XY OU Magic: Adapting to a New Metagame [Peaked #2]

TheEnder

a petal in the wind
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion


"Shards of glass can cut and wound or magnify a vision."
-
Terry Tempest Williams




Hey guys, this is Ender here :] I'm pretty new here on Smogon, and I haven't gotten to participate in the bigger tours yet, nor have I gotten to know all the cool people in this community, but these are things I really want to be doing in the future. Anyways, I'm here with this RMT; at the moment we are watching the mategame constantly change, with new suspect tests and bans lurking behind every corner. This is my attempt at creating a team capable of having decent matchup against most playstyles, thus being a team that's very hard to face and beat. As I haven't gotten to use this team in quality tours, I have had to resort to laddering and less prestigious tours for evaluation of the team. It has done me pretty well, netting me a good record on Mawile Suspect Test, won me room tours on PS, and got me top 10 on regular OU ladder lol not like it matters though. Let's take a look, shall we?


After Aegislash got banned, a lot of threats suddenly became much more viable, due to being hard countered by Aegi. Two of these are Mega Gardevoir and Lati@s. When building this team, I chose these two pokes as the base of my offensive core, as they have decent synergy and target the same defensive pokemon, basically functioning as Dragon Spam functioned last gen.


Some of the pokes Gardevoir and Latios really struggle to take down include Heatran, Chansey and Mega Scizor. To compliment the base of the core, I added Keldeo, which comes in pretty much for free and threatens to OHKO or severely dent all of these pokes Gardevoir and Latios struggle to take on. In return, Gardevoir poses a threats to most of the pokes Keldeo can't take on, like opposing Lati@s, Mega Venusaur and Bulky Waters.


Having these three pokes in a offensive core, I didn't really know what to do with it onwards. I found it hard fitting hazards and hazard control, as i wanted to use a 3 Attacks + Roost set on Latios. I stopped building on this, and moved on to other teams. Then halfway through the Mawile suspect test, me and my buddy Rhaegar decided that we were gonna make this team the one we'd use for getting reqs. A mon that really liked having Mawile gone was Ferrothorn, as generic offense doesnt really have anything to take on Ferro without getting crippled in the process. Therefore, we decided to add Ferrothorn, as it checks like half the meta and provoides amazing utility.


The last two pokes on my team had to fullfill many roles; we needed Stealth Rocks, as we found Ferrothorn subpar without either Power Whip or Gyro Ball. We also needed a way of clearing hazards on our side of the field. Lastly, we needed a way of taking on Mega Charizard X, because once it sat up, it basically plowed through the first 4 pokes of our team. We started by using Starmie and Scarf Terrakion, but that comination lacked SR. After some testing, it came to our mind that Excadrill + Sand Setter would be just what we were looking for, and thus we added Hippowdon and Excadrill.


After some testing, we found Hippowdon rather lacking on an offensive team like this, as it gave away a lot of free turns after setting Stealth Rocks. It was also unable to provoide enough support for Excadrill to successfully sweep against opposing offense, as Leftovers were nessecary for Hippowdon to function well as a tank and SR setter. Because of these reasons, we decided to try running Smooth Rock SR Tyranitar over Hippowdon. Having a second switchin to Lati@s was something the team really needed as well, and while making me weaker to Fighting- and Ground-types in general, it has worked out much better as Tyranitar provoides much more offensive presence. Fortunately enough, the weaknesses Tyranitar and Excadrill share were already covered well enough by Gardevoir and Latios, making it less of a problem.



"Call it magic
"Cut me into two
"And with all your magic
"I disappear from view"




Magic (Gardevoir) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

After the banning of Aegislash, Mega Gardevoir has risen in usage and has been proved to be on of the most dangerous nukes in the current metagame, with close to no pokes safely switching into it. On this team, Gardevoir fulfills many roles, but one that stands out in particular is it's capability of breaking down bulkier teams and full stall. Mega Gardevoir's ability to beat almost every single defenesive pokemon 1v1 is irreplaceable on the team, as it means there will be opened holes for Keldeo and Latios to clean up. With the combination of excellent stats, fantastic dual STAB, and Focus Blast to cover Steel-types that resist it's STABs, Gardevoir is the crux of this team, putting in major work in nearely every single battle. With a Modest Nature and Taunt in the last moveslot, it is also capable of beating Chansey 1v1, which is full stall teams' "counter" to Gardevoir, making it's job at stallbreaking even easier. Against more offensive teams, Mega Gardevoir still fares decently, as it functions as a great secondary switchin to Lati@s, alongside with Tyranitar. It also has the ability to come in on unboosted Fighting-type attacks like Conkeldurr's Drain Punch, Scarf Terrakions Close Combat and Breloom's Mach Punch, and threaten to OHKO all of them with Hyper Voice. The EVs given allow Gardevoir to always live two Psyshocks from LO Latios from full health, and while situational, I think it's better to be safe than sorry, seeing how Gardevoir often is hard switched into the Lati twins. Lastly, Gardevoir is often chosen as a lead against Balance and Stall, as opponents often tend to lead with Pokemon that take on Tyranitar well, like Rotom-W, Landorus-T, Gliscor, and Hippowdon, all of whom Gardevoir fears little from.

