Aaalright!! Terribly sorry for any delay in posting this - I was hoping to get to it sooner, but I have been positively swamped between real life and managing other areas of the mod, so I'm afraid I haven't been able to manage the thread as well as I might have.
I am extremely grateful to both
Ausma and
okispokis for offering guidance to the new submitters in my absence and trying to keep the thread tidy - thank you both so much!!
To reiterate what both of them have said already, Megas for All has
a Discord server, which is a fantastic place to ask for feedback on your submissions, to give constructive criticism to each other's, to hang out with fellow M4A players and maybe challenge each other to battles. I also tend to make announcements more quickly there than in the thread, and it's a huge help to all of us if you can be reached there!
Thank you guys so much for understanding, and I hope to see you there! C:
Quick important announcement:
While it's conventional for the submission phase to last 96 hours, we have opted to extend it by one day, first in response to some extenuating circumstances surrounding the sandbox and second in the hopes that people have an appropriate amount of time to respond to feedback.
Submissions will end and voting will begin 24 hours after this post (120 hours after the slate opened).
Minor clarification:
Mega Stone names are not part of the submission process; we will not necessarily be using the name you give the Mega Stone in your submission.
Playability Update: We're Live on Main!
This is stating the obvious to a lot of you, but in case anyone didn't notice already, we're now playable on
the main Pokémon Showdown server in addition to Dragon Heaven!
A couple of small updates on that front:
- Our existing host, Dragon Heaven, will still be updated continuously! Dragon Heaven and Showdown will be kept in sync to the best of my ability, which is to say that I'll submit the same updates to both of them at the same times, but be aware that updates may not be accepted or patched in simultaneously.
- While Showdown is the only place where the mod has a ladder and seems to have the most players right now, there are still plenty of reasons to check out Dragon Heaven as well!
On DH, we have teambuilder support, which is a huge convenience when building (you can copy your teams from DH to Showdown after the fact if you'd prefer - it's just a lot easier to make your teams on DH right now), as well as sprite support, so you can see all of your favorite Mega Evolutions' designs in battle!
DH is also the only place where you can play our various side formats (M4A Doubles, M4A Random Battles, Mega Spooky Cup aaa, M4A Monotype, and Mix and M4A), as well as the submission sandbox, which is something that I'll talk about a bit later in the post.
I would totally encourage you to check out DH if you have the time! There's a lot of cool stuff there that's worth seeing for yourself!
- Showdown is currently behind Dragon Heaven on a few counts, so be aware of that when playing!
Currently, certain official Mega Evolutions are allowed on Showdown that are not supposed to be. Please don't exploit this to gain a higher rating on the latter or to win roomtours - every Mega Evolution that is banned in National Dex is also banned in our format, but people are not currently prevented from using them as they should be.
There are also minor bugs with two Abilities - on Showdown, Mega Mismagius's Alchemist currently applies one of its effects to the user instead of the target, which is detrimental (just be careful of using Poison-type moves against poisoned targets with less than 25% of their HP and you should be fine), and Mega Orbeetle's Ability, Gravitas, currently does not activate at all. Neither of these is a bug that can be exploited to the user's benefit, so don't worry about using these Pokémon anyway if you want - just be aware that they're not functioning at their best right now if you do, haha. It might be in your best interests to be patient for the update!
Finally, Kricketune has yet to gain the move Close Combat on Showdown.
All of these are addressed on Dragon Heaven, but the same patch is awaiting approval on main Showdown. There is no issue with solving these problems; the fix just needs to be accepted and patched in before it goes live, so please be patient for that! C:
and seriously please don't abuse the banlist issue for ladder points or to win tours it's not cool
but thankfully a lot of our players have been beating them handily anyway! proud of you guys <3
Balance Changes Polls
First thing on balance changes: the Kricketune poll's results are in!
For
Kricketune to gain access to the move
Close Combat - 9 in favor vs 3 against -
passes with a 75% supermajority
As previously mentioned, that update is currently
live on Dragon Heaven and has been since yesterday - the poll ended on Sunday! It's just still waiting to be approved on Showdown first.
In addition to the Kricketune buff, though...!! We've been discussing a handful of other balance changes in the #balance-changes channel
on the Discord, and I'll be sharing the poll for that tomorrow alongside the compilation of legal submissions when voting starts. Look forward to it, and here's hoping we'll be one step closer to having a balanced meta where all of our new additions are worth using!!
Submission Sandbox
As of yesterday,
the second run of the submission sandbox is playable on DH! For those who are unfamiliar,
the submission sandbox is a playable format where certain submissions - ones that needed advance testing to demonstrate certain points, answer important questions and clarify their direction and power level - can be tried out in advance of voting.
