Male & Intersex Genital Mutilation (aka Circumcision)

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So it's 2018 and this abomination is still legal and widely practiced in almost every juristiction around the world. It's disturbing how it has been normalized to such an extent that most people are not only just indifferent toward the issue, but even defend it. All of the excuses that people use to try to justify this ancient, barbaric ritual are absurd. Routinely cutting off normal, healthy parts of a defenseless baby's body is so cowardly and unethical that you'd think anyone with even the slightest sense of morality would understand that. This is one of the few issues in the world that always gets me really depressed when I think about it and makes me hate the human race. Routine genital mutilation of any form has no place in a modern, civilized society, and we should all fight to have it stamped out and criminalized.
 

Raidx

Banned deucer.
I don't see circumcision as an issue honestly. I've never even heard of anyone complaining about the fact that they're circumsized. I'm circumsized and I don't really give a shit about it; it does literally no harm and makes zero difference in life. Also considering circumcision is mainly done out of religious ritual, it'd be a big "fuck you and your religion" to fight to banish the practice, not to mention it doesn't affect you whatsoever so it's kinda selfish to strike against such an insignificant thing because of your own opinion. If it was something absurd like child slavery or trafficking or some shit where there's constant suffering, then yes that'd be something that requires immediate action, but something so little like circumcision which is a one time thing (that can't even be remembered anyways due to infantile amnesia, so that experience is a non-factor) that makes basically no difference in the long-term is pointless to me. To each their own, anyways.
 

Jimbo

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wow ... op that post is like, really serious. Circumcision reduces the risk of Urinary Tract infections in boys, as well as reduces risk of transmission of HIV, HPV, HSV2, and syphilis. I understand that doing something permanent to a baby (that in and of itself is not without risks) is not ideal, I think it is within the rights of a parent and physician to make that decision if the goal is as above.
 

EV

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I don't see circumcision as an issue honestly. I've never even heard of anyone complaining about the fact that they're circumsized. I'm circumsized and I don't really give a shit about it; it does literally no harm and makes zero difference in life.
Botched circumcisions can disfigure and damage the penis irreparably. So there are risks involved, but honestly I don't know frequently it occurs.
 
I don't see circumcision as an issue honestly.
You don't see a blatant violation of a persons right to bodily integrity as an issue? Would you also be ok with a parent choosing to cut off their infant's ear lobes, removing their tonsils and removing their appendix straight after birth as well? After all, we can do without them and they might cause problems later on in life, so why not just get rid of them now? It's the same scenario, the latter examples just don't have centuries of dogma reinforcing them.
I've never even heard of anyone complaining about the fact that they're circumsized.
I know a LOT of people who are very resentful that they were mutilated as children without their consent. I also know many more others who don't necessarily have that same strong resentment, but still wish they'd be given the chance to experience what it is like to have intact genitalia as nature intended.
I'm circumsized and I don't really give a shit about it
Whether or not you care that you were circumsized doesn't mean that others don't, and doesn't make it any less wrong. Your parents should not have done that to you, and they had no way of knowing whether you would approve of it or not.
it does literally no harm and makes zero difference in life
Circumcision certainly does cause harm, which you can verify in detail by consulting almost any anatomy textbook. The foreskin contains upward of 10,000 fine-touch nerve endings, making it an erogenous zone which creates an added sensation during sex/masturbation. It also protects the sensitive glans by keeping it moist (preventing keratinization) and shielding it from abrasive damage, among many other functions.

The absence of the foreskin can also affect the manner in which one can comfortably masturbate, as many guys who are cut require a lubricant in order to do so. Indeed, this was one of the reasons that circumcision was championed in the 19th century as it was thought to discourage and delay masturbation, which was viewed negatively at the time. Furthermore, there are many cool tricks such as "docking" and "ballooning" that can't be done without a foreskin, and it provides added functionality during sex. For example, your partner can do things like pluck your frenulum (which is often entirely removed during a circumcision) with their tongue or a finger and swirl their tongue around the inside of your foreskin (feels great, trust me).

