Project LGPE Socratic Seminars

Yoshi

All my enemies started out friends
is a Pre-Contributor
Hello all! For those of you unaware of what a socratic seminar is, it's an age-old tradition where a proctor asks open-ended questions to a body of people for the purpose of generating quality discussion. We'd like to bring that same idea to our LGPE room on PS with our own take on the seminar.

How will this work?

A host will post in this thread when we are planning to hold a seminar and explain the open-ended topic. From there, the public will submit more specific ideas about the topic in this thread. The host will collect all of these ideas into a list and use them as a guide for the discussion. Posting your ideas in this thread is the only way to guarantee we will talk about it, but there is always room for additions during the discussion. Note, though, that if your idea isn't very coherent or relevant to the topic, the host holds the authority to exclude your idea from discussion.

Why are we doing this? Can't we just have discussion in the PS room normally?

We're slowly moving into an age where less and less people are interested in forum-based discussion. However, that does not mean that we should be moving away from structured discussion, but instead remodel it. With the change in mentality, we believe this is a great way to keep people involved in structured discussion that engages them with some of the tier's top players. Room events are also great ways of bringing the community together for something fun that everybody can learn from.

And for those curious, these events are considered pretty important community events and participating in them in a positive way does contribute to further promotions (room promotions especially, but it's great padding for a ladybug or community contributor badge as well.) [Note: the badge portion is up to discretion right now]

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Current Discussion
 

Yoshi

All my enemies started out friends
is a Pre-Contributor
I will be hosting a discussion next Sunday starting at 6pm EST about the Mew suspect test! Post some questions you think would be necessary to discuss here.
 

McGrrr

Facetious
is a Contributor Alumnus
Mew balances out the metagame. Banning it would give a buff to Melmetal, Mega Gyarados, and Alolan Muk, its main Will-O-Wisp priorities. It would also remove a switch in to half the metagame, most notably Zapdos' Thunderbolt and Double Iron Bash.

Melmetal and Mega Gyarados are not Pokemon that need a buff, and the already effective Zapdos + Gyarados combination looks to be even more threatening.

Perhaps the argument is that because Mew blunts all of these threats, it is therefore uber. I can maybe get behind that, but I can not visualise how the metagame would deal with these changes in a healthy way.

I think the most likely consequence of a Mew ban would be a Melmetal suspect, then subsequent suspects for all of the top Mega threats that Melmetal helps to check. This is a slippery slope.

How do you expect the metagame to adapt without Mew?
 
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Ezaphs

sub squad
is a Forum Moderator
Moderator
Mew balances out the metagame. Banning it would give a buff to Melmetal, Mega Gyarados, and Alolan Muk, its main Will-O-Wisp priorities. It would also remove a switch in to half the metagame, most notably Zapdos' Thunderbolt and Double Iron Bash.

Melmetal and Mega Gyarados are not Pokemon that need a buff, and the already effective Zapdos + Gyarados combination looks to be even more threatening.

Perhaps the argument is that because Mew blunts all of these threats, it is therefore uber. I can maybe get behind that, but I can not visualise how the metagame would healthily deal with these changes in a Mewless environment.

I think the most likely consequence of a Mew ban would be a Melmetal suspect, then subsequent suspects for all of the top Mega threats that Melmetal helps to check. This is a slippery slope.
This post is in entirely the wrong place, but also doesn't fit in the suspect thread due to discussing future suspects. If you can reword this into a question like was being requested then go ahead!

Edit: interesting question, looks like it might not end up mattering but we'll consider it
 

