Gen 4 Lickilicky (NU Analysis) [QC 1/2]

[OVERVIEW]

In a tier dominated by powerful special attackers, Lickilicky stands out as one of the main answer to them due to its solid special bulk and access to reliable recovery in the form of Wish. It distinguishes itself from other specially defensive Pokemon like Slowking, Gardevoir, and Hypno with its lack of Dark weaknesses, which means it doesn't fear Pursuit from the omnipresent Skuntank nearly as much as its competitors. Its typing also allows it to serve as a potential check to some variants of Haunter, Shiftry, and Venomoth, a task that Psychic-types cannot fulfill. Furthermore, like many Normal-types, Lickilicky is blessed with a tremendous movepool and well-rounded stats all around. As a consequence, Lickilicky can turn into an offensive threat, notably packing the strongest unboosted move in the game : STABed Explosion.

However, each Lickilicky's variant has its fair share of drawbacks : due to its average offensive stats, it's very passive without significant investisment. Thus, defensive sets can be abused pretty easily by Pokemon like Drifblim and Poliwrath. On the other hand, offensive Lickilicky suffers from a low Speed, average Attack stat, and thus from stiff competition with Tauros and Dodrio as a Normal type wallbreaker. Moreover, a lot of Pokemon can exploit Lickilicky's Fighting weakness, including Focus Blast users like Gardevoir, Magmortar, and Typhlosion, which greatly hurts its reliability as a special wall.

[SET]

name: Special Wall
Move 1: Wish
Move 2: Protect
Move 3: Return / Body Slam
Move 4: Toxic / Heal Bell / Aqua Tail
item: Leftovers
ability: Own Tempo
nature: Careful
evs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]

Here is Lickilicky's main set, which fulfills a pretty important task in a metagame dominated by special wallbreakers. Wish is Lickilicky's most reliable form of recovery, which also allows to heal up its teammates. Protect makes Wish much safier to use, and has some other desirable features, like punishing a predicted High Jump Kick from a reckless Medicham, scouting on which move a Choice item user like Tauros locks itself into, burning some PPs from moves like Focus Blast, and gaining additionnal recovery from Leftovers. Return is Lickilicky's main offensive move due to its natural BP further boosted by STAB. Body Slam is an option if want to spread paralysis, but be careful not to prevent opposing defensive Pokemon like Regirock and Slowking from being infactuated by a more crippling statue effect like poison. On the last slot, Toxic makes up for Lickilicky's passivity and allows to stall out opposing defensive Pokemon that don't carry Toxic themselves like the aforementionned Slowking and Regirock. Heal Bell is available if you can't afford to have Lickilicky itself or any of its partners crippled by statues. Finally, Aqua Tail makes Lickilicky less of an offensive liability by preventing Drifblim, Haunter, and Rhydon from setting up too easily on it. Other attacking moves like Power Whip can be considered, if you want to prevent Poliwrath and Whiscash from using Lickilicky as a set up fodder. On stall teams, Knock Off is an option as it can hinder a lot of unexpecting targets by removing their item. For example, it can remove Poliwrath's Leftovers so that its use of Substitute is limited and entry hazards rack up on it faster. It can also remove items that boost the power of wallbreakers, such as Choice Specs Typhlosion, Choice Band Floatzel, or Life Orb Magmortar, making each of them significantly easier for Lickilicky or one of its teammates to wall. However, in many cases, Toxic or even just Return is sufficient to deter these threats.

[ADDITIONNAL COMMENTS]

Maximizing HP and Special Defense is necessary to effectively check the likes of Charizard, Jynx, and Manectric. Leftovers is a natural choice for a staller. Nonetheless, since Lickilicky's natural physical bulk is just as good as its special bulk, maximizing its Defense instead is certainly possible if you need to keep the likes of Tauros and Dodrio in check. However, NU is more specially oriented and the Fighting weakness becomes even more hindering for a physicall wall. Some mixed defensive spread are playable as well, 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD with a Careful nature provides enough physical bulk to survive a Close Combat from Scarf Hitmonchan, whereas an Impish Lickilicky with 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD will live Focus Punch from Poliwrath and Explosion from some bulky Skuntank variants, while still being able to take a Focus Blast from the likes of Gardevoir and Magmortar. This Lickilicky's variant fits mostly on balance and stall teams, where its passivity isn't too bothersome.

