You are aware that a vast majority of pokemon in a match rarely stay in for more than 5 turns, right? This meta wouldn’t change much, especially enough of a change to make tspikes somehow overpowered lmao
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Metagame Workshop
- Thread starter Uselesscrab
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Perish Song forces out pokemon even faster. With hazards, this is incredibly good. I banned regenerator because tornadus can abuse it with u turn. I also changed it so chansey cant run wish and soft boiled.
...It's pretty much the same thing in OU
Changed to stop overcentralization.
NEW PLAYSTYLES: To Exploit the 8 turns allowed for the last pokemon, I find it likely that a new playstyle will emerge; Whittle Offense. This playstyle centers around crippling the opposing teams pokemon with residual damage, and then using a final sweeper to clean up the remains. this is where evasiveness can matter. Protects will have to be played carefully, and if you've whittled enough, they may not have enough health to safely protect from a z move.
I mean aside from the fact that this is one of the commonly submitted (and rejected) ideas, I don't actually think this does what you seem to want it to do (make stall non-functional). The loss of Regenerator is annoying I suppose, as is making Protect worse, but a lot of stall's playstyle is switching around to the counter to the opponent's lead - part of why keeping hazards down is important for stall.
In fact this seems like it might make stall better more than anything, since there's no longer a fear of something coming in and setting up to a degree where they can't be stopped by stall's normal answer.
Stall also can take the 12.5% HP loss from setting up rocks without much issue, since ultimately that's barely anything. The loss of Wish+Softboiled on Chansey is annoying sure, but the damage from Protect isn't all that bad all things considered so Chansey certainly isn't prevented from WishPassing to everybody. The extra damage from using U-turn and Volt Switch actually help stall since it disincentives running pivot moves to prevent the stall team from just constantly switching to hard counters. Hell, the lack of trapping moves helps further since that's just one more thing stall doesn't have to deal with.
What makes me dislike this ultimately isn't really the fact that it's a commonly rejected idea but rather that it fails to do what the name claims it wants to do, and without a large reworking I don't see it accomplishing that.
In fact this seems like it might make stall better more than anything, since there's no longer a fear of something coming in and setting up to a degree where they can't be stopped by stall's normal answer.
Stall also can take the 12.5% HP loss from setting up rocks without much issue, since ultimately that's barely anything. The loss of Wish+Softboiled on Chansey is annoying sure, but the damage from Protect isn't all that bad all things considered so Chansey certainly isn't prevented from WishPassing to everybody. The extra damage from using U-turn and Volt Switch actually help stall since it disincentives running pivot moves to prevent the stall team from just constantly switching to hard counters. Hell, the lack of trapping moves helps further since that's just one more thing stall doesn't have to deal with.
What makes me dislike this ultimately isn't really the fact that it's a commonly rejected idea but rather that it fails to do what the name claims it wants to do, and without a large reworking I don't see it accomplishing that.
Yh, ik what u mean. I'm Changing the name to SwitchMons since it more accurately reflects the meta. Although this may be a commonly rejected idea, I hope to refine the mechanics and learn from the other suggestions.
Well, if Mixing Dat Beat's OM isn't about killing stall anymore, somebody has to do it...
Don't Do Stall, Kids
Premise: Before using a status move, the user loses 1/4th of its HP. This doesn't apply to Z-moves.
Bans: OU banlist
Unbans: Deoxys-Def lol
Threats:
- Happy Hour/Celebrate users, as they use Z-moves to set up even in normal play.
- Priority users. Since defensive mons are mostly gone, the general bulk of the plays is going to be really low, while the general speed is going to be higher. Priority is an easy way to take advantage of this situation.
Questions:
- A better name, anybody?
- Is this considered plagiarism?
Don't Do Stall, Kids
Premise: Before using a status move, the user loses 1/4th of its HP. This doesn't apply to Z-moves.
Bans: OU banlist
Unbans: Deoxys-Def lol
Threats:
- Happy Hour/Celebrate users, as they use Z-moves to set up even in normal play.
- Priority users. Since defensive mons are mostly gone, the general bulk of the plays is going to be really low, while the general speed is going to be higher. Priority is an easy way to take advantage of this situation.
