Welcome to Smogon! Take a moment to read the Introduction to Smogon for a run-down on everything Smogon, and make sure you take some time to read the global rules.
Before I get started, a quick run-down of how this works:
Each vote contributes one point to its first-place choice
The candidates are ordered based on both the number of first-place votes and the number of total votes, and eliminated from the bottom
Any vote whose first choice has been eliminated instead gives its point to its second choice, or whatever its next ranking is. (On the sheet, points that have moved in this manner are highlighted in yellow.)
The elimination and re-ranking process continues until there are two remaining, upon which the one with more points is the winner.
Mega Evolution awakens a primordial, berserk aura in Snorlax, a la Z-Energy, bringing out a highly aggressive and wild being that was once dormant and lazy. What results is a mixed attacking menace that dips into Snorlax's absolutely bananas offensive movepool, consisting of coverage up the ass and really quirky setup options in Belly Drum and Work Up. Coverage like BoltBeam, Hydro Pump, Darkest Lariat, Focus Blast, Gunk Shot, Rock Slide, Earthquake, Fire Blast, and then random options like Seed Bomb and Shadow Ball are all incredibly potent in their own right, and are not only super augmented by the gigantic burst in SpAtk gain, but pair amazingly with its offensive typing. Plus, let's be fair, Snorlax's base stats don't really need a lot of help and this lets Snorlax take a more fun angle that plays to its wacky ass kit.
Now, let's talk about Quick Feet. Did you guys know that Sleep actually boosts Quick Feet? I just learned that, and boy is this one a doozy. Before we get to Sleep, though, let's talk about how status is a fairly important and common-place interaction with base Snorlax, especially if it opts for Belly Drum. It detests Burn and Paralysis, but notably... it packs STAB Facade which bypasses Burn and is instead heightened to hellish strength. Burn and Paralysis actually buff it, with Burn in particular really giving Work Up variants a gigantic buff with Facade and Focus Blast ripping through 90% of things. Quick Feet in particular is more interesting for this than Guts because it already would pack the strength it would naturally want, and Quick Feet instead lets it play more into a practical mixed wallbreaking role and actually incentivizes it to soak status. If it decides to play into a bulky Belly Drum/Work Up set and decides to use Rest, it can give itself a Speed boost and even viably use Snore, which is probably the most satisfying thing ever. Of course, RestTalk is also likely just as potent, and it has the natural STAB combo to really excel with just two attacks while letting it play to its natural bulk and defensive utility which is augmented by a stronger defensive typing. With Quick Feet, I was careful to make sure it wouldn't hit the important 130 threshold. Basically, with Quick Feet, Snorlax becomes a very weird, multi-faceted status absorber that plays to its amazing coverage, weird setup options, bulk, and typing that lets it play a completely different game as an offensive Pokemon compared to its base counterpart.
New moves: Flamethrower, Thunderbolt, Vacuum Wave Description: As proven by Kirby, you are what you eat. In this case, Swalot has eaten so many things that, in its mega form, its able to change its body composition and structure very easily, adapting to its opponents. Mega-Swalot uses Protean to make itself a strong mixed attacking threat thanks to its good coverage. It may seem best to just use Thunderbolt+Ice Beam at first, but Swalot's physical options, notably Earthquake and Gunk Shot can hit especially important targets such as Heatran, Slowking-Galar, Clefable and Tapu Fini (In the case of the fairies, Gunk Shot hits harder than Sludge Bomb due to higher base power and their lower physical defense). However, unlike other Protean users, its bulk is also very good and its pure Poison typing lets it switch-in easily against most opponents that lack Earthquake and its access to Recover means it can keep its defensive utility throughout a game. It's also slower than Greninja and Cinderace, meaning it can't adapt very well to fast opponents, though it can mess with slower pokemon such as Melmetal. It still gains access to Vacuum Wave though, giving it a very favorable matchup against the Dark types of the format, Weavile and Greninja, even if they catch it on a type they can hit super-effectively. Overall, Mega-Swalot is a good wallbreaker that also tends to have some nice defensive utility thanks to its Poison typing on switch-in, which allows it to check threats such as Calm Mind Clefable and Tapu Fini as well as Rillaboom. Its coverage allows it to threaten many defensive pokemon and its access to Vacuum Wave allows it to check/revenge-kill Weavile, Greninja and Kartana.
Mega Wailord
Ability: Uplifting
All Pokémon on the field are Ungrounded while Wailord is active HP: 170 Atk: 110 Def: 65 SpA: 110 SpD: 65 Spe: 85
New Moves: Shore Up, Rapid Spin (both Distributed to Wailmer)
Uplifting competitively doesn’t seem to do much for Wailord, but combined with its other additions, and what it can actually do, it becomes quite cool.
Terrain
Making every Pokémon ungrounded removes most effects of terrain, but most importantly in the current metagame, allows Wailord to be the only Mon able to Toxic Tapu Fini while Misty terrain is up, it also allows it to hypothetically deal with Tapu Lele if it was unbanned, and Mega Dragalge is substantially weakened by it. But it is still weak to Grass and Electric giving some merit to future Pokémon with this ability having a different defensive profile.
Spikes
The best move in Pokémon, pretty much. Is entirely changed by this ability, spikes on both sides of the field are invalidated when Wailord is on the field not removing their impact but changing what they do, shielding your opponent from your spikes if you chose to build around them, but also a Spikes immune rapid spinner like Wailord can fit very well on some certain structures.
Wailord
Now to be clear, Wailords ability is pretty much just a facet to its competitive applications, it’s already good movepool, combined with the additions, and the ease of splashability(I broke rule 7 ;]) in Teambuilding as a Bulky Water, with spin, that’s immune to spikes, and can check Tapu fini while not being passive or slow. It adds lots of new avenues for Balanced and Bulky Offense teams in the builder, while providing so much for the next part of this.
Sand Teams
Sand has seen a recent high in M4A, with the loss of certain Pokémon Mega Flygon has been rising and rising, coming into its own as what I would call a top-tier threat, now not only is this Mega Wailord, one of the by far most consistent checks to Mega Flygon+Excadrill, it adds so much to standard Tyranitar sand in being that anti-sand measure and providing spin, and forcing scald burns and toxic on the Pokémon that complete the defensive cores. While also benefitting massively from the addition of Shore Up for recovery.
Flavorwise
It’s actually, quite cool how well this fits with Wailord, I mentioned how Wailord is inspired by a blimp, but we were also inspired by the song from Mary Poppins where laughing causes people to float. Kero suggested Shore Up because it has the most flavorful sense with Wailmer being based upon a Beach Ball. And Rapid spin is pretty self explanatory.
As you may or may not be aware, this marks the beginning of (yet) another break from submissions!
We don't have a timeframe yet for when we're going to be opening things up again, but bear with us as we sort some things out in preparation. We've got some kind of radical plans that we're real excited about, and hopefully you will be too!
Whenever we're ready to make announcements, rest assured you'll be the first to hear! I'll see you all then. :eyes:
I have two news for you. One of them involves a Balance Change poll on Mega Meganium to make it work where it's supposed to shine: alongside Groudon in M4A VGC Restricted. You will find a more detailed explanation on the Balance Change below, as well as a link to the poll.
Recently, I've been working with Indigo on ink's Mega Meganium, making sure it can be more effective in a format where it would actually shine: M4A VGC Restricted. For those who are unfamiliar with ink's Mega Meganium, it has the ability Flower Gift which boosts its Atk and SpD in Sun. This also applies to its ally. Currently, Mega Meganium has the following stats:
80 HP
117 Atk
110 Def
118 SpA
120 SpD
80 Spe.
As the VGC Restricted format is very powerful--after all, it features Pokémon like Zacian or Kyogre--, Mega Meganium needs specific tools and a more optimized stat distribution to justify a place in the metagame, especially over Cherrim, which is a non restricted Pokémon. As a reminder, you can only have up to 2 restricted Pokémon on a team, which are usually box legendary Pokémon.
So, what I have in mind is this:
80 HP
122 Atk (+40)
115 Def (+15)
103 (+20)
110 SpD (+10)
95 (+15)
Explanation:
- base 95 Speed makes Mega Meganium outspeed Groudon so that the latter can attack right after Mega Meganium.
- base 122 Atk is for more EV flexibility and to make sure it won't stay passive in front of Xerneas or Calyrex-Shadow-Rider.
- base 115 Def makes sure Mega Meganium can tank Dragon Ascent from (M) Rayquaza and attacks from Zacian with Intimidate support
- base 110 SpD gives Mega Meganium sufficient bulk to tank special hits from Xerneas, Kyogre, and Calyrex-Shadow-Rider
- rest went into SpA if anyone wants to take advantage of Weather Ball in Singles. Mega Meganium seems to have already what it needs
New Moves: - String Shot, Jungle Healing
String Shot, which is a move Venusaur knows, gives the Sun archetype a form of really good Speed control they always wanted and enables Groudon very well (Eruption, for instance). It's also a way to make Meganium different from Cherrim. Jungle Healing makes Meganium and its ally more resilient, which is important because Meganium is primarily a support Mega Pokémon with some offensive pressure and needs to stay on the field as long as possible. Since Meganium already has so many new moves, some of them will be removed. Calm Mind comes to my mind because, with Jungle Healing, it might just end up being dumb in Singles. Rock Slide will be next one. It likely doesn't need it in VGC as coverage is less important due to the presence of an ally, and I imagine Weather Ball would be the superior option in Singles to take care of pesky Steel Pokémon, like (M) Corviknight and (M) Scizor, among others.
You need to sign in with your email account to participate in the poll. Don't worry, though. Your email account won't be shown at all.
Now, for those who are interested in M4A VGC, I have come up with generalized sample sets for many Pokémon of the metagame to ease the entry to it. Not only did I include Pokémon that are very useful and effective in the metagame, which makes for about 80% of the sets, but I also paid attention to some less viable Pokémon, if not extremely niche. It is an attempt to give casual and competitive players sth they can fall back and have a fun time when they build a team. The sets will be updated from time to time to add new stuff or correct a mistake. Some of the pokepastes contain more than one set, others include team suggestions. Almost every pokepaste features damage calculations to make you understand the purpose of each set's EVs. I purposely left out canon Mega Pokémon like Metagross because this is M4A VGC, and the primary focus is the custom Mega Pokémon. I might add the canon ones in the future.
With that being said, I wish you all a great time! I will soon update the M4A VGC viability ranking. So, stay tuned!
As you can see, I have some news for you! The M4A VGC metagame is always in a state of change since people keep adding new stuff and making new discoveries. Since there are not that many people involved in this metagame unlike Singles, it is easy to forget the impact of a particular Pokémon or examine its potential. So, if you believe a Pokémon should be ranked or reranked, let us know. We can all discuss your suggestions! If you have some questions concerning the ranking of a Pokémon, feel free to ask! We'll be happy to explain it to you.
Below, you'll find the current viability ranking for M4A VGC.
S-Rank
Reserved for the very best Pokemon in the VGC metagame. These Pokemon are usually able to perform a variety of roles effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this tier have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.
- [ S ]-
(Mega) (Mega) (Mega)
A-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that are outstanding in the VGC metagame and can handle various field positions effectively or support multiple win conditions. These Pokemon require less support than other Pokemon to be used effectively and have few flaws that can be overlooked when compared to their outstanding traits.
- [ A+] -
(Mega) (Mega) (Single-Strike)
- [ A ] -
(Mega) (Mega) (Mega)
- [ A- ] -
(Mega) (Mega) (Mega) (Mega) (Mega) (Mega) (Mega)
B-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon who are great in the VGC metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than of those above it that affects how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential. Their niches are often slightly smaller than those that are in A and S rank, which leads them to face some competition for a teamslot.
- [ B+ ] -
(Mega) (Mega) (Rapid-Strike)
- [ B ] -
(Mega) (Mega) (Mega)
- [ B- ] -
(Mega) (Mega)
C-Rank
Reserved for Pokemon that have notable niches in the VGC metagame, but have just as notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective in VGC. C rank Pokemon tend to find themselves outclassed by Pokemon in the above tiers, and face a lot of competition for a team slot.
An important update from the leaders of Megas for All
Hi, everyone!
We've been talking as a council recently, and we've concluded that there are some things we need to change about the structure of the mod going forward.
This might seem like a big change to make for those of us who've been with the mod for a long time, but all of us have a great deal of confidence that it's a change for the better!
On the council's part, this decision was unanimous and was received very positively, and we've carefully considered all of the details. Even if you have doubts at first, we're hoping we can win everyone over if we're given the chance to try it out!
I am aware that this is wAY too much information and way too long, so there is a tl;dr by inkbug and KeroseneZanchu at the end!
For those who are still interested in reading the whole thing, thank you for your patience :'D
Every once in a while - roughly every ten slates - Megas for All will begin a new season.
A new season is a "soft reboot" of sorts - each season will come with its own format, its own all-new batch of Megas created over the course of its own ten-ish slates, and its own set of rules.
