Doubles Mega Venusaur

talkingtree

Workin' out, sleepin' in, takin' vitamins
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Doubles Captain
[OVERVIEW]

Mega Venusaur succeeds primarily thanks to its positive matchups against many very common Pokemon, including Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Kartana, Diancie, and Zapdos. With its bulk, typing, and ability, it's difficult for many teams to break, and a naturally decent Special Attack stat means that it can still hit hard enough in most scenarios. In addition, Venusaur can tweak its moveset to fit its teammates' needs, but its inability to run all of its solid options leaves it lacking in at least one area that it could otherwise excel in. Moreover, a middling Speed tier means Venusaur often needs to take hits before attacking, so it risks being taken out if it doesn't focus on remaining healthy. Speed control and Chlorophyll help ease this a bit, but neither is permanent and the latter is only available before Mega Evolution.

[SET]
name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Sludge Bomb
move 2: Giga Drain / Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Leech Seed / Synthesis
move 4: Protect
item: Venusaurite
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 152 SpD / 52 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Sludge Bomb will almost always hit at least one of the opponent's Pokemon super effectively, with the majority of teams carrying an Island Guardian, but it's also useful for the potential to poison and wear down foes. Giga Drain facilitates Venusaur's goal of staying healthy in addition to the obvious merits it provides in matchups against Water-, Ground-, and Rock-types. Hidden Power Fire ensures that Venusaur isn't walled by Steel-types, notably making it the best Kartana answer available. Genesect and Mega Scizor are decent targets too, but most other Steel-types aren't likely to struggle with taking the hit. Leech Seed provides constant recovery, especially in tandem with Protect, and helps with the Pokemon that Mega Venusaur walls but can't do much damage to offensively, such as Zapdos. Protect stalls out field conditions and may give Venusaur a turn to safely chip away at a foe while regaining health thanks to Leech Seed. Synthesis takes a more active role in healing, relieving the pressure to keep Mega Venusaur healthy by other means. Many combinations of the moves discussed here are viable, but the listed grouping is often most effective.

Set Details
========

With the given EV spread, Mega Venusaur is guaranteed to take two Heat Waves from Mega Charizard Y. With a Bold nature and the investment in Defense, it will also avoid the 2HKO from Mega Metagross's Iron Head, even after Stealth Rock. The remaining 52 EVs are placed in Speed to ensure its ability to outspeed uninvested Rotom formes and Tapu Fini. Chlorophyll is the preferred base ability in case the opponent brings Mega Charizard Y or Torkoal.

Usage Tips
========

Mega Venusaur generally fits best on bulky offense builds, as these can offer it the time it needs to succeed and still provide enough damage output to make up for the times it can't deal much damage itself. Try to keep Venusaur healthy so that it can continue to check the threats it's needed for throughout the game. It won't deal a ton of damage to neutral targets, so focus on either hitting foes super effectively or taking advantage of the secondary effects offered by Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain. In sun, it may be better to forgo Mega Evolution to take advantage of the added Speed, provided that Mega Venusaur's added bulk isn't necessary to do its job that turn.

Team Options
========

Steel-types, especially Mega Metagross, can prove to be obstacles to Venusaur's success, so it's a good idea to pack answers like Incineroar and Landorus-T. These teammates often also benefit from Mega Venusaur's great matchup against Water-types. Kyurem-B and Mega Salamence are two of Mega Venusaur's worst matchups, so packing checks to these is crucial. Among these, Tapu Fini can provide Heal Pulse support, Diancie offers speed control, and Genesect both beats Tapu Lele and has Flamethrower to free up Venusaur from needing Hidden Power Fire. Setup sweepers like Volcarona and Kommo-o benefit from Leech Seed chipping down foes into KO range as well as Venusaur's ability to take on Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko. Conversely, some opposing setup sweepers like Mega Latias, Substitute Kommo-o, and Volcarona can give Venusaur trouble; strong checks to these such as Tapu Fini and Diancie ensure that Venusaur being setup bait won't ruin the team's chances.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Venusaur's main set has a decent amount of versatility already, so only a few niche other options are worth considering. Sleep Powder can give teammates free turns, but it mandates Tapu Lele as a partner, since the other three Island Guardians either prevent sleep or share too many checks with Mega Venusaur. Growth makes Venusaur a scarier offensive threat, but it's only really worth considering when used in conjunction with Torkoal to double its effect thanks to the sun. Knock Off improves the team's matchup against Chansey and Porygon2 while also acting as a decent catch-all move against predicted switches; however, it's difficult to fit onto Venusaur's moveset or find many situations where it's worth using over Venusaur's other options. Hidden Power Ice hits Landorus-T, Zygarde, and Mega Salamence, three threats that could otherwise take Venusaur's attacks fairly well.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Steel-types**: Without Hidden Power Fire, Mega Venusaur is absolutely walled by Steel-types. Mega Metagross can even carry Zen Headbutt to deal serious damage to it, and Mega Scizor can use non-Hidden Power Fire Venusaur as setup fodder.

