(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

Okay, time to make a long, rambling rant post again. It's been a while since the last time.

I just realized how massively Gen IX was hit with "legendary Pokémon inflation". Or, well, "legendary" might not be the right term, as there are some specific definitions afoot there. "Special Pokémon" inflation, perhaps?

Anyway, "special Pokémon" are a bit like swear words: tricky to define, but easy to recognize. It's an umbrella term that encompasses legendary Pokémon, mythical Pokémon, and a few more. With few exceptions, they are strong, usually one-off Pokémon that don't evolve, don't breed, and they tend to be treated with some special reverence in the in-game lore that separates them from regular Pokémon you may find randomly in the wild. Back the Gen I days, all such Pokémon were considered "legendary" and things were easy. You knew what you had, with Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, and Mewtwo. Entei, Raikou, Suicune, Lugia, and Ho-Oh all followed the same patterns as well. But later on, we've got Ultra Beasts and Paradox Pokémon and such that muddled the definitions a bit. And then in Gen VII, some legendaries (and Ultra Beasts) began to incorporate evolution, and ... yeah, it's a mess. But generally, you still recognize a "special Pokémon" when you see it. Legendary stats, no evolutions, no Eggs, hard to find and capture and typically stated in the lore to be too obscure for all but the toughest and bravest Trainers to even *encounter*, let alone catch.

These Pokémon were a small and exclusive bunch in the first few generations of Pokémon: We had five of them in Gen I, and six more in Gen II. Seven if you count Unown, which could fit by some definitions (sidenote annoyance: Unown is considered a completely alien and unique Pokémon species in every part of the franchise except the games, where it's a plain and boring Pokémon with zero use on any sanely constructed team). They were Pokémon you had to go out of your way to find, but they were strong and useful. This handful of Pokémon really stood out among the rest of the Pokémon in the game and deserved the "legendary" moniker.

Then from Gen III onwards, legendary inflation picked up a bit. We had the trio of box legendaries, the Regi trio, the Lati duo, and two mythical Pokémon, for a total of ten. 13 if you count the various forms of Deoxys, but let's not go there, and instead stick to distinct Pokédex numbers (I consider instead the Deoxys formes to be essentially inseparable features of Deoxys the Pokémon). Gen IV followed suit with 14 (15 if you count Rotom, which I think is fair). I remember we used to think this was rather too much at the time. Cover legends trio, Lake trio, Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, and *five* mythicals, in addition to that electric ghost thing? Yeah, the book of Pokémon legends was beginning to become quite lengthy.

But of course, Gen V said "hold my Casteliacone!", and gave us two legendary trios in addition to the cover legendaries, and three myhticals. 12 more legendary Pokémon in all, plus a rather disconcerting number of alternate formes. I recall discussions about how it really was too much now. So it was dialled back in Gen VI. Trio of cover legendaries, three mythicals, that's it. 6 in total. Everyone was happy with this respite of modesty...

...except the designers at Game Freak, evidently, who decided to introduce Ultra Beasts to Gen VII, legendaries in all but name and the reason why we had to adopt a new umbrella term from here on. So the generation gave us: a legendary quartet, two cover legendaries with two pre-evolutions, Necrozma (with three alternate formes), three classic Myhticals ... and 11 Ultra Beasts. Plus the edge cases of Meltan, Melmetal, Type:Null, and Silvally. 23 special Pokémon all in all.

Gen VIII was relatively modest again: The usual legendary trio, a mythical with two branching evolutions, a "classic" mythical in Zarude, two new Regis for some reason, the Crown Tundra trio, and Enamorus from PLA. That's 13.

And now, Gen IX. It's a generation I generally have a lot of positive things to say about, but holy moly does it go overboard with its special Pokémon: the four Treasures of Ruin. Two cover legendaries. The Loyal Three and their master Pecharunt. The DLC cover legends, Ogerpon and Terapagos. And ... twenty Paradox Pokémon. That's 32 Pokémon that mechanically behave akin to the original four Legendaries: they're found and caught at a high level, don't evolve, can't breed, have high stats, usually wide movepools, and powerful Abilities. As Gen IX introduced 120 Pokémon overall (so far - Legends Z-A is considered a Gen IX game), this is more than a quarter of the regional Pokédex.

I generally must say ... I don't care much for that type of Pokémon. They are, in a way, bypassing too many core aspects of the games to excite me. The essence of the series is that you catch Pokémon throughout your adventure, befriend them, train them to become stronger, and eventually you are rewarded with your Pokémon becoming more powerful through evolution and/or learning great new moves. Special Pokémon just give you an ultra-powerful Pokémon set and ready in a bundle, often with better stats than anything you can find and train through the "conventional" method. As soon as they are allowed in a battle format, they tend to absolutely dominate it, overshadowing and displacing most of the Pokémon you evolve and train and care. Granted, they are meant to be powerful and rare and such, but when there are so many of them, the upper echelons of Pokémon tend to be filled with them, only leaving room for "regular" Pokémon if they can pull off one specific gimmick better than others.

Besides, special Pokémon are meant to be, well, special, but they generally tend not to stay that way for long. In the game of their introduction, they may be the focus of a story quest and receive unique catch locations and possibly even cutscenes. But in later games, they tend to be relegated to a great, homogeneous pool of "legacy legendaries" locked behind a side quest or mechanic without fanfare. "You played the minigame and now you meet a Zekrom!" What a way to treat the revered embodiment of ideals, living deity of the Unova region. Doubly so when your playing of the minigame has net you three Zekrom already. Do it once more and catch the living embodiment of Time, or the revered being of Life, or a Sword of Justice, or what have you. Forget anything that moves in the region's grasslands or lakes or caves; to really play competitive you have to have to delve into this pantheon of gods as an entry level requirement. If you don't have a Zacian, you will be whooped by eight other trainers who all have one.

In short, legendaries and special Pokémon were once intended to be this little exclusive group of rare and powerful Pokémon, but over time their numbers have grown to the point of taking over a substantial portion of the Pokédex. This dilutes their uniqueness and pushes regular Pokémon towards irrelevance in many aspects. Yet they integrate poorly with the gameplay and aren't very engaging to use. They may be big and flashy and cool to use for promotional purposes, but I really think the number of special Pokémon has grown to become a couple order of magnitudes bigger than the games can make properly good use of.
 