Every "season" is primarily focused on developing its new batch of Megas, so they are not meant to include all of the Megas that came before them, canon or otherwise; instead, we will usually more or less start fresh for a given season, and our goal will be to perfect each format and make it the best we can on its own rather than in relation to the rest of the mod.
We will always start a season with a general roadmap of planned slates (for instance, there are already 30 Pokémon that we have in mind to slate for this next season, although it's possible for our plans to evolve as we progress).
Once we have reached the end of that roadmap and refined the balance of the format to our satisfaction, we will celebrate the format we've made with a "sendoff tour" of sorts, then move forward with another new season.
In the process, we will still be making just one Mega Evolution for every Pokémon over a long period of time, but those Mega Evolutions are now being designed for formats where they can all thrive individually in manageable batches, not being designed to compete with every other Mega Evolution.
Megas from old seasons are not meant to be fully retired, though! It's just that none of them has a "free pass" into every future season.
Instead - at our own discretion, as often as we like and based on the needs of the format we are creating - we may choose to bring back Megas that already exist, from canon or from past M4A seasons.
The goal of doing so should be to complement the new Megas of the current season as well as possible - this could be because the old Mega fills an important role that will make the current format more balanced or more fun, or it could be because something in particular about the new format works well to show off a side of the old Mega that hasn't been explored as effectively.
That said, there will generally not be a lot of old Mega Evolutions in the format; our goal will be to identify the best candidates for the format, not to include "as many as we can justify," and our primary focus is still on creating new Mega Evolutions for the format instead.
For those of you who are familiar with the Fusion Evolution series of mods, this process might be compared to the development of Fusion Evolution Lower Tiers, which revolve primarily around creating new metagames from scratch with new fusions but periodically drop small batches of fusions from past metagames based on how well they fit into the new one.
The reason each of our seasons is smaller - only 10 slates - is because, unlike fusions, Mega Evolutions cannot carry a metagame on their own; each Mega Evolution is competing for only one team slot, and the other five teamslots are still being filled with vanilla Pokémon from official formats, while the fusions introduced by Fusion Evolution are designed to be used together and are the only Pokémon available in their metagames, making it more feasible to introduce larger numbers by the completion of a metagame.
In short, the point of "soft-rebooting" is so that the format we are working on at any given moment doesn't feel weighed down by a massive number of legacy Mega Evolutions and doesn't need to be able to sustain all of them.
To explain, it is unfortunately a fundamental problem of M4A OU as it exists that everything we have ever created is competing for just one slot on a team.
We are already reaching a breaking point where it's increasingly difficult for any one of them to justify being used in high-level play, short of being controversial and maybe-broken just to compete - a problem that will only worsen as we get even remotely close to our stated goal of a Mega for every Pokémon.
With this in mind, we have decided that it would be beneficial to impose a soft limit on the number of Mega Evolutions in any given metagame and design them around these smaller groups, where each individual Mega faces less competition.
A seasonal rotation lets us phase out existing Megas from our formats without removing them from the context they were made for, meaning the strongest old Megas don't need to be nerfed or to be actively power-crept, competed with or built around; our new creations don't have to contend with them unless we make the conscious choice to add them back because we believe they work well in the current format.
In turn, separating Megas into their own metas also allows us to preserve old Megas in the original context they were made for, without fear that they will be shoved to the side or outcompeted as more competition arises. In that sense, rotating Megas in and out improves the well-being of both the Megas that already exist and the new ones we have to make.
Probably the most important things to clarify:
- All past seasons of M4A will remain playable on DH, and they are not meant to be forgotten.
Instead, one of the benefits here is that it lets us diversify the number of high-quality formats we might have at our disposal for future team tours and similar - you might compare this to the Generations format of M4Auction, for instance, but more deliberately designed and internally balanced! - as each season has its own set of rules and its own set of potential Megas and can become a very different environment.
Ideally, we should be proud of and happy with each and every one of them by the time we move on from working on it!
A season also doesn't have to be officially "done" and "locked" as soon as we move onto slates for a new season; we can always revisit them with balance changes when we think there's something that needs to be improved, and in much the same sense that old Megas always have a chance to return to newer formats when they fit in well, we can even think about crossing over new Megas into old formats as we make them (just as long as they are primarily made for the season at hand)!
- In addition, "M4A OU"(affectionately: "Megas for Literally All")will continue to exist as its own playable format!
M4A OU, just like it exists right now, will be a Natdex-based metagame in which every Mega we have ever made as part of M4A v6 and v7 is playable, regardless of its season or home format.
The main difference from now is that M4A OU will no longer be our primary competitive focus and will no longer be the format we build Megas for.
Instead, M4A OU is preserved as more of a casual crossover format - an environment where people can explore all past submissions on their own terms, fighting other people who are doing the same, and just having fun with it.
We will not be expected to worry about M4A OU when making new Megas; from this point, the current season's metagame will be our sole focus.
- M4A VGC will not be affected by the switch to rotating seasons or periodic soft-reboots - the format we have now, in which all Megas we have ever created are legal, will continue to be our primary competitive VGC format for the foreseeable future!
To be perfectly clear, VGC was not at all a factor in the decision to restructure the mod; its current state is actually regarded very positively, at least internally, and we don't think the "problems" with M4A OU in its current state have affected VGC in the same way.
This may change in the future at the discretion of our tier leader, BlueRay, and the format may also begin to see more tiering action if there are concerns that any individual Mega Evolution is unhealthy for VGC and may need to be banned.
- However, on the topic of rotating formats, we will also try to have one special VGC format at a time, usually very lighthearted and fun formats corresponding to themed tour events! This would be stuff like our one-time Kalos Dex tour, Mega Spooky Cup, the Crown Tundra-themed "VGCcret Santa," and our upcoming Legends: Arceus-themed Hisui Dex tour, which currently exists as a playable format on DH (more on that later!).
Formats like this will generally include every Mega Evolution that exists for any legal Pokémon, so they can be seen as another form of crossover between Megas of different seasons in a wider range of environments.
To be totally clear: what's actually changing does not remove any of the options you will have as a casual player!
It primarily concerns our submission process(in the direction of substantially lowering our barrier to entry and giving you fewer other Mega Evolutions to worry about, making it much easier to create a viable Mega Evolution that will actually see use in its home format, and giving us all more flexibility to take bold risks without worrying about the impact the Pokémon might have on future slates) and our competitive scene(in the direction of easing teambuilding and limiting the number of meta-relevant threats you're expected to take into consideration at a time, but also giving a wider range of formats to learn and more chances to try new things).
You will always be able to play with any of the Pokémon we've created in their own home formats (and you might even find you have a favorite format! would you try to learn them all over time or be committed to mastering the one you enjoy playing the most? or both!! some of you guys are really scarily good at this P:), and you'll also always still be able to participate in a casual match of M4A OU to play with Megas that don't normally coexist, but the tournament scene will probably look pretty different going forward (hopefully for the better!) and the format of focus will change more often than usual.
How will different seasons look?
"Past" Seasons of M4A
Okay, so--
since we've gone through 42 slates so far, we have definitely made, uh, more than just one "season's" worth of new Megas, and many of them already face problems with being able to shine in a format with so much competition for one teamslot.
With this in mind, it may not be immediate and is not expected to take priority over making new seasons, but we are definitely considering making some additional retroactive formats - "seasons 1 through 4" or so? - that are each tailored to a smaller batch of Megas we have already made, following the same sorts of design principles (and allowing the same sorts of rule variations) as any new season and with balance changes focused on internal balance for all of the Megas in these much smaller sets.
Like any new season, by default, these retroactive seasons are not expected to support any canon Megas, nor any of the Megas we make outside of their designated batch, and the priority is on tailoring them to secure viability for as many as possible of the allowed Megas.
However, we can and should remain open to adding Mega Evolutions from canon or from other seasons on a case-by-case basis. (It's still okay if they came chronologically later - we don't have to prioritize "authenticity!" For one example that came up, even if Mega Talonflame didn't exist until after the timeframe we're saying is season 1, it can still be added if we're interested in the way it interacts with Mega Corviknight.)
For some examples of rule changes we might support, suppose - hypothetically - that our "season 1" starts out with the intention of representing as many Megas as possible from slates 1 through 11 (all of v6 of the mod).
One thing that might stand out at a glance is that this includes some Megas that make their home in Ubers right now - Dragapult, Cinderace, Rillaboom and Butterfree - but is there anything we can do to change that?
For instance, maybe we would be able to unban non-Mega Dragapult within reason if we didn't have to allow Z-Crystals, and that would allow us to tailor Mega Dragapult to the season 1 metagame and give it a solid and positive presence.
The idea of banning Z-Crystals to unban Dragapult is just an example(and may not be a good one P:), but what I want to stress is that it's only possible because season 1's rules do not have to apply to every single format.
Banning Z-Crystals in a situation like this is not a mod-spanning decision, but a rule change that is made to improve the state of just one format, and the rest of the mod going forward has no need to stick to it rigidly.
It's possible that a completely different set of Mega Evolutions could thrive and be viable in an environment without Z-Moves than in one where those are present, and that's one of the selling points of a restructuring like this: we become able to make those choices and create different environments for different Mega Evolutions.
Going forward, we'll be able to start a metagame from scratch, observe the differences that emerge from its ruleset, and design Megas that account for those differences and can thrive because of the differences in their environments.
In general, non-Mega Ubers and other ruleset changes should always be evaluated on a per-season basis instead of having to affect all of them! Our tiering action so far has been oriented towards M4A OU, which is its own format separate from the season boundaries we're establishing now; it is entirely possible that there may be different calls to make in the environments created by different seasons.
All of this said, considering that all of our Megas so far have been designed for a Natdex OU format, I think it would be best to conclude that all retroactive past seasons of M4A will still use Natdex OU as their foundation, and we should only make incremental rule changes to improve them as formats.
But, uh, that brings us to one of the bigger differences about...
Future Seasons of M4A
Unlike the mod's history so far, our future seasons don't have to be "backwards-compatible" - they are not expected to support all (or even necessarily very many) of the Mega Evolutions we've already made - and they also don't have to be "future-proof" or oriented towards eventually supporting a Mega for every Pokémon. These things are what M4A OU is for; they do not have to weigh us down when we focus on developing new metagames, and it would be redundant and needlessly constraining to make every future season as close as possible to M4A OU.
One thing I remember about early M4A in Gen VIII is that the question of whether the mod would be based on Natdex or the Galar dex was settled, quite simply, by saying (roughly) "we literally can't make Megas for All if they aren't all in the format, can we?" Natdex was effectively chosen "by default," only because we believed we had to be able to do all of this in one format.
Well... that's not the case any more, so one of the most interesting design spaces we have available to us now is making Megas for regional dex formats in future slates - not only the Galar dex, but also something like our one-time Kalos dex VGC tour, or any other region whose dex we feel would make for an interesting format!
We will, as mentioned, be rotating a season's "theme" after about ten slates each time - in other words, it's not as though we would be "stuck" working on the Unova dex all the way until we do a Mega for every Gen V Pokémon!
But exploring different formats with each passing season can allow us to make bolder experiments and decide how different contexts should shape the design and power level of our Mega Evolutions, and each one may have different niches to fill and different non-Mega threats to answer from what we're used to. We can have a lot of fun with this!
Regional dex formats aside, there are also plenty of new options for Natdex-based formats, at least one of which people have been waiting for for a pretty long time:
Historically, I have been preeetty uncomfortable with the idea of "opening the floodgates" of M4A Ubers.
My concern was that, once we had a playable Ubers format, there would be much less stopping people from making Megas that are overpowered on purpose, with the idea that "being banworthy isn't a bad thing - I just made it for Ubers."
I have never wanted to allow Ubers to become a messy territory for "rejects," the way it has been in past M4A formats by other leaders; in my opinion, it still should be a format that's meaningfully balanced and carefully designed on its own level, and we should avoid putting anything in Ubers that doesn't absolutely need to be.
Here's where that changes! With our new structure of seasonal rotations...
- the existence of the Ubers format cannot affect anything but Megas that are specifically slated for Ubers;
- all of us can be active about exploring and understanding M4A Ubers as a metagame for the period of time when it is the mod's focus, instead of most people designing from the perspective of a mod about OU; and
- once an Ubers-based season has concluded, we can safely return to "build for the current format, not for Ubers" as a rule, and there will be no reason anything should end up Uber by accident because the Ubers-based format we make is simply not the same thing as the banlist for all of our others.
In fact, we don't even have to have only one Ubers format!
If it seems unfeasible for the same format to support, say, Mega Eternatus and Mega Pheromosa, we can absolutely have an Ubers format that gives Megas to dominant, relevant Ubers and another that's meant for the weaker "OUBL" types of Pokémon at distinct power levels; there are definitely enough Pokémon that are strong enough to justify Megas in an Ubers-based format that doing just one season would probably be pretty overstuffed anyway.
Dividing Pokémon into seasons like this gives us a ton more breathing room to make fun, diverse formats featuring Pokémon we would have eventually given Megas anyway without becoming overwhelmed, and it will definitely work in our favor in the long term.
There are even some wackier, more experimental ideas we could explore going forward!
