Other Tiers LGPE Metagame Megathread

Eve

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:sm/pikachu::sm/eevee:
This thread is a hub for resources and discussion of Let's Go metagames that aren't popular or important enough to warrant individual threads. If any of these tiers develop a playerbase, we can create new threads for them.

Index (currently planned tiers):
Candy OU
1v1
Monotype

Ubers
Anything Goes
NFE

Doubles OU

If you'd like to see discussion for a Let's Go metagame not listed here or in any other active thread, feel free to message me about it! As long as it isn't a ridiculous meta concept like Monotype LC or something, I'd be happy to see it in this thread.


We're working on tier resources to get things going. Watch this space, and feel free to post in the meantime!
 
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Eve

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is a Site Content Manageris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Eevee.gif
Candy OU
Mew.gif
Current Banlist: Mewtwo, Sappy Seed
This is going to act as an introduction to Candy OU as well as a resource hub, as it plays very differently to any other metagame and as such warrants explanation. It's quite lengthy and took me... quite a while to write, so I hope it's useful to anyone interested in playing or just learning what the meta was like!


What is Candy?
Candy is the item used to give a Pokemon Awakening Values (AVs). AVs, like EVs, allow for further training to individual stats. However, in this case, they allow for a Pokemon to buff every stat by 200 points. This flat increase to every stat makes the metagame proportionally bulkier, as an increase to both HP and Defenses significantly outweighs an increase to Attacking stats. It also provides a greater buff to lower base stats; for example, Chansey's Attack and Defense are quintupled, while Melmetal's aren't even doubled. Don't worry though, Chansey is awful anyway! I'll explain why later.
Standard OU: Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. Mew: 102-122 (58.2 - 69.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Candy OU: Melmetal Double Iron Bash (2 hits) vs. Mew: 168-198 (31 - 36.5%) -- approx. 64.1% chance to 3HKO

Even something as naturally bulky as Mew is buffed to be almost twice as resistant to Melmetal.

Candy OU saw a good amount of play on the Nexus simulator (which I may or may not own) prior to the games' official release, under the assumption that it would become the main metagame for LGPE. Unfortunately, due to our decision to focus on the faster paced Candyless metagames and Cartridge's 20 minute timer making the metagame impractical anywhere other than Showdown, it has remained entirely dormant ever since. As such, there hasn't been any meta development, and even I've forgotten a lot about it. That isn't to say knowledge is lost though- there's plenty of old resources I rediscovered during the making of this that I'll link and reference to in this post.


What's the metagame like?
Firstly, it's important to note what makes a good Pokémon in this meta. Stats (other than Speed) aren't too important as the massive boost from AVs even them out quite well, meaning typing and movepools are by far the most important traits for most Pokemon. If a Pokemon gets Taunt, it probably runs it- the move is central to how the metagame plays. Without it, you'll most likely find yourself being overwhelmed by setup sweepers or Rest stalled for a ridiculous amount of time. Taunt is also the reason Chansey is bad, as it is completely helpless when hit with the move. The main traits other than Taunt that lead to success in the metagame are:

Speed: Many matchups in the metagame are won almost solely due to Speed advantage, especially if the faster Pokemon is carrying Taunt- this allows you to Taunt the opponent before they get to set up, heal, or Taunt you themselves, forcing them to use attacking moves or switch and providing you with momentum. Due to the Candy buff being applied after Natures, their increase to any stat other than Speed is considered negligible, and as a result it is common for every single Pokemon in a battle to be running a Speed boosting nature- even if a Pokemon has a unique Speed tier, like Melmetal, winning or at least not automatically losing a Speed tie in the mirror matchup is often more beneficial and applicable than any other nature would be.

Recovery: Instant Recovery, such as Recover and Roost, is valuable to allow a Pokemon to heal without giving up momentum like Rest does, although it does require the user to be more wary of Toxic if the Pokemon is not immune. Leech Seed is possibly even better, spreading residual damage and making users of the move extremely difficult to break. The most noteworthy user is Mega Venusaur, which is entirely immune to being worn down via Toxic and has massive bulk.

Stealth Rock: Stealth Rock are extremely useful for punishing switches, which can otherwise be extremely riskless due to the bulk of the metagame. They're also great at building offensive momentum from forcing switches, usually via Taunt shutting down the active opponent's options or Phazing moves such as Dragon Tail and Roar directly forcing a switch.

Paralysis access: Due to Speed stats being more similar percentage-wise as a result of Candy's flat increase, even traditionally slow Pokemon such as Melmetal can outspeed the entire paralyzed metagame. Outspeeding the opponent, as previously stated, is massively important, meaning Paralysis is a massive aspect of the metagame. The chance to outright prevent the opponent's options via full paralysis is great too.

Status Immunity: Due to the power of Paralysis and Toxic, Pokemon that can sponge the statuses thanks to their typing are more important than ever. Pretty easy to understand.

Setup Options: Pokemon that can successfully bolster their offenses, especially those with good longevity, have a massive edge in a metagame where many opponents will simply attempt to stall you out. Powerful examples include Mew, which can set up on a huge amount of Pokemon thanks to its good Speed, Taunt, and instant recovery in Roost, and Venomoth, which is immune to Toxic, also has Roost, and can even boost its Speed with Quiver Dance. Setup Pokemon need to be positioned carefully due to Taunt being capable of shutting them down and many of them being very vulnerable to status, but the progress they can make in a battle is unmatched.


Let's also look at some popular Pokemon, and see what they do:

:ss/mew:
Mew is, as always, extremely versatile, but much of its viability is a result of its decent Speed and access to Taunt, Roost, Will-O Wisp, and Dragon Tail. These moves can be added to a variety of sets, or used as a set of their own, to make Mew possibly the best anti-setup Pokemon the metagame has to offer. Taunt and Dragon Tail also pair amazingly to force damage across helpless teams, especially if Pokemon faster than Mew have been paralyzed. Mew's main weaknesses are that it's shut down hard by status and dislikes faster Taunt users, but it can definitely adapt its sets to minimize these weaknesses if the user so desires. Mew is probably the single best Pokemon in the metagame.

:ss/eevee:
Starter Eevee, on the other hand, is the most important Pokemon. Prior to the ban of Sappy Seed, its signature move that deals damage and afflicts the target with Leech Seed, it forced the metagame into a horrible state where players were forced to run Mega Venusaur and their own Starter Eevee to handle it, lest they find themselves completely unable to make progress. Nowadays, it sits comfortably in the metagame as not only the only Cleric via Sparkly Swirl but also the only status spreader that can entirely disregard Taunt due to its signature moves being damaging moves. As a result, it finds itself on almost every single team. However, you must be extremely careful when using it- without Sappy Seed, its longevity is quite lacking, so any damage it takes is likely to stick unless you manage to pull off a Rest safely or get it some Leech Seed recovery.

:ss/aerodactyl-mega::ss/alakazam-mega:
The advantage these two have is pretty obvious- they're the fastest Pokemon in the metagame, and both have access to Taunt and reliable recovery. This can make handling them extremely difficult, especially when backed by with answers to Pokemon like Melmetal and Alolan Muk that can take them on offensively.

:ss/venusaur-mega:
If you let this monster set up a Leech Seed, taking it down can become a chore. Leech Seed also acts as amazing team support, helping ease the blow of switching into attacks or Stealth Rock for its teammates or forcing an exploitable switch that provides one of its teammates safer entry. It isn't at all a fan of being Taunted, but many Taunt users aren't a fan of a Sludge Bomb poison either and its offensive presence can't be ignored.

:ss/melmetal:
Melmetal's ParaFlinch set is ridiculously potent, having great odds to prevent the opponent from moving at all and dealing solid damage- that is, if you don't consider the technicalities. Double Iron Bash has a pitiful 8 PP, meaning that it can be surprisingly easy to get stalled out of the move via smart switches and end up totally unable to make progress. As a result, Melmetal is often better in the lategame, where it can reliably pick off a few remaining Pokemon that can't afford to switch. It can also be useful earlier in a game for simply spreading paralysis, supporting its teammates to set itself up for later on.

:ss/golbat:
Golbat is a good example of a Pokemon whose traits are uniquely suited to have a decent niche in the metagame. Said list of traits includes a Toxic immunity, Roost, Taunt, and Phazing in Whirlwind, as well as being possibly the best answer to Venomoth. It's very passive outside of Taunt+Whirlwind to wear stuff down, but it's still far better than it has ever been in any other OU metagame and a genuinely viable choice.