I think it's fine for them to not have fanfare in subsequent games. They had their time, and this is typically post game side content for collection purposes. It's a reasonable split on story/gameplay for me.

Also, putting aside their domination of battling since yeah it'd be nice if they had more extended formats were regular Pokemon had time to shine, I have heard this same exact complaint using the same exact language and reasoning ("Legendary" or "Special" used to mean something) since gen 3. The millisecond there were more than 10 of these things total, it was too many. And *32 is a lot but also like... The boat has long since sailed. Maybe it's time to accept that it's generally just a label for a set of fancier Pokemon and that you (the rhetoric, general "you" not "you" specifically) are bringing more to this label than the series cares to?
(And tbh 88's still pretty good. That's more than the entirety of Gen 6, equal to all of gen 7 and somewhere in the ballpark of Gen 8.)



*The Paradoxes are also kind of in an odd space since outside of the 6 ""legendary"" Paradoxes (not including the capital L legendary ones...) they're all freely captureable in the crater. Even the UBs in USUM required some extra leg work. I suppose it's fitting for the gang based around not fitting in and shouldn't exist, that they're both these strong guys but also so readily available. kind of fits (though certainly unintentionally since we're not supposed to think too hard about their numbers increasing despite shutting down the machine or that we're freely using them) that they'd probably wreck the environment if they got out.
 
Okay, time to make a long, rambling rant post again. It's been a while since the last time.

I just realized how massively Gen IX was hit with "legendary Pokémon inflation". Or, well, "legendary" might not be the right term, as there are some specific definitions afoot there. "Special Pokémon" inflation, perhaps?

Anyway, "special Pokémon" are a bit like swear words: tricky to define, but easy to recognize. It's an umbrella term that encompasses legendary Pokémon, mythical Pokémon, and a few more. With few exceptions, they are strong, usually one-off Pokémon that don't evolve, don't breed, and they tend to be treated with some special reverence in the in-game lore that separates them from regular Pokémon you may find randomly in the wild. Back the Gen I days, all such Pokémon were considered "legendary" and things were easy. You knew what you had, with Articuno, Zapdos, Moltres, and Mewtwo. Entei, Raikou, Suicune, Lugia, and Ho-Oh all followed the same patterns as well. But later on, we've got Ultra Beasts and Paradox Pokémon and such that muddled the definitions a bit. And then in Gen VII, some legendaries (and Ultra Beasts) began to incorporate evolution, and ... yeah, it's a mess. But generally, you still recognize a "special Pokémon" when you see it. Legendary stats, no evolutions, no Eggs, hard to find and capture and typically stated in the lore to be too obscure for all but the toughest and bravest Trainers to even *encounter*, let alone catch.

These Pokémon were a small and exclusive bunch in the first few generations of Pokémon: We had five of them in Gen I, and six more in Gen II. Seven if you count Unown, which could fit by some definitions (sidenote annoyance: Unown is considered a completely alien and unique Pokémon species in every part of the franchise except the games, where it's a plain and boring Pokémon with zero use on any sanely constructed team). They were Pokémon you had to go out of your way to find, but they were strong and useful. This handful of Pokémon really stood out among the rest of the Pokémon in the game and deserved the "legendary" moniker.

Then from Gen III onwards, legendary inflation picked up a bit. We had the trio of box legendaries, the Regi trio, the Lati duo, and two mythical Pokémon, for a total of ten. 13 if you count the various forms of Deoxys, but let's not go there, and instead stick to distinct Pokédex numbers (I consider instead the Deoxys formes to be essentially inseparable features of Deoxys the Pokémon). Gen IV followed suit with 14 (15 if you count Rotom, which I think is fair). I remember we used to think this was rather too much at the time. Cover legends trio, Lake trio, Heatran, Regigigas, Cresselia, and *five* mythicals, in addition to that electric ghost thing? Yeah, the book of Pokémon legends was beginning to become quite lengthy.

But of course, Gen V said "hold my Casteliacone!", and gave us two legendary trios in addition to the cover legendaries, and three myhticals. 12 more legendary Pokémon in all, plus a rather disconcerting number of alternate formes. I recall discussions about how it really was too much now. So it was dialled back in Gen VI. Trio of cover legendaries, three mythicals, that's it. 6 in total. Everyone was happy with this respite of modesty...

...except the designers at Game Freak, evidently, who decided to introduce Ultra Beasts to Gen VII, legendaries in all but name and the reason why we had to adopt a new umbrella term from here on. So the generation gave us: a legendary quartet, two cover legendaries with two pre-evolutions, Necrozma (with three alternate formes), three classic Myhticals ... and 11 Ultra Beasts. Plus the edge cases of Meltan, Melmetal, Type:Null, and Silvally. 23 special Pokémon all in all.

Gen VIII was relatively modest again: The usual legendary trio, a mythical with two branching evolutions, a "classic" mythical in Zarude, two new Regis for some reason, the Crown Tundra trio, and Enamorus from PLA. That's 13.

And now, Gen IX. It's a generation I generally have a lot of positive things to say about, but holy moly does it go overboard with its special Pokémon: the four Treasures of Ruin. Two cover legendaries. The Loyal Three and their master Pecharunt. The DLC cover legends, Ogerpon and Terapagos. And ... twenty Paradox Pokémon. That's 32 Pokémon that mechanically behave akin to the original four Legendaries: they're found and caught at a high level, don't evolve, can't breed, have high stats, usually wide movepools, and powerful Abilities. As Gen IX introduced 120 Pokémon overall (so far - Legends Z-A is considered a Gen IX game), this is more than a quarter of the regional Pokédex.

I generally must say ... I don't care much for that type of Pokémon. They are, in a way, bypassing too many core aspects of the games to excite me. The essence of the series is that you catch Pokémon throughout your adventure, befriend them, train them to become stronger, and eventually you are rewarded with your Pokémon becoming more powerful through evolution and/or learning great new moves. Special Pokémon just give you an ultra-powerful Pokémon set and ready in a bundle, often with better stats than anything you can find and train through the "conventional" method. As soon as they are allowed in a battle format, they tend to absolutely dominate it, overshadowing and displacing most of the Pokémon you evolve and train and care. Granted, they are meant to be powerful and rare and such, but when there are so many of them, the upper echelons of Pokémon tend to be filled with them, only leaving room for "regular" Pokémon if they can pull off one specific gimmick better than others.

