Gen 2 Magneton (UU) [QC 1/2] [GP 0/2]

:gs/Magneton:

[OVERVIEW]
Magneton is a powerful dual Electric-Steel type that is able to temporarily wall or check non Hidden Power Ground variants of Granbull and Scyther which dominate the tier, as well as Psychic types that don't have Fire Punch as coverage, such as Kadabra, Mr.Mime, and Hypno (but Scyther can always pass an attack boost to a teammate like Nidoqueen). Magneton uses its phenomenal STAB Thunder/Thunderbolt to threaten a good portion of the metagame. It does have a few drawbacks compared to other Electrics in the tier, namely, its limited movepool, its slow speed and poor HP and SpDef stats can make it inconsistent at checking certain pokemon, such as Blastoise, Slowking or Fire Punch variants Mr.Mime and Kadabra. Its quad-weakness to Ground typing and reliance on Hidden Power Ice to damage its checks means it will have a hard time stopping UU’s top threat in Nidoqueen from switching in. Magneton not only has a vast competition with other more popular Electrics, namely Ampharos, Electabuzz and Lanturn, but it finds itself having to compete as a Normal resistant pokemon with the likes of Haunter and Omastar, both of which appear to handle their own checks more effectively and which do not risk being OHKO'd by a Hidden Power Ground after Spikes.

[SET]
name: Sleep Talker
move 1: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Reflect
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers

Set Description
=========
Thunder is without a doubt the most powerful move in Magneton's arsenal, allowing it to OHKO Slowbro, Omastar and Scyther, 2HKO Slowking and Granbull and even has a solid chance of 3HKOing Hypno at the start of a match, one of the most valuable feats of any special attacker. Thunder’s relatively high paralysis rate means that it can threaten to cripple many fast pokemon such as Mr.Mime, Electabuzz and Kadabra, as well as defensive pokemon, such as Bellossom. Thunderbolt is a slightly less potent but more accurate option. Unlike Omastar, Slowbro and Scyther no longer risk getting 2HKO'd by Thunderbolt. Its higher accuracy rate means it actually has a higher chance of OHKOing Gyarados, a near guaranteed chance of OHKOing Qwilfish and Dodrio, and a more consistent chance of beating Blastoise, Politoed and Slowking in the 1v1. Thunderbolt’s lower base power, however, means it is less consistent against Granbull, who is still slower, but survives a 2HKO and has a chance of OHKOing it back with Hidden Power Ground.
Hidden Power Ice is a decent coverage move granting Magneton the coveted pseudo Bolt-beam coverage, which can be helpful to chip Nidoqueen and Bellossom, although it only scratches the 3HKO mark, and has a chance to OHKO Gligar. This can be easily brushed off from both Nidoqueen and Bellossom, both of which have access to Moonlight. Reflect can be slashed over Hidden Power Ice, should the player decide to insert Magneton in a defensive core and use the support move before it invites an obvious switchin, such as Nidoqueen or Piloswine.

The third and fourth move are what make Magneton such a reliable tank: Rest and Sleep talk help grant the slow Magneton with the much needed longevity to continue packing a punch and keep opposing offence from taking advantage of its low health stat. This also lets it absorb status from the likes of Haunter, Mr. Mime, Hypno, Bellossom and Jumpluff, all of which tend to lose momentum when faced with it.
Sleep talk lets Magneton continue to keep non-Hidden Power Ground Granbull in check, even after a few Curses.

Team Options
=========
Since Magneton is the normal resist that has the hardest time dealing with its checks, it requires defensive support from its teammates as well as offensive synergy. Magneton’s Electric and Steel typing means it is highly susceptible to Earthquake and the common Hidden Power Ground and that it has a hard time handling the likes of Nidoqueen, Piloswine, Sandslash and Quagsire. Since it can’t do much to threaten them, it requires defensive support from its teammates as well as offensive synergy. Bulky Waters such as Blastoise, Slowking and Slowbro and Politoed are a convenient solution to the threat of Ground types. In return these pokemon benefit from Magneton’s presence, because it resists both of their weaknesses, namely Grass and Electric. Blastoise is faster than Nidoqueen, can threaten it with Surf and offers the benefit of Rapid Spin support to remove Spikes. Gyarados’s ground immunity complements Magneton very well, enabling a high amount of pivoting between the two. Although it fears Thunder from Nidoqueen, it is still quite powerful against the likes of Piloswine and Quagsire and can even switch in on HP ground variants of Scyther or Granbull. Slowbro and Slowking are defensively apt at handling threats like Granbull or opposing Psychic types without an Electric move and also Nidoqueen. For checks against other Ground types like Sandslash or Quagsire, there are Bellossom, Pinsir, and Gligar who resist or are immune to Earthquake. Bellossom offers support by threatening Magneton’s Ground-type checks with a status move or a STAB Razor leaf and Pinsir, who resists Earthquake can threaten Piloswine with Submission or Quagsire and Nidoqueen with a Double Edge or a Body Slam, but both of these pokemon fear Fire Blast. Magneton has a chance to threaten many of their checks such as Scyther, Qwilfish, Crobat and Haunter using Thunder.

Some of the pokemon that the Sleep Talk variants of Magneton seem to offer support to are Ground types themselves, like Piloswine, Sandslash, Nidoqueen and Quagsire, who offer physical or mixed offence to help cleave through the special walls that stand in Magneton’s way, such as Chansey and Ampharos, in exchange for protection against Grass and Water types. Piloswine, while being a valid check to non-Fire Blast versions of Nidoqueen, can depend on Magneton’s Thunder to OHKO Gyarados and Blastoise. Blastoise, Politoed and Qwilsifh can pose a threat to Quagsire and Sandslash as well, because they learn Haze which can nullify their attack boosts from Swords Dance and Belly Drum. Magneton also acts as a decent check against Bellossom, which it can threaten with Hidden Power Ice. Nidoqueen may struggle to get past Granbull and hates facing Psychic types, especially the Bulky Hypno and the powerful Mr.Mime and Kadabra. As already stated, Magneton is quite apt at handling these threats thanks to its Steel typing and STAB Thunders, allowing it to deal more damage to Psychics than they can back, but it does fear Fire Punch from Mr.Mime and Kadabra. Nidoqueen can effectively dispose of any Chansey, Ampharos or Electabuzz that wall and potentially threaten Magneton.

Lastly, there are pokemon that offer offensive support to Magneton, despite not having key resistances. Hypno and Granbull don't resist Nidoqueen's attacks but are fairly safe options against it if they can avoid paralysis or getting crit.
Granbull has a 77.% chance of surviving a 3HKO from Nidoqueen's Earthquake after Spikes damage, and can immediately threaten by setting up Curse or attacking her with Return. Hypno switches in better on special attacks and nearly 2HKOes her with its STAB Psychic or can even put her to sleep with Hypnosis. Magneton has a decently strong matchup against opposing Normal Resistant pokemon such as Omastar and Haunter, which it can OHKO and 2HKO respectively. Magneton is also one of the most consistent answers to Hidden Power Bug Scyther and can even survive an unboosted Hidden Power Ground while OHKOing it in Return with Thunder. Similarly, Kadabra and Mr.Mime also benefit from Magneton's ability to check HP Bug variants of Scyther. Mr.Mime can use Thief to weaken Hypno, Bellossom or Granbull, and make Magneton's time 3HKO or 2HKOing these pokemon a lot easier. It also offers Status in the form of Hypnosis to put Nidoqueen to sleep while both it and Kadabra are able to bait out any of the set up sweepers and use Encore to lock Magneton's checks like Quagsire or Sandslash out from clicking any attacking moves. Magneton also handles Dodrio, who can readily take advantage of these 3 Psychic types' frail defences.
Qwilfish offers Magneton with the much needed offensive support in Spikes, which makes its pseudo-bolt-beam coverage that much more menacing. Like Gyarados, Qwilfish can outspeed Nidoqueen and threaten to 2HKO her and other Ground-types with Hydro pump if healthy enough. Furthermore it learns Haze which can effectively slowdown any setup users that might be getting out of hand, such as Swords Dance Scyther or Kabutops, both of whom Magneton cannot switch in on if the opponent is running Hidden Power Ground.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Magneton has very limited options to run moves besides the commonly seen Rest and Sleep Talk set. There are other options for Hidden power Ice though not advisable in most cases: hidden power Grass can 2HKO Quagsire and 3HKO Piloswine, but Magneton loses valuable coverage against the powerful Nidoqueen, as well as Gligar and Grass types. Hidden Power Fire suffers from similar issues but at the very least allows Magneton to threaten opposing Magneton with a 2HKO, while still dealing super effective damage to Piloswine and Bellossom. Hidden Power Water is nearly identical in terms of coverage to Ice, but is less effective against Grass types as a whole. It should be noted, however, that each of these three options cut into Magneton's bulk by reducing its DVs. Tri-attack is a gimmicky albeit interesting option, since there is a 23% chance of crippling Nidoqueen by inflicting one of either Freeze, Burn or Paralysis to it.
Thunder Wave is an option worth considering, due to how crippling it can be against faster pokemon, or even slow and bulky ones that rely on their ability to click Rest unhindered just to wall Magneton. This set variation may be countered by stall teams which have support from the likes of Chansey to cure status ailments.
Agility has seen usage in conjunction with Substitute over Rest and Sleep Talk, offering it the fringe option of a setup sweeper by granting it the much needed speed boost to tear through teams. This does however put it in a tighter spot against specially defensive pokemon like Hypno, whom Magneton cannot reliably check without the ability to replenish its HP.


