Ludicolo (QC: 0/3)


I just realized he has a duck beak...

QC: 0/3 [] [] []
GP: 0/2 [] []

Overview
########
  • Has a good typing, which can be used with or against rain teams well
  • Has two great rain-abusing abilities, in the forms of swift swim and rain dish
  • Well-rounded stats makes it somewhat unpredictable in what he is trying to accomplish
  • Lacks good power or speed without the rain compensating for it and has lackluster physical defense
  • Opposing rain teams are now less common, thanks to drizzle's nerf, which spoils Ludicolo's purpose as a rain team counter and will be obsolete in more matches in that role
  • Has a horrible support movepool, can only really provide rain or Leech Seed healing for it's teammates, but has a good attacking movepool
  • Synthesis is his only reliable recovery move which lacks PP and works badly in the rain
  • Needs rain up to be very useful
Special Rain Sweeper
########
Name: Special Rain Sweeper
Move 1: Hydro Pump
Move 2: Giga Drain/Energy Ball
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: Focus Blast/Rain Dance
Ability: Swift Swim
Item: Life Orb/Damp Rock
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpAtt, 252 Spe
Nature: Timid/Modest

Moves
========
  • Hydro Pump is Ludicolo's strongest move when complemented with rain and hits most things hard that do not resist
  • Giga Drain is Ludicolo's other STAB option that is reliable, fairly powerful, and somewhat removes Life Orb recoil, this can be switched for energy ball for more power, which nets a few important things when running timid and Life Orb, such as the guaranteed OHKO on offensive Keldeo, but loses out on the longetivity of running Giga Drain
  • Ice Beam creates nearly perfect neutral coverage, as it hits Dragon-types and Grass-types hard that resist Ludicolo's STABs
  • Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn, Mega Abomasnow, and Tyranitar hard, 2HKOing them, which can help clear them out for other rain sweepers, or if they aren't a problem, you can run rain dance to make Ludicolo self reliant, or a team supporter.

Set Details
========
  • Swift Swim is a great ability as it allows Ludicolo to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame
  • The choice between Life Orb and Damp Rock is if you are looking for Ludicolo to do major damage, or if you want to support other teammates as well as be a threat itself if needed
  • The EV's are straightforward, max out your Special Attack and Speed to become as threatening as possible, while dumping the leftover 4 into HP
  • A Timid nature lets you outspeed choice scarf base 108 speed pokemon and lower, which is a really good benchmark to hit, while modest gives you more power and lets you outspeed choice scarfed base 95 pokemon and lower, which is still good, but you are more likely to be revenge killed. It is also worth noting that ludicolo is weak to no regular priority moves, so it can be hard to handle if Life Orb hasn't weakened him enough.
Usage Tips
========
  • Get rain up and sweep or go to another another rain-abuser
Team Options
========
  • Strong Fighting-types, such as Lucario or Keldeo that can take care of Ferrothorn if Ludicolo is not running Focus Blast, otherwise he has trouble even 3HKOing Ferrothorn
  • Fast Electric-types, like Mega Manectric, Thundurus, or Raikou, that can abuse the rain via Thunder and handle Talonflame, which can easily revenge kill Ludicolo
  • Politoed to set up rain automatically for the team and handle Ninetails
  • Quilfish is another rain sweeper that hits on the physical spectrum that synergizes with Ludicolo fantastically type-wise
  • Kingdra is another rain sweeper that works well with Ludicolo, because they can wear down on each other's walls and help facilitate an easier sweep
Other Options
########
  • A Special Tank set to soak up Water-type attacks and plain stop some special rain sweepers in their tracks is very useful, but is outclassed by Latias due to Ludicolo's lack of a good offensive presence, or Jellicent and Gastrodon because of their greater special bulk, better abilities that let them take no damage from Water-type attacks and reliable recovery in Recover
  • A sub-seed set could work, but is outclassed in either speed, bulk, or power, as Ludicolo's stats make it have to choose one, when other users, like Celebi can be all three; sub-seed sets really struggle against Grass-types, which many are already Ludicolo's common switch-ins
  • Drain Punch is another option of an energy-draining attack, but loses out on STAB and runs off of Ludicolo's weak attack stat, but can be used as a bait for the blobs, and maybe a tyranitar
  • Swords Dance is it's best boosting option (don't even think about using Hone Claws or Power-Up Punch on this guy) and could make a rain-sweeper set out of it, but it is still way too weak and outclassed
Checks & Counters
########
  • Talonflame puts a halt on all Ludicolo sets with a strong priority, super-effective Brave Bird/Acrobatics that will dismantle the sweeper set, although it has trouble switching in on Ludicolo's Water STAB
  • Ferrothorn, Mega Abomasnow, and Assault Vest Tyranitar can easily wall all Ludicolo not using Focus Blast and two of them switch the weather also
  • Prankster pokemon with Thunder Wave will end Ludicolo's sweeping
  • Specially Defensive Ninetails does not take much damage from any of Ludicolo's moves when the sun is up, but must beware of Ludicolo predicting the switch and setting up another Rain Dance on the switch and hitting her hard with a Hydro Pump
  • Grass types that have naturally high Special Defense, such as Celebi and Virizion, that can take an Ice Beam, can wall him hard, Mega Venusaur is noteworthy, because thanks to Thick Fat, it laughs at every hit Ludicolo throws at him
  • Ludicolo can wall opposing Ludicolo, although they will usually be at a sort of stalemate, the defensive one might come out on top
  • Very strong Special Walls, especially the Blobs and Goodra, eat up all of Ludicolo's attacks
 