Yoshi

All my enemies started out friends
is a Pre-Contributor
Fun discussion today!
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Hosting a Socratic Seminar on the Mew suspect test, will start momentarily
[18:00:31] #Yoshizilla315: Okay hi everyone that showed up
[18:00:39] #Yoshizilla315: Welcome to the first ever LGPE socratic seminar!
[18:00:52] #Yoshizilla315: Today's topic is the Mew suspect test, and we'll be going through various user submitted (cough) questions.
[18:01:02] #Yoshizilla315: Please keep discussion civilized, and don't forget to have a little fun.
[18:01:12] #Yoshizilla315: Our first question of the evening (or morning, or afternoon), is this:
[18:01:31] #Yoshizilla315: For those of you who believe that Mew should not be banned, why do you feel that way?
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[18:02:04] #Yoshizilla315: CasedVictory you're strongly no-ban arent you
[18:02:58] #ezaphs: I've honestly changed my opinion on Mew during the suspect; I started being slightly leaning towards ban, but it doesn't take much for many teams to beat Mew in the current meta. Mega Beedrill and Mega Gengar are both large contributors to this in my view.
[18:03:13] #Yoshizilla315: Yeah I was definitely leaning towards ban before, but now I'm not so leaning towards ban
[18:03:18] #Yoshizilla315: I'll probably vote no ban if I get reqs
[18:03:30] #Funbot28: same i dont know if i wil have time ot get reqs but I agree that its not unhealthy fo rthe meta
[18:03:30] #Yoshizilla315: It's much easier to play around mew than I thought before, and I think a lot of the community agrees with that
[18:03:42] %CasedVictory: I'm pretty strongly no ban
[18:03:58] #Funbot28: i feel melmetal is more of a nuisance but ofc thats also not broken imo
[18:04:13] #ezaphs: Mew struggles with some of the faster, stronger things in the meta, as well as Snorlax and the move Toxic in general
[18:04:20] #ezaphs: all of which happen to be pretty good right now
[18:04:35] #Yoshizilla315: Melmetal
[18:04:37] #Funbot28: i have been toying around with coverage like ice beam and tbolt tho
[18:04:39] #Yoshizilla315: interesting
[18:04:39] #Funbot28: and they are nice
[18:04:41] #ezaphs: I have ran into Taunt sets which gave me more hassle than expected
[18:04:42] #Yoshizilla315: oh yeah
[18:04:43] #Yoshizilla315: I run
[18:04:48] %CasedVictory: Mew's best sets all of slightly crippling features about them
[18:04:49] #Yoshizilla315: Nasty Plot / Roost / Thunderbolt / Ice Beam
[18:04:49] #ezaphs: but they lose out on important slots
[18:04:54] %CasedVictory: Lack of coverage, momentum
[18:05:11] #ezaphs: nice representing there yoshi
[18:05:14] #ezaphs: :]
[18:05:19] #Yoshizilla315: oh is that your set
[18:05:26] #ezaphs: it was on dedenite
[18:05:33] #Yoshizilla315: ahh right
[18:05:34] #Yoshizilla315: of course
[18:05:36] #Yoshizilla315: I like that set al ot
[18:05:39] #Funbot28: i think mew rlly struggles iwth 4mss most of the time depending on the set
[18:05:41] #Yoshizilla315: Mew doesn't really need Psychic coverage on that set
[18:05:45] #ezaphs: I've been trying out psychic tbolt too
[18:05:50] #Yoshizilla315: BoltBeam covers the majority of the meta
Coverage for Psychic:
Super Effective: Fighting, Poison
Neutral: Bug, Dragon, Electric, Fairy, Fire, Flying, Ghost, Grass, Ground, Ice, Normal, Rock, Water
Resists: Psychic, Steel
Immunities: Dark
[18:05:54] #ezaphs: it has a bit more outright power which is nice
[18:05:57] #ezaphs: well a lot more
[18:05:58] #ezaphs: honestly