Besides, special Pokémon are meant to be, well, special, but they generally tend not to stay that way for long. In the game of their introduction, they may be the focus of a story quest and receive unique catch locations and possibly even cutscenes. But in later games, they tend to be relegated to a great, homogeneous pool of "legacy legendaries" locked behind a side quest or mechanic without fanfare. "You played the minigame and now you meet a Zekrom!" What a way to treat the revered embodiment of ideals, living deity of the Unova region. Doubly so when your playing of the minigame has net you three Zekrom already. Do it once more and catch the living embodiment of Time, or the revered being of Life, or a Sword of Justice, or what have you. Forget anything that moves in the region's grasslands or lakes or caves; to really play competitive you have to have to delve into this pantheon of gods as an entry level requirement. If you don't have a Zacian, you will be whooped by eight other trainers who all have one.

In short, legendaries and special Pokémon were once intended to be this little exclusive group of rare and powerful Pokémon, but over time their numbers have grown to the point of taking over a substantial portion of the Pokédex. This dilutes their uniqueness and pushes regular Pokémon towards irrelevance in many aspects. Yet they integrate poorly with the gameplay and aren't very engaging to use. They may be big and flashy and cool to use for promotional purposes, but I really think the number of special Pokémon has grown to become a couple order of magnitudes bigger than the games can make properly good use of.
I'm gonna defend Ultra Beasts and Paradoxes with a very simple thing that you may disagree with:

They're cool and fit the games thematically and expand the Pokemon universe in ways that are cool. Ultra Beasts being AU aliens is such a cool concept that only giving a few of them would make me feel a bit empty. Like imagine if it was Nihilego, Guzzlord and like two others max. That'd feel really tiny for what is such a huge concept.

Likewise, Paradox Pokemon are based on literal time travel. While we have had individual legendaries based on time travel before, their designs were not really "this Pokemon has time traveled" and were moreso "this Pokemon *can* time travel"; the idea of Pokemon from the distant past or future is, again, a concept that just having a short number of would not be that interesting.

The "legendary quests aren't cool anymore" thing, well that's just a scope thing. If you're gonna have legendaries in VGC you have to make them available for players, even small examples of less accessibility like Enamorus have become rallying cries of inaccessibility.

Making every legendary feel interesting with sidequests could literally be its own game, however. Waving it away as Hoopa or something bringing these Pokemon from random AUs satisfies the need for competitive play while not requiring like, deadass, an extra year of development time for the scenario writing and scripting required to make almost every legendary Pokemon have a good, worthy storyline for each one. There's just too many.

Besides, I think things like Dynamax Adventures in SWSH is actually really fun. It's basically a multiplayer Pokemon roguelike, and I kinda wish it was in SV too.
 
I think it's fine for them to not have fanfare in subsequent games. They had their time, and this is typically post game side content for collection purposes. It's a reasonable split on story/gameplay for me.

Also, putting aside their domination of battling since yeah it'd be nice if they had more extended formats were regular Pokemon had time to shine, I have heard this same exact complaint using the same exact language and reasoning ("Legendary" or "Special" used to mean something) since gen 3. The millisecond there were more than 10 of these things total, it was too many. And *32 is a lot but also like... The boat has long since sailed. Maybe it's time to accept that it's generally just a label for a set of fancier Pokemon and that you (the rhetoric, general "you" not "you" specifically) are bringing more to this label than the series cares to?

Yeah, that's fair. But it becomes a bit overwhelming when each generation brings a ton of new Pokémon specifically designed for "time to shine", and then they just become legacy baggage for the series afterwards. More on that below.

(And tbh 88's still pretty good. That's more than the entirety of Gen 6, equal to all of gen 7 and somewhere in the ballpark of Gen 8.)
Oh, definitely. It was a lot worse in Gen VII, where the number of "non-special" Pokémon was lower than ever, and a large portion of those were "archetypal" Pokémon designs that were added via checklist: gotta have the usual batch of starters, a regional bug, a regional bird, pseudo-legendaries as per usual, and then the rest of the Pokémon had to be distributed so there was at least one new family of every type, creating a lot of relatively boring two-stage families. Gen IX embraced a larger Pokédex than the preceeding generations, giving them space to feature a lot of unique "regular" Pokémon while still having a huge number of special Pokémon.


*The Paradoxes are also kind of in an odd space since outside of the 6 ""legendary"" Paradoxes (not including the capital L legendary ones...) they're all freely captureable in the crater. Even the UBs in USUM required some extra leg work. I suppose it's fitting for the gang based around not fitting in and shouldn't exist, that they're both these strong guys but also so readily available. kind of fits (though certainly unintentionally since we're not supposed to think too hard about their numbers increasing despite shutting down the machine or that we're freely using them) that they'd probably wreck the environment if they got out.

I'm gonna defend Ultra Beasts and Paradoxes with a very simple thing that you may disagree with:

They're cool and fit the games thematically and expand the Pokemon universe in ways that are cool. Ultra Beasts being AU aliens is such a cool concept that only giving a few of them would make me feel a bit empty. Like imagine if it was Nihilego, Guzzlord and like two others max. That'd feel really tiny for what is such a huge concept.

Likewise, Paradox Pokemon are based on literal time travel. While we have had individual legendaries based on time travel before, their designs were not really "this Pokemon has time traveled" and were moreso "this Pokemon *can* time travel"; the idea of Pokemon from the distant past or future is, again, a concept that just having a short number of would not be that interesting.
Replying to those two together, because they touch upon the same subject:

While Ultra Beasts and Paradox Pokémon definitely have their place and showcase their uniqueness in the lore of their debut games, they become sort of akward to fit into future titles. One issue is their lore: you can't just have them show up in any random patch of grass with no explanation (Heck, they are really too powerful to be made available outside of dedicated end-game areas anyway). Ultra Beasts come from other worlds somehow (warranting a bit of "leg work", or at least a bit of lore), Paradox Pokémon from other ages (ditto). Mechanically, they are created to suit certain game features as well. Neither Ultra Beasts nor Paradox Pokémon work well in a game if it was just one or two of them. They belong in their groups, and those are rather large groups at that. As ant4456 says, you can't have Nihilego, Guzzlord and like two others max. It's all of them or nothing, and they require a lot of fanfare to work to their full potential: Beast Balls, that past/future aspect, Ultra Wormholes, the Raidons and their abilities, Booster Energy, maybe even the various Ultra Dimensions. Creating that fanfare requires a fair bit of development resources, and is hence unlikely to happen in future games just for the sake of Pokémon that have already had their time in the limelight.