Circumcisions can also be botched, and I've witnessed many tragic stories (one of which was from a user on this very forum who I was once close friends with) whereby the recipients of the operation had to live with permanent disfigurement and shame for the rest of their lives. It's estimated that hundreds of botched circumcisions happen every year in the US, which is a sickening number of people to inflict severe suffering upon for no sane reason whatsoever.
Also considering circumcision is mainly done out of religious ritual, it'd be a big "fuck you and your religion" to fight to banish the practice, not to mention it doesn't affect you whatsoever so it's kinda selfish to strike against such an insignificant thing because of your own opinion.
Freedom of religion does not and should not grant anyone the right to impose their beliefs upon anybody else, which is exactly what is happening when somebody circumcises for that reason. Who says that the child will share the same religious views as their parents? What about their own freedom to choose what, if any, religion they subscribe to? Additionally, freedom of religion should NEVER take precedence over the fundamental human rights of another human being, in this case, the right to bodily integrity.
If it was something absurd like child slavery or trafficking or some shit where there's constant suffering, then yes that'd be something that requires immediate action
Mutilating the genitals of defenseless infants absolutely IS absurd, and comparing it to things like slavery and trafficking is utterly pointless. Our society has already partially recognized the absurdity of it, which is the reason we already have laws in place that prohibit all forms of Female Genital Mutilation, no matter what kind (and yes, there are forms of FGM that are less severe in terms of loss of functionality when compared to MGM and IGM, but all forms of routine cutting are fundamentally wrong for the same primary reasons regardless). Those laws need to be extended to encompass all forms of genital cutting against children of all sexes. It is sexist that our current system only protects people born as female, because everybody should have the right to keep the normal, healthy genitals they were born with.
but something so little like circumcision which is a one time thing (that can't even be remembered anyways due to infantile amnesia, so that experience is a non-factor) that makes basically no difference in the long-term is pointless to me. To each their own, anyways.
Circumcision is not a "little" issue, and it's not a "one-time-thing" either, since it's a permanent body modification that a person is forced to live with for the rest of their lives. So, stop trying to rationalize this vile, medieval practice, and realise that we're talking about the rights of children, who should never have something like this willingly inflicted upon them. Get over yourself and join the fight.
 

Kalalokki

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Just a question: what's this thread supposed to be discussing? It seems more like a statement rather than an opening for some sort of discussion between pro and anti. I'm uncircumcised myself and quite happy with it, not common at all here in Sweden if not for religious reasons.
 
Get over yourself and join the fight.
I mean you seem so passionate about this cause. What if I want to mutilate my penis and make it look more appealing to the eye. I personally think it looks good. I don't want Johnson and the Juice crew to look bad and shady with a hood on now do I.
 

Adamant Zoroark

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Contrary to popular belief, I am perfectly okay with male circumcision

So long as you're the one calling the shots for yourself and not for someone else

I could write a 20-page doctorate thesis on this topic, but I'll spare you from the brutal details. I'll just leave it with a few things

  1. Male circumcision only got popularized in the West because John Harvey Kellogg (yes, the cereal guy) wanted to stop kids from masturbating
  2. The risks of it done on neonates are almost certainly understated; some (example: cut too tight and therefore causes painful erections) can take years to be properly diagnosed and no study follows up that far
  3. Some of the benefits reek of people simply coming up with after-the-fact justifications for it; examples: penile cancer is far too rare even in uncut men to even consider circumcision as a prophylaxis, and as for UTIs, if your prophylaxis for infections has a non-negligible chance of causing an infection, it's a bad prophylaxis. The one credible one is STDs, and even then it's hardly a justification to do it to infants because by the time they're old enough to be sexually active, they are old enough to call the shots on their own behalf
  4. Someone who isn't circumcised and wants to be can always go get it done; aside from half-assed skin stretching solutions or waiting for regenerative medicine to solve the issue, someone who is circumcised but doesn't want to be is fucked.
  5. Yes, there are people who don't like being circumcised (some of you already know about one of them, and their username's initials are AZ), and I guarantee that the reason it doesn't get talked about much is because the people who are fear getting shamed for it. Can you help them? Well, probably not, but I've encountered people who do the exact opposite.
If any of you ask: Yes, I've been to therapy; I stopped going because my therapist showed that she had no clue how to help
 
wow ... op that post is like, really serious.
And why shouldn't it be? It's an extremely serious issue, and the most bizarre thing that's still legal and accepted by society at large.
Circumcision reduces the risk of Urinary Tract infections in boys
For starters, since circumcision involves the removal of a part of the body, it is a form of amputation. Amputation is the most extreme form of treatment for any condition, and should only ever be performed as a last resort if a) not doing so would place the life of the patient at immediate risk, or b) there is no other form of treatment available. A urinary tract infection is a relatively minor problem which can easily be treated with medication such as anti-biotics, so performing a circumcision as prophylaxis against getting one is incredibly inappropriate. Doing so also only reduces the chance of obtaining a UTI by a trivial amount, in no way is it even close to preventing one entirely.

Also worth noting is that the incidence of UTI's for boys aged 0-7 is around 2%, so it's very uncommon among them, meanwhile the rate for girls in that same age group is around 8%, so it makes no sense at all to mutilate boys for this reason when we treat far more girls just fine without mutilating them.
as well as reduces risk of transmission of HIV, HPV, HSV2, and syphilis.
Thankfully, there are quite a few countries around the world who don't practice routine cutting, such as Japan, China, Spain and Denmark, and they also have some of the lowest prevalences of HIV and other STI's in the world, much lower than many countries that cut their children such as the US. It's well known that circumcision is no substitute for safe-sex practices such as condom use. The only sane and effective way to reduce the prevalence and transmission of STI's is through education and the provision of medical aid. Proclaiming circumcision as an effective solution to this issue is just intellectual dishonesty.
I understand that doing something permanent to a baby (that in and of itself is not without risks) is not ideal, I think it is within the rights of a parent and physician to make that decision if the goal is as above.
Parents and physicians should definitely not have the right to amputate a healthy part of another persons body without their consent, and as I have explained above, there is never a valid reason to routinely cut the genitals of a child, no matter their sex. There is a huge amount of misinformation out there, and sadly many parents are fooled into believing that routinely cutting their son or intersex child is the right choice, which it never is. A lot of parents are unfortunately gullible and ignorant, and that's why the law needs to protect all children against this, because they obviously cannot protect themselves.
 