[18:06:00] #Yoshizilla315: As Psychic doesn't really hit anything super effectively
[18:06:02] #Yoshizilla315: that Thunderbolt doesnt
[18:06:03] #ezaphs: but loses out on a few SE hits
[18:06:10] #Yoshizilla315: (i.e. literally just Poliwrath)
[18:06:18] #Yoshizilla315: oh beedrill and gengar too
[18:06:18] #Yoshizilla315: nvm
[18:06:24] #Funbot28: ive been toying the BU sets too and thats always nice as a lure
[18:06:31] %CasedVictory: BU Facade Mew is cute
[18:06:46] #ezaphs: yeah, bulk up is one of the things that had me unsure at first
[18:06:52] #Yoshizilla315: I haven't actually used Bulk Up yet admittedly
[18:07:01] #ezaphs: seeing as it beats most of mew's conventional spdef answers
[18:07:05] #ezaphs: it can cause a headache
[18:07:08] #Funbot28: esp muk
[18:07:36] #Yoshizilla315: thatIvyGuy what's your overall s tance on Mew right now
[18:07:39] %CasedVictory: A reason I don't think is necessarily good for a suspect
[18:07:43] %CasedVictory: But is something I've considered
[18:07:45] #ezaphs: also toyed with sub bulk up, but the mono attack is hard to choose
[18:07:54] #Yoshizilla315: isn't it always Earthquake
[18:07:54] %CasedVictory: Is with Mew gone, I think the tier loses its' best pivot
[18:08:03] %CasedVictory: people run megahorn yoshi
[18:08:05] #ezaphs: mono eq is just ruined by all flying types
[18:08:06] %thatIvyGuy: Bulk up was my favorite mew to use. What a fun boy. But even he can be thwarted
[18:08:08] #Yoshizilla315: ah Megahorn
[18:08:11] #Yoshizilla315: that's an option too
[18:08:20] #ezaphs: I've mainly used rock slide with that set
[18:08:21] #ezaphs: iirc
[18:08:26] #Yoshizilla315: yeah but then you lose to Melmetal
[18:08:33] #Yoshizilla315: wait
[18:08:34] #ezaphs: true, you have to pick your poison
[18:08:37] #Yoshizilla315: maybe not
[18:08:39] #Yoshizilla315: because of Substitute
[18:08:51] #ezaphs: yeah you can outstall it probably
[18:08:55] #Yoshizilla315: You can play around Toxic and such but that seems kind of difficult in practice
[18:09:08] #Yoshizilla315: you need to get to the point where Iron Bash doesn't break Sub
[18:09:17] #ezaphs: as it stands though, Mew isn't ruining the tier imo
[18:09:24] %CasedVictory: I think Mew is vital to the tier
[18:09:29] #Yoshizilla315: I wouldn't say vital
[18:09:33] #Yoshizilla315: but its definitely not ruining the tier
[18:09:35] #Yoshizilla315: Melmetal is vital
[18:09:54] #Funbot28: ye melt is like the lando-t of tis tier
[18:09:55] #ezaphs: mew is replaceable, if you need a bulky psychic there are other options and if you need a nasty plotter the other ones wouldn't be as outclassed
[18:09:59] #Yoshizilla315: I'd compare Melmetal more to
[18:10:00] #Yoshizilla315: Snorlax
[18:10:04] #Yoshizilla315: since you absolutely need Melmetal on every team
[18:10:07] #Yoshizilla315: (GSC SNorlax of course)
[18:10:13] %CasedVictory: W/out Mew, I think people would generally struggle to switch into moves and the tier turns into a tier where games are 20 turns maximum
[18:10:30] #Yoshizilla315: lol
[18:10:30] #Yoshizilla315: DPP LC
[18:10:33] %CasedVictory: Yep
[18:10:34] #ezaphs: Melmetal is just a mon that reliably goes 1 for 1 at worst in almost every game
[18:10:45] #ezaphs: pretty much always worth it
[18:11:01] #Yoshizilla315: but can Melmetal Curse up
[18:11:02] #Yoshizilla315: I think not
[18:11:14] #ezaphs: also being the only great steel type is a crazy good selling point
[18:11:21] #Yoshizilla315: oh yeah tht's true
[18:11:26] #Yoshizilla315: someone has to make Magnemite popular
