Pet Mod Megamax [Pet Mod of the Season] (Ladder Tour @ Post #408)

What should the format for Megamax be?

  • Stay National Dex

    Votes: 7 29.2%
  • Regional Dex OU with all Megas of available Pokemon being around

    Votes: 4 16.7%
  • Regional Dex OU with only converted Gigantamaxes existing

    Votes: 13 54.2%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
Concerning Cinderace, should it get suspected in OU I'll have another poll like the one for Mag where we decide as a community if OU's Cinderace ban should apply or not. Honestly the dilemmas concerning that mon could warrant on its own mini discussion-based ""suspect""
 
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Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
So usage stats just came out for the first month of the ladder's run and I was initially planning and doing a little analysis for one level like 1630 and 1760 but as I looked through them I realized that they're kinda sorta not reliable in the slightest.

https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/gen8megamax-0.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/gen8megamax-1500.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/gen8megamax-1630.txt
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-07/gen8megamax-1760.txt

Here's a """highlight""" reel:
-Slowbro-Galar is #10 at 1760
-Excadrill at #1 at 1630 (it's great, but not THAT great) and Alakazam at #6
-16% of Coalossal use items other than the mega stone

So yeah, voyage at your own risk. if we try to cross-reference these for common trends tho it seems like Urshifu-Rapid-Strike is the most consistently common Mega while stuff like Mandibuzz, Magearna, Clefable and Zeraora dominate the top levels.
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
I think it's time for another retooling slate! Here are the suspects this time around:

Gengar Sprite

Gengar X
Requirements:
Must remain a somewhat bulky physical -ate user
Primary Flaws: Extreme difficulty breaking past common walls, type that is poor offensively and defensively

Orbeetle Sprite

Orbeetle
Requirements:
Must remain Bug/Psychic
Primary Flaws: Unable to force switches, 4MSS despite lackluster coverage

Toxtricity Sprite

Toxtricity
Requirements:
Must remain Electric/Poison
Primary Flaws: Difficulty justifying Contaminate over Punk Rock, just general overlap with base form in terms of function

Quick reminder for this one: Don't sweat too hard about trying to make these guys top tier or anything. Just make sure they have some viability in the current meta, even if it's "only" C or B level
 
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Pokémon Name:
Mega Toxtricity

Mega Stat Changes: 75 HP / 106 Attack (-5) / 100 Defense / 129 Special Attack / 100 Special Defense / 92 Speed (+5)
Ability: Contaminate
New Movepool Additions: Burning Jealousy, Nasty Plot

Description:
These are the changes that some of us discussed on the Discord as a way to make it better at its original concept rather than totally overhauling it - if Contaminate is to be kept, this is most likely the best way to do it!

Currently, Mega Toxtricity's most distinctive quality in battle is its capacity to "lose-lose situations" with Contaminate: either take a hit at -1 or mitigate the damage by switching out and losing a turn.
Unfortunately, it simply isn't effective enough at punishing the obvious switch-ins (especially Excadrill, which not only hard counters it but can easily do so as many times as it wants in a match) or capitalizing on that free turn to do this well. In addition, its dependence on Contaminate to hit at full power makes it simply too weak except when it's only just switched in and puts too much pressure on it to pivot out constantly in order to refresh it.
There has also been some concern that, because it's currently outclassed by its own base form with Choice Specs, it would be difficult to buff the Mega Evolution without either making the base form better or losing Contaminate.
These specific buffs have been aimed at addressing Mega Toxtricity's primary issues while also giving reason to use it over Specs Toxtricity.