Checks and Counters
===================
**Ground types**: thanks to their STAB Earthquakes, all ground types are naturally nearly perfect counters to Magneton if it cannot fight back. Nidoqueen and Piloswine gain tons of momentum and can secure themselves kills with their excellent array of mixed offence. Furthermore, they can regain any health lost from Moonlight and Rest, respectively, while Quagsire can force the player into uncomfortable situations where it has to outplay a potential Belly Drum sweep. Piloswine and Quagsire are not deterred from Hidden Power Ice either but they do fear Hidden Power Grass and are slower than Magneton. Sandslash can be threatening by setting up a Substitute and Swords Dance to sweep, but is slower than Magneton and not bulky enough to survive a 2HKO from Hidden Power Ice, Grass or Water.

**Electric types**: Ampharos not only is bulkier but can also setup a Light Screen and make Magneton's time threatening Psychic types a lot harder. Electabuzz occasionally has Cross Chop, with the potential of crit OHKOing Mag. However, Electabuzz often lack the moveset to be threatening to Magneton's teammates and recover from a paralysis inflicted by Thunder. Both of Magneton's rivals can also run Fire Punch to deal super-effective damage. Opposing Magneton also create an awkward stalemate situation since they resist all of each other's moves unless one has Hidden Power Fire.

**Vileplume and Victreebell**: though probably the softest among Mag's checks, these have the potential to be very annoying matchups. Victreebell and the rare Vileplume are often seen running Hidden Power Ground, which compensates for Mag's immunity to STAB Sludgebomb. They can OHKO magneton after a single Swords Dance. The two don't, however ,like to take repeated hits from Hidden Power Ice and also lose their effectiveness from a well timed paralysis from Thunder.

**Chansey**: Chansey can seize the opportunity to use Heal bell and heal its teammates and wall Magneton, causing it to waste PP. That said, it should be noted that Chansey is unlikely to completely stall it out of its PP without Lighst Screen or other high PP supporting moves.

**Fire types**: Arcanine has that chance to use Fire Blast or Flamethrower to OHKO magneton (or nearly OHKO it) the same applies for the rare Flareon. Magneton does have a chance to 2HKO Arcanine with Thunder after Spikes. Flareon suffers from similar issues but is slower than Magneton.

**Any Hidden Power Ground User**: these include but aren't limited to Scyther, Kabutops, Granbull, Victreebell and occasionally Gyarados. Coincidentally, these pokemon all are users of a setup move or are common recipients of baton pass, hence it is not advisable to take risks from a Hidden Power (although Gyarados generally run Hidden power Flying).

- Written by: [[cherryb0ng, 421511]]
- Quality checked by: [[ Holly, 508601 ], [User, ], [User, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[User, ]]
 
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checks Granbull
Not HP Ground variants.
Even though its STAB move cannot do anything to Nidoqueen, the top mon of the tier, they should be weary of switching into Hidden Power Ice as it deals enough chip damage to cause an opposing player to think twice before switching in one of their best attackers.
This is probably worth moving to the part where you discuss the most common set.

I don't know why you haven't mentioned Reflect anywhere. It could even be slashed with HP Ice on the main set.

Mono-attacking Granbull
The way you word this makes it seem like Granbull is always mono-attacking.

While it also has a greater chance to paralyse as well, Thunderbolt tends to be preferred on Magneton, considering how frequently opposing players are prepared for switching in Nidoqueen, Piloswine or Bellossom to absorb the hit. With this in mind and the fact that Magneton has a poor speed stat, it's best to make the most out of its opportunities to attack and not give further momentum to the opponent with a lucky miss from Thunder.
Not sure what you're trying to say here. If they switch in Piloswine or Nidoqueen, you're not hitting with TBolt either, and it's probably better to click Thunder vs an incoming Bellossom anyway because of paralysis probabilities. You need to say why someone would use TBolt over Thunder other than the obvious "it hits more often in general". Sure you can 2HKO Granbull with Thunder, but you also have to hit two, whereas TBolt is a 3HKO, for example. Use some other examples where Thunder may be better, or when TBolt may be better.

Hidden Power Ice is an obligatory coverage move
It's not obligatory. You can use Reflect as they switch in Nidoqueen and still gain utility from that.

Gyarados is an excellent teammate for Magneton for its ability to dodge Earthquakes and 2HKO Nidoqueen,
What if they predict a generic water type switching in and click Thunder?

Pilowsine perhaps does this job even better thanks to dual stab in both Earthquake and Ice Beam
also doesn't take super effective from HP Ice.

Magneton of course can keep in check the Water types that counter Nidoqueen and Piloswine, such as the Slowtwins, Omastar and Gyarados.
Granbull also switches into Nidoqueen reasonably well so mention this too.

Slowbro and Slowking also pairs well with Magneton as they patch up the holes in its defences and forms a solid core.
They also check HP Ground Scyther, and Magneton can check HP Bug Scyther.

Fighting types: rare but not unheard of.
Slowbro resists Magneton's Fire and Fighting weaknesses
Fighting type attacks are virtually non-existent in this metagame...

with the exception of Sandslash, whom Magneton outspeeds and 2hkoes.
Magneton still loses that 1v1 because it can OHKO. Sandslash can't switch in, sure, but this is quite misleading.


Ampharos and opposing electrics
Electrode doesn't really have a good matchup against Magneton.
 
Not HP Ground variants.

This is probably worth moving to the part where you discuss the most common set.

I don't know why you haven't mentioned Reflect anywhere. It could even be slashed with HP Ice on the main set.


The way you word this makes it seem like Granbull is always mono-attacking.


Not sure what you're trying to say here. If they switch in Piloswine or Nidoqueen, you're not hitting with TBolt either, and it's probably better to click Thunder vs an incoming Bellossom anyway because of paralysis probabilities. You need to say why someone would use TBolt over Thunder other than the obvious "it hits more often in general". Sure you can 2HKO Granbull with Thunder, but you also have to hit two, whereas TBolt is a 3HKO, for example. Use some other examples where Thunder may be better, or when TBolt may be better.


It's not obligatory. You can use Reflect as they switch in Nidoqueen and still gain utility from that.


What if they predict a generic water type switching in and click Thunder?


also doesn't take super effective from HP Ice.


Granbull also switches into Nidoqueen reasonably well so mention this too.


They also check HP Ground Scyther, and Magneton can check HP Bug Scyther.



Fighting type attacks are virtually non-existent in this metagame...


Magneton still loses that 1v1 because it can OHKO. Sandslash can't switch in, sure, but this is quite misleading.



Electrode doesn't really have a good matchup against Magneton.
Took a while but I implemented everything. Caetano93 ty I hope this fits the criteria but I am not sure I noticed the issue to begin with.
I suppose a qc 1/2 is done once I get feedback
 

Caetano93

is a Forum Moderatoris a Past SPL Champion
Moderator
Took a while but I implemented everything. Caetano93 ty I hope this fits the criteria but I am not sure I noticed the issue to begin with.
I suppose a qc 1/2 is done once I get feedback
An example of the correct dex formating for GSC analyses: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/zapdos-qc-2-2-gp-1-2.3673848/
Just copypaste the skeleton for GSC found here and place the texts in the correct places. This is needed to implement correctly the analyses into the smogon dex.
 

Holly

you horrible cheating girl
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
[OVERVIEW]
Magneton is a powerful dual Electric-Steel type with access to limited yet efficient toolset to find a niche in the UU metagame as a special attacking tank that checks non Hidden Power Ground variants of Granbull and Scyther. Being tied for the highest Special attack in the tier with
Kadabra, Magneton uses its phenominal STAB Thunder/Thunderbolt to threaten a good portion of the metagame.
Although Magneton's low speed stat and miserable movepool are certainly nothing to write home about when compared to the other electrics in the tier, namely Ampharos, Electabuzz and Lanturn, Magneton's Steel typing is unique not only because it helps check the fearsome Mono-attacking Granbull but it resists Psychic as well, which appear to be everywhere.
I think you should mention Nidoqueen in here and how it really hurts Magneton’s viability as a whole, its incredibly common and Magneton can’t really do much to it without chipping Nidoqueen with HP Ice on the switch or setting up Reflect for its teammates. I’d also mention it faces competition as a Normal resist from Omastar and Haunter because its slightly worse off against mono Granbull, is OHKOd by HP Ground unlike Omastar, and Magneton also can’t hurt its checks as well as Haunter or Omastar can. Also mention that Ground moves are in general common as coverage on Pokemon like Scyther and Kabutops which is bad. I’d also say that it checks non Fire Punch Mime and Kadabra when you mention non HP Ground Granbull and Scyther instead, because a mon that beats those is a rare and valuable trait.

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Thunder is without a doubt the most powerful move in Magneton's arsenal, allowing it to OHKO Slowbro and Scyther and 2hko Slowking and Granbull (99.3% without spikes). While it also has a greater chance to paralyse as well, Thunderbolt tends to be preferred on Magneton for consistency and will not give up momentum. On the flip side, the 3HKO versus Granbull leaves it with the only option often times being running away or scouting for a possible HP Ground due to Mag's quad weakness to the move. Thunder doesn't solve the matter by any means, although it is more than capable of giving the non Rest-Talk variants of Granbull a run for their money. The chance to paralyse should be something to consider against non-ground types that resist Magneton, such as Bellossom or potentially Electabuzz, which could turn the matchup in its favor against them.
Mention that Thunder has a great chance at 3HKOing Hypno at the start. Thunderbolt is also not preferred over Thunder imo.