Last edited:

Jukain

!_!
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnusis a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnus
pick set names that mean stuff. no one calls standard ludicolo 'jalapeño'. how's about 'Rain Special Attacker'.

the second set isn't really viable with the departure of perma rain; i'd remove it unless there's something key i'm missing.

also, mention kingdra is team options; ludicolo is pretty much only used as a supplement to it (swift swim attacker).

i plan on testing this out really soon, so i'll come back with some comments.
 
Hi, not QC but a few things i've noticed:
Goodra probably deserves a mention in checks and counters, also other special walls like Blissey and Chansey.

Steelix isn't really relevant in the OU metagame, I'd suggest other steel types such as Excadrill. Ludicolo can take fire and water attacks aimed at Exca easily enough, and Excadrill takes flying moves while spinning.

Scolipede isn't much of a check, as it can't take a rain boosted hydro and is outsped and KO'd. The same goes for Tornadus and Thundurus-T; they are outsped and KO'd

I'd replace mention of Jolteon with Thundurus as it's much more relevant at the moment
 
pick set names that mean stuff. no one calls standard ludicolo 'jalapeño'. how's about 'Rain Special Attacker'.

the second set isn't really viable with the departure of perma rain; i'd remove it unless there's something key i'm missing.

also, mention kingdra is team options; ludicolo is pretty much only used as a supplement to it (swift swim attacker).

i plan on testing this out really soon, so i'll come back with some comments.
I guess you are right about the second set, it also gets outclassed by Latias, due to her better overall stats, who can do the same job while letting her still be an offensive threat, and Ludicolo only really has that quadruple resistance to water over her in this regard.
 
Hi, not QC but a few things i've noticed:
Goodra probably deserves a mention in checks and counters, also other special walls like Blissey and Chansey.

Steelix isn't really relevant in the OU metagame, I'd suggest other steel types such as Excadrill. Ludicolo can take fire and water attacks aimed at Exca easily enough, and Excadrill takes flying moves while spinning.

Scolipede isn't much of a check, as it can't take a rain boosted hydro and is outsped and KO'd. The same goes for Tornadus and Thundurus-T; they are outsped and KO'd

I'd replace mention of Jolteon with Thundurus as it's much more relevant at the moment
I implemented everything you said, as I really can't argue with any of it.
 