"Confidence in you
"Is confidence in me
"Is confidence in High Speed"




High Speed (Latios) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Roost
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Latios is another Pokemon that improved greatly with Aegislash getting banned. Having almost unrivaled offensive stats, great offensive typing and decent bulk, Latios is another important poke to the team. Acting as a fantastic offensive check to Keldeo, Mega Charizard Y, and Landorus, which otherwise are big threats, makes Latios really pull it's weight. It also provoids a much-needed Ground immunity and Fighting-resist, which forces mindgames with opposing Excadrills and Terrakions. Because Gardevoir and Latios mostly target the same defensive threats, Latios is often used as a cleaner against balanced teams and Stall, once Chansey or any other Specially Defensive Wall is taken on by Gardevoir. Together with Keldeo, the offensive core has proven to make stall players' life hard, as most stall teams cannot handle the pressure these three apply. The moveset let's Latios maintain it's dual STABs, covering the likes of Amoongus, Mega Venusaur and Terrakion, which Latios can come in on (on resisted hits) and threaten to severely dent them in return. These pokes are otherwise huge problems to the team, which is one of the reasons Latios is so important. As Excadrill clears hazards with Rapid Spin, Latios has an open slot in it's moveset, as it doesn't need to run Defog anymore. Hidden Power [Fire] let's it act as a great lure to Ferrothorn and Mega Scizor, nailing them on the switch, and thus taking away two of the few pokes who come in on Gardevoir. It also hurts Bisharp greatly, making it harder for the opponent to pursuit trap Latios. Roost gives it a way of reliably healing, making it capable of switching into the Pokemon it's checking multiple times throughout a battle, while also increasing its wallbreaking capabilities as it can heal up on predicted switches or sacks. When running Hidden Power [Fire], you no longer tie with opposing base 110s. The EV spread is set to get the jump on base 108s, dumping the leftover EVs in Special Defense. The IVs given are to make it's HP hit a Life Orb number, minimizing the damage it takes from LO for the cost of close to no bulk.

"Screaming out from the crests of waves
"You're longing to be saved
"Screaming out from the crests of waves
"You are longing to be saved"




Crests of Waves (Keldeo) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Electric] Icy Wind

Keldeo is kind of an offensively baised "glue" to this team, as it checks a lot of threats which otherwise plow through the team. Examples here include Bisharp, and Mega Scizor, where Keldeo resists all their common moves and threaten to hurt them badly or cripple them with Scald. Keldeo is also this teams switchin to Heatran, who can prove to be a problem to both Gardevoir and Latios. Against both defensively and offensively baised teams Keldeo puts in a lot of work, as it's high-powered Scalds coupled with eventual burns and hazard damage makes it very hard to take on. Eventually, even bulkier counters like Amoongus and Mega Venusaur will get whittled, which means Keldeo has a lot of free space to tear apart opposing teams. Due to it having good matchup against common hazard leads on offensive teams, such as Garchomp, Terrakion, Mamoswine, and Landorus-T, Keldeo is often used as my lead versus Offense. As it outspeeds or speed ties with the opposing lead in most cases, it forces the opponent to decide whether to set hazards or to get damage off on Keldeo. When it comes to moveset and EVs, Specs Keldeo is a pretty standard Pokemon, so it's mostly straightforward. Scald is the most used move in the moveset by far, as having 100% accuracy and a 70% 30% chance to burn, along with decent neutral coverage, makes it Keldeo's most spammable move by far. Hydro Pump is there when increased damage output is needed, but low accuracy makes this a high risk, high reward kind of move. Secret Sword gives Keldeo a way of hitting Chansey hard, making it this teams primary way of hitting Chansey besides Gardvoir. It also does a lot to pokes like Rotom-W, Suicune and physically frailer Pokemon wanting to come in on a special move. The last moveslot has been changed up a lot. I started out running Hidden Power [Electric] to suprise Gyarados, Slowbro and Alomomola. After some tesing, I found this rather lacking, and started running Hidden Power [Flying] for Venusaur and Amoongus. While this was effective against Stall, Scald was generally the move of choice, as getting a burn could be worth more than doing a lot for one turn. HP Flying didn't do anything versus Offense either, which kinda annoyed me. Therefore, I decided to go with Icy Wind, nailing Lati@s on the switch and giving Keldeo a way of OHKOing dragons like Garchomp and Dragonite. Changed back to Hidden Power [Electric] as hitting Gyarados and other bulky waters in more benficial for the team.