Questions:
- A better name, anybody?
- Is this considered plagiarism?
Metas that restrict the user are rarely successful. If you want to build a good OM, try to create one that gives the player more options not less.
- Victini's moves Fusion Bolt, Blue Flare are incompatible.
Because this meta happened in gen 6, I want to remind you all of this meta and make someone be proactive and revive this.
No Guard Galaxy
Metagame premise: All pokemon have No Guard on top of their regular Ability. This means that all moves never miss in battle, AND you still have your Ability
Banlist: OU banlist and clauses
Threat examples: Sleep moves, ESPECIALLY Prankster + Grasswhistle Whimsicott. You know how infuriating this will be. Then there's Tornadus-T, with 100% hitting Hurricane + Focus Blast now.
Questions: can someone make this a thing again, please?
No Guard Galaxy
Metagame premise: All pokemon have No Guard on top of their regular Ability. This means that all moves never miss in battle, AND you still have your Ability
Banlist: OU banlist and clauses
Threat examples: Sleep moves, ESPECIALLY Prankster + Grasswhistle Whimsicott. You know how infuriating this will be. Then there's Tornadus-T, with 100% hitting Hurricane + Focus Blast now.
Questions: can someone make this a thing again, please?
Can we just ban sleep moves right off the bat?
I think Spore and Sleep Powder are fine, as they have easy counterplay (Grass types, Sub, Goggles) and aren't very affected by the meta due to their high accuracy. Hypnosis and Sing/Grasswhistle have only one form of counterplay, being Sub and Soundproof, respectively. Not sure how to feel about Lovely Kiss, though.
That does seem interesting, although you would obviously have to ban huge power and pure power. Breloom would be very threatening, as now it gets much more power and bulk.
Call of Winter
Banned deucer.
Unless I'm misunderstanding the suggestion, I don't see how that would be the case considering all of their stats are base 100, none are 70 or below.
Sounds like a fun idea. How would drawn base stats be dealt with?
"Calculated the same way HP is calculated" just means adding an additional Level+5 (so generally 105) points to the raw stat, which can also be thought of as raising its base stat by 52.5.
Castform has nothing but 70s all the way around, so...it becomes even more of a pseudo-Arceus than Silvally already is (if you don't mind missing out on 14 types)?
Castform has nothing but 70s all the way around, so...it becomes even more of a pseudo-Arceus than Silvally already is (if you don't mind missing out on 14 types)?
Synchro-Psych
Metagame premise: A doubles-based metagame where Pokemon share stats changes with each other. To make this format more balance (I hope), the Pokemon doesn't trace its partner's stat changes on the turn they switch in.
How switch in (would) works:
If Naganadel has +2 Sp. Attack boost from Nasty Plot and its partner switches out:
- The turn that the Tapu Koko switches in won't trace Naganadel's stat changes regardless of what they do.
- On the next turn, if Naganadel uses Nasty Plot, Tapu Koko would get +4 Sp. Attack as well.
- On the next turn, if Naganadel just uses Protect while the opponent's Landorus-Therian switches in, Tapu Koko would get +2 Sp. Attack and -1 Attack.
Banlist:
Doubles OU clause
Kommonium Z
Belly Drum
Unbans:
Snorlax
...and before you ask, Mega Kangaskhan and Eevium Z were already banned in Doubles OU.
Potential Bans and Threat:
Mega Gengar sounds like it will be dreadful in this format. Probably should see it in action first before taking any action. But I feel like the chance of it being banned is quite high.
Contrary would serve as a devastating supporting attacker there as it inverts stat rises and drops (with some exceptions). Still, it would be held back by the fact that Contrary user isn't good by itself.
Zygarde is easily the best Dragon Dance users out there with its all around great stats and Thousand Arrows providing it with great coverage.
Quiver Dance is worth taking a look as well. While it provides fantastic boosts, the only viable Quiver Dance user is Volcarona, which is normally a hard fit for a team.
Also, be careful with Tapu Fini as it is the premier Calm Mind user in Doubles OU with its amazing bulk, nice coverage, and Misty Surge preventing status from happening.