Magneton can give a really hard time to opposing special attackers: its STAB can deal more damage to Psychics than a STAB Psychic might do back to it, Haunter suffers from a 4mss in which, more often than not, forces it to run the not very effective Psychic and Thunder, and Slowbro and Slowking cannot switchin at all for fear of a KO. However, Mag users should be mindful of potentially super-effective or neutral attacking moves that some of these pokemon may wield as they can really put a big dent in its defenses, such as the rare Fire punch from Mr.Mime and Hypno and Surf from Slowbro and Slowking, the latter move of which deals enough damage to 2HKO it with Spikes. It's also worthy mentioning that its matchup against opposing electric types leaves much to be desired, since Ampharos can tank everything Magneton uses, setup a Light Screen and potentially 2HKO it with a Fire Punch of its own, and Electabuzz and Lanturn have the potential to cause an awkward matchup, by outspeeding it and threatening it back with Cross Chop and Surf, respectively.
Something like this should be in the overview, not set comments.

Hidden Power Ice is a powerful coverage move granting Magneton the coveted pseudo Bolt-beam coverage, which can be helpful to chip Nidoqueen and Bellossom and has a 35% chance of OHKOing Gligar on the switchin. This seemingly insignificant chip damage can catch an uncareful player off guard, as it can force a Nidoqueen or Bellossom to use Moonlight if they have it, thus conceding momentum to the Magneton user. Reflect can be slashed over Hidden Power Ice, should the player decide to insert Magneton in a defensive core and use the support move before it invites an obvious switchin. The third and fourth move are what make Magneton such a reliable tank: Rest and Sleep talk help grant the slow Magneton with the much needed longevity to continue packing a punch and keep opposing offence from taking advantage of its low health. This also lets it absorb status from the likes of Haunter, Mr.Mime, Hypno and Jumpluff, all of whom tend to lose momentum when faced with it.
Sleep talk lets Magneton continue to keep non-Hidden Power Ground Granbull in check, even after a few Curses.
No issues here.

Team Options
=========
Since Magneton is the normal resist that easily has the hardest time dealing with its checks, it requires defensive support from its teammates as well
as offensive synergy. In fact, Magneton mainly finds its niche in offence teams since there are better candidates on stall both for Electric checks (Amphraros, Chansey) and normal resists (Omastar).
One of the hardest counters for Magneton is Nidoqueen, who is able not only to shrug off a Hidden Power Ice with relative ease on a switchin and threaten to OHKO it with Earthquake, but also to put the player on the backfooting, leaving them to choose between risking taking a Lovely Kiss, a Thunder ,an Ice Beam or a Fire Blast. Having a ground-immune pokemon is beneficial to keep opponents guessing before spamming Earthquake on a whim. Gyarados and Scyther act as offensive checks to Nidoqueen by dodging her Earthquakes threatening to KO her or setup for a sweep, though they risk getting hit by Thunder. Gyarados and Scyther benefit from Magneton's ability take electric moves to handle rough matchups for them such as Haunter or Electabuzz (though this one is dicey). Pinsir acts similarly to Scyther, with the difference that it trades a ground immunity for a ground resistance and can take Thunder and Ice Beam better.
As teammates who can more comprehensively and reliably switchin on Nidoqueen's offence, Granbull, Hypno and Bellossom come to mind. Granbull has a 77.% chance of surviving a 3HKO from Nidoqueen's Earthquake after Spikes damage, which lets it setup a curse or commence a Sleep Talk cycle and potentially hit it for high amounts of damage. Hypno switches in better on special attacks and nearly 2HKO her with its STAB Psychic or even put it to sleep with Hypnosis. Bellossom is bulky enough to take even Nidoqueen's Ice Beams and trading damage for a crippling status move in Sleep Powder or Stun Spore, though it does fear Fire Blast.
Qwilfish offers Magneton with the much needed support in Spikes, which makes its pseudo-bolt-beam coverage that much more menacing. Like Gyarados, Qwilfish can outspeed Nidoqueen and threaten to 2HKO it with Hydro pump if it is healthy. Furthermore it learns Haze which can effectively slowdown any setup users that might be getting out of hand, such as Swords Dance Scyther, whom Magneton cannot switch in on after a single boost if the Scyther player is running Hidden Power Ground. Magneton also has a poor matchup against opposing Electrics, including Magneton itself, who resists every move. Nidoqueen and Piloswine hasve an excellent matchup against electrics and can event threaten back some of Magneton's Ground type checks with Ice Beam or Earthquake. Quagsire acts as a solid check versus Nidoqueen as well as electric types. Magneton of course can keep in check the Water types that counter Nidoqueen and Piloswine, such as the Slowtwins, Omastar and Gyarados.
Slowbro and Slowking also pair well with Magneton as they patch up the holes in its defences against its ground checks and form a solid core. The Slowtwins can rather successfully take on Magneton's Fire weakness in Arcanine and also keeps Nidoqueen and the deadly Quagsire in check while Magneton can act as a soft check against the likes of Hidden Power Bug Scyther and Haunter. Magneton also benefits from their ability to handle Hidden Power Ground variants of Scyther. Blastoise is also very powerful on stall and has the perfect bulk to incentivate switchbacks between itself and Magneton. Furthermore it can use Rapid Spin to make opponents lose any Spikes, a primary asset to wear Normal resists and special walls down.
You need to give examples of Pokemon able to reliably switch into Nidoqueen(Granbull, Blastoise, Slowking) at the start. In the Gyarados and Scyther part, I’d remove Gyarados, as its a p shaky Nidoqueen answer especially seeing as players often click Thunder against Magneton early on as it switches expecting Slowking/Blastoise/Slowbro to come into heavily chip them. I’d mention Gligar instead, as it walls Fire Blast Queen and is not too bad vs HP Ground Scyther. Don’t say Water-types are counters to Nidoqueen as well, as thats not true(especially since you listed Omastar and Gyarados in this group...)

Other Options
=============
Magneton has very limited options to run moves besides the commonly seen Rest and Sleep Talk set. It's hard enough already for it to find a solid niche with this set due to having to compete with other Normal and Bug resistors in Omastar, Haunter and Kabutops in the teamslot for offence oriented teams. Variations of the move Hidden Power, which aren't advisable since there aren't many types it would rather target besides Ground, Grass or Flying (the first two to complement its stab, the latter to be more effective vs Scyther). Besides the only addition over Ice variants of hitting Piloswine super effectively, Hidden Power Water does nothing beneficial for it besides cut into its bulk by reducing its DVs. Hidden Power Dark, while not decreasing any DVs and while striking Psychic types for super effective damage, is not stronger than Tbolt or Thunder and offers less coverage than Ice variants.
Agility has seen usage in conjunction with Substitute over Rest and Sleep Talk, offering it the fringe option of a setup sweeper by granting it the much needed speed boost to tear through teams. The move choice warrants strong checks which can completely eliminate the likes of Nidoqueen, Piloswine or Quagsire. This does however put it in a tighter spot against specially defensive pokemon like Hypno, whom Magneton cannot reliably check without the ability to replenish its HP. Thunderwave could work too for similar reasons, or even as an alternative to Hidden Power but seems less favorable as it invites Ground types in and Chansey for free, and other pokemon fit the paralysis support role better, such as Bellossom.
Remove HP Dark, I don’t know why you’d ever run it. I’d give mention to Sub TWave sets here. I’d also give mention to Tri Attack as a gimmicky option, as it can potentially freeze/burn/paralyse an incoming Nidoqueen.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Nidoqueen and other Ground types**: All ground types are naturally nearly perfect counters to Magneton if it cannot strike back safely. Nidoqueen and Piloswine gain tons of momentum and can secure themselves kills with their excellent array of mixed offence. Furthermore, they can regain any health lost from Moonlight and Rest, respectively, while Quagsire can force the player into uncomfortable situations where it has to outplay a potential Belly Drum sweep. Piloswine and Quagsire are not deterred from Hidden Power Ice either. Sandslash can also pose a problem to teams that try to defend themselves from phyical offence, by virtue of its ability to OHKO Magneton with Earthquake or setup with substitute and Swords Dance. Similarly, Dugtrio may also setup a substitute to gain a significant edge against defensive checks.

**Electric types [besides Electrode]**: Ampharos not only is bulkier but can also setup a Light Screen and make Magneton's time threatening Psychic types a lot harder. Electabuzz occasionally has Cross Chop, with the potential of crit OHKOing Mag.

**Bellossom and Victreebel**l: though probably the softest among Mag's checks, these have the potential to be very annoying matchups. Bellossom's
high SpDef lets it sit on Magneton with relative ease as long as it can get a leech seed and Victreebell are more often than ever seen running Hidden Power Ground, which compensates for Mag's immunity to STAB Sludgebomb.

**Chansey**: Chansey can seize the opportunity to use Heal bell and heal its teammates. However it isn't able to deal Magneton significan damage outside of Seismic Toss.

