Breathes
Sorry, it's been, uh, a long week? and I am kinda stressed lately - which is why it's nice that we're taking a break after this!
Hello again, everyone!
As per usual, this post will be an end-of-submission-phase feedback post and a
roughly 24-hour warning for the current submission phase, in order to give time to respond to the feedback in question.
In case anyone missed it,
a handful of important announcements -
-
Slate 37 (
) and
slate 38 (
) are both live and have been for quite a while now! You can use those in our main formats, M4A OU and M4A VGC, with no issue. C:
- Due to recent issues relating to attempted code cleanup and the teambuilder, however, some of the side formats are currently not working - please do not report bugs in any format other than M4A OU, M4A VGC, M4A Spooky Cup and M4A VGC Restricted, because they are expected not to be working right now! I will address this as soon as I reasonably can, which will hopefully be around this weekend if all goes well on my end, but no promises.
- If you need to use Dynamax for purposes like M4Auction, please use the command /challenge [Gen 8] M4A VGC @@@ !Dynamax Clause instead of the sandbox.
- After the current slate, we will be taking a break from new subs of between one and two weeks! Sometimes if I'm late with vetoes and it causes a delay while other people are just waiting to get started, I would consider that part of the standard between-slate break and might accelerate the start of the next one (like we did last time by popular request), but actually no I need to focus on other things myself so I'm not doing that P:
- During said break, we will be polling a particularly large set of balance changes, in light of a long discussion we had as a council in the #balance-changes channel of the Discord!
- A majority of these changes revolve around toning down Speed tiers, many of which are codependent, so some of the changes may be polled collectively and it may not be possible for one change to pass without another.
In these cases, we will make sure to have an optional section for feedback if you are specifically opposed to one change and would like to make an argument to reconsider it before the changes go through. If there are clear and well-justified objections to a particular change, even if just by one person, we may reevaluate it and revisit that change in a separate poll!
However, we may not want to make every change an individual question "by default," because it could prove inconvenient and problematic if some nerfs are accepted and others are not; most of the Speed tiers are designed to go together.
More information on how this poll will be structured will be coming soon!
- Lastly, we have a poll for the very special slate 40, which will be the first slate after our break!
Slate 40 will be feature
the most popular three out of four very special Pokémon - vote for your favorites
here! These are the four Pokémon that
could be featured in the next slate:
These four are the only remaining Legendary Pokémon and the only Ultra Beast currently on the table to receive Mega Evolutions before M4A Ubers exists as an option, so it'll be quite a while before we open the floodgates to any others. Make the most of this rare opportunity!
Onnn to the vetoes now! Please forgive me for being late with this again, but I will do my best to filter the legal submissions as usual now that I'm here;;
If I don't mention your sub in this post, it's probably fine balance-wise and you're not required to make any changes! It doesn't mean I forgot!
Also, independently of vetoes, always consider having as few movepool additions as possible! We don't have hard rules on these, but if you have even five or six, you're probably doing something wrong!
Hi! so this is a
super minor thing, and
unless one of you says otherwise, I am still perfectly happy to allow both of these subs as they are!
Mostly, I just wanted to make sure this was okay with you and that you knew about each other - your Abilities on this are pretty similar to each other
(both are some variation on Storm Drain for Ghost moves).
However, your subs are also different types from one another, and that has relevant implications on a defensive Ability like these that mostly amounts to changing a specific matchup!
I also can't quite tell which of you had the idea first, since depressed lion's post was edited a few days after StarFalcon posted, haha
Again,
as long as you're both okay with it, I will totally allow these to remain as they are! but if one of you is sure you had the idea first and you're uncomfortable with the idea of someone else's similar sub competing against yours, please get in touch with each other and/or me before the compilation goes up so we have a chance to address it! Another thing you could always do is agree on a joint concept and submit it together rather than individually. This is not mandatory by any means! I just know it can sometimes feel bad when there's overlap like this, so I wouldn't want either of you to be caught off guard or frustrated by the similarity when voting came and thought you should have a heads-up.
Hi! Very sorry to disappoint, but this one is actually a firm veto at the moment.
So uh, the thing about Mega Slowking (the other user of Counter-Clockwise Spiral) is: it was already nerfed once! At
base 85 Speed, Mega Slowking proved super problematic against offensive teams because there was no realistic way to underspeed a
minimum Speed Slowking and pressure it back, meaning it was not vulnerable to anything but priority. The reason Mega Slowking currently has
base 120 Speed is because this provides a more meaningful window for offensive Pokémon to underspeed it - and it's really the smallest window we could reasonably make! As "fast" as Mega Slowking appears to be, because it's aiming to be as slow as possible rather than as fast as possible, it actually only has a mere 220 Speed, which lets it underspeed anything faster than a Modest Magnezone or a similar base 60 Pokémon
and at level 99, not even that P:. Basically, 120 is actually a
deceptively excellent Speed tier for Counter-Clockwise Spiral and Mega Slowking is not to be underestimated - it can be really challenging for faster teams to deal with it as-is!