I feel Choice Specs deserves a slash as a possible item Ludicolo can run. Assuming Politoad's Rain is up, it becomes a powerful revenge killer, who hit very hard. STAB + 252 SpA + Modest + Rain Boosted + Choice Specs Hydro Pumps are nothing to take lightly, even from 90 SpA.
 

Martin

Killionaire
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
I feel that the special tank set deserves to be one of the main sets as with Rain Dish and Damp Rock Politoed support, it becomes the best SubSeeder in the game as with Leftovers, Rain Dish and Leech Seed recovery, it will be restoring 25% every turn which lets it set up infinite subs while the rain is up. Also, give the set the name "SubSeed".
 
I feel that the special tank set deserves to be one of the main sets as with Rain Dish and Damp Rock Politoed support, it becomes the best SubSeeder in the game as with Leftovers, Rain Dish and Leech Seed recovery, it will be restoring 25% every turn which lets it set up infinite subs while the rain is up. Also, give the set the name "SubSeed".
This set would be feasible if rain was permanent, however as it lasts a maximum of 8 turns Ludicolo is best off using that short time to sweep/revenge kill/wallbreak with rain-boosted attacks rather than attempt to stall. Stall by definition takes up a great number of turns, which is difficult when Ludicolo is reliant on 8-turn rain to do so.
 

Martin

Killionaire
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
This set would be feasible if rain was permanent, however as it lasts a maximum of 8 turns Ludicolo is best off using that short time to sweep/revenge kill/wallbreak with rain-boosted attacks rather than attempt to stall. Stall by definition takes up a great number of turns, which is difficult when Ludicolo is reliant on 8-turn rain to do so.
That's why such a set will always run Rain Dance to patch up this problem. I have used the set to great success on my stall team so far this gen. If you were to make such a set, it would be as follows:

name: SubSeed
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Leech Seed
move 4: Protect / Scald
ability: Rain Dish
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
nature: Bold


I just realized he has a duck beak...

QC: 0/3 [] [] []
GP: 0/2 [] []

Overview
########
  • Has a good typing, which can be used with or against rain teams well
  • Has two great rain-abusing abilities, in the forms of swift swim and rain dish
  • Well-rounded stats makes it somewhat unpredictable in what he is trying to accomplish
  • Lacks good power or speed without the rain compensating for it and has lackluster physical defense
  • Opposing rain teams are now less common, thanks to drizzle's nerf, which spoils Ludicolo's purpose as a rain team counter and will be obsolete in more matches in that role
  • Has a horrible support movepool, can only really provide rain or Leech Seed healing for it's teammates, but has a good attacking movepool
  • Synthesis is his only reliable recovery move which lacks PP and works badly in the rain
  • Needs rain up to be very useful
Special Rain Sweeper
########
Name: Special Rain Sweeper
Move 1: Hydro Pump
Move 2: Giga Drain/Energy Ball
Move 3: Ice Beam
Move 4: Focus Blast/Rain Dance
Ability: Swift Swim
Item: Life Orb/Damp Rock
EVs: 4 HP, 252 SpAtt, 252 Spe
Nature: Timid/Modest

Moves
========
  • Hydro Pump is Ludicolo's strongest move when complemented with rain and hits most things hard that do not resist
  • Giga Drain is Ludicolo's other STAB option that is reliable, fairly powerful, and somewhat removes Life Orb recoil, this can be switched for energy ball for more power, which nets a few important things when running timid and Life Orb, such as the guaranteed OHKO on offensive Keldeo, but loses out on the longetivity of running Giga Drain
  • Ice Beam creates nearly perfect neutral coverage, as it hits Dragon-types and Grass-types hard that resist Ludicolo's STABs
  • Focus Blast hits Ferrothorn, Mega Abomasnow, and Tyranitar hard, 2HKOing them, which can help clear them out for other rain sweepers, or if they aren't a problem, you can run rain dance to make Ludicolo self reliant, or a team supporter.