"Nobody said it was easy
"It's such a shame for us to part
"Nobody said it was easy
"No one ever said it would be this hard"




The Scientist (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball

Ferrothorn is the defensively baised "glue" to the team. With it's amazing defensive typing and stats, it hinders some of the biggest threats in the metagame from overpowering me. The likes of Mega Gyarados, Mega Tyranitar, Azumarill, Manaphy, Suicune, non HP Fire Greninja, Kyurem-B, Mamoswine, non HP Fire Lati@s, Garchomp, and non Fire Punch Dragonite are all handled by Ferrothorn. Even though it lacks reliable recovery, it is high up on the list of pokes that's hard to wear down, due to it's passive recovery in Leech Seed and Leftovers + Protect. It's moveset is pretty self-explanatory; both Leech Seed and Protect are neccesary for Ferrothorn to function as well as a tank. Power Whip gives it a way of hitting bulky Waters such as Azumarill and Manaphy in a pinch, while Gyro Ball paired with a Relaxed nature and zero Speed IVs lets it hit Breloom, Mamoswine, Gardevoir, and Kyurem-B hard, making them think twice before stayin and attacking. Ferrothorn's EV spread is also pretty standard; Full HP investment let's it hit a Leftovers number, maximizing it's recovery. The EVs in Special Defense lets it always avoid the 2HKO from +3 Manaphy's Ice Beam from full health, and the rest is put in Defense to take on the physically orientated threats it's designed to take on in the best possible way. Another role Ferrothorn performs on this team is it's pivot switching. It can come in on Gardevoir's Hyper Voice, or Medicham's Fake Out, then scout with Protect and gain some recovery, before switching out and getting in another member of the team, that's capable of taking on the opponent's poke.

Sand Offense


Before I get to the last two mons in the team, I'm going to address the core as a whole, since it deserves more emphasis than it's individual members.

This core is so beautifully convenient it's ridiculous. In this meta, hazard setters are generally always one up on the hazard removers with how easy it is to set rocks as opposed to how difficult it is to remove them without the consequence of sacrificing lives or momentum. Sand Rush Excadrill is probably the one hazard remover that more oft than not does not sacrifice momentum thanks to it's amazing offensive prescence. The reason sand has become so centralizing is the number of roles covered with just two slots. Rather than the general teambuilding up to 3-4 mons then struggling to cram a variety of roles and checks into the limited room you have left, building around this core fulfills the roles of Stealth Rock user, hazard removal, sweeper, revenge killer, cleaner, sashbreaker, and trapper in a mere two slots allowing you four more slots (including Mega) for delightfully liberal teambuilding. A Sand Drill core is so good that it would be worth using even without most of these things but the amount of utility brought as a bonus, especially considering how bad defoggers are, pushes this playstyle beyond any other in OU.

"Don't you shiver
"Don't you shiver
"Sing it loud and clear
"I'll always be waiting for you"




Shiver (Tyranitar) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Atk / 104 SpA
Brave Nature
- Ice Beam
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock

Tyranitar's great bulk allows it to play the role of an offensive glue providing great utility, in addition to it's vital role as the sand setter. Acting as the main check to commonly used offensive threats such as Talonflame and Staraptor, Mega Manetric, Mega Charizard X, Zapdos and Lati@s makes it a vital part of the team. Stealth Rock is an extremely potent move and Tyranitar generally doesn't have trouble getting rocks up as well as preserving them by having the advantage over most common Defoggers, seeing as how they are mostly Flying- or Psychic-types. When the opponent's team is identified in the team preview with no likely leads to threaten Tyranitar, it's a good option to lead with it to get Sand Stream and rocks up ASAP while breaking opposing lead Sashes with the end-turn damage. The residual damage from sandstorm over time greatly helps Excadrill clean late game. Stone Edge is of course chosen as Tyranitar's powerful STAB. Pursuit for trapping Lati@s and Band-locked Talonflame, and Ice Beam for coverage, mainly for Landorus-Therian who gives Excadrill trouble in sweeping. Sometimes, having Fire Blast > Ice Beam or Pursuit would be nice, as nailing Ferrothorn and Scizor on the switch is somthing the team would appreciate. This all comes down to matchup though, and being able to dent Ground-types can be just as important to hitting Steel-types. The EVs are chosen so that Ice Beam always OHKOes max HP Lando-T after rocks. Tyranitar's bulk allows it to live an Earthquake from a max attack Adamant Lando-T and retaliate with Ice Beam, though it's tricky not to lose the prey by revealing Ice Beam when he U-Turns out. A Brave nature is chosen as Speed is the least required stat since the set hardly demands it, acting as a coverage tank and trapper who relies on bulk and predicted switches.

