Resource Metagame Discussion (Series 11 Announced - Series 8 Round 2!)

zeefable

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VGC Series 10 Rules were announced in early June and made playable on cartridge starting August 1. The format notably includes the use of one restricted Pokemon and bans Dynamax and Gigantimax. Use this thread to share your thoughts and experiences on the metagame, be it your adventures on ladder, Pokemon you think are underrated, or a particular tournament result you think is interesting. Try to avoid posting too many one-liners or posts without too much content, though.

Resources:
Viability Rankings - A rough list of how good Pokemon are in the metagame compared to their counterparts
Sample Teams - Tested teams ready for you to pick up and play with!
Team Bazaar - Submit your teams to the community here
Speed Tiers - Learn the ins and outs of the relevant speed benchmarks for the current metagame
Role Compendium - A comprehensive list of the various roles Pokemon fulfill

It's that time again everyone! Pokemon Showdown has updated its ladder, the Dodrio Cup is just days away, and soon Sword and Shield cartridges will have the ladder live in game as well. We'll be using this thread as a general hub for all information and discussion related to the format for the duration of it. You'll be able to find resources such as Speed Tiers, articles and blogs, Viability Rankings (eventually), and etc. Series 8 will be the format from Feb 1 to April 31

Otherwise, you're free to use this thread to discuss the meta any way you want! Have a team or interesting replay you'd like to share? Here is totally the place. Want to discuss an ongoing tournament? That too! Just be respectful of other posters and be sure to make your posts have some sort of meaning to them.

Like with the series 7 thread, here's a few questions to kick off the discussion.
-What is your favorite restricted or core to use right now?
-Any future predictions on the player's cup 3 winning team?
-How do you feel about the interactions of Dynamax and restricteds?
-Are Zacian-C and/or Calyrex-Shadow overhyped?
-Do you miss primals as much as I do!? :psytear:
 

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yuki

Huh? Me? Not this time...
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VIABILITY RANKING
(OLD)​
With just a few days to go before the official start of Series 8 in-game, we are publishing a list of Pokemon we deem to be fairly viable in hopes of giving you a decent starting point for team ideas going forward. In the coming weeks, possibly a couple of weeks into Dodrio Cup, we will be looking to formally vote on the rankings of these Pokemon and produce a list then. There may be Pokemon that you believe should belong on this list, we're still in the early phases of the meta so we highly encourage you to try things out. These are just our initial thoughts and we hope they will help you with early teambuilding this format.

Without further a do:

Viable Restricted Pokemon:
:calyrex-ice:Calyrex-Ice
:calyrex-shadow:Calyrex-Shadow
:dialga: Dialga
:groudon: Groudon
:ho-oh: Ho-Oh
:kyogre: Kyogre
:necrozma-dusk-mane: Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
:palkia: Palkia
:solgaleo: Solgaleo
:xerneas: Xerneas
:yveltal: Yveltal
:zacian-crowned: Zacian-Crowned

Less Viable Restricted Pokemon:
:calyrex: Calyrex
:eternatus: Eternatus
:giratina: Giratina
:giratina-origin: Giratina-Origin
:kyurem: Kyurem
:kyurem-black: Kyurem-Black
:kyurem-white: Kyurem-White
:lugia: Lugia
:lunala: Lunala
:mewtwo: Mewtwo
:necrozma: Necrozma
:necrozma-dawn-wings: Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
:rayquaza: Rayquaza
:reshiram: Reshiram
:zamazenta-crowned: Zamazenta-Crowned

:zekrom: Zekrom
:zygarde: Zygarde

Other Viable Pokemon:
:amoonguss:Amoonguss
:celesteela: Celesteela
:charizard-gmax: Charizard-Gmax
:clefairy: Clefairy
:glastrier: Glastrier
:grimmsnarl: Grimmsnarl
:hitmontop: Hitmontop
:incineroar:Incineroar
:indeedee-f: Indeedee-F
:kartana:
Kartana
:landorus-therian:Landorus-Therian
:lapras-gmax: Lapras-Gmax
:metagross: Metagross
:moltres-galar:
Moltres-Galar
:nihilego: Nihilego
:porygon2:
Porygon2
:raichu: Raichu
:regieleki:
Regieleki
:rillaboom:Rillaboom
:spectrier: Spectrier
:stakataka: Stakataka
:tapu fini:
Tapu Fini
:tapu lele: Tapu Lele
:thundurus: Thundurus
:togedemaru: Togedemaru
:torkoal: Torkoal

:tornadus: Tornadus
:urshifu: Urshifu-S
:venusaur-gmax: Venusaur-Gmax
:volcarona: Volcarona
:whimsicott: Whimsicott
:zapdos: Zapdos

Interesting Cores:
:indeedee-f:+:calyrex-shadow: Indeedee-F + Calyrex-Shadow
:indeedee-f:+:xerneas: Indeedee-F + Xerneas
:regigigas:+:weezing: Regigigas + Weezing
:tornadus:+:kyogre: Tornadus + Kyogre
:urshifu-rapid-strike:+:coalossal-gmax:+:dragapult: Urshifu-R + Coalossal + Dragapult
:venusaur-gmax:+:charizard-gmax:+:groudon: Venusaur + Charizard + Groudon
:venusaur-gmax:+:charizard-gmax:+:torkoal: Venusaur + Charizard + Torkoal

Zee edit: this is a temporary viability list, expect a full viability ranking soon!
yuki edit: First round of sample sets have been hyperlinked to selected Pokemon in this list!
 
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I think that Hitmontop will shoot up in the rankings for one main reason: Wide Guard. Wide Guard stops Xerneas Dazzling Gleam, Kyogre's main water moves, Calyrex-Shadow's astral barrage, and every other spread move like rock slide and precipice blades. In addition, it has intimidate and fake out just like incin while also not being weak to kyogre or groudon. While it does lack incin's psychic immunity and fairy neutrality, i believe hitmontop will become one of the better support mons in the meta.
 

