ORAS OU Me and My Ploofy - Balance w/ Mega Altaria

[TheCuttingEdge]

~Me and My Ploofy <3~ ​

Hi all, I'm a predominately cartridge player that builds his teams within the Smogon tiers, typically OU. After Gen IV, my only real ladder time was spent building test teams to breed in-game, using getting to 1600ish as a rough measure of success that the build is solid enough. The main reason for the RMT this time is that getting to this build was a lengthy process, meaning I didn't test it on ladder to its full potential before the Greninja Suspect started. Plus, with Greninja most likely on his way out, I might have to consider changes to this team.

The original idea was drawn from the previous "ORAS Good Cores" thread, where a Balanced core of Mega Altaria + Jirachi was posted. While it didn't generate a lot of discussion there, I decided to work with it.

Changes will be explained in bold + blackened.

Altaria @ Altarianite

​

Ability: Cloud Nine
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpD​

Bold Nature​

- Hyper Voice​

- Flamethrower​

- Heal Bell​

- Roost

Part 1 of the core. While the Bulky Dragon Dance set is still the most popular, M-Altaria's bulk is just spectacular, allowing her to whittle down many threats alongside Jirachi. She provides some key requirements for Balance with her ability to take Knock Offs for the team, resisting Volt Switch and U-Turn, and being able to absorb/cure status for the team. I opted for mixed bulk over full physical to allow her to take on a bit more variety of threats to the team. However, I have tried both spreads and the loss of physical bulk is definitely noticeable.

EV's adjusted to bring back some more Physical bulk, as a lot of what Altaria wants to check as her role in the core is more weighted to that side.

Jirachi @ Leftovers

EVs: 252 HP / 224 SpD / 32 Spe
Careful Nature
- Iron Head
- Thunder Wave
- Wish
- U-Turn​

Jirachi forms the core with Mega Altaria, notably checking the Lati twins and spreading Paralysis through the enemy Pokes, which is greatly needed for this team. Iron Head for STAB, to threaten Fairies, and when i need to skill my way to victory against certain pokes with ParaFlinch. Passing wishes to the bulky members of the team that lack their own reliable recovery, while passing them cleanly by U-Turning into them is a huge boon. The core alone can be hard to break, and many matches have been won by grinding the remaining opponents down after the only pokes to threaten them have been removed.

Hippowdon @ Leftovers

​

EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD​

Impish Nature​

- Stealth Rock​

- Earthquake​

- Stone Edge​

- Slack off

Replacing Lando-T based on the excellent advice from Albacore . Hippowdon can actually beat Bisharp, is less concerned by Ice Punches since he doesn't suffer the 4x weakness, and can face down Mega Metagross that lack Grass Knot. He's less dependant on the core for healing as well. While the loss of the EQ immunity for Jirachi and Tentacruel is noticed, Hippo feels more stable overall, and Lando-T switches always very massively telegraphed.

Tentacruel @ Black Sludge

EVs: 252 HP / 236 SpD / 20 Spe
Calm Nature
- Scald
- Acid Spray
- Rapid Spin
- Knock Off/Toxic Spikes
An underrated Special wall, and a full-stop to the most common Greninja build at the moment (though that probably won't matter for long) I struggled to fit a spinner/Defogger in the team for a while, and nearly opted not to, but the addition of Talonflame demanded one. Mandatory Scald for STAB and status spreading for the core to grind down with, Acid Spray for added insurance against Fairies. Works surprisingly well with Mega Alt too on switches with the lowered SpD on other targets, allowing her to threaten things she might not otherwise pressure enough. Still torn over the last slot, extra poison damage is useful to the team but not being able to Paralyze or burn a target has cost a couple of matches.

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak

EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost
I wanted some priority with the ability to clean lategame, or to simply take an opportunity to tear massive holes in a team for the rest to wear down. SD Talonflame can do both of these, helping revenge kill targets and cover Grass types like Mega Venusaur and Chestnaught. The slow U-Turner work well to bring him in safely. EV spread may be off again but IIRC this allows me to creep Mega Pinsir's Quick Attack, which i feel is a good benchmark despite his lower usage.

EV's and Nature adjusted to allow speed-creeping of Thundurus, and most other Talonflames.

