Lucario (QC 0/3)

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Lucario

Overview
########

  • Mega Lucario ban hurts viability seriously
  • Still has important tools
  • Steel a more useful attacking type, but less good defensively- can't switch into dark attacks as easily, no ghost resistance
  • Extremespeed out-priorities Gale Wings, so Lucario is a Fighting-type that isn't easily checked by Talonflame

Swords Dance
########
name: Swords Dance
move 1: Swords Dance
move 2: Close Combat
move 3: Iron Tail / Ice Punch / Earthquake
move 4: ExtremeSpeed
ability: Justified
item: Life Orb
evs: 4 Def / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
nature: Adamant

Moves
========

  • Swords Dance, then punch stuff.
  • Close Combat is your strongest attack and your main STAB, but sometimes should be conserved due to low PP (8) and the -Def/SDef debuff.
  • Iron Tail is strong secondary STAB, does solid damage to all serious checks. Defense drops can help break especially tough opponents. Be wary of 75% accuracy.
  • Ice Punch hits Latis, Gliscor, Landorus, etc. Deals the same damage as Iron Tail against SE opponents, but has 100% accuracy.
  • Earthquake mainly for Aegislash, which resists all other moves. Bonus points for being non-contact, which prevents King's Shield from undoing a Swords Dance.
  • ExtremeSpeed is strong priority. Extra added bonus of being faster than opposing priority, especially Talonflame's Brave Bird.
  • Bullet Punch is especially useful for Gengar and Terrakion, but has few other benefits compared to Extremespeed, and is usually weaker. Only use if the team has significant trouble against these Pokemon.

Set Details
========

  • Basic EVs for a sweeper- maxed Atk/Spe, leftovers in Defense.
  • Life Orb for more power, because MORE POWER
  • Adamant nature because difference between base 90 and base 90+ is not especially relevant, and ExtremeSpeed patches up many speed issues.

Usage Tips
========

  • Lucario is a much more pure sweeper than it is a wallbreaker. Since it can be difficult to secure boosts, make sure you are in a position to capitalize when you do. Having to switch out an already set up Lucario is bad times.
  • Focus on eliminating opposing checks to Lucario first.
  • Use Lucario's resistances to set up. Many Pokemon are unable to efficiently damage Lucario, use that to your advantage.
  • Don't be afraid to predict and slam a greedy switch with Close Combat or Iron Tail when it was expecting Swords Dance.
  • ExtremeSpeed can be used for revenge killing in a pinch. Don't forget that you have it in your toolbox.

Team Options
========

  • Issues with faster Pokemon resistant to its priority. Terrakion, Gengar especially troublesome without Bullet Punch. <insert some pokemon here>
  • Issues with Pokemon resistant to coverage move. Aegislash for any set without Earthquake, Clefable for sets without Iron Tail, Gliscor for sets without Ice Punch, etc. <insert some pokemon here>
  • Hazard setters useful but not mandatory. Lucario has plenty of power but can suffer against some especially bulky opponents. Hazards can help secure ExtremeSpeed kills on faster foes, Close Combat / coverage move kills on bulky opponents. <insert some pokemon here>
  • Pursuit bait can be useful, as common Pursuit users like Tyranitar and Bisharp cannot effectively shut down Lucario, so free setup is nearly unstoppable in such a situation. <insert some pokemon here>
  • Special mention to Conkeldurr, which KOes with Mach Punch and only takes 70% tops from +2 ExtremeSpeed. Find a way to weaken it, or have a strong counter for when it comes in. <insert some Pokemon here>

Other Options
########

  • Agility is great for wrecking offensive teams that let their bulky members get worn down, but it can be hard to secure an Agility boost against strong attacking teams, and the power can be a letdown at times with no boosting move.
  • Nasty Plot suffers from the same major downsides of Lucario, but worse- Vacuum Wave is redundant coverage and doesn't hit many checks, its STABs are weak at 80 BP, and Hidden Power can actually fail to secure KOs with its low Base Power. No real reason to use it over Swords Dance.
  • Sub + 3 Attacks can be terrifying if you want to run Lucario as an early fighter. An opponent relying on offensive checks like Terrakion can easily be put on the defensive if Substitute comes into play at the right time.