As for an example of something that doesn't do as well in Candy OU:
:ss/beedrill-mega:
Mega Beedrill simply lacks the necessary tools to make much progress. It can at least make use of Roost and a Toxic immunity for an almost passable amount of longevity, but other Mega Evolutions offer much more in every regard. It may even be worse than Mega Pinsir, which, despite its Stealth Rock problems, at least has very respectable bulk, great Attack and access to Swords Dance.

Any other resources?
We never really experimented with enough to make a VR that would be agreed on. There were several made despite this, of course.
Here's KaxzerZ's VR from the time, although this was made prior to the banning of Sappy Seed.
Here's mine from early 2019, featuring some sample sets of varying quality. I think I got the higher tiers mostly correct, but the rest is very questionable.

I dug up some other stuff, too:
Some metagame discussion went on in this thread. Honestly forgot I was there.
Here are some Sample Sets KaxzerZ came up with.
Pikalytics somehow extracted usage stats from a side server (presumably replay scraping). This produced an initial OU list full of crazy mons.
Here are some Candy UU sets Tmi489 created.

If you want to dig through the replays of this bygone era, search PS's replay database with the format gen75letsgo. Some of them are awful (especially the first, like, 50 in the search list), some of them are honestly really intense, and to top it off there's replays of good players getting messed up by a Farfetch'd in there too. Yeah, Farfetch'd can actually do stuff here.

If anyone is interested in playing, feel free to hit me up directly on Discord (on my profile) or use the matchmaking channel in the LGPE Discord! I want to eventually start work on making modern resources, and having test battles and other players to discuss with would help massively.
The place to play Candy OU is, fittingly, still Nexus.
 
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Eve

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Doubles OU

Banlist: Mewtwo
Initial Council: Eve, Ausma
While it's certainly been played before by others, LGPE Doubles is still a brand new frontier. It's surprisingly fun too, preserving the classic feel of Doubles while doing what LGPE does best and creating new opportunities for innovation from what should be limitations. This post will serve as an introduction to this unexplored metagame!


How does the meta play out?
Let's take a look! First, some vital components of standard Doubles and how they work in LGPE:
:blastoise::raichu::raichu-alola::persian::persian-alola::kangaskhan::dewgong:
Yep! That's every Fake Out user. With how powerful Fake Out is in a metagame with only two viable immunities and no means of protecting yourself from it outside of Protect, these Pokemon become very valuable. The Persians have the uncontested fastest Fake Out, while also packing useful tools like Foul Play, Feint, Taunt, U-Turn, and even Hypnosis. Persian-A's STAB bonus on Foul Play and non-zero list of resistances make it almost entirely superior. The Raichus are up next, with utility such as dual screens, Encore, and Helping Hand to help them stand out. The choice between them is quite team-dependant, but generally Alolan Raichu's superior offensive presence and ability to pressure the likes of Venusaur gives it the edge despite its added common weaknesses. Mega Kangaskhan has the strongest Fake Out and great bulk and Speed, as well as great moves like Sucker Punch, Helping Hand, and Rock Slide, but can fall short on raw power due to its underwhelming STAB options- regardless, it is absolutely viable and good. Mega Blastoise may be slower, but its immensely powerful STAB options in Surf and Hydro Pump and coverage in Ice Beam help to offset this. Non-passive bulky Waters are generically good in Doubles and this one is no exception. Dewgong is certainly the least of the Fake Out users, reflected in its lowest Speed, but it has a few noteworthy tools in dual STAB priority options, Encore, and Helping Hand.
Paralysis and String Shot are the only available means of Speed control in LGPE outside of boosting your own Speed with Agility, Quiver Dance, or Shell Smash. This isn't a joke. Also, String Shot is limited exclusively to Beedrill and Butterfree so... Paralysis it is. This means that fast Electric-types are, for most purposes, entirely immune to Speed control. This is most important for the Raichus, Jolteon, and Electrode.
With the lack of options such as Friend Guard, Wide Guard, Charm, and redirection, the main way to provide support to defensively improve your wincons is via Reflect and Light Screen. Many viable Pokemon can set dual screens up with high Speed, such as Electrode, Mega Alakazam, Jolteon, and Raichus. Some means of lowering the opponents' Attack stats, such as Will-O-Wisp and Growl, also exist, as well as Sleep moves to entirely deny the opponents' attacks. Notable users of these include Will-o Wisp Mew, Growl/Yawn Jolteon, Hypnosis Persian-Alola or Gengar, and Sleep Powder Venusaur. Lastly come Disable and Encore from the likes of Gengar, Raichu, and Alakazam, which are capable of shutting down opposing offense extremely well.
Helping Hand is the best means of offensive support, bolstering the damage output of strong teammates to pick up KOs. Thunder Wave helps give your own fast attackers a massive edge over the opponent's and especially combos nastily with Rock Slide and Double Iron Bash. Moves such as Screech and even Tail Whip/Leer can be used to directly lower the opponent's defenses, while Brick Break can remove the extremely common screens and therefore increase your damage output. Fake Out also absolutely fits this category as well, and so does Feint which denies the main counterplay to Fake Out and can guarantee KOs on heavily weakened targets.

Here are some Pokemon to look out for:
:ss/persian-alola:
Alolan Persian is absolutely amazing. While all its non-Speed stats are somewhat lacking, its movepool more than makes up for that- with amazing tools including the fastest Fake Out, support in Feint, Taunt, and Screech, the ability to keep up momentum with U-Turn so it can be used to Fake Out again later in the battle, and the ability to deal great damage to many Pokemon with STAB Foul Play, Alolan Persian is the epitome of a support Pokemon. It even has the risky but potentially game-breaking option of fast Hypnosis, but typically its Fake Out / Foul Play / Feint / U-Turn set is its most effective.

:ss/melmetal:
Melmetal is just as silly in Doubles as it is in Singles! With an active teammate to help enable its immense tanking presence, access to strong spread options in Rock Slide and Earthquake, and the benefit of taking less from all of Earthquake, Surf, and Heat Wave in Doubles, it's tough to KO Melmetal without some specific Fire-type Pokemon or a well-planned double targeting and you'll probably be getting KOed in the process. It despises having its offensive presence neutered by Will-O-Wisp and somewhat misses being able to easily run and KO things with Earthquake, but is otherwise excellent and probably the single easiest Pokemon to throw on a team.

:ss/eevee-starter:
I promise you it's actually one of the best mons in this meta! "Just attack it" becomes far less free when it's next to threatening teammates like Melmetal that looove having the attention off them. It can also simply use Protect to render targeting it down useless, giving its teammate free reign to do whatever they please. Its ability to chip stuff down while spreading status and setting screens is even more valuable in Doubles, where Toxic isn't the best status, and it can even support with Helping Hand, but its main selling point is still Sparkly Swirl. Status is extremely powerful, between Sleep Powders, Thunder Waves, Will-O-Wisp, and opposing Eevee moves, and being able to cure entire teams of it in a single turn is insanely valuable in turning games around.

:ss/blastoise-mega::ss/venusaur-mega:
While this isn't a single mon, it seems to be a very strong core. Venusaur and Blastoise together have great typing coverage and bolster it even further with their great disruption tools in Fake Out and Sleep Powder. While Blastoise typically benefits the most from Mega Evolving, the opponent also has to account for the possibility of Venusaur Mega Evolving instead, further adding to the core's already impressive number of options. These two also work well with Zapdos, which can pivot around and loves not having to worry about Ground-types.

:ss/gengar-mega:
Gengar is fast, strong, and versatile, and it's also the only viable Pokemon immune to Fake Out. Shadow Ball, Sludge Bomb, and Protect are all but non-negotiable, with the last slot potentially housing any of Disable, Will-O-Wisp, Dazzling Gleam, or Taunt. Its most prominent answers in Single Battles significantly lack in utility outside of answering Gengar meaning they are hard to fit on teams, which often makes handling Gengar defensively either a guessing game or impossible. Its frailty may seem unappealing, but it more than makes up for it with the value of a Fake Out immunity and pairs amazingly with dual screens Jolteon to help offset this issue. Amazing mon and likely to shape the metagame no matter what.

:ss/aerodactyl::ss/rhydon::ss/nidoking:
Stealth Rock users. They're pretty good, if not only because they turn Mega Charizard Y from a nightmarish threat into a pushover. Their chip damage is invaluable as always for getting Pokemon into range of your attacks. Aerodactyl is a good option for Stealth Rock, being very difficult to prevent via double targeting thanks to its amazing Speed; it can also Mega Evolve given a good matchup and sufficient support to become a great threat in its own right, with Rock Slide (the flinches are a delight) and Earthquake being impressive sources of spread damage. Rhydon's extremely powerful STAB QuakeSlide combo translates very well into VGC as long as it steers clear of Water and Grass attacks (or Double Iron Bash), and it also helps greatly in taking on the extremely annoying Electric-types. Nidoking does the same with less physical stats and without STAB Rock Slide, which is admittedly a big drawback, but its better Speed and typing that lets it survive a Double Iron Bash and fare better against Mega Gengar can prove useful.