"Such a rush to get nowhere at all
"Such a fuss to do nothing at all
"Such a rush"




Such a Rush (Excadrill) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

Being unbanned from Ubers in Gen VI due to weather being nerfed, Excadrill is a force to be reckoned with. With it's fantastic ability and great offensive stats, it makes another important member of the team; acting as a revengekiller, sweeper and hazard remover, all in one. Against opposing offensive teams, Excadrill often becomes the teams win-condition, after Keldeo, Gardevoir, and Latios has broken holes, opening for a clean-up. Due to being relatively fast unboosted as well, it is a failsafe against set-up sweepers like Mega Gharizard X, Mega Tyranitar, Mega Gyarados and Dragonite, even when boosted to +2. An Adamant nature was chosen over a Jolly one, as the difference in damage output is too big to let go of. It's moveset is pretty self-explanatory; Earthquake is it's main STAB, hitting a lot of type combinations for neutral or super effective damage. Iron Head is the secondary STAB, taking care of Fairy-types who otherwise can prove to be a problem to the team. Rock Slide rounds off the sets coverage, hitting the Flying-types who otherwise take nothing from the first two moves. Lastly, Rapid Spin was chosen for the last moveslot over the optional Swords Dance. As I wanted Latios to run it's 3 attacks + Roost set, I decided to give up on Excadrill's potential sweeping capabilities, and rather have it support the team in a pinch. Air Balloon was my item of choice, as opposing Sand Offense would be a problem without my own Excadrill acting as a one-time check to opposing ones.


Powerful Fighting-types with coverage for Latios and Gardevoir are the biggest threats to my team. I have to play around with mindgames, and try to get Latios or Gardevoir in on a resisted hit. On many occasions I have to sack something, then resort to revengekilling. Choice versions of Terrakion are less of a problem, as Ferrothorn scouts nicely.


Mega Gyarados paired with Gothitelle or Magnezone can be a huge problem, as i have to keep Keldeo healthy, force Gyara to mega forme by using Excadrill, then revengekill with Keldeo.


Mega Scizor in general, and especially paired with Gothitelle; if Keldeo gets trapped and killed I have to catch Scizor with HP Fire from Latios on the switch in order to be able to deal with it.


Dragonite with Fire Punch can prove to be a problem, as it takes on Ferrothorn, my usual switchin to Dragonite. Tyranitar lives a +1 Dragon Claw though, so i have to keep that healthy. On Outrage variants, I have to sack something to Outrage, and go to Gardevoir to revengekill.


The same goes for Greninja with Hidden Power [Fire]. I can no longer take it on with Ferrothorn, and it outspeeds and does shitloads to everything else. I usually have to pivot via Tyranitar, sack something, and revengekill it with Excadrill.
Magic (Gardevoir) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 24 Def / 232 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

High Speed (Latios) (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SpA / 12 SpD / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Roost
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Crests of Waves (Keldeo) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Icy Wind

The Scientist (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Protect
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball

Shiver (Tyranitar) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Atk / 104 SpA
Brave Nature
- Ice Beam
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock

Such a Rush (Excadrill) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head
You guys in the OverUsed room at PS! for getting getting me into this :)
Rhaegar buddy n_n you helped me so much troughout this, thanks a lot IAmGingy Drugs Wiz T7 Albacore Dallaren Omegasization all fwens :] Jukain and fingerscrossed, thanks for getting me into building with you long ago, wouldn't had so fun without getting into it :) There are lots more, you guys know who you are, thanks for testing and being nice ppl in general :D Also shoutouts to all the good players (you know who you are aswell ;D) making me wanna get up there.

Thanks for reading this RMT, please let me know your thoughts about it :] Cheers
~TE~
 
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Yo Ender nice team you got there Ive been been wondering how you made a team that is so good so i tried it out and found that once Mega Pinsir is at +2 and carries close combat it can really damage your team a lot and may even sweep so i just wanted to address that im not sure whether to replace ferro with a pinsir counter like Gengar but hopefully you'll find one :]
 
This team is really great honestly but I would put a mention of Twave + 3 attacks Thundurus on your threat list. I'm sure you've worked around this issue but realistically in one way or another it has the potential to screw over each of your team members, either from an offensive stand point or through the use of paralysis. Nothing really much else to say, one of the better builds I've come across so great job.
 