**Fire types**: Arcanine has that chance to use Fire Blast or Flamethrower to OHKO magneton (or nearly OHKO it) the same applies for the rare Flareon.

**Any Hidden Power Ground User**: these include but aren't limited to Scyther, Kabutops, Granbull, Victreebell and occasionally Gyarados.

**Spikes**: Spikes is one of the few things in the way of letting Magneton live forever, since it has to be healthy in order for it to tank hits from the likes of those fishing for status or special defense drops with Thunder or Psychic.
Dugtrio mention should be removed, it virtually doesn’t exist in GSC UU. I’d mention Magneton can setup Reflect to at least support its teammates as the Ground-types come in. Mention that Electabuzz can also use Fire Punch which also hurts Magneton. I’d also mention Magneton itself in this section as it does wall itself. Bellossom should not be mentioned as a Magneton check, it can’t do anything to Mag in return(HP Ground is only rarely seen on SD Bellossom)and Magneton can cripple it with Thunder para or Thunder Wave as well as PP stall Moonlight with repeated HP Ice. You could mention Vileplume instead, it runs SD HP Ground as its main set. Chansey doesn’t run Seismic Toss in GSC UU, instead it runs Present which can deal good damage to Mag because of its secondary Steel type. Lastly you might as well mention Magmar in the Fire types part.

Implement this and I’ll have a second look cherryb0ng
 
Implement this and I’ll have a second look cherryb0ng
Done. I tried making the writing more fleshed out and deleted some parts.
-I included some of what you said should go in the overview and cleaned the team options section. I kept all the Water types but gave no hint of them being absolute switchins to Nidoqueen anymore. I moved up all checks to Nidoqueen to the beginning so that you could get a quick idea of what Magneton benefits the most from.
(I couldn't understand where else I said Water types were counters for nidoqueen until I saw the section where I considered Ground types).
-I excluded Scyther as considering the two to be great teammates may be a bit of a stretch. I am not sure.
-I removed HP Dark from Other Options and added Tri-attack (LOL)
-I included Magneton in checks and counters, Fire Punch as an option for Ampharos and Electabuzz
-I did NOT mention Present Chansey, since steel typing is physical and only deals a maximum damage of about 30%.
-I removed Dugtrio from checks and added vileplume.

Reeece
 
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Century Express

melodies of life
is a Tutoris a Tiering Contributor Alumnusis a former Tournament Circuit Champion
:gs/Magneton:
[OVERVIEW]
Magneton is a powerful dual Electric-Steel type with access to limited yet efficient toolset to find a niche in the UU metagame as a special attacking tank that checks non Hidden Power Ground variants of Granbull and Scyther as well as non Fire Punch variants of Mr.Mime and Kadabra. Being tied for the highest Special attack in the tier with
Kadabra, Magneton uses its phenominal STAB Thunder/Thunderbolt to threaten a good portion of the metagame.
Although Magneton's low speed stat and miserable movepool are certainly nothing to write home about when compared to the other electrics in the tier, namely Ampharos, Electabuzz and Lanturn, Magneton's Steel typing is unique not only because it helps check the fearsome Mono-attacking Granbull but it resists Psychic as well, which appear to be everywhere. Magneton's relatively low usage, however, stems from its weakness to the very common Ground typing and the fact that it is prone to allowing Nidoqueen to switch in with almost no trouble at all. Furthermore, it finds itself having to compete as a Normal resistant pokemon with the likes of Haunter and Omastar, both of which appear to handle their own checks more effectively and which do not risk being OHKO'd by a Hidden Power Ground after Spikes.

- In "but it resists Psychic as well, which appear to be everywhere", the main examples should a bit more clear. For example, you can mention that Magneton's resistances allow it to act as a solid switch-in or pivot against threats such as Mr. Mime, Hypno and Kadabra.

- In the Overwiew, more specifically in the paragraph where you mention Magneton's flaws, I think it's super important to emphasize (a little more) that Magneton's Steel typing is the root of a lot of it flaws - you're right at mentioning Nidoqueen as one of Magneton's main obstacles, but Ground overall is a very common offensive typing, since it limits Magneton's potential significantly (lots of HP Ground Physical /Mixed Attackers!). I'd give a brief mention to Magneton's poor HP and Special Defense stat too, making him an inconsistent check against Bulky-waters such as Blastoise and Slowking.


[SET]
S. with two eyes open (Sleep Talker)
1. Thunder/Thunderbolt
2. Hidden Power Ice/ Reflect (I think HP Ice as the sole option is the ideal choice here,
3. Rest
4. Sleep Talk
Item: Leftovers

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========
Thunder is without a doubt the most powerful move in Magneton's arsenal, allowing it to OHKO Slowbro (mention Omastar) and Scyther, 2HKO Slowking and Granbull (99.3% without spikes) and even has a 90% chance of 3HKOing Hypno at the start of a match, one of the most valuable feats of any special attacker. Thunderbolt is also quite potent although it misses a few key KO thresholds even with spikes. Generally one may opt for one or the other option depending on how badly they require magneton for its walling capabilities (which may entail choosing the move with more consistent accuracy and a greater amount of PP) or its aptitude for KOing powerful threats. Since Thunderbolt only 3HKO's Granbull, the Magneton user is left with the responsibility of scouting for a possible HP Ground, which it is 4x weak to.* Here, i'd give a small mention to Thunder's higher paralyze ratio, which is another helpful trait to threathen Pokémon such as Electabuzz and Mr. Mime, who lose a big part of their effectiveness if they're paralyzed. Thunderbolt's benchmarks should be showcased too: for example, Thunderbolt's higher accuracy and PP can be quite helpful against Substitute variants of Mr. Mime, and against Bulky-waters (Thunderbolt can easily OHKO Gyarados, has a near-guaranteed chance of OHKOing Dodrio and Qwilfish, and it has significantly improved chances of beating Blastoise, Slowking and Politoed).
Hidden Power Ice is a decent coverage move granting Magneton the coveted pseudo Bolt-beam coverage, which can be helpful to chip Nidoqueen and Bellossom, although it only scratches the 3HKO mark and has a chance to OHKO Gligar. This can be easily brushed off from both Nidoqueen and Bellossom, both of which have access to Moonlight. Reflect can be slashed over Hidden Power Ice, should the player decide to insert Magneton in a defensive core and use the support move before it invites an obvious switchin, such as Nidoqueen or Piloswine. The third and fourth move are what make Magneton such a reliable tank: Rest and Sleep talk help grant the slow Magneton with the much needed longevity to continue packing a punch and keep opposing offence from taking advantage of its low health stat. This also lets it absorb status from the likes of Haunter, Mr.Mime, Hypno, Bellossom and Jumpluff, all of which tend to lose momentum when faced with it. These last examples fit better under Sleep Talk IMO, Rest alone won't be consistent enough against Hypnosis variants Mr. Mime or Haunter, BUT Sleep Talk is perfect against these guys for obvious reasons)
Sleep talk lets Magneton continue to keep non-Hidden Power Ground Granbull in check, even after a few Curses.

Team Options
=========
Since Magneton is the normal resist that has the hardest time dealing with its checks, it requires defensive support from its teammates as well as offensive synergy. In fact, Magneton mainly finds its niche in offence teams since there are better candidates on stall both for Electric checks (Amphraros, Chansey) and normal resists (Omastar).
One of the hardest counters for Magneton is Nidoqueen, who is able not only to shrug off a Hidden Power Ice with relative ease on a switchin and threaten to OHKO it with Earthquake, but also to put the player on the backfooting, leaving them to choose between risking taking a Lovely Kiss, a Thunder ,an Ice Beam or a Fire Blast (This is already mentioned under Checks & Counters, this part should be removed to avoid redundancy). Having a ground-immune pokemon is beneficial to keep opponents guessing before spamming Earthquake on a whim. Gligar may be a valid check for Fire Blast Nidoqueen, since it is immune to Earthquake and Thunder and resists Fire moves but should be weary of a Lovely Kiss, whereas Piloswine is a valid check against Ice beam variants and deals more damage to Nidoqueen. Both pokemon have a decent matchup against the likes of Sandslash as well. Pinsir's typing plays somewhat similarly to Piloswine's, in that it doesn't fear Thunder, Earthquake or Ice beam that much, and in turn can threaten to setup and strike it with Body Slam or Double Edge.
In return, Magneton can threaten common Water types, like Omastar, Gyarados or Qwillfish which threaten Gligar and Piloswine, or Haunter and Crobat, which are very problematic for Pinsir.
Hypno and Granbull don't resist Nidoqueen's attacks but are fairly safe options against it if they can avoid paralysis or getting crit.
Granbull has a 77.% chance of surviving a 3HKO from Nidoqueen's Earthquake after Spikes damage, and can immediately threaten by setting up curse or attacking her with Return. Hypno switches in better on special attacks and nearly 2HKO her with its STAB Psychic or even put her to sleep with Hypnosis. Bellossom is bulky enough to take even Nidoqueen's Ice Beams and trading damage for a crippling status move in Sleep Powder or Stun Spore, though it does fear Fire Blast.
Blastoise is also very powerful on stall and has the perfect bulk to incentivate switchbacks between itself and Magneton. Furthermore it can use Rapid Spin to make opponents lose any Spikes, a primary asset to wear Normal resists and special walls down.
Gyarados and Qwilfish can also make a great addition to Magneton's team. Qwillfish offers Magneton with the much needed support in Spikes, which makes its pseudo-bolt-beam coverage that much more menacing. Like Gyarados, Qwilfish can outspeed Nidoqueen and threaten to 2HKO her and other Ground-types with Hydro pump if healthy enough, though these two should be fearful of Thunder (or even Earthquake in Qwilfish's case). Furthermore it learns Haze which can effectively slowdown any setup users that might be getting out of hand, such as Swords Dance Scyther, whom Magneton cannot switch in on if the Scyther player is running Hidden Power Ground.
Gyarados complements Magneton better in this regard, since it has a decent matchup against both Hidden Power variants of Scyther and can use Roar.
Magneton also has a poor matchup against opposing Electrics, including Magneton itself, who resists every move. Nidoqueen and Piloswine have an excellent matchup against electrics and can event threaten back some of Magneton's Ground type checks with Ice Beam or Earthquake. Quagsire acts as a solid check versus Nidoqueen as well as electric types. Magneton of course can keep in check the Water types that are a nuissance for Nidoqueen and Piloswine, such as the Slowtwins, Omastar and Gyarados.
Slowbro and Slowking also pair well with Magneton as they patch up the holes in its defences against its ground checks and form a solid core. The Slowtwins can rather successfully take on Magneton's Fire weakness in Arcanine and also keeps Nidoqueen and the deadly Quagsire in check while Magneton can act as a soft check against the likes of Hidden Power Bug Scyther and Haunter. Magneton also benefits from their ability to handle Hidden Power Ground variants of Scyther.