Netherious

some call me papa neth
is a Community Leader Alumnus
I think that Hitmontop will shoot up in the rankings for one main reason: Wide Guard. Wide Guard stops Xerneas Dazzling Gleam, Kyogre's main water moves, Calyrex-Shadow's astral barrage, and every other spread move like rock slide and precipice blades. In addition, it has intimidate and fake out just like incin while also not being weak to kyogre or groudon. While it does lack incin's psychic immunity and fairy neutrality, i believe hitmontop will become one of the better support mons in the meta.
Hitmontop in general is in a really good spot right now. Additionally has SE on Dialga, Urshifu, Opposing Incineroar, etc. Fake out Wide Guard Close Combat and a versatile filler selection of Feint, Coaching, Bullet Punch, Vacuum Wave (Self Weakness Policy proc), and Triple Axel. Long live Hitmontop+Dialga from the VGC 2010 dayz.

There's a flurry of Dialga hype right now that is worth mentioning... It is a strong answer to Kyogre builds and can go neutral/positive vs the majority of the metagame. It does struggle vs Groudon but we start to see a triangle form between Dialga builds, Kyogre Builds, and Groudon Builds.

The original Hoenn Trio; Kyogre, Groudon, and Dialga. ;_;
 

Darkmalice

Level 3
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Theorymon here, but I feel that Groudon + Venusaur + Charizard builds may be very strong. With only 1 legendary allowed, it's considerably easier to flowchart opposing legendaries. For Groudon/Kyogre teams, this helps develop opposing anti-weather strategies since opponents either use one of them, or use a non-legendary weather user. Groudon has excellent match-ups against Tyranitar and Torkoal, and Venusaur is a good Kyogre check, so it can be difficult to remove sun. This lets both Venusaur and Charizard shine with Groudon. Checking all three, especially considering that they are all good Dynamax/Gmax candidates which can create mindplay games, will be challenging.

On the note of flowcharting, you can also choose which of the 3 you Dynamax based on their match-up against the opponent's legendaries:

:calyrex-ice: Charizard
:calyrex-shadow: Any can work, though more importantly, you'll probably need more team support here to deal with Dynamax Calyrex than the other legendaries
:dialga: Groudon or Charizard
:groudon: Venusaur, maybe Charizard
:ho-oh: Groudon since you'll assumingly be using Rock-type coverage
:kyogre: Venusaur
:necrozma-dusk-mane: Groudon or Charizard
:palkia: Groudon or Venusaur
:solgaleo: Groudon or Charizard
:xerneas: Groudon or Venusaur
:yveltal: Charizard. You'll need more team support here.
:zacian-crowned: Charizard, maybe Groudon. This one is noteworthy since Charizard resists Behemoth Bash.
 
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yuki

Huh? Me? Not this time...
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VGC & PS Admin
Theorymon here, but I feel that Groudon + Venusaur + Charizard builds may be very strong. With only 1 legendary allowed, it's considerably easier to flowchart opposing legendaries. For Groudon/Kyogre teams, this helps develop opposing anti-weather strategies since opponents either use one of them, or use a non-legendary weather user. Groudon has excellent match-ups against Tyranitar and Torkoal, and Venusaur is a good Kyogre check, so it can be difficult to remove sun. This lets both Venusaur and Charizard shine with Groudon. Checking all three, especially considering that they are all good Dynamax/Gmax candidates which can create mindplay games, will be challenging.

On the note of flowcharting, you can also choose which of the 3 you Dynamax based on their match-up against the opponent's legendaries:

:calyrex-ice: Charizard
:calyrex-shadow: Any can work
:dialga: Groudon
:groudon: Venusaur, maybe Charizard
:ho-oh: Probably Groudon
:kyogre: Venusaur
:necrozma-dusk-mane: Groudon or Charizard
:palkia: Groudon or Venusaur
:solgaleo: Groudon or Charizard
:xerneas: Groudon or Venusaur
:yveltal: Charizard
:zacian-crowned: Charizard. This one is noteworthy since Charizard resists Behemoth Bash.
100% agree here, my most recent team has been running the 3 of them really nicely together. Worth noting that vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Dynamax Dialga, Wildfire in the Sun is doing like 74% minimum which trivialises that matchup further and allows the team Airstream in that case. Palkia is the only tough one in that case, and probably should be planned for accordingly (that being said I believe Airstream does a significant amount).

I'll edit cores to have all 3 of the Sun abusers, seeing little reason not to run them all.

tl;dr Solar Power Charizard on this team is just busted
 

zeefable

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I want to provide some thoughts on some non-restricted Pokemon that are quite spalashable in case anyone is struggling to fill a sixth slot on their team:

:ss/kartana:
Kartana @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpD / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Aerial Ace

Kartana has been a menace in all formats it was allowed in and I think the same holds up for series 8. I quite like this assault vest set, as its very helpful for taking on threatening Kyogre and Xerneas while providing access to the main coverage moves Kartana really needs. The speed I've been using is for outrunning base 100s but going max is fine of course. You really should be using a grass type on every team right now, and if Rillaboom isn't working, be sure to consider Kartana.

:ss/zapdos:
Zapdos @ Life Orb / Safety Goggles
Ability: Static
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Protect

I've been pasting this zap set on a lot of my teams because its honestly incredible. Flying/Electric/Fire is some of the best coverage in the game right now and also possesses some wicked good max moves. The bulk it has in max is enough to allow it stand up to most threatening hits which lets you go all out on the offenses. Weather Ball is also a neat option if you have the team composition for it.

:ss/grimmsnarl:
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 60 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fake Out / Fake Tears / Thunder Wave / Scary Face
- Spirit Break
- Light Screen
- Reflect

Something players are quickly figuring out is that it's really important to have ways to build damage reduction into your teams, both for physical and special attackers. Grimmsnarl is able to do this while providing a Dark-type that can stand up to Calyrex-S's Astral Barrage, and Spirit Break is of course an incredibly handy attack to have. The coverage move is up to you really, I like using Fake Out with Max Airstream users to force dynamax out of Venusaur/shut down Whimsicott and Fake Tears with Dialga. I'm not huge on the Speed control options but of course they're available if you need them.

