(Little) Things that annoy you in Pokémon

[R_N]

But no one should have to buy an entire game/dlc for a non-mythical mon. Or just do as Yung Dramps suggested and release ways for us to catch and transfer the mons we want.

This is kind of a really funny way of putting this. "You shouldn't have to buy a game. You should just be able to buy a game!"
Like, that is the situation we are in here! If you want the 6 Regi, the wolves, Eternatus, Calyrex, the Galarian Birds, technicallycosmog&cosmoem, the forces of nature, all the other DP legends...strictly speaking if you want Mewtwo & Dialga/Palkia but missed their raids (I'm a little more lenient on these 3), too. You gotta buy SWSH + the DLC* &/or LA depending on what you want (BDSP also an alternative option for the older legends).

To me the thing that makes it annoying isn't the need to get another game it's that those Pokemon are "in the game" and there is a provided method to obtain the assorted Legendary pokemon, but only some of them when traditionally it's all of them*. It's like the moment they had cross-generational transfers that wiped movesets they immediately stoped caring and just picked an assortment of Pokemon. If they had the moveset wipe implemented to begin with, I can easily envision them doing the same thing in Gens 6-8 (8 did sort of implement it but much later on).

Ideally they'd do more raids but after all this time I doubt that happens.


*In some manner of fairness, while Calyrex is probably "the big one" you'd buy it for, SWSH+ The DLC does give you access to literally everyone but Enamorus (& an extra Kubfu).
**Although to be clear I don't particularly care that they decided not to literally have EVERY Legend back. Cutting the UBs, Tapu & Kalos box legends is...fine. A little odd, but whatever. It's not like they're there.

 

[DrrT]

This is kind of a really funny way of putting this. "You shouldn't have to buy a game. You should just be able to buy a game!"
Like, that is the situation we are in here! If you want the 6 Regi, the wolves, Eternatus, Calyrex, the Galarian Birds, technicallycosmog&cosmoem, the forces of nature, all the other DP legends...strictly speaking if you want Mewtwo & Dialga/Palkia but missed their raids (I'm a little more lenient on these 3), too. You gotta buy SWSH + the DLC* &/or LA depending on what you want (BDSP also an alternative option for the older legends).

To me the thing that makes it annoying isn't the need to get another game it's that those Pokemon are "in the game" and there is a provided method to obtain the assorted Legendary pokemon, but only some of them when traditionally it's all of them*. It's like the moment they had cross-generational transfers that wiped movesets they immediately stoped caring and just picked an assortment of Pokemon. If they had the moveset wipe implemented to begin with, I can easily envision them doing the same thing in Gens 6-8 (8 did sort of implement it but much later on).

Ideally they'd do more raids but after all this time I doubt that happens.


*In some manner of fairness, while Calyrex is probably "the big one" you'd buy it for, SWSH+ The DLC does give you access to literally everyone but Enamorus (& an extra Kubfu).
**Although to be clear I don't particularly care that they decided not to literally have EVERY Legend back. Cutting the UBs, Tapu & Kalos box legends is...fine. A little odd, but whatever. It's not like they're there.

Raids could have been the perfect way to give us the Regis, the Kantonian birds and maybe even an event where you can use Calyrex against the horses so it gets a Mightiest Mark (trough that already would be mythical treatment...). Just fix the avaliability problems.

 

[ant4456]

talking about SV got me getting on the game to try to complete the indigo dex bc I did the DLC1 dex but never the DLC2 dex

this is perhaps the DLC that will age the most horrible. wow this is fucking bad. I need 3k BP per biome to increase the biodiversity. I spent 30m grinding BP through quests and I got around 400 BP.

this feels like the least singleplayer friendly Pokemon mechanic since like... ever. I mean I'm down to do multiplayer but realistically almost a year out, how many people are actually pro bono grinding this much BP. what about people in 5 years, 10 years, even further?

 

[DrrT]

The way they announced "hey all starters are here" knowing they locked behind BBP farming was a pretty low move. Same with the trailer that implied we would learn more about Hearh's expedition. The marketing around ID feels kind of "dishonest" in a way of you ask me.