Set Details
========
  • Swift Swim is a great ability as it allows Ludicolo to outspeed the entire unboosted metagame
  • The choice between Life Orb and Damp Rock is if you are looking for Ludicolo to do major damage, or if you want to support other teammates as well as be a threat itself if needed
  • The EV's are straightforward, max out your Special Attack and Speed to become as threatening as possible, while dumping the leftover 4 into HP
  • A Timid nature lets you outspeed choice scarf base 108 speed pokemon and lower, which is a really good benchmark to hit, while modest gives you more power and lets you outspeed choice scarfed base 95 pokemon and lower, which is still good, but you are more likely to be revenge killed. It is also worth noting that ludicolo is weak to no regular priority moves, so it can be hard to handle if Life Orb hasn't weakened him enough.
Usage Tips
========
  • Get rain up and sweep or go to another another rain-abuser
Team Options
========
  • Strong Fighting-types, such as Lucario or Keldeo that can take care of Ferrothorn if Ludicolo is not running Focus Blast, otherwise he has trouble even 3HKOing Ferrothorn
  • Fast Electric-types, like Mega Manectric, Thundurus, or Raikou, that can abuse the rain via Thunder and handle Talonflame, which can easily revenge kill Ludicolo
  • Politoed to set up rain automatically for the team and handle Ninetails
  • Quilfish is another rain sweeper that hits on the physical spectrum that synergizes with Ludicolo fantastically type-wise
  • Kingdra is another rain sweeper that works well with Ludicolo, because they can wear down on each other's walls and help facilitate an easier sweep
Other Options
########
  • A Special Tank set to soak up Water-type attacks and plain stop some special rain sweepers in their tracks is very useful, but is outclassed by Latias due to Ludicolo's lack of a good offensive presence, or Jellicent and Gastrodon because of their greater special bulk, better abilities that let them take no damage from Water-type attacks and reliable recovery in Recover
  • A sub-seed set could work, but is outclassed in either speed, bulk, or power, as Ludicolo's stats make it have to choose one, when other users, like Celebi can be all three; sub-seed sets really struggle against Grass-types, which many are already Ludicolo's common switch-ins
  • Drain Punch is another option of an energy-draining attack, but loses out on STAB and runs off of Ludicolo's weak attack stat, but can be used as a bait for the blobs, and maybe a tyranitar
  • Swords Dance is it's best boosting option (don't even think about using Hone Claws or Power-Up Punch on this guy) and could make a rain-sweeper set out of it, but it is still way too weak and outclassed
Checks & Counters
########
  • Talonflame puts a halt on all Ludicolo sets with a strong priority, super-effective Brave Bird/Acrobatics that will dismantle the sweeper set, although it has trouble switching in on Ludicolo's Water STAB
  • Ferrothorn, Mega Abomasnow, and Assault Vest Tyranitar can easily wall all Ludicolo not using Focus Blast and two of them switch the weather also
  • Prankster pokemon with Thunder Wave will end Ludicolo's sweeping
  • Specially Defensive Ninetails does not take much damage from any of Ludicolo's moves when the sun is up, but must beware of Ludicolo predicting the switch and setting up another Rain Dance on the switch and hitting her hard with a Hydro Pump
  • Grass types that have naturally high Special Defense, such as Celebi and Virizion, that can take an Ice Beam, can wall him hard, Mega Venusaur is noteworthy, because thanks to Thick Fat, it laughs at every hit Ludicolo throws at him
  • Ludicolo can wall opposing Ludicolo, although they will usually be at a sort of stalemate, the defensive one might come out on top
  • Very strong Special Walls, especially the Blobs and Goodra, eat up all of Ludicolo's attacks
On this set, may I suggest taking Damp Rock off of the items? Ludicolo will find itself lacking in power without the Life Orb. Furthermore, remove Energy Ball and Focus Blast from the set as there is no reason to use Energy Ball over Giga Drain and Focus Blast's low accuracy coupled with the fact that the combination of Water-, Grass- and Ice-type moves has perfect neutral coverage leads to there being no reason to run it.