Checks & Counters
########

  • **Status**: Paralysis and Burn are utterly crippling to Lucario, so prankster status users like Klefki, Thundurus-I, and Sableye can ruin Lucario's day. Klefki and Sableye are especially notable for resisting Extremespeed. Scald users can also be an issue, as setting up on them is a gamble and an untimely burn can end a sweep before it begins.
  • **Choice Scarf**: Bulky Choice Scarf users such as Keldeo, Garchomp, Landorus, etc can cause serious problems. Be sure to scout out common Scarf users and weaken them enough that Extremespeed can deal with them.
  • **Conkeldurr**: One of the few priority users that can actually take a +2 Extremespeed and deal serious damage with its own priority. Deals enough damage for Life Orb to finish the job within 1-2 turns, effectively ending a sweep. Weaken to ~60% to guarantee a kill, or try to lure it out and kill it elsewhere.
  • **Bulky Tanks**: The big winners here are Zapdos, Gyarados, Mega Venusaur, and Moltres, as they can shake off both of Lucario's STABs, as well as the most common coverage moves. Again, wearing these Pokemon down is important, as their bulk only goes so far, but if any of these Pokemon is at 100% when Lucario attempts to sweep, it won't get far. Bonus points for Gyarados for having Intimidate.
 
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Seven Deadly Sins

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Things to note:

Team Options needs fleshing out with actual Pokemon to do the things listed.
Checks & Counters may need some work, I borrowed a bit from the original analysis pre-takeover.
 
Ice Punch doesn't hit Mega Venusaur hard because of Think Fat. STAB Iron Tail does double the damage to it.
 

Colonel M

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Also:

I think you should note what Iron will KO easier than Iron Head. Iron Head still seems a little more appealing to me, but +2 Iron Tail can OHKO Calm Mega Venusaur and Bold Clefable for example.

Edit: Nvm Im dumb. I thought almost every fucking Steel learned the move and havent used Luke post-Mega ban :(
 
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Also:

I think you should note what Iron will KO easier than Iron Head. Iron Head still seems a little more appealing to me, but +2 Iron Tail can OHKO Calm Mega Venusaur and Bold Clefable for example.
Lucario doesn't even get Iron Head lol
Also Aegislash needs to be mentioned as a counter under bulky tanks, as it deals with non EQ variants of lucario easily. Crunch might be worthy of an OO mention as well.
 
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CyclicCompound

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My apologies if I'm mentioning something that's already going in the overview, but I would recommend that Lucario's raw power after a Swords Dance be emphasized in the overview, and by extension it can actually counter defensive teams lacking Quagsire really well. Skarmory, Mandibuzz, Unaware Clefable, Sylveon, Rotom-W, Heatran, Ferrothorn, Specially Defensive Hippowdon, and especially Chansey, all definite staples of more defensive playstyles, are helplessly mauled by a +2 Lucario (provided Stealth Rock is up). Mega Venusaur, the only defensive Pokemon outside of those who isn't outright OHKO'd, can't really do anything back to Lucario unless it has Earthquake, Sleep Powder, or Roar. Considering Mega Venusaur's lack of passive recovery, however, it's not difficult to chip it down to the 71% required to get a clean OHKO.

Oh, and on a related note, Quagsire should be in Checks and Counters. It can't actually switch in because it can be 2HKO'd by Close Combat (lol), but it forces Lucario out if it switches in safely.
 

Alter

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Overview
- You mention that Lucario still has "important tools" - what are these? You need to elaborate more on what features it has that distinguish it from other physical sweepers.
- You imply that a Steel typing is more useful offensively. This isn't exactly true as, while it does let it break through Fairy-types offensively, Steel still provides a plethora of resistances (e.g. Dragon, Ice, Grass, Normal, etc.) to help it set up and is a valuable secondary typing. Perhaps you could say that its secondary Steel typing allows it to break through Fairies (or something along those lines).
- You could turn the last point of Extreme Speed into something about how it can overcome its relatively medicore Speed stat when sweeping through its access to priority moves.

Moves
- Specify that Ice Punch hits Landorus-T, not Landorus (which outspeeds and OHKOs). I'm also not too certain about mentioning "Latis" as Latios's Life Orb Psyshock can do up to 96% to Lucario. Perhaps you could say just Latias.

Usage Tips
- You speak quite broadly when you discuss when to set up with Lucario...
i) specify at which stage of the game it shines (and why if you want)
ii) what kind of Pokemon can Lucario set Swords Dance up on? Give precise examples.