 

[ant4456]

The way they announced "hey all starters are here" knowing they locked behind BBP farming was a pretty low move. Same with the trailer that implied we would learn more about Hearh's expedition. The marketing around ID feels kind of "dishonest" in a way of you ask me.

To be clear I'm not even rlly going for the starters specifically (I didn't even know it was only for the Starters? Is that wym? I just felt like Pokemon in general felt really sparse and assumed legendaries was locked behind it, too), I literally just want the Pokedex LOL

 

[DrrT]

To be clear I'm not even rlly going for the starters specifically (I didn't even know it was only for the Starters? Is that wym? I just felt like Pokemon in general felt really sparse and assumed legendaries was locked behind it, too), I literally just want the Pokedex LOL

Not sure if it counts as a spoiler but just so you don't get disappointed, yeah is for the starters. For the legendaries you need to talk to the Chiquito de la Calzada-looking guy who only appears after catching Terapagos (I think Briar mentions him to you).

So both starters and legendaries need BP farming, but in different ways.

 

[DreamPrince]

If they don't make the new pokemon (on average) stronger, then people will not use them in competitive play.
If they aren't used, they're not exposed to the public and don't become popular.
If they're not popular, then people won't buy the sidegames (or older games) to get them to move them in current generations (yes yes i know VGC players will gen them anyway, that's beside the point) and people

While I can understand and agree that Powercreep is bound to happen in a game with over a thousand characters, I doubt that VGC has any a huge influence on which Pokémon become popular. VGC has only really recently started to become mainstream, and even now there are a bunch of Pokémon that are popular despite powercreep, like Yamper for example who sells plushies.

 

[Hugin]

1. Based on my brother's experience seeing Zacian: I know we rightfully make fun of Lugia' confusing Psychic type, but as much as I love the wolf duo's designs, they kind of do a terrible job of getting their types across. Why is Zamazenta Fighting but not Zacian? Sure, out of universe we can say it's because of their respective inspirations, but they look so similar without their armaments -to the point they are even suggested to be siblings- that it's no wonder it can be baffling to some people at first glance. I know we are never getting a third wolf as it wouldn't work with the themes, but I do wonder what type that hypothetical may have had. Electric?

Their typings are just weird in general. Shield is Fighting, Sword is Fairy, and the items for both add Steel? None of that is logical. I mean, I get why the Rusted Sword and Rusted Shield both add Steel, but that's terrible in every respect.

First off, the wolves are nearly identical and described as siblings. They should have the same base type*. Then, when you add an item to add a type, the shield should get Steel, and the sword should get Fighting. The current setup just doesn't work for me.

*Preferably something uncommon for Legendaries because OMG is Fairy/Psychic/Dragon boring. Normal? Grass?

 

[candyandcotty]

In gen 1, Bite is a physical move.
In gen 2 & 3, it's a special move.
In gen 4 through 9, it's a physical move.

This can be kind of confusing for people like me who like to replay the older games.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

In gen 1, Bite is a physical move.
In gen 2 & 3, it's a special move.
In gen 4 through 9, it's a physical move.

This can be kind of confusing for people like me who like to replay the older games.

I may be misremembering but I'm pretty sure that every single Dark move pre-Gen IV turned physical in the transition. ...why wasn't Dark always a physical type?

 

[Worldie]

I may be misremembering but I'm pretty sure that every single Dark move pre-Gen IV turned physical in the transition. ...why wasn't Dark always a physical type?

Most likely as the main purpose of dark type was to be the big fuck you to psychic types so they wanted it to be special like them.


I also assume they wanted Dark to be the coverage of choice for psychics to deal with opposing psychics (ghost was physical so not a great option)

 

[Ironmage]

I may be misremembering but I'm pretty sure that every single Dark move pre-Gen IV turned physical in the transition. ...why wasn't Dark always a physical type?

They probably wanted to distance it from Ghost since they had the same offensive profile. Ghost was physical because the only move it had in gen 1 that used the damage formula was Lick. Though considering Gen 2 also introduced Shadow Ball which would be the iconic Ghost move going forward, it can definitely feel like the two should have been swapped in retrospect.