- We can make our own micrometas featuring a curated, meta-specific selection of Pokémon instead of an entire regional dex;
- one fun idea that came up during discussion was to make a miniature "Megas for All" in which every legal Pokémon is one that will have a Mega by the end of the season (i.e. by the time the season is complete, there will be a 100% chance that every Pokémon on your opponent's team is a potential Mega);
- and this might sound crazy and might not be something we mess with right away, but there has certainly been some... iiinteresting speculation about M4A formats set in other Generations............. maybe? no? well, we'll see P:
Generally speaking: future M4A seasons being based on Natdex OU but with clean slates of Megas will probably still happen often and may be something of a "default"(especially to avoid alienating existing players or undermining people's current understanding of the format!), but we will have the ability to experiment with other concepts much more than we could until now.
We'll be open to feedback here for sure as we figure things out - we may trend towards doing "experimental" formats like the above either more frequently or more rarely depending on how they turn out to be received in practice.
As a possible generalization, you might expect to see more already-existing Megas brought back in formats that are less similar to Natdex OU (because the format might have more to gain from being grounded in what we know and might recontextualize them in interesting ways), compared to more of a focus on exclusively new Megas in formats that are more similar to Natdex OU (with only a few past Megas brought back to suit our new creations' needs).
For example, if we cut down to a regional dex format that has little in common with the M4A we know and love (or a wackier format whose very mechanics might directly or indirectly change the way existing Megas operate, like one set in another Generation if we do ever play with that concept), we might be more likely to start out with a selection of existing Megas that are included in that dex and take a bit to learn how they play together before we start making changes.
On the other hand, if a new format is primarily based on Natdex OU with just a few rule changes, we would start out from scratch and wait until we know the needs of our existing Megas before we even consider bringing back old ones.
Okay, I hope that makes sense and checks out to everyone!
How will seasons operate and be managed?
This is one of the other bigger changes and something we're really excited about in the council!
Although our next season will probably be led mostly by ink and me while we on the council acclimate and figure things out, in future seasons, we will be handing off mod leadership to other members of the council!
I explained above that each season will probably have a different concept of sorts, like different tiers, regional dexes or rulesets - well, the general planning and direction for each season/format will be in the hands of a different leader or two each time, not all up to the same person!
In addition, that leader's creative vision and expectations may bring them to make different judgment calls on things like sub legality and vetoes, movepool additions and so on - things you've mostly seen coming from me until now.
The Pokémon that we slate to receive Megas each time will also be planned by the leader of the season, and like I noted earlier, we will generally have a roadmap planned up front for the entire season's duration or at least most of it(we may need to leave room to make adjustments on the fly as the format develops, though - there are details we'll have to iron out by experimentation, so please be patient with us!), usually with specific reasons in mind.
This will be a very collaborative process; the council member in charge of the season will take charge and be given full rights to make final calls, but we'll all be chipping in to make it both as fun for everyone and as easy on them as possible, and we'll also all be taking a more active role in in-thread submission feedback than usual rather than leading it in one person's hands.
A season piloted by someone else might end up with a totally different vibe from the mod as you've known it under my ownership, and I'm really excited to see what everyone brings to the table!
Speaking of submission feedback, there's something else that might be changing about the way we run slates going forward, which - trust me - will definitely lead to big improvements internally.
You guys know the veto post, right? That big thing I formalized at the beginning of v7 that's supposed to happen 24 hours before the end of every slate but that I don't think I have gotten done on time once in the last year?
As I understand it, it's a little bit dreaded by submitters and has historically scared some people off from subbing to the mod at all; even lightheartedly, people often comment about how relieved they are not to be in it; and although I hate to say it, I have also personally seen people teased for getting vetoed too often, and that makes it it feel really bad to be responsible for writing it in the first place(and I've also felt self-conscious myself about certain people needing to be in it - or about how wrong it feels to contradict some people about their subs - because I hate the idea that getting constructive criticism in the veto post is something other people are going to take as a reflection of the submitter).
Plus it's just... a really, really negative process no matter how you look at it - I as a mod leader have to comb through all of the submissions listing out nothing but "why we shouldn't allow this," actively looking for the worst in an increasingly vast number of subs, and it's really draining and makes me second-guess my role in the mod - while casting my votes a day later (highlighting the subs I like the most!) never fails to remind me how excited I am just to see your submissions as they are, to see how many insanely creative, smart and inspired people there are in this community, and to give positive feedback to them even just in my own head. Something we as a mod badly need is for the formal sub review process to be something more positive, and that's where this other big change comes in.
Starting with slate 43, the submission process will be characterized somewhat differently - we will look at submissions from the angle of selecting several approvals, not vetoes.
Our goal will be to identify submissions that we feel have the most solid creative and mechanical direction, that accomplish their design goals the best and that would be welcomed into the current format, and we will provide positive feedback explaining why each of these was selected and why they are effective as role models. Where possible, we will also highlight submissions we feel are close to being approved and explain how we would recommend improving on them, in the hopes that people can learn as much as possible from this process and that no serious ideas are completely passed up on, which will fill a somewhat more similar role to the feedback in existing vetoes.
It is not necessarily expected that every sub will be approved by the end of a slate, nor will every single sub either be approved or receive feedback.
It is also worth noting that having a short description (or even no description) is not a problem and will not stop anyone from getting approved! The description is definitely a good place to provide justifications if you're worried some part of your idea may not come through on its own or if you really want to sell us on it and make it look impressive P:, but the council is full of people who know what to look for and can read between the lines a bit, and you can trust that we will analyze and understand every sub as best we can. Hey, our positive word in the feedback posts might even lighten your workload if you aren't sure what to say about your sub!
Basically: your submissions will not have to look any different from what you do now - only write what you're comfortable with, and have faith that your ideas will get the recognition and understanding they deserve. Worst-case scenario, you will have time to justify yourself if you think we overlooked something!
Where possible, this may be a more active process that happens more than once in the slate, instead of only doubling as the 24-hour warning; usually, we'll discuss subs as a council as we see them come in, and anyone on the council will be encouraged to make approvals and feedback in the thread whenever they have a minute. It may not be every day, but it also isn't an endpoint and you will have plenty of chances to get approvals throughout the slate.
To be clear, though: when voting starts, only specifically-acknowledged approved subs will be legal for voting - instead of singling out only the subs that we can't allow for voting, the council will be making metagame- and design-driven calls to narrow down a top cut and leaving it up to the community to choose their favorite of them.
This process might take a little bit of getting used to and it's possible that not everyone will be on board right away, but please give us a chance and let us show how committed we are to making it both as positive and as constructive a process as possible and to giving attention to every sub, just like we always do!
Even if it means any one sub may not always make the cut, you will not feel left behind and you will probably even get more out of it than the current veto system allows you to (and if you're really passionate about something getting in and have put a lot of care into it, trust us: we'll notice!).
Many key parts of our restructuring of the mod are fundamentally aimed at making it easier to submit and making the submission process feel better and more rewarding, and the move from vetoes to approvals is one of those things - even if an overall smaller list of approved subs might sound like a bad thing on paper, please believe me when I say none of us are the type to take shortcuts and it should feel a lot better as a submitter in practice.
Miscellaneous Updates:
Format Cleanup, Implications on Ongoing Tournaments
In tandem with this update, we have taken the opportunity to reorganize some of our existing formats (and substantially tone down the sheer number of unnecessary ones @.@), so here's a quick rundown of what has changed:
- We are live through slate 42! All recent balance changes have also been put into effect, up to and including BlueRay's previous post on Mega Meganium.
- As previously announced, the "Sandierbox" has been absorbed into the M4A Sandbox. That means the various bonus custom Abilities that KeroseneZanchu coded to help people test future subs can be used in any Sandbox battle, instead of being boxed off in their own separate format.
Additionally, the Sandbox now incorporates Mix and Mega mechanics and "M4Many" mechanics (there were a bunch of formats where players could use multiple Megas per team if they wanted, but they very rarely saw use), and it continues to grow as the most customizable M4A format for players to self-impose their own rules and test ideas that would not be legal in standard play.
Small heads-up: we would eventually like to make Mix and Mega rules compatible with the Sandbox Mod - the feature by Kero that allows you to play with custom types and base stats by manipulating nicknames - but they are not compatible just yet. You can still use both features independently, but Pokémon that are using Sandbox Mod cannot use Mega Stones other than the three designed for that purpose. I will figure it out eventually I hope!!
- Because of the changing role of "OU" in M4A, M4A UU will no longer be supported as an official tier, based on council support. However, it is possible that a future season format will be based on building around a lower tier, and the foundation that was laid for our M4A UU format may play a role in selecting returning Megas at such a time.
- As a relevant clarification, the validator for UU has long been outdated and incorrect, so people have already needed to cross-reference the actual banlists and self-impose the rules anyway. Having the validator around in this state was simply misleading, because it would allow use of many Pokémon that were not actually legal for the format. I also implemented the UU format in a weird and poorly-thought-out way that caused problems internally for very little gain.
Accordingly, we have already removed the UU validator from DH. UU is currently featured as one of the competitive formats in the M4ATour competition, but relying on the validator to verify team legality was not recommended, so its immediate removal was supported by the council. When building teams, participants in M4ATour should continue to rely on the lists of banned Pokémon pinned in the #m4a-uu-discussion channel on Discord as they have been.
- As previously announced, we're doing a fun VGC tour that uses the Hisui region's Pokédex after M4ATour is over! For player convenience, I have added the format to DH so you can test and validate your teams in advance. Legal Pokémon include the entire Hisui Pokédexexcept Restricted Pokémon and Mythical Pokémon (so all but the last 8!).
You should also be aware that only the regional forms that can be obtained in Legends: Arceus are allowed, meaning only the Kantonian forms of the following:
and only the Hisuian forms of the following:
(All forms of Vulpix, Ninetales and Sneasel can be obtained in Legends: Arceus, so they are all legal.)
- Signature moves aside, the following universal moves from Generation VIII have been added to every Hisuian Pokémon: Attract, Endure, Facade, Protect, Rest, Round, Sleep Talk, Snore, and Substitute. The most important of these is Protect, which is viable on most Pokémon in VGC and whose omission from Legends: Arceus would have been kind of crippling for them, haha; still, there are definitely uses for other moves, like Facade and Substitute, so we decided all of them were safe to add. No non-universal moves were added to the Pokémon in Legends, no matter how likely it may seem that they are meant to receive a move. Other than these nine moves, all of their learnsets are limited to the moves they have in canon. - By mistake, I left Enamorus out of receiving these moves. I will fix this before the tour! Sorry for the inconvenience cx
- One important note: Pokémon from Legends: Arceus are only coded in the Sandbox, so some of the Sandbox's features are present (specifically "Mix and Mega" features and the option to Mega Evolve multiple Pokémon in one team).
These are not part of the tournament's rules - do not use them!
- I addressed earlier that M4A OU is not intended to be our primary competitive format going forward, but as most are aware, M4A OU is currently featured as part of the PMPL tournament (the Pet Mods Premier League).
Paulluxx is the representative of M4A who has been most involved in setting up and hosting PMPL, and it is his decision that that tournament should continue to feature M4A OU regardless.
To ease the transition and avoid awkward conflicts of interest from our shift in focus as a mod:
- For the duration of PMPL, Mega Evolutions added in the next season of M4A will not be legal. Only Pokémon introduced in slate 42 or earlier (Pokémon that already exist as of this post) should be considered legal.
- Additionally, some members of our competitive council have still asked to be involved in making tiering action to make the M4A OU format as competitive as possible for tournament use. I will reiterate that M4A OU as a whole is not planned to be competitively driven going forward, but when it is involved in tournaments like PMPL, the competitive council's list of tourbans will be enforced. I do not personally have any part in this list of tourbans, but Paul is both the primary liaison between M4A and PMPL and one of the people involved in making it, so please defer to him for any future updates on this!
To the best of my knowledge, the current list of tourbans is as follows:
Mega Dodrio, Mega Empoleon, Mega Goodra, Mega Gourgeist-Small (other Gourgeist are allowed), Mega Jolteon, Mega Silvally-Ghost (other Silvally are allowed), Mega Slowking-Galar, Mega Starmie, Tapu Lele (not a Mega), Mega Toucannon and Mega Walrein
Some of these Pokémon may still be accepted by the OU validator, so please be aware that they are not legal in PMPL.
For all other purposes, the M4A OU validator is assumed to be accurate.
Next Season and Slate 43
Now that we're nearing the end of the post, we have some news about the next season of Megas for All!
From slate 43 through slate 52, M4A will be focused on a Kalos dex format, which we will begin with no preexisting Mega Evolutions - not even official ones that were included in the original X and Y!
Kalos works well as a starting point for a few reasons!
We'll still have a wide variety of Pokémon to work with for teambuilding (it's the largest regional Pokédex in the series other than post-DLC Galar), which should make for an easy transition that doesn't make us feel constrained by a limited dex, but it's also only about half the size of the National Dex format we're used to playing and omits many of the current strongest Pokémon in M4A, so it's a major shakeup at the same time and will allow us to explore a lower-power-level format in general.