I apologize for not announcing this opportunity beforehand on this slate, haha.
Actually, I wasn't necessarily planning from the start on promising to accept sandbox subs this slate, but people who were familiar with it asked if they could do it for their subs and they seemed like a good use of it.
For this slate, there are
seven potential submissions for you to test, and I can't wait to see how this opportunity affects them and how they'll be refined over the coming days!
Seismic Scream - Follows up sound moves with an Earthquake.
The Earthquake a base power of 60 and currently matches Exploud's higher attacking stat like Photon Geyser.
Reverberation - Sound moves echo over the following two turns.
This Pokémon's sound moves are repeated twice - at the end of each of the following two turns - but their base power is substantially reduced on repeat hits, with 1/8 of the power on the first echo and 1/16 on the second. Sound moves are only repeated if the user is still on the field.
Acid Rock - On switch-in, the field becomes Acidic Terrain. This terrain remains in effect until this Ability is no longer active for any Pokémon.
Acidic Terrain is an effect we already have - see Mega Dragalge.
Magnet Rock - Electric moves create a new field effect for the team.
For five turns after successfully using an Electric-type move, the Pokémon on the user's team are immune to Ground-type moves and considered non-grounded. During this effect, a Pokémon with Magnet Rock can also hit Ground-type Pokémon with Electric-type moves. The duration of the effect is reset to five turns when a Pokémon with Magnet Rock uses another Electric-type move successfully.
Ascending Key - Sound moves: raise target's Sp. Def before, sharply raise user's Sp. Atk after.
Descending Key - Sound moves: lower target's Sp. Def before, harshly lower user's Sp. Atk after.
Clarifications:
- The Ability of Ausma's Exploud is on DH as "Quaking Boom," but it was recently renamed to "Seismic Scream" in her sub! The effect remains the same as it is on DH.
- BitBitio's Noivern also has slightly different moves now than when it was submitted to the sandbox, but this has not been done on DH (yet? not sure how quickly I can get an update through to address it before subs close).
- The Abilities of both of Mossy Sandwich's Toxtricity currently activate even if the sound-based move is nullified by an immunity, but this is not intended and he has clarified that this behavior should not happen if his submission wins.
You'll be able to play with these Mega Evolutions by using the name of the submitter as the Pokémon's held item - for example, Noivern holding the "item" BitBitio will be able to Mega Evolve into Mega Noivern-BitBitio.
These five are only legal in the
M4A: Submission Sandbox format, which is separate from the main format!
That also goes for their new move additions - moves like Psychic Fangs on Noivern and Hidden Power on Toxtricity are only allowed the Submission Sandbox, not the main format, so don't worry about the rest of the mod being affected by this testing opportunity!
You can find this format as its own section in the teambuilder and when challenging another player! You'll be told that the Mega Stones
(people?) and moves in question are banned if you try to enter them in a regular challenge, so keep that in mind. C:
For the future, I'm thinking I will prooobably slightly alter the way this is handled - I will likely lean away from people volunteering their subs for it and more towards inviting specific people to have their submissions hosted based on the discussion they generate.
As the number of total submissions increases, I don't think it's sustainable to respond to every sub that one person wants to test, and I think it would be a lot more sustainable to approach from a "no unless someone on the council offers it" angle than a "yes unless there's a reason to say no."
I would like to stress that, if what a sub needs is uncontroversial and there aren't clear questions of direction or genuine uncertainty about its balance to be answered, it will not need to be tested; if you ask me if your submission is acceptable and can safely be allowed to the mod and the answer is clearly yes, it also does not need to be tested.
The sandbox is something that serves a particular functional purpose for our mod, and I think it would be most sustainable to limit it and keep it focused on that purpose for as long as we can. (That also means we may not always have a sandbox for every slate!)
Apologies if this is disappointing to anyone who would have wanted their submission to be hosted early, but we really can't afford to do that every time someone just wants to try their idea out early in case it doesn't win; specific questions, specific goals and follow through on testing are all necessities for this to work, and I will try my utmost to make sure that the occasional cases when the sandbox is actually applicable and definitively more productive than requesting and incorporating feedback can be hosted in the future.
Submission Feedback
BitBitio already knows this because I brought it up on Discord, but for posterity/to have it in the thread:
Calm Mind is a move I would personally be nervous to see on his Mega Noivern, and that's what I would most like to see as a focal point of the testing on it in the sandbox; I would lean towards removing it unless testing (preferably with replays) prove otherwise.
After some testing, we found that the combination of Thunder Cage and Hidden Power
might be a problem on Low-Key specifically, so further testing is invited here as well and it may be worth dropping one or both of them. Again, he knows this already and I'm just logging it in the thread!