 

[Blue glass]

I thought it was some kind of nerfing for Ghost and Dark as they couldn't rely on their STAB as their most powerful move because the former generally has Sp. Atk > Atk and the later generally has Atk > Sp. Atk.

 

[Faux Focalors Furina]

After seeing a few discussions about SV, I would like to throw my hat into the ring by saying how the true ending (or secret lore/plot twist) you get is completely out of nowhere.

The Secret Ending/Plot Twist

Is how Terapagos somehow brought professor Sada/Turo (the real ones, not the AI) on top of the Kitakami mountains that has the terastal energy as they used their time machine. They then reveal after our short conversation on how the whole story is a paradox within itself as we handed him the Hidden Treasure of Area Zero book given by Briar and then he bids us farewell as he disappears back into the mist as I assume Terapagos's energy is fading away and we go back to our title screen.

I honestly loved the open book ending and giving the main core of the game with paradox and whatnot, and not make it like a gimmick but an integral part to the game/lore. But the FACT that there was no hints (or not so obvious ones) to reveal/activate that shocking plot twist true ending is what annoys me. Honestly sad how not many or the majority of SV players will see this through their own gameplay and only see it when they get spoiled by those no commentary youtubers by accident (I.E. Mixeli and others)

 

[R_N]

After seeing a few discussions about SV, I would like to throw my hat into the ring by saying how the true ending (or secret lore/plot twist) you get is completely out of nowhere.

The Secret Ending/Plot Twist

Is how Terapagos somehow brought professor Sada/Turo (the real ones, not the AI) on top of the Kitakami mountains that has the terastal energy as they used their time machine. They then reveal after our short conversation on how the whole story is a paradox within itself as we handed him the Hidden Treasure of Area Zero book given by Briar and then he bids us farewell as he disappears back into the mist as I assume Terapagos's energy is fading away and we go back to our title screen.

I honestly loved the open book ending and giving the main core of the game with paradox and whatnot, and not make it like a gimmick but an integral part to the game/lore. But the FACT that there was no hints (or not so obvious ones) to reveal/activate that shocking plot twist true ending is what annoys me. Honestly sad how not many or the majority of SV players will see this through their own gameplay and only see it when they get spoiled by those no commentary youtubers by accident (I.E. Mixeli and others)

There is a hint, if you investigate the documents Briar was looking at in the underdepths, it points you to it.

I think having it be something you only find by exploration (either by investigating the documents on your own, or just by your own drive to look around the world for other things) was an interesting choice for it.

 

[Faux Focalors Furina]

There is a hint, if you investigate the documents Briar was looking at in the underdepths, it points you to it.

I think having it be something you only find by exploration (either by investigating the documents on your own, or just by your own drive to look around the world for other things) was an interesting choice for it.

I guess yeah, but like it feels like to me as a major plot point/twist for the whole game and they only leave it to those curious? I think they should atleast have 2 or 3 hints to lead you there but oh well
(Sorry for sounding rude, just got frustrated after being spoiled by it on youtube)

 

[DrrT]

Honestly it annoys me more that it *attempts* to be a bookstrap paradox (I think that's the English term?) but it can't really work because without their book, the Professors don't have a way to even activate or desactivate the time machine, and the AI never recognizes you despite having memories of younger Arven. It's kind of a weird timeline thing, which seems like a waste given how the player could have met Heath instead-there are still so many questions about his expedition, about how he saw Paradoxes, including the Raidons, but they were not there when the Professors arrived, why he saw Stellar Terapagos and survived without apparently even being sure if it was alive (!?), the weird thing about meeting someone in a dream but not remembering what he wrote... It's an interesting and bittersweet choice, specially with the title screen changes, but it doesn't really add that much if you think about it, and meeting Heath could have still resulted in a paradox while resolving those mysteries that seemed like set up that goes nowhere.

