Now that the first retooling slate is over and round 1 of WCOP has ended, I want to raise a concern about retooling Cinderace. Cinderace has proven to be a top 5 offensive threat, if not a top 5 Pokémon. The combination of high speed and decent attack with its movepool and Libero make it a really stellar pokemon. This is where the problem arises. As I see it, there are basically three things you can do with a Megamax:
A potential solution to this is to increase Cinderace's base stats until it is stronger than the base form even without Libero. The following calc is Jolly Libero Cinderace U-turn against a 252HP/252Def Bold Typeless Mew.
In order to have the same attacking power as base Cinderace with its coverage moves, Cinderace-Mega would have to have 235 Base attack. For reference, a 235 base attack Adamant Nature Cinderace is stronger than Banded Tyranitar. This is also an impossible change: 235-116>100, meaning that it is not mathematically possible to make Mega Cinderace stronger with its coverage than base Ace while still having an ability that mitigates hazard chip.
This leaves a potential submission with a few options:
Option 2 will most likely be outclassed by base Ace. Base Ace is a pivot with access to STAB U-Turn and none of the drawbacks of Bug Typing. I don't really see many dual types that could improve its ability as a pivot. At the end of the day, Cinderace is one of the best offensive pivots ever created. It's going to be quite difficult for any submission to be a more effective offensive pivot.
Option 3 will likely be outclassed by base Ace. Taking 25% from Stealth Rocks sucks, and the power increase probably will not be enough to justify the lack of longevity, especially given that balance is so good right now. What balance team would pick a breaker that can't use boots and dies to Stealth Rock over a fantastic offensive pivot that can use boots and has stronger coverage?
Option 4 has a chance of working, especially if the second type resists rock. Something like Fire/Steel (as earl suggested) could be good, especially with a good offensive ability.
The point of this post is to show that making Mega Cinderace is going to be extremely difficult. If we make it a better regular Cinderace, it is going to be broken. If we try and preserve its niche as a pivot without Libero, it will likely be outclassed by base Ace. I believe that the only way to make a Mega Cinderace that is both viable (not outclassed) and not broken is to give it a second type and an offensive ability.
- Add/change the typing
- Change the ability
- Add/subtract moves
A potential solution to this is to increase Cinderace's base stats until it is stronger than the base form even without Libero. The following calc is Jolly Libero Cinderace U-turn against a 252HP/252Def Bold Typeless Mew.
252 Atk Libero Cinderace Zen Headbutt vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mew: 87-103 (21.5 - 25.4%) -- 0.4% chance to 4HKO
This leaves a potential submission with a few options:
- Keep Libero and go for base stat and movepool changes (dual typing won't matter with libero, and it will presumably have to keep the fire type)
- Add a typing, keep a defensive ability, and change base stats and movepool
- Give Mega Cinderace an offensive ability, keep the mono-fire type, and change base stats and movepool
- Give Mega Cinderace an offensive ability, make it dual-type, and change the base stats and movepool
Option 2 will most likely be outclassed by base Ace. Base Ace is a pivot with access to STAB U-Turn and none of the drawbacks of Bug Typing. I don't really see many dual types that could improve its ability as a pivot. At the end of the day, Cinderace is one of the best offensive pivots ever created. It's going to be quite difficult for any submission to be a more effective offensive pivot.
Option 3 will likely be outclassed by base Ace. Taking 25% from Stealth Rocks sucks, and the power increase probably will not be enough to justify the lack of longevity, especially given that balance is so good right now. What balance team would pick a breaker that can't use boots and dies to Stealth Rock over a fantastic offensive pivot that can use boots and has stronger coverage?
Option 4 has a chance of working, especially if the second type resists rock. Something like Fire/Steel (as earl suggested) could be good, especially with a good offensive ability.
The point of this post is to show that making Mega Cinderace is going to be extremely difficult. If we make it a better regular Cinderace, it is going to be broken. If we try and preserve its niche as a pivot without Libero, it will likely be outclassed by base Ace. I believe that the only way to make a Mega Cinderace that is both viable (not outclassed) and not broken is to give it a second type and an offensive ability.