That's all for now from me. I need to play a bit more and allow for a bit more development before I make up my mind on the various restricteds, but expect me to come for back that post.
 
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Darkmalice

Level 3
is a Tiering Contributoris a Site Content Manager Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Top Contributor Alumnus
100% agree here, my most recent team has been running the 3 of them really nicely together. Worth noting that vs 252 HP / 0 SpD Dynamax Dialga, Wildfire in the Sun is doing like 74% minimum which trivialises that matchup further and allows the team Airstream in that case. Palkia is the only tough one in that case, and probably should be planned for accordingly (that being said I believe Airstream does a significant amount).

I'll edit cores to have all 3 of the Sun abusers, seeing little reason not to run them all.

tl;dr Solar Power Charizard on this team is just busted
After play testing with Charizard, I agree. Charziard deals ridiculous damage in the sun, OHKOing frail sweepers and doing a ton to legendary Dynamax users:

252 SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charizard-Gmax G-Max Wildfire vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Dynamax Dialga in Sun: 329-387 (79.4 - 93.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Wildfire damage
252 SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charizard-Gmax G-Max Wildfire vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Dynamax Yveltal in Sun: 337-398 (83.4 - 98.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Wildfire damage
That's with LO + Blast Burn as the base for max Gmax power.

Charizard can run Dragon Pulse for Max Wyrmwind if Palkia is an issue, or alternatively Dynamax Groudon or Venusaur instead.

EDIT: new strategy for dealing with Trick Room:
252 SpA Life Orb Solar Power Charizard-Gmax G-Max Wildfire vs. 252 HP / 96+ SpD Eviolite Porygon2 in Sun: 192-227 (100 - 118.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Just OHKO the TR settler

I want to provide some thoughts on some non-restricted Pokemon that are quite spalashable in case anyone is struggling to fill a sixth slot on their team:

:ss/kartana:
Kartana @ Assault Vest
Ability: Beast Boost
Level: 50
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpD / 188 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Leaf Blade
- Smart Strike
- Sacred Sword
- Aerial Ace

Kartana has been a menace in all formats it was allowed in and I think the same holds up for series 8. I quite like this assault vest set, as its very helpful for taking on threatening Kyogre and Xerneas while providing access to the main coverage moves Kartana really needs. The speed I've been using is for outrunning base 100s but going max is fine of course. You really should be using a grass type on every team right now, and if Rillaboom isn't working, be sure to consider Kartana.

:ss/zapdos:
Zapdos @ Life Orb / Safety Goggles
Ability: Static
Level: 50
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Thunderbolt
- Heat Wave
- Protect

I've been pasting this zap set on a lot of my teams because its honestly incredible. Flying/Electric/Fire is some of the best coverage in the game right now and also possesses some wicked good max moves. The bulk it has in max is enough to allow it stand up to most threatening hits which lets you go all out on the offenses. Weather Ball is also a neat option if you have the team composition for it.

:ss/grimmsnarl:
Grimmsnarl (M) @ Light Clay
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 196 HP / 60 Def / 252 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fake Out / Fake Tears / Thunder Wave / Scary Face
- Spirit Break
- Light Screen
- Reflect

Something players are quickly figuring out is that it's really important to have ways to build damage reduction into your teams, both for physical and special attackers. Grimmsnarl is able to do this while providing a Dark-type that can stand up to Calyrex-S's Astral Barrage, and Spirit Break is of course an incredibly handy attack to have. The coverage move is up to you really, I like using Fake Out with Max Airstream users to force dynamax out of Venusaur/shut down Whimsicott and Fake Tears with Dialga. I'm not huge on the Speed control options but of course they're available if you need them.

That's all for now from me. I need to play a bit more and allow for a bit more development before I make up my mind on the various restricteds, but expect me to come for back that post.
Grimmsnarl has been very strong imo mostly for the reasons you have said. It is also helpful against Yveltal (yeah it procs Weakness policy, but a lot of Yveltal teams have Comfey to do that for them anyways) and very difficult to stop it from setting up screens since the highly common Whimsicott and Tornadus can't Taunt it.

Kartana I feel needs a Kyogre partner since Incineroar is super common, easily #1 common, and 0 Atk Incineroar has a chance to OHKO even Dynamax Kartana outside of Rain. However, it does works well on rain and seems to be very common there, and I agree that Grass-types are really strong to have on teams. Checking Kyogre and Xerneas is great, though I feel Xerneas isn't what it used to be in this format since it has lost Smeargle, a secondary legendary to cover its weaknesses, and it is harder to set up against opposing Dynamax users.

Haven't seen too much Zapdos, but it does seem like a good pick. It's typing and coverage is suprisngly large and anti-meta, such as against Kyogre and Groudon (use their weather to your advantage), Zacian, Yveltal, all the Grass-types, and the less-common Ho-Oh.
 
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I'm kind of late, but Thundurus is really good this format. Being able to tank max darkness, phantasm, and wyrmwind with assault vest or screens allows him to activate defiant and sweep. He also has decent coverage and speed, plus he's really splashable.
 

zeefable

is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
VGC Leader
Player's Cup 4 announced - cash prizes & swiss format

you can read about the details here

pretty excited for this, I really didn't enjoy the player's cup format when I qualified so this is refreshing to see them revamp it. Still can't wait for real tours again tho
 
So with Player’s Cup on the way and the April season drawing to a close, I thought I’d stir up some discussion. Questions for the community:

1: Which restricted Pokemon do you enjoy using most?

2: What’s the best non restricted Pokemon?

3: What Pokemon do you feel is currently the most overated?

4: Are there any Pokemon in C rank or below that you enjoy using?