:ss/jolteon::ss/electrode:
Jolteon provides a great blend of power, speed, and utility that is extremely rare in LGPE. Its main utility comes from its access to some of the fastest Dual Screens in the game, allowing it to provide excellent, reliable support, and typically runs the combination alongside the mandatory Thunderbolt and Protect. One or both of these screens can be replaced with other options such as Helping Hand, Shadow Ball, Yawn, Thunder Wave, and even Growl, but these often feel hard to justify over the immense value of screens. Electrode is basically the same Pokemon but with better Speed and Defense, as well as different support options like Taunt, at the cost of Special bulk, Yawn, Helping Hand, and most importantly, offensive presence.

:ss/mew:
Of course Mew is amazing. Between its great bulk and good defensive typing, decent damage output with Psychic, great utility in Will-O-Wisp and U-Turn, and reliable recovery in Roost, it makes for a powerful win condition and pivoting tool. Not really too much else to say, other than that it can also run a devastating Calm Mind set that demands immediate respect.

Of course, this is all very early analysis and things may go in/out of favour as more is learnt about the metagame. There's plenty of mons with potential niches and moveset variations to be explored, and a near-endless supply of potential synergies! Don't be afraid to stray from what's proven.


Early "Resources":
We haven't got actual resources yet so I hope these suffice!

These replays are of the battles we used to test the meta out. Massive shoutouts to Ausma for insisting we tried the tier out, most of these replays include her :) neither of us are really DOU players but it was still a lot of fun!
Each Pokemon is a link
:gengar-mega::aerodactyl::persian-alola::blastoise::nidoking::venusaur-mega::jolteon::zapdos::rhydon::pikachu-starter::mew:

Here are the teams I used in these replays as early samples:
:mew::gengar-mega::melmetal::eevee-starter::jolteon::aerodactyl-mega:
:blastoise-mega::venusaur-mega::melmetal::eevee-starter::zapdos::rhydon:

Oh, here's a compendium I spent several hours on.

This format is unplayable on the main server due to a lack of LGPE Doubles formats, but it can be played on Dawn. If you'd like to try out the format, join the LGPE Discord! We have a matchmaking channel and may also hold some roomtours occasionally, and if there's actual interest I may even make a small proper tournament. I'm also happy to answer any questions about the format there or in this thread, or recieve input from anyone who may have happened to play this format in the past.
 
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Hello I'm bored so I wanna talk about candy metagames for a bit

In this post I'm gonna talk about AG, where level 100 mons, Mewtwo, Sappy Seed, and candies are allowed.
If I were to guess what the 5 best mons were, they'd be Mewtwo, Eevee, Aerodactyl, Alolan Muk, and Mew.

Mewtwo is, to no one's surprise, the best Pokemon. First of all, it has 2 mega evolutions, making it hard to predict which set it runs.
- As Mewtwo Y, it can set up Calm Mind and sweep, it can taunt, recover, and sweep. It would likely run Psychic for STAB and/or Shadow Ball to deal with other Mewtwos (along with Mega Alakazam), but it can probably run other coverage moves (Fire Blast/Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Ice Beam).
- As Mewtwo X, it can set up Bulk Up or Agility if it desires, or even run a mixed set with Psychic and Shadow Ball. It would probably run Brick Break for STAB, Rock Slide to deal with Aerodactyl and Venomoth, and Earthquake to deal with Alolan Muk. It can also run Facade in case it gets statused by Toxic or Will-O-Wisp users or ParaFlinch Melmetal. Like Mewtwo Y, it has plenty of physical coverage, as it can run the elemental punches or Poison Jab if it so desires.

Eevee is the second best mainly because it can set up Leech Seed and cure its team's status, which is great in combination with Rest, and is also amazing against Melmetal. It's a pretty straightforward mon, running the infamous Sizzly/Sappy/Sparkly/Sub set (or whatever it's called). However, it has an option to run Freezy Frost which gets rid of stat boosts, or Glitzy Glow and Baddy Bad to set up dual screens.

Aerodactyl, when it mega evolves, has the fastest Taunt in the metagame, tied with Mega Alakazam and Electrode. This allows it to stop setup sweepers like Mewtwo, Dodrio, and Venomoth in their tracks, the former of which it can deal supereffective damage against with Crunch, and the latter two with Rock Slide (although they don't do much damage because, well, you know.) What puts it over the other speedsters is that it also gets Stealth Rock, giving it by far the fastest Stealth Rock in the game, with second place being Dugtrio. The dinosaur also gets access to Roar and Roost, allowing it to phase opponents that may have already set up and/or heal damage it takes.

Alolan Muk solidifies itself as a bulky mon with a really good defensive typing, immunity to Toxic, and an immunity to Psychic. It also has access to Taunt or Haze to stop setup sweepers. Other than that, it doesn't have a huge movepool, but its defensive typing pretty much solidifies itself as a threat to a lot of mons.

Mew has an edge over Mewtwo in terms of pure versatility; it learns every TM, making it the most versatile mon in the game in terms of status. Offensively it is outclassed by Mewtwo, but it gets plenty of support, from being able to set up Stealth Rock, to being able to pivot with U-turn, to phasing with Dragon Tail, to being able to use Taunt, and can even status the foe.

After those five, there's plenty more good mons! Here's a list of some of them and why:

Venomoth is one of two mons that get access to Quiver Dance, the other being Butterfree which it completely outclasses; the only thing Butterfree gets that Venomoth doesn't is Whirlwind. Venomoth also has access to Roost, allowing it to heal damage and continue setting up, along with Substitute, which stops it from being taunted until it breaks, and Sleep Powder which puts the target to sleep (no sleep clause). It's a very straightforward mon: set up quiver dance, if at low health roost, and once at +6 start Bug Buzzing away.

Alakazam is a mon very similar to Mewtwo Y, but faster. It sets up Calm Mind, has the option to Taunt to stop opposing Mewtwo Y from setting up, and uses special moves; Psychic for STAB, Shadow Ball and Dazzling Gleam for coverage.

Rhydon is a very neat mon: it sets up Stealth Rock and can phase with Dragon Tail. What sets it apart from Aerodactyl and Mew, however, is its access to Horn Drill, which forces foes to not make risky switches against it, like switching out into Mewtwo or Eevee. Other than that, not much to write home about, and is pretty straightforward.

Venusaur gets the rare move Leech Seed, which few mons get access to. Along with this, it has access to a mega evolution and can't be poisoned by Toxic. It also gets Sleep Powder which puts foes to sleep with no sleep clause in effect. Plus it has a nice speed tier that allows it to outspeed Starter Eevee and potentially put it to sleep. All of this plus its passable defensive typing makes it a nice mon to have.

Melmetal is very predictable but that doesn't mean it's not good. Its main niche is ParaFlinch, getting access to Thunder Wave and Double Iron Bash, along with Rock Slide. Pretty self-explanatory, viable, and annoying.

Gyarados is another viable Dark type, and gets access to Taunt and Dragon Tail. It gets access to Waterfall for STAB and Earthquake for Alolan Muk.

Zapdos has a very nice defensive typing, but that's not all it has. It has access to recovery in Roost, and can pivot using U-turn. It also has access to Thunderbolt, Drill Peck, and of course Toxic. It can even set up Reflect and Light Screen, if you're into that!

Dodrio is one of the few mons that have access to Swords Dance, and its 110 speed allows it to set up easily, and taunt slower threats like Venomoth. It also gets access to Jump Kick, which is nice coverage against Starter Eevee.

Nidoking and Nidoqueen are very similar: both have Stealth Rock and can't be poisoned. Both have access to Taunt. They're also pretty different: Nidoking likes to run an offensive set with Earthquake and Horn Drill, while Nidoqueen likes to run a defensive set with Super Fang and Toxic.

Alolan Raticate counters any Alakazam that doesn't run Dazzling Gleam. It allows for a practically free switch, which allows it to set up a Swords Dance. It also has a REALLY nice movepool outside of Swords Dance, learning Sucker Punch, U-turn, Facade, Taunt, and Super Fang. This, honestly, is one of my favorite mons in the meta.

That's all I feel like writing about for now. I might add more in the future, but only time will tell. I might also make another post for Candy OU if I feel like it, or even edit this post to include a section for Candy OU.
 