Effectively, they'll just be chucked on the pile of "legacy legendaries" and relegated to minigame prizes, like Suicune, or Uxie, or Regirock, or Tapu Bulu, or any of the other dozens of old legendaries. Being rather large groups of Pokémon, they add a lot of volume to that already-bloated pile, and they don't work to their full potential when they are just unceremoniously lumped together with all the other old special Pokémon. But alternatively, they may just be Dexited for several generations in a row, unavailable for many years because they have to take up rather a lot of space in the game to realize their "themes" properly.

Conversely, consider any regular Pokémon like Bruxish, Scovillain, or Hatenna. Does your future game need any variety in its coral reefs/deserts/forests? Just rattle the bag of old Pokémon and chuck the 'mons in wherever they fit. Give them a regional form, if you feel like it. An evolution, even a pre-evolution if spaces are available, or a branched evolution. No explanation or lore needed, as long as there's a minimum of thought to placing the Pokémon in the appropriate environment. There's a lot of flexibility with Pokémon that have no special needs, as it were, to work as intended.

Ironically, "non-special" Pokémon seem like they add more to the franchise in the long run than the "special" Pokémon, as they don't require the same amount of faff to integrate in the regular Pokémon gameplay, and blend in a lot easier without concern for lore or belonging to a "set" larger than a duo most of the time (exceptions exist, see Eevee, the Unova Monkeys, or the Hitmons). So I don't really like that special Pokémon seem to constitute an ever increasing share of Pokémon as time goes by.
 
, and a large portion of those were "archetypal" Pokémon designs that were added via checklist: gotta have the usual batch of starters, a regional bug, a regional bird, pseudo-legendaries as per usual, and then the rest of the Pokémon had to be distributed so there was at least one new family of every type, creating a lot of relatively boring two-stage families.
This is SO not true. Gen 7 is one of the least guilty generations with "archetypal Pokemon". It's also one of the best dexes if not the best one.

While Ultra Beasts and Paradox Pokémon definitely have their place and showcase their uniqueness in the lore of their debut games, they become sort of akward to fit into future titles. One issue is their lore: you can't just have them show up in any random patch of grass with no explanation (Heck, they are really too powerful to be made available outside of dedicated end-game areas anyway). Ultra Beasts come from other worlds somehow (warranting a bit of "leg work", or at least a bit of lore), Paradox Pokémon from other ages (ditto). Mechanically, they are created to suit certain game features as well. Neither Ultra Beasts nor Paradox Pokémon work well in a game if it was just one or two of them. They belong in their groups, and those are rather large groups at that. As ant4456 says, you can't have Nihilego, Guzzlord and like two others max. It's all of them or nothing, and they require a lot of fanfare to work to their full potential: Beast Balls, that past/future aspect, Ultra Wormholes, the Raidons and their abilities, Booster Energy, maybe even the various Ultra Dimensions. Creating that fanfare requires a fair bit of development resources, and is hence unlikely to happen in future games just for the sake of Pokémon that have already had their time in the limelight.

Effectively, they'll just be chucked on the pile of "legacy legendaries" and relegated to minigame prizes, like Suicune, or Uxie, or Regirock, or Tapu Bulu, or any of the other dozens of old legendaries. Being rather large groups of Pokémon, they add a lot of volume to that already-bloated pile, and they don't work to their full potential when they are just unceremoniously lumped together with all the other old special Pokémon. But alternatively, they may just be Dexited for several generations in a row, unavailable for many years because they have to take up rather a lot of space in the game to realize their "themes" properly.
I don't mind any of this, and as an Eeveelution fan I've already considered that my Pokemon requiring 8 Pokemon of a dex is actually fairly unreasonable in of itself.

Like, it's fine. If Pokemon don't make it its fine. My favorites won't make it in every time and that's fine. That is just part of Dexit. If anything, I think how SV DLC did it is kinda cringe. "Every Legendary" in SWSH already felt like it took enough of that DLC's dex, and now they had to do "Every Starter" too and I think that is just annoying. So much of the dex is just Starters + Legendaries and when I look at a lot of types it feels like SV doesn't have that many of them, the balance is a lot further off than it was *when the game began*, because we have to add a bunch of Grass Fire Waters.
 
Yeah, that's fair. But it becomes a bit overwhelming when each generation brings a ton of new Pokémon specifically designed for "time to shine", and then they just become legacy baggage for the series afterwards. More on that below.


Oh, definitely. It was a lot worse in Gen VII, where the number of "non-special" Pokémon was lower than ever, and a large portion of those were "archetypal" Pokémon designs that were added via checklist: gotta have the usual batch of starters, a regional bug, a regional bird, pseudo-legendaries as per usual, and then the rest of the Pokémon had to be distributed so there was at least one new family of every type, creating a lot of relatively boring two-stage families. Gen IX embraced a larger Pokédex than the preceeding generations, giving them space to feature a lot of unique "regular" Pokémon while still having a huge number of special Pokémon.





Replying to those two together, because they touch upon the same subject:

While Ultra Beasts and Paradox Pokémon definitely have their place and showcase their uniqueness in the lore of their debut games, they become sort of akward to fit into future titles. One issue is their lore: you can't just have them show up in any random patch of grass with no explanation (Heck, they are really too powerful to be made available outside of dedicated end-game areas anyway). Ultra Beasts come from other worlds somehow (warranting a bit of "leg work", or at least a bit of lore), Paradox Pokémon from other ages (ditto). Mechanically, they are created to suit certain game features as well. Neither Ultra Beasts nor Paradox Pokémon work well in a game if it was just one or two of them. They belong in their groups, and those are rather large groups at that. As ant4456 says, you can't have Nihilego, Guzzlord and like two others max. It's all of them or nothing, and they require a lot of fanfare to work to their full potential: Beast Balls, that past/future aspect, Ultra Wormholes, the Raidons and their abilities, Booster Energy, maybe even the various Ultra Dimensions. Creating that fanfare requires a fair bit of development resources, and is hence unlikely to happen in future games just for the sake of Pokémon that have already had their time in the limelight.