Parents and physicians should definitely not have the right to amputate a healthy part of another persons body
No see here is where you begin treating the newborn as if its there decision. If its a medical practice then shouldn't it be the parents and the doctors decision to do it to there new born or should they wait several years and have the child decide for themselves. It wasn't my decision to get my Tonsils or wisdom teeth taken out, it was my parents decision. Furthermore I don't understand why you are arguing this with us when instead you should be talking to doctors who practice this.

that's why the law needs to protect all children against this, because they obviously cannot protect themselves.
Why is the law not protecting them now if parents are so missinformed and Circumcision is wrong? How come more people aren't standing up to politicians and saying that this is wrong? Actually how come you aren't professing your beliefs to lawmakes and other politicians so you can be heard?
 
No see here is where you begin treating the newborn as if its there decision. If its a medical practice then shouldn't it be the parents and the doctors decision to do it to there new born or should they wait several years and have the child decide for themselves. It wasn't my decision to get my Tonsils or wisdom teeth taken out, it was my parents decision.
You're confusing routine MGM with legitimate medical emergencies. If the child has a medical situation that could warrant the amputation of the foreskin, that's an entirely different story, and in that case the parents would of course be in a position where they can decide on going through with the procedure since it would be done for a legitimate reason. I can safely presume that your tonsils and wisdom teeth weren't just removed simply because your parents wanted them to be, but because you had some kind of infection or condition that warranted that course of action. The same should be true for a childs genitals.
Furthermore I don't understand why you are arguing this with us when instead you should be talking to doctors who practice this.
Because the more people that become aware of the stupidity of circumcision, the better. Laws aren't changed overnight, and in the meantime, if what I disseminate happens to be read by somebody who is expecting a child or knows somebody who is, and that leads to sparing even one child from being violated, then that's worth it.
How come more people aren't standing up to politicians and saying that this is wrong? Actually how come you aren't professing your beliefs to lawmakes and other politicians so you can be heard?
People are now connecting with politicians and saying that this is wrong, and thankfully the number of people who are against circumcision is growing, as evidenced by the fact that circumcision rates are declining. For instance, the rates for Australia were once as high as 80% in the 1960's, but today fewer than 15% of newborns are being cut. The practice has just been so deeply normalized that it is going to take time for things to change, but they will. I have already contacted my local MP about this issue, who was supportive of change, and I plan on sending a draft for a bill outlawing male and intersex genital mutilation for reasons of non-medical significance alongside a letter that rigorously supports that position to as many of the politicians in my both my own and other countries as I can.
 
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Jimbo

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I mean, I guess it's a form of amputation, but so is removing a skin tag or an extra finger or toe? By using the word amputation you're trying to equate this to removing a limb which is illogical and inflammatory.

Re: UTIs, Lower urinary tract infections are "relatively minor," but pyelonephritis is not -- It is a serious infection that can lead to longterm kidney damage among other complications like ARDS and septic shock. While UTIs in the general male population are rare, UTIs is circumcised and otherwise structurally normal males are "virtually nonexistent" to use the words of an attending pediatrician I worked with just last week.
 
Word of the day: mutilation

I’m circumcised but that’s partially due to the fact that my urethra ended in the wrong spot when I was born and the doctors needed some spare skin for the operation. Personally I’m quite satisfied with my surgically perfect penis.
 
I too worry about the aesthetics of my child's penis to the extent that I feel the need to irreversibly cut a piece of it off
If that’s in response to me, they didn’t get me cut because they wanted me to have a nice dick they had me cut so that my penis could be reconstructed after moving my urethra to where it was supposed to be. If they didn’t I’d be peeing sideways.
 
it isnt a response to you its a response to the multiple people this thread saying they would circumcise the kids for aesthetic reasons
 
Am I the only one that thinks a circumcised penis is way more gross than an uncircumcised one? The thought of not having that skin around, leaving the glans perpetually exposed makes me uncomfortable...it would be like not being able to sheathe your weapon :pikuh:
 

Celticpride

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I know a LOT of people who are very resentful that they were mutilated as children without their consent. I also know many more others who don't necessarily have that same strong resentment, but still wish they'd be given the chance to experience what it is like to have intact genitalia as nature intended.
Assuming you're not talking about some online circlejerk, how the fuck does this ever come up in conversation?
 
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