At the same time, it's also pretty satisfying thematically - with Megas for All returning to our roots and demonstrating the potential of a "soft reboot" as we are, it just feels right to put our focus on the birthplace of Mega Evolution itself nO IT'S NOT HOENN-- and examine the potential of a world where entirely different Pokémon received Mega Evolutions from the start!
Based on council discussion:
- Z-Moves will not be allowed;
- no regional variants or evolutions from Alola, Galar or Hisui will be featured; and
- provisionally, we will be quickbanning Aegislash, Hoopa-Unbound and both forms of Greninja, pending further exploration.
However, all legal Pokémon and mechanics will still exist as they do in current (Natdex-based) Megas for All, including their complete movepools.
To help us get a better understanding of the format before we start building for it, you'll find a version of the Kalos dex format without any Mega Evolutions is already playable on DH!
We will open with slate 43 - introducing the first three Mega Evolutions to the format - in one week, and we hope to gather meaningful data and resources on the format during this time, before we start to add to it.
Please have this format in mind when designing your submissions! Remember, your submissions don't have to contend with any of the Mega Evolutions that currently exist, and the starting power level is lower than the Megas for All you know - you only need to focus on being usable in the limited Kalos dex format for now.
Lastly, slate 43 has been decided!
The first Mega Evolutions we introduce to the format will be Mega Gogoat, Mega Pyroar and Mega Clawitzer. Creating a distinct Mega Pyroar for each gender is potentially an option but will be strongly discouraged, as there are currently no mechanical differences between its two forms. Although their gender differences are visually pronounced, they are functionally no different from the gender differences of Pokémon like Venusaur and Blaziken, which only have one Mega Evolution.
If you would like to make two Mega Pyroar, be prepared to make your case well and know that you will be held to a higher standard than other subs accordingly.
TL;DR
YEAH SO THIS WAS A REALLY LONG UPDATE Some people here are probably used to it (sorry)
but for those of you who would like something a bit easier to parse, inkbug and KeroseneZanchu have contributed to a condensed version that focuses on the main points:
ink and Kero said:
What you need to know:
MfA is moving to a season-based format, with a season here being defined as "a self-contained metagame that we will build over the course of a predetermined amount of slates".
Our goal is still to create one Mega Evolution for every Pokemon, but with this setup they don't all have to coexist at once, and can each thrive on their own.
Each season will:
serve as its own format, independent of other seasons, even after its completion
have their own rulesets and banlists, make their own tiering decisions, and will have varying lists of allowed Mega Evolutions
not every Pokemon that exists in a given format in its base form may be allowed to Mega Evolve, even if it has a Mega Evolution in other formats
be under the management of a more specific leadership team, allowing for more personal and unique creative directions for seasons
this leadership will also be responsible for maintaining the format going forward, even after it's completed
Each season will not:
include every Mega Evolution we've ever made (or even every canon Mega Evolution in the format)
be abandoned once it's completed; previous seasons continue to exist
Our review process will be changing from here on out - to make the review process more manageable and more positive for both the community and the council, we will be changing away from a veto system, and towards a feedback and approval system going forward.
No more veto posts - they're ugly, stressful, time consuming, intimidating, and make people feel bad when they're put on there. There's a reason the veto post is the most common delay in recent history.
From now on, council will discuss subs as they come in and when we have time, approve quality subs and provide feedback for subs that still need work.
This removes the fear of being singled out for rejection a mere 24 hours before slates end, and instead replaces it with the opportunity to work with us and improve upon your ideas.
It also indirectly helps those of you with good ideas but who don't like to provide long descriptions for them - staff know what to look for and will now be praising them on your behalf!
What this means:
These changes will create a lot of freedom in both the community and the council - you all can explore more unique and compelling ideas without having to worry about meeting an extremely high OU-bordering-Ubers power level, and council members can share a larger workload and rotate responsibility.
(Less stress means less breaks and unannounced delays!)
The opportunity to explore more unique future formats like various different regional dexes, UU and Uber metas, or even other, wackier metas in the future! (Like how Mega Blastoise was designed with Triple Battles in mind.)
What this doesn't mean:
MfA OU is not being abandoned; it still exists and will be playable, it just won't be our focus when designing new ones
None of our existing Mega Evolutions are being "thrown out". The ideal endpoint of this revised approach is that everything we have made - and will evermake - will end up having at least one format where it is valued and is fun to use in.
Lots of our existing Mega Evolutions - particularly more niche ones - will benefit from this; relieving even just the pressure of "not having to compete with Mega Corviknight", for instance, expands options considerably
Designing formats for "past seasons" of MfA is a project we are planning on tackling in the future, but it's not our immediate priority
What's Next:
Our first season will be based on the Kalos regional dex!
This is cool thematically since it was the birth place of mega evolution (and our wonderful mod leader's mascot comes from there)
Even more importantly, this is a solid start mechanically because it's very similar to what we know, but is missing many of the current high-power installments of the last two generations, such as Z-moves and Corviknight
Next slate will be Pyroar, Clawitzer, and Gogoat! We wanted to start the season off with a classic Fire/Water/Grass core to kickstart their offensive and defensive utility, and two of the three were already part of a community favorite slate that narrowly missed winning several times now.
As a council, we're all really enthusiastic about these structural changes, and we would be happy to explain our individual points of view on why they make the mod better and on what roles we'll all be taking in the short term and the long term if anyone has questions!
Thank you guys for your patience with us, and... wish us luck! ;u;
hello it is i the primate of galactic forces today i'll help u go through the pokemon equivalent of france ok?
With a reboot of the available dex, it's important for all of us to understand what's gonna be in that new format. Which mons are gonna be allowed? Which mons are gonna be cut? And, most importantly, what's likely you need to prepare for? Because if you decided to make cool calm minder whose "definitely balanced because its hard-walled by heatran", well THINK AGAIN as the lava toad is not around this time.
Today, ill be going through the blacklist, aka everything important that is NOT going to be playable in the next season.
LITERALLY ANYTHING GEN 7-8
Lots of the biggest threats of the last generations have been, well, mons from the last generations, which you know is kinda logic. We're all at least a little aware of the power creep in pokemon, and fortunately the restrictions forced by this new season let some of the most optimized mons of the game out of, uh, yknow, the game. Let's take a look at the most important omissions.
The two most prominent bulky water-types of the last gens are now out of the picture. While I'm sure most of yall are glad the Pex got the ax, this means that we have to do some pretty heavy rewiring of how we approach wallbreakers. Things spamming fire or water moves might not have immediate answers in each and every teams, hence why (i assume) ash-gren has been banned by the council. This is gonna be especially relevant with the first slate, considering clawitzer is a mon that would traditionally have been checked by our two favorite walls. The only steel/flying pokemon remaining in the tier is skarmory, which is tenfolds less splashable than those two babies. Be careful with the coverage you give to your mons. The BUZZ is gone, which means physical threats might have an easier time around. Be careful! The curve toppers are out so that means you can calm your tits when making fast mons; 130 is probably gonna be very fine. The birb n the monkey are out of here as are literally every other terrain setters. That means lucha is back to being forced to run an awkward cc white herb or sky attack sets. Koko being out is also a massive blow to screen teams, which now can't rely on any of their three best options. The prime screen setter of ORAS, serperior, will also not be around. Looking forward to the new wacky setters we'll be seeing around. How will the M4A metagame recover from the removal of Lele, I wonder..............
PRETTY MUCH ALL LEGENDARIES
The list of viable unbanned legendary pokemon in the new Kalos dexit can be counted on a hand (there's actually 3 of them: zapdos, moltres and volcanion). Everything else is GONE. This is very massive, considering a lot of those pokemon have been shaking up pokemon metagames ever since their introductions.
The king of OU has fallen. The krazy glue of competitive will not be available this time around, and so we'll have to figure out which ground type we'll want to deal with all those pesky electric pivots, especially in a world without excadrill as well. Along with pex and fini, this is probably the most important mon you'll have to think about when creating your megas. We've taken heatran for granted for a while now, but the king of defensive utility and stallbreaking has now fallen. That opens up a lot of opprtunities for unusual sweepers, but that might also mean you have to be more careful when making potentialy overpowered set up mons. For instance, meowstick-f would probably be way too strong in such a megame. Third best bulky water is out, gee... that's starting to be a lot... TR PLAYERS, WHERE ARE YOUR GODS NOW
STARTERS
Outside of the Kanto and obviously the Kalos starters, our favorite rgb mascots have been thanos snapped.
Probably the most important omission. I theorize it would probably have been banned anyway would it not have been cut, but oh well. The best designed pokemon of history is, unfortunately just like in gen 8 ou, unavailable. :( H-Hold on... the fourth bulky water type is gone?????????? What's left... like, milotic or something?? God.... (is also not here to be the de facto best water type)
Now onto an assorted list of random pokemon that are out of here that didnt fall in the earlier categories.
The prime bulky utility LO-3-attacks-powerhouse calm-minder SR-setter M4A-W-o-wisper fairy queen is alas old news. This does open up more slots for different options. If you want hail, you'll have to rely on either a mega or abomasnow. Or maybe abomasnow-mega? :thonking: they're out too Guys, remember you can't just do OP special attackers from now on, ok? Your actions WILL have consequences. Less spore bs hurray H-HUH? MILOTIC IS OUT TOO???? IS THERE ANY WATER TYPE POKEMON IN THE KALOS DEX AT ALL???? there are no water types in kalos there are no water types in kalos there are no water types in kalos there are no water types in kalos there are no water types in kalos there are no water types in kalos there are no wat Another blanket physical wall we'll have to do without. togonekiss The pre-home ground glue will unfortunately not be here to be the walmart landorus of this mod. sure Considering Heatran is not here, THANK GOD.
Also are straight up banned so ig they count as gone too.
Ill try to make a post about the things that did actually get in later this week, although I do have a ton of exams so dont expect much, or maybe expect it for longer in the future. Anyway ye thats gonna be it for today, hoping that this helped u have a better grasp of the things to come.
EDIT: the theres no water type thing is a joke. there are still some viable water types dw
hello it is i the primate of galactic forces today i'll help u go through the pokemon equivalent of france ok?
With a reboot of the available dex, it's important for all of us to understand what's gonna be in that new format. Which mons are gonna be allowed? Which mons are gonna be cut? And, most importantly, what's likely you need to prepare for? Because if you decided to make cool calm minder whose "definitely balanced because its hard-walled by heatran", well THINK AGAIN as the lava toad is not around this time.
Today, ill be going through the blacklist, aka everything important that is NOT going to be playable in the next season.
LITERALLY ANYTHING GEN 7-8
Lots of the biggest threats of the last generations have been, well, mons from the last generations, which you know is kinda logic. We're all at least a little aware of the power creep in pokemon, and fortunately the restrictions forced by this new season let some of the most optimized mons of the game out of, uh, yknow, the game. Let's take a look at the most important omissions.
The two most prominent bulky water-types of the last gens are now out of the picture. While I'm sure most of yall are glad the Pex got the ax, this means that we have to do some pretty heavy rewiring of how we approach wallbreakers. Things spamming fire or water moves might not have immediate answers in each and every teams, hence why (i assume) ash-gren has been banned by the council. This is gonna be especially relevant with the first slate, considering clawitzer is a mon that would traditionally have been checked by our two favorite walls. The only steel/flying pokemon remaining in the tier is skarmory, which is tenfolds less splashable than those two babies. Be careful with the coverage you give to your mons. The BUZZ is gone, which means physical threats might have an easier time around. Be careful! The curve toppers are out so that means you can calm your tits when making fast mons; 130 is probably gonna be very fine. The birb n the monkey are out of here as are literally every other terrain setters. That means lucha is back to being forced to run an awkward cc white herb or sky attack sets. Koko being out is also a massive blow to screen teams, which now can't rely on any of their three best options. The prime screen setter of ORAS, serperior, will also not be around. Looking forward to the new wacky setters we'll be seeing around. How will the M4A metagame recover from the removal of Lele, I wonder..............
PRETTY MUCH ALL LEGENDARIES
The list of viable unbanned legendary pokemon in the new Kalos dexit can be counted on a hand (there's actually 3 of them: zapdos, moltres and volcanion). Everything else is GONE. This is very massive, considering a lot of those pokemon have been shaking up pokemon metagames ever since their introductions.
The king of OU has fallen. The krazy glue of competitive will not be available this time around, and so we'll have to figure out which ground type we'll want to deal with all those pesky electric pivots, especially in a world without excadrill as well. Along with pex and fini, this is probably the most important mon you'll have to think about when creating your megas. We've taken heatran for granted for a while now, but the king of defensive utility and stallbreaking has now fallen. That opens up a lot of opprtunities for unusual sweepers, but that might also mean you have to be more careful when making potentialy overpowered set up mons. For instance, meowstick-f would probably be way too strong in such a megame. Third best bulky water is out, gee... that's starting to be a lot... TR PLAYERS, WHERE ARE YOUR GODS NOW
STARTERS
Outside of the Kanto and obviously the Kalos starters, our favorite rgb mascots have been thanos snapped.
