Mediocre-Mons (VENOMOTH BANNED!)

So Xatu looks pretty cool - its one of the hardest hitting special attackers in the tier (Base 95 is the highest SpA in the tier), and it has a really good speed of 95, only being outsped by the 98's and 97's. Magic Bounce is really cool here too, as it can't be paralyzed by status moves or anything. Here's a cool set imo


Xatu @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Heat Wave / Shadow Ball
- U-turn / Shadow Ball
- Roost / Shadow Ball

Also, is no one going to mention Eviolite and how it's a thing? The only mention of eviolite is slowpoke, which is a very scary mon.

EDIT: VIVILLON IS HERE GG
I think you mean venomoth
 

EV

sksksksk
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So Xatu looks pretty cool - its one of the hardest hitting special attackers in the tier (Base 95 is the highest SpA in the tier), and it has a really good speed of 95, only being outsped by the 98's and 97's. Magic Bounce is really cool here too, as it can't be paralyzed by status moves or anything. Here's a cool set imo


Xatu @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Heat Wave / Shadow Ball
- U-turn / Shadow Ball
- Roost / Shadow Ball

Also, is no one going to mention Eviolite and how it's a thing? The only mention of eviolite is slowpoke, which is a very scary mon.

EDIT: VIVILLON IS HERE GG
Xatu is legit. It can set up Calm Minds pretty quickly and get to work. It laughs at Venomoth and Sableye, it's faster and has SE STAB for Nidoqueen, and doesn't even feel Malamar's Superpowers. It has a really diverse pool from dual screens, Wish, U-turn, good special attacks, Roost, Trick, HAZE even. Top tier imo.
 
Made my first team. Especially looking forward to using Diggersby.
=== Mediocremons Team 1 ===
Frogadier @ Life Orb
Ability: Protean
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Ice Beam
- Hydro Pump
- Dark Pulse
- Taunt

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 4 SAtk / 252 HP / 252 Def
Bold Nature
- Soft-Boiled
- Calm Mind
- Moonblast
- Shadow Ball

Eelektrik @ Eviolite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 252 SAtk / 252 HP / 4 Atk
Quiet Nature
- Knock Off
- Giga Drain
- U-turn
- Discharge

Fletchinder
Ability: Gale Wings
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Acrobatics
- Swords Dance
- Roost
- Will-O-Wisp

Diggersby @ Lum Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Earthquake
- Return
- Stone Edge

Chatot @ Life Orb
Ability: Tangled Feet
EVs: 252 Spd / 252 SAtk / 4 HP
Timid Nature
- Boomburst
- Defog
- Roost
- Hidden Power [Ground]
No Chatter on Chatot because Chatter is annoying and Chatot needs to get rid of Rocks and Steel types.
Diggersby will work really well with Cheek Pouch. Here is another set I have in mind:
Diggersby @ Salac Berry/Liechi Berry
Ability: Cheek Pouch
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spd / 4 HP
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance/Agility
- Earthquake
- Return/Quick Attack
- Stone Edge/Wild Charge
P.S. How do you make spoiler tags on Smogon?
 
0 Atk Smeargle Explosion vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pikachu: 177-208 (83.4 - 98.1%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
0- Atk Hustle Corsola Head Smash vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Pikachu: 271-321 (127.8 - 151.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Sniper Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pikachu on a critical hit: 733-864 (347.3 - 409.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252+ SpA Luvdisc Hydro Pump vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pikachu: 171-202 (81 - 95.7%) -- 56.3% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Farfetch'd Brave Bird vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Pikachu on a critical hit: 210-247 (99.5 - 117%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Ferroseed Giga Drain vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Pikachu: 144-169 (68.2 - 80%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of spikes
TL;DR Pikachu is so god damn frail, anything that lives a hit or is sashed wins.
If you are trying to tank hits with Pikachu, you are doing everything wrong.
Sashes can be breaked by Entry Hazards and Fake Out. Substitute can be used to have a one-time protection against every hit. Encore can create free turns, which can be used to set up Substitutes or Nasty Plots. Also:

+2 252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite (Pokemon with 99/99/99 Defenses) 172-204 (42.7 - 50.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This is the highest bulk that is theoretically possible not counting Sandstorm boosts. It can't avoid a 2HKO from a +2 Pikachu.
 