- This section has some good examples here and there, but the organization is a big issue here... you should try to stick with some basic and straightforward sinergy partners, and try to keep reader-friendly as possible: for example, you can reserve the first part of this section to mention Bulky-waters. Most of them are good answers against Ground-type such as Nidoqueen, Piloswine and Sandslash, and all of them appreciate Magneton's qualities, since Magneton resists their two main weaknesses. Alongside i'd give a few examples of overlapping sinergies (ex: Gyarados, who not takes advantage of every move aimed at Magneton's weaknesses, but it can work as a excellent pivot or scout against HP Ground variants of Granbull and Scyther; Slowbro or Slowking + Magneton can pivot easily around Granbull and Psychic-types, etc).

- Mentioning Ground-type as Magneton's partners was a very good catch, and I agree that covering Magneton's weakness against other Electric-types is very important. But don't forget to mention how Magneton's resistances cover some of Nidoqueen's weaknesses, such as Granbull, and Psychic-types (Mr. Mime, Hypno).

- Hypno and Magneton have an overlapping sinergy against Psychic-types. Mention how Hypno not only covers Magneton's weakness against Nidoqueen, but how it haves more options to adjust its moveset, since Magneton already acts as a reliable backup against Psychic-types.

- After that, i'd reccomend deserving a brief mention to Grass-types (mostly Bellossom and Jumpluff, though). Both Pokémon are resistant or immune to Magneton's main Ground-type weakness, and both are excellent answers against Quagsire and Sandslash. Jumpluff can pivot around the appropriate moves vs. several set-up sweepers (HP Ground Granbull / Scyther / Kabutops / Victreebel etc) and screw their momentum with the aid of its disrupting moves (Encore, Leech Seed etc). Bellossom isn't consistent against most of these guys though, but at least, it's a reasonably good check / pivot against other Electric-types.

- Granbull's descriptions are looking good!



[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============
Magneton has very limited options to run moves besides the commonly seen Rest and Sleep Talk set. It's hard enough already for it to find a solid niche with this set due to having to compete with other Normal and Bug resistors in Omastar, Haunter and Kabutops in the teamslot for offence oriented teams. (Kinda off-topic, we should focus only on its OOs here). Variations of the move Hidden Power, which aren't advisable since there aren't many types it would rather target besides Ground, Grass or Flying (the first two to complement its stab, the latter to be more effective vs Scyther). Besides the only addition over Ice variants of hitting Piloswine super effectively, Hidden Power Water does nothing beneficial for it and it cut into its bulk by reducing its DVs. Tri-attack is a gimmicky albeit interesting option, since there is a 23% chance of annoying the hell out of (i'd reword this sentence to something like, crippling?) Nidoqueen by inflicting one of either Freeze, Burn or Paralysis.
Thunder Wave is an option worth considering, due to how crippling it can be against faster pokemon, or even slow and bulky ones that rely on their ability to click Rest unhindered just to wall Magneton. This set variation may be countered by stall teams which have support from the likes of Chansey to cure status ailments.
Agility has seen usage in conjunction with Substitute over Rest and Sleep Talk, offering it the fringe option of a setup sweeper by granting it the much needed speed boost to tear through teams. This does however put it in a tighter spot against specially defensive pokemon like Hypno, whom Magneton cannot reliably check without the ability to replenish its HP.

- On Hidden Power section: I'd mention only the Special-type Hidden Powers for this purpose. HP Grass as a last resort against Quagsire, and HP Fire for a super-effective coverage against Piloswine, opposing Magneton and Grass-types. I don't think HP Ground / Flying are mention worthy, both seem to be poor choices, even for OO standards.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Nidoqueen and other Ground types**: All ground types are naturally nearly perfect counters to Magneton if it cannot strike back safely. Nidoqueen and Piloswine gain tons of momentum and can secure themselves kills with their excellent array of mixed offence. Furthermore, they can regain any health lost from Moonlight and Rest, respectively, while Quagsire can force the player into uncomfortable situations where it has to outplay a potential Belly Drum sweep. Piloswine and Quagsire are not deterred from Hidden Power Ice either. Sandslash can also pose a problem to teams that try to defend themselves from phyical offence, by virtue of its ability to OHKO Magneton with Earthquake or setup with substitute and Swords Dance (mention that Sandslash is slower than Magneton, and it doesn't have the same longevity of the other Ground-types).

**Electric types [besides Electrode]**: Ampharos not only is bulkier but can also setup a Light Screen and make Magneton's time threatening Psychic types a lot harder. Electabuzz occasionally has Cross Chop, with the potential of crit OHKOing Mag. Both of these also can run Fire Punch to deal super-effective damage (you should give a brief mention to Electabuzz's flaws, such as the lack of reliable recovery move, and how it's afraid of risking a paralyze against Thunder variants of Magneton). Opposing Magneton also create an awkward stalemate situation since they resist all of each other's moves.

**Vileplume and Victreebel**l: though probably the softest among Mag's checks, these have the potential to be very annoying matchups. Victreebell and the rare Vileplume are often seen running Hidden Power Ground, which compensates for Mag's immunity to STAB Sludgebomb. They can OHKO magneton after a single Swords Dance. (Again, it never hurts to mention that both don't like to take repeated hits from HP Ice, and both threats lose a lot of their effectiveness with a well-timed paralyze from Thunder).

**Chansey**: Chansey can seize the opportunity to use Heal bell and heal its teammates and sit on it, causing it to waste PP. (I'd like to nitpick that Chansey indeed walls Magneton, but it can have a potential PP disavantage as a lastmon, if it's not running Light Screen of Reflect, assuming Magneton decides to use Thunderbolt instead of Thunder).

**Fire types**: Arcanine has that chance to use Fire Blast or Flamethrower to OHKO magneton (or nearly OHKO it) the same applies for the rare Flareon. (Nitpicks: Arcanines outspeeds Magneton, but Thunder has likely chances of 2HKOing Arcanine after Spikes; Flareon has similiar issues, but it's a slight more bulkier, but slower. Everything else is alright).

**Any Hidden Power Ground User**: these include but aren't limited to Scyther, Kabutops, Granbull, Victreebell and occasionally Gyarados. Coincidentally, these pokemon all are users of a setup move or are common recipients of baton pass, hence it is not advisable to take risks from a Hidden Power (although Gyarados generally run Hidden power Flying).

**Spikes**: Spikes is one of the few things in the way of letting Magneton live forever, since it has to be healthy in order for it to tank hits from the likes of those fishing for status or special defense drops with Thunder or Psychic. I'd remove this section to be honest. I think this kind of section is only worth under very specific circumstances (e: Belly Drum users or Pikachu?)
 
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Century Express I completed everything. This analysis turned out to be surprisingly long for me.

Here is what I removed:
  1. A lot of long and drawn-out comments about unnecessary things in the wrong sections, like "blah blah, almost the best normal resist but weak to ground" in Team options.
  2. The strategy comments about "Stall teams" in Set Description, the part about "Nidoqueen shrugging off hits" from Team options, since it was already in checks and counters and other useless crap.
  3. **Spikes** from checks and counters
Here is what I amended:
  1. Overview: I made it more clear that Magneton has low Spdef, HP and speed, and that its weakness to Ground makes it very exploitable by Nidoqueen and how this affects its viability.
  2. Focused more on how its decent at beating Psychics
  3. It can be easily outclassed by Ampharos, Electabuzz or Omastar, Haunter.
  4. SET COMMENTS: The benefits of Thunder and of Thunderbolt
  5. Team Options (THE HARDEST PART): I had to completely rewrite this part because I had a lot of info but it was unorganised. Now it's ordered this way: A checks to Ground types of which A.1) Bulky Waters A.2) Other Ground Resists/Immunes; B) Ground types C) Pokemon that aren't Ground types, Bulky Waters or Ground immunities (Granbull, Hypno, Qwilfish).
  6. Other Options: I fixed the part about Hidden Power, which wasn't clear
  7. Checks and counters: I put in everything you said and also added Fire Punch Hypno, Kadabra and Mr.Mime.
For #5 in my fixes (amendments) should I include Kadabra and Mr.Mime?
 