Team Options
- as long as you replace all of those '<insert some Pokemon here>' messages with actual Pokemon I'm happy. I trust your judgment to fix this.

Other Options
- Just explain why Sub + 3 Attacks can be bad. This is relatively straightforward and I agree with everything else you've said here.

Checks and Counters
- I think it's fine to add physically defensive Hippowdon into the last section of this. It can survive a single Close Combat at +2 and OHKO back with Earthquake. As Cycliccompound mentioned, Quagsire is a decent check. However, it is 2hko'd by Close Combat so it can't switch in that well.


QC APPROVED 1/3
 
I mean it's not complete, but I trust that you'll flesh it out when you write it up two months from now, and might as well put the pressure on you to write it up instead of on us to check it.

Stamp.gif


QC 2/3
 

MyNameIsVeryCreative

Banned deucer.
You could mention somewhere about it's 4x SR resistance, providing it with lots of switch in opportunities even if SR is on your side of the field.
 

Srn

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I'd like to see some talk of how it absorbs knock offs quite well, with a resistance and justified. A usage tip telling you to always switch into Bisharp, or something like that, would be cool too. Talk about what to switch in on, and emphasize how great it is to get a free +1 from knock off, despite losing LO.

Mention Gourgeist-S in c&c under status; it's faster, burns, and is immune to espeed and CC
Also, update the title :P
 

Martin

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With what you're saying about NP Lucario, remove the mention of Hidden Power as it has no reason to run it: its coverage options already hit enough:
  • Aura Sphere for Fighting-type STAB. Vaccume Wave for same coverage prioroty, but not really recommended due to its horrible base power without Adaptability.
  • Dark Pulse for amazing neutral coverage with Aura Sphere. Hits Ghost- and Psychic-types super effectively. Shadow Ball can be used to hit Fairy-types and ease prediction, but it misses out on Normal-types, hense the final move:
  • Flash Cannon for secondary STAB. Hits Fairy-types hard.

A mixed set deserves an OO mention for Flash Cannon over Iron Tail, or you could just give Flash Cannon a moves mention on the SD set.

Add 4MSS into the overview.

Crunch for moves. It hits for better coverage than EQ, but it lets you down against King's Shield (although you can play mind games with CC and SD anyway)

Sash for set details or slash. It is useful in lead situations, and it is also useful outside of them due to Lucario's horrible bulk.
 

Martin

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WTF are you talking about? NP Lucario isn't even getting an analaysis.
In OO I mean. It says
  • Nasty Plot suffers from the same major downsides of Lucario, but worse- Vacuum Wave is redundant coverage and doesn't hit many checks, its STABs are weak at 80 BP, and Hidden Power can actually fail to secure KOs with its low Base Power. No real reason to use it over Swords Dance.
That is what I meant
 
Add more Physical walls in the Checks & Counters section.Alter already mentioned physically defensive Hippowdon, and both Slowbro and Tangrowth can take anything from throw Lucario and OHKO or cripple it with Scald or Earthquake.Regenerator and reliable recovery ensures that they do not wear down over a long time.Latias is a solid Teamate,checks bulky Choice Scarfers(Landorus-T,Garchomp) and faster resist like (Terrakion).It also deals well with common defensive checks and can act as an pursuit bait.Giving a crippled Lucario a new life with Healing Wish is another plus.Both cant deal with Aegislash.
(Another note: Bisharp can 2HKO Luke with a combination of Knock of and SP,dont switch directly into one of its attacks)
 
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BurningMan

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**Choice Scarf**: Bulky Choice Scarf users such as Keldeo, Garchomp, Landorus, etc can cause serious problems. Be sure to scout out common Scarf users and weaken them enough that Extremespeed can deal with them.
While technically not incorrect, these Pokemon outspeed you with or without a Scarf (not to mention that scarf Keldeo and Landorus are extremely uncommon), better examples would be Excadrill, Landorus-T and Rotom-W.
 

Alter

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Do you guys (QC) mind if I take this over? I sent a PM to SDS almost a week ago to no response and this analysis has technically been reserved since new year's day yet still doesn't have a qc check implemented. If sds still really wants to work on it, then that's fine too.
 
Do you guys (QC) mind if I take this over? I sent a PM to SDS almost a week ago to no response and this analysis has technically been reserved since new year's day yet still doesn't have a qc check implemented. If sds still really wants to work on it, then that's fine too.
I don't care and I'm sure SDS doesn't either.
 

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