Lickilicky's ability to heal its teammates with Wish is greatly appreciated by Pokemon such as Regirock, which provides a good defensive presence against Tauros, Dodrio, and Drifblim, three Pokemon that can take advantage of Lickilicky. It is forced out by Fighting-types like Medicham, Hitmonchan and Poliwrath. Therefore, having a reliable answer to most of these threats like Sableye and Slowking is a good idea. Furthermore, Lickilicky has an harder time performing as a special wall if the opposing Charizard, Magmortar, Typhlosion, Gardevoir, or Jynx packs Focus Blast, although spamming Protect and Wish can take its toll. Thus, some additionnal insurances against these Pokemonin the form of Politoed and once again Slowking can be considered.

[SET]

name : Swords Dance
Move 1: Swords Dance
Move 2: Return
Move 3: Aqua Tail / Power Whip
Move 4: Explosion / Substitute / Heal Bell
item: Leftovers
ability: Own Tempo
nature: Adamant / Careful
evs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

With this set, Lickilicky can turn into a potent stallbreaker thanks to its bulk and access to Swords Dance, as it can find several opportunities to set up throughout the match. Return is a decently powerful and reliable STAB without any significant drawbacks. Aqua Tail grants a near perfect neutral coverage alongside Return, and hits Haunter and Drifblim very hard when boosted. Power Whip packs a very appealing immediate power and coverage, notably scoring a guaranteed 2HKO on Regirock and most Cradily, as well as an OHKO on Slowking. Explosion provides a tremendously powerful last-dish tool, as it will break through Regircok after one Swords Dance. Substitute, on the other hand, is a more defensive approach which allows Lickilicky to avoid statues and to set up Swords Dance safely against passive Pokemon. If you manage to keep the substitute up, you may deter frailer and faster Pokemon that might try to revenge kill Lickilicky. Heal Bell enables Lickilicky to directly switch on defensive threats without having to worry about being statued. It also works better against Pokemon that are strong enough to break the substitute in one hit and hinder Lickilicky with statues afterwards.

[ADDITIONNAL COMMENTS]

The given EV spread aims to hit as hard as possible while outspeeding 70 base Speed Pokemon like Poliwrath and Politoed withou investment. The rest is dumped into HP in order to keep some bulk, enabling Lickilicky to eat two Thunderbolt from Scarf Manectric after Stealth Rock. However, if you're using Substitute, then you may opt for a more chaotic EV spread like 252 HP / 24 Atk / 92 SpD / 140 Spe, which provides a substitute sturdy enough to take a Surf from defensive Slowking, a Rock Slide from Cradily and some Regirock, and a Seismic Toss, as well as any hit weaker than these. Leftovers compounds the health lost by the potential use of Substitute or by the damages inflicted by the defensive Pokemon that Lickilicky use as set up baits.

Said Pokemon need to be dragged onto the field for Lickilicky to come in and start using Swords Dance. Sweepers like Drifblim, Floatzel, Charizard, and Typhlosion tend to attract the likes of Slowking, Cradily, and defensive Lickilicky. All of these can serve as set up baits for this Lickilicky variant. Unless it manages to always keep the cover from Substitute, Lickilicky will be forced out by faster Fighting-types like Medicham, Hitmonchan, and Poliwrath and overall strong offensive threats like Tauros or Magmortar. Therefore, defensive backbones in the form of Sableye and Slowking remain good partners.