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lmao at ohko moves.
ohko + setup move users such as amnesia kingler and bulk up pinsir might be promising as the ohko move makes them much less vulnerable to taunt which generally is their biggest issue.

(m-)gengar obv becomes far more valuable with taunt + immunity to all ohko moves other than dugtrio's fissure, but as always it doesnt have recovery (rly it has no room to run rest anyway).

honestly ohko moves seem kind of interesting in candy as a sort of balance to all the taunt users, and as eve said to make substitute a more viable alternative to taunt, but in practice having games be so dependent on whether 30% accuracy moves hit sounds (...)
 
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Eve

skit skit :3
is a Site Content Manageris a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogonis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
Mewtwo_MegaY.gif
Ubers
Mewtwo_MegaX.gif

Do you enjoy playing around centralizing, versatile, and overwhelming threats that can't really be stopped? Then this is the format for you!
Mewtwo is unbelievably broken, just like in Gen 1 (in fact, possibly moreso with its two totally necessary upgrades). Trying to handle as many variants as possible is often key to effective teambuilding, as is running anti-anti-Mewtwo Pokemon in order to help your own win and facilitating your wallbreaker (which is usually- you guessed it- Mewtwo) with ridiculous amounts of momentum.

What are the Ubers like?
Let's take a look all four current Ubers, from most ridiculously broken to least. A lot of what's written here is unfortunately based more in theory than practice, but the games I've played have massively influenced said theory- I've rewritten this post about 4 times. It was actually supposed to be done several months ago. Oops!

:ss/mewtwo-mega-y:
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Level: 50
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Shadow Ball
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Thunderbolt / Taunt
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Level: 50
Timid Nature
- Psychic
- Earthquake
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
Mega Mewtwo Y is an unparalleled nuke, capable of 2HKOing or OHKOing all but two Pokemon with just 3 different moves. Anything not called Chansey that isn't resistant or immune to Psychic cannot hope to be a defensive response to any variant, as any MMY that isn't some crazy lure set will have that move. Alolan Muk seems like a good option; that is, until you realise MMY has a massive 150 base Attack and Earthquake. The aforementioned Chansey is, of course, also completely annihilated by this. Melmetal avoids a 2HKO from most of MMY's options, including Earthquake, and can OHKO with a Double Iron Bash that very few switchins appreciate in return; however, it is roasted by Fire Blast or Flamethrower. Mew can take hits from variants lacking Shadow Ball and return fire with a Foul Play while keeping itself healthy with Roost, making it possibly the single best response. Mega Gyarados gets battered by Thunderbolt, but otherwise does decently and puts pressure on the opponent- however, running a Mega other than Mewtwo can be a detriment to your own team, especially when it loses to the other Mega Mewtwo (we'll get to them later). The same issues apply to MMY's best offensive answer, Mega Beedrill. Electrode can act as a solid safety net, capable of ruining MMY with Thunder Wave, dealing significant damage with Foul Play, or helping fend off its hits with Light Screen and Reflect, but it is obviously not ever a switchin and is quite easy to invalidate due to its horrendously lacking offensive presence. Sucker Punch isn't a good option either as MMY isn't exactly frail; the strongest user in Mega Kangaskhan barely does 60% at maximum with it, takes up your Mega slot, and is quite underwhelming for a Mega Evolution outside of this case. The second strongest Sucker Punch user is Alolan Raticate, which... is just an awful Pokemon and barely does half anyway. In reality, even if you have Pokemon that aim to check MMY on your team, you will still often be sacrificing other teammates just to get those checks in safely, as the alternative may include getting predicted on the switchin and losing the battle immediately. Statusing MMY like in RBY or setting up defensive boosts may seem like a good option, but Taunt exists these days and MMY makes good use of it for this reason. In conclusion, you should never let Mega Mewtwo Y hit the field for free without having Light Screen up, as it will get a KO if it does. Be especially wary of users of U-turn and Teleport, such as Mew, Zapdos, and Slowbro, giving it safe switches.

:ss/mewtwo-mega-x:
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
Level: 50
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Taunt
- Recover
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
Level: 50
Bold / Jolly Nature
- Brick Break / Ice Punch / Fire Punch
- Bulk Up
- Amnesia
- Rest
Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
Level: 50
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
- Barrier
- Rest
Mega Mewtwo X may lack as powerful of a STAB option as its Y alternative (WHY DOESN'T IT GET SUPERPOWER OR LOW KICK), but its superior bulk and strong defensive typing that leaves it with practically no physical weaknesses makes it much better suited to bulky setup roles. Any of its main sets can quickly become extremely difficult to handle without deliberate counter-prep, especially given free turns generated by the opponent expecting MMY. Oddly enough, its best set seems to be Calm Mind + Taunt despite its clearly pathetic Special Attack stat of 154. This is because of its aforementioned physical tanking prowess, which makes Special Defense a far more valuable stat to boost in order to blank its biggest threats. Bulk Up sets make use of Amnesia to patch this defensive hole, but this vitally comes at the cost of Taunt, forcing MMX to resort to Rest as recovery to avoid being irrevocably ruined by any status user; this leaves it vulnerable to Foul Play users like Mew, Electrode, and Slowbro unless running a Bold Nature, as they can 3HKO it otherwise. It also makes it possible for the likes of Taunt Mew, Haze Tentacruel, and Encore Clefable to stop MMX dead in its tracks. All of these options, with the exception of Thunder Wave Electrode, are dominated by CM + Taunt. This denial of the most common MMX counterplay options is what makes CM + Taunt possibly the most threatening set. It can struggle with having sweeps thwarted by faster status users, or those that spread status via attacking moves, such as Starter Eevee and Snorlax / Clefable running Body Slam, but none of these have recovery and MMX is not required to set up immediately; in fact, as the only Pokemon in the entire game with reliable recovery alongside a Stealth Rock resistance, it is possibly the least commital midgame Pokemon available. Phasing MMX out with Dragon Tail from the likes of Mew and Mega Gyarados may only serve to delay the inevitable, as it can't be forced out once its teammates have fainted, but it can help in dealing with it in a pinch. Mega Gyarados can handily beat CM + Taunt variants as long as it gets Defense drops with Crunch, but it is more risky versus Bulk Up variants, especially those using Brick Break. Mega Gengar stonewalls Brick Break variants and deals heavy damage in return, but it doesn't enjoy taking any other attack MMX may send its way. Possibly the best answer to any MMX is Taunt MMY, which can take any +1 hit decently well and threaten it with Shadow Ball or Psychic in return. Overall, while not as immediately terrifying or uncounterable as MMY, MMX is an absolute terror.

:ss/mewtwo:
Mewtwo is still worth running when you want to use another Mega Evolution like Gyarados or Gengar. Why wouldn't you want to run the single most threatening non-Mega by miles, especially when it also has bulk rivaling Mew? If you're wondering where the sample sets are, just go look in the Mega Mewtwo Y section- they are very good on regular Mewtwo, and if your Mega Evolution has a poor matchup you can just Mega Evolve Mewtwo instead and probably still win.

:ss/gengar-mega:
Gengar-Mega @ Gengarite
Level: 50
Timid / Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shadow Ball
- Sludge Bomb
- Thunderbolt
- Will-O-Wisp / Substitute
Mega Gengar isn't quite a Mega Mewtwo, but it's still very powerful. being paired with Mewtwo works really well for it, as one of the two can often clear the way for the other pretty easily and both are viable breakers without Mega Evolution. Just like in OU, Mega Gengar can modify its last slot to cover any issues it might face: Will-O-Wisp means opposing Mega Gyarados can now lose to your Mewtwo and neuters Foul Play users, Substitute protects it from opponents sacrificing to then revenge kill with MMY, and even niche options have value, such as Toxic which lets Mega Gengar put a heavily boosted CM + Taunt MMX on a timer. All this paired with its ability to effortlessly counter Brick Break MMX makes Mega Gengar a solid choice.

So what else is good?
Viability Rankings aren't really possible at the moment, but here's a prospective viability list I've thrown together with the obvious best mons distinguished. Pokemon are ordered alphabetically within sections, with a line describing what they (might) do. Feel free to suggest additions or make VR proposals!
Tier-Defining
:mewtwo-mega-x: Mega Mewtwo X
:mewtwo-mega-y: Mega Mewtwo Y

Amazing
:gengar-mega: Mega Gengar
:melmetal: Melmetal- Tanks non-Fire MMY well, 1v1s most physical attackers, does loads of damage as per usual.
:mew: Mew- Amazing midground check to most Mewtwo and various other physical attackers thanks to Foul Play, most teams' Stealth Rock user.
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:zapdos: Zapdos- Zapdos can U-turn into MMY as any answer other than Alolan Dugtrio switches in, completely destroying something every time.