Probably the most important omission. I theorize it would probably have been banned anyway would it not have been cut, but oh well. The best designed pokemon of history is, unfortunately just like in gen 8 ou, unavailable. :( H-Hold on... the fourth bulky water type is gone?????????? What's left... like, milotic or something?? God.... (is also not here to be the de facto best water type)
Now onto an assorted list of random pokemon that are out of here that didnt fall in the earlier categories.
The prime bulky utility LO-3-attacks-powerhouse calm-minder SR-setter M4A-W-o-wisper fairy queen is alas old news. This does open up more slots for different options. If you want hail, you'll have to rely on either a mega or abomasnow. Or maybe abomasnow-mega? :thonking: they're out too Guys, remember you can't just do OP special attackers from now on, ok? Your actions WILL have consequences. Less spore bs hurray H-HUH? MILOTIC IS OUT TOO???? IS THERE ANY WATER TYPE POKEMON IN THE KALOS DEX AT ALL???? there are no water types in kalos there are no water types in kalos there are no water types in kalos there are no water types in kalos there are no water types in kalos there are no water types in kalos there are no wat Another blanket physical wall we'll have to do without. togonekiss The pre-home ground glue will unfortunately not be here to be the walmart landorus of this mod. sure Considering Heatran is not here, THANK GOD.
Also are straight up banned so ig they count as gone too.
Ill try to make a post about the things that did actually get in later this week, although I do have a ton of exams so dont expect much, or maybe expect it for longer in the future. Anyway ye thats gonna be it for today, hoping that this helped u have a better grasp of the things to come.
I've decided to compile our mon options separated by type. It's quite a big list so I'm going to keep it under a Hide tag, but it should be very useful for us to better visualise which mons we are dealing with right here
Alright new season viability list on shitty pc go: Very decent Grass type that checks a lot of physical attackers in the tier as well as some pesky water types, as well as having spikes support. Competes with ferrothorn but has the advantage of not being trapped by zone. Chungus hits hard, quick attack revenge kills i guess. Screens are dead but belly drum espeed. Among the fastest mons in the tier and boots wings might be a thing? Otherwise hard outclassed by moltres. Bad, but quiver dance and accuarate sleep move can be hella annoying. See long rat, but with simple and swords dance. Belly drum, Band, you know how strong this thing is already, better due to lack of bulky waters. One of the few fairies around. It has webs, has been used in ORAS tournaments and currently fastest web setter somehow. DD Sweeper, limited water types, you know the drill. Nuclear stabs, especially on rain. Speed boost go brr Mixed Set up Sweeper, Steel not scared of zone. One of the few fairy types in the format, may be useful to use against certain team structures. Decent movepool and attack? Scrapping the barrel here. Possibly the best fairy type in the tier, but even then it is not that impressive. Spikes lead Quintessential sun sweeper, sun is not as good as rain in any way but still better than hail or sand lol. See Venu but wallbreaker Spinner, bulky water. mostly outclassed by starmie. Fastest Shell smasher. Scrappy Close Combat alongside good offensive typing in a meta lacking meaningful fairy types. Pangoro typing but more defensively inclined. Decently fast nasty plot late game cleaner. Grass type not trapped by zone, strength sap water answer? Fastest mon in the tier without Scarf, Heavy boots with u-turn might be intresting pivot. Does typical shed stuff. Worse Klefki, unless using both on the same team like a maniac Aegislash junior, can be useful with eviolite i guess. See Sharpedo Lead, albeit not a good one Fun mon, Water immunity + decent stabs make it fun to use. Worse Florges, but albeit with an actually useful ability. Goofy unburden mon or Sticky web setter. Curselax could be decently viable here. Remove Steels and click Boom. Very fast mon, typing seems kinda nice as well. DD or Scale shot sweeper, although maybe outclassed by chomp. Incredible pivot and very good fighting type, awesome scarfer. Facade mon, hits decently hard and is fast enough. Outclassed by chomp but tankmence could be nice. Enables rain and therefore a lot of stupid shit. Fast mon, either uses facade or Boomburst Shell Smash Go Brr See barb Has spin to pretend its not just fake toxapex Doesn't get roost but assault vest sets could still be neat Specs has some funny calcs i guess Best spinner in the tier by far See Barb, also sets spikes and spins Rain One of some few good Ground Types and genuinely good revenge killer Decent on rain and sun i guess Best Bulky Ground, sand has no abusers tho Ground Competition is slightly less here, but still tough Hits very hard with guts Strongest earthquake by far but otherwise hella outclassed One of the few fairy types in the tier. Veil Setter Decent Stealth rock lead The defensive backbone of the entire tier, watch out for zone Fairy type with intimidate, otherwise hella outclassed Is finally the fastest electric type again Screener and magic bounce Okay Tankmon Very good fairy, can finally live the ou dream Speed boost or Tinted Lens, Pick your Poison No tapu/rilla to auto enable it is sad until you remember this thing can still sky attack Funny Magic Guard Mon, run psycho shift flame orb if real Band is actually impressively hard hitting Intimidate is a meme on meme tank sets, just click reckless stabs Worse nidoking with slightly more bulk, would love to have recovery again Click moves, kill things Goes on Stored Power Shenanigans and other annoying reun stuff Prankster annoying sets, otherwise bad Decent speed tier and movepool but nido is usually better Strongest Guts Wallbreaker The two are massively useful with the lack of bulky waters, slowking is generally better but bro doesn't insta lose to weavile. Also Futureport Also likes the lack of bulky waters See Bara Both volt absorb and water absorb, both still make it ultra niche See Mantine, but better thanks to regen Freeze dry makes it a meme wall that may actually work here due to the metagame Excellent defogger, rain abuser and overall electric type Can in theory handle its handful of physical attackers Mostly worst garchomp, but ddance and levitate may give it a niche Set up sweeper, stealth rocks, tankchomp, you name it Realistically speaking the only truly wortk sticky web user and offensive lead. Decent typing Unaware mon, can probably wall some stuff Fastest spiker, final gambit lead Weaker Gengar but with levitate Nasty plot mon, scares fairies away and can clean decently Swift swimmer, line for that role is inmense but it does have a good stab against ferro so Anti-Defogger and Knock off spammer Singlehandledly carries hyper offense on its back. I hate this fucking thing so much i wish i could rip its keys and Bulky Grass type, both waters and fairies hate this thing Also on the line of swift swimmers Slow, but has very good breaking power in a meta with worse bulky waters and no heatran Washtom is absolutely insane, Heatom is underrated, Mowtom has potential, freezetom is still shit and fantom doesn't exist Kills the steels that hold the meta together to enable a lot of stupid shit Sets rocks and has really good stab combination, especially in this meta Can wall some stuff but is allergic to special attacker This is the only hail rusher, even then i implore you not to use it Let the ice cream do ice cream things Obama, veil 2 weaviles are better than 1 How the hell was this thing not quickbanned Bulky fighting type, would really like some recovery but can hit really hard Pelipper, but for a worse playstyle This is quite literally the only sand rusher, also spikes and spin. Sand, really strong pursuit Fucks you up if the game decides to do so. See cuno, but this thing has spin and defog which is funny Enjoys the merits of a corv and steela free meta, sets hazards and walls stuff Decently fast pivot Does gliscor things, nothing new. Like hera, but worse. Still hits surprisingly hard Fast, not really a good mon to use but it has double wing beat and a dream. Possibly the most reliable weavile check, gets caught by zone tho. Good steel outside of that as well Plan b when shit goes wrong Clicks draco in a meta with lame fairy types, nasty plot, roost and has tons of good sets. Ddance, can also run a decent defogger set. I mean, it do be having 150 spa, just pretend dark types and pursuit are not a thing Stupid under Rain. Stupid under Sun. Stupid strong stab on every team its on.
Hi, everyone! There are a couple of announcements to make today!
Changes to the competitive council!
First of all, we would like to welcome Sticky Fingaaa to the competitive council!!
Sticky is recognized as one of the best players of M4A OU, and they've been both making their presence known and helping the competitive council for a long time already - they've long been involved in plenty of roundtable discussions alongside competitive council members behind the scenes, helped to run tours and been very active at participating in suspect tests and contributing to tiering action... not to mention that they were the respected leader of the Driftveil Diggersbys(the Ziggurat Gang?), the winners of M4Auction! They also make us all smile with their incredible talent for making cursed artwork of the absolute highest caliber, often featuring the likenesses of Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson and Garfield
Sticky has already definitely been a leading presence in our community before this, so this is really just making it official and properly recognizing their hard work - we are all looking forward to their continued involvement : D
The other competitive council update is that, going forward, Mossy Sandwich, Paulluxx, IsoCon and Sticky are specifically taking charge of managing M4A OU as a tour format!
Like we previously announced, our future focus as a mod will be on our smaller-scale seasons, but we didn't want to leave M4A OU behind completely, and it has a great many dedicated players who would be sad to see it lose focus.
In the same way some competitive council members have already done for PMPL, these four will be undertaking tiering action by tourbanning(not fully removing or rebalancing) specific Pokémon and Mega Evolutions that are unhealthy for M4A OU on a competitive level. Their tiering actions will mean that everyone can have an agreed-upon ruleset to enjoy M4A OU in a serious, competitive environment, without detracting from the more casual experience of people who still just want a format where every Mega is playable.
Going forward, the teambuilder will have a dedicated section for Megas that are just tourbanned so they can be easily distinguished (without becoming unusable for people who aren't participating in tournaments).
Until this is properly implemented, please check #announcements on the Discord server for any confirmed updates as they come!
A casual tour coming up!
Second, we're trying to get a more complete understanding of the Kalos dex format as it exists without any Megas.
With that in mind, we're going to be holding a casual Kalos dex tour or two this week, and we would like to encourage everyone who's interested to participate!
(I've seen people express theoretical worries about some specific Pokémon from early tests, like Weavile and Magnezone, so a tour like this is also a good chance to highlight concerns like these and give us a chance to see what we'd be better off without! Let us know if there's anything else in particular you want us to keep an eye on O:)
To start us out, inkbug will be running a tour on Dragon Heaven at 20:00 GMT on Monday, May 30th (24 hours from this post)!
Keep an eye on the Discord, though, because we might announce more of them throughout the week!
Some elaboration and clarifications on the new season!
Our last announcement was pretty overwhelming, so a few things got lost in translation or simply left out by my own error!
I'll be taking this opportunity to clear up a few common questions, misunderstandings and oversights before we begin the new season:
- The format still uses Natdex mechanics and movepools!
Although we are using Kalos as the basis for our Pokédex, the mechanics we're using are the most modern ones possible, just like we have in M4A OU!
That means mechanics that have changed in Generation VII and Generation VIII (like the status conditions that have been nerfed, the way turn order is decided, and certain Abilities like Intimidate and Prankster) still work like they do in the current Gen, not like they do in Gen VI!
Current-Gen items like Blunder Policy and Throat Spray are also available, but Z-Crystals are banned.
- The Pokémon that are legal for use are the ones in the regional Pokédex of Kalos!
This isn't a format with Pokémon 001 through 721, like ORAS OU - it's the 457 Pokémon native to the Kalos region, with a few of them banned!
Our starting banlist includes Pokémon that are currently Uber () and certain quickbans of Pokémon we expect to be too strong (), which we may still retest later.
We haven't officially banned these yet, but some other Pokémon on our watchlist based on early feedback include Weavile and Magnezone. What else has you worried? Please let us know if you have any concerns!
- When we start out, the only Mega Evolutions in the format will be the ones from THIS slate!
No canon Mega Evolutions are around - not even the ones from X and Y! - and none of our own past Mega Evolutions will be here right away, even ones like Meowstic that are in the Kalos dex. At a later point in the season, we will ask for your feedback on the selection of Mega Evolutions you'd most like to see brought back (probably through a "comeback slate" of sorts!), but for now, we're starting totally fresh!
- Movepool additions from M4A are being rolled back for the new season!
A Pokémon will only have its M4A movepool additions if its Mega exists. For example, Delphox is in the Kalos dex, but it won't have Recover for now. It will get Recover back if we introduce Mega Delphox to the format in the future!
For now, every Pokémon will use the movepool it has in vanilla Natdex.
(Movepool additions from old seasons are obviously still used in M4A OU, the format where every Mega Evolution we've made is allowed!)
I hope that helps!!! I'm sorry for dumping so much information at once OTL
Let me know if you have any more questions, though!
Requesting your input on movepool changes!
In the next post, everyone's friend BlueRay will be sharing an update on some movepool revisions that we discussed publicly some time ago! Most of these are not exactly balance changes, so please don't look at them as nerfs! For the most part, we've been trying to go back and clean up the optics of our past movepool changes, with a particular emphasis on moves that don't make sense, moves that aren't useful to the Megas anyway, or moves that add unwanted versatility to Megas that are already very good and demonstrably don't need them.
This also means minimizing the number of wacky signature moves, like Thunderous Kick on Leavanny, wherever they can afford to be replaced - but we want to clarify that this is specifically not happening in cases where they are competitively significant or where removing them would have a major impact on viability! We were very cautious about this, and you can read our full thoughts in the #balance-changes channel on Discord if any of the proposed changes concern you at a glance.