DrPumpkinz:
sorry I didn't actually notice this was any different from your Megamax version could I suggest toning down your Toxtricity-Amped's Special Attack? Since Acid Rock is enabling a 130 BP move in an ideal situation and still a good amount of free chip otherwise, I would maybe lean away from making it hit as hard as it does now. I know the opponent switching out can undermine this by making Venoshock less reliable, but I would recommend at least dialing it back to 141 like your Megamax version and we can maybe work our way up from there if it seems underwhelming in practice? .w.
War Incarnate: could I ask for your Toxtricity-Amped to be at least 20 points slower? It has a lot of raw power in its attacks (and the means to boost its Speed with a move anyway); I would at least prefer for its unboosted Speed tier to be closer to a wallbreaker than a cleaner. 105 is a hard cap in my eyes, but I would lean towards ~101 or less.
(Another potential solution would be to lower the modifier to more like 10% if you'd prefer for it to stay as fast as it is!)
This is almost purely a flavor/optics choice, but I think I brought this up at one point on the Discord and would be interested in knowing how
Ausma feels about it:
Would it be alright with you to have the Earthquake inherit the category of the move it's succeeding instead of having the Photon Geyser effect?
In practice, it would almost never make a difference, because all sound-based moves/all moves that activate the Ablity are special, and Exploud would not generally be investing enough in Attack for it to be higher than its Special Attack; either way pretty much always amounts to "the Earthquake is special." That said, I would feel marginally better about this for some reasons I brought up on the Discord already - the Photon Geyser effect is pretty rare and it means something specific where it's used, so anything that isn't actively designed around it feels like it shouldn't have the property if it can be avoided.
ChoiceScarfed:
You might remember me bringing this up once for your Flygon - you know how some numbers are generally easier to use in mental math than others? I would be okay with buffing this slightly if it meant giving it a modifier that was easier to remember. How would you feel about "sound moves hit twice at 2/3 power," for example?
I would then recommend taking 10 points or so out of Special Attack and putting them in some other non-Speed stat at the same time, but I won't push that too hard if you disagree, because I know my own suggestion is the only reason it would be necessary; I think you picked good stats for what it is right now! I feel like that would be a lot easier on players if you're willing to do it.
On that note, while I agree with you on Metal Sound, you could totally give it some other sound-based moves to pair with this! Something like Snarl or Noble Roar would have cool utility with this without being massive buffs.
I'm sorry; I can't allow this one. We were discussing it on the Discord, and... asking people to learn an entirely new set of type matchups is just too much for an Ability for one Pokémon. It's a cool premise, but I think it's one that would be better suited to... a mod other than this one?;; Sorry if that's disappointing, though.
Your Amped Toxtricity is super neat, by the way!
kakaks has been told no on his Toxtricity a couple of times already, so I'm just clarifying that in the thread so people who weren't there for that aren't surprised when they're excluded.
PalpitoadChamp:
totally not mandatory and also not actually a nerf, but purely from an optics standpoint, I was wondering if you would be interested in making its sound-based moves change the target's Ability to Soundproof? (Sort of like Simple Beam or Worry Seed?) It's the same drawback for the most part - many targets aren't going to be sticking around to be hit with another one after five whole turns anyway, and this has the added benefit of suppressing their Ability, which I think could be neat! - but it's totally up to you!
I can't allow Galvanize on this Low-Key, sorry; this one isn't an option. I think ChoiceScarfed's Toxtricity-Low-Key (with its Liquid Voice clone) is already about the highest damage output I would think about allowing for a sub like this, so I'm just gonna have to veto this one.
Moretto: I can't allow Punk Rock on your Exploud; its STAB Boombursts hit a lot harder than I can accept. 131 Special Attack with no boosting Ability whatsoever is already kind of the limit on these, and yours is much faster than most other Exploud on top of that - you'd have to give it an Ability that doesn't affect Boomburst at all for this spread to work.
CouchPotato:
Puresound on Noivern is a problem with these stats; its Special Attack is balanced around not having STAB on Boomburst, so giving it STAB on that suddenly makes it
way stronger. Could I suggest 107 Special Attack or so instead if you want to keep its Speed and Ability the same?
This is okay with me except for the part about Thunder Wave - it seems confusing compared to the way the move normally works. Would you be willing to take that part out? The rest of it is okay!
woworiginal:
This is not a veto, but I'm not sure I support your Exploud, personally - infatuation is a mechanic we'd rather avoid dabbling with in M4A, and I can't see this becoming a healthy presence in the meta thanks to its Ability. I understand the flavor, and I appreciate that this doesn't make it any easier to
cause infatuation, but do you think you could give it a more productive Ability that represents the same idea?