Almost Certainly Viable
:dragonite: Dragonite- Agility sweeps become even easier to facilitate with breakers like MMY and Mega Gengar as teammates.
:dugtrio-alola: Alolan Dugtrio- Zapdos answer that can land a hit before it U-turns out, make use of Substitute to avoid revenge killing, and hit MMY hard with Sucker Punch.
:eevee-starter: Starter Eevee- Mewtwo dislikes status, Eevee is the only cleric, simple as.
:electrode: Electrode- Outspeeds any Mewtwo without costing a Mega slot and can threaten paralysis or set up screens.
:gyarados-mega: Mega Gyarados- Can beat most variants of MMY and MMX quite handily while being really hard to switch into.
:muk-alola: Alolan Muk- Where Mega Gengar thrives, Alolan Muk survives. Also checks the rare EQless MMY and annoys Mew.
:nidoqueen: Nidoqueen- Invalidates Electrode, is a fairly reliable Rocker, has same old great qualities despite being kinda MMY bait.
:snorlax: Snorlax- solid special tank, can especially annoy CM Taunt MMX with Body Slam.

Probably Viable
:aerodactyl-mega: Mega Aerodactyl- costs highly contested Mega slot but is still a fearsome cleaner, especially with Mewtwo breaking support. Can also set Stealth Rock.
:beedrill-mega: Mega Beedrill- Outspeeds and OHKOes MMY, which nothing else does! Can also bring Mewtwo in on its checks with U-turn for a fun time.
:clefable: Clefable- Stealth Rock option that can cause MMX a lot of annoyance with Body Slam and/or Encore depending on set.
:persian-alola: Alolan Persian- Fast and strong Foul Play for all the Psychic-types, another pivot to potentially get MMY a safe switchin.
:slowbro: Slowbro- Foul Play, Screens, TWave and Teleport are all amazing tools and Slowbro has a great typing on top of that.

Maybe Viable
:alakazam-mega: Mega Alakazam- Encore Mega Alakazam can be a nuisance for setup or Psychic-locked Mewtwo, otherwise generally outclassed by MMY.
:chansey: Chansey- useful against Mega Gengar, may be able to annoy CM+Rest MMX, helps vs mono special MMY if that ever exists.
:charizard-mega-x: Mega Charizard X- 4x resistance to Fire moves + Dragon Tail = potential MMX check.
:exeggutor-alola: Alolan Exeggutor- EQ is good so Alolan Exeggutor has value, also another Dragon Tail option.
:golem: Golem- the only defensive Ground-type that can always survive MMY's Psychic after Stealth Rock
:jolteon: Jolteon- More offensive alternative to Electrode so it isn't permawalled by Nidoqueen but is outsped by MMY.
:kingler: Kingler- Alternative Agility sweeper that annoys & checks Melmetal a bit more.
:nidoking: Nidoking- like Nidoqueen but slightly stronger, however lacks the options of Super Fang and Body Slam which are valuable.
:starmie: Starmie- similar traits to Slowbro but fast and frail, has potential.
:venomoth: Venomoth- Appreciates less Mega Aerodactyl and Mega Alakazam, as it can actually outspeed MMY at +1 unlike those two & gets countered less often by the former.
:venusaur-mega: Mega Venusaur- Sleep and Leech Seed are amazing and might be enough to let Mega Venusaur thrive in even these inhospitable conditions.

Overall, this meta is ridiculous but quite interesting in how warped it is. While LGPE Ubers doesn't have a ladder or challenge format and Nexus is no longer online, you can still easily challenge users on Pokemon Showdown with the following command:
/challenge USERNAME, gen7letsgoou @@@ +Mewtwo, +Gengar-Mega
As always, I'd recommend joining the LGPE Discord for discussion about this format! Alternatively you can, of course, post in this thread. Have a good day!
 
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ausma

which witch
is a Site Content Manageris an official Team Rateris a Social Media Contributoris an Artistis a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
OU Forum Leader
Hi, I'll dump some thoughts really quickly:

I personally feel as though Mega Mewtwo X is actually going to wind up being better than Mega Mewtwo Y, but not because of its setup variant. If anything, I feel that plays less into Mega Mewtwo X's offensive and tanking potential and relegates it more to a win condition, which it certainly can be, but is something that doesn't really let the long term potential of its typing shine.

Mega Mewtwo X has greater potential to viably make use of a mixed variant due to its access to a Fighting-type STAB to pressure Mega Gyarados, Chansey, and Snorlax. I find this to be hugely prominent as I can see such special walls being a vital means of checking Mega Mewtwo Y and Mega Gengar's raw damage output. Especially since Mega Mewtwo Y doesn't have any special Fighting-type STAB to work with, it will either be reliant on a key coverage option or Toxic to not fold to them. Its Special Attack stat is still very impressive, meaning that it can still capitalize on its STAB Psychic to pierce holes into teams while still taking advantage of its nuclear Brick Break.

The other big reason I see Mega Mewtwo X as a more powerful threat is because of Mega Mewtwo X's defensive typing and physical bulk. I think this is prominent, as it as a Psychic-type not losing and even reliably beating Dark-types due to its neutrality means it can likely facilitate and even be a key proponent toward shutting down most of Mega Mewtwo Y's counterplay. Its physical bulk and typing also lets it take on opposing Foul Play better, as well as check burned Melmetal, Mega Aerodactyl, Nidoqueen, Dugtrio, Mega Beedrill, and Dragonite far more reliably than Mega Mewtwo Y.

The primary disadvantage that I see Mega Mewtwo X having over Y is that it can be well checked by opposing Psychic-types without Shadow Ball, which hits considerably harder from Mega Mewtwo Y, and its special bulk in comparison, as well as a Psychic-type neutrality, can serve to be troublesome against opposing Mewtwo. However, its Shadow Balls still sting, and it has a lot of utility that it can provide teams that make it a better long term option than its other counterpart.

Mewtwo-Mega-X @ Mewtwonite X
Naive Nature
- Psychic
- Brick Break
- Shadow Ball / Toxic / Thunder Wave / Will-O-Wisp / Taunt
- Recover

I feel as though Mega Mewtwo X would run a set like this. I feel for certain Psychic / Brick Break / Recover would be non-negotiable, but that last slot has quite a bit of room to work with, letting it dish out utility and directly take advantage of its bulk to enforce progress, or just attack to cover its offensive typing's one blind spot.
 
i generally agree with ausma’s post except that i think earthquake is a far better choice of physical attack than brick break, at least alongside psychic. eq’s base power is only a bit lower, and still usually 2hkos snorlax and ofc ohkos chansey. since mmx resists rocks and doesnt take ~that much from mgyara’s crunch anyway i think 3hkoing is fine, mgyara rly isnt a threat for it.
eq importantly allows u to 2hko mmy, and generally has far better neutral coverage alongside psychic.

mmx definitely has more versatility in its damaging moves but i would not run a set that is completely walled by mmy, as the “mirror” is already the biggest advantage of using mewtwo y.
if u rly want to use brick break, could pair it with ice punch which at least does enough damage to mmy to deter it switching in directly while covering other resists decently

and agree with eve that taunt is reallyyy good on mmx
 
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:aerodactyl-mega: Hi, I'm bored and I want to do some personal VR for each type on LGPE Monotype :gengar-mega:
Reminder: This is all based on how good they look on paper in my opinion, I didn't test most of these pokemon enough to do a perfectly accurate ranking so take this with a grain of salt.