This is sort of a sequel to "the great Speed tier reevaluation" we did once - the great movepool reevaluation! - and like that update, we will be polling most of these changes together, not individually. Instead of asking you to approve changes one by one, you're invited to say so in the poll if there are any specific changes you don't like or would prefer to see discussed more before we go through with them!
The goal of this process is essentially to minimize changes that we find we didn't actually need to make, not to rebalance the format substantially so please keep that context in mind when reviewing the changes!
Also, know that we have gotten the support of those who submitted all of these Pokémon(with the exceptions of just two people who are no longer active, but we will be happy to revert the changes if they return and inform us they disagree with the moves we removed). We wouldn't go against a submitter's wishes to make minor optics fixes like this - these are all choices the creators of these Pokémon agreed with, too, so please look over them with an open mind!
This update also goes hand in hand with our new season!
We're planning to set better standards for movepool changes going forward - more on that a bit later! - and this is our chance to go back and impose those standards in cases where we can afford to, while being more lenient on edge cases that can't function without their movepool additions even if those might not have been allowed if they were made today including some of mine I'm sorry ;-; I've learned a lot since we started out, but some of my own subs from earlier slates were pretty messy in this sense asdjfhj.
BlueRay has the floor after this! Thank you so much for all of your help!!!
Finally, the moment you've been waiting for (for an entire extra week sorry):
Submissions for the new season's Slate 1 - Gogoat, Pyroar and Clawitzer - are now open!
- Like previously stated, it is preferred that you make only one Mega Pyroar, not one for each gender.
- Lastly, always remember: when you're doing stats for a Pokémon with a high base HP, small increases to bulk often count for more than you'd expect! Just keep an eye on this and make sure you don't go overboard without realizing.
- Going forward, we are hoping to avoid making more movepool additions than necessary!
Have in mind that all moves you add should be specific to your sub, not something you believe the Pokémon should have in general or meant as a buff to its non-Mega form. The council may ask for the removal of any move that is deemed to impact the non-Mega form more than it does the Mega Evolution or to alter the non-Mega form's identity too substantially, even if the Pokémon you're working with is considered unviable right now. It is not our job to "finish" movepools or buff non-Mega Pokémon into viability - add only what is necessary for your own Mega to function, and remember that you don't have to add moves at all if you don't think any are necessary to that end!
- Now that we are essentially starting fresh with movepool additions, we will also keep a particularly close eye on the realism of move additions.
If a move is especially limited in distribution in the main series (like if it's exclusive to Legendary and Mythical Pokémon right now), and you don't believe the Pokémon you're making would ever be given access to it in an official game, please respect that and work around that limitation. Also be aware that whether something was allowed in a previous season does not influence whether it will be allowed in this one!
You can expect submissions to be open for about 120 hours from now (meaning they will close 20:00 GMT on June 3rd), and we will do our best to provide feedback multiple times throughout the slate!
If we have not finished giving feedback in time to close the slate on 20:00 on June 3rd, please be patient with us to wrap things up, but refrain from making any entirely new submissions after that time; we most likely just need more time to finish evaluating the subs we already have!
During one of our discussions about the direction of this mod, we noticed many of our custom Mega Pokémon have moves that have no competitive relevance, are more of value to a base form or don't fit very well flavour wise. So, in order to be more consistent with this mod's design philosophy, we decided to take a closer look at the move additions and rectify this. Below, you can find a list of what this approach entails, based on comments by Hematite.
Move additions should always be made with the respective Mega Pokémon in mind rather than its base form; after all, it is not our job as a mod to fix the base form or its pre evolution or make them more viable. For example, GF added several Pulse moves to Blastoise so that its Mega Form could actually take good advantage of its ability Mega Launcher.
Of course, we will always try to make sure that, even if a move is focused more on the respective Mega Pokémon, it will not make its base form too overbearing. In theory, Mega Nidoking would appreciate Gunk Shot to increase its wallbreaking potential. However, adding this move would decrease the number of checks to its base form, like Slowking or Blissey. Therefore, we cannot add Gunk Shot to Nidoking.
So, whenever you want to add a move to a Mega Pokémon, always consider its relevance to this form and provide good reasons. This is especially true for the distribution of legendary moves or signature moves, which we want to limit more, unless there's good reason to allow them.
Here, you can see which Pokémon has its movepool changed and why we deem it necessary.
Mega Rillaboom
Removed Moves: Toxic Reason: With Toxic, Rillaboom is theoretically able to wear down would-be checks like Moltres, Zapdos, Volcarona, and Tornadus even more, thereby making them less reliable at handling it despite its Grass type. Moreover, the move itself doesn't add anything new and important to the Mega form.
Additionally, Mega Rillaboom is currently banned from M4A OU, and Toxic does not help it in M4A VGC where it thrives. This means the move is only really adding anything to non-Mega Rillaboom, which is against the design philosophy of the mod.
Mega Clefable
Removed Moves: Shadow Sneak Reason: This move doesn't contribute anything meaningful to its Mega form.
Mega Parasect
Removed Moves: Taunt, Jungle Healing Reason: Already, Mega Parasect is a terrifying Pokémon that can apply huge pressure with a combination of Spore and STAB moves supported by Tinted Lens. Taunt and Jungle Healing enable Mega Parasect even more by giving it unneeded versatility, making it easier to get around checks such as Toxapex.
Mega Golduck
Removed Moves: Shadow Ball Reason: Mega Golduck has barely any reason (if at all) to run Shadow Ball since other coverage moves like Focus Blast are far more useful. For instance, Focus Blast threatens Ferrothorn, which would otherwise wall its Water and Psychic moves for days.
Mega Victreebel
Removed Moves: Snap Trap Reason: In general, Infestation (which Victreebel has by default) is the superior move, since it doesn't make contact, has more PP (32 vs 24) and gets around the ability Sap Sipper.
Mega Dragonite
Removed Moves: Play Rough Reason: There's little reason to run Play Rough when it's not STAB and when the ability Pressure encourages a defensive or utility set, which would run other moves, like Ice Beam, Earthquake or Dual Wingbeat.
Mega Flygon
Removed Moves: Extreme Speed, Flash Cannon, Iron Head Reason: Mega Flygon's best and most common set is the special one, with Roost and U-Turn to round it off. Physical or mixed sets have more counterplay (like Corviknight and Landorus-T) and lose out on its more consistent and enabling utility options. It's an offensive support Pokémon; therefore, it wants to enable Desert Gales teams to the best of its abilities.
With Mega Flygon already being a very powerful Pokémon, Extreme Speed is an unnecessary and less predictable element. As for its Steel moves, there is no reason to run them when a 1.2 strong Ground type Boomburst outdamages them against Fairy Pokémon in general.
Mega Walrein
Removed Moves: Dark Pulse Reason: This move has no competitive relevance for it since it prefers running mostly STAB moves and that already covers pretty much everything it wants to.
Mega Torterra
Removed Moves: Meteor Beam Reason: This move makes Mega Torterra very vulnerable, since it can't do anything in the turn it needs to charge up and can't hold a Power Herb. With an already-mediocre SpA stat, Mega Torterra doesn't have any good competitive reason to run the Rock move.
Mega Staraptor
Removed Moves: Role Play Reason: It has no competitive value since it's a very situational and therefore unreliable move. Staraptor has other more appealing moves it wants to run, like U-turn, Super Fang or Close Combat, to name a few.
Mega Mismagius
Removed Moves: Poison Fang Reason: Mega Mismagius strongly prefers running special Poison moves due to its higher damage output on the special side, and Poison Fang is less consistent than Toxic on a special set.
Mega Drapion
Removed Moves: Shore Up Added Moves: Recover Reason: This is purely a flavor-driven change: Drapion loses Shore Up but will gain Recover instead. We decided that that move makes more sense on a scorpion, which fits its regenerative powers.
Mega Lickilicky
Removed Moves: Draining Kiss Reason: As a mostly defensive and utility Pokémon without Calm Mind, Mega Lickilicky is unlikely to run Draining Kiss, especially when Wish already lets it heal itself and support the team. Moreover, there are other moves it would prefer running to avoid being too passive, such as Earthquake, Ice Beam or Flamethrower to handle Steel and Ground Pokémon, for instance.
Mega Samurott
Removed Moves: Flip Turn Reason: Mega Samurott usually prefers to stay relatively long in the battle to accumulate boosts, which has synergy with its Ability. It is commonly run with Razor Shell, Sacred Swords / Substitute, Swords Dance, and Slack Off, leaving almost no room for any other move.
Mega Gigalith
Removed Moves: Skull Bash Reason: While this move has great synergy with Mega Gigalith's ability (after all, the charge turn is skipped when Sun is active), this Pokémon usually prefers running Meteor Beam, Trick Room, Earth Power, and Protect in VGC to be as efficient as possible: Rock + Ground is an extremely potent combo that is hard to resist while Trick Room allows Mega Gigalith to be less reliant on a partner and support the team. Protect is commonly run in VGC to scout the opposing team. As such, Mega Gigalith does not have room to run Skull Bash and the move does not have competitive implications.
Mega Aurorus
Removed Moves: Rapid Spin Reason: Mega Aurorus rarely runs Rapid Spin, and it's not even an efficient user of this move when it itself takes damage from Stealth Rock before it sets up a new weather condition to nullify Rock damage for 5 turns.
Rapid Spin was originally added when Diamond Dust had a very different effect, which would have made Mega Aurorus an effective spinner, but because the Ability was changed, it now has better synergy with non-Mega Aurorus (which can hold Heavy-Duty Boots and has Refrigerate). This also does not fit with the design philosophy of the mod, as it changes non-Mega Aurorus substantially without benefiting the Mega form.
Mega Araquanid
Removed Moves: Hypnosis, Pain Split, Purify Reason: Mega Araquanid rarely finds itself running any of these moves. Rest is usually preferred in Singles to not be annoyed by status. Hypnosis has low accuracy, making it therefore an unreliable choice. Moreover, it doesn't add anything meaningful to Mega Araquanid's design over base's one. As for Purify, it is an extremely situational move since it relies on spreading status before you can make use of this move. With Misty Terrain being common and Araquanid having a Stealth Rock weakness, there is simply too much burden on this Pokémon.
Mega Leavanny
Removed Moves: Thunderous Kick Added Moves: Low Kick Reason: Thunderous Kick is not important to Mega Leavanny's competitive design and is limited to Galarian Zapdos, letting it draw a comparison to its lightning feature that its other form (Kanto Zapdos) is known for. Mega Leavanny usually prefers running a special set to avoid being compared to the superior Kartana (non Mega, great defensive type, Stealth Rock resistance, high Atk stat, good movepool, etc.) and being affected by Rocky Helmet. However, if someone still wants to run a mixed set, Low Kick is now an option, hitting Heatran and Ferrothorn for more damage than Thunderous Kick does.
Mega Sawsbuck (Spring)
Removed Moves: Petal Blizzard, Moonblast Added Moves: High Horsepower (since the Winter form already has it and the move does not need to be form-specific) Reason: Horn Leech, although it's slightly weaker, is the preferred Grass move on any Sawsbuck form due to healing. Swords Dance + Horn Leech is already enough to scare any Pokémon weak to Grass. Since Mega Sawsbuck-Spring is a physical attacker, there's no need for Moonblast.
Mega Sawsbuck (Summer)
Removed Moves: Flame Burst, Overheat, Flamethrower, Leaf Storm Added Moves: Heat Wave, High Horsepower (since the Winter form already has it and the move does not need to be form-specific) Reason: Flame Burst is a weak move without competitive applications. Overheat and Flamethrower, although they suit Mega Sawsbuck, are difficult to justify on non-Mega Sawsbuck. Heat Wave, on the other hand, could be explained by air manipulation and has been on other Grass-type Pokémon like Shiftry, and it allows Mega Sawsbuck-Summer to be of use in VGC as well as it's a spread move. Leaf Storm is being removed because, by virtue of being a Grass move, it was decided that there was no reason to give it to only one form of Sawsbuck.
Mega Sawsbuck (Autumn)
Removed Moves: Strength Sap, Petal Blizzard, Trick or Treat Added Moves: High Horsepower (since the Winter form already has it and the move does not need to be form-specific) Reason: Since Mega Sawsbuck-Autumn favours Substitute and Swords Dance, there's not much room for Strength Sap. Poltergeist is a necessary STAB move, while Horn Leech allows it to hit Normal and Dark Pokémon and also provides healing. Petal Blizzard is unneeded for the same reason as on Spring form: Horn Leech is the preferred move. Trick-or-Treat has no use on Mega Sawsbuck, as its ability already gives the same effect to every Grass-type move.
Mega Sawsbuck (Winter)
Removed Moves: Icicle Crash Reason: Triple Axel is the preferred move due to its higher damage output, which is appreciated since this form is meant to be a wallbreaker.
