmatic symbols of the Unown, embracing this complexity is imperative. It's an endeavor to transmute from an unevolved Eevee to a profound intellectual Umbreon, understanding that within this spectrum lies the crux of our intellectual evolution. For it is in the dance of complexity, the shimmering chiaroscuro of ideas, that the true essence of our contemporary intellectual odyssey resides.
Last edited by a moderator:


is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Community Leader
  • No derailing with memes: While the occasional meme is alright within reason, steer clear of using them to derail the present discussion, as they tend to undermine the serious discussion that often goes on within this thread. Use Smogoff for posting completely unrelated material.
Gonna be doing a little bit of thread cleaning according to this rule. I'll also be removing a fair bit of stuff on the topic of the Pokemon move Attract, the first few posts about it were more than enough. This isn't a Theorymonning thread- hell, Cong is entirely a non-Pokemon subforum.

As a side note, if you want to shitpost with other gays, join the discord in the OP instead of posting one-liners!
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)