Greninja @ Life Orb

EVs: 40 Atk / 216 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Gunk Shot
- Dark Pulse
- Low Kick
- Ice Beam

Currently testing Keldeo and Manaphy in place of Gren, both for his likely imminent departure and to help more in Stall matchups. Still not 100% certain as to what I want to do at the moment.​

Threatlist:
​

A menace to the team. Lando's Intimidate only makes him stronger, and one good entry and he'll 6-0. Threatens both elements of the core.

This guy is a struggle to check. Landorus needs to be healthy or the heavy damage can break through easily, and while i have other checks, they struggle to switch in safely.

This guy, and Stall in general when played well. They play the endurance and recovery game better than I can, and Talonflame is the only real pressure for M-Venu.

Just like my own one, if a SD gets up, I'll struggle to stop him. A major pain point with a lot of this and the next one though is lack of speed.

When under rain, he's scary. He has an attack for the entire team basically.

+ Speed in general. I'm no stranger to slower teams, I enjoy Stall quite a lot actually, but I really feel the Speed deficiency with this team at times. It will be a little more exaggerated with Greninja possibly going, but hopefully his departure brings the need for higher Speed tiers down a touch.

Any help that can be given to improve the team is greatly appreciated. I'm only attached to the core of M-Altaria + Jirachi, so if any other members need to change be sure to let me know.
​

 

[Albacore]

One big threat to your team which you eitehr forgot to mention or didn't notice is Bisharp. Your do have 2 checks to it, Greninja and Talonflame. However, Talonflame has to win a bunch of 50/50s to beat it, and Greninja can actually get OHKOed by +2 Sucker Punch. In fact, Bisharp is often used to pivot into Greninja as it Ice Beams or Gunk Shots and either KO it with Sucker Punch or Pursuit trap it. And since Intimidate actually powers up Bisharp, Landorus-T can't stop it either. Bisharp just runs through your team with a lot of ease, so you need to deal with that.
As you said, Mega-Metagross looks quite scary since it can easily switch in on Altaria and wear down Landorus-T until it breaks, though Talonflame and Greninja are pretty good checks, so you can deal with it if you manage to prevent it from switching in too much.
Ice Punch Mega-Lopunny I guess could be annoying but you should be fine vs it, Altaria can take an Ice Punch pretty well (though it needs to be kept healthy which is not always easy) and Talonflame can revenge kill it worst comes to the worst.
SD Talonflame basically sweeps your team with Lando-T weakened (just needs to be at around 50-60%), and you can't always guarantee you'll be able to wishpass to it so be very careful.
Thundurus looks really scary too, especially Nasty Plot variants since Jirachi can't just Wish stall them out, once Altaria is weakened nothing switches into a TBolt and then takes a following HP Ice. Mega-Venusaur can also be pretty difficult to handle since your best check is Talonflame who does not like Sludge Bomb at all, just make sure you have Liquid Ooze as opposed to Clear Body.

These are really the only major threats to your team I could spot, and a few of them can be fixed by running Hippowdon over Landorus-T. Hippowdon is basically a lot like Landorus-T in what it checks and counters, however, it has reliable recovery so it can't get worn down as easily. Most importantly, since it lacks Intimidate it actually beats Bisharp, and also checks Thundurus and walls Ice Punch Lopunny. It deals with Mega-Metagross quite well, however some carry Grass Knot so be very careful. Yes, you do lose the ability to U-Turn into Greninja or Talonflame which kinda sucks, but you cover a few weaknesses in the process so I think it's worth it.
If you still want to keep Landorus-T however, a spread of 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Speed enables you to outspeed Adamant Bisharp and therefore avoid getting hit by a Knock Off. You can also run a spread 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 Spe to speed creep Jolly Bisharp, however, it's not really worth it since you lose out on a lot of bulk in the process. The big problem with making Landorus-T faster is that Talonflame sweeps you more easily in return.
Also, you should probably run a spread of 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Speed with a Jolly nature on Talonflame, this enables it to outspeed Thundurus as well as most other Talonflames.