I feel Choice Specs deserves a slash as a possible item Ludicolo can run. Assuming Politoad's Rain is up, it becomes a powerful revenge killer, who hit very hard. STAB + 252 SpA + Modest + Rain Boosted + Choice Specs Hydro Pumps are nothing to take lightly, even from 90 SpA.
There is no reason to run Choice Specs on Ludicolo as it hates being locked into moves. Furthermore it is reliant on rain to do anything useful, so it needs to have the ability to set it up itself just in case its backup goes kaput.
 
Last edited:
That's why such a set will always run Rain Dance to patch up this problem. I have used the set to great success on my stall team so far this gen. If you were to make such a set, it would be as follows:

name: SubSeed
move 1: Rain Dance
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Leech Seed
move 4: Protect / Scald
ability: Rain Dish
item: Leftovers
evs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
nature: Bold


On this set, may I suggest taking Damp Rock off of the items? Ludicolo will find itself lacking in power without the Life Orb. Furthermore, remove Energy Ball and Focus Blast from the set as there is no reason to use Energy Ball over Giga Drain and Focus Blast's low accuracy coupled with the fact that the combination of Water-, Grass- and Ice-type moves has perfect neutral coverage leads to there being no reason to run it.


There is no reason to run Choice Specs on Ludicolo as it hates being locked into moves. Furthermore it is reliant on rain to do anything useful, so it needs to have the ability to set it up itself just in case its backup goes kaput.
There is definitely reason to run Choice Specs on Ludicolo. With Politoad's rain up, Ludicolo becomes a Stoutland of the rain, being able to outspeed and OHKO many offensive threats. The sheer surprise factor of having Hydro Pump 2HKO your Latios on the switch (252+ SpA Choice Specs Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios in Rain: 159-187 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) means that very few offensive teams can safely switch into this monster. Not only that, but Ludicolo's revenge killing capabilities are some of the best, being able to outspeed extremely fast threats like Mega Manetric and OHKO them with a STAB Hydro Pump. With his amazing coverage with Giga Drain and Ice Beam as well, his late-game sweeping power is also amazing, since very few offensive teams can deal with his Choice Specs boosted moves.

Overall, Choice Specs Ludicolo is a great way to deal with a lot of offensive teams, as most people just expect they can switch in stuff like Latios and there Ludicolo problems will go away. With great power, speed, revenge killing and late-game cleaning capabilities, I see no reason why Choice Specs isn't deserving of a slash on the offensive set.

Also, I must say, your set sounds quite interesting. Do you think you could post some replays of it in action? I'd love to see how it works!
 

Martin

Killionaire
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
There is definitely reason to run Choice Specs on Ludicolo. With Politoad's rain up, Ludicolo becomes a Stoutland of the rain, being able to outspeed and OHKO many offensive threats. The sheer surprise factor of having Hydro Pump 2HKO your Latios on the switch (252+ SpA Choice Specs Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios in Rain: 159-187 (52.6 - 61.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) means that very few offensive teams can safely switch into this monster. Not only that, but Ludicolo's revenge killing capabilities are some of the best, being able to outspeed extremely fast threats like Mega Manetric and OHKO them with a STAB Hydro Pump. With his amazing coverage with Giga Drain and Ice Beam as well, his late-game sweeping power is also amazing, since very few offensive teams can deal with his Choice Specs boosted moves.

Overall, Choice Specs Ludicolo is a great way to deal with a lot of offensive teams, as most people just expect they can switch in stuff like Latios and there Ludicolo problems will go away. With great power, speed, revenge killing and late-game cleaning capabilities, I see no reason why Choice Specs isn't deserving of a slash on the offensive set.