**Psychic-types**: Psychic-types like Tapu Lele and Mega Latias hit Mega Venusaur super effectively without having to go through Thick Fat like Ice- or Fire-types would. However, Tapu Lele can't switch in safely out of fear of Sludge Bomb.

**Flying-types**: Few Flying-types in the metagame use their Flying-type STAB moves, but those that do like Mega Salamence, Pelipper, and Tornadus are the most dangerous of the bunch for Mega Venusaur to face.

**Kyurem-B**: Unlike other Ice-types and Pokemon that use Ice-type moves as coverage, Kyurem-B has Teravolt to circumvent Thick Fat and thus hits Mega Venusaur quite hard with its STAB attacks. In addition, it's naturally bulky enough to take Venusaur's attacks pretty well.

**Taunt and Substitute**: Without Leech Seed recovery, Mega Venusaur finds it difficult to stay healthy enough to check what it's needed to check. This makes Taunt users like Gothitelle and Substitute users like Kommo-o and Aegislash frustrating foes to face.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[talkingtree, 232101]]
- Quality checked by: [[MajorBowman, 188164], [Stratos, 59770]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Empress, 175616], [deetah, 297659]]
 
Last edited:

MajorBowman

take a sip babes
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Doubles Colonel
  • [Overview] I love your point about how Venusaur risks being taken out if it doesn't focus on remaining healthy, that's a super good way to phrase that idea and I'd definitely emphasize that when you write it up
  • [Overview] The last bullet point is great too
  • [Overview] Neither of the above are actual critiques and this isn't either I just wanted to say hi
  • [Moves] I'd emphasize that HP Fire Mega Venu is one of the hardest Kart counters we have in the writeup, Genesect and Scizor can still chunk it for decent damage but Kart takes a look at Venusaur and wants to run away
  • [Team Options] I'd be careful about suggesting both Tapu Fini and Kommo-o as partners for obvious reasons. Both are fine suggestions but maybe just hint that you should never use both?
  • [Other Options] I wouldn't bother with Toxic or regular Venu + Zard-Y, the latter is just kinda bad and the former probably isn't worth the slot on an already passive Pokemon
Good work, I liked all of the less concrete concepts you included (like I mentioned in the first bullet point). QC 1/2
 
check 2

set
  • i would slash synthesis with leech seed, not protect. if you're not running protect on a mon that sits on the field you're liable to get punished by fake out incin
  • +1 zyg tec rage is an unbenchmark dude lol. better benchmark ideas (sorted by my preference):
    • 8 to avoid getting 2hkoed by gross iron head
    • 168 to avoid getting 2hkoed by gross iron head after sr (in case you come in on gross after a kill)
    • 232+ to avoid ohko by mence dedge
    • 92 to avoid getting koed by +1 latias psyshock after sr (in case you come in after a kill so you can seed it)
  • I also don't think "lo cube beam after stealth rock" is a worthwhile consideration for venusaur. you arent switching into these moves so you probably aren't at a clean 88% by the time they're used, you've either healed up with synth/leech or you've been chipped by uturn. the only time that living a cube ice beam after stealth rock would come into play is if you are bringing venu in on cube after a kill, which is a real Oh shit scenario and probably not worth making a benchmark. better ideas (sorted by my preference):
    • 172+ to avoid 2hko by camel earth power
    • 76+ to avoid ohko by lo modest lele psychic in other terrains
    • 132+ to avoid 2hko by mence hyper voice
    • 12 to avoid ohko by pelipper hurricane after rocks (most pelipper rain doesn't run rocks lol)
  • I also think I would prefer having more Def than SpD to give Gene SpA download boosts but I'm not sure if you can pull that one off with the benchmarks provided above
  • You don't need any investment to ohko pert / koko with the respective stab, and everything else requires too much, so while offense is generally nice i'm not sure how useful it really is. i'd cut from that first, then from speed to hit defensive benchmarks
  • i would slash giga drain before hp fire. hp fire is for two mons, but one of them is always clicking u-turn on you anyway, so really one mon. giga drain makes venusaur a functional check to things like lando, diancie, gastrodon, suicune, swampert... while also generally making it a good answer to your standard bulu camelroom especially thanks to grassy terrain boosts. i'd only use hp fire if i was kart weak
  • team options should mention something about venu being bait for common setup mons like lati, sub kommo, volc, or sub kart (if you're not hp fire), really just having the option to seed and pray. so you want partners that can help neutralize those threats
c&c
  • pelipper uses flying stab too
  • taunt and sub probably deserve special mention in the checks and counters section for blocking venu's healing

approved 2/2
 
Last edited:

Empress

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously
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add remove comment
[OVERVIEW]

Mega Venusaur succeeds primarily thanks to its positive matchups against many very common Pokemon, including Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Kartana, Diancie, and Zapdos. With its bulk, typing, and ability, it's difficult for many teams to break, and a naturally decent Special Attack stat means that it can still hit hard enough for in (subjective change) most scenarios. In addition, Venusaur can tweak its moveset to fit its teammates' needs, but its inability to run all of its solid options leaves it lacking in at least one area that it could otherwise excel in. Unfortunately, Moreover, a middling Speed tier means Venusaur often needs to take hits before attacking, so it risks being taken out if it doesn't focus on remaining healthy. Speed control and Chlorophyll help ease this a bit, but neither is permanent and the latter is only available before Mega Evolution.

[SET]
name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Sludge Bomb
move 2: Giga Drain / Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Leech Seed / Synthesis
move 4: Protect
item: Venusaurite
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 152 SpD / 52 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Sludge Bomb will almost always hit at least one of the opponent's Pokemon super effectively with the majority of teams carrying an Island Guardian, but it's also useful for the potential to poison and wear down foes. Giga Drain facilitates Venusaur's goal of staying healthy in addition to the obvious merits it provides in matchups against Water-, Ground-, and Rock-types. Hidden Power Fire ensures that Venusaur isn't walled by Steel-types, notably making it the best Kartana answer available. Genesect and Mega Scizor are decent targets too, but most other Steel-types aren't likely to struggle with taking the hit. Leech Seed provides constant recovery, especially in tandem with Protect, and helps with the Pokemon that Mega Venusaur walls but can't do much damage to offensively, such as Zapdos. Protect stalls out field conditions and may give Venusaur a turn to safely chip away at a foe while regaining health thanks to Leech Seed. Synthesis takes a more active role in healing, relieving the pressure to keep it Mega Venusaur healthy by other means. Many combinations of the moves discussed here are viable, but the listed grouping is often most effective.

Set Details
========

With the given EV spread, Mega Venusaur is guaranteed to take two Heat Waves avoid the 2HKO from Mega Charizard Y's Heat Wave (subjective change). Using With a Bold nature and the investment in Defense, it will also avoid the 2HKO from Mega Metagross's Iron Head, even after Stealth Rock. The remaining 52 EVs are placed in Speed to ensure its ability to outspeed uninvested Rotom formes and Tapu Fini. Chlorophyll is the preferred base ability in case the opponent brings Mega Charizard Y or Torkoal.

Usage Tips
========

Mega Venusaur generally fits best on bulky offense builds, as these can offer it the time it needs to succeed and still provide enough damage output to make up for the times it can't deal much damage itself. Try to keep Venusaur healthy so that it can continue to check the threats it's needed for throughout the game. It won't deal a ton of damage to neutral targets, so focus on either hitting foes super effectively or taking advantage of the secondary effects offered by Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain. In sun, it may be better to forgo Mega Evolution to take advantage of the added speed Speed, provided that Mega Venusaur's added bulk isn't necessary to do its job that turn.