TheEnder

a petal in the wind
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Yo Ender nice team you got there Ive been been wondering how you made a team that is so good so i tried it out and found that once Mega Pinsir is at +2 and carries close combat it can really damage your team a lot and may even sweep so i just wanted to address that im not sure whether to replace ferro with a pinsir counter like Gengar but hopefully you'll find one :]
Yeah Pinsir sure is a problem, but fourtunately it doesn't set up for free on anything for free (bar Keldeo locked into Secret Sword). You basically have to keep TTar healthy, got up Rocks early, and rkill with Exca or Latios is its unboosted :)

This team is really great honestly but I would put a mention of Twave + 3 attacks Thundurus on your threat list. I'm sure you've worked around this issue but realistically in one way or another it has the potential to screw over each of your team members, either from an offensive stand point or through the use of paralysis. Nothing really much else to say, one of the better builds I've come across so great job.
Thanks n_n And yeah, I don't know how I forgot to include Thundurus in threat list, it's one of the bigger problems to the team. I usually pivot via Ferrothorn to get in Gardevoir, but yeah, it's a nuisance :/
 
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Yeah Pinsir sure is a problem, but fourtunately it doesn't set up for free on anything for free (bar Keldeo locked into Secret Sword). You basically have to keep TTar healthy, got up Rocks early, and rkill with Exca or Latios is its unboosted :)


Thanks n_n And yeah, I don't know how I forgot to include Thundurus in threat list, it's one of the bigger problems to the team. I usually pivot via Ferrothorn to get in Gardevoir, but yeah, it's a nuisance :/
Forgot to ask but how do you work around Rock Polish Landorus-I, or have you just not seen it yet? I know it's not the most common of things but it feels like a potential problem with just a bit of residual damage mid-late game.
 
Sweet team buddeh :heart:

Here's mine, though you already know.
Gard (Gardevoir) @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature

IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Focus Blast
- Taunt

Latios (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 12 Def / 252 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Recover
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Ferro (Ferrothorn) @ Leftovers
Ability: Iron Barbs
EVs: 252 HP / 88 Def / 168 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Leech Seed
- Spikes
- Power Whip
- Gyro Ball

Tar (Tyranitar) @ Smooth Rock
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Atk / 104 SpA
Brave Nature
- Ice Beam
- Stone Edge
- Pursuit
- Stealth Rock

Drill (Excadrill) @ Air Balloon
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Rock Slide
- Iron Head

  • Idk I was always just more comfortable with Timid Gardevoir, and when I died first turn to a Heracross I was like fuck you Ender.
  • I like HP Flying best on Keldeo especially when I'm running a trapper.
  • Spikes over Protect on Ferro because Sandstorm + Rocks + Spikes is amazing residual damage, coupled with a spinner rather than a Defogger. Helps its fast teammates clean and especially weakens Keldeo for Non-LO Drill.
  • I would critic the Ttar set if it weren't my own :]. I'm very happy with it. Probably wouldn't have it with me right now if it weren't for you.
Edit: Forgot to mention Recover Latios cause it's cooler than Roost
 
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Hey Ender n_n great team, but I honestly think, that Mega Scizor is the hugest threat for your team. As soon as Excadrill and Keldeo are at 50% of their health Scizor can switch into Ferrothorn for example, Swords Dance once, and OHKO all of your pokemon as this replay clearly shows http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-153313441
It forces you to keep Excadrill and Keldeo at full health all the time, but even Excadrill can't do so much damage to MScizor with speed Investment really:
  • 252+ Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 138-163 (44.5 - 52.5%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO
Therefore MScizor can 2HKO Excadrill with a Bullet Punch at +2:
  • +2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 180-212 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
So basically Scizor can switch into half of your team (Excadrill Tyranitar and Ferrothorn) and MGardevoir, if it's the bulky spread, set up, and kill your entire team.
 
Hey fwen thanks for
the shoutout n_n. I remember playing this team back around the aegi suspect and it was an all round good team but just a few things i noticed.
1) Scarf-Tar>Rocks Tar- helps u deal with pinsir thundy better and have a revenge killer outside exca in sand to catch things like zard y.
2) Well with scarf tar u now need rocks so using rocks ferro is the obv option. Rocks>gyro/whip depending on what you wish to hit harder.
3) Wisp>Taunt on garde for this team imo. Gives you a reliable lure for scizor so as to cripple it for the entire game.
4) Your actually kinda weak to opposing sand so maybe a more defensive ferro spred is in order to beat excadrill more reliably? At the end of the day its your choice just something to consider n_n.You know pretty much every ferro spread in existance you use it so much. Maybe the 252/128/128 spred to beats kyub ice beam?

Either way great team classic example of sand offense for post Aegi era gj fwen :]

Edit: Satelite this team is just classic sand offense it was not stolen by either player more than likely just a coincidence that they both teams turned out similar.
 