I say all of this because your Mega Dusknoir seems to have neglected the fact that Mega Slowking's Speed was raised so much, and you've given it +0 Speed and left it at base 45 instead. For comparison, at level 100, your Mega Dusknoir can get as low as
85 Speed, meaning that
even against uninvested Pokémon, it can reliably go first against
quite literally everything with base 25 or higher save other Trick Room abusers that are deliberately minimizing their Speed. This is not reasonable for any Pokémon, but especially not one with a move as strong as Poltergeist coming off of 150 Attack.
If it's any help, Dusknoir has about the same bulk as Mega Slowking already
(if you averaged Slowking's defenses to 95/95/95 instead of 95/80/110, they would really be almost exactly the same as Dusknoir's or just slightly lower!), and it still has more immediate breaking power thanks to the high power of the move Poltergeist, which has incredibly wide neutral coverage and incredible raw power on its side
(and Dusknoir does not want for coverage moves of other types! it has Fighting for immediate perfect coverage with Poltergeist and Earthquake and Ice Punch for super effective coverage on specific targets).
Given how carefully base 120 was chosen for Slowking, I would be hesitant to allow
anything less than 120 here. Giving it exactly the same Speed would take 75 of Dusknoir's 100 base stat points, meaning you'd still have another 25 to work with - you would get the most mileage out of putting those points in Attack if you really wanted it to be as strong as possible, but I'm not sure if even that's necessary myself!
It's admittedly true that Slowking has plenty of assets other than Counter-Clockwise Spiral, including Nasty Plot, more reliable recovery than Dusknoir's Pain Split, and pre-Mega Regenerator, and it would especially still be the best Counter-Clockwise Spiral user in VGC either way because of its supportive options
(it's not losing its niche there any time soon haha), so it would be okay for Dusknoir to be a little bit better than it in other ways; still, I can't stress enough that Slowking was considered
actually broken for having lower Speed than this, so I do not want to push it too much and end up repeating our mistakes with a slower abuser of the Ability.
With that in mind, I will definitely veto this if its Speed isn't waaay higher than it is and probably if it isn't exactly 120, but what you do with the remaining points is up to you.
Don't underestimate how crazy-strong this Ability is!!!
This one is not a veto! I just thought it might be good information for you to have.
In the #balance-changes discussion I mentioned at the top of the post,
Mega Jolteon is one of the Pokémon that we agreed to
nerf - its new stats will be 65 HP / 95 Attack / 60 Defense / 139 Special Attack / 125 Special Defense / 141 Speed
(before, it was 65 Attack / 160 Special Attack / 150 Speed).
I bring this up because your Galvantula has very similar stats to post-nerf Jolteon! This... is probably a good thing? because it means that you had the right idea as far as what power level it should have in the first place, and yours isn't immediately stronger than Jolteon is now. There are definitely reasons to use each one over the other - Jolteon has Calm Mind
(this was removed in a previous nerf, but we generally agreed it shouldn't have been and the new nerf is instead of that) and a different defensive type that notably isn't weak to Stealth Rock, while your Galvantula has a second STAB, much better coverage and Sticky Web to capitalize on switches but no direct offensive setup.
These factors should be enough to keep the two of them distinct, but we thought it would help to highlight the differences between the two and I also wanted to make sure you knew Jolteon was being toned down, since your sub has a lot in common with it and
might or might not end up also needing to be toned down later.
That's all for now! It's up to you if you want Galvantula to change in any way or if you think it'll be fine where it is - again, this one is not a veto and I am just making sure you have a comparison and are informed as to where Jolteon will fall. C:
This one is not a veto, but just something a couple of us were concerrrned about and thought we should highlight - we would really like to keep an eye on this one and think it might easily end up being problematic if it wins, for a number of reasons.
The thing about Bad Dreams is that sleep is not only temporary but also, in our case, subject to sleep clause, meaning only one Pokémon on a player's team has to fear Bad Dreams at a time. Passively doing 1/8 is actually quite a lot of chip
(compare pre-nerf Acid Rock, although this is not a completely equal case and we recognize that!), and paralysis is a strong status on its own and also makes it easier for Galvantula to stall out turns by occasionally preventing the opponent from moving at all, while Nuzzle makes it super easy to spread to multiple Pokémon at once.
It is entirely possible that you considered all of this already, and again I am leaning away from
mandating any changes, but we thought you might be better off considering a smaller amount of chip than Bad Dreams or alternatively removing Nuzzle? It's still possible to nerf after it wins and all, but I guess I am just running this by you before voting starts and making sure you know this is on our minds, especially since these factors might impact how comfortable people are voting this in and it wouldn't be right not to give you the opportunity to address them.
Hi! As noted in the submission rules in the first post, we uuusually lean away from making Abilities that are strictly better than a canon equivalent, and this is basically a better version of Trace (specifically, "Trace but also the opponent loses its Ability"). Could I ask you to replace it with Trace?