S Rank
:beedrill-mega: Beedrill-Mega

A Rank
:venomoth: Venomoth
:pinsir-mega: Pinsir-Mega

B Rank

B+

:pinsir: Pinsir

B-

:scyther: Scyther
:parasect:Parasect

C Rank

C+

:butterfree: Butterfree

C-

:beedrill: Beedrill
S Rank

:muk-alola: Muk-Alola

A Rank

A+

:persian-alola: Persian-Alola

A-

:raticate-alola: Raticate-Alola

C Rank

C+

:rattata-alola: Rattata-Alola

C

:grimer-alola: Grimer-Alola

C-

:meowth-alola: Meowth-Alola
S Rank

:zapdos: Zapdos

A Rank

:pikachu-starter: Pikachu-Starter
:raichu-alola: Raichu-Alola

A-

:golem-alola: Golem-Alola

B Rank

:electrode: Electrode
:magneton: Magneton

C Rank

:jolteon: Jolteon

D Rank

:electabuzz: Electabuzz

E Rank

:raichu: Raichu
S Rank

:clefable: Clefable
:ninetales-alola: Ninetales-Alola

A Rank

:mr-mime: Mr. Mime
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff

C Rank

:clefairy: Clefairy

D Rank

:jigglypuff: Jigglypuff
A Rank

A+

:poliwrath: Poliwrath

A-

:hitmonlee: Hitmonlee
:primeape: Primeape

B Rank

:machamp: Machamp
:hitmonchan: Hitmonchan

C Rank

:machoke: Machoke

D Rank

:mankey: Mankey
S Rank

:charizard-mega-x: Charizard-Mega X

A Rank

:marowak-alola: Marowak-Alola
:moltres: Moltres
:rapidash: Rapidash
:arcanine: Arcanine

B Rank

:ninetales: Ninetales
:magmar: Magmar
:charizard-mega-y: Charizard-Mega Y

C Rank

:flareon: Flareon
S Rank

S+

:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega

S-

:zapdos: Zapdos
:dragonite: Dragonite

A Rank

:gyarados: Gyarados
:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl

B Rank

:dodrio: Dodrio
:moltres: Moltres
:articuno: Articuno
:charizard-mega-y: Charizard-Mega Y

C Rank

C+

:golbat: Golbat
:pidgeot-mega: Pidgeot-Mega

C-

:fearow: Fearow

D Rank

:scyther: Scyther
:butterfree: Butterfree
:charizard: Charizard
S Rank

:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega

A Rank

:exeggutor-alola: Exeggutor-Alola

B Rank

B+

:exeggutor: Exeggutor
:victreebel: Victreebel

B-

:parasect: Parasect

C Rank

:tangela: Tangela
:vileplume: Vileplume
S Rank

:dugtrio-alola: Dugtrio-Alola

A Rank

:nidoqueen: Nidoqueen
:nidoking: Nidoking
:rhydon: Rhydon

B Rank

:golem: Golem
:sandslash: Sandslash

C Rank

:dugtrio: Dugtrio
:marowak: Marowak
:onix: Onix
S Rank

:sandslash-alola: Sandslash-Alola
:cloyster: Cloyster

A Rank

:lapras: Lapras
:jynx: Jynx
:ninetales-alola: Ninetales-Alola

B Rank

:articuno: Articuno

C Rank

:dewgong: Dewgong

D Rank

:sandshrew-alola: Sandshrew-Alola
S Rank

S+

:chansey: Chansey
:snorlax: Snorlax

S-

:eevee-starter: Eevee-Starter
:kangaskhan-mega: Kangaskhan-Mega

A Rank

:dodrio: Dodrio
:tauros: Tauros
:pidgeot-mega: Pidgeot-Mega

B Rank

:kangaskhan: Kangaskhan
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff
:raticate-alola: Raticate-Alola

C Rank

C+

:persian: Persian
:raticate: Raticate
:porygon: Porygon

C-

:lickitung: Lickitung
:fearow: Fearow
S Rank

S

:gengar-mega: Gengar-Mega

S-

:muk-alola: Muk-Alola
:gengar: Gengar

A Rank

:beedrill-mega: Beedrill-Mega
:nidoqueen: Nidoqueen
:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega

B Rank

:nidoking: Nidoking
:tentacruel: Tentacruel
:venusaur: Venusaur
:venomoth: Venomoth
:golbat: Golbat

C Rank

:arbok: Arbok
:victreebel: Victreebel
:haunter: Haunter
:weezing: Weezing
S Rank

:mew: Mew
:alakazam-mega: Alakazam-Mega

A Rank

:starmie: Starmie
:alakazam: Alakazam

B Rank

B+

:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega
:exeggutor: Exeggutor
:jynx: Jynx
:raichu-alola: Raichu-Alola

B-

:slowbro: Slowbro
:hypno: Hypno

C Rank

:mr-mime: Mr. Mime
:kadabra: Kadabra
S Rank

:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega

A Rank

:omastar: Omastar
:rhydon: Rhydon

B Rank

:kabutops: Kabutops
:golem-alola: Golem-Alola

C Rank

:onix: Onix
:golem: Golem
S Rank

:melmetal: Melmetal

A Rank

:dugtrio-alola: Dugtrio-Alola

B Rank

:sandslash-alola: Sandslash-Alola
:magneton: Magneton

D Rank

D+

:sandshrew-alola: Sandshrew-Alola
:diglett-alola: Diglett-Alola

D-

:meltan: Meltan
S Rank

:starmie: Starmie
:gyarados-mega: Gyarados-Mega

A Rank

:cloyster: Cloyster
:poliwrath: Poliwrath
:gyarados: Gyarados
:kabutops: Kabutops

B Rank

B+

:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega
:omastar: Omastar
:tentacruel: Tentacruel

B-

:blastoise-mega: Blastoise-Mega
:slowbro: Slowbro
:lapras: Lapras

C Rank

:kingler: Kingler
:golduck: Golduck
:vaporeon: Vaporeon

D Rank

:seaking: Seaking

For those who wonder why Ghost and Dragon are not mentioned here, its because there are not enough pokemon of these types to make a full team.
 
Last edited:
:aerodactyl-mega: Hi, I'm bored and I want to do some personal VR for each type on LGPE Monotype :gengar-mega:
Reminder: This is all based on how good they look on paper in my opinion, I didn't test most of these pokemon enough to do a perfectly accurate ranking so take this with a grain of salt.

S Rank
:beedrill-mega: Beedrill-Mega

A Rank
:venomoth: Venomoth
:pinsir-mega: Pinsir-Mega

B Rank

B+

:pinsir: Pinsir

B-

:scyther: Scyther
:parasect:Parasect

C Rank

C+

:butterfree: Butterfree

C-

:beedrill: Beedrill
S Rank

:gyarados-mega: Gyarados-Mega
:muk-alola: Muk-Alola

A Rank

A+

:persian-alola: Persian-Alola

A-

:raticate-alola: Raticate-Alola

C Rank

C+

:rattata-alola: Rattata-Alola

C

:grimer-alola: Grimer-Alola

C-

:meowth-alola: Meowth-Alola
S Rank

:zapdos: Zapdos

A Rank

:pikachu-starter: Pikachu-Starter
:raichu-alola: Raichu-Alola

A-

:golem-alola: Golem-Alola

B Rank

:electrode: Electrode
:magneton: Magneton

C Rank

:jolteon: Jolteon

D Rank

:electabuzz: Electabuzz

E Rank

:raichu: Raichu
S Rank

:clefable: Clefable
:ninetales-alola: Ninetales-Alola

A Rank

:mr-mime: Mr. Mime
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff

C Rank

:clefairy: Clefairy

D Rank

:jigglypuff: Jigglypuff
A Rank

A+

:poliwrath: Poliwrath

A-

:hitmonlee: Hitmonlee
:primeape: Primeape

B Rank

:machamp: Machamp
:hitmonchan: Hitmonchan

C Rank

:machoke: Machoke

D Rank

:mankey: Mankey
S Rank

:charizard-mega-x: Charizard-Mega X

A Rank

:marowak-alola: Marowak-Alola
:moltres: Moltres
:rapidash: Rapidash
:arcanine: Arcanine

B Rank

:ninetales: Ninetales
:magmar: Magmar
:charizard-mega-y: Charizard-Mega Y

C Rank

:flareon: Flareon
S Rank

S+

:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega

S-

:zapdos: Zapdos
:dragonite: Dragonite

A Rank

:gyarados: Gyarados
:aerodactyl: Aerodactyl

B Rank

:dodrio: Dodrio
:moltres: Moltres
:articuno: Articuno
:charizard-mega-y: Charizard-Mega Y