I can definitely see how stall teams can be a problem, since your main offensive powerhouses (Talonflame and Greninja) aren't particularly good against stall. And as you said, a Greninja ban seems likely at this point, so replacing Greninja would make sense. A simple change you could make is running Choice Specs Keldeo over Greninja. This also gives you a very good check to Bisharp in the process. Since you are much weaker to Mega-Venusaur than you are to Latis, Hidden Power Flying would make sense on that set. You can even opt for a Life Orb Keldeo with Taunt, to put pressure on stall teams and actually beat Slowbro, who is often used as a Keldeo counter on Stall, however this renders you weaker to MVenusaur and forces Keldeo to get worn down a lot. The big problem with Keldeo is that it makes you more vulnerable to Mega-Metagross. I think an even better option would be Manaphy. It deals a ton of damage to Stall teams, can lure Mega-Venusaur via Psychic, and doesn't fare too badly against Mega-Metagross either. Although it is far less effective against offensive teams, this team already looks very strong against offense so this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Finally, for the Altaria spread, since most threats Altaria is supposed to deal with are physically based, I would run a little more physical defense. Try a spread of, 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpD with a Bold nature, this is enough to survive Modest Fire Blast from Charizard Y which enables you to stall it out until it misses. This makes you a bit weaker to Thundurus (which isn't really a problem if you're using Hippowdon), but enables you to deal with pretty much everything else Altaria is supposed to deal with better.

sets

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD (a spread of 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD also works, you avoid the OHKO from +2 MPinsir but can be 2HKO'd by +2 LO HP Ice from Thundurus after SR, the difference in bulk is really tiny. Simply maxing out physical defense is also an option to take physical hits really well in general, it really depends on what you struggle with the most)
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Slack Off

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Taunt

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance
- Psychic

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine (to switch into YZard better pre-mega)
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpD
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Heal Bell
- Roost

Hope this helps!

 

[TheCuttingEdge]

One big threat to your team which you eitehr forgot to mention or didn't notice is Bisharp. Your do have 2 checks to it, Greninja and Talonflame. However, Talonflame has to win a bunch of 50/50s to beat it, and Greninja can actually get OHKOed by +2 Sucker Punch. In fact, Bisharp is often used to pivot into Greninja as it Ice Beams or Gunk Shots and either KO it with Sucker Punch or Pursuit trap it. And since Intimidate actually powers up Bisharp, Landorus-T can't stop it either. Bisharp just runs through your team with a lot of ease, so you need to deal with that.
As you said, Mega-Metagross looks quite scary since it can easily switch in on Altaria and wear down Landorus-T until it breaks, though Talonflame and Greninja are pretty good checks, so you can deal with it if you manage to prevent it from switching in too much.
Ice Punch Mega-Lopunny I guess could be annoying but you should be fine vs it, Altaria can take an Ice Punch pretty well (though it needs to be kept healthy which is not always easy) and Talonflame can revenge kill it worst comes to the worst.
SD Talonflame basically sweeps your team with Lando-T weakened (just needs to be at around 50-60%), and you can't always guarantee you'll be able to wishpass to it so be very careful.
Thundurus looks really scary too, especially Nasty Plot variants since Jirachi can't just Wish stall them out, once Altaria is weakened nothing switches into a TBolt and then takes a following HP Ice. Mega-Venusaur can also be pretty difficult to handle since your best check is Talonflame who does not like Sludge Bomb at all, just make sure you have Liquid Ooze as opposed to Clear Body.

These are really the only major threats to your team I could spot, and a few of them can be fixed by running Hippowdon over Landorus-T. Hippowdon is basically a lot like Landorus-T in what it checks and counters, however, it has reliable recovery so it can't get worn down as easily. Most importantly, since it lacks Intimidate it actually beats Bisharp, and also checks Thundurus and walls Ice Punch Lopunny. It deals with Mega-Metagross quite well, however some carry Grass Knot so be very careful. Yes, you do lose the ability to U-Turn into Greninja or Talonflame which kinda sucks, but you cover a few weaknesses in the process so I think it's worth it.
If you still want to keep Landorus-T however, a spread of 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Speed enables you to outspeed Adamant Bisharp and therefore avoid getting hit by a Knock Off. You can also run a spread 252 HP / 76 Def / 180 Spe to speed creep Jolly Bisharp, however, it's not really worth it since you lose out on a lot of bulk in the process. The big problem with making Landorus-T faster is that Talonflame sweeps you more easily in return.
Also, you should probably run a spread of 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Speed with a Jolly nature on Talonflame, this enables it to outspeed Thundurus as well as most other Talonflames.