- Burning Jealousy is here to be mid-power Fire coverage, making it harder to undermine Toxtricity just by switching in a Steel- or Ground-type (notably Excadrill, which hard counters it too easily). The reason Burning Jealousy was chosen is that it's just barely not enough to 2HKO common specially defensive Excadrill sets, but Excadrill can still be punished for switching in and can be worn down over time, while Toxtricity currently cannot touch it. (Burning Jealousy was chosen based on the input of earl and zedhatool - thank you both for your help!)
- In conjunction with this, Mega Toxtricity's improved Speed tier enables it to handle Pokémon like Excadrill more effectively than before. For example, in this case, Excadrill can only switch in on a Burning Jealousy once - it can no longer force Toxtricity out if it's in range of a +2 Burning Jealousy (or Burning Jealousy used twice), rather than being able to counter it an essentially unlimited number of times. Note that Speed is also something Specs Toxtricity has no way to match.
- Lastly, Nasty Plot is a move that Specs Toxtricity outright cannot use (and it also incidentally diminishes the returns of an item like Throat Spray - the difference between +3 and +2 is only half of the difference between +1 and +0), which mitigates its competition with its base form, while interacting uniquely with Mega Toxtricity's Ability. Thanks to Contaminate, the threat posed by a direct attack (including Volt Switch, which it is equally likely to use on its first turn in battle) is higher on the turn when Toxtricity wants to set up than any other turn, discouraging opponents from staying in and generating free turns for Toxtricity to set up. In turn, Nasty Plot eases prediction and can sometimes save Toxtricity from needing to guess the switch-in from Contaminate (especially if would-be counters like Excadrill are already weakened and can't take a +2 attack), giving it the offensive presence it needs to make progress and the threat it needs to grab momentum.

Mega Toxtricity still has clearly defined weaknesses, including the aforementioned low power of Burning Jealousy (allowing Excadrill to counter it a single time - and to punish it for boosting instead of using Burning Jealousy on the switch-in, as that means making no progress at all). Its Speed tier is also not enough to clean up or sweep after boosting, only enough to deal with the Pokémon that used to shut it down and stop it from doing its job. Still, these buffs make Mega Toxtricity into a more effective offensive pivot and wallbreaker and take much better advantage of what Contaminate has to offer than it could before, supporting its unique playing style and making it more effective at it rather than making it a more straightforward breaker or sweeper.

(I'm definitely open to more feedback on this if anyone has any! Other Speed tiers I considered are 99 and 101, and it may be worth noting that giving it 10 more Special Attack would put its Thunderbolt on par with a Punk Rock-boosted Overdrive, but I don't want to go overboard with buffs unless they're necessary - this should already be a significant improvement over Mega Toxtricity.)

Edit: there was a typo in my stat spread - I was debating between -6 Attack/+6 Speed and -5 Attack/+5 Speed, and somehow I ended up doing -6 Attack/+5 Speed! Just fixing that. XP
 
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:ss/gengar-gmax:
Pokémon name: Gengar-Mega-X
Mega Stat Changes: 60 HP/155 Atk(+90)/105 Def(+45)/70 SpA (-60)/100 SpD (+25)/110 Spe
Typing Change: Ghost/Fighting
Ability: Pugilate (Fighting-type -ate ability, a pugilist is someone who loves to beat people up)
New Movepool Additions: Poltergeist, Swords Dance
Description: The added fighting type allows Gengar to break past common Ghosts resists. It can 2HKO Mandibuzz at +2 with Double Edge, and its generally good speed and bulk make it a potent threat. Mandibuzz is still a check, because at +0 Gengar can't do anything to it, and Foul Play destroys Gengar in return.
 
Not gonna do the whole split mega thing again, because Low Key form blew cheeks, but I really liked the pun with Acid Rock, so I'm pitching it again.


Mega Toxtricity
Ability:
Acid Rock [like Intimidate, but it poisons the opponent(s) instead of lowering their Attack]
HP: 75​
Att: 98​
Def: 80 (+10)​
SpA: 174 (+60)​
SpD: 80 (+10)​
Spe: 95 (+20)​

Thanks to Acid Rock automatically poisoning the opponent, its Venoshocks are about on par with Specs Toxtricity's Boomburst, but its Boomburst are about on par with Specs Toxtricity's Sludge Wave (and Thunderbolt is just worse than Overdrive). So in essence, it trades Electric and Normal power for Poison power.
:toxtricity:252+ SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 298-351 (87.3 - 102.9%)
:toxtricity-gmax:252+ SpA Mega Toxtricity Venoshock (130 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 291-343 (85.3 - 100.5%) (97.8 - 113% after poison damage)