5: Is there anything you miss being viable?
 
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1. Zacian-Crowned. Just having a powerful option in the back or at the start of the game really changes everything.

2. I would say Dragapult. Having both an offensive and defensive presence depending on the team make it able to deal with the majority of the meta.

3. I feel like it is Calyrex-Shadow. This mon is a click to win but when you are prepared for it, it seems like the opponent has no other option.

4. Necrozma-Dawn-Wings. Just trying to build around it and having it work in matches was really enjoying. Also Gastrodon.

5. I miss Togekiss being viable. The imminent firepower it has doesn't feel the same in the newer metas and I believe it can still shine by not just being a support mon but it's the way it is.
 
So with Player’s Cup on the way and the April season drawing to a close, I thought I’d stir up some discussion. Questions for the community:

1: Which restricted Pokemon do you enjoy using?

2: What’s the best non restricted Pokemon?

3: What Pokemon do you feel is currently the most overated?

4: Are there any Pokemon in C rank or below that you enjoy using?

5: Is there anything you miss being viable?
1. Zacian-Crowned. Other than Incineroar, easily one of the most flexible Pokemon in the metagame that can kill nearly any mon with ease.
2. Incineroar if you are speaking of in general, else it is likely Venusaur. I see Venusaur as a mon that is able to kill the 3 main restricteds in the metagame (Groudon, Kyogre, Zacian with Max Flare), while Incineroar is just Incineroar.
3. Solgaleo or Calyrex-Shadow. Solgaleo is beaten by having a team that is either able to stop the WP from being procced or having a Dragapult on a team (which either of these you should have), while Calyrex-Shadow gets beaten by most Incineroars if it is not running Mud Shot.
4. Kingdra. Very underrated mon right now in my opinion.
5. Escavalier. It unfortunately doesn't function well in a meta where Intimidate is very very prevalent.
 

zeefable

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VGC Leader
been using a lot of restricteds, my favorite is probably groudon. teams arent running ground resists that dont get obliterated by +2 rockfall

wp venusaur is the best non restricted easily

think top players have figured out how to assess the meta decently, dont talk to enough mid level players often enough to hear what they think. i guess i wish people would leave palkia behind

snorlax

togekiss, nasty plot set in particular. bit of a relic from series 5 but series 6 was awful and i didnt play s7 after players cup so didnt get comfortable with anything there
 
Answering my own questions:

1: Groudon is my personal favourite, it's an absolute monster. Physical attacker that does not fear Incineroar at all.

2: Gun to my head, I'd say Incineroar, although Rillaboom, Venusuar and Dragapult are all very good too.

3: Lapras. Its damage output is very disappointing if it doesn't have LO / WP, and both items have Pokémon that use them better. I find it's a waste of a Dynamax slot.

4: I find Reshiram a lot of fun to use, I'll freely admit there are much better restricted mons to use, but it can be absolutely devastating in the right circumstances.

5: It's a shame to see Tyranitar falling off, but with Groudon and Kyogre all over the place it was bound to happen. Zacian and Solgaleo don't help things either.
 
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1: I love Calyrex-shadow especailly with Terracott. Terrakion deals with Pokemon like Urshifu and MOltres-galar for Calyrex-s and calyrex-s deals with bulky steels for terrak. and whims provides speed control which both love

2: Best mon is Incineroar Grimmsnarl is very good to. best restricted pokemon is Zacian-c and than kyogre.

3: Ferrothron this mon has fallen off but still sees some use. I just find it difficult to win with ferro in the endgame with sacred swords zacain-c. also TR Torkola destroys it. its a pokemon that needs specific matchups to thrive and even in those matchups its weaknesses can be exploited, Generally its used vs Rain and NDM from what i have seen. I do like Assault Vest Ferro more having an offensive presence.

4: I Love Kyurem-black the metagame unforunatly is very unfavorable to it and building an effective team with it i have found very difficult. Destroying unprepared Kyogre users is fun though. also im assuming kyurem-b is C havent actually checked

5: Zapdos is cooler than Thundurus however on very many teams Thundurus is now the better option.
Overall i loved s8 pretty diverse for a restricted metagame
 

Evelyie

there must be something in the water
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey guys, in attempt to revive this thread and so we can learn more about the VGC S9 meta together, I suggest some topics to debate:

- What do you think of Garchomp? Do you think it's a "Landorus-T v2"?
- What are your thoughts on Terrakion Beat Up teams? Do you think they're a good archetype?
- While compelling my Smogon VGC Major team data, I noticed that majority of the Thundurus were Prankster. What are your thoughts on it?
- What are your expectations for the Players Cup 4? Are we gonna see Coalossal rising once again? Or will VenuKoal will come on top for the sencond time? Or we gonna see something new?
 
:bw/Garchomp: Garchomp has distinct advantages to use over Landorus-T i think in the current metagame they are about as good as each other though i would say Garchomp seems a bit better the speed tier is very crucial as is the rock resistance

:bw/Terrakion:Terrakion Beat Up teams are pretty strong and i think underused and perhaps under explored. Dragapult and Terrakion combined threaten sooo much of the metagame for just two pokemon. Terrakion and Dragapult can struggle vs things like Trick Room and Celesteela+ screens so they do have weakness but overall for just two pokemon seems very solid and can offensively check so much of the metagame

:bw/Thundurus: Prankster Thundurus is very good shuts down so many special attackers and the offensive sets usually feel worse than Zapdos. I have been using a lot of Indeedee-F lately i expect it to get even better with the rise of this.

Honestly i think prankster thundy and venukoal would be what i expect.
 