Holly

you horrible cheating girl
is a Community Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
:gs/Magneton:

[OVERVIEW]
Magneton is a powerful dual Electric-Steel type that is able to check non Hidden Power Ground variants of Granbull and Scyther which dominate the tier, as well as Psychic types that don't have Fire Punch as coverage, such as Kadabra, Mr.Mime, and Hypno. Magneton uses its phenomenal STAB Thunder/Thunderbolt to threaten a good portion of the metagame. It does have a few drawbacks compared to other Electrics in the tier, namely, its limited movepool, its slow speed and poor HP and SpDef stats can make it inconsistent at checking certain pokemon, such as Blastoise, Slowking or Fire Punch variants Mr.Mime and Kadabra. Its quad-weakness to Ground typing and reliance on Hidden Power Ice to damage its checks means it will have a hard time stopping UU’s top threat in Nidoqueen from switching in. Magneton not only has a vast competition with other more popular Electrics, namely Ampharos, Electabuzz and Lanturn, but it finds itself having to compete as a Normal resistant pokemon with the likes of Haunter and Omastar, both of which appear to handle their own checks more effectively and which do not risk being OHKO'd by a Hidden Power Ground after Spikes.

[SET]
name: Sleep Talker
move 1: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Reflect
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers
This part looks fine, but I think its worth mentioning that HP Bug Scyther can just pass +2 attack to Nidoqueen if Magneton switches in as it uses Swords Dance so it can be a risky check.
Set Description
=========
Thunder is without a doubt the most powerful move in Magneton's arsenal, allowing it to OHKO Slowbro, Omastar and Scyther, 2HKO Slowking and Granbull (99.3% without spikes) and even has a 90% chance of 3HKOing Hypno at the start of a match, one of the most valuable feats of any special attacker. Thunder’s relatively high paralysis rate means that it can threaten to cripple many fast pokemon such as Mr.Mime, Electabuzz, Scyther and …, causing them to lose their effectiveness. Thunderbolt is a slightly less potent option but it more accurate. Of the 3 aforementioned OHKO’s, the only one that is still possible is Omastar. Its higher accuracy rate means it actually has a higher chance of OHKOing Gyarados, a near guaranteed chance of OHKOing Qwilfish and Dodrio, and a more consistent chance of beating Blastoise, Politoed and Slowking in the 1v1. Thunderbolt’s lower base power, however, means it is less consistent against Granbull, who is still slower, but survives a 2HKO and has a chance of OHKOing it back with Hidden Power Ground.
Hidden Power Ice is a decent coverage move granting Magneton the coveted pseudo Bolt-beam coverage, which can be helpful to chip Nidoqueen and Bellossom, although it only scratches the 3HKO mark, and has a chance to OHKO Gligar. This can be easily brushed off from both Nidoqueen and Bellossom, both of which have access to Moonlight. Reflect can be slashed over Hidden Power Ice, should the player decide to insert Magneton in a defensive core and use the support move before it invites an obvious switchin, such as Nidoqueen or Piloswine.

The third and fourth move are what make Magneton such a reliable tank: Rest and Sleep talk help grant the slow Magneton with the much needed longevity to continue packing a punch and keep opposing offence from taking advantage of its low health stat. This also lets it absorb status from the likes of Haunter, Mr. Mime, Hypno, Bellossom and Jumpluff, all of which tend to lose momentum when faced with it.
Sleep talk lets Magneton continue to keep non-Hidden Power Ground Granbull in check, even after a few Curses.
Id remove the 99.3% thing and just say it can 3HKO Hypno in general. Remove the Scyther mention in mons crippled by paralysis bc it dies anyway and mention that some defensive Pokemon like Bellossom can be ruined by Thunder paralysis instead.
[/QUOTE]
Team Options
=========
Since Magneton is the normal resist that has the hardest time dealing with its checks, it requires defensive support from its teammates as well as offensive synergy. Magneton’s Electric and Steel typing means it is highly susceptible to Earthquake and the common Hidden Power Ground and that it has a hard time handling the likes of Nidoqueen, Piloswine, Sandslash and Quagsire. Since it can’t do much to threaten them, it requires defensive support from its teammates as well as offensive synergy. Bulky Waters such as Blastoise, Slowking and Slowbro and Politoed are a convenient solution to the threat of Ground types. In return these pokemon benefit from Magneton’s presence, because it resists both of their weaknesses, namely Grass and Electric. Blastoise is faster than Nidoqueen, can threaten it with Surf and offers the benefit of Rapid Spin support to remove Spikes. Gyarados’s ground immunity complements Magneton very well, enabling a high amount of pivoting between the two. Although it fears Thunder from Nidoqueen, it is still quite powerful against the likes of Piloswine and Quagsire and can even switch in on HP ground variants of Scyther or Granbull. Slowbro and Slowking are defensively apt at handling threats like Granbull or opposing Psychic types without an Electric move and also Nidoqueen. For checks against other Ground types like Sandslash or Quagsire, there are Bellossom, Pinsir, and Gligar who resist or are immune to Earthquake. Bellossom offers support by threatening Magneton’s Ground-type checks with a status move or a STAB Razor leaf and Pinsir, who resists Earthquake can threaten Piloswine with Submission or Quagsire and Nidoqueen with a Double Edge or a Body Slam, but both of these pokemon fear Fire Blast. Magneton has a chance to threaten many of their checks such as Scyther, Qwilfish, Crobat and Haunter using Thunder.

Some of the pokemon that the Sleep Talk variants of Magneton seem to offer support to are Ground types themselves, like Piloswine, Sandslash, Nidoqueen and Quagsire, who offer physical or mixed offence to help cleave through the special walls that stand in Magneton’s way, such as Chansey and Ampharos, in exchange for protection against Grass and Water types. Piloswine, while being a valid check to non-Fire Blast versions of Nidoqueen, can depend on Magneton’s Thunder to OHKO Gyarados and Blastoise. Blastoise, Politoed and Qwilsifh can pose a threat to Quagsire and Sandslash as well, because they learn Haze which can nullify their attack boosts from Swords Dance and Belly Drum. Magneton also acts as a decent check against Bellossom, which it can threaten with Hidden Power Ice. Nidoqueen may struggle to get past Granbull and hates facing Psychic types, especially the Bulky Hypno and the powerful Mr.Mime and Kadabra. As already stated, Magneton is quite apt at handling these threats thanks to its Steel typing and STAB Thunders, allowing it to deal more damage to Psychics than they can back, but it does fear Fire Punch from Mr.Mime and Kadabra. Nidoqueen can effectively dispose of any Chansey, Ampharos or Electabuzz that wall and potentially threaten Magneton.

Lastly, there are pokemon that offer offensive support to Magneton, despite not having key resistances. Hypno and Granbull don't resist Nidoqueen's attacks but are fairly safe options against it if they can avoid paralysis or getting crit.
Granbull has a 77.% chance of surviving a 3HKO from Nidoqueen's Earthquake after Spikes damage, and can immediately threaten by setting up Curse or attacking her with Return. Hypno switches in better on special attacks and nearly 2HKOes her with its STAB Psychic or can even put her to sleep with Hypnosis. Magneton has a decently strong matchup against opposing Normal Resistant pokemon such as Omastar and Haunter, which it can OHKO and 2HKO respectively. Magneton is also one of the most consistent answers to Hidden Power Bug Scyther and can even survive an unboosted Hidden Power Ground while OHKOing it in Return with Thunder. Similarly, Kadabra and Mr.Mime also benefit from Magneton's ability to check HP Bug variants of Scyther. Mr.Mime can use Thief to weaken Hypno, Bellossom or Granbull, and make Magneton's time 3HKO or 2HKOing these pokemon a lot easier. It also offers Status in the form of Hypnosis to put Nidoqueen to sleep while both it and Kadabra are able to bait out any of the set up sweepers and use Encore to lock Magneton's checks like Quagsire or Sandslash out from clicking any attacking moves. Magneton also handles Dodrio, who can readily take advantage of these 3 Psychic types' frail defences.
Qwilfish offers Magneton with the much needed offensive support in Spikes, which makes its pseudo-bolt-beam coverage that much more menacing. Like Gyarados, Qwilfish can outspeed Nidoqueen and threaten to 2HKO her and other Ground-types with Hydro pump if healthy enough. Furthermore it learns Haze which can effectively slowdown any setup users that might be getting out of hand, such as Swords Dance Scyther or Kabutops, both of whom Magneton cannot switch in on if the opponent is running Hidden Power Ground.
Part looks fine.

Checks and Counters
===================
**Nidoqueen and other Ground types**: thanks to their STAB Earthquakes, all ground types are naturally nearly perfect counters to Magneton if it cannot fight back. Nidoqueen and Piloswine gain tons of momentum and can secure themselves kills with their excellent array of mixed offence. Furthermore, they can regain any health lost from Moonlight and Rest, respectively, while Quagsire can force the player into uncomfortable situations where it has to outplay a potential Belly Drum sweep. Piloswine and Quagsire are not deterred from Hidden Power Ice either. Sandslash can be threatening by setting up a Substitute and Swords Dance to sweep, but is slower than Magneton and not bulky enough to survive a 2HKO from Hidden Power Ice, Grass or Water.