With Intimidate being common, Defiant and Competitive users are going to have a field day... unless Intimidate becomes less common because of those abilities.
Question for the community:
Do you like the premise of the metagame so far?
Is there anything that sounds particularly threatening that I should worth taking a look?
Update: Changed the title, Explain how switchin works. Updated Potential Ban and Threats.
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So when you say share stat changes but doesn't trace on switchin, what exactly do you mean? If you have a +2 SpA Naganadel on the field for example and switch in your Tapu Koko, you don't get +2 SpA right away, I get that. But if on the next turn Naganadel uses Nasty Plot, going to +4 SpA now, does Tapu Koko go to +2 SpA or +4 SpA? If it's +4 SpA, then if Naganadel also was at -1 Atk when Tapu Koko switched in (and so wasn't originally copied), would Tapu Koko then be at +4 SpA and -1 Atk after Naganadel's Nasty Plot?
On a similar note, would Intimidate essentially activate twice? Would it lower one opponent's attack a stage which sets both of them to -1 and then lower the other's another stage and set them both to -2?
Like always, let's look at the defensive threats, starting with local blob Chansey. Chansey's base defense of 5 with 252+ EVs becomes a functional 235 Def, or 352 Def after Eviolite. This of course means that Chansey doesn't really need to run all that HP investment, leaving it free to invest in SpD to become even tankier.
Did 58 Base Def with 248 EVs to simulate the new defense in the following calcs.
252+ Atk Choice Band Zygarde Thousand Arrows vs. 4 HP / 248+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 135-160 (21 - 24.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO
+6 252+ Atk Huge Power Azumarill Play Rough vs. 4 HP / 248+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 478-564 (74.4 - 87.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ Atk Pure Power Medicham-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 4 HP / 248+ Def Eviolite Chansey: 522-614 (81.3 - 95.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
The ability to invest in SpD also makes it noticeably tankier on the special side too, not that anybody wanted or needed that.
+6 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 252 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 489-577 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+6 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 608-717 (86.4 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
On the offensive side meanwhile, Volcanion manages to hit exactly 70 Spe, meaning that with a Timid nature and 252 EVs, it's slightly faster than base form Greninja. Supersonic levels of speed certainly can't hurt, and turns Volcanion into a rather more threatening Pokemon, particularly lategame.
Kartana, while unlikely to actually invest into its SpD, ends up with much more palatable functional 83 SpD with 4 EVs. While 59/131/83 defenses aren't outstanding, they're more than functional all things considered. Still needs to stay far away from fire, but it survives Specs Greninja's Dark Pulse before it transforms now.
I... kinda lost there. But yes, Tapu Koko would get +4 SpA and -1 Atk after Naganadel uses Nasty Plot on its next turn since it essentially functions as a partner version of Psych Up. But if Naganadel never uses Nasty Plot afterwards, Tapu Koko will never copy its stat changes.
Also, if one Pokemon has Intimidate, the opponents would only get their attack lowered by one stage, not two given how Psych Up works. At least that's what I hope Intimidate would work there.
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Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
Yes, I agree and will add that to the banned part. it would be based on OU so any form changes that increase a stat beyond base 70, such as Mega forms, negate the benefit and are thus calculated normally. Only 1 stat below 70 gets the boost, the absolute lowest.
Ya I will mention that only the first stat in the order of Atk, Def, SpA, SpD, Spe (if tied) is boosted
Because Attack is equally low at 5 Base points, Chansey will only receive a boost to its Atk stat and thus its Defense won’t get boosted (as explained in this post above).
*Also replaced the original post to the new 1 below.
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Champion Leon
Banned deucer.
*Edited and more detailed.
70-Up
Metagame premise: OU Tier
Pokemon have their single 1 lowest base stat (if 70 or less) calculated the same way HP is calculated (70 HP is 344 HP), and if tied, only the first in order of Atk, Def, SpA, SpD, Spe. is boosted. I.e, Chansey’s lowest Base stat is 5 for both Base Attack, and Defense- since 5 Base HP is 214 HP, Chansey’s Attack is now 214 - before a Boosting Nature. Since her Defense is tied, it is not boosted because Atk is calculated before Defense.