Also, I must say, your set sounds quite interesting. Do you think you could post some replays of it in action? I'd love to see how it works!
However, the main issue with running specs on Ludicolo is that - unlike Stoutland - it can also support the team with rain, as well as heal up with Giga Drain, which could lead to issues when you can't do both without having to switch in and out successfully (something offensive Ludicolo has difficulty doing as it is). Also, if you run life orb, you could 2HKO Lati@s with Ice Beam anyway (252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 177-208 (58.6 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)

As for the replays, I will get you a few as soon as possible (i haven't saved any, but I have had relative success with the set in the past).
 
Last edited:
However, the main issue with running specs on Ludicolo is that - unlike Stoutland - it can also support the team with rain, as well as heal up with Giga Drain, which could lead to issues when you can't do both without having to switch in and out successfully (something offensive Ludicolo has difficulty doing as it is). Also, if you run life orb, you could 2HKO Lati@s with Ice Beam anyway (252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 177-208 (58.6 - 68.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery)

As for the replays, I will get you a few as soon as possible (i haven't saved any, but I have had relative success with the set in the past).
The thing is, while you can obtain the 2HKO with the Life Orb set, you must predict, or else you risk getting OHKO'd by a Draco Meteor (252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 318-375 (105.2 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO) I also feel that being able to just click "Hydro Pump" 90% of the time is also very beneficial, as it allows you to forgo predicting and just spam a high-powered move for as long as Rain's up. This works especially well against offensive teams, as most aren't able to handle the power of Choice Specs Rain Boosted Hydro Pumps. You do lose longevity, as you said. But Ludicolo definitely leaves its mark against the opposing team, especially offensive ones that don't have much bulk.

Also, no rush no the replays. :)
 

Martin

Killionaire
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
The thing is, while you can obtain the 2HKO with the Life Orb set, you must predict, or else you risk getting OHKO'd by a Draco Meteor (252 SpA Choice Specs Latios Draco Meteor vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Ludicolo: 318-375 (105.2 - 124.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO) I also feel that being able to just click "Hydro Pump" 90% of the time is also very beneficial, as it allows you to forgo predicting and just spam a high-powered move for as long as Rain's up. This works especially well against offensive teams, as most aren't able to handle the power of Choice Specs Rain Boosted Hydro Pumps. You do lose longevity, as you said. But Ludicolo definitely leaves its mark against the opposing team, especially offensive ones that don't have much bulk.

Also, no rush no the replays. :)
Specs could work, but I feel that it should be left to other options. And besides: if the rain is up you will outpace the Latios anyway and switch up moves and a STAB life orb hydro pump in the rain + Ice Beam combo will still be enough to get the 2HKO anyway

Latios calc
(252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios in Rain: 138-164 (45.6 - 54.3%))+(252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latios: 203-239 (67.2 - 79.1%))=341-403 (112.8-133.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

and in the case of Latias...
(252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias in Rain: 120-140 (39.7 - 46.3%))+(252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Latias: 177-208 (58.6 - 68.8%))=297-348 (98.3-115.1%) -- 1.7% chance to not 2HKO

In a nutshell, Choice Specs is worthy of other options, but shouldn't be on the main set.

as for the replays, I will collect a few once the doubles suspect test is over.
 
On this set, may I suggest taking Damp Rock off of the items? Ludicolo will find itself lacking in power without the Life Orb. Furthermore, remove Energy Ball and Focus Blast from the set as there is no reason to use Energy Ball over Giga Drain and Focus Blast's low accuracy coupled with the fact that the combination of Water-, Grass- and Ice-type moves has perfect neutral coverage leads to there being no reason to run it.

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 328-385 (81.1 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is why Energy Ball deserves a slash. Also Focus Blast is there for Ferrothorn, who would otherwise wall Ludicolo and also walls many common members of rain teams.
 

Martin

Killionaire
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Energy Ball vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Giga Drain vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 328-385 (81.1 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

This is why Energy Ball deserves a slash. Also Focus Blast is there for Ferrothorn, who would otherwise wall Ludicolo and also walls many common members of rain teams.
the problem with running Energy Ball over Giga Drain is that for a 15 BP increase, lose the ability to heal, which is pretty detrimental for a pokemon like Ludicolo.