Team Options
========

Steel-types, especially Mega Metagross, (AC) can prove to be obstacles to Venusaur's success, so it's a good idea to pack answers like Incineroar and Landorus-T. These teammates often also benefit from Mega Venusaur's great matchup against Water-types. Kyurem-B and Mega Salamence are two of Mega Venusaur's worst matchups, so packing checks to these is crucial. Among these, Tapu Fini can provide Heal Pulse support, Diancie offers speed control, and Genesect both beats Tapu Lele and has Flamethrower to free up Venusaur from needing let Venusaur forgo (subjective change; phrasing) Hidden Power Fire. Setup sweepers like Volcarona and Kommo-o benefit from Leech Seed chipping down foes into KO range as well as Venusaur's ability to take on Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko. On the other side Conversely, some opposing setup sweepers like Mega Latias, Substitute Kommo-o, and Volcarona can give Venusaur trouble; strong checks to these (such as?) ensure that Venusaur being setup bait won't ruin the team's chances.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Venusaur's main set has a decent amount of versatility already, so only a few niche other options are worth considering. Sleep Powder can give teammates free turns, but it mandates Tapu Lele as a partner, (AC) since the other three Island Guardians either prevent sleep or share too many checks with Mega Venusaur. Growth makes Venusaur a scarier offensive threat, but it's only really worth considering when used in conjuction conjunction with Torkoal to double its effect thanks to the sun. Knock Off improves the team's matchup against Chansey and Porygon2 while also acting as a decent catch-all move against predicted switches; however, it's difficult to fit onto Venusaur's moveset or and (consider this a subjective change; I'll have to double check to see which one is a better word choice) find many situations where it's worth using over Venusaur's other options. Hidden Power Ice hits Landorus-T, Zygarde, and Mega Salamence, three threats that could otherwise take its Venusaur's attacks fairly well.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Steel-types**: Without Hidden Power Fire, Mega Venusaur is absolutely walled by Steel-types. Mega Metagross can even carry Zen Headbutt to deal serious damage to it, and Mega Scizor can use non-Hidden Power Fire-less Venusaur as setup fodder.

**Psychic-types**: Psychic-types like Tapu Lele and Mega Latias hit Mega Venusaur super effectively without having to go through Thick Fat like Ice- or Fire-types would. However, Tapu Lele can't switch in safely for out of fear of Sludge Bomb.

**Flying-types**: Few Flying-types in the metagame use their Flying-type STAB moves, but those that do like Mega Salamence, Pelipper, and Tornadus are the most dangerous of the bunch for Mega Venusaur to face.

**Kyurem-B**: Unlike other Ice-types or and Pokemon that use Ice-type moves as coverage, Kyurem-B has Teravolt to circumvent Thick Fat, (RC) and thus hits Mega Venusaur quite hard with its STAB attacks. In addition, it's naturally bulky enough to take Venusaur's attacks pretty well.

**Taunt and Substitute**: Without Leech Seed recovery, Mega Venusaur finds it difficult to stay healthy enough to check what it's needed to check. This makes Taunt users like Gothitelle and Substitute users like Kommo-o and Aegislash frustrating foes to face.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[talkingtree, 232101]]
- Quality checked by: [[MajorBowman, 188164], [Stratos, 59770]]
- Grammar checked by: [[name, ID], [name, ID]]
GP 1/2
 
Last edited:

deetah

Same old shit but a different day
is a Pre-Contributor
Add Remove Comments (AC) = Add Comma
I think there's like one change here, not much had to be fixed. Excellent job!

GP 2/2

shinxstamp.gif


[OVERVIEW]

Mega Venusaur succeeds primarily thanks to its positive matchups against many very common Pokemon, including Tapu Fini, Tapu Koko, Kartana, Diancie, and Zapdos. With its bulk, typing, and ability, it's difficult for many teams to break, and a naturally decent Special Attack stat means that it can still hit hard enough in most scenarios. In addition, Venusaur can tweak its moveset to fit its teammates' needs, but its inability to run all of its solid options leaves it lacking in at least one area that it could otherwise excel in. Moreover, a middling Speed tier means Venusaur often needs to take hits before attacking, so it risks being taken out if it doesn't focus on remaining healthy. Speed control and Chlorophyll help ease this a bit, but neither is permanent and the latter is only available before Mega Evolution.

[SET]
name: Bulky Attacker
move 1: Sludge Bomb
move 2: Giga Drain / Hidden Power Fire
move 3: Leech Seed / Synthesis
move 4: Protect
item: Venusaurite
ability: Chlorophyll
nature: Bold
evs: 252 HP / 52 Def / 152 SpD / 52 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
Moves
========

Sludge Bomb will almost always hit at least one of the opponent's Pokemon super effectively, (AC) with the majority of teams carrying an Island Guardian, but it's also useful for the potential to poison and wear down foes. Giga Drain facilitates Venusaur's goal of staying healthy in addition to the obvious merits it provides in matchups against Water-, Ground-, and Rock-types. Hidden Power Fire ensures that Venusaur isn't walled by Steel-types, notably making it the best Kartana answer available. Genesect and Mega Scizor are decent targets too, but most other Steel-types aren't likely to struggle with taking the hit. Leech Seed provides constant recovery, especially in tandem with Protect, and helps with the Pokemon that Mega Venusaur walls but can't do much damage to offensively, such as Zapdos. Protect stalls out field conditions and may give Venusaur a turn to safely chip away at a foe while regaining health thanks to Leech Seed. Synthesis takes a more active role in healing, relieving the pressure to keep Mega Venusaur healthy by other means. Many combinations of the moves discussed here are viable, but the listed grouping is often most effective.