I don't think Diggersby is worth a damn in this meta. It might have Swords Dance but it still has only 56 base attack, is slowish, not that bulky and has average at best defensive typing, meaning you won't often get a chance to setup. It's a shame because I love Diggersby.
 

Snaquaza

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Weepinbell @ Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature
- Sleep Powder
- SolarBeam
- Sludge Bomb / Sludge Wave
- Weather Ball

Weepinbell Hype! With Vulpix (Which is pretty horrible) or any Manual Sun setter, this destroys. It has a good 85 Special Attack stat and hits surprisingly hard with it's high-powered moves. You even have Sleep Powder if you can't beat something in a single turn. Sludge Wave is worth using over Sludge Bomb at times as Weepinbell has lackluster defenses so usually won't survive it if he doesn't KO something. It can 2HKO pretty much everything in the tier under sun and works amazingly against offense, but struggles a bit against stallier teams. A good partner for it is Solar Power Charmeleon who can break most of the things that avoid the OHKO.

252+ SpA Weepinbell Sludge Wave vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Clefable: 198-234 (50.2 - 59.3%) -- 76.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ SpA Weepinbell Solar Beam vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kingdra: 168-198 (57.7 - 68%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ SpA Weepinbell Solar Beam vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Nidoqueen: 184-217 (47.9 - 56.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
 
If you are trying to tank hits with Pikachu, you are doing everything wrong.
Sashes can be breaked by Entry Hazards and Fake Out. Substitute can be used to have a one-time protection against every hit. Encore can create free turns, which can be used to set up Substitutes or Nasty Plots. Also:

+2 252+ SpA Light Ball Pikachu Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite (Pokemon with 99/99/99 Defenses) 172-204 (42.7 - 50.7%) -- 96.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

This is the highest bulk that is theoretically possible not counting Sandstorm boosts. It can't avoid a 2HKO from a +2 Pikachu.
good luck getting up a nasty plot.
 
good luck getting up a nasty plot.
still hitting as hard as Rayquaza and being fast as fuck is a big selling point, very little survives a Volt Tackle.
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 201-237 (51 - 60.1%) -- 88.3% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Volt Tackle vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Abomasnow: 144-171 (37.5 - 44.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock (mind you that's a relatively bulky resist, and gets 2HKOed by Volt Tacke after SR)


Nidoqueen is the only counter(Pika only get Surf in GenIV, you can't transfer a Surf mon in Gen V)

252 Atk Light Ball Pikachu Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Nidoqueen: 139-164 (36.1 - 42.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

If Pika will get again Surf at some point in the future then not even Nidoqueen will claim to be able to counter it(but that's theorymon)
4 SpA Light Ball Pikachu Surf vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Nidoqueen: 172-204 (44.7 - 53.1%) -- 26.6% chance to 2HKO

tldr Although Pikachu can't switch on anything but electric, it itself is impossible to switch into unless you have Nidoqueen, meaning you have to sac something to it.
 

Snaquaza

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Sableye is a huge threat in this metagame and outside Clefable nearly all counters/checks make you lose momentum, so they're hard to run for offensive teams. This however, is a great check to Sableye and a surprisingly dangerous threat in general.

Murkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Speed
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch

This Murkrow lasts surprisingly long for a Pokemon with 60/42/42 Defenses, a Life Orb and a recoil STAB move. That is because of it's ability Prankster, with it it gets priority substitute to prevent Status Moves and gives it momentum against switchins. On top of that it also gets Roost to prevent it from fainting in a pitch. As soon as it's behind a sub it can nuke to opponent with Brave Bird and use Sucker Punch against well.. anything you need it against. (Faster frail threats) It's EV'd in HP rather than Speed as most of it's moves are priority anyway, but you can edit it so it can outspeed any threat to your team. It's also, as mentioned a great counter to Sableye as it resists it's STAB (Foul Play hurts though) and it can avoid WoW with Substitute, afterwards you can freely Brave Bird it. If you want you can run Eviolite, but in my opinion it's generally not worth it.