I can definitely see how stall teams can be a problem, since your main offensive powerhouses (Talonflame and Greninja) aren't particularly good against stall. And as you said, a Greninja ban seems likely at this point, so replacing Greninja would make sense. A simple change you could make is running Choice Specs Keldeo over Greninja. This also gives you a very good check to Bisharp in the process. Since you are much weaker to Mega-Venusaur than you are to Latis, Hidden Power Flying would make sense on that set. You can even opt for a Life Orb Keldeo with Taunt, to put pressure on stall teams and actually beat Slowbro, who is often used as a Keldeo counter on Stall, however this renders you weaker to MVenusaur and forces Keldeo to get worn down a lot. The big problem with Keldeo is that it makes you more vulnerable to Mega-Metagross. I think an even better option would be Manaphy. It deals a ton of damage to Stall teams, can lure Mega-Venusaur via Psychic, and doesn't fare too badly against Mega-Metagross either. Although it is far less effective against offensive teams, this team already looks very strong against offense so this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Finally, for the Altaria spread, since most threats Altaria is supposed to deal with are physically based, I would run a little more physical defense. Try a spread of, 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpD with a Bold nature, this is enough to survive Modest Fire Blast from Charizard Y which enables you to stall it out until it misses. This makes you a bit weaker to Thundurus (which isn't really a problem if you're using Hippowdon), but enables you to deal with pretty much everything else Altaria is supposed to deal with better.

sets

Hippowdon @ Leftovers
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 252 HP / 84 Def / 172 SpD (a spread of 252 HP / 112 Def / 144 SpD also works, you avoid the OHKO from +2 MPinsir but can be 2HKO'd by +2 LO HP Ice from Thundurus after SR, the difference in bulk is really tiny. Simply maxing out physical defense is also an option to take physical hits really well in general, it really depends on what you struggle with the most)
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Slack Off

Landorus-Therian (M) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 168 Def / 88 Spe
Impish Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- U-turn

Talonflame @ Sharp Beak
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 88 HP / 252 Atk / 168 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Brave Bird
- Flare Blitz
- Roost

Keldeo @ Choice Specs
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Hidden Power [Flying]

Keldeo @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Scald
- Secret Sword
- Hydro Pump
- Taunt

Manaphy @ Leftovers
Ability: Hydration
EVs: 96 HP / 252 SpA / 160 Spe
Timid Nature
- Scald
- Tail Glow
- Rain Dance
- Psychic

Altaria @ Altarianite
Ability: Cloud Nine (to switch into YZard better pre-mega)
EVs: 248 HP / 156 Def / 104 SpD
Bold Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower
- Heal Bell
- Roost

Hope this helps!

Firstly, thank you very much for the detailed and insightful rate.

Hippowdon is a huge help, and was something I considered before. I guess I got too caught up in having EQ/Earth Power Immunities that I skipped him over in favour of the easier choice to slot on the team. Adding him and already loving it. Do you think that the only immunity to cover the others being Talonflame is an issue? Or should Hippowdon just "take them on the chin" and it should be fine overall?

Now while I updated the threats somewhat, one thing I wanted your opinion on was the Speed issue. With Greninja leaving the team, it does cut some speed down. Do you think that should impact the choice between Keldeo/Manaphy? I like to avoid Choice-locking where I can, but I definitely understand their value. Keldeo sits a little better in that regard.

 

[Albacore]

Well, Hippowdon takes most Ground type moves very well already, and you already have a ground immunity in Talonflame, so I don't think it should be too big a problem. By the way, I forgot to mention this but you can run Toxic to deal with Landorus-T better as well as cripple Rotom-W switching which can otherwise be pretty annoying, you can't beat MPinsir in return though. Also max defense is needed to actually beat Charizard-X so that's something else to keep in mind.

The choice between Keldeo and Manaphy basically boils down to wether you prefer immediate power or the ability to completely break down stall. I recommend trying both of them and seeing which you prefer