Could I ask you to pick one effect and make it the same for both sun and hail? Having two pairs of unrelated effects for two weathers - that don't relate to the weather effects themselves at all - is optically problematic in my eyes.
I am the Impostor:
This with 121 Special Attack is okay with me only if the 30% boost does not apply to moves that are already sound-based (specifically because that's definitely a problem on Boomburst but I'm okay with it on other moves). In the interest of not having to veto, I will just make that assumption if you leave it as-is, but if you'd like to change the effect at all to accommodate for that, I thought I should let you know!
StealthGhost: I wasn't sure what you meant by this part of your submission:
If this Pokemon uses a sound move, it can hit hidden pokemons(in dig, phantom force etc.) and bounces back to sound and wave moves.
Do you mean for this to be like Magic Bounce? If that's the case, I think I would make it the only part of your Ability, not something you have on top of something else.
I would also make it just sound moves rather than "sound and wave moves," because sound moves are an established category already!
If you meant something else, let me know by DM or on the Discord! Thanks! C:
The Damned: we uuusually try to keep our Ability effects condensed and streamlined where possible, and I feel like yours are doing a lot of things at once. Do they really need all of these separate effects?
On Exploud, I would recommend just picking one - either priority immunity for the turn or setting Electric Terrain for free - because those are already the effects of completely separate Abilities and they don't meaningfully relate to one another at all. That said, I would be okay with you keeping this one as it is, because they do at least activate at the same time/in the same way.
Noivern boosting its STAB moves is strikingly unrelated to its other effects as well. It's already "Infiltrator but better" as it is, but I think at least that and the "offensive Unaware" effect go together, so I wouldn't mind if you kept those; however, the damage boost is extraneous and I would ask for that to go.
If you want to incentivize Dark and Flying moves, you could consider making the other effects only apply to those moves? "The Pokémon's Dark and Flying moves bypass these things," that is.
I would either remove the 33% boost to Poison moves
and just give it Punk Rock or lower its Speed by at least 10 points, but I would lean towards the former/just giving it Punk Rock because that's way better optically anyway. I'm kind of against "the same Ability it already has but 3% better and now it affects Poison moves," you know?
This one isn't a concern balance-wise, but it has the same issue of being several Abilities in one - this is just "Dark Aura + Punk Rock but marginally better." I would really take a different route and aim to streamline these into something more unified and more unique rather than just combining things that don't go together.
Exploud I would still be okay keeping, but I would like you to address the others at least, if you want them to be included in the vote. Thanks for understanding!
WalreinDIceGod: Nope, you're just gonna have to deal with Exploud's Attack being 91 and take that 1 point out of somewhere else.
If you want that badly for it to be a round number, you could aim for 100 instead?
WalreinDIceGod (first post) RespiraProfundo AbbyRainbow12 SerperiorSwagger
Hi! In the future, please make sure to read the rules before submitting to a mod like this.
As you can see in the first post, the slate announcement post and the thread title
and all of the other posts in the last three pages, we are not open to submissions for the Pokémon you've posted right now.
(For context, RespiraProfundo made a Rhyperior - it's just since been deleted.)
SerperiorSwagger, we have a poll on what slates people want to see every week, and you can vote for a slate that includes Serperior on that or suggest your own
on the Discord. Please ask for help either there or by DMing me here rather than posting any more small questions like this in the thread! (and nope, we will not be making the base stat totals of future Mega starters anything other than exactly +100 points like every other Mega Evolution!)
I am the Impostor, I
really appreciate your efforts to help, but it would be best if you avoided posting one-line messages or double-posts just to stop other people from cluttering the thread. Back-and-forths like this really don't keep the thread any tidier, and immediately addressing every person who breaks the rules individually... actually just doubles the number of irrelevant messages?
I know you're doing your best, but please consider taking a step back to reevaluate your approach and let those of us who are responsible for managing the thread handle it, if that's okay;;
In the interest of keeping the thread clean, if the five of you wouldn't mind, it would be really appreciated if you'd delete your irrelevant posts now that we've responded to them. This kind of clutter in the thread is something we really want to avoid; I can't clean it up myself, so I have to ask you to do that out of courtesy to all of us here. Thanks! C:
That's all for today!
I will end this by reiterating that the submission phase is expected to close
24 hours from this post, and then I'll open voting with a compilation of legal submissions, an announcement of the next slate and a link to the upcoming balance changes poll, plus any status updates on DH or Showdown that may come up until then! C:
Thank you guys so much for your continued support - and I can't wait to see what happens in the future thanks to all of our new faces! Welcome, everyone who's just now discovering our corner of the community!