Hey guys, in attempt to revive this thread and so we can learn more about the VGC S9 meta together, I suggest some topics to debate:

- What do you think of Garchomp? Do you think it's a "Landorus-T v2"?
Garchomp and Lando-T I'd say still serve two somewhat different jobs. This is owing mainly to Lando-T's better ability in Intimidate, slower speed, and access to pivot moves like U-Turn. It's also marginally more powerful and can boost its own speed in max if need be, making it a better offensive pivot that can definitely disrupt some games with its attack-lowering ability. Garchomp, on the other hand, is much better out of max due to having a potential STAB option that a) doesn't take two moves to complete(cough cough Fly cough cough) and b) only hits its target, meaning no collateral damage(cough cough Equake cough cough), making it a better sweeper, especially in the late game. While both are quite similar, I would argue that Garchomp is not a Lando-T v2.


- What are your thoughts on Terrakion Beat Up teams? Do you think they're a good archetype?
I'm gonna be honest, before I saw Joe's video I honestly thought Terrak teams were a bit of a relic of older seasons, or low ladder. However, given the rise of archetypes like Terrapult, basically I realized that many Beat Up archetypes don't always have to revolve around the Justified mon, and a mon like Whims, which I always felt was a little too passive. So I agree with Yourwelcomethank in that Terrakion Beat Up teams are for sure underexplored, and I may even argue that Cobalion teams are also quite under, if not unexplored.


- While compelling my Smogon VGC Major team data, I noticed that majority of the Thundurus were Prankster. What are your thoughts on it?
Prankster Thundy was really useful in previous metagames due to the variety of support moves it can use, and it's still really useful now. Honestly, I kind of do like the mix-up in Thundy, it offers a little more spice in figuring out which teams will run which variant of Thundy, and it might also allow for a few surprising teams to jump out and break the mold (for example, Defiant Thundy on rain, Prankster ThundyFu, etc.)


- What are your expectations for the Players Cup 4? Are we gonna see Coalossal rising once again? Or will VenuKoal will come on top for the sencond time? Or we gonna see something new?

Venukoal. Bet.


And in the spirit of Christmas (which is more than 6 months away but shhhhh) I'll try to offer some of mines too:

Lately Glastrier hasn't been used as much, or it isn't as common as it used to be, by far. Meanwhile, Spectrier usage is ever on the rise.
- Do you think the chill will return? Or is this the death knell for the King of Trick Room (debatable but it was one of the most prominent Trick Room Abusers)? If it will return, will it keep rocking as normal (highly unlikely), or sport a new and interesting team core?
- What are your thoughts about the rise of Spectrier? Do you think offensive variants will be seen more now will the decline in usage of threatening mons like Urshifu-SS and Moltres-G?

Speaking of Urshifu-SS, it's Fast-flowing, fast-hitting bear brother has taken the center stage (Urshifu-RS sports a 22% usage on Pikalytics, while Urshifu-SS has only 20%).
- What are your thoughts on the rise of Urshifu-RS?
- Will we see a wicked comeback, and if so, what team cores seem promising?
 
Hey guys, in attempt to revive this thread and so we can learn more about the VGC S9 meta together, I suggest some topics to debate:

- What do you think of Garchomp? Do you think it's a "Landorus-T v2"?
- What are your thoughts on Terrakion Beat Up teams? Do you think they're a good archetype?
- While compelling my Smogon VGC Major team data, I noticed that majority of the Thundurus were Prankster. What are your thoughts on it?
- What are your expectations for the Players Cup 4? Are we gonna see Coalossal rising once again? Or will VenuKoal will come on top for the sencond time? Or we gonna see something new?
1. No, I do not see it as Landorus-T v2. These two mons fill two different roles on the teams they are on (although similar). Landorus-T being one of a stronger Dynamax Pokemon carrying Intimidate, while Garchomp is a mon that has a better typing, and with its common build, is better than Landorus-T outside of Dynamax. It is also less weak to Water-Urshifu, which is rather common in the current metagame.

2. I think it is a strong archetype, but it is undoubtedly falling off with the advent of the Celesteela Garchomp teams, that I do believe have a favourable matchup into them. It also is rather weak against Clefairy or redirection in general, which is decently strong in the current metagame.

3. Prankster Thundurus is definitely one of the best support mons in the metagame, and I was hyping it up ever since I made a pretty good Porygon-Z team that used Prankster Thundurus to support it. I really like it, and do think its better than the Defiant version in the current metagame, at least.

4. I think Venukoal will be more popular than Coalossal. With the current meta underway, Garchomp being popular in the metagame hurts Coalossal quite a bit, whereas Venukoal is a far more flexible archetype, and can fit into so many things.
 

Evelyie

there must be something in the water
is a Pre-Contributor
Hey all, I'm SoleSurvivorVGC and today I wanna share the GS Cup team I've used to take a decent amount of tours on PS!. As an introduction to me, I started playing VGC at the very beginning of April, 2020. During this time, the highest elo I've ever reached in VGC is 1605 in s5 VGC 2020 and in general is 1745 in Gen 8 DUbers, getting to Number 1 on the ladder with a 91% GXE. A few of you liked the GS Cup team btw so guess I'll post it for y'all too ^^

I tried a few new archetypes earlier in the s9 season after I was done with my goal of 1500 on ladder with a 60+ GXE which I did achieve. Some of these were Calyrex-Ice + Palkia, DialOgre and DialDon. None of these really suited me though so I reluctantly decided on using Zacian-C (I find Zacian-C as a really boring Pokemon don't ask me why). The first idea I got was to use ZacPult and that's the team I'm going to showcase ahead, enjoy!