TheEnder

a petal in the wind
is a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past WCoP Champion
Hey fwen thanks for
the shoutout n_n. I remember playing this team back around the aegi suspect and it was an all round good team but just a few things i noticed.
1) Scarf-Tar>Rocks Tar- helps u deal with pinsir thundy better and have a revenge killer outside exca in sand to catch things like zard y.
2) Well with scarf tar u now need rocks so using rocks ferro is the obv option. Rocks>gyro/whip depending on what you wish to hit harder.
3) Wisp>Taunt on garde for this team imo. Gives you a reliable lure for scizor so as to cripple it for the entire game.
4) Your actually kinda weak to opposing sand so maybe a more defensive ferro spred is in order to beat excadrill more reliably? At the end of the day its your choice just something to consider n_n.You know pretty much every ferro spread in existance you use it so much. Maybe the 252/128/128 spred to beats kyub ice beam?

Either way great team classic example of sand offense for post Aegi era gj fwen :]

Edit: Satelite this team is just classic sand offense it was not stolen by either player more than likely just a coincidence that they both teams turned out similar.
All of those changes were how the team team looked before testing pretty much. ScarfTar is incredibly nice for Zards and Genies, and Will-O-Wisp was the original choice of filler slot for Garde. Problem was though, once Ferro gave up Power Whip, Manaphy, Suicune and BD Azumarill became threats. Also, Exca no longer had 8 turns of sand, so cleaning was much harder. Stall matchup was also suprisingly hard without Taunt, as Chansey kinda walls 5/6 pokes lol. Anyhow, they are all viable changes, and I will go back to testing how it fares with them n_n
Forgot to ask but how do you work around Rock Polish Landorus-I, or have you just not seen it yet? I know it's not the most common of things but it feels like a potential problem with just a bit of residual damage mid-late game.
RP Landorus with Knock Off is a huge problem, but it's so rare I haven't even considered it haha. I guess Gardevoir can take an EP from full health and OHKO in return, so thats the teams way of dealing with it lol :]
 

aim

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Hey TheEnder really solid team! Honestly, that's the best way that i can describe it haha. I don't really have much to change but as far as I can tell Mega Gyarados is a pretty big threat. Being able to set up on Excadrill as well as Tyranitar and -2 Latios. If Ferrothorn, your only really check, is pressured, I can see Gyarados being an issue. To fix this I would suggest running Hidden Power [Electric] over Icy Wind. I know that you started out running it, but with Excadrill as well as Ferrothorn, I feel that there is no real need to hit Garchomp and Dragonite as your team handles them just fine. This just gives you some back up insurance vs DD Lum Gyarados as well and gives you enough damage on Mega Gyarados that way Earthquake from Excadrill can revenge kill if Keldeo goes down.


Crests of Waves (Keldeo) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Like i said i don't really have much suggestions as this team is already solid as it is and I don't want to change too much. So cool team brosk, hope i helped! :]
 
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this team is very solid. i always wanted to build a decent team with gardevoir + sandexcattar and I think yours is probably one of the best i've seen around them. nice job!
 

alexwolf

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Nice team TheEnder. You already mentioned your big weakness to Fighting-types and one thing you could do to help alleviate this is run Latias over Latios. Some examples where Latias's bulk comes handy is to always survive Adamant Mega Medicham's High Jump Kick after SR and sand damage, and to always survive LO Terrakion's Stone Edge after Stealth Rock, as well as taking hits from Specs Keldeo much better, which is important because with sand Latios gets worn down very easily and has to use Roost all the time. Also, Latias can take one +2 Quick Attack from Mega Pinsir and OHKO it with Draco Meteor in case sand is not up while surviving even after LO damage, so you don't have to sacrifice Tyranitar to revenge kill it (Mega Pinsir can set up on Ferrothorn, Keldeo locked into Sacred Sword or weakened ones that can be forced out with Quick Attack, and by forcing out Mega Gardevoir). Another nice thing about Latias is that it can actually tank one +2 Bullet Punch from bulky Mega Scizor after SR and do 76% damage back minimum with Hidden Power Fire, leaving it easy pickings for Excadrill in case it doesn't get KOed. Finally, Latias has Healing Wish, a very nice move on an offensive team such as yours, as giving a second life to Tyranitar or Mega Gardevoir can be game changing.

Aside from this, i don't have anything else to suggest that you already haven't or is really minor. I prefer WoW > Focus Blast because Focus Blast has really bad accuracy and all Steel-types except from Heatran are fucked up by WoW, especially Mega Scizor which can be troubling to your team, but with Heatran already countering two of your Pokemon (Ferrothorn and Latios) it might be better to keep Focus Blast. I would also go with a Timid nature on Mega Gardevoir, to make sure you Speed tie at worst with Mega Medicham, which as you said is a big problem to your team.

Here is the Latias set:

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 88 HP / 176 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Roost / Healing Wish
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Good luck, hope i helped.
 