**Electric types [besides Electrode]**: Ampharos not only is bulkier but can also setup a Light Screen and make Magneton's time threatening Psychic types a lot harder. Electabuzz occasionally has Cross Chop, with the potential of crit OHKOing Mag. However, Electabuzz often lack the moveset to be threatening to Magneton's teammates and recover from a paralysis inflicted by Thunder. Both of Magneton's rivals can also run Fire Punch to deal super-effective damage. Opposing Magneton also create an awkward stalemate situation since they resist all of each other's moves unless one has Hidden Power Fire.

**Vileplume and Victreebell**: though probably the softest among Mag's checks, these have the potential to be very annoying matchups. Victreebell and the rare Vileplume are often seen running Hidden Power Ground, which compensates for Mag's immunity to STAB Sludgebomb. They can OHKO magneton after a single Swords Dance. The two don't, however ,like to take repeated hits from Hidden Power Ice and also lose their effectiveness from a well timed paralysis from Thunder.

**Chansey**: Chansey can seize the opportunity to use Heal bell and heal its teammates and wall Magneton, causing it to waste PP. That said, it should be noted that Chansey is unlikely to completely stall it out of its PP without Lighst Screen or other high PP supporting moves.

**Fire types**: Arcanine has that chance to use Fire Blast or Flamethrower to OHKO magneton (or nearly OHKO it) the same applies for the rare Flareon. Magneton does have a chance to 2HKO Arcanine with Thunder after Spikes. Flareon suffers from similar issues but is slower than Magneton.

**Any Hidden Power Ground User**: these include but aren't limited to Scyther, Kabutops, Granbull, Victreebell and occasionally Gyarados. Coincidentally, these pokemon all are users of a setup move or are common recipients of baton pass, hence it is not advisable to take risks from a Hidden Power (although Gyarados generally run Hidden power Flying).
I think you can just say Ground-types instead of Nidoqueen and other Ground-types. Also mention that Quagsire fears HP Grass and Piloswine should be weary of switching into too many HP Waters / HP Grass’s since its slower. Similar to the last section, I think Electric-types works better than Electric types [besides Electrode]

Good work, dont forget to add credits btw, my thing is Holly, 508601. QC 1/2 when done
 
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Estarossa

grater demon
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:gs/Magneton:

[OVERVIEW]
Magneton is a powerful dual Electric-Steel type that is able to temporarily wall or check non Hidden Power Ground variants of Granbull and Scyther which dominate the tier, as well as Psychic types that don't have Fire Punch as coverage in all honesty Idt Fire Punch is really relevant enough to actually mention for any except the Kadab (and even then?) so you could literally just wriite non-Fire punch Kadabra instead, such as Kadabra, Mr.Mime, and Hypno (but Scyther can always pass an attack boost to a teammate like Nidoqueen) move this to just after the Scyther mention since it's weirdly disjointed atm. Magneton uses its phenomenal STAB Thunder/Thunderbolt to threaten a good portion of the metagame. It does have a few drawbacks compared to other Electrics in the tier, namely, its limited movepool, its slow speed and poor HP and SpDef stats can make it inconsistent at checking certain pokemon, such as Blastoise, Slowking would mention specifically that their surfs can 3HKO it, and slowtwins can actually 2HKO it after Spikes or Fire Punch variants Mr.Mime and Kadabra. would rather mention non-HP Ground Gyarados or something here instead of these two as they r pretty niche, think one mention in this overview of Fire Punch versions is more then enough. Its quad-weakness to Ground typing and reliance on Hidden Power Ice to damage its checks means it will have a hard time stopping UU’s top threat in Nidoqueen from switching in. Magneton not only has a vast competition with other more popular Electrics, namely Ampharos, Electabuzz and Lanturn, would find it relevant to connect the info here a little more, ie. ampharos having much better dmg rolls into the waters and buzz being less fodder to nidoqueen due to outspeeding and having psychic but it finds itself having to compete as a Normal resistant pokemon with the likes of Haunter and Omastar, both of which appear to handle their own checks more effectively and which do not risk being OHKO'd by a Hidden Power Ground after Spikes. Fwiw haunter runs this risk a decent bit vs HP ground bull, its just not guaranteed after lefties + spikes (but still heavily in bulls favour).

[SET]
name: Sleep Talker
move 1: Thunder / Thunderbolt
move 2: Hidden Power Ice / Reflect
move 3: Rest
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Leftovers

Set Description
=========
Thunder is without a doubt the most powerful move in Magneton's arsenal, allowing it to OHKO Slowbro, Omastar and Scyther, 2HKO Slowking and Granbull and even has a solid chance of 3HKOing Hypno at the start of a match, one of the most valuable feats of any special attacker I'm not sure what you mean by "at the start of a match", its relevant here that it has a 90% chance to 3HKO (~31% after accuracy) in general because it lets it break through a rest cycle against non LS Hypno, this isn't really start of match dependent. Thunder’s relatively high paralysis rate means that it can threaten to cripple many fast pokemon such as Mr.Mime, Electabuzz and Kadabra, as well as defensive pokemon, such as Bellossom. Thunderbolt is a slightly less potent but more accurate option. Unlike Omastar, Slowbro and Scyther no longer risk getting 2HKO'd by Thunderbolt. ??? do u mean OHKO'd lol Its higher accuracy rate means it actually has a higher chance of OHKOing Gyarados, a near guaranteed chance of OHKOing Qwilfish and Dodrio, and a more consistent chance of beating Blastoise, Politoed and Slowking in the 1v1. Thunderbolt’s lower base power, however, means it is less consistent against Granbull, who is still slower, but survives a 2HKO and has a chance of OHKOing it back with Hidden Power Ground. Very important to note that it relies completely on crits to break through Hypno unlike Thunder.
Hidden Power Ice is a decent coverage move granting Magneton the coveted pseudo Bolt-beam coverage, which can be helpful to chip Nidoqueen and Bellossom, although it only scratches the 3HKO mark, and has a chance to OHKO Gligar. This can be easily brushed off from both Nidoqueen and Bellossom, both of which have access to Moonlight. Reflect can be used slashed over Hidden Power Ice, should the player decide to insert Magneton in a defensive core and use the support move before it invites an obvious switchin, such as Nidoqueen or Piloswine. Explain why this would actually be helpful, ie. that it makes switching into them a lot more comfortable. also worth noting it gives you a second good move to pull vs granbull when sleep talking.

The third and fourth move are what make Magneton such a reliable tank: Rest and Sleep talk help grant the slow Magneton with the much needed longevity to continue packing a punch and keep opposing offence from taking advantage of its low health stat. This also lets it absorb status from the likes of Haunter, Mr. Mime, Hypno, Bellossom and Jumpluff, all of which tend to lose momentum when faced with it.
Sleep talk lets Magneton continue to keep non-Hidden Power Ground Granbull in check, even after a few Curses.

Team Options
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Since Magneton is the normal resist that has the hardest time dealing with its checks, it requires defensive support from its teammates as well as offensive synergy. Magneton’s Electric and Steel typing means it is highly susceptible to Earthquake and the common Hidden Power Ground and that it has a hard time handling the likes of Nidoqueen, Piloswine, Sandslash and Quagsire. Since it can’t do much to threaten them, it requires defensive support from its teammates as well as offensive synergy. Bulky Waters such as Blastoise, Slowking and Slowbro and Politoed are a convenient solution to the threat of Ground types. In return these pokemon benefit from Magneton’s presence, because it resists both of their weaknesses, namely Grass and Electric. more relevant to give specific examples than just state type charts, in particular since it helps cover stuff like Mime for them too not just electric-types themselves. Blastoise is faster than Nidoqueen, can threaten it with Surf and offers the benefit of Rapid Spin support to remove Spikes. Gyarados’s ground immunity complements Magneton very well, enabling a high amount of pivoting between the two. This doesn't really make much sense as a general statement, especially since gyarados isn't really a (good) nidoqueen switch-in, "enabling a high amount of pivoting" is a very generic statement that doesn't really mean anything and iis very confusiing to read, would just nuke that and go into the next sentence. Although it fears Thunder from Nidoqueen, it is still quite powerful against the likes of Piloswine and Quagsire and can even switch in on HP ground variants of Scyther or Granbull. definitely not a granbull switch-in. Slowbro and Slowking are defensively apt at handling threats like Granbull or opposing Psychic types without an Electric move and also Nidoqueen. For checks against other Ground types like Sandslash or Quagsire, there are Bellossom, Pinsir, and Gligar who resist or are immune to Earthquake. Bellossom offers support by threatening Magneton’s Ground-type checks with a status move or a STAB Razor leaf and Pinsir, who resists Earthquake can threaten Piloswine with Submission or Quagsire and Nidoqueen with a Double Edge or a Body Slam, but both of these pokemon fear Fire Blast. Magneton has a chance to threaten many of their checks such as Scyther, Qwilfish, Crobat and Haunter using Thunder. There's a lot of info here on Ground-types, but I feel like the last section kinda just goes a bit over the top when you start focusing on niche pokemon like sandslash and pinsir, especially when you've already talked about solid sandslash checks already in stoise/bro. You could easiliy condense this last point with a more generic focus on how bellossom/pluff + gligar can cover the various forms of nidoqueen, deal with quagsire through grass stab / encore / counter. can also mention how gliigar can assist magneton in its hypno mu by thiefing it, and how bello appreciates a more reliable psychic check.