Can't agree more on the youtube spoilers tho. A miniature of Mixeli (who btw has an oddly arrogant attitude) of AI Sada almost spoiled the ending for me, luckily I thought it was some type of clickbait because of the eyes lol

 

[CPU]

They probably wanted to distance it from Ghost since they had the same offensive profile. Ghost was physical because the only move it had in gen 1 that used the damage formula was Lick. Though considering Gen 2 also introduced Shadow Ball which would be the iconic Ghost move going forward, it can definitely feel like the two should have been swapped in retrospect.

My take on Ghost and Dark's pre-split categories is that, for whatever reason, their move types are more tied to their inherent Pokémon qualities rather than move qualities. "Ghost" as a type is traditionally a physical aspect, a state of being and possessing some level of incorporealness (IDK if that's a word but it's what i want to use). "Dark" (or "Evil") as a type is more an aspect of character, something that isn't necessarily betrayed by physical appearance (but, actually, we're in Pokémon, so it usually is). Underhanded tactics, sneaking around, opportunistic behavior, and sometimes just wanton violence are the sorts of actions Dark Pokémon take because of their nature.

Unfortunately most Dark moves tend to involve physical actions, which led to it becoming a predominantly physical attack type when the split happened (there are a lot of Dark status moves as well). Meanwhile, though Ghost has had Physical moves since the beginning (Lick ), it's a little hard to portray a solid physical blow when your type is characteristically a little less solid than your average Pokémon, which is why it took until Poltergeist to get a well-distributed, effective physical Ghost move. Before that, those that weren't legendary/mythical exclusive (Shadow Force, Spectral Thief) were either uncommon, underwhelming, or a little unwieldy (Shadow Punch, Shadow Claw, Phantom Force).

Can't agree more on the youtube spoilers tho. A miniature of Mixeli (who btw has an oddly arrogant attitude) of AI Sada almost spoiled the ending for me, luckily I thought it was some type of clickbait because of the eyes lol

I used to use Mixeli/Pokeli as one of my main Pokémon OST sources, but I got a little annoyed when they privated/deleted all of their non-battle music because they wanted to put the spotlight on their own arrangements. All of the cutscene spoiler videos aren't great either, and I can agree on the apparently arrogant attitude, though part of me wonders if some of that is some sort of ESL communication barrier. Either way, I've tried to avoid using their uploads as much as I can for a while now.

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I just realized how massively Gen IX was hit with "legendary Pokémon inflation". Or, well, "legendary" might not be the right term, as there are some specific definitions afoot there. "Special Pokémon" inflation, perhaps?

Anyway, "special Pokémon" are a bit like swear words: tricky to define, but easy to recognize.

Legendary post, ngl

This is a better definition for "Legendaries" than most of the silly groupings that people gotta use. Ex: Mythical.


Honestly, I'm going to blame VGC for the big legendary dumps we've been getting. These weren't really a thing before the transfer restrictions on legal VGC mons. At least not to this extent.

It kinda hurts the format too tbh. I'd like for the actual generation legendaries to have their time to shine without having to compete with, say, Kyogre. Keep things fresh, y'know?

 

[DrrT]

Legendary post, ngl

This is a better definition for "Legendaries" than most of the silly groupings that people gotta use. Ex: Mythical.


Honestly, I'm going to blame VGC for the big legendary dumps we've been getting. These weren't really a thing before the transfer restrictions on legal VGC mons. At least not to this extent.

It kinda hurts the format too tbh. I'd like for the actual generation legendaries to have their time to shine without having to compete with, say, Kyogre. Keep things fresh, y'know?

Did the same happen with SWSH? SV having so many Legendaries ready to transfer since day 1 (mostly from the SWSH DLC) meant that the moment Home was an option Calyrex would arrive on the format. Same with the mentioned weather trio, who are kind of a weird choice to be since the start. I can kind of forgive the Hisuians because LA didn't have competitive and would be fresh.

I used to use Mixeli/Pokeli as one of my main Pokémon OST sources, but I got a little annoyed when they privated/deleted all of their non-battle music because they wanted to put the spotlight on their own arrangements. All of the cutscene spoiler videos aren't great either, and I can agree on the apparently arrogant attitude, though part of me wonders if some of that is some sort of ESL communication barrier. Either way, I've tried to avoid using their uploads as much as I can for a while now.