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While using this team, i noticed it has a weakness to celebi and mew. I recomend putting knock off > gyro ball on ferrothorn, as the only thing you really miss out on is kyurem-b which, unless it is substitute or HP fire, gets stalled out by leech seed anyway. Knock off allows you to hit celebi and mew for really good damage, and usually mew goes for taunt before will-o-wisp anyway.
 

dEnIsSsS

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While using this team, i noticed it has a weakness to celebi and mew. I recomend putting knock off > gyro ball on ferrothorn, as the only thing you really miss out on is kyurem-b which, unless it is substitute or HP fire, gets stalled out by leech seed anyway. Knock off allows you to hit celebi and mew for really good damage, and usually mew goes for taunt before will-o-wisp anyway.
Gardevoir is a pretty good check, but it won't enjoy taking residual damage from burn + hazards + weather damage.
 

TheEnder

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So here's some replies, sorry for being a tad bit late, been testing the changes suggested here:
Hey TheEnder really solid team! Honestly, that's the best way that i can describe it haha. I don't really have much to change but as far as I can tell Mega Gyarados is a pretty big threat. Being able to set up on Excadrill as well as Tyranitar and -2 Latios. If Ferrothorn, your only really check, is pressured, I can see Gyarados being an issue. To fix this I would suggest running Hidden Power [Electric] over Icy Wind. I know that you started out running it, but with Excadrill as well as Ferrothorn, I feel that there is no real need to hit Garchomp and Dragonite as your team handles them just fine. This just gives you some back up insurance vs DD Lum Gyarados as well and gives you enough damage on Mega Gyarados that way Earthquake from Excadrill can revenge kill if Keldeo goes down.


Crests of Waves (Keldeo) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Hydro Pump
- Secret Sword
- Hidden Power [Electric]

Like i said i don't really have much suggestions as this team is already solid as it is and I don't want to change too much. So cool team brosk, hope i helped! :]
This was a nobrainer really, Icy Wind almost never comes in handy as offesne gets a free switchin after it does ~50% to Lati@s. Against bulkier teams it also doesn't do enough to Venusaur and Amoongus, so Scald in generally the better option. Gonna edit this into the OP, as hitting Gyarados and the occasional Slowbro and Alomomomomola is more important :]
Nice team TheEnder. You already mentioned your big weakness to Fighting-types and one thing you could do to help alleviate this is run Latias over Latios. Some examples where Latias's bulk comes handy is to always survive Adamant Mega Medicham's High Jump Kick after SR and sand damage, and to always survive LO Terrakion's Stone Edge after Stealth Rock, as well as taking hits from Specs Keldeo much better, which is important because with sand Latios gets worn down very easily and has to use Roost all the time. Also, Latias can take one +2 Quick Attack from Mega Pinsir and OHKO it with Draco Meteor in case sand is not up while surviving even after LO damage, so you don't have to sacrifice Tyranitar to revenge kill it (Mega Pinsir can set up on Ferrothorn, Keldeo locked into Sacred Sword or weakened ones that can be forced out with Quick Attack, and by forcing out Mega Gardevoir). Another nice thing about Latias is that it can actually tank one +2 Bullet Punch from bulky Mega Scizor after SR and do 76% damage back minimum with Hidden Power Fire, leaving it easy pickings for Excadrill in case it doesn't get KOed. Finally, Latias has Healing Wish, a very nice move on an offensive team such as yours, as giving a second life to Tyranitar or Mega Gardevoir can be game changing.

Aside from this, i don't have anything else to suggest that you already haven't or is really minor. I prefer WoW > Focus Blast because Focus Blast has really bad accuracy and all Steel-types except from Heatran are fucked up by WoW, especially Mega Scizor which can be troubling to your team, but with Heatran already countering two of your Pokemon (Ferrothorn and Latios) it might be better to keep Focus Blast. I would also go with a Timid nature on Mega Gardevoir, to make sure you Speed tie at worst with Mega Medicham, which as you said is a big problem to your team.

Here is the Latias set:

Latias (F) @ Life Orb
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 88 HP / 176 SpA / 244 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 29 HP / 0 Atk / 30 SpA / 30 Spe
- Roost / Healing Wish
- Psyshock
- Draco Meteor
- Hidden Power [Fire]