The Eevee General could you add this to the OM Index? :)
 

chimp

Link Together With All
Sableye is a huge threat in this metagame and outside Clefable nearly all counters/checks make you lose momentum, so they're hard to run for offensive teams. This however, is a great check to Sableye and a surprisingly dangerous threat in general.

Murkrow @ Life Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 252 Atk / 8 Speed
Careful Nature
- Substitute
- Roost
- Brave Bird
- Sucker Punch

This Murkrow lasts surprisingly long for a Pokemon with 60/42/42 Defenses, a Life Orb and a recoil STAB move. That is because of it's ability Prankster, with it it gets priority substitute to prevent Status Moves and gives it momentum against switchins. On top of that it also gets Roost to prevent it from fainting in a pitch. As soon as it's behind a sub it can nuke to opponent with Brave Bird and use Sucker Punch against well.. anything you need it against. (Faster frail threats) It's EV'd in HP rather than Speed as most of it's moves are priority anyway, but you can edit it so it can outspeed any threat to your team. It's also, as mentioned a great counter to Sableye as it resists it's STAB (Foul Play hurts though) and it can avoid WoW with Substitute, afterwards you can freely Brave Bird it. If you want you can run Eviolite, but in my opinion it's generally not worth it.

The Eevee General could you add this to the OM Index? :)
Murkrow was a massive threat in LC so I can see it being one here as well. The most dangerous set (atleast in LC) was MixedKrow with Brave Bird/Heat Wave/Dark Pulse/HP Grass or filler. It was insane. I could see it being used well especially since it seems like there aren't a whole lot of rock types in the metagame.

I have to say this metagame looks really fun. One pokemon that I think might be good is Garbodor. Good attack and defenses all around, and Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Rock Polish (lolwut), Spikes, Explosion and good offensive coverage in Drain Punch, Dark Pulse, and Seed Bomb. Weak Armor might be fun.
 

Snaquaza

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Okay, after a lot of testing, I've decided to Suspect Clefable.

It was inevitable, an OU Pokemon in such a metagame would be strong. So strong that it was nearly unbeatable for most teams even, lacking counters and had a way to defeat every single counter. Arbok, Nidoqueen, Garbodor? Psyshock. Ferroseed, Klefki, Mawile? Fire Blast. After this only defensive Fire types could reliably beat it, but we only have Ponyta, Braixen and Growlithe, the first two being setup upon by the Calm Mind + Softboiled Set and while the other one could Roar, it had nearly no other purpose in the Metagame, existing solely as a Clefable Counter. Despite it's speed, only a select amount of Pokemon can revenge kill it, because it has huge bulk. This means that it will usually take 2 or more Pokemon down, if you have Sticky Web support, it can easily sweep entire teams even. Due to Magic Guard, it can even run Life Orb without any negative impact!

Viable Offensive Clefable Sets:
Calm Mind + 3 Attacks
Calm Mind + Softboiled + 2 Attacks
Cosmic Power
(Maybe Specs, I'm not sure, didn't see it)

Defensive:
Unaware Wall

Supportive:
Healing Wish
Dual Screens
Wish Supporter

There might be even more sets, but this should prove that it's very versatile. Besides that, it's sets can also fit on any type of team, aiding to it's viability.

TL;DR: Clefable is a crazy strong Offensive Wallbreaker/Sweeper (Despite it's speed), it can also run a defensive sets for Stallier teams and have all kinds of supporting roles, just as the other sets, fitting in a lot of teams. (Fairy type is awesome too)

So any thought on Clefable? to vote, put Ban or Don't Ban in your post

Personally: Ban

if anyone wants a battle to test this, or other threats. I'll be on main in the Other Metas room (or just do /whois) and on my server
 
In my opinion, Clefable does limits the metagame because of its versatility and well-rounded stats and typing. Having done some damage calculations, even with limited investment in special attack, Clefable is still able to 2HKO many threats such as venomoth and ferroseed.