Effectively, they'll just be chucked on the pile of "legacy legendaries" and relegated to minigame prizes, like Suicune, or Uxie, or Regirock, or Tapu Bulu, or any of the other dozens of old legendaries. Being rather large groups of Pokémon, they add a lot of volume to that already-bloated pile, and they don't work to their full potential when they are just unceremoniously lumped together with all the other old special Pokémon. But alternatively, they may just be Dexited for several generations in a row, unavailable for many years because they have to take up rather a lot of space in the game to realize their "themes" properly.

Conversely, consider any regular Pokémon like Bruxish, Scovillain, or Hatenna. Does your future game need any variety in its coral reefs/deserts/forests? Just rattle the bag of old Pokémon and chuck the 'mons in wherever they fit. Give them a regional form, if you feel like it. An evolution, even a pre-evolution if spaces are available, or a branched evolution. No explanation or lore needed, as long as there's a minimum of thought to placing the Pokémon in the appropriate environment. There's a lot of flexibility with Pokémon that have no special needs, as it were, to work as intended.

Ironically, "non-special" Pokémon seem like they add more to the franchise in the long run than the "special" Pokémon, as they don't require the same amount of faff to integrate in the regular Pokémon gameplay, and blend in a lot easier without concern for lore or belonging to a "set" larger than a duo most of the time (exceptions exist, see Eevee, the Unova Monkeys, or the Hitmons). So I don't really like that special Pokémon seem to constitute an ever increasing share of Pokémon as time goes by.
Unironically this would not be a problem or at the very least it would be seriously mitigated if they just - say it with me now - RERELEASED THEIR DAMN BACKLOG! Jamming in old legendaries in new games and disrupting the flow of the worldbuilding would not be a design priority because they could just validly say "Do you like Ho-Oh and the Johto beasts? Play HGSS, now on Nintendo Switch Online DS!"

It's unreal how much more clean of a game Legends Arceus felt like for not sparing any thought on this stuff. All they added were the Forces of Nature, not to fulfill some arbitrary checklist but because they fit Hisui and they added a new member to the pile!
 
This is SO not true. Gen 7 is one of the least guilty generations with "archetypal Pokemon". It's also one of the best dexes if not the best one.
Gen 9, you mean? Gen 7 had legendaries and archetypes galore, and very little else. I tend to look at the metric of three-stage evolution families that aren't starters, regional bugs, regional birds, or pseudo-legendaries. A great dex has room for many of those. Gen 7 had only one (Bounsweet), the lowest among all generations to date. Gen 9 had several, though, and was a great dex overall (a smidge below Gen V, perhaps, which featured a non-archetypal three-stage evolution family of every type).

"Every Legendary" in SWSH already felt like it took enough of that DLC's dex, and now they had to do "Every Starter" too and I think that is just annoying. So much of the dex is just Starters + Legendaries and when I look at a lot of types it feels like SV doesn't have that many of them, the balance is a lot further off than it was *when the game began*, because we have to add a bunch of Grass Fire Waters.
This is exactly what I mean. That's the baggage of accumulated legendaries over time: when a game tries to feature all of them at once, there isn't much room for anything else, namely the non-special Pokémon that aren't starters.
 
Conversely, consider any regular Pokémon like Bruxish, Scovillain, or Hatenna. Does your future game need any variety in its coral reefs/deserts/forests? Just rattle the bag of old Pokémon and chuck the 'mons in wherever they fit. Give them a regional form, if you feel like it. An evolution, even a pre-evolution if spaces are available, or a branched evolution. No explanation or lore needed, as long as there's a minimum of thought to placing the Pokémon in the appropriate environment. There's a lot of flexibility with Pokémon that have no special needs, as it were, to work as intended.
I feel I have something of the opposite stance on this. The UBs and Paradoxes are important because they encourage showing stranger environments than a standard biome with its wandering monster table already filled out. My ideal would be to have a game where we still have some of these styles of designs but they don't need to be contained to isolated pockets because the region is itself exotic enough to handle them (Paradoxes as regional forms?), but even having a glimpse of their habitats is better than having the postgame area be just another forest.
 
I feel I have something of the opposite stance on this. The UBs and Paradoxes are important because they encourage showing stranger environments than a standard biome with its wandering monster table already filled out. My ideal would be to have a game where we still have some of these styles of designs but they don't need to be contained to isolated pockets because the region is itself exotic enough to handle them (Paradoxes as regional forms?), but even having a glimpse of their habitats is better than having the postgame area be just another forest.
On one hand, yes, but on the other, there has historically been quite a gap between encouragement and execution. Several legendary Pokémon are associated with unique environments, that were nowhere to be seen in their appearances beyond their debut games (and their remakes). You don't see Lugia swimming the great depths these days, it is just chucked into a Dynamax Den or a generic Ultra Space Water World that it shares with eight other legendaries. Shaymin doesn't come with a floral meadow anymore, it comes with the mailman in Mystery Gift. The Kami trio didn't get their shrines again after Gen V. And so on. Chances are, they won't make Ultra Space worlds for the Ultra Beasts again, they will be battled in a generic location like all the other legendaries. At best, that generic location will be somewhat themed to suit the Ultra Beast in question, but also used for a dozen other legendary or special Pokémon. With 121 special Pokémon between the games so far (not counting alternate forms), the amount of attention they can give each individual one outside of its debut game is very little, and not likely to improve over time.
 
Unironically this would not be a problem or at the very least it would be seriously mitigated if they just - say it with me now - RERELEASED THEIR DAMN BACKLOG! Jamming in old legendaries in new games and disrupting the flow of the worldbuilding would not be a design priority because they could just validly say "Do you like Ho-Oh and the Johto beasts? Play HGSS, now on Nintendo Switch Online DS!"