:toxtricity:252+ SpA Choice Specs Toxtricity Sludge Wave vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 232-274 (68 - 80.3%)
:toxtricity-gmax:252+ SpA Toxtricity Boomburst vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 209-246 (61.2 - 72.1%) (73.7 - 83.7% after poison damage)

:toxtricity:252+ SpA Choice Specs Punk Rock Toxtricity Overdrive vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 255-302 (74.7 - 88.5%)
:toxtricity-gmax:252+ SpA Mega Toxtricity Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Mew: 202-238 (59.2 - 69.7%) (71.7 - 82.2% after poison damage)


Poison is arguably a worse offensive type than Electric + Normal, so this isn't a great bargain, but Acid Rock does more than just power up Venoshock. Combined with Volt Switch, it allows Mega Toxtricity to come in, inflict its poison, and flee to safety. When paired with an ally who can slow pivot into it, Mega Toxtricity can infect and wear down every Pokemon on the opponent's team (minus the ones immune to the Poison status, of course) without ever having to see much play. It's basically a living Toxic Spike.

New Movepool Additions: Poltergeist
Gengar already gets Poltergeist, cousin.
 
Toxtricity-Mega
Mega Stat Changes:
-20 to both Defenses, +10 to Attack, +10 to Special Attack, +20 to Speed (so basically the stat spread for this is 75/121/80/139/80/107)
Ability: Punk Rock
New Movepool Additions: None
Description: Tbh there wasn't much change needed here, now that base form Toxtricity has a good ability in Punk Rock all it really needs here is a way to abuse it effectively with its mega. Contaminate was obviously purged due to causing way more problems than you'd think, + it would've been too difficult attempting to keep it because this is Regional Dex, not NatDex. Although the loss of bulk really hurts it, the boosted speed tier allows it to fire off super strong Boombursts and Overdrives.
 

earl

(from big bang theory)
is a Pre-Contributor
Mafia Champion
Orbeetle Sprite

Orbeetle
Requirements:
Must keep Analytic and remain Bug/Psychic
Primary Flaws: Unable to force switches, 4MSS despite lackluster coverage
The whole reason it has 4MSS is because of its STAB combo and the fact that its forced to go offensive thanks to analytic. Any chance we could have these restrictions lifted? This mon is pretty unusable without a huge overhaul.

(I would generally prefer the restrictions stay more in line with stuff like megatox, where we can maintain the typing but still have flexibility in making a mega truly have a niche without extreme minmaxing)
 

Yung Dramps

awesome gaming
The whole reason it has 4MSS is because of its STAB combo and the fact that its forced to go offensive thanks to analytic. Any chance we could have these restrictions lifted? This mon is pretty unusable without a huge overhaul.

(I would generally prefer the restrictions stay more in line with stuff like megatox, where we can maintain the typing but still have flexibility in making a mega truly have a niche without extreme minmaxing)
Alright, sure. I'll lift the Analytic requirement!
 

earl

(from big bang theory)
is a Pre-Contributor
Mafia Champion
Alright, sure. I'll lift the Analytic requirement!
Can we get the typing lifted too tho? It's genuinely one of the worst typings imaginable for the megamax meta and infinitely more restricting than analytic was. This mon is BAD bad, there should be a lot of freedom in approaching this one.
 
Can we get the typing lifted too tho? It's genuinely one of the worst typings imaginable for the megamax meta and infinitely more restricting than analytic was. This mon is BAD bad, there should be a lot of freedom in approaching this one.
By "BAD bad" you mean it's Mega Rilla-level bad, right?
 

earl

(from big bang theory)
is a Pre-Contributor
Mafia Champion
By "BAD bad" you mean it's Mega Rilla-level bad, right?
Mega rillaboom is a lot more usable than mega orbeetle. At least mega rillaboom is a decent lure to a few rillaboom counters like amoonguss. Mega boomer isn't even that awful tbh it just has massive opportunity cost compared to the base form.
 