[SET]

name: Choice Band
Move 1: Return
Move 2: Power Whip
Move 3: Ice Punch
Move 4: Explosion
item: Choice Band
ability: Own Tempo
nature: Adamant
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]

Although Lickilicky faces a lot of competition from the likes of Tauros and Dodrio as an offensive Normal-type due to their superior Speed and Attack, Choice Band Lickilicky still retains some merits, namely its bulk, its movepool, and the potential surprise factor. Return remains Lickilicky's preferred STAB move. Power Whip is a powerful coverage move that 2HKOes most Regirock and Sableye variants after Stealth Rocks and heavily dents Slowking and Sandslash, among other physically bulky Pokemon. Ice Punch nearly OHKOes Haunter and Gligar and 2HKOes Cradily and Drifblim. Explosion tears through just about anything bar Ghost-types and a couple of very physically bulky Rock-types, which means that most Pokemon that would be able to tank other Lickilicky's assaults still have to watch out. Aqua Tail remains a nice compromise due to its overall coverage which allows to hit all of Magneton, Haunter, Sandslash, Drifblim, Regirock, and Gligar for good damages.

[ADDITIONNAL COMMENTS]

The given EV spread allows Lickilicky to outspeed uninvested 70 base Speed Pokemon while hitting as hard as possible, the remaining EVs go into HP. Investing more into HP can be considered, for instance 232 EVs in this stat ensures that some common Pokemon like Offensive Skuntank, Choice Scarf Gardevoir, and Life Orb Venomoth cannot 2HKO this Lickilicky after Stealth Rock damages, but it requires to cut your Speed by a significant amount. Adamant nature and Choice Band further enhances Lickilicky's attack.

Just like the previous set, Choice Band Lickilicky has an easier coming onto the field and starting punching holes if the opposing happens to be a relatively passive Pokemon like Cradily or Hypno. Thus, offensive Pokemon like Charizard and Manectric remain teammates of choice since they tend to attract this kind of Pokemon. In a similar manner, Lickilicky is still pressured by faster Fighting-types and other powerhouses, which means that typical answers to these threats like Sableye and Slowking are once again among Lickilicky's favorite partners.

[Other Options]

With its bulk and access to a ridiculously strong Explosion, Lickilicky makes a good Sunny Day or Rain Dance setter in dedicated weather teams. Curse makes Lickilicky harder to break through on the physical side an enables it to ideally sweep the opposing team. Nonetheless, Cradily mostly outclasses it in this area thanks to its access to an immediate and reliable form of recovery and to a STAB without immunities. Block can be used to trap an incoming Pokemon so the opponent cannot double switch afterwards, and with Likilicky stats and movepool you can potentially play around some of its usual switch ins once they're trapped. A SubPunch set can be considered thanks to Lickilicky's solid Substitute and ability to get rid of Regirock and Cradily, but the Swords Dance usually performs better. Lickilicky possesses a colorful special movepool, including Fire Blast, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt. However, Lickilicky's physical arsenal provides a good enough coverage most of the time, although moves like Shadow Ball to hit the likes of Haunter and Drifblim or Surf to deal with Regirock, Rhydon, and Fire-types can find their place into the first set listed.

[Checks & Counters]

Fighting-types like Medicham and Hitmonchan OHKO Lickilicky with their respective STAB attack, although the former shouldn't mindlessly use High Jump Kick in front of a Lickilicky with Protect. Poliwrath deserves a special mention as it can exploit Lickilicky by locking it on the wrong move with Encore or setting up with Bulk Up under Substitute cover. The only moves it has to watch out are Power Whip as well as Toxic on the switch. Among Ghost-types, Drifblim is especially painful for Lickilicky to face as the Calm Mind variants can freely set-up on the defensive variant and makes a good check to the offensive variants, seeing that banded Ice Punch and boosted Aqua Tail are the only moves that scare it off. Haunter is in a similar position, but its extreme frailty and lack of boosting moves make it a much less reliable answer. Sableye can shut down most Lickilicky with Taunt and Will-O-Wisp, but it wants to avoid Toxic and boosted Power Whip on the switch. Some bulky set up Pokemon like Calm Mind Slowking, Curse Cradily, Swords Dance Meganium, and Dragon Dance Whishcash can take advantage of non Toxic defensive Lickilicky , but are in trouble against any other variants. Lickilicky also heavily despises being intoxicated unless it runs Heal Bell, and even if that's the case the low PPs of this move make common Toxic users like Regirock, Charizard, Hypno, and opposing Lickilicky potential threats. It should also be wary of switching into the likes of scarfed Manectric and Gardevoir, as they can give their Choice Scarf via Switcheroo or Trick, respectively, which cripples Lickilicky heavily. Finally, common users of Focus Blast like Magmortar, Gardevoir, and Typhlosion as well as strong physical wallbreakers like Tauros, Dodrio, and Rhydon can break through or revenge kill Lickilicky. However, a combination of Protect and Wish can keep it alive until Focus Blast PPs are gone and scout on which moves the aforementionned Choice Band users are locked.
 