[18:11:32] #ezaphs: magnemite?
[18:11:32] #Yoshizilla315: Magneton*
[18:11:35] #ezaphs: okay
[18:11:50] #Yoshizilla315: is it just
[18:11:54] #Yoshizilla315: Magneton and Melmetal
[18:11:55] #Yoshizilla315: I think so
[18:12:01] #ezaphs: alolan sandslash, alolan duggy
[18:12:06] #Yoshizilla315: ohh right
[18:12:06] %CasedVictory: magneton's niche is teleport
[18:12:06] %CasedVictory: iirc
[18:12:09] #ezaphs: duggy's the next best thing
[18:12:10] #Yoshizilla315: Alolan Duggy is really good too
[18:12:12] #Yoshizilla315: but
[18:12:14] #ezaphs: and yeah magneton teleports
[18:12:15] #Yoshizilla315: that's hardly a steel type
[18:12:20] #Yoshizilla315: too frail, doesn't usually run Iron Head
[18:12:26] %CasedVictory: alolan dug is awesome
[18:12:30] %CasedVictory: takes a little too much
[18:12:30] #Yoshizilla315: in fact I think the steel-typing hinders duggy
[18:12:31] #ezaphs: magneton does respectable damage honestly
[18:12:32] %CasedVictory: from drill peck
[18:12:45] %CasedVictory: magneton sets up a screen
[18:12:46] #ezaphs: also don't forget iron head isn't a move
[18:12:46] %CasedVictory: stabs
[18:12:47] %CasedVictory: teleport
[18:12:49] #Yoshizilla315: -
[18:12:51] #Yoshizilla315: it's not?
[18:12:56] #ezaphs: it's not
[18:12:58] #Yoshizilla315: TIL
[18:13:08] #Funbot28: magneton as the zap counter in 2019
[18:13:09] #Funbot28: y/y
[18:13:18] #Yoshizilla315: doesn't Magneton either take a U-Turn or Toxic though
[18:13:20] #ezaphs: steel type is definitely good for alolan dug, it's the reason it isn't worse than regular
[18:13:21] #Yoshizilla315: wait
[18:13:22] #Yoshizilla315: Steel
[18:13:27] #Yoshizilla315: I keep thinking it's pure Electric
[18:13:29] #Yoshizilla315: because RBY
[18:13:44] #Yoshizilla315: idk Steel-type means
[18:13:48] #Yoshizilla315: it dies to Earthquake from Melmetal
[18:14:00] #ezaphs: it would die to attacks from melmetal either way
[18:14:02] #ezaphs: lol
[18:14:06] #Yoshizilla315: oh that's true lol
[18:14:27] #ezaphs: steel means a flying resist, normal resist, psychic resist, poison immune etc
[18:14:40] #Yoshizilla315: the only thing that matters there is the normal part
[18:14:40] #Yoshizilla315: lol
[18:14:45] #Yoshizilla315: Alakazam pribably OHKOs with Psychic
[18:14:48] #ezaphs: more resists is appreciated for a mon that can't take neutral hits
[18:14:53] #Yoshizilla315: and Mega Gengar OHKOs wtih SHadow Ball, Bee with Drill Run
[18:15:09] #ezaphs: Mega Alakazam Psychic vs. Dugtrio-Alola: 55-66 (50 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
[18:15:20] #Yoshizilla315: -
[18:15:24] #Yoshizilla315: Mega ALakazam -> UR
[18:15:24] #ezaphs: takes surprisingly well
[18:15:52] #ezaphs: any other thoughts? this is a 2 person conversation at this point
[18:16:11] #Yoshizilla315: Mega Gengar Shadow Ball vs. Dugtrio-Alola: 96-114 (87.2 - 103.6%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO
[18:16:13] #Yoshizilla315: I get really unlucky
[18:16:15] #Yoshizilla315: because
[18:16:17] #Yoshizilla315: this always OHKOs me
[18:16:17] #Yoshizilla315: -
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[18:16:51] #Yoshizilla315: Okay that was productive
[18:16:54] #Yoshizilla315: I have another question
[18:17:02] #Yoshizilla315: What are the problematic elements of Mew (if any)?
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[18:17:16] #Funbot28: more the stallbreaker set
[18:17:23] #Yoshizilla315: I'd have to agree with that
[18:17:28] #Yoshizilla315: Bulky Mew is a pain to deal with