It's unreal how much more clean of a game Legends Arceus felt like for not sparing any thought on this stuff. All they added were the Forces of Nature, not to fulfill some arbitrary checklist but because they fit Hisui and they added a new member to the pile!
They're already doing this in SV and it is also the worst part about its (otherwise pretty cute, honestly) "legendary hunt"
A chunk of them are (somewhat haphazardly & arbitraily) only found in the other Switch games. It kind of sucks.
 
Unironically this would not be a problem or at the very least it would be seriously mitigated if they just - say it with me now - RERELEASED THEIR DAMN BACKLOG!
Naw this is a bad take. Having to buy other games to get the Pokemon is cringe. People already rightfully shit on the few legendaries that you need from games on the Switch, because that's just really dumb.

Jamming in old legendaries in new games and disrupting the flow of the worldbuilding would not be a design priority because they could just validly say "Do you like Ho-Oh and the Johto beasts? Play HGSS, now on Nintendo Switch Online DS!"
So true, just pay the extra money to get this mon for VGC! This is totally a better solution!

It's unreal how much more clean of a game Legends Arceus felt like for not sparing any thought on this stuff. All they added were the Forces of Nature, not to fulfill some arbitrary checklist but because they fit Hisui and they added a new member to the pile!
That's because it literally doesn't have competitive battles. Like. Obviously? Because it doesn't need them for gameplay reasons?

I think you're missing the point of why these Legendaries come back. The point isn't ""Do you like Ho-Oh and the Johto beasts?", it's "Legendaries are part of our competitive format so we need them to be there". This is a gameplay problem, not about letting Little Timmy play with their favorite legendary. The Starters in SV DLC2 are a Little Timmy thing.
 
Naw this is a bad take. Having to buy other games to get the Pokemon is cringe. People already rightfully shit on the few legendaries that you need from games on the Switch, because that's just really dumb.


So true, just pay the extra money to get this mon for VGC! This is totally a better solution!


That's because it literally doesn't have competitive battles. Like. Obviously? Because it doesn't need them for gameplay reasons?

I think you're missing the point of why these Legendaries come back. The point isn't ""Do you like Ho-Oh and the Johto beasts?", it's "Legendaries are part of our competitive format so we need them to be there". This is a gameplay problem, not about letting Little Timmy play with their favorite legendary. The Starters in SV DLC2 are a Little Timmy thing.
But WHY does VGC need every single or nearly every single legendary? I'm sure you can run a perfectly cromulent restricted format that doesn't require literally all of them other than the Kalos mascots, the Tapus and UBs. If Gen 10 "only" adds the Johto, Sinnoh, Kalos and Galar big names, are the VGCers gonna seriously start whining about the lack of Kyogre and Miraidon?
 
But WHY does VGC need every single or nearly every single legendary? I'm sure you can run a perfectly cromulent restricted format that doesn't require literally all of them other than the Kalos mascots, the Tapus and UBs. If Gen 10 "only" adds the Johto, Sinnoh, Kalos and Galar big names, are the VGCers gonna seriously start whining about the lack of Kyogre and Miraidon?
They don't need every legendary, they need enough to justify the format. As you said they already don't have Every Single Legendary in SV, and that's fine because there is still a shit ton that can justify it as a format.

The point is to make a massive selection of normally banned Pokemon unbanned. It's gonna have to be a good amount to be interesting. Either way, the questioning here to me is still so weird:

Why not? The complaint here is ultimately extremely tiny. Having gameplay reasons over lore reasons is fine and it's been like this for a decade. It's not a big deal, and it continues the tradition.
 
Looking at the recoil move table due to Wild Charge discussion again and....how is Take Down's accuracy still 85% after all these years? It was already a move you'd rather not be using, 85% is just awful. The only moves worse than it are Submission (probably in the running for Worst Move and also is removed from the game) and Shadow End (which isn't even really a move!)
 
Replying to those two together, because they touch upon the same subject:

While Ultra Beasts and Paradox Pokémon definitely have their place and showcase their uniqueness in the lore of their debut games, they become sort of akward to fit into future titles. One issue is their lore: you can't just have them show up in any random patch of grass with no explanation (Heck, they are really too powerful to be made available outside of dedicated end-game areas anyway). Ultra Beasts come from other worlds somehow (warranting a bit of "leg work", or at least a bit of lore), Paradox Pokémon from other ages (ditto). Mechanically, they are created to suit certain game features as well. Neither Ultra Beasts nor Paradox Pokémon work well in a game if it was just one or two of them. They belong in their groups, and those are rather large groups at that. As ant4456 says, you can't have Nihilego, Guzzlord and like two others max. It's all of them or nothing, and they require a lot of fanfare to work to their full potential: Beast Balls, that past/future aspect, Ultra Wormholes, the Raidons and their abilities, Booster Energy, maybe even the various Ultra Dimensions. Creating that fanfare requires a fair bit of development resources, and is hence unlikely to happen in future games just for the sake of Pokémon that have already had their time in the limelight.
Okay so I know what you actually mean with this, but I find it funny because the UB's in their debut gam were specifically a concern BECAUSE they were suddenly popping up in random Grass Patches and you had to contain them, so theoretically that could be their excuse for them (or Paradoxes) showing up in later games: "I've been seeing weird Donphan at X location, can you see about those?", in a manner akin to how they're doing the old Legendaries in SV funnily enough.

Since the Paradoxes/UB's don't really have a place in the world, they could more easily just drop them in with a blanket explanation than the individual legendaries who have lore that comes into question with "why are you here and not in your own region?" compared to even the old Hoopa Wormhole method in ORAS for example
 
I think part of the issue is that Gamefreak seems to refuse to differentiate between the roughly 5 groups of legendary mons. UBs and Paradox mons, over base 600 legendaries(box legendaries), lower than 600 legendaries, base-600 mythicals, non-base-600 mythicals. Each of those has a different power level, should be allowed in different formats for VGC, occupies a different space in the lore, and requires a different level of support. But GF either shovels them all into the same bonus mode or ignores them completely. If they want them to be relevant(and the repeated VGCs allowing restricted legendaries say they do), then it would be nice for GF to put some effort into figuring out that they aren't all similar to each other.
 