Good luck, hope i helped.
Hey Ender n_n great team, but I honestly think, that Mega Scizor is the hugest threat for your team. As soon as Excadrill and Keldeo are at 50% of their health Scizor can switch into Ferrothorn for example, Swords Dance once, and OHKO all of your pokemon as this replay clearly shows http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/oususpecttest-153313441
It forces you to keep Excadrill and Keldeo at full health all the time, but even Excadrill can't do so much damage to MScizor with speed Investment really:
  • 252+ Atk Excadrill Earthquake vs. 116 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 138-163 (44.5 - 52.5%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO
Therefore MScizor can 2HKO Excadrill with a Bullet Punch at +2:
  • +2 252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Excadrill: 180-212 (49.8 - 58.7%) -- 99.6% chance to 2HKO
So basically Scizor can switch into half of your team (Excadrill Tyranitar and Ferrothorn) and MGardevoir, if it's the bulky spread, set up, and kill your entire team.
So yeah, after playing some on ladder and testing with friends on whether to run Will-O-Wisp > Focus Blast or not, I've had mixed results. Crippeling Ferrothorn, Jirachi, and Mega Scizor on the switch in really, really beneficial, and it makes Scizor much less of a problem as it no longer switches into anything on the team bar Tyranitar and Ferrothorn. It also helps neutering rampaging Bisharps and slower setup-sweepers (are there any other lol), which is nice. Heatran becomes much more of a problem to the team though, as you said Alexwolf; it walls half my team. I think this is still managable though, as the combination of Tyranitar's Pursuit, Ferrothorn's Leech Seed and the spam of Psyshock and Draco Meteor is enough to wear it down fast enough. I'm gonna edit in this in the OP as well, as I think it rounds off the team better, making me less threatened by some pokes, while opening minor weaknesses to other. While doing this though, I decided to keep Latios for the offensive presence it gives over Latias, as breaking stall and wearing down the aforementioned Heatran is easier with Latios > Latias.
 
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About Mega Garde, I never really liked Taunt on it, personally. Since you've got sand and Pursuit support, wearing down Chansey to 2HKO range of Psyshock is pretty damn easy tbh:

252+ SpA Mega Gardevoir Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 228-268 (35.5 - 41.7%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage

And that's without any prior damage at all, 1 tiny tap from literally anything and the pink blob is a goner. I don't know about you or anyone else, but I just find that, realistically, I hardly ever use Taunt with it because she's just so frail on the physical side so most SR setters can do a huge number to her, and using Taunt on walls is a tad risky since they often just go for an attack expecting the Taunt (S-Toss from Chansey, for example, is an easy 3HKO). If you drop Taunt, then you can run both Focus Blast and WoW on the same set, so then Heatran stops being a pain in the rear and walling half of your team, while simultaneously giving you the ability to cripple other steels like Jirachi, Mega Scizor and Doublade who don't really give a shit about Focus Blast with a Wisp. And if you really want to stall break with it, I find CM is a lot more devastating than Taunt as well.

Nice team though btw.
 
a few things bothered me enough to post..

change willowisp back to focus blast. having an hp fire latios is reason enough to run focus blast on gardevoir. once heatran is gone, not much is going to want to switch into latios or garde. what's more, both keldeo and excadrill really appreciate the removal of (or weakened) ferrothorn. the sooner you kill ferrothorn, the sooner you can spam scald and sand rush sweep. run 252 speed on latios. yeah, you're not hitting 350 speed, but you should be happy with 349, speed tying other hp fire/fighting lati. the 12 spdef isn't going to help you for shit, the speed tie might win you a game.

pinsir and talonflame both seem really annoying, especially when coupled with magnezone. making tyranitar scarf doesn't really fix the problem, since getting up rocks with ferro means getting trapped. squeezing in a thundurus somewhere just opens up different weaknesses, so i guess the best you can do is play well with tyranitar/excadrill.

nice team :toast:
 
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TheEnder

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a few things bothered me enough to post..

change willowisp back to focus blast. having an hp fire latios is reason enough to run focus blast on gardevoir. once heatran is gone, not much is going to want to switch into latios or garde. what's more, both keldeo and excadrill really appreciate the removal of (or weakened) ferrothorn. the sooner you kill ferrothorn, the sooner you can spam scald and sand rush sweep. run 252 speed on latios. yeah, you're not hitting 350 speed, but you should be happy with 349, speed tying other hp fire/fighting lati. the 12 spdef isn't going to help you for shit, the speed tie might win you a game.

pinsir and talonflame both seem really annoying, especially when coupled with magnezone. making tyranitar scarf doesn't really fix the problem, since getting up rocks with ferro means getting trapped. squeezing in a thundurus somewhere just opens up different weaknesses, so i guess the best you can do is play well with tyranitar/excadrill.

nice team :toast:
Yeah, this is I change I've been wanting to edit in lol I just haven't got to do it. I don't really see much Mega Scizor anymore, and Heatran and Ferrothorn is on every other team so yeah :)

Also, Pinsir and Talonflame is very annoying yeah, though Ferro, Tyranitar and Excadrill generally forced them out and pressures defoggers and spinner enough to keep rocks up :)
 
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