C Rank

C+

:golbat: Golbat
:pidgeot-mega: Pidgeot-Mega

C-

:fearow: Fearow

D Rank

:scyther: Scyther
:butterfree: Butterfree
:charizard: Charizard
S Rank

:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega

A Rank

:exeggutor-alola: Exeggutor-Alola

B Rank

B+

:exeggutor: Exeggutor
:victreebel: Victreebel

B-

:parasect: Parasect

C Rank

:tangela: Tangela
:vileplume: Vileplume
S Rank

:dugtrio-alola: Dugtrio-Alola

A Rank

:nidoqueen: Nidoqueen
:nidoking: Nidoking
:rhydon: Rhydon

B Rank

:golem: Golem
:sandslash: Sandslash

C Rank

:dugtrio: Dugtrio
:marowak: Marowak
:onix: Onix
S Rank

:sandslash-alola: Sandslash-Alola
:cloyster: Cloyster

A Rank

:lapras: Lapras
:jynx: Jynx
:ninetales-alola: Ninetales-Alola

B Rank

:articuno: Articuno

C Rank

:dewgong: Dewgong

D Rank

:sandshrew-alola: Sandshrew-Alola
S Rank

S+

:chansey: Chansey
:snorlax: Snorlax

S-

:eevee-starter: Eevee-Starter
:kangaskhan-mega: Kangaskhan-Mega

A Rank

:dodrio: Dodrio
:tauros: Tauros
:pidgeot-mega: Pidgeot-Mega

B Rank

:kangaskhan: Kangaskhan
:wigglytuff: Wigglytuff
:raticate-alola: Raticate-Alola

C Rank

C+

:persian: Persian
:raticate: Raticate
:porygon: Porygon

C-

:lickitung: Lickitung
:fearow: Fearow
S Rank

S

:gengar-mega: Gengar-Mega

S-

:muk-alola: Muk-Alola
:gengar: Gengar

A Rank

:beedrill-mega: Beedrill-Mega
:nidoqueen: Nidoqueen
:venusaur-mega: Venusaur-Mega

B Rank

:nidoking: Nidoking
:tentacruel: Tentacruel
:venusaur: Venusaur
:venomoth: Venomoth
:golbat: Golbat

C Rank

:arbok: Arbok
:victreebel: Victreebel
:haunter: Haunter
:weezing: Weezing
S Rank

:mew: Mew
:alakazam-mega: Alakazam-Mega

A Rank

:starmie: Starmie
:alakazam: Alakazam

B Rank

B+

:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega
:exeggutor: Exeggutor
:jynx: Jynx
:raichu-alola: Raichu-Alola

B-

:slowbro: Slowbro
:hypno: Hypno

C Rank

:mr-mime: Mr. Mime
:kadabra: Kadabra
S Rank

:aerodactyl-mega: Aerodactyl-Mega

A Rank

:omastar: Omastar
:rhydon: Rhydon

B Rank

:kabutops: Kabutops
:golem-alola: Golem-Alola

C Rank

:onix: Onix
:golem: Golem
S Rank

:melmetal: Melmetal

A Rank

:dugtrio-alola: Dugtrio-Alola

B Rank

:sandslash-alola: Sandslash-Alola
:magneton: Magneton

D Rank

D+

:sandshrew-alola: Sandshrew-Alola
:diglett-alola: Diglett-Alola

D-

:meltan: Meltan
S Rank

:starmie: Starmie
:gyarados-mega: Gyarados-Mega

A Rank

:cloyster: Cloyster
:poliwrath: Poliwrath
:gyarados: Gyarados
:kabutops: Kabutops

B Rank

B+

:slowbro-mega: Slowbro-Mega
:omastar: Omastar
:tentacruel: Tentacruel

B-

:blastoise-mega: Blastoise-Mega
:slowbro: Slowbro
:lapras: Lapras

C Rank

:kingler: Kingler
:golduck: Golduck
:vaporeon: Vaporeon

D Rank

:seaking: Seaking
As sad as it is considering how little Dark has to play with, Mega Gyarados would be illegal on Dark teams due to not being Dark pre-mega. Dark just has to get by using 3 NFEs and their evolutions, lol.
 
ty lpz for ur post ~ and i love that some ppl want to talk about monotype lol

a few notes/comments ~ (only about the primary/most relevant types, i havent built at all with any of the less viable types except i made one steel team. and i have a computer again now, also im not rly going to comment abt differentiating mega vs base form ranks.)


mr. mime is far too low. fairy is an excellent typing in this metagame, where steels are almost nonexistent, in particular fairies check a major threat on what is arguably the strongest type, dragonite on flying. mime's dark and bug neutralities essentially make up for its bad terrible bulk, and also lets it check a boosted butterfree/venomoth with its good special bulk, threats which otherwise sweep psychic if set up (esp butterfree), and also switch into electrode's foul play (lol).
outside of those specific roles, it is j a solid pokemon, its dual stabs have perfect neutral coverage except against steels ie in almost all relevant matchups, its a decent paralysis spreader, and also has access to thunderbolt for the water matchup if eg raichu-a is not used. alternatively mime has the option to run a monoattacking cm / barrier / rest set, particularly with screen(s) support which is common on psychic anyway to help it initially, and which if it sets up can often be hard to break through due to that poison, ghost and steel stab moves are all rare outside of poison teams.

id consider 'raising' exeggutor to A rank, its typing, excellent all around stats, and utility movepool are valuable in basically every matchup. with steels not relevant in the tier its dual stab has good neutral coverage, it is generally slow but it does importantly outspeed muk-a and can set a screen or use sleep powder. it also has access to power whip as 'tech' for the normal mu, which ohkos chansey and 3hkos lax, and has similar 'overall' damage output to mega drain at the cost of recovery and accuracy. (psychic's only other physical option for normal outside of mew is brick break raichu, tho raichu is ohko'ed by lax's earthquake and tends to already have other responsibilities vs normal as a switch-in to buzzy buzz and/or a check to dodrio)

theres no reason for psychic to ever run either hypno or kadabra. not rly sure what hypno mention is for but at kadabra, that speed tier rly isnt particularly valuable in the tier so jynx entirely outclasses it (and rly mr. mime does too).


i think gyarados def belongs in S-, it is greatly effective in every matchup (other than maybe the mirror and electric), eg special bulk and crunch spam vs psychic, is generally the win-con vs rock with waterfall + earthquake (and also a neutrality to oma's ice beam) tho rock is still a bad matchup, and prob most importantly is flying's only check to +2 cloyster (twave, or possibly dtail). obv its not a sweeper like aero/dnite or have zap's recovery, but it is just as central to the type.

if you are willing to 'jump' ranks in order to indicate a gap, id prob jump all the way to C between these four and (whatever is ranked next).
i think (m-)charizard is too high, i view both (m-)pidgeot and moltres to be preferable. vs steel, m-pidgeot's speed tier lets it outrun dugtrio, and still ohkos all of steel except melm even without stab on heat wave, while zard-y is outsped and 50% to be ohko'ed by dug's rock slide which flying has no switch-ins to. moltres's speed tier is basically just as good as zard's (lol diglett), but it can potentially set agility and it is never ohko'ed by dug's rock slide. vs ice, zard-y is def better than the other two, but pidg still has a potential ohko after rocks on all of ice except lapras, and moltres rly shouldnt have any difficulty beating ice tho being slower than jynx is obv a downside.
outside of ice and steel, it is clearly the worst of the three, moltres has some potential as an agility cleaner in other matchups that at minimum pressures teams to preserve certain things to check it, and with roost + choice of status, and base pidgeot has u-turn without a 4x rocks weakness and has the speed to eg get a toxic on zapdos in the mirror.
the only way i could rly see zard getting a slot is if it were to also be the primary mega in the water matchup, since unlike aero it doesnt allow cloyster setup. earthquake (or dragon pulse) does 2hko kabutops, so it cant switch in directly and set rocks, and fire blast 2hkos lapras. this might be enough for zap to sweep. but kabutops can ofc set rocks after any ko from zard, and then i think it is j going to leave flying with significant issues with starmie which should beat zard with twave + recover and at minimum brings zap into lapras's ice shard range once rocks are up. idk itd have to be tested.

idk what fearow is ranked for but flying doesnt need more ground coverage, there is no reason to use it. butterfree is def a solid option for the psychic mu as it can set up on 'many' mew, survives m-zam's psychic at +1, and even if starmie gets in and wins the speed tie and paralyzes it that removes starmie (unless full para) which helps esp aero and dnite. outside of the psychic mu, it can be a sleep powder + u turn lead.

chansey is def not S+, its prob not even mandatory tho i wouldnt rly ever drop it. it provides excellent support vs psychic, while it can survive 1 attack to set rocks against most other types where it isnt rly needed as a tank. this is ~ nice role compression ~ but its not S rank, and if u want to use wigglytuff anyway (as a dnite check), it can 'similarly' usually take a hit and set rocks while still being able to come in and eg paralyze a boosted dnite if it ever locks into outrage so lets u drop chansey if desired.

i think mkang could be argued to S+, priority is excellent in monotype eg ice punch + sucker kos m-aero after rocks and aero rly doesnt have room to run roost on either type. but eevee-s is excellent too i think its ok if they are tiered together.

m-pidgeot seems rly high, i didnt even see it as viable at all until neet used it the other day, maybe its okay but mkang is so good and unless u think u need it for ice and/or steel mus (?) pidg seems very niche, like in the bottom of B or the top of C as st that really shouldnt be considered on the vast majority of normal teams.