I have seen that attitude mostly on Twitter (which I barely use so it must be a common thing) with him arguing with people about how his "canon protagonist" teams are accurate and saying that anyone who says they picked Chesnaught in XY was lying. Just bizarre. Same as to how Cyrano (is that his english name? The BBA director) was now the strongest trainer in any main game for some reason. All of this genuinely using the argument that he has many views while others do not. Like...your content is music dude.

I used to have them as my ost source as well, but since them I have moved to gamerips and more recently the official release (took them long enough)

 

[Coronis]

Honestly it annoys me more that it *attempts* to be a bookstrap paradox (I think that's the English term?) but it can't really work because without their book, the Professors don't have a way to even activate or desactivate the time machine, and the AI never recognizes you despite having memories of younger Arven. It's kind of a weird timeline thing, which seems like a waste given how the player could have met Heath instead-there are still so many questions about his expedition, about how he saw Paradoxes, including the Raidons, but they were not there when the Professors arrived, why he saw Stellar Terapagos and survived without apparently even being sure if it was alive (!?), the weird thing about meeting someone in a dream but not remembering what he wrote... It's an interesting and bittersweet choice, specially with the title screen changes, but it doesn't really add that much if you think about it, and meeting Heath could have still resulted in a paradox while resolving those mysteries that seemed like set up that goes nowhere.

Can't agree more on the youtube spoilers tho. A miniature of Mixeli (who btw has an oddly arrogant attitude) of AI Sada almost spoiled the ending for me, luckily I thought it was some type of clickbait because of the eyes lol

I mean as with everything these days, if you go online, particularly on YT, but also in any other place that’s involved with the game/book/show/movie/event its almost impossible to avoid spoilers.

For example since I’m in Australia and with my work schedule its hard for me to use social media/Reddit/Youtube without spoiling myself on certain sporting events since I can’t watch many live due to timezone/scheduling issues. A complete blackout is the best solution, ahead of (on Youtube and Reddit at least) muting certain Channels/Subreddits.

 

[QuentinQuonce]

My take on Ghost and Dark's pre-split categories is that, for whatever reason, their move types are more tied to their inherent Pokémon qualities rather than move qualities. "Ghost" as a type is traditionally a physical aspect, a state of being and possessing some level of incorporealness (IDK if that's a word but it's what i want to use). "Dark" (or "Evil") as a type is more an aspect of character, something that isn't necessarily betrayed by physical appearance (but, actually, we're in Pokémon, so it usually is). Underhanded tactics, sneaking around, opportunistic behavior, and sometimes just wanton violence are the sorts of actions Dark Pokémon take because of their nature.

Unfortunately most Dark moves tend to involve physical actions, which led to it becoming a predominantly physical attack type when the split happened (there are a lot of Dark status moves as well). Meanwhile, though Ghost has had Physical moves since the beginning (Lick ), it's a little hard to portray a solid physical blow when your type is characteristically a little less solid than your average Pokémon, which is why it took until Poltergeist to get a well-distributed, effective physical Ghost move. Before that, those that weren't legendary/mythical exclusive (Shadow Force, Spectral Thief) were either uncommon, underwhelming, or a little unwieldy (Shadow Punch, Shadow Claw, Phantom Force).

See I'm entirely the opposite on this. If I'm materialising behind you and stealing your spirit and playing mind games with you, that's a more inherently special-seeming thing, because it's similar to how Psychics operate (the anime's reasoning for Ghost's advantage seemed to be that Ghosts were doing it on another level and thus were immune to most of Psychic's mind powers, while Psychics couldn't "read" and manipulate Ghosts the way they could with other Pokemon). Lick is really the only unambiguously physical action Ghost had pre-split. All of its other moves were more metaphysical and intangible stuff: laying a curse on you, using a sinister ray to befuddle your mind, tormenting you to drain your PP, connecting our spirits so if I faint you faint too.

On the other hand, using underhanded tactics and playing dirty to win is inherently physical: tripping you up, ganging up on you, drawing in close and sucker-punching you before you realise I'm there. And it just so happened that all of Dark's moves pre-split went that way: biting, chasing, stealing.