G-Luke

Sugar, Spice and One for All
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a CAP Contributor
Moderator
Gengar Sprite


Pokemon: Gengar-GMax
Mega Stat Changes: -5 Def, +5 Spe
Ability: N/A
New Movepool Additions: +Quick Attack, +Agility, +Close Combat, +Fake Out, +Bulk Up, +Earthquake
Description: I like the concept of a Psychic type physical ate abuser. That being said, Gengar has practically no tools to use as a physical attacker. I decided to give Mega Gengar some well needed potential coverage options in Close Combat and Earthquake. I also gave it priority options to abuse and give it a niche as a revenge killer. Agility and Bulk Up were tossed in for good measure. I'm not trying to make these guys into top tier threats, but making them into at least viable picks shouldn't be too hard. I finally give it a slight bump in speed so it can have a fun speed tier that stands out.


Orbeetle Sprite


Pokemon: Orbeetle-Gmax
Mega Stat Changes: -25 Spe, +25 SpA
Ability: N/A
New Movepool Additions: +Thunderbolt, +Focus Blast, +Earth Power
Description: I just gave it actual coverage and enough SpA that it can actually force out opposing Pokemon with Analytic. Yeah, I did heavily cut into its speed, but a Pokémon that this doesn't really value its speed that much, so I instead made it fast enough to outpace S rank Rock Kaiju.

Toxtricity Sprite


Pokemon: Toxtricity-Gmax
Mega Stat Changes: -23 Atk, +10 SpA, +13 Spe
Ability: N/A
New Movepool Additions: +Knock Off, +Calm Mind, +Burning Jealousy, +Toxic Spikes
Description: Firstly I went into that pretty arbitrary Attack stat and redistributed it into its Special Attack and Speed, as 129 and 87 offensive stats with no boosting item are extremely abysmal. Bumping its speed to 100 and its power to 139 allows it to actually apply offensive pressure throughout the match. I then wanted to give it some solid utility in access to Knock Off and Toxic Spikes, and most importantly give it a boosting move so it can fully abuse Contaminate, forcing lose-lose situations versus the opponent. I finally added Burning Jealousy as apparently its solid coverage to use against scummy switch ins like Ferrothorn and Excadrill.
 

earl

(from big bang theory)
is a Pre-Contributor
Mafia Champion
anyways:


Pokemon: Toxitricity-Gmax
Mega Stat Changes: 75 / 128 (+30) / 95 (+25) / 129 (+15) / 100 (+30) / 75
Ability: Contaminate (at the end of the user's turn, lowers the opponents defense and special defense by 1 stage)
New Movepool Additions: Zing Zap, Burning Jealously, Aqua Tail
Justification: The ability is a much more consistent if delayed boost that can also allow Shift Gear sets to see some usage. Decided to keep speed low because even though it keeps excadrill as a hard counter for special sets, most slower answers can be broken through over time especially if you run protect/substitute.


Pokemon: Orbeetle-GMax
Mega Stat Changes: 60 / 45 / 150 / 130 / 120 / 100
Ability: Psychic Surge
New Movepool Additions: Dazzling Gleam, -Nasty Plot
Justification: If this thing is gonna work, its gonna need something broken. Luckily, Psychic Surge+Expanding Force is absolutely that. 100 speed is a great speed tier for a mega and overwriting grassy terrain is a pretty decent bonus. Can come in on a few common defensive mons like Pex but otherwise struggles to come in and necessitates hazard control. Still stonewalled by steels.
 
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RottenInfernape

I COULD BE BANNED!
:ss/toxtricity-gmax:
Pokemon: Toxtricity-Gmax
Types:
1596593739671.png
/
1596593752314.png

Mega Stat Changes: 75 / 122 (+10) / 65 (-5) / 145 (+16) / 65 (-5) / 130 (+43) BST: 602
Ability: Tinted Lens
New Movepool Additions: None
Justification: Toxtricity suffers from a mediocre Speed stat, which leaves it easily more vulnerable to Ground-types and other generally faster offensive Pokemon. I made it into an effective glass cannon that can serve as a all-out attacker / pivot, making this a great way to dish out damage. Tinted Lens lets you predict switches on resisted Pokemon, and deal massive damage to them back. With Punk Rock out of sight, you could also make use for Thunderbolt, which hits weaker but is still good STAB to make up for it. Toxtricity has horrible bulk, so it should almost never switch in on a Pokemon. It can also easily just pivot out of its checks, such as Chansey/Blissey, with Volt Switch.