(mostly looks good)
~ weezing is definitely too low, poison struggles vs phys attackers generally and obv m-aero in particular so weezing contributes consistently with bulk + wisp. eg flying teams tend to be lacking any burn absorber outside of zapdos which is a non-threat to poison; same with rock outside of omastar which is walled by tentacruel when burned; checking dodrio and tauros vs normal is greatly appreciated. thunderbolt is v good coverage in this tier and obv vs water, and explosion lacks resistances on many types. weezing's one matchup where it is very ineffective is the poison mirror, and its a little hard to fit so b rank is prob fine for it.

these are less important but some other lower rank changes
~ id put venomoth in C as it rly isnt needed to win the favorable psychic mu and actually can be setup bait for cm zam so it rly doesnt fit well into poison's strategy of getting kos with m-gar, bringing in a sacrifice and then forcing psychic to find a switchin to muk-a.; and veno is decently checked by most types despite steels being rare in the tier. if it runs psychic in the fourth slot it is a big threat in the poison mirror but running both nidos might be a better way to improve the mirror as nidok contributes much more than veno in other mus, such as flying. (nidoqueen often has to take major damage to get up rocks so running both is not redundant).
~ golbat to C also as while it is obv a check to m-beedrill which poison otherwise rly struggles with, but it doesnt rly help against most earthquake users in the tier, esp m-aero, and imo m-bee is rare anyway as poison is much more consistent running dual mega (so id prob also move m-beedrill down to B), and bug is rly not a good type tho it is usable. weezing is j mostly better and easier to fit on a team, it is more of a threat with wisp + tbolt + explosion; and golbat's recovery is rarely actually usable, and its access to u-turn is j not as important to a balanced type like poison as eg an HO type like flying.
~ idt theres any reason to rank arbok or haunter. arbok's frailty is a big problem, it cant actually paralyze threats to poison effectively as it is eg ohkoed by jolly m-aero's (or adamant m-kang's) earthquake. it can survive tauros's eq and click glare, thats about it lol. victreebel entirely outclasses it as a sucker punch user, its eq neutrality allows it to eg take on m-aero decently in flying mu, and its grass stab offensively threatens water and rock teams. it also fits easily onto poison teams, replacing venusaur at the cost of the flexibility of dual mega.
haunter rly doesnt help vs psychic and like venomoth can be zam bait, its tbolt doesnt improve the flying mu since using haunter only compounds poison's weakness to m-aero, the only mu haunter helps with at all is water but that is already a very favorable mu with gengar + venu + tenta. arbok at least has some theoretical place, haunter rly should not be a consideration for any poison team.

i think kabutops is too low / oma is too high on both rock and water, oma rly doesnt have a place on water as kabutops is the much better rocks setter (along with providing leech life + aqua jet), and water is never running both rock types. kabutops is the most consistent setter on rock as well, bc of its speed tier eg to outspeed neutral venu/gyara, and fills other vital roles like leech life to threaten starmie/egg.
(edited for clarity)
cloyster should be S on water. water is mediocre but cloy is a defining mon of the type, it is obv *the* wincon vs flying, often vs normal, sometimes even poison if it can get a setup turn eg vs nidoq as +2 headbutt 2hkos tentacruel with a flinch tho that matchup is generally unwinnable. cloy is mostly useless vs psychic but it is absolutely S rank. starmie honestly i think can drop to A, unlike on psychic where it fills the types needs perfectly on water it rly struggles with its moveset, it would like to support its slow team with paralysis but it doesnt do so very well, vs psychic it cant fit coverage for both exeggutor and raichu-a.
kingler and (m-)slowbro dont have any place on water, cloy outclasses both, and poliwrath is maybe too high as it is obv excellent in the normal mu but struggles otherwise and is a lil hard to fit on water teams. lapras is very consistently effective across matchups and rly hard to give up despite shared typing with cloy so can prob rise.
on rock, unfortunately onix cant outspeed neutral venu/gyara so i dont see what it rly has to offer over the graveler forms which have much better stats otherwise. onix does get dtail, but im not sure when that is relevant for rock esp when u can run twave graveler-a, and onix does have slightly more phys bulk but idt that matters either.

edit:
i rly havent built with electric at all but i think raichu-a is too high and both electrode and jolteon are too low.

~ electrode is rly mandatory for electric, the flying and rock matchups are basically autolose otherwise, with electrode the flying mu should be a 50/50 and the rock matchup is still rly difficult but if you are able to get rocks up quickly enough (eg, golem-a in front of rhydon which it outspeeds) u can maybe generate a win con by using electrode to force out ada aero a couple times to bring it into pika-s range. electrode is also rly valuable vs psychic with twave + foul play (note foul play always 2hkos raichu-a) and ofc zam speed tie. in other mus electrode always at least provides taunt for denying rocks and/or recovery.
to me electrode seems to fit well alongside pika-s in A, they dont rly have great stats but each provide specific roles that are mandatory to the type.

~ raichu-a certainly provides things that the rest of the type lacks eg being able to threaten nidos and m-venu with stab psychic. however the poison matchup is extremely difficult anyway, and in particular raichu-a is ohko'ed by muk-a's crunch which electric rly doesnt have good switch-ins to, and muk-a is almost as much of an obstacle for electric as nido(s) + venu.
also, in the event u face a poison team without venu and has gengar as its sole mega, where electric may have a real chance to win, jolteon prob actually does better than raichu-a bc of its speed tier and not being weak to shadow ball.
raichu-a does also get brick break for the normal mu, or maybe even dig vs poison, however pika-s can run brick break if desired (but normal matchup is very difficult regardless), and dig is v unreliable as muk-a often runs both toxic and acid armor either of which takes advantage of the first turn of dig.
(ground is not rly relevant in monotype but obv if u do face a ground team, raichu-a is still not at all going to make that mu winnable)
running raichu-a requires forgoing either magneton or jolteon and gaining a small chance to win the very difficult poison mu and maybe the normal mu, is imo not worth giving up either of those which offer more in any other mu and in particular both contribute significantly in the very winnable psychic mu, where raichu-a is basically useless.
id drop raichu-a down to C, i think it is not worth running most of the time and a step below both mag and jolt, but putting all three of them in B is prob ok too.

~ jolteon's speed and power is important to actually be able to sweep eg flying if electrode paralyzes m-aero and psychic if u can para
m-zam. its neutrality to zam's shadow ball and zapdos's u-turn in comparison to raichu-a is also very desirable in those mus.
jolt is useless vs poison, and vs normal unless/until chansey is removed. its still generally better than using a mediocre mixed or physical attacker like raichu-a or electabuzz that still prob cant win those matchups so i think B rank is a good place for it.
~ magneton also contributes a lot vs psychic due to its def typing, and also is very useful vs rock as anytime rhydon kos something mag can then pick up a ko in return, and assuming u can get rocks up either forces aero to come in and take rocks to revenge it, or forces golem-a to take a flash cannon which brings it into splishy splash range. so i agree with its current placement in B rank.

~ electabuzz can prob be in C, its ability to 2hko snorlax [and chansey] with low kick is st nothing else on electric can hope for, other than st weird like superpower golem-a which would be extremely vulnerable to mkang anyway. while electabuzz outspeeds and 3hkos mkang with low kick making it a reasonably spammable move. the 2hko on snorlax is v significant as buzz can come in after it rests and prevent it from waking up, ie forcing normal to switch something into its low kick (eevee-s is 3hkoed by whichever electric stab and doesnt rly threaten buzz anyway, it can wake snorlax up once with swirl but thats probably it.)
being slower than tauros is annoying and the normal mu is still very difficult but buzz prob offers the best chance.
outside of the normal mu, buzz provides a second taunt user, ice punch esp for unboosted dnite on flying making buzz 'similar' to jolteon in flying mu as a sweeping threat if u can paralyze m-aero, and ice also gets some damage on eg nidos, mvenu, egg-k.
so i think placing buzz in the same rank as raichu-a makes sense, the reason to run them is to provide some chance in each of electrics two worst matchups (raichu for mvenu poison, buzz for mkang normal) at the cost of decreased effectiveness in other matchups, esp vs psychic. if anything, buzz is maybe slightly better than raichu-a due to its ability to decently fill jolteon's role in the flying mu, but idt the difference is enough to separate them by a whole rank, and idk about putting buzz in the same rank with jolt and mag. idk, id ofc interested in others' thoughts esp about electabuzz.

(raichu-k has no place on electric, it is entirely outclassed by electabuzz)
 
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