It is also hard to stall clefable out since it has access to wish, soft-boiled, and aromatherapy. However, there are many pokemons that stand a chance against it such as Gunk Shot stockpile Garbodor, Unaware Quagsire, or nidoqueen. With that said, they must still watch out for stored power or taking repeated moonblasts. A stall toxic clefable may be able to pp stall those pokemons also.

I believe that Clefable is a threat that must be considered when making a team, and every team must have a check for it. I believe that the word "mediocre" does not fit this pokemon and therefore I vote for it to be: Ban.
 

Monte Cristo

Banned deucer.
Clefable is kind of a, well how do you say, ironic pokemon. The best counter to it is itself as an unaware wall, however the only pokemon that can set up on unaware wall the easiest is the CM set, so it beats itself both ways around. There is no heatran in this metagame stopping moonblast/fireblast/stored power or psychic sets from dominating. The anti clefable is clefable, so it causes this odd pokemon paradox in which we have seen in other OU suspects back in gen 5: it counters itself.

Due to this odd case I vote to Abstain, but seeing as there is no option I might as well say BAN
 

Snaquaza

KACAW
is a Smogon Media Contributor Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnus
Clefable is kind of a, well how do you say, ironic pokemon. The best counter to it is itself as an unaware wall, however the only pokemon that can set up on unaware wall the easiest is the CM set, so it beats itself both ways around. There is no heatran in this metagame stopping moonblast/fireblast/stored power or psychic sets from dominating. The anti clefable is clefable, so it causes this odd pokemon paradox in which we have seen in other OU suspects back in gen 5: it counters itself.

Due to this odd case I vote to Abstain, but seeing as there is no option I might as well say BAN
Abstain is basically posting neither
 
Okay, after a lot of testing, I've decided to Suspect Clefable.

It was inevitable, an OU Pokemon in such a metagame would be strong. So strong that it was nearly unbeatable for most teams even, lacking counters and had a way to defeat every single counter. Arbok, Nidoqueen, Garbodor? Psyshock. Ferroseed, Klefki, Mawile? Fire Blast. After this only defensive Fire types could reliably beat it, but we only have Ponyta, Braixen and Growlithe, the first two being setup upon by the Calm Mind + Softboiled Set and while the other one could Roar, it had nearly no other purpose in the Metagame, existing solely as a Clefable Counter. Despite it's speed, only a select amount of Pokemon can revenge kill it, because it has huge bulk. This means that it will usually take 2 or more Pokemon down, if you have Sticky Web support, it can easily sweep entire teams even. Due to Magic Guard, it can even run Life Orb without any negative impact!

Viable Offensive Clefable Sets:
Calm Mind + 3 Attacks
Calm Mind + Softboiled + 2 Attacks
Cosmic Power
(Maybe Specs, I'm not sure, didn't see it)

Defensive:
Unaware Wall

Supportive:
Healing Wish
Dual Screens
Wish Supporter

There might be even more sets, but this should prove that it's very versatile. Besides that, it's sets can also fit on any type of team, aiding to it's viability.

TL;DR: Clefable is a crazy strong Offensive Wallbreaker/Sweeper (Despite it's speed), it can also run a defensive sets for Stallier teams and have all kinds of supporting roles, just as the other sets, fitting in a lot of teams. (Fairy type is awesome too)

So any thought on Clefable? to vote, put Ban or Don't Ban in your post

Personally: Ban

if anyone wants a battle to test this, or other threats. I'll be on main in the Other Metas room (or just do /whois) and on my server
Ban
 
I've played quite a few matches with the following set, and I can assure you it is overpowered. Once it gets a CM up, there's practically no way to stop it from sweeping your team bar a crit or (p)hazing. Even so, it's incredibly difficult to find time to get rid of its boosts without getting demolished in the process. Every team is forced to carry two or three checks, which severely limits teambuilding. I vote BAN CLEFABLE

Clefable @ Life Orb
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Def / 252 HP / 4 Spd
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Soft-Boiled
- Moonblast
- Flamethrower
- Calm Mind
 

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