Last edited:

Yoshi

And so the adventure begins.
is a Pre-Contributor
okay I guess that's cool.

Lickilicky is my favorite gen 2 pokemon btw

edit: I fxed the gen 4 you (pun intended) because it was bothering me
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
Return should absolutely be an option on the main set especially when running Toxic. You don’t want to paralyze a Regirock or Slowking when you carry Toxic, etc.

Will get around to a more full check eventually.
 

Honko

he of many honks
is a member of the Site Staffis a Programmeris a Top Contributor
Looks pretty good to me overall.

- Lickilicky distinguishes itself from other specially defensive Pokemon like Slowking, Grumpig, and Hypno with its lack of Dark, Ghost, and Bug weaknesses, which means it doesn't fear Skuntank nearly as much as its competitors and can potentially check Haunter, Shiftry, and Venomoth.
  1. Specifically call out Pursuit here. The lack of Pursuit weakness is the key thing that sets it apart from the Psychics. The Ghost/Bug neutrality doesn't really count for much since those are fairly uncommon attacking types and Lickilicky isn't a very good answer to most Ghosts or Bugs anyway. If Pursuit didn't exist, I'd take Hypno or Gardevoir over Licky as my WishPasser every single time.
  2. I don't think Haunter/Shiftry/Venomoth are the best examples here. Haunter is neutral since its standard set and Licky's standard set do basically nothing to each other. I wouldn't want Licky as my main Shiftry switch-in since SD Shiftry stomps it. Venomoth probably beats Licky 1v1 with Sleep Powder + Roost. I think Typhlosion and Manectric would be better examples.
[SET]
name: Special Wall
Move 1: Wish
Move 2: Protect
Move 3: Body Slam
Move 4: Toxic / Heal Bell / Knock Off
item: Leftovers
ability: Oblivious
  1. 100% agree with Bughouse about Return in the 3rd slot. It should be the main option. Lickilicky is usually on teams that want to spread poison and burn, even if it's not using Toxic itself in the 4th slot.
  2. Ability should be Own Tempo (on all sets). Lickilicky's more likely to get confused by Signal Beam than to get infatuated by anything.
Finally, Knock Off can hinder a lot of unexcepting targets by removing their item and allows Lickilicky to reliably check Haunter, which it cannot touch otherwise.
Knock Off has its merits, but I don't think it actually changes the matchup vs Haunter much. If Haunter doesn't have Pain Split, Lickilicky can just stall it out with Wish while it kills itself with LO recoil, no Knock Off needed. If Haunter is SubSplit, Knock Off won't help Lickilicky much since it doesn't break the Sub; Haunter will eventually poison Lickilicky with Sludge Bomb and then can stall it out of Wish PP.

[SET]
name: Choice Band
Move 1: Return
Move 2: Power Whip
Move 3: Ice Punch
Move 4: Explosion
  1. I'm not sure if CB deserves a full set, since I can't recall the last time I saw it used effectively in NU. The coverage and STAB Explosion are nice on paper, but realistically Tauros is always a better choice, and even if you're spamming Normals I'd pick something like Granbull over this. Let someone else chime in though before you move it to OO.
  2. If you do keep this set, I think Aqua Tail is at least worth mentioning in the comments as a nice compromise move that hits all of Haunter/Drifblim/Regirock/Sandslash/Gligar/Magneton for decent damage.
[Other Options]
I'd add a mention that it's a decent weather supporter with its bulk and Explosion.