Set Details
========

With the given EV spread, Mega Venusaur is guaranteed to take two Heat Waves from Mega Charizard Y. With a Bold nature and the investment in Defense, it will also avoid the 2HKO from Mega Metagross's Iron Head, even after Stealth Rock. The remaining 52 EVs are placed in Speed to ensure its ability to outspeed uninvested Rotom formes and Tapu Fini. Chlorophyll is the preferred base ability in case the opponent brings Mega Charizard Y or Torkoal.

Usage Tips
========

Mega Venusaur generally fits best on bulky offense builds, as these can offer it the time it needs to succeed and still provide enough damage output to make up for the times it can't deal much damage itself. Try to keep Venusaur healthy so that it can continue to check the threats it's needed for throughout the game. It won't deal a ton of damage to neutral targets, so focus on either hitting foes super effectively or taking advantage of the secondary effects offered by Sludge Bomb and Giga Drain. In sun, it may be better to forgo Mega Evolution to take advantage of the added Speed, provided that Mega Venusaur's added bulk isn't necessary to do its job that turn.

Team Options
========

Steel-types, especially Mega Metagross, can prove to be obstacles to Venusaur's success, so it's a good idea to pack answers like Incineroar and Landorus-T. These teammates often also benefit from Mega Venusaur's great matchup against Water-types. Kyurem-B and Mega Salamence are two of Mega Venusaur's worst matchups, so packing checks to these is crucial. Among these, Tapu Fini can provide Heal Pulse support, Diancie offers speed control, and Genesect both beats Tapu Lele and has Flamethrower to free up Venusaur from needing Hidden Power Fire. Setup sweepers like Volcarona and Kommo-o benefit from Leech Seed chipping down foes into KO range as well as Venusaur's ability to take on Tapu Fini and Tapu Koko. Conversely, some opposing setup sweepers like Mega Latias, Substitute Kommo-o, and Volcarona can give Venusaur trouble; strong checks to these such as Tapu Fini and Diancie ensure that Venusaur being setup bait won't ruin the team's chances.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Venusaur's main set has a decent amount of versatility already, so only a few niche other options are worth considering. Sleep Powder can give teammates free turns, but it mandates Tapu Lele as a partner, since the other three Island Guardians either prevent sleep or share too many checks with Mega Venusaur. Growth makes Venusaur a scarier offensive threat, but it's only really worth considering when used in conjunction with Torkoal to double its effect thanks to the sun. Knock Off improves the team's matchup against Chansey and Porygon2 while also acting as a decent catch-all move against predicted switches; however, it's difficult to fit onto Venusaur's moveset or find many situations where it's worth using over Venusaur's other options. Hidden Power Ice hits Landorus-T, Zygarde, and Mega Salamence, three threats that could otherwise take Venusaur's attacks fairly well.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Steel-types**: Without Hidden Power Fire, Mega Venusaur is absolutely walled by Steel-types. Mega Metagross can even carry Zen Headbutt to deal serious damage to it, and Mega Scizor can use non-Hidden Power Fire Venusaur as setup fodder.

**Psychic-types**: Psychic-types like Tapu Lele and Mega Latias hit Mega Venusaur super effectively without having to go through Thick Fat like Ice- or Fire-types would. However, Tapu Lele can't switch in safely out of fear of Sludge Bomb.

**Flying-types**: Few Flying-types in the metagame use their Flying-type STAB moves, but those that do like Mega Salamence, Pelipper, and Tornadus are the most dangerous of the bunch for Mega Venusaur to face.

**Kyurem-B**: Unlike other Ice-types and Pokemon that use Ice-type moves as coverage, Kyurem-B has Teravolt to circumvent Thick Fat and thus hits Mega Venusaur quite hard with its STAB attacks. In addition, it's naturally bulky enough to take Venusaur's attacks pretty well.

**Taunt and Substitute**: Without Leech Seed recovery, Mega Venusaur finds it difficult to stay healthy enough to check what it's needed to check. This makes Taunt users like Gothitelle and Substitute users like Kommo-o and Aegislash frustrating foes to face.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[talkingtree, 232101]]
- Quality checked by: [[MajorBowman, 188164], [Stratos, 59770]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Empress, 175616], [name, ID]]
 

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