Potential bans and threats:
Ban on Huge Power, Fur Coat, Pure Power.
Stat changes like Transform, Imposter, Mega, etc. that boost a stat lower than 70 to above 70 negate the benefit for the raised stat, and that provides potential for a new stat to get the boost (such as when 2 stats are tied and 1 is raised, or when a stat is lowered to become the new lowest stat).
Defensive Threat Pokemon-
Goodra: 70 Base Defense = 376 when max EV’d with a Defensive Nature, paired with 90 HP and 150 Special Defense allow it to become very powerful defensively, while sporting 110 Special Attack
Offensive threats:
Hoopa: 60 Base Defense = 324 when max EV’d without a Defensive Nature, paired with 150 Special Attack allow it to stay in longer and threaten walls
Questions for the community:
Do you think this metagame’s premise is fair?
70-Up
Metagame premise: OU Tier
Pokemon have their single 1 lowest base stat (if 70 or less) calculated the same way HP is calculated (70 HP is 344 HP), and if tied, only the first in order of Atk, Def, SpA, SpD, Spe. is boosted. I.e, Chansey’s lowest Base stat is 5 for both Base Attack, and Defense- since 5 Base HP is 214 HP, Chansey’s Attack is now 214 - before a Boosting Nature. Since her Defense is tied, it is not boosted because Atk is calculated before Defense.
Potential bans and threats:
Ban on Huge Power, Fur Coat, Pure Power.
Stat changes like Transform, Imposter, Mega, etc. that boost a stat lower than 70 to above 70 negate the benefit for the raised stat, and that provides potential for a new stat to get the boost (such as when 2 stats are tied and 1 is raised, or when a stat is lowered to become the new lowest stat).
Defensive Threat Pokemon-
Goodra: 70 Base Defense = 376 when max EV’d with a Defensive Nature, paired with 90 HP and 150 Special Defense allow it to become very powerful defensively, while sporting 110 Special Attack
Offensive threats:
Hoopa: 60 Base Defense = 324 when max EV’d without a Defensive Nature, paired with 150 Special Attack allow it to stay in longer and threaten walls
Questions for the community:
Do you think this metagame’s premise is fair?
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Barren Wasteland
(Name WIP)
(Name WIP)
RULES:
Mechanic: All field effects (terrains, hazards, weather, screens, rooms, etc) aren't allowed to be used. Any ability or move that creates these effects are banned.
Clauses: OU Clauses
Banlist: OU Banlist + the following:
- Stealth Rocks
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Sticky Web
- Sunny Day
- Rain Dance
- Hail
- Sandstorm
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Aurora Veil
- Safeguard
- Lucky Chant
- Mist
- Trick Room
- Wonder Room
- Magic Room
- Electric Terrain
- Grassy Terrain
- Misty Terrain
- Psychic Terrain
- Mud Sport
- Water Sport
- Gravity
- Tailwind
- Drought
- Drizzle
- Sand Stream
- Snow Warning
- Electric Surge
- Psychic Surge
- Misty Surge
- Grassy Surge
- Charizardite Y
- Tyranitarite
- Abomasite
- Mewnium Z
None Yet
Unbans:
Potential bans:
Increased Viability:
Decreased Viability:
Questions for the community:
- Are there any better names than Barren Wasteland? Does it convey the idea of the meta or is there something better to use?
- Should the Tapus be allowed with telepathy?
- Are there any potential ban-worthy threats I may have missed?
- Are there any Ubers Pokemon that are no longer scarily broken and could be unbanned?
- Would a ban on Focus Sash/Sturdy be justified, or is it simply a gimmick?
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The tapus are fine with telepathy, however i dont find them viable in this meta.Barren Wasteland
(Name WIP)
RULES:
Mechanic: All field effects (terrains, hazards, weather, screens, rooms, etc) aren't allowed to be used. Any ability or move that creates these effects are banned.