- Lickilicky possesses a colorful special movepool, including Fire Blast, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt. However, Lickilicky's physical arsenal provides a more useful coverage overall.
Its special coverage is actually better than its physical imo. I think the main reason you don't see it run special moves very often is that it lacks a special STAB to go with them. The defensive set can viably run moves like Surf or Shadow Ball in the last slot though.
 

Oglemi

step up, snap ya back
is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Top Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Smogon Historian
CB is good enough for a set imo, it's decent enough largely because of surprise value and the fact that explosion koes basically everything (70-90% to 252/0 regirock is literally insane). It's bulk also ensures it'll get bare minimum 2 attacks off, even more against slower bulkier teams, which thanks to its decent power means it'll break something down for a teammate. I would include it over something like granbull if I needed an extra check to special attackers, ie scarf typh or manectric which would just otherwise plow through bull.

Agree with the rest of honkos changes, will take another look when those are added in
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
The main defensive set can absolutely run aqua tail or power whip in the 4th slot to threaten mons like Rhydon (and also hit Haunter and Drifblim).
Aqua Tail has a high chance to 2hko offensive zard or haunter (guaranteed if they take LO recoil too).
I generally prefer Aqua Tail for the accuracy and these aforementioned matchups, but power whip is certainly much better in the poliwrath matchup.

Explosion should be the first slash on SD imo. I prefer Aqua Tail on this set too imo though that one I'm less sure of.
For SD, since I'm not trying to use Sub, I go with a faster spread. Your fast spread may be more than necessary, since 0 speed Gard and Meganium are somewhat rare... they should at least run 16 EVs to outrun 252 Speed neutral base 50s like Regice or Vileplume. This unfortunately outruns Lickilicky for the same reason. But still, outrunning 0 Speed Poliwrath and RP Rhydon and Camerupt is nice.
While I get the bulkier sub set's ability to set up on standard slowking, that's one of the only Pokemon in the tier it can do so on (Hypno I guess, but you can't actually sub up on it without potentially eating a Toxic.) 0 Atk Rock Slide Regirock is kinda an unset. I think the lowest I like to run on non-Curse Regirock is 72 Atk and most are considerably more. It looks like my most commonly used spread is 148+ Atk, which conveniently always breaks (though that's not the benchmark lol):
148+ Atk Regirock Rock Slide vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lickilicky: 108-127 (25.4 - 29.9%)

Trick/Switcheroo should probably get into checks and counters, even though it can be scouted for with Protect. It's more of a problem for Lickilicky when it's switching into something it should counter like a Manectric, but instead receives choice specs/scarf via switcheroo. Gardevoir, Haunter, and Jynx can all do the same via Trick as well (I'd personally use Gard as the example).
 
Implemented the changes. Sorry it took so long.

Thank you for the positive feedbacks btw. Let me know if you want me to change anything else.

Edit: As asked, I changed the wording regarding Pursuit. However, I kept Haunter, Shiftry, and Venomoth as examples. My point is that Lickilicky can be used as a CHECK to these, whereas mots of its competitors cannot due to their Psychic type. Haunter tends to die from LO recoil, mixed Shiftry hates Lickilicky because it has to be wary of exploding due to Protect, and Specs Venomoth 4HKOes it with Bug Buzz, so Sleep Powder + Roost have an hard time breaking through it, is 2HKOed by uninvested Return, and will die if it misses Sleep Powder at the wrong time. Besides, Lickilicky isn't completely safe against Typhlosion and Manectric either, as the former invalidates it as an answer if it's a Specs variant, whereas the latter can cripple it with Switcheroo.
 
Last edited:

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
I still personally would almost never run the specially defensive set as written with the first 4 slashes... but I do know others do, and the alternative attacks to keep Licky from being so passive are at least mentioned in the set comments... so I guess the analysis is fine as is.