[18:17:29] #ezaphs: it's bulk is the most problematic element by far I'd say
[18:17:31] #Funbot28: can be rlly hard for slower teams to break down
[18:17:33] #ezaphs: its*
[18:17:55] #Yoshizilla315: wisp is
[18:17:57] #Yoshizilla315: a dumb move
[18:18:10] #ezaphs: mew's presence can really make it hard for mons that could otherwise perform decent roles to make a name in ou
[18:18:16] #Yoshizilla315: Hitmonlee
[18:18:18] #Yoshizilla315:
[18:18:28] #Yoshizilla315: and maybe Primeape
[18:18:36] #Yoshizilla315: but at least Poliwrath is a good Fighting-type
[18:18:37] #ezaphs: a huge majority of physical attackers can be invalidated at the click of a button
[18:19:03] #Yoshizilla315: that's why
[18:19:09] #Yoshizilla315: Eevee-S is still viable tbh
[18:19:09] #ezaphs: after a Will-O-Wisp, you have to be called Facade Snorlax or other Normal type to 1v1
[18:19:12] #Yoshizilla315: to cure burns from Mew
[18:19:13] #ezaphs: reliably that is
[18:19:14] #Yoshizilla315: and Toxic of course
[18:19:25] #Yoshizilla315: ALolan Muk still beats Mew I'm pretty sure
[18:19:31] #Yoshizilla315: because everyone always gets the Crunch drop
[18:19:49] #ezaphs: unreliable at best and everyone has a mon that can come in on a burned muk
[18:20:04] #Yoshizilla315: eh this is true
[18:20:22] #Yoshizilla315: do people run
[18:20:28] #Yoshizilla315: -Speed or Attack on stallbreaker mew
[18:20:50] #Yoshizilla315: I run -Speed
[18:20:53] #ezaphs: -Attack, no reason to sacrifice Speed when you could get a faster heal imo
[18:21:07] #Yoshizilla315: okay
[18:21:08] #Yoshizilla315: eza
[18:21:11] #Yoshizilla315: I was just looking in the buidler and
[18:21:15] #Yoshizilla315: Dedenite Mew has no nature
[18:21:15] #Yoshizilla315: LOL
[18:21:32] #ezaphs: uh
[18:21:50] #ezaphs: definitely has timid ???
[18:21:55] #Yoshizilla315: was blank for me oo
[18:21:58] #ezaphs: odd
[18:22:08] %CasedVictory: SpD or Spe naturs
[18:22:09] %CasedVictory: work
[18:22:14] #ezaphs: actually I'd like to mention another problematic element
[18:22:16] #ezaphs: versatility
[18:22:40] #Yoshizilla315: idk
[18:22:43] #Yoshizilla315: I don't see that being a problem at all
[18:22:48] #ezaphs: not anywhere near as problematic
[18:22:50] #Yoshizilla315: it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the Mew set
[18:23:00] #ezaphs: but having multiple sets in an otherwise fairly static metagame
[18:23:08] #ezaphs: can make it a bit harder to deal with
[18:23:17] #Yoshizilla315: A lot of Pokemon have different sets and coverage options though
[18:23:24] #ezaphs: not to mew's extent
[18:23:28] #Yoshizilla315: like Melmetal, Mega Gyarados, Mega Alakazam, Alolan Dugtrio
[18:23:32] #Yoshizilla315: Snorlax
[18:23:37] #ezaphs: it basically has all of their movepools
[18:23:53] #Yoshizilla315: that's true
[18:23:57] #Yoshizilla315: Waterfall Mew :cwl:
[18:23:57] #ezaphs: and the stats to do any of their things
[18:24:15] #Yoshizilla315: but is Mew better than Melmetal
[18:24:16] #ezaphs: also scald mew is bad but annoying
[18:24:33] #Yoshizilla315: I think Hayburner legit uses Scald Mew
[18:24:34] #ezaphs: and I'd say no, purely based off the fact that Melmetal almost never doesn't get a KO
[18:24:43] #ezaphs: and Mew sometimes doesn't
[18:25:00] #Yoshizilla315: this is true
[18:25:04] #Yoshizilla315: Melmetal is just so bulky
[18:25:11] #Yoshizilla315: oh shit it has 143 attack
[18:25:12] #Yoshizilla315: lolol
[18:25:15] #ezaphs: also Melmetal is harder to answer and therefore spreads damage better as people don't really have dedicated answers