I think the balance reasoning is entirely sound (Dark as a physical type in Gen II probably would have been too strong against Psychic, and they likely wanted the two new types to be contrasted), but the characterisation is all off with them. Which is why it's a good thing we eventually got a physical/special split, allowed for a lot more freedom in move concepts.

 

[pika pal]

Honestly it annoys me more that it *attempts* to be a bookstrap paradox (I think that's the English term?) but it can't really work because without their book, the Professors don't have a way to even activate or desactivate the time machine, and the AI never recognizes you despite having memories of younger Arven. It's kind of a weird timeline thing, which seems like a waste given how the player could have met Heath instead-there are still so many questions about his expedition, about how he saw Paradoxes, including the Raidons, but they were not there when the Professors arrived, why he saw Stellar Terapagos and survived without apparently even being sure if it was alive (!?), the weird thing about meeting someone in a dream but not remembering what he wrote... It's an interesting and bittersweet choice, specially with the title screen changes, but it doesn't really add that much if you think about it, and meeting Heath could have still resulted in a paradox while resolving those mysteries that seemed like set up that goes nowhere.

I have an extensive response I want to make but the degree of elaboration isn't strictly annoyance so much as theorizing, so going to post it in said thread.

On this end the thing I find kind of annoying is how little fanfare the Book meeting has after the "return to title." You get the one bait-and-switch with Arven, but no one else who knew the Professor or Area Zero has a reaction to it, with Arven's reaction and their lack thereof implying the character simply doesn't bring this up to or share it with anyone. It's not like they swore to keep it a secret or anything, and I'm not sure what would compel them to simply never discuss it with anyone besides Arven (in that case not wanting to reopen old wounds). It's just kind of a weird in-between for me where the game gives it some stand out fanfare and then it barely even changes anything superficial

 

[Volt-Ikazuchi]

I think the balance reasoning is entirely sound (Dark as a physical type in Gen II probably would have been too strong against Psychic, and they likely wanted the two new types to be contrasted), but the characterisation is all off with them.

Dark straight up cooks Psychic either way. They don't have a ghost of a chance besides clicking Dynamicpunch and praying.

Special Ghost and Physical Dark feel just right in Gens 2 and 3. The only reason they didn't make Dark physical from the jump was for it to not completely overshadow Ghost.

Ironically, the only reason Ghost was a physical type to begin with was... Lick.

Bad decisions related to moronic artifacts.

Speaking of those...

I hate Experience Groups!!!

 

[CPU]

See I'm entirely the opposite on this. If I'm materialising behind you and stealing your spirit and playing mind games with you, that's a more inherently special-seeming thing, because it's similar to how Psychics operate (the anime's reasoning for Ghost's advantage seemed to be that Ghosts were doing it on another level and thus were immune to most of Psychic's mind powers, while Psychics couldn't "read" and manipulate Ghosts the way they could with other Pokemon). Lick is really the only unambiguously physical action Ghost had pre-split. All of its other moves were more metaphysical and intangible stuff: laying a curse on you, using a sinister ray to befuddle your mind, tormenting you to drain your PP, connecting our spirits so if I faint you faint too.

On the other hand, using underhanded tactics and playing dirty to win is inherently physical: tripping you up, ganging up on you, drawing in close and sucker-punching you before you realise I'm there. And it just so happened that all of Dark's moves pre-split went that way: biting, chasing, stealing.

I think the balance reasoning is entirely sound (Dark as a physical type in Gen II probably would have been too strong against Psychic, and they likely wanted the two new types to be contrasted), but the characterisation is all off with them. Which is why it's a good thing we eventually got a physical/special split, allowed for a lot more freedom in move concepts.

That's the thing, the actions behind most Ghost/Dark attacks do match up with Special/Physical, but I think that the traits that make a Pokémon one of those types is reversed. I see Ghost as a "kind" of being in Pokémon, like Bug or Dragon. Bug is physical, and Dragon is... not. I guess that logic doesn't play out as well as I had hoped.

But yes, I do agree with you that the types' categories pre Gen 4 felt like they should have been switched.