I think it's worth mentioning that Lickilicky can also run mixed bulk, though max spdef or def is definitely the standard. If you were going to run a mixed bulk Lickilicky, some spreads I've run include 252 HP / 76 Def / 180+ SpD (lives Scarf Hitmonchan CC) or 252 HP / 40 Atk / 96+ Def / 120 SpD - this one lives Poliwrath Focus Punch, bulky trapper Skunk Explosion, and iirc still every relevant Focus Blast, after Rocks and lefties. I think the 40 Atk was to guarantee sub break against cheeky Poliwrath that run bulk, but I'm not sure. It could definitely be moved to a defensive stat.

The SD set is written confusingly since you mention the spread of the actual set as an alternative to the set...

This analysis mentions Grumpig a few times, which just isn't a mon commonly seen in DPP NU at all anymore. It didn't get used at all in the most recent NUPL.

In checks and counters, Misdreavus is not a relevant pokemon.

Block should be in other options.
 
Implemented the changes.

However, I didn't find the use behind the 40 EVs in Atkin one of your mixed defnsive spread so I put these into SpD instead:
40 Atk Lickilicky Return vs. +1 252 HP / 0 Def Poliwrath: 70-84 (18.2 - 21.8%) -- possible 6HKO after Leftovers recovery

Uninvested return still breaks a Substitute from max HP Poliwrath. Let me know if you remember what they allow to accomplish, or if you want me to change anything else.
 

Honko

he of many honks
is a member of the Site Staffis a Programmeris a Top Contributor
I only have much experience with the SpDef set, but going max speed on SD and CB seems weird to me. If I was gonna run either of those sets I'd probably run a bunch of HP with just enough speed creep to feel comfortable that I'd always outspeed defensive base 50s. Bughouse Oglemi what's your take on this?

Also I think Aqua Tail deserves the slash over Knock Off on the first set. It's way more common and it fits on more teams. Knock Off is cool but it only really fits on a full stall team where you have another cleric and several other status spreaders (otherwise it's hard to justify over Toxic or Heal Bell). And even then, the two successful full stall teams that I know of with Licky don't use Knock Off on it. It's more suited for the set comments or OO imo.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
When I run SD I usually go pretty fast but not max. 180 I think.

Also since Honko agrees on the 4th move being Aqua Tail please make that update. Make Knock Off a set comment and explain its only use is on stall. Heal Bell and Toxic, while passive, can stay. These could be used on balanced teams too.
 

Oglemi

step up, snap ya back
is a member of the Site Staffis a Super Moderatoris a Top Contributoris a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Researcher Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnus
Smogon Historian
CB definitely wants bulk. I think I used to run enough Speed for min base 70s (poliwrath and hypno) but you could definitely go as far as base 80s (meganium), or just do like 44 evs as minimal investment. Iirc at the 70s marl you have enough bulk to switch in and eat two attacks from scarf manectric which sounds like a good benchmark. (This is all on mobile and I no longer have this team so)

Agree with the speed on SD. No comment on aqua tail or knock off on spd spread, I usually just go power whip myself.
 
Last edited:
Implemented the changes. I've took a spread which allows to outspeed uninvested 70 base Speed mon while keeping enough bulk to live 2 Thunderbolt from Scarf Manectric after SR, just as Oglemi said. let me know if you want mee to change anything else.
 

Honko

he of many honks
is a member of the Site Staffis a Programmeris a Top Contributor
Outspeeding base 70s seems reasonable to me for the SD set to beat Encore Poliwrath. Not totally convinced that it's necessary for CB since the draw of that set vs other Normal-type CBers is supposed to be its bulk, and dropping so much HP means you have a much harder time switching in on stuff like Scarf Gardevoir or LO Venomoth. Is Poliwrath even really a threat to that set? I'd at least mention a bulkier spread in AC.

Also, I think your spread is slightly off. You only need 164 Spe to beat min Poliwrath, so you can move 4 more EVs into HP which conveniently hits a Leftovers number for the SD set. If you're trying to minimize SR damage on the CB set, put the 4 extra in SpD instead. Putting them in Spe is speed creep.