That's the only concern
(and to be honest this actually sounds sweet otherwise - you probably have a vote from me here!) - thanks! C:
you know I love this and there's not a veto or anything but!
you asked my opinion on the Ability name O:
I like Witch Doctor, which is the one you have!
Counter-Clockwise Spiral is kind of a bad name anyway P: I was in a rush when I made it and it's super awkward - really I would rather rename that than base other names on it!
Aaaa sorry but this is gonna be a no-- I actually talked about this in the last veto post too, so let me just paste that:
Sorry, but we are not planning to allow any more trapping Abilities for the mod - every type that can be trapped is heavily impacted, and Talonflame alone has a major impact and enables some very dangerous cores, so this is not a set we should be "completing" or continuing to explore. The thing is that the more types can be trapped, the bigger the problem is - Talonflame was allowed because it was first, and I don't mean this as a double-standard or as a reason to have a problem with Talonflame but as a genuine assessment of its impact: Magnet Pull and Bird of Prey will be the only two trapping Abilities this mod ever has so long as I am around to enforce it.
Also, trappers with an offensive type advantage over the thing they target are always a bad idea, if it ever comes up in another mod that hasn't already reached its limit.
Okay so... important clarification on this:
Abilities are only active when the user is on the field, so this 30% chance to paralyze would only be added to Sticky Web if an opponent switches into Sticky Web while the Galvantula that set it is also present! This is non-negotiable and is not something I would be willing to change either way.
That said, considering that the other relevant web-based moves are spread moves,
I am still against this and will be vetoing it!
The Ability's applications in singles are minimal and irrelevant enough that there is no valid reason for it outside of VGC, which makes me comfortable vetoing it outright with only VGC in mind; after some brief discussion, we have come to the agreement that it will be problematic and uncompetitive there, as being able to spam already-good moves for Speed control and having more than a 50% chance to paralyze at least one opponent while you do will most likely be unhealthy.
Even if it were effective in singles, a paralysis-inducing hazard would be undesirable either way and the consensus was that people did not want to allow that there either.
Aaaa hi sorry I feel bad saying so
but uh
I really, really like this premise as a Mega, and we discussed it and don't think the Mega itself is problematic, but I am deeply uncomfortable with adding Psycho Boost to Galarian Slowking's base form specifically; it's already a highly relevant Regenerator pivot that can come in very easily on special moves and is hard to switch in on, and I think Psycho Boost and Overheat to an extent are some of the more extreme buffs one could give it? I think it would be a lot
safer to introduce this on a different Pokémon, whether that means one that already has the moves it needs, one that is not Psychic-type and can have a move other than Psycho Boost added, or even just one that can be given moves without fear of pushing its base form over the edge. The thing that makes me worry about this one is that we can't reasonably remove Psycho Boost from it after the fact without all but completely compromising the concept, so if it turns out the move isn't compatible with base Galarian Slowking's power level, there really isn't any way to address that after the fact. That makes me think it would be safer to veto this for the time being and suggest exploring more options in the long term in #future-submissions, even though I think it's really cool and I would love to see you sub it again eventually;;
I'm really sorry if this is disappointing D:
Hi! Rather than introducing a new evasion-based Ability, however specialized and probably irrelevant it may be, I will advise you to
vote for The Damned, who has already submitted a Ghost/Electric-type Dusknoir with an immunity to Ghost moves
(the same thing you seem to want). I will not be accepting your submission with this in mind, but you can still get a Mega quite like this if you participate when voting comes around! C:
!!!
it's okay I trust you guys but
a
ahem
I believe that should be everything, and I cannot wait for our Halloween slate! : D
Haha wow this felt so much longer as I was writing it
As usual, submissions will close and voting should begin in 24 hours or a bit later, and the council will make a compilation of all of the legal entries then! If you've gotten feedback here that you want to address, it would be best to do that as soon as possible with that in mind. C:
(As usual, though: no worries if you can't quite make it by then! If you decide to make changes based on this, then as long as you can do that before voting closes
just leave enough time for people to vote for you! and please make sure to check which council member made the compilation post for that Pokémon and get in touch with them, such as by pinging them or DMing them here or on Discord, we'll be happy to edit the compilation to include any amendments you made!)
Also remember to vote for the Pokémon you want to be featured in slate 40! The link is in the announcements at the top of the post!
sorry I forgot ;-; I just edited this in!
edit: also spacing out the announcements at the top so they're easier to read
, so let's add this other fictional creature, the doctor. Enjoy this guy's medicine/witchcraft, as you turn your opponents into Poison types. Ever wanted to punish a Weavile's Knock off or a Pursuit by using Synchronoise? No? Well, now you can either way! Mega Galarian Slowking's raw bulk allows it to take some hits as it does its magic, while Slack Off grants it some longevity. Of course, that's not all. It can still hit very hard, mainly when the opponents are weak to one of its types! It also has the addition of Toxic Spikes, and, since the transformation into poison types is only complete after the opponent hits Slowking, that means that they can still be poisoned on entry! Hope you enjoy this as much as i enjoyed making it! Cheers!
An ability made by 