As hype as Megas are supposedly returning in Legends: Z-A, I do have a bad feeling about the fact that GF can potentially butch it by worsening the negative aspects of Mega Evolutions.

What do I mean? There’s already issues regarding Mega Evolution as-is, which are already talked about but I bring them here anyways as reminders, in that being:
  • Potential item bloat: Unless there will be a dedicated Mega Stone pocket for the bag, the increasing amount of Mega Stones might be concerning, to say the least, as it can make it even more tedious to search for one specific Mega Stone within Battle Items / general items. It’s bad enough to try search for a specific Mega Stone in the bag back in ORAS.
  • Favorites over Pokémon that needed it: If mostly fan favorites (or VGC favorties) get a Mega Evolution over Pokémon that are seriously lagging behind, it might not only makes obsolete Pokémon even more obsolete, but also plays too much into favoritism. Or worse, if only Pokémon that are notable VGC assets gets a Mega…
    • Not to mention that GF might go as far as giving a third Mega Evolution to Charizard and / or Mewtwo, or a second Mega to a Pokémon that already have one, worsening the favoritism issue.
  • Competition on Mega Slot: Mega Evolution, as-is, only allows one Mega per team, period. This makes new Megas run the risk of either worsening the power creep, or unable to compete with the best of best (non-legendary) Megas.
  • Breaking In-Game Difficulty in half (and then some): Not a lot of trainers have the luxury of using Mega Evolution to begin with, not even most Gym Leaders rather jarringly. Because of that, it’s all too easy to just spam our Mega and watch it sweep stuff. If Mega Evolution will still be allowed to be used against trainers with no Megas, this issue will likely to stay.
Mega Evolution play a huge part of Kalos’ lore, so I hope Game Freak is aware of these issues and try to iron out at least some of it.
 
So it was dialled back in Gen VI. Trio of cover legendaries, three mythicals, that's it. 6 in total. Everyone was happy with this respite of modesty...

...except the designers at Game Freak, evidently, who decided to introduce Ultra Beasts to Gen VII, legendaries in all but name and the reason why we had to adopt a new umbrella term from here on.

This is just not true. There was a lot of negative feedback regarding the lack of both new regular and special Pokemon. Something akin to “three legendaries, thats it?” Legendary and special Pokemon are really, what the people want. They’re always excited to talk about them and they always have much hype.



I generally must say ... I don't care much for that type of Pokémon. They are, in a way, bypassing too many core aspects of the games to excite me. The essence of the series is that you catch Pokémon throughout your adventure, befriend them, train them to become stronger, and eventually you are rewarded with your Pokémon becoming more powerful through evolution and/or learning great new moves. Special Pokémon just give you an ultra-powerful Pokémon set and ready in a bundle, often with better stats than anything you can find and train through the "conventional" method.

This is why they are almost always (some exceptions such as Victini, Kubfu/Urshifu and Ogerpon) locked to the endgame/postgame. Even in Scarlet and Violet you don’t actually go to Area Zero and have Paradoxes available until after you’ve finished all 3 main quests.


Besides, special Pokémon are meant to be, well, special, but they generally tend not to stay that way for long. In the game of their introduction, they may be the focus of a story quest and receive unique catch locations and possibly even cutscenes. But in later games, they tend to be relegated to a great, homogeneous pool of "legacy legendaries" locked behind a side quest or mechanic without fanfare. "You played the minigame and now you meet a Zekrom!" What a way to treat the revered embodiment of ideals, living deity of the Unova region. Doubly so when your playing of the minigame has net you three Zekrom already. Do it once more and catch the living embodiment of Time, or the revered being of Life, or a Sword of Justice, or what have you.

The other option is excluding most/all from the new games and relying on only the new Pokemon, or making them transfer only. I think we all know which is more preferable. Personally, I think they’ve done well with the minigames, I enjoyed Ultra Space and Snacksworth (I didn’t do many Dynamax Adventures, and I really didn’t play a lot of ORAS). I preferred Snacksworth because while it was luck the order they came in they were all guaranteed at a point. But then again the Ultra Space is one that will keep you coming back to play the minigame more and more.

As soon as they are allowed in a battle format, they tend to absolutely dominate it, overshadowing and displacing most of the Pokémon you evolve and train and care.

Forget anything that moves in the region's grasslands or lakes or caves; to really play competitive you have to have to delve into this pantheon of gods as an entry level requirement. If you don't have a Zacian, you will be whooped by eight other trainers who all have one.

There has always been a disconnect between competitive and casual Pokemon; there always will be. I don’t recall but iirc competitive itself didn’t really take off online til Gen 3, and then VGC came as an official competition in Gen 4. I don’t think at any point people were using Pokemon they caught and trained in a regular playthrough, their stats wouldn’t be optimised. Its always been a seperate thing. Now, they actually have made inroads to make that possible with Mints, Ability Patches/Capsules, Bottle Caps and Fresh Start Mochi. Some Pokemon are always going to be more dominant, some are Legendaries etc, then some can be Incineroar who you may have trained from the start. But again, its a disconnect from ingame play and should be treated as such.
 
As hype as Megas are supposedly returning in Legends: Z-A, I do have a bad feeling about the fact that GF can potentially butch it by worsening the negative aspects of Mega Evolutions.

What do I mean? There’s already issues regarding Mega Evolution as-is, which are already talked about but I bring them here anyways as reminders, in that being:
  • Potential item bloat: Unless there will be a dedicated Mega Stone pocket for the bag, the increasing amount of Mega Stones might be concerning, to say the least, as it can make it even more tedious to search for one specific Mega Stone within Battle Items / general items. It’s bad enough to try search for a specific Mega Stone in the bag back in ORAS.
This one I think will wind up with a dedicated slot. They've gotten slightly (SLIGHTLY) better about bag categories over the years and Mega Stones are so easy to segregate into their own slot. Wouldn't surprise me if Z-A makes a point to want you to get all the Mega Evolutions, so having a slot for it would make sense too.
  • Favorites over Pokémon that needed it: If mostly fan favorites (or VGC favorties) get a Mega Evolution over Pokémon that are seriously lagging behind, it might not only makes obsolete Pokémon even more obsolete, but also plays too much into favoritism. Or worse, if only Pokémon that are notable VGC assets gets a Mega…
    • Not to mention that GF might go as far as giving a third Mega Evolution to Charizard and / or Mewtwo, or a second Mega to a Pokémon that already have one, worsening the favoritism issue.
The original set of megas were, despite grumbling, really all over the place. You had popular Pokemon, Pokemon who didn't need it, Pokemon who did "need" it & a suite of complete randos all in between. I imagine any new megas here will follow.