:ss/gengar-gmax:
Pokemon: Gengar-Gmax
Types:
1596593767380.png

Mega Stat Changes:
60 / 150 (+5) / 110 (+15)/ 70 (-30) / 110 (+20) / 100 (-10) BST: 600
Ability: Terrorate (Normal moves become Ghost moves)
New Movepool Additions: +Superpower, +Recover
Justification: Gengar X is a great stallbreaker thanks to its access to Taunt and Disable, coupled with a naturally good Attack stat which allow it to break through some stuff. It goes back to the standard Ghost typing, which is somewhat better defensively. Superpower is powerful STAB that can notably break through Chansey. Recover is really great, since it gives Gengar more longevity. It also has a decent Speed stat, which gives you more opportunities to stay in.

* Might add an Orbeetle submission later
 
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I'm just gonna reuse this submission from Megas for All, don't mind me.


Mega Orbeetle
Type:
Bug/Psychic
Ability: Analyze (Forewarn, but it reveals all four moves) (This wasn't in the original version, but let's also throw in Frisk's effect for good measure)
HP: 60
Att: 55 (+10)
Def: 150 (+40)
SpA: 100 (+20)
SpD: 160 (+40)
Spe: 80 (-10)
Moves: Teleport

Pokemon Shield said:
It emits psychic energy to observe and study what's around it—and what's around it can include things over six miles away.
The energy from mega evolution not only increased the range of Orbeetle's psychic power (now effective over a 20 mile radius, large enough to cover most of New York City... from almost anywhere in New York City) but it also made it much more effective, granting it total omniscience of everything in its range.

Its bulk was designed to be a bit better than a Toxapex with switched defenses (50/142/152 vs 60/150/160). Of course, Mega Orbeetle isn't as effective of a wall as Pex due to lacking Regenerator and having a horrid defensive typing, but it's not designed to be a proper wall. With U-turn or Teleport, Mega Orbeetle can use Analyze to scout an opponent's full moveset and then pivot out to an informed counter. In terms of offense, its Body Presses have gotten significantly stronger.
 
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Pokemon: Gengar
Mega Stat Changes: N/A
Ability: Psycho Zone
New Movepool Additions: Hone Claws, Stone Edge
Description: Hone Claws boosts the accuracy of Mega Kick, giving it a 144 BP Psychic STAB without any drawbacks. It also boosts the accuracy of Poltergeist to avoid random misses, as well as Hypnosis, putting even Ferrothorn and Mandibuzz to sleep. Speaking of Mandibuzz, Stone Edge also gives Gengar an option to hit it super-effectively.



Pokemon: Orbeetle
Mega Stat Changes: -10 Defense, + 10 Special Attack (60/45/140/140/120/100)
Ability: Competitive
New Movepool Additions: Thunderbolt, Heat Wave
Description: Orbeetle lays down Sticky Web that makes it hard for defoggers to remove thanks to its ability, Competitive. At +2, it able to OHKO Corviknight with Thunderbolt while having an 81% chance to OHKO Mandibuzz. Heat Wave gives it an option to hit Steel-types such as Ferrothorn and Magearna hard.


Pokemon: Toxtricity
Mega Stat Changes: -5 Attack, -7 Defense, +5 Special Attack, +7 Speed (75/106/93/134/100/94)
Ability: Liquid Voice
New Movepool Additions: N/A
Description: Upon Mega Evolution, Toxtricity transitions from being a guitarist and now becomes the lead singer of the band. Liquid Voice turns Boomburst into a Water-type move, allowing it to hit its Ground-type checks hard. In particular, its Boomburst OHKOes Hippowdon and Mega Sandaconda while getting a guaranteed 2HKO on Pivot Rotom-H. 94 Speed allows it to outpace Mega Sandaconda and Excadrill.
 

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