Some of the pokemon that the Sleep Talk variants of Magneton this is the only variiant of Magneton thats slashed/mentioned on the set? seem to offer support to are Ground types themselves, like Piloswine, Sandslash, Nidoqueen and Quagsire, who offer physical or mixed offence to help cleave through the special walls that stand in Magneton’s way, this is them offering support to magneton then not the other way around? such as Chansey and Ampharos, in exchange for protection against Grass and Water types. don't list off a type chart, give relevant examples. Piloswine, while being a valid check to non-Fire Blast versions of Nidoqueen, can depend on Magneton’s Thunder to OHKO Gyarados and Blastoise. Blastoise, Politoed and Qwilsifh can pose a threat to Quagsire and Sandslash as well, because they learn Haze which can nullify their attack boosts from Swords Dance and Belly Drum. Haze Stoise/Toed aren't relevant. Magneton also acts as a decent check against Bellossom, which it can threaten with Hidden Power Ice. Nidoqueen may struggle to get past Granbull and hates facing Psychic types, especially the Bulky Hypno and the powerful Mr.Mime and Kadabra. As already stated, Magneton is quite apt at handling these threats thanks to its Steel typing and STAB Thunders, allowing it to deal more damage to Psychics than they can back, but it does fear Fire Punch from Mr.Mime not relevant and Kadabra. Nidoqueen can effectively dispose of any Chansey, Ampharos or Electabuzz that wall and potentially threaten Magneton. its not really that good vs chansey in all honesty, and none of these pokemon really switch in so its not "disposing of them", more so just checking them.

This whole paragraph is a huge mess and very difficult to read and digest information from at the length its at, especially when you start it off in a really confusing and roundabout way. There's also absolutely no proper mention (outside of a very very brief glancing when its a hugely relevant point) of how Magneton handles Rest Talk Granbull for Piloswine or Nidoqueen here which is hugely relevant for those two. You oversell just hhow good Magneton is int these Water-types in this section imo, you definitely want a solid secondary answr alongside considering Magneton is pretty frail and vulnerable to certain 3HKOs, and 2HKOs after Spikes from some waters (esp with LS up).


Lastly, there are pokemon that offer offensive support to Magneton, despite not having key resistances. Hypno and Granbull don't resist Nidoqueen's attacks but are fairly safe options against it if they can avoid paralysis or getting crit.
Granbull has a 77.% chance of surviving a 3HKO from Nidoqueen's Earthquake after Spikes damage, and can immediately threaten by setting up Curse or attacking her with Return. Hypno switches in better on special attacks and nearly 2HKOes her with its STAB Psychic or can even put her to sleep with Hypnosis. Mention Light Screen Hypno and how it lets Magneton better check Water types, and how it can form a screens core to support offensive teammates this way. Magneton has a decently strong matchup against opposing Normal Resistant pokemon such as Omastar and Haunter, which it can OHKO and 2HKO respectively. Magneton is also one of the most consistent answers to Hidden Power Bug Scyther heavily disagree seeing as you just get baton pass'd on into nidoqueen lol and can even survive an unboosted Hidden Power Ground while OHKOing it in Return with Thunder. Similarly, Kadabra and Mr.Mime also benefit from Magneton's ability to check HP Bug variants of Scyther. Mr.Mime can use Thief to weaken Hypno, Bellossom or Granbull, and make Magneton's time 3HKO or 2HKOing these pokemon a lot easier. It also offers Status in the form of Hypnosis to put Nidoqueen to sleep while both it and Kadabra are able to bait out any of the set up sweepers and use Encore to lock Magneton's checks like Quagsire or Sandslash out from clicking any attacking moves. Magneton also handles Dodrio, who can readily take advantage of these 3 Psychic types' frail defences. Would talk about how Rest Talk Mime can provide you with a solid check to a lot of the tiers Water-types, helping deal with Magneton's poor special defense. This is a pretty important point in general about how Mag needs secondary water answers.
Qwilfish offers Magneton with the much needed offensive support in Spikes, which makes its pseudo-bolt-beam coverage that much more menacing. Like Gyarados, Qwilfish can outspeed Nidoqueen and threaten to 2HKO her and other Ground-types with Hydro pump if healthy enough. Furthermore it learns Haze which can effectively slowdown any setup users that might be getting out of hand, such as Swords Dance Scyther or Kabutops, both of whom Magneton cannot switch in on if the opponent is running Hidden Power Ground.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
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Magneton has very limited options to run moves besides the commonly seen Rest and Sleep Talk set. There are other options for Hidden power Ice though not advisable in most cases: hidden power Grass can 2HKO Quagsire and 3HKO Piloswine, but Magneton loses valuable coverage against the powerful Nidoqueen, as well as Gligar and Grass types. Hidden Power Fire suffers from similar issues but at the very least allows Magneton to threaten opposing Magneton with a 2HKO, while still dealing super effective damage to Piloswine and Bellossom. Hidden Power Water is nearly identical in terms of coverage to Ice, but is less effective against Grass types as a whole. It should be noted, however, that each of these three options cut into Magneton's bulk by reducing its DVs. Tri-attack is a gimmicky albeit interesting option, since there is a 23% chance of crippling Nidoqueen by inflicting one of either Freeze, Burn or Paralysis to it.
Thunder Wave is an option worth considering, due to how crippling it can be against faster pokemon, or even slow and bulky ones that rely on their ability to click Rest unhindered just to wall Magneton. This set variation may be countered by stall teams which have support from the likes of Chansey to cure status ailments. Give some relevant examples of Pokemon that switch into Magneton that are crippled by Thunder Wave.
Agility has seen usage in conjunction with Substitute over Rest and Sleep Talk, offering it the fringe option of a setup sweeper by granting it the much needed speed boost to tear through teams. This does however put it in a tighter spot against specially defensive pokemon like Hypno, whom Magneton cannot reliably check without the ability to replenish its HP.


Checks and Counters
===================
**Ground types**: thanks to their STAB Earthquakes, all ground types are naturally nearly perfect counters to Magneton if it cannot fight back. Nidoqueen and Piloswine gain tons of momentum and can secure themselves kills with their excellent array of mixed offence. Furthermore, they can regain any health lost from Moonlight and Rest, respectively, while Quagsire can force the player into uncomfortable situations where it has to outplay a potential Belly Drum sweep. Piloswine and Quagsire are not deterred from Hidden Power Ice either but they do fear Hidden Power Grass and are slower than Magneton. In general would not bring up OO options like this in checks and counters. Sandslash can be threatening by setting up a Substitute and Swords Dance to sweep, but is slower than Magneton and not bulky enough to survive a 2HKO from Hidden Power Ice, Grass or Water.

**Electric types**: Ampharos not only is bulkier but can also setup a Light Screen and make Magneton's time threatening Psychic types a lot harder. Electabuzz occasionally has Cross Chop, with the potential of crit OHKOing Mag. However, Electabuzz often lack the moveset to be threatening to Magneton's teammates and recover from a paralysis inflicted by Thunder. Both of Magneton's rivals can also run Fire Punch to deal super-effective damage. Opposing Magneton also create an awkward stalemate situation since they resist all of each other's moves unless one has Hidden Power Fire.

**Vileplume and Victreebell**: though probably the softest among Mag's checks, then this should be the last point in the checks and counters not the 3rd? Checks and Counters should go in order from most relevant to least relevant. these have the potential to be very annoying matchups. Victreebell and the rare Vileplume are often seen running Hidden Power Ground, which compensates for Mag's immunity to STAB Sludgebomb. They can OHKO magneton after a single Swords Dance. The two don't, however ,like to take repeated hits from Hidden Power Ice and also lose their effectiveness from a well timed paralysis from Thunder.

**Chansey**: Chansey can seize the opportunity to use Heal bell and heal its teammates and wall Magneton, causing it to waste PP. That said, it should be noted that Chansey is unlikely to completely stall it out of its PP without Lighst Screen or other high PP supporting moves.

**Fire types**: Arcanine has that chance to use Fire Blast or Flamethrower to OHKO magneton (or nearly OHKO it) the same applies for the rare Flareon. Magneton does have a chance to 2HKO Arcanine with Thunder after Spikes. Flareon suffers from similar issues but is slower than Magneton. Also basically non existent and should be the very last point after plume/vic.

**Any Hidden Power Ground User**: these include but aren't limited to Scyther, Kabutops, Granbull, Victreebell and occasionally Gyarados. Coincidentally, these pokemon all are users of a setup move or are common recipients of baton pass, hence it is not advisable to take risks from a Hidden Power (although Gyarados generally run Hidden power Flying).

- Written by: [[cherryb0ng, 421511]]
- Quality checked by: [[ Holly, 508601 ], [User, ], [User, ]]
- Grammar checked by: [[User, ]]
Let me know when you've implemented this and I'll have another look.

Atm a lot of this is very hard to read due to a lot of overwriting, its really hard to draw out the important points when you for instance spend a whole paragraph just talking about nidoqueen/piloswine as partners in the team options and jump between ideas without much bridging. Would work more on the flow of your writing here. (This is also relevant to your Piloswine analysis too)
 

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