TEAMBUILDING PROCESS


As mentioned before, the first Archetype that came to mind when considering Zacian-C was ZacPult so I started with that core. While considering my matchups against with Ground-Types like Landorus-T and Sun cores like Groudon-Venusaur-Charizard, I debated on using one of Groudon or Kyogre on the team. Ultimately, I decided on Kyogre which gave me more of an advantage over the cores I was weak to. Now, it was time to add some speed control to the team (besides Max Airstream from Dragapult, discussed later). Whimsicott stood out as a fast Tailwind user with the potential of having Helping Hand tech to boost the damage of my three beasts in Zacian, Dragapult and Kyogre. However, I quickly subbed it out for Tornadus which offered the same Tailwind and also Swagger into Dragapult and potentially also into Zacian. This also led me to give Dragapult a Lum Berry for the VenuDon matchup and also because I can then get a free +2 Attack on Dragapult after a Swagger from Tornadus, provided I don't miss. Now, the need for speed control was met and I had two more Pokemon slots available to further optimise my team. My team was now noticeably weak to Charizard if it had Sun up which is very specific considering I can replace it with Rain from Kyogre but scary nonetheless. I was also not doing too much damage to opposing Kyogre so I added a Regieleki to the team who gave me a way to hit Charizard, Kyogre and fellow Electric weaks and neutrals extremely hard while giving even more reliable speed control to the team. Now the team was nearly complete and all I was really weak to was Calyrex-Ice in Trick Room so I decided to add Incineroar to the team which provided bulky and reliable pivoting and of course, Intimidate. Besides, it offered Fake Out and a FOURTH resist to Rillaboom which was nice so it justifies the addition of Incin to the team other than it being mandatory to mindlessly add an Incineroar to every VGC team. And at this point, the team was basically complete. I just had to add EV spreads and Movesets and I was good to go. I was looking at this team of extremely powerful six Pokemon.




THE TEAM

Get the importable version of the team here!
:ss/Zacian-Crowned:

Excalibur (Zacian-Crowned) @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 132 Atk / 28 Def / 140 SpD / 116 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Protect
- Substitute

The Pokemon the team was built around! This Zacian has 116 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature which makes it hit 201 speed which is enough to outspeed things like Spectrier, Charizard, Regigigas, Chlorophyll Venusaur in Sun after a +1 Speed boost from Dragapult's Max Airstream and max Speed Timid Regieleki also after a Max Airstream. Its admittedly slightly complex EV spread allows it to do the following:

+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 135-160 (75.4 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 132 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Calyrex-Ice Rider: 412-492 (99.5 - 118.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Rider Max Quake (130 BP) vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 112-134 (62.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 92 HP / 140 SpD Zacian-Crowned in Rain: 138-163 (77 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 108-128 (60.3 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned in Sun: 92-110 (51.3 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


:ss/dragapult:
Phantomalia (Dragapult) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 36 SpD / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Phantom Force
- Dragon Darts
- Protect
- Fly

The Pokemon who supports Zacian in dealing the insane damage it does. It gets Max Phantasm Defense drops so Zacian can clean up in the late game. This build is slightly different from the conventional spreads but it simply is one of the best for this team. With the speed investment, it hits 201 Speed like Zacian and does all that Zacian does with that speed. The Lum Berry is there for Sleep Powder from opposing Venusaur and also for Swagger from Tornadus. After an Airstream boost it can then outspeed and KO all variants of Venusaur. Additionally, if you like, you can increase its speed by 1 point so it can outspeed your Zacian so that you can get Defense drops before Zacian attacks. However, I've almost never led both of them together so it's kind of a waste of 8 EVs.

252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 44 HP / 36 SpD Dragapult: 150-178 (88.7 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Dragapult Max Phantasm (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Metagross: 168-200 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Metagross Max Hailstorm (130 BP) vs. 44 HP / 12 Def Dynamax Dragapult: 190-224 (56.2 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


:ss/kyogre:
Orca (Kyogre) @ Mystic Water
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Protect
- Ice Beam

This Pokemon helps against the oppressive Ground-Types like Landorus-T and also gives me a safe bring VS Sun teams if I eliminate Venusaur which you know how if you read the Dragapult section. It has the simplest EV spread, maximising speed and power. I gave it a point of Defense over HP because it helps a little bit vs things like Landorus-T, Zacian, etc. Its main role is to spam fast Water Spouts.

:ss/tornadus:
Eye of the Storm (Tornadus) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 164 HP / 92 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Tailwind
- Swagger
- Protect

Tornadus sets up Tailwind for my fast team, making them even faster so they can get huge damage off as quickly as possible. It can also Swagger Dragapult, giving it a free +2 Attack. It has enough HP to survive an Ice Beam from Kyogre.

252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 150-178 (85.7 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO


:ss/regieleki:
Proton (Regieleki) @ Magnet
Ability: Transistor
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Electroweb
- Protect

This team's hardest hitter for neutral and Super Effective targets by far. Its Magnet, STAB, Transistor Ability and Modest Nature effectively give it a +6 Sp. Atk boost when hitting anything. It also provides the team some backup speed control. Also Timid Eleki is cringe why do people use it


:ss/incineroar:
Hades (Incineroar) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Parting Shot
- Snarl

The defensive glue to this team. It provides Fake Out and Intimidate support while also offering bulky pivoting. Darkest Lariat can be used as an alternative to Snarl but I personally prefer Snarl for the Calyrex-Shadow and more importantly Yveltal matchups.
-1 252+ Atk Landorus-T Max Quake (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Incineroar: 168-200 (83.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Incineroar: 160-190 (79.2 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

Well, that was the team! I think the team has a lot of potential to be a threat in the speculated GS Cup meta and have definitely enjoyed using it a lot. Thanks a lot for reading it and drop criticisms you have, if any. Have a great day!


approved by zeefable
I enjoyed the team! I was just wondering about Tornadus's set. What I was thinking is give Dragapult a Life Orb and giving up the Dragapult-Swagger thing. The reason to, is that since Dragapult is a Ghost-type, players will always Fake Out Tornadus. And of course, Swagger can miss your own Pokémon and that could maybe put you onto some uncomfortable situations. I think Tailwind by itself is already great because it allows Dragapult to outspeed Timid Venusaur on Sun, which proved itself to be extremely powerful. Life Orb also means more consistent damage output and it's simply a broken item. I think if you want to continue using Swagger, at least put Life Orb on Regieleki. You are using Modest and Magnet, so that clearly says you want damage. I know this isn't a RMT and you didn't ask for it, I was just wondering why not. Anyway, I loved the rest of the team, congratulations!
 