[18:25:23] #ezaphs: so they let whatever take the hit
[18:25:42] #Yoshizilla315: yeah that's true
[18:25:46] #Yoshizilla315: a bit unrelated but
[18:25:49] #Yoshizilla315: is Meltan good in LC
[18:25:53] #ezaphs: on the other hand, melmetal does actually have bad stats
[18:26:03] #Yoshizilla315: yeah
[18:26:04] #ezaphs: and Meltan is technically a standalone mon in Let's Go
[18:26:08] #Yoshizilla315: oh right
[18:26:09] #ezaphs: it only evolves in Go
[18:26:09] #Yoshizilla315: it's not LC
[18:26:11] #Yoshizilla315: well
[18:26:15] #ezaphs: but even if it did it'd likely suck
[18:26:19] #Yoshizilla315: Melmetal does have shit Speed and medicore Spdef
[18:26:25] #Yoshizilla315: lucikly it doesn't have to make use of it's spttack either
[18:26:33] #ezaphs: yeah, that's where mew has the edge
[18:26:44] #Yoshizilla315: right
[18:26:45] #ezaphs: it doesn't really have a weak point
[18:26:49] #Yoshizilla315: Melmetal is physically bulkier than Melmetal
[18:26:51] #Yoshizilla315: er
[18:26:52] #Yoshizilla315: Mew
[18:26:55] #ezaphs: and its weak points can be supported
[18:26:58] #Yoshizilla315: but Mew makes up for htat in better spdef and balanced stats
[18:27:00] #Yoshizilla315: with wisp
[18:27:05] #ezaphs: also recovery
[18:27:08] #Yoshizilla315: right
[18:27:12] Spooktune: Howdy
[18:27:15] #ezaphs: ay
[18:27:19] #Yoshizilla315: howdy
[18:27:34] Spooktune: Did i miss the socratic seminar
[18:27:38] #ezaphs: it's going on rn
[18:27:42] #ezaphs: hard to tell I know
[18:27:43] Spooktune: Cool
[18:27:50] Spooktune: yeah :(
[18:27:58] #Yoshizilla315: Spooktune what are your thoughtso n Mew
[18:28:26] Spooktune: Will-o-wisp + Roost is a pain in the ass to play against
[18:28:35] #ezaphs: undeniably
[18:28:42] #Yoshizilla315: right
[18:29:14] Spooktune: even if youre a special attacker, it just chips you down if you dont do 50%+ damage and arent faster
[18:29:28] #Yoshizilla315: how much does bee uturn do to mew
[18:29:36] Spooktune: Idunno
[18:29:46] #ezaphs: things are starting to run toxic more and more which helps with dealing w/ it, it often takes one when not expecting
[18:29:53] Spooktune: the only mon ive had success with beating mew is gengar-m
[18:29:58] #ezaphs: although that could be an argument for Eevee's value
[18:30:32] Spooktune: and if theres only like 1-2 things that can reliably hit mew then thats a problem
[18:30:35] #Yoshizilla315: and thus it is the next 15 minute mark
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[18:30:41] #Yoshizilla315: So we are ready for another question!
[18:31:09] #Yoshizilla315: Was this test necessary at all? How could it have been done better? Is Eza a bad TL?
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[18:31:27] Spooktune: Yeah he is
[18:31:29] #Yoshizilla315: -
[18:31:32] Spooktune: :^}
[18:31:44] #Yoshizilla315: hey Funbot28
[18:31:56] #Yoshizilla315: what are your thoughts on this crisply crafted improved question
[18:32:18] Spooktune: i think this test was necessary, even if the votes arent correct it still means we saw what the players thought of mew
[18:32:26] #ezaphs: No tests are necessary unless they result in change, but whether they're worthwhile is an entirely different story
[18:32:41] #Yoshizilla315: Spooktune why do you think Mew is broken
[18:32:44] #ezaphs: it could have been done better if I could actually read the timings for suspect tours
[18:32:51] #ezaphs: and I'm an amazing tl
[18:32:52] Spooktune: it.. doesnt die.....
[18:32:54] #Funbot28: ye i think so