Mega Garbodor
Removed Moves: Knock Off Reason: Knock Off's distribution is much more limited in gen 8, and with its removal from the movepool, Garbodor could resort to Corrosive Gas, a rarely seen move since Knock Off overshadows it due to being able to do damage.
Mega Gourgeist
Removed Moves: Encore, Strength Sap Reason: Encore has never been used since there are other moves all of the Gourgeist forms want to use, such as healing, STAB, Parting Shot, and Will-o-Wisp for instance. Small-Size Gourgeist, which has Prankster, has shown itself to be an extremely powerful Mega Pokémon, and removing Strength Sap would allow for more counterplay from physical attackers; Synthesis still exists as a weaker healing option.
Mega Inteleon
Removed Moves: Taunt Reason: Mega Inteleon commonly runs Waterfall/Liquidation, Swords Dance, U-Turn, and Icicle Spear to be as efficient as possible offensively. Moreover, if someone does want to forego a move, it already has Encore to surprise opponents and make their set-up Pokémon useless since they are locked into a status move.
Mega Meowstic (female)
Removed Moves: Dazzling Gleam Reason: Meowstic-F already has Moonblast, so it's never going to use Dazzling Gleam in Singles. While Dazzling Gleam does have a use in VGC since it's a spread move, removing this move would make Meowstic-F more different from Mega Gardevoir, which relies heavily on a Fairy spread move.
Mega Goodra
Removed Moves: Giga Drain, Drain Punch Reason: Since Goodra now has Moonlight, there's barely any reason to run Giga Drain or Drain Punch.
Mega Trevenant
Removed Moves: Floral Healing, Synthesis Reason: Trevenant is never going to use Floral Healing in Singles. Moreover, this move is associated with flowers, which is not something Trevenant is known for. Since Mega Trevenant is an offensive Pokémon and already has Horn Leech, there's little reason to run Synthesis. To my knowledge, no one has ever run Synthesis on it so far.
Mega Noivern
Removed Moves: Encore Reason: Mega Noivern is very limited in its movepool, usually relying on Psychic, Flamethrower, U-Turn, and Roost for general use to cover common Pokémon, like Toxapex and Corviknight. If Mega Noivern were a tad bit faster, perhaps, it might have some value to lock Volcarona and other Pokémon into moves like Quiver Dance or Dragon Dance.
Mega Incineroar
Removed Moves: Punishment, Rapid Spin Reason: Rapid Spin could just be replaced by Flame Charge for the speed boost and is more of use to base form than to the Mega form. Punishment is already overshadowed by the much more efficient and consistent Swords Dance + Darkest Lariat combo.
Mega Toucannon
Removed Moves: Nasty Plot Reason: Mega Toucannon has proven to be a formidable wallbreaker during the tournament and is hard to check defensively. Removing Nasty Plot would allow for more counterplay. What's more, this action would emphasize the value of Apple Acid and encourage sets with Roost or even Substitute.
Mega Gumshoos
Removed Moves: Body Slam Reason: M4A is based on NatDex. Therefore, moves like Return and Frustration exist and are a more appealing option due to their higher damage output, which is relevant because Mega Gumshoos is intended to be a wallbreaker. The original submitter of Mega Gumshoos added Body Slam only because they believed it had lost Return.
Mega Vikavolt
Removed Moves: Leaf Blade, Dark Pulse Reason: Mega Vikavolt has a low Atk stat, and it doesn't have much reason to run Leaf Blade when it can run Bug Buzz, Energy Ball or Hidden Power Ice. Dark Pulse has no use in Singles, only hitting the very niche Lightning Rod Alolan Marowak.
Mega Wishiwashi
Removed Moves: Life Dew Reason: Wish is a better healing option that synergizes with Mega Wishiwashi's other moves, and Mega Wishiwashi isn't going to be useful in VGC where Life Dew would be useful, as games are much faster and it is much more difficult to take the time for SOS to activate.
Mega Krookodile
Removed Moves: Topsy-Turvy Reason: This move never sees plays as Mega Krookodile prefers running other status moves, which are more useful in general, like Hone Claws or Taunt.
Mega Tsareena
Removed Moves: First Impression Other Change: Mega Tsareena's Ability, Queen's Gambit, will now increase the priority of affected moves by +3 instead of +1 Reason: The reason why First Impression was added was to make sure Mega Tsareena could outspeed Extreme Speed in combination with its ability. However, Extreme Speed is rarely run, and with its limited distribution, Mega Tsareena would rather run other moves to be more useful in general, such as U-Turn or Rapid Spin.
To make the ability more rewarding (since it's rarely triggered in Singles and Mega Tsareena is already slower than common priority users like Weavile or Lycanroc), we believe allowing the ability to grant +3 priority rather than +1 would be more efficient than adding just a single move that can reach +3 priority.
Mega Dhelmise
Removed Moves: Superpower Reason: Mega Dhelmise is already a very strong Pokémon (rank S in both Singles and VGC), so it should not have access to this move, which makes it more versatile and removes potential counterplay like Greninja and Hydreigon.
Mega Thievul
Removed Moves: Focus Blast, Aura Sphere, Hidden Power, Moonlight Reason: Mega Thievul is already very sufficient with Knock Off, Nasty Plot, Spirit Break, and Sucker Punch and has no reason to run any other move.
Mega Boltund
Removed Moves: Pursuit Reason: It never makes use of Pursuit since STAB moves + Hidden Power or Bulk Up or coverage already take a lot of slots.
Mega Toxtricity (both)
Removed Moves: Return, Frustration, Gear Up Reason: Toxtricity is never going to run these offensive Normal moves since it's a special attacker able to fall back on Boomburst if that should be necessary. Strategies around Plus / Minus are not viable in VGC. This is further made worse by the fact that Toxtricity would stack another Ground weakness.
Mega Obstagoon
Removed Moves: Hidden Power Reason: It's primarily a physical attacker and can always run Ice Beam to hit Landorus-T if that would be really necessary.
Mega Falinks
Removed Moves: Flame Burst Reason: This move really only hits Aegislash, which is rarely seen.
Mega Dragapult
Removed Moves: Ice Beam Reason: This move doesn't add anything meaningful to Mega Dragapult's design concept, especially when Hydro Pump already exists to hit Ground Pokémon.
Below, you can find a link to a poll on "Movepool Changes". You need to sign up with your account to participate. Don't worry, your email won't be displayed! In the poll, you can answer with "yes" or "no". Moreover, you can add your comment on our movepool changes. If there's nothing you want to add, just write "no".
Link: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1...RxeFToGcB-mtTojGw/viewform?vc=0&c=0&w=1&flr=0
Let's see what Bulbapedia has to say about Gogoat's origins.
Bulbapedia said:
Gogoat is based on a goat, possibly a bharal, dwarf bharal, bilberry, or ibex due to its horns, though they also resemble the horns of various gazelles and antelopes. It is also based on a motorcycle, as it can be ridden and has beach bar-like horns. The grass that grows upon it may originate from Pan or Faunus, gods of nature who are half-goat, half-human. The grass could also be a reference to the traditional yule goat figures in northern Europe made of hay.
The Yule Goat, huh? Don't really see it myself, but I can work with this.
Mega Gogoat
Type: Grass Ability: Flash Fire Stats:
HP: 123
Att: 120 (+20)
Def: 92 (+30)
SpA: 107 (+10)
SpD: 121 (+40)
Spe: 68
Mega Gogoat takes the motorcycle aesthetic even further, with flammable tufts of grass coming out its backside that resemble big cool exhaust pipes. Being (apparently) based on an extremely flammable goat statue that gets illegally burned down nearly every Christmas only to be rebuilt next year, as well as the goats of Thor that got killed and eaten (presumably after being cooked) every night only to be revived the next day, Mega Gogoat doesn't mind getting hit with fire attacks. Instead, they harmlessly ignite its rear tufts and make it look even cooler.
In terms of actual gameplay, Mega Gogoat is extremely bulky and one of its key weaknesses has been replaced with an immunity, befitting its unkillable origins. Milk Drink and Leech Seed allow it to stay around for a very long time, and Bulk Up synergizes perfectly with its respectable physical bulk and amazing special bulk.
Regenerator was another option, which aligns much more closely with the Yule Goat's theme of death and rebirth, but it doesn't play into the significantly-more-obvious bike motif like Flash Fire does.
Mega Clawitzer
Type: Water Ability: Technician Stats:
HP: 71
Att: 113 (+40)
Def: 88
SpA: 160 (+40)
SpD: 89
Spe: 79 (+20)
One move caught my eye when going through Clawitzer's movepool, and that move was Flip Turn. Originally I was going to go with Adaptability and give it more of a focus on physical attacks, since I thought running all three of Crabhammer, Aqua Jet, and Flip Turn on the same set would be interesting, but I decided against it for being too similar to Crawdaunt. With Technician and a sizable boost to both offenses, Mega Clawitzer can hit hard with its signature Water Pulse while still dealing respectable damage with uninvested Flip Turn. It also gets a boost to Hidden Power, Aqua Jet, Icy Wind, and Smack Down (probably won't run Smack Down but the option's open to it).
Mega Pyroar
Type: Fire / Normal Ability: Adaptability Stats:
HP: 86
Att: 83 (+15)
Def: 118 (+30)
SpA: 149 (+40)
SpD: 76 (+10)
Spe: 111 (+5)
Pyroar's movepool is unspeakably plain, so for a while I was just gonna not make a mega for it. However, after a second (third, fourth, fifth...) look, I realized it had a glimmer of potential in its typing. Fire / Normal is a STAB combination unique to Pyroar, and it's actually a pretty decent combo. Normal is good at being spammed for neutral damage, but is stopped by Steel-types, which are weak to Fire. Both STABs are resisted by Rock-types, but Rock is a pretty bad defensive type so it's fine (at one point I considered Drought so that Rocks could be hit with Solar Beam, but I felt that the 50% boost to Fire moves took too much focus away from the Normal typing). Adaptability is usually as boring as Pyroar's movepool, but when literally the only interesting thing about a Pokemon is its STAB combo I feel like it's the best choice.
I find it kinda funny how I considered Adaptability for another mega and discarded the idea, only to use it for another mega.
Ability: ErraticImpulse
Raises user's Speed by 2 every time its move misses due to lower accuracy (aka, a more consistent Blunder Policy effect).
Type: Water
New Stats:
HP: 71
Attack: 73 Defense: 88 → 103(+15) Special Attack: 120 → 165(+45) Special Defense: 89 → 109(+20) Speed: 59 → 79(+20)
BST: 500 → 600 (+100)
New moves:
Blizzard, Zap Cannon, Electro Ball
Description: 1) Concept
According to the Pokédex, Clawitzer can move very fast if it uses the back of its claw to propel itself. Now, if you looked at its base speed stat, it is rather underwhelming. This is where its new ability comes to play; in fact, Erratic Impulse underlines Clawitzer's shooting theme as it has to rely on its special claws to launch powerful attacks. Moreover, the side effect of the ability alludes to Clawitzer's high speed from the Pokédex! This Pokémon is only fast when it uses its claw. So, it makes sense for Mega Clawitzer to only get faster if it relies on its body.
What's more, just like in a shooting contest, you don't know when someone will pull the trigger and what tricks they might pull off. As a Pokémon that focuses on hitting a target, Mega Clawitzer could intentionally miss with its move to lure the opponent into a false sense of security, surprising them with a super quick shot afterwards when they are not on guard anymore.
2) Competitive This Pokémon is encouraged to run inaccurate moves to potentially boost its speed, thereby giving it another shot at hitting the target.
Generation 8 introduces many new items, one of which is Blunder Policy. On paper, the chance to double your speed if the user misses with its move looks very appealing. After all, the item supports Pokémon whose speed are rather slow or mediocre. Moreover, it promotes inaccurate moves and the ability Hustle. However, in practice, Blunder Policy rarely sees play in competitive because it requires specific situations to work and can only activate once; in fact, in order to get the most out of this item, the Pokémon of your choice generally needs to be used in the lategame. If it enters the battlefield too early, odds are your opponent has enough healthy Pokémon able to check it, forcing it to switch out and making its item useless as it can only be activated once.
Now, even in the lategame, the item may not work in your favour at all since it's basically a coin flip whether you will get the desired speed boost. Therefore, there's an inconsistent element to Blunder Policy that makes it an unappealing choice for players who value consistency a lot.
Nonetheless, even inconsistency can be managed to some extent. One of the best examples would be Tornadus-Therian. After all, some of its strongest moves, like Hurricane and Focus Blast, have relatively low accuracy. So, there's a good chance for Tornadus-Therian to miss a move, which could be detrimental to your game. Thanks to a combination of Regenerator, high speed, good power, and decent bulk, however, Tornadus-Therian has many opportunities to switch in and force out an opposing Pokémon. This allows it to click Hurricane and Focus Blast as many times as it wants to throughout a game until the move successfully hits the target.