I enjoyed the team! I was just wondering about Tornadus's set. What I was thinking is give Dragapult a Life Orb and giving up the Dragapult-Swagger thing. The reason to, is that since Dragapult is a Ghost-type, players will always Fake Out Tornadus. And of course, Swagger can miss your own Pokémon and that could maybe put you onto some uncomfortable situations. I think Tailwind by itself is already great because it allows Dragapult to outspeed Timid Venusaur on Sun, which proved itself to be extremely powerful. Life Orb also means more consistent damage output and it's simply a broken item. I think if you want to continue using Swagger, at least put Life Orb on Regieleki. You are using Modest and Magnet, so that clearly says you want damage. I know this isn't a RMT and you didn't ask for it, I was just wondering why not. Anyway, I loved the rest of the team, congratulations!
thanks a lot for the feedback! I've considered LO Pult but in testing, it was barely missing out on KO's so I gave Swagger to Torn bc I had Taunt at the time which wasn't really mandatory bc I could stop TR with Fake Out + a double up from a team member or just using Sub with Zacian in their face.
plus, I have no safe lead vs Sleep Powder Venu other than maybe Incin + Pult. also my Tornadus has Protect exactly for the Venu + Incin + Don core for example, because Dragapult gets a free Airstream and then I outspeed Venusaur even in Sun. I can then Swagger so I can guarantee an OHKO on an already heavily chipped Venusaur. as for Eleki, Life Orb only gives it 10% extra power compared to Magnet which isn't really needed imo because that's gonna make very little if any difference at all in damage output.
 
Last edited:
Approved by zeefable

Hey all, I'm SoleSurvivorVGC and today I wanna share the GS Cup team I've used to take a decent amount of tours on PS!. As an introduction to me, I started playing VGC at the very beginning of April, 2020. During this time, the highest elo I've ever reached in VGC is 1605 in s5 VGC 2020 and in general is 1745 in Gen 8 DUbers, getting to Number 1 on the ladder with a 91% GXE. A few of you liked the GS Cup team btw so guess I'll post it for y'all too ^^

I tried a few new archetypes earlier in the s9 season after I was done with my goal of 1500 on ladder with a 60+ GXE which I did achieve. Some of these were Calyrex-Ice + Palkia, DialOgre and DialDon. None of these really suited me though so I reluctantly decided on using Zacian-C (I find Zacian-C as a really boring Pokemon don't ask me why). The first idea I got was to use ZacPult and that's the team I'm going to showcase ahead, enjoy!


TEAMBUILDING PROCESS

As mentioned before, the first Archetype that came to mind when considering Zacian-C was ZacPult so I started with that core. While considering my matchups against with Ground-Types like Landorus-T and Sun cores like Groudon-Venusaur-Charizard, I debated on using one of Groudon or Kyogre on the team. Ultimately, I decided on Kyogre which gave me more of an advantage over the cores I was weak to. Now, it was time to add some speed control to the team (besides Max Airstream from Dragapult, discussed later). Whimsicott stood out as a fast Tailwind user with the potential of having Helping Hand tech to boost the damage of my three beasts in Zacian, Dragapult and Kyogre. However, I quickly subbed it out for Tornadus which offered the same Tailwind and also Swagger into Dragapult and potentially also into Zacian. This also led me to give Dragapult a Lum Berry for the VenuDon matchup and also because I can then get a free +2 Attack on Dragapult after a Swagger from Tornadus, provided I don't miss. Now, the need for speed control was met and I had two more Pokemon slots available to further optimise my team. My team was now noticeably weak to Charizard if it had Sun up which is very specific considering I can replace it with Rain from Kyogre but scary nonetheless. I was also not doing too much damage to opposing Kyogre so I added a Regieleki to the team who gave me a way to hit Charizard, Kyogre and fellow Electric weaks and neutrals extremely hard while giving even more reliable speed control to the team. Now the team was nearly complete and all I was really weak to was Calyrex-Ice in Trick Room so I decided to add Incineroar to the team which provided bulky and reliable pivoting and of course, Intimidate. Besides, it offered Fake Out and a FOURTH resist to Rillaboom which was nice so it justifies the addition of Incin to the team other than it being mandatory to mindlessly add an Incineroar to every VGC team. And at this point, the team was basically complete. I just had to add EV spreads and Movesets and I was good to go. I was looking at this team of extremely powerful six Pokemon.




THE TEAM

Get the importable version of the team here!
:ss/Zacian-Crowned:
Excalibur (Zacian-Crowned) @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
Level: 50
EVs: 92 HP / 132 Atk / 28 Def / 140 SpD / 116 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Behemoth Blade
- Sacred Sword
- Protect
- Substitute

The Pokemon the team was built around! This Zacian has 116 Speed EVs and a Jolly nature which makes it hit 201 speed which is enough to outspeed things like Spectrier, Charizard, Regigigas, Chlorophyll Venusaur in Sun after a +1 Speed boost from Dragapult's Max Airstream and max Speed Timid Regieleki also after a Max Airstream. Its admittedly slightly complex EV spread allows it to do the following:

+1 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 135-160 (75.4 - 89.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+1 132 Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Calyrex-Ice Rider: 412-492 (99.5 - 118.8%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO

-1 252+ Atk Calyrex-Ice Rider Max Quake (130 BP) vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 112-134 (62.5 - 74.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Kyogre Water Spout (150 BP) vs. 92 HP / 140 SpD Zacian-Crowned in Rain: 138-163 (77 - 91%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Groudon Precipice Blades vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned: 108-128 (60.3 - 71.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-1 252+ Atk Groudon Fire Punch vs. 92 HP / 28 Def Zacian-Crowned in Sun: 92-110 (51.3 - 61.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


:ss/dragapult:
Phantomalia (Dragapult) (M) @ Lum Berry
Ability: Clear Body
Level: 50
EVs: 44 HP / 252 Atk / 12 Def / 36 SpD / 164 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Phantom Force
- Dragon Darts
- Protect
- Fly

The Pokemon who supports Zacian in dealing the insane damage it does. It gets Max Phantasm Defense drops so Zacian can clean up in the late game. This build is slightly different from the conventional spreads but it simply is one of the best for this team. With the speed investment, it hits 201 Speed like Zacian and does all that Zacian does with that speed. The Lum Berry is there for Sleep Powder from opposing Venusaur and also for Swagger from Tornadus. After an Airstream boost it can then outspeed and KO all variants of Venusaur. Additionally, if you like, you can increase its speed by 1 point so it can outspeed your Zacian so that you can get Defense drops before Zacian attacks. However, I've almost never led both of them together so it's kind of a waste of 8 EVs.