[18:33:05] #Funbot28: we were kinda split on council opinion initially]
[18:33:09] Spooktune: either that or im just bad
[18:33:13] #Funbot28: but know i thiink we all agree that it aint broke
[18:33:16] #Yoshizilla315: yeah
[18:33:24] #Yoshizilla315: collectively we agree it's not broken
[18:34:11] Spooktune: Im kinda split really
[18:34:16] #Yoshizilla315: why
[18:34:17] #ezaphs: I find Mew impossible to kill when I don't run anything that kills it
[18:34:45] Spooktune: on one hand its really nice and using its bulk it can switch into things thst normally would hurt alot
[18:35:14] Spooktune: yeah eza i agree
[18:35:19] #Yoshizilla315: -
[18:35:37] #Yoshizilla315: I also find Mew impossible to kill when I don't run anything that kills it
[18:35:51] Spooktune: Wait
[18:36:00] Spooktune: im bad at reading
[18:36:03] #ezaphs: lol
[18:36:16] #ezaphs: honestly, toxic is a very viable status condition and always will be
[18:36:27] #Yoshizilla315: yeah that was clear from the start
[18:36:35] Spooktune: yeah since at a point mew cant toxic it off
[18:36:39] #ezaphs: and in the current meta with people understanding how to deal with Eevee support, it isn't hard to eventually status mew and deal with it
[18:36:40] Spooktune: er
[18:36:41] Spooktune: roost
[18:37:08] #ezaphs: but until you get a toxic off / get your fast broken mega in you might be faced with an annoyance
[18:37:39] #Yoshizilla315: does Mew usually outspeed or underspeed mega gyara
[18:37:59] #ezaphs: outspeed
[18:38:11] #Yoshizilla315: mmk
[18:38:13] #ezaphs: gyara runs adamant usually and mew runs timid usually
[18:38:16] #Yoshizilla315: right
[18:38:19] #Yoshizilla315: so you wisp the gyara
[18:38:22] #Yoshizilla315: and then it's an ungyara
[18:39:03] #Yoshizilla315: ezaphs do you think melmetal is banworthy
[18:39:27] #ezaphs: not right now
[18:39:41] #Yoshizilla315: you think potentially in the future?
[18:39:58] #ezaphs: I think that at this early point in the meta, a blanket check that has significant weaknesses is useful for meta development
[18:40:30] #ezaphs: but its strengths could very easily become too much if more sophisticated cores are developed around them
[18:40:40] #Yoshizilla315: that's true
[18:40:44] #Yoshizilla315: but I think team building is in a rough spot rn
[18:40:52] #Yoshizilla315: there's probably ilke 10 mons that are used a lot
[18:40:56] #ezaphs: it already helps facilitate strong mons such as Dragonite and Beedrill, although granted it also answers them
[18:41:21] #Yoshizilla315: Melmetal, Clef, Dragonite, Poliwrath, Mega Beedrill, Alolan Dugtrio, Mew, Mega Gyarados, Alolan Muk, and Mega Alakazam
[18:41:26] #Yoshizilla315: oh Snorlax > zam
[18:42:04] #ezaphs: I mean December style teams are still seeing play and success
[18:42:11] #ezaphs: they just aren't as dominant anymore
[18:42:18] #Yoshizilla315: yeah that's true
[18:42:28] #Yoshizilla315: speaking of that we should probably have a VR slate
[18:42:33] #ezaphs: absolutely
[18:42:33] #Yoshizilla315: there are a lot of mons that could rise several ranks
[18:42:38] #ezaphs: I think funbot was working on it
[18:42:46] #Yoshizilla315: Funbot28 how's that coming along
[18:43:10] #Funbot28: o ye a was wonderign what else to add
[18:43:32] #Yoshizilla315: Dragonite, Clefable, Snorlax, Zard-X
[18:43:32] #ezaphs: I'll put some suggestions in the vr chat
[18:43:35] #Yoshizilla315: are four I was thinking
[18:43:39] #Yoshizilla315: but yeah that's a VR chat discussion lol
 

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