Against this background, I decided to come up with some ways that would allow Mega Clawitzer to trigger the Blunder Policy effect of its ability more consistently and reap the benefits of it. For instance, Mega Clawitzer is able to activate its ability every time its move misses. So, this means Mega Clawitzer can double its speed at any point of the game. Moreover, because this Pokémon has a very mediocre speed to start with, there's a good chance that the opposing Pokémon might outspeed it. And if you rely on inaccurate moves, it is always possible you might miss, which could end badly for you. But thanks to the speed boost when Mega Clawitzer fails to hit the target, it more than likely outspeeds the target and has another shot at hitting the target!
Another example of managing the inconsistent element of the ability would be the addition of Electro Ball to Clawitzer's movepool since this is a move that becomes stronger the faster the user is than the target! So, whenever Mega Clawitzer's moves miss, you will get a boosted Electro Ball in turn--a move that threatens most Water Pokémon trying to check Mega Clawitzer.
As for Zap Cannon and Blizzard, they were added because of their low accuracy and synergy with the ability. Furthermore, Zap Cannon is an Electric move that the Blastoise line already knows from the Pokémon games Gold, Silver, and Crystal. With both Blastoise and Clawitzer being associated with cannons (see Mega Launcher, for instance), it would not be unreasonable to assume Clawitzer could learn it as well. But that's beside the point. What's more important is the fact that a potential Paralysis from Zap Cannon boosts the power of Electro Ball! If Zap Cannon misses, okay, Electro Ball gets stronger from a speed boost. If the move does connect, well, Electro Ball still gets stronger against the paralyzed target since the latter's speed is lowered from this status issue! It's a win-win for you!
With regard to Blizzard, it has great value and potential in VGC since it's a strong spread move. As there are four Pokémon on the field, two on each side, Mega Clawitzer may be able to boost its speed up to four times if it misses two opposing targets. The same is also true for the move Muddy Water which it naturally learns. As you can see, Mega Clawitzer's ability can thrive very well in a Doubles game, even in spite of opposing Tailwind!
In Singles, a possible set could look like this: [Surf, Focus Blast, Ice Beam, Electro Ball] or [Surf, Ice Beam, Zap Cannon, Electro Ball], which represent a more consistent version. Of course, it is entirely possible to run this: [Muddy Water, Focus Blast / Blizzard, Zap Cannon, Electro Ball] if you arer bold! After all, no risk, no fun!
Mega Gogoat
Type: Grass | Rock
Ability: As One (depends on what kind of ability you run on Gogoat + Rock Head from Geodude)
New Moves:
Head Smash, Grassy Glide, (Wood Hammer)
Description:
As One is just a little shoutout to the fairytale "The Wolf and the seven little goats" where, in order to punish the predator, the goats filled its stomach with stones, making it drown in the water. That said, Geodude looks like as if it could steer Gogoat's horn like a wheel, giving you the impression of driving a motorcycle.
Competitively, Mega Gogoat is meant to rely on specific support. For instance, Florges can manually set Grassy Terrain to boost Mega Gogoat's Defense if you settle on Grassy Pelt, allowing it to tank physical hits better. This works even better in VGC due to Rillaboom and Tapu Bulu having access to Grassy Surge. The secondary Rock type is important here as you don't stack too many weaknesses and can threaten Flying, Ice, and Fire Pokémon, which the terrain setters usually have troubles to deal with. So, there's a mutual and very benefitting relationship. As a sidenote, Mega Gogoat can even set Grassy Terrain by itself to get the most out of its Grass moves, such as Grassy Glide to threaten some of its fast checks, like Mienshao.
It also doesn't hurt that Mega Gogoat basically resists Earthquake in Grassy Terrain. On another note, if you want to make strategies with Petal Blizzard work more efficiently, you can certainly try it out since Sap Sipper would boost Mega Gogoat's Atk. As Petal Blizzard is usually learnt by Grass Pokémon and as Mega Gogoat's type is pretty useful to help out these Pokémon, you should have less of an issue pairing them together.
In Singles, Mega Gogoat is a pretty strong wallbreaker but its secondary Rock type does make it pretty vulnerable to many attacking types, like Steel or Fighting, making this submission more balanced. Fun fact, Mega Gogoat learns Stomping Tantrum. So, if you do miss with Rock Slide or Head Smash, Stomping Tantrum will double in its power!
New Moves: Extreme Speed, Superpower
Description: Here's how I interpreted Game Freak's approach to Pyroar: Mixed Moxie user. I think Pyroar can be a solid sweeper using its high special attack to grab KO's in preparation for the incoming Extreme Speed sweep. Superpower works really well as added coverage for Rock types, and Wild Charge can be used to knock out water types. Pyroar lacks good coverage and setup, so I felt this approach to its Mega Evolution would be balanced.
Mega Gogoat ~ Rider of the Edge
Type:
Ability: Sap Sipper/Grass Pelt ---> Rev Up ("This pokemon's speed increases by two stages when targeted by a super-effective move.") New Stats:
HP: 123
Atk: 140(+40)
Def: 95(+33)
SpA: 110 (+13)
SpD: 95(+14)
Spe: 68
New Moves: Power Trip, Dark Pulse, Pursuit Description: Gogoat's low speed and awkward defensive typing can let it change the tide of battle in an instant. Starting out slow keeps it in check, while also being able to tank attacks thrown at it, super-effective or not. Most of its setup options raise at least two stats, which then in conjunction with Power Trip can allow it to become more threatening in the face of danger. U-Turn counts as switching out for Pursuit, which can allow the player to either grab a kill, +2 speed or both in the process of using it. The added dark typing adds more weaknesses, so therefore this Gogoat incentivizes taking risks head-on.
Mega Clawitzer ~ Duelist of the Depths
Type:
Ability: Mega Launcher --> Sniper
New Stats:
HP: 71
Atk: 73
Def: 108 (+20)
SpA: 160(+40)
SpD: 109(+20)
Spe: 79(+20)
New Moves: none Description: Clawitzer's coverage options create the perfect arsenal to annihilate any opposing threat. Laser Focus and Sniper guarantee a high amount of damage on anything it touches, possibly even a KO. This two turn wombo-combo is almost like using a charge-up move, however Clawitzer still has a pretty high special attack stat to go off of, letting it reek havoc whenever it wants.
Original inspirations and Competitive Design:
Got inspired from by lydian so credit goes to them, they were very nice to allow me to use their ability! ( I did change it to x1.5 tho since otherwise i would get shot). So i decided to adapt my original clawitzer sub for the new meta. This Clawitzer makes use of its signature pulse movepool that its desogn has such an emphasis on with slightly added wallbreaker power. It is also a very innovative way of speed control that makes you choose between hitting stuff real hard or hitting stuff that outspeeds you. It is not priority which isn't blocked by psychic terrain or dazzling, but its natural speed so its still ruined by thunder wave so its very interesting. It essentially has fast coverage , but slow substitute and flip turn, which very cool. Speed is such that full speed investment modest gets the jump on weavile and other mons.
Its place in Kalos Dex Meta:
The water steel typing, originally water dark to take on weavile and ash gren on nat Dex m4A, provides clawitzer with a stab that gets through the fairies of the tier for its teamates to abuse, especially fightings and dragons such as Mienshao, Hydreigon, Garchomp and Conkeldurr. It has good matchups against some of the steels that hold the tier together such as Scizor and Skarmory, and aformentioned faries such as sylveon and florges. It is also cool since its a steel that can choose to outspeed magnezone using aura sphere. Its biggest niche however, its having a very targeted typing against the water types in the tier, such as cloyster, gyarados and kingdra, as well as Barbaracle if it hasn't setup yet.
Potential other uses:
This little fella is probably not as good in regular M4A due to the rather inmense water type competition, but its speed tier does outspeeds weavile, tapu koko and even Ash Gren itself so it might still have a niche. Vgc may love/hate this however, since its speed tier can be extremely customised for trick room and other types of fun shenanigans not blocked by psychic terrain.
I had a full Kalos slate ready but Heliolisk got bopped and my Gogoat doesn't do as good in this new meta as it would have in regular Nat Dex M4A so it might take me more time to do subs for those. Still, im so hyped to see what people come up with!
first time participating in M4A since like v4 or v5, kinda wild
Mega Gogoat
New Ability: Loose Leaves - Sand Spit clone for Grassy Terrain Type:
New stats:
HP: 123
Attack: 140 (+40)
Defense: 77 (+15)
Special Attack: 112 (+15)
Special Defense: 91 (+10)
Speed: 88 (+20)
(631 BST) New Moves: High Horsepower, Stealth Rock Description: Went for the low hanging fruit here with giving Gogoat a Grassy Terrain ability, but this mon really was made to set Grassy Terrain, it just came a generation too early for it. I did decide to make it a Sand Spit clone since no other forms of terrain setting are in the format right now, which makes Gogoat's a little less powerful. As for Gogoat itself, it's a simple hazard setting tank that can set rocks, heal with Milk Drink, and check Electrics easily with its great 123/77/91 bulk.
Edit after Review Post: Loose Leaves provides Mega Gogoat and its team all the benefits you expect from Grassy Terrain, namely giving Gogoat some much needed passive recovery, since it can't use its item slot on it, and giving potential teammates like Magnezone and Volcanion protection from EQ
Mega Pyroar
New Ability: Neuroforce Type:
New stats:
HP: 86
Attack: 78 (+10)
Defense: 82 (+10)
Special Attack: 146 (+37)
Special Defense: 86 (+20)
Speed: 129 (+23)
(607 BST) New Moves: Aura Sphere Description: Nothing too crazy here, Pyroar with some more power and a better speed tier has all the tools it needs to be a scary cleaner in this meta, especially with pretty middling competition without the Mega Charizards or Houndoom. Neuroforce on a Normal-type does seem pretty bleh, and it is, but with these raw stats and decent enough coverage with Hidden Power and the newly added Aura Sphere to hit TTar, Pyroar can be a great cleaner in the same vein as Mega Lopunny or Gen 7 Mega Alakazam in vanilla play. Just watch out for that Rocks weakness.
Edit after Review Post: Neuroforce fits flavorwise as lions are actually the most intelligent of the big cats, and Pyroar would need to be that cunning in order to control a fiery pride. Competitive-wise, Neuroforce is cool here as it inverts how you'd expect a Neuroforce user to function, as instead of using a wide array of coverge to break past checks, you use your limited coverage to make sure that your usual targets get eliminated while still having enough raw power to threaten neutral targets
Mega Snorlax
Mega Swalot
Mega Wailord
https://pokepast.es/8cb8f7e243e880e8
https://pokepast.es/6eb2b689e82ac8a9
https://pokepast.es/a2881a2cb416984f
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https://pokepast.es/0dcbcd927124299c
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https://pokepast.es/08bd4c14a0a89ec6
https://pokepast.es/290b91d01061a3e4
https://pokepast.es/f03f43b74ef93a4d
https://pokepast.es/af67dc9f0d694355
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https://pokepast.es/20393157777d21fd
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https://pokepast.es/f1dc4ae63316c67d
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https://pokepast.es/dca928b8228b320d
https://pokepast.es/db17ee2bb0b368d2
https://pokepast.es/43b2f8acfdc4d4df
https://pokepast.es/e317554ddc22e723
https://pokepast.es/5fb6294d99cc8e53
https://pokepast.es/8f39de9245a505b0
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https://pokepast.es/3d48ce3f644276e1
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https://pokepast.es/5377556d8c9fde1e
https://pokepast.es/eff3e0546255e886
https://pokepast.es/f98b7ff295b74fe1
https://pokepast.es/b1594206def389bd
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https://pokepast.es/4ca219135d7172b5
https://pokepast.es/f2f383332dc05611
https://pokepast.es/89c1d3d2ef1cd5e7
https://pokepast.es/677e60464a30608f
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(Mega)
(Mega)
(Mega) 
(Single-Strike) 
(Mega)
(Mega)
(Mega) 
(Mega) 
(Mega) 
(Mega) 
(Mega) 
(Mega) 
Restricted Pokémon and 
Mythical Pokémon (so all but the last 8!).
Vulpix, 
Sneasel can be obtained in Legends: Arceus, so they are all legal.)
Mega Dodrio, 
Mega Gourgeist-Small (other Gourgeist are allowed), 
Mega Jolteon, 
Mega Walrein
Mega Pyroar and 
Mega Clawitzer.
-
TR PLAYERS, WHERE ARE YOUR GODS NOW
they're out too 
Guys, remember you can't just do OP special attackers from now on, ok? Your actions WILL have consequences.
Less spore bs hurray
Another blanket physical wall we'll have to do without.
sure
Considering Heatran is not here, THANK GOD.
Aegislash junior, can be useful with eviolite i guess.
Weaker Gengar but with levitate
Fast, not really a good mon to use but it has double wing beat and a dream.
Mossy Sandwich, 
Paulluxx, 
IsoCon and 
) and certain quickbans of Pokémon we expect to be too strong (
Mega Parasect
Mega Torterra
Mega Mismagius
Mega Leavanny
Mega Sawsbuck (Spring)
Mega Sawsbuck (Summer)
Mega Sawsbuck (Autumn)
Mega Sawsbuck (Winter)
Mega Inteleon
Mega Gumshoos
Mega Vikavolt
Mega Wishiwashi