252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 44 HP / 36 SpD Dragapult: 150-178 (88.7 - 105.3%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252 Atk Dragapult Max Phantasm (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Dynamax Metagross: 168-200 (44.9 - 53.4%) -- 35.2% chance to 2HKO

252 Atk Metagross Max Hailstorm (130 BP) vs. 44 HP / 12 Def Dynamax Dragapult: 190-224 (56.2 - 66.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO


:ss/kyogre:
Orca (Kyogre) @ Mystic Water
Ability: Drizzle
Level: 50
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Water Spout
- Origin Pulse
- Protect
- Ice Beam

This Pokemon helps against the oppressive Ground-Types like Landorus-T and also gives me a safe bring VS Sun teams if I eliminate Venusaur which you know how if you read the Dragapult section. It has the simplest EV spread, maximising speed and power. I gave it a point of Defense over HP because it helps a little bit vs things like Landorus-T, Zacian, etc. Its main role is to spam fast Water Spouts.

:ss/tornadus:
Eye of the Storm (Tornadus) (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Prankster
Level: 50
EVs: 164 HP / 92 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hurricane
- Tailwind
- Swagger
- Protect

Tornadus sets up Tailwind for my fast team, making them even faster so they can get huge damage off as quickly as possible. It can also Swagger Dragapult, giving it a free +2 Attack. It has enough HP to survive an Ice Beam from Kyogre.

252+ SpA Kyogre Ice Beam vs. 164 HP / 0 SpD Tornadus: 150-178 (85.7 - 101.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO


:ss/regieleki:
Proton (Regieleki) @ Magnet
Ability: Transistor
Level: 50
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Electroweb
- Protect

This team's hardest hitter for neutral and Super Effective targets by far. Its Magnet, STAB, Transistor Ability and Modest Nature effectively give it a +6 Sp. Atk boost when hitting anything. It also provides the team some backup speed control. Also Timid Eleki is cringe why do people use it


:ss/incineroar:
Hades (Incineroar) (M) @ Sitrus Berry
Ability: Intimidate
Level: 50
EVs: 252 HP / 116 Def / 140 SpD
Careful Nature
- Fake Out
- Flare Blitz
- Parting Shot
- Snarl

The defensive glue to this team. It provides Fake Out and Intimidate support while also offering bulky pivoting. Darkest Lariat can be used as an alternative to Snarl but I personally prefer Snarl for the Calyrex-Shadow and more importantly Yveltal matchups.
-1 252+ Atk Landorus-T Max Quake (130 BP) vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Incineroar: 168-200 (83.1 - 99%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery
252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 116 Def Incineroar: 160-190 (79.2 - 94%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Sitrus Berry recovery

Well, that was the team! I think the team has a lot of potential to be a threat in the speculated GS Cup meta and have definitely enjoyed using it a lot. Thanks a lot for reading it and drop criticisms you have, if any. Have a great day!
 
Last edited:

zeefable

is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
VGC Leader
hi!!!

a few of you probably know I had quite a busy weekend lol, but I played in rose tower this weekend because I told z0mOG I would earlier this week and to my surprise I top cut!! I don't have a ton of time to ladder or play tours these days since a lot of my VGC time goes into this community, but I managed to get about 100 prep games together and stayed in shape thanks to NPA. Unfortunately I lost in top 16 but I really enjoyed this team so I figured I'd share it.

:ss/landorus-therian: :ss/incineroar: :ss/regieleki: :ss/moltres-galar: :ss/urshifu-rapid-strike: :ss/clefairy:

Bit of a spinoff of the team I brought to NPA finals. Landorus-T and Moltres-G are your go to max candidates and are well aided by Clefairy and Incineroar. Regieleki and Urshifu are the team's cleaners but I found that I could also lead them into fatter teams to conserve my max for the back. You have to play really well to get defensive utility out of this team since type synergy wasn't really part of the building process, but it can be done; I brought a Glastrier down to -6 attack while only taking 20% from a max hailstorm with my Incineroar in one of my games.

In general I think Clefairy based offenses are my favorite thing to play right now and I've been building a lot of them, the way you can mix and match dynamax candidates and breakers/cleaners while maintaining a similar playstyle is pretty interesting to me. I played a lot of Fini/P2/Grimmsnarl esque fat teams where having friend guard + setup was sooo useful. I think Specs Eleki is my favorite way to run the Pokemon at the moment, it's just so potent.

Despite losing to a sun team in top 16 I'm honestly as low as I've ever been on sun in the current metagame. So many Lum Landos and other Pokemon that give you a generally solid matchup into the VenuKoal mode as long as you can withstand P2 + Koal.

I guess I'll try and play a few more rose tower events if I have the time, so I'll be back with an update if I get another good run!!
 
Last edited:

zeefable

is a Site Content Manageris a Social Media Contributoris a Super Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
VGC Leader
1625118417948.png


ABSOLUTE CURVEBALL of a new format for series 10. Series 8 rules with NO DYNAMAX!!! Honestly so excited, anyone who knows me knows I'm big on no max and restricted Pokemon. I'm so ready. What's everyone thinking about this though? Keep in mind also, still another month of Series 9 to go!
 

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