With Focus Miss Blast, even if you are on a rain team, you have teammates to deal with rain-counters such as Ferrothorn, and how can you call this ("this" being Focus Miss Blast) a way to deal with Ferrothorn:

252+ SpA Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 166-196 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

It's not even guaranteed to 2HKO, wheras if you were to switch in a better counter to Ferrothorn that you tend to find on rain-teams you could get a guaranteed 2HKO or greater on it (such as Lucario (Physical Set (252 Atk Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 242-288 (68.7 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) Special Set (252 SpA Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 180-212 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)) or Toxicroak after a Swords Dance (+2 252 Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 294-348 (83.5 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) which is very easy to obtain when you are in against a freaking Ferrothorn)

This makes Focus Miss Blast have no place on the main set. However, I do feel that it deserves a mention in Other Options as, like you demonstrated, it isn't completely useless on Ludicolo.
 
the problem with running Energy Ball over Giga Drain is that for a 15 BP increase, lose the ability to heal, which is pretty detrimental for a pokemon like Ludicolo.

With Focus Miss Blast, even if you are on a rain team, you have teammates to deal with rain-counters such as Ferrothorn, and how can you call this ("this" being Focus Miss Blast) a way to deal with Ferrothorn:

252+ SpA Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 166-196 (47.1 - 55.6%) -- 78.5% chance to 2HKO

It's not even guaranteed to 2HKO, wheras if you were to switch in a better counter to Ferrothorn that you tend to find on rain-teams you could get a guaranteed 2HKO or greater on it (such as Lucario (Physical Set (252 Atk Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 242-288 (68.7 - 81.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) Special Set (252 SpA Lucario Aura Sphere vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 180-212 (51.1 - 60.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO)) or Toxicroak after a Swords Dance (+2 252 Atk Toxicroak Drain Punch vs. 252 HP / 48+ Def Ferrothorn: 294-348 (83.5 - 98.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO) which is very easy to obtain when you are in against a freaking Ferrothorn)

This makes Focus Miss Blast have no place on the main set. However, I do feel that it deserves a mention in Other Options as, like you demonstrated, it isn't completely useless on Ludicolo.
Sorry to butt in, but... you forgot the Life Orb boost on your calc!

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 216-255 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It actually does net a 2HKO on standard Ferro. However....

4 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 165-195 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not only that, but staying in on Ferrothorn means risking getting Thunder Waved, which is very detrimental to Ludicolo's success. Overall, I feel the final slash should be given to Energy Ball/Rain Dance, with Focus Blast in the OO.

On a side note, Focus Blast also does help with Cube, as it's a 2HKO. (252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 317-374 (80.8 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) However, Dragon Claw does a hell of a lot to Ludicolo, so it definitely can't switch directly into Cube, nor revenge it when it's behind a Sub.
 

Martin

Killionaire
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Live Chat Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
Sorry to butt in, but... you forgot the Life Orb boost on your calc!

252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 208 SpD Ferrothorn: 216-255 (61.3 - 72.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

It actually does net a 2HKO on standard Ferro. However....

4 Atk Ferrothorn Power Whip vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Ludicolo: 165-195 (54.6 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Not only that, but staying in on Ferrothorn means risking getting Thunder Waved, which is very detrimental to Ludicolo's success. Overall, I feel the final slash should be given to Energy Ball/Rain Dance, with Focus Blast in the OO.

On a side note, Focus Blast also does help with Cube, as it's a 2HKO. (252+ SpA Life Orb Ludicolo Focus Blast vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kyurem-B: 317-374 (80.8 - 95.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery) However, Dragon Claw does a hell of a lot to Ludicolo, so it definitely can't switch directly into Cube, nor revenge it when it's behind a Sub.
i feel the last slot should just have rain dance, and have Energy Ball and Focus Blast in Other Options.
Also dash Surf with Hydro Pump, in the order Hydro / Surf
ps. thanks for pointing out the mistake in the calc. I keep doing that XD
 
Last edited:

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top