  • Competition on Mega Slot: Mega Evolution, as-is, only allows one Mega per team, period. This makes new Megas run the risk of either worsening the power creep, or unable to compete with the best of best (non-legendary) Megas.
  • Breaking In-Game Difficulty in half (and then some): Not a lot of trainers have the luxury of using Mega Evolution to begin with, not even most Gym Leaders rather jarringly. Because of that, it’s all too easy to just spam our Mega and watch it sweep stuff. If Mega Evolution will still be allowed to be used against trainers with no Megas, this issue will likely to stay.
Mega Evolution play a huge part of Kalos’ lore, so I hope Game Freak is aware of these issues and try to iron out at least some of it.
Both of these things I think just don't matter.
There's always going to be megas better than the others. There's genuinely nothing they can do to not make "who will get the mega" a "either use who you want to use, or use the optimal fit" situation.

And likewise I see them doing nothing with breaking it in half. It's super dependent on the Pokemon you are using & if you even want to use mega evolution.
When I ran through XY I used no megas mostly on the back of only using Gen 6 pokemon, though I probably wouldn't have used them anyway since I just didn't care to.
When I ran through ORAS, I did use a few megas (Sceptile, Sableye, Manectric I believe) and honestly didn't mind the difficulty curve. The megas I happened to have access to were strong and a step up from their OGs, but they weren't stomping everything. Still had an interesting set of friction.
I had friends go through XY & use Mega Lucario & Mega Ampharos and so on and just enjoy blasting through everything with their busted dog.

I've had a lot of back & forths on difficulty in this series, but with megas specifically, even when they hand you a gun on a silver platter ultimately you still have to decide if you want to even use it. I think it's fine to let someone choose to do so if they find it fun rather than cater the game around needing to use it or rebalancing everything to be barely a step up.


Then there's the whole side issue of "what is the primary style of battle Z-A even will have" and "will megas even show up in a regular game after this". There's a sequel to this post that's akin to "the pokemon that needed it got it but now loses it the moment megas leave" or "the pokemon got it but its not a regular evolution so you NEED to use the mega" (& by sequel i mean prequel because we've gone through this discussion since megas happened)
 
This is just not true. There was a lot of negative feedback regarding the lack of both new regular and special Pokemon. Something akin to “three legendaries, thats it?” Legendary and special Pokemon are really, what the people want. They’re always excited to talk about them and they always have much hype.
This can also be a result of the experience potentially having much more time in the postgame/online. An earlygame mon probably isn't going to be able to make a showing in competitive/high-level raids/etc. (those that do usually rely on tools that you won't have much access to during a playthrough), while it's hard to be outright awful with 570+BST. Like, as much as I like Revavroom, it's not sticking as a core introduction of gen 9 because I'm not doing much in restricted RU where it's prominent. And most other long-term formats don't have the lower power rulesets that 6v6 singles does.
 
I need to catch up so I may be replying to what I have seen, sorry if I misunderstood thr concept.

Anyways, I have SWSH annoyances.

  1. Based on my brother's experience seeing Zacian: I know we rightfully make fun of Lugia' confusing Psychic type, but as much as I love the wolf duo's designs, they kind of do a terrible job of getting their types across. Why is Zamazenta Fighting but not Zacian? Sure, out of universe we can say it's because of their respective inspirations, but they look so similar without their armaments -to the point they are even suggested to be siblings- that it's no wonder it can be baffling to some people at first glance. I know we are never getting a third wolf as it wouldn't work with the themes, but I do wonder what type that hypothetical may have had. Electric?
  2. Crown Tundra annoyance: I learned that you can't fight the fused Calyrex until you are Champion, but you can get to it. Let me explain.
    It's only the sympthom of a greater problem, that is the SWSH's DLC having nothing to do with either the base game or between them story-wise, in contrast to the SV ones which I find better overall. So, it makes sense you can do stuff in them whenever you want despite the post-game levels...but using that very same logic, you should be able to catch Calyrex. In the Indigo Disk, you can access the Terrarium (already weird on its own as Carmine doesn't know you, but alright) but you can't progress in the story which makes perfect sense as Kieran is not Champion yet, and everything revolves around that. Similarly, you can't do the Terapagos stuff because it needs everything else to happen: the AI being no more, the Teal Mask, Kieran losing to you again. In the Crown Tundra, it arbitrary decides you are not "strong enough" to face Calyrex...right at the moment you have it in front of you. Why? Either block the entire sidestory to post game, or allow it on its entirety. Calyrex is not exactly an amazing "finale" to the game anyways- it only has vaguely implied lore with Eternatus, despite the issues with Terapagos and Pecharunt they are way more important to the overall game. It just feels so artificial for no reason. If they didn’t want people to speedrun getting Calyrex, just don't allow the story to be completed or use a more natural roadblock.

    I know it isn't something that will ever come up in a natural playthrough for most people, but well, it is a little annoyance.
They're already doing this in SV and it is also the worst part about its (otherwise pretty cute, honestly) "legendary hunt"
A chunk of them are (somewhat haphazardly & arbitraily) only found in the other Switch games. It kind of sucks.
It was disheartening to not see Calyrex being anywhere. It's a brand new gen, even if is still on the same console! Let's go the USUM route and let you catch legendaries without worrying who is in what game.

I'm not asking them to add all the legendaries again as that was Crown Tundra's whole ordeal, not the Indigo Disk, but allowing the horses to make the cut while Calyrex didn't is way too obvious that they still care about getting more CT sales just for Calyrex. But no one should have to buy an entire game/dlc for a non-mythical mon. Or just do as Yung Dramps suggested and release ways for us to catch and transfer the mons we want.

LA didn't care about that bs and it was much better that way. But now it seems SV even considered ZA when cutting out the Aura Trio
 
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