Finally, Aqua Tail makes Lickilicky less of an offensive liability by allowing it to hit Haunter and Fire-types hard.
Drifblim, Haunter, and Rhydon are the most important targets. The extra damage vs Fire-types is just a little bonus; it's only ~20% stronger than Return and less accurate so it's almost a wash.

Other than that, looks good.
 
Implemented most of the changes.

On the spread, I think that they're pretty much necessary if your aim is to outspeed Poliwrath since it might throw 4 remaining EVs into Speed. Besides, I don't think that these EVs are really useful anywhere else than in Speed. In the case of CB, there are some Poliwrath out there that are running Brick Break and thus can threaten Lickilicky without being covered by Substitute, NUPL confirmed that. Still, a bulkier spread makes perfect sense.

However, if you really want me to change these details, I won't mind too much.
 

Honko

he of many honks
is a member of the Site Staffis a Programmeris a Top Contributor
Unless the policy changed in the last few years, aiming to outspeed 4 Spe Poliwrath is the definition of speed creep. In practice you're definitely right that putting 4 more in Spe is more likely to be useful than 4 more in HP, but the problem is that then we could write the Poliwrath analysis to have 12 Spe so it beats 168 Spe Licky, and then update Licky to have 176 Spe so it beats 12 Spe Poliwrath, and then update Poliwrath to have 20 Spe, and so on. To prevent that, as far as I am aware, the policy is to only have spreads that aim to outspeed opposing Pokemon with 0 Spe or 252 Spe investment, and then mention in the comments that you might want to run some extra speed to beat Poliwrath that invest in some Speed.

I'm fine with the bulkier spread being in AC since Oglemi and Bughouse seem to prefer the extra speed and they have more experience with it. I would slightly rephrase how you've written that paragraph to just emphasize that the extra bulk helps Lickilicky be able to pivot in on more stuff. LO Venomoth is just one of the first clear examples I found, not a super important one.
 
I didn't know about the policy, but it makes sense so i changed the spread accordingly.

Implemented the changes. let me know if you have any other suggestion.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
The comment about Knock Off is fine with respect to Poliwrath but not really Drifblim. I’d instead mention Knock Off’s effect on like Specs Typhlosion or some other heavy hitter. Removing Band/Specs/LO may make these mons more able to be checked by the stall team.

You left out what the mixed bulk spreads live hits from (please also double check the calcs to be sure)

Otherwise, I think I’m ok with this.

Apologies for this qc being so many steps.
 
Implemented the comment about Knock Off, but I'm not sure of what you want me to add with the mixed spread:

Wenderz said:
Some mixed defensive spread are playable as well, 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 SpD with a Careful nature provides enough physical bulk to survive a Close Combat from, whereas an Impish Lickilicky with 252 HP / 96 Def / 160 SpD will live Focus Punch from Poliwrath and Explosion from some bulky Skuntank variants, while still being able to take a Focus Blast from the likes of Gardevoir and Magmortar.
Is there any relevant hit I missed ?

By the way, don't worry about the number of checks, I don't mind it.
 

Bughouse

Like ships in the night, you're passing me by
is a member of the Site Staffis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a CAP Contributor Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnus
"provides enough physical bulk to survive a Close Combat from,"

from... Scarf Hitmonchan

252+ Atk Hitmonchan Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 76 Def Lickilicky: 356-422 (83.9 - 99.5%)

The knock off section still doesn't say quite what I think it should. I've rewritten it below to be clearer:

On stall teams, Knock Off is an option as it can hinder a lot of unexpecting targets by removing their item. For example, it can remove Poliwrath's Leftovers so that its use of Substitute is limited and entry hazards rack up on it faster. It can also remove items that boost the power of wallbreakers, such as Choice Specs Typhlosion, Choice Band Floatzel, or Life Orb Magmortar, making each of them significantly easier for Lickilicky or one of its teammates to wall. However, in many cases, Toxic or even just Return is sufficient to deter these threats.
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top