Clauses: OU Clauses
Banlist: OU Banlist + the following:
- Stealth Rocks
- Spikes
- Toxic Spikes
- Sticky Web
- Sunny Day
- Rain Dance
- Hail
- Sandstorm
- Reflect
- Light Screen
- Aurora Veil
- Safeguard
- Lucky Chant
- Mist
- Trick Room
- Wonder Room
- Magic Room
- Electric Terrain
- Grassy Terrain
- Misty Terrain
- Psychic Terrain
- Mud Sport
- Water Sport
- Gravity
- Tailwind
- Drought
- Drizzle
- Sand Stream
- Snow Warning
- Electric Surge
- Psychic Surge
- Misty Surge
- Grassy Surge
- Charizardite Y
- Tyranitarite
- Abomasite
- Mewnium Z
None Yet
Unbans:
Deoxys-Speed: With hazards and screens gone, Deoxys-S loses the niche of being a suicide lead hazard-spammer, and as such is now only an extremely fast special attacker that likely requires a Nasty Plot boost to deal much damage. It's frailty means that this is not likely to occur frequently, however it will be on the watchlist to see if it becomes too powerful
Potential bans:
Dragonite: With Stealth Rocks no longer breaking multiscale, Dragonite could become a monster. With essentially a free turn to set up Dragon Dance, coupled with Z-Fly, Outrage, Extreme Speed, Earthquake, and the Elemental Punches, as well as Roost for longevity and resetting multiscale, it could very easily be a powerhouse. Fairies and Ice attacks, from Pokemon such as Clefable or Weavile, could be the only thing stopping this, which is made worse by the Tapu's decline.Volcarona: Hazards being the bane of the fire-bug's existance is no longer a problem, allowing Volcarona to be free to set up Quiver Dances on a switch. Unaware mons, such as Clefable and Quagsire, and fast rock types, such as Mega-Aerodactyl, could be the only ways of shutting it down once it gets set up.Kyurem Black: Stealth Rocks were one of the few things keeping Kyurem-B in check, and their removal means that this 170 base attacking monster has an easier time switching in. A lack of physical ice attacks still holds it back, as do Fairy Types, and as such it may still be kept in checkFocus Sash/Sturdy: A lack of hazards means that focus sash and sturdy users are guarenteed to live a hit, so long as it's not from a multihit move. As such, these are on the ban radar as otherwise this could become Counter: The Meta. However, the ban of an item is rare, and as such will be considered as a last resort option. An item clause may also be implemented instead
Increased Viability:
Rock-weak Pokemon: Pokemon that normally are threatened by Stealth Rocks, such as Dragonite, Zapdos, Moltres, Mega-Aerodactyl, Volcarona, and more are all able to now switch in safely without having to worry about those Sneaky PebblesBreloom: Breloom no longer has to worry about Tapu Koko or Fini blocking Spore, or Tapu Lele blocking Priority. As such, it can now be almost guarenteed to put a pokemon to sleep, before swords dancing and threatening. It is still walled by grass types, priority, and faster threatsTalonflame: Smogon Bird is (somewhat) back. With no more Stealth Rocks to cripple it, it is nearly guarenteed to get off a priority Brave Bird or Acrobatics, which are now also no longer blocked by Psychic terrain. It still struggles once it takes damage, however, unless it can safely Roost back to full health. It also doesn't appreciate not being able to set priority tailwind for its team membersDecreased Viability:
Skarmory: With no more hazards to set or defog, Skarmory is now simply outclassed by Celesteela on both offensive and defensive teams. 140 Base Defense however could still see it hold its ground, especially as high powered physical attackers such as Dragonite will run rampantWeather Abusers: With no more weather to aid them, these mons lose their entire niche, and as such are entirely outclassed by other mons. Tyranitar still could be a threat due to its stats, however it is noticeably more frail on the special side.Hawlucha: Without terrains, Hawluch struggles to get off its unburden boost, and as a result is a lot less scary. A sitrus berry set from Gen VI may be its only viable set
Questions for the community:
- Are there any better names than Barren Wasteland? Does it convey the idea of the meta or is there something better to use?
- Should the Tapus be allowed with telepathy?
- Are there any potential ban-worthy threats I may have missed?
- Are there any Ubers Pokemon that are no longer scarily broken and could be unbanned?
- Would a ban on Focus Sash/Sturdy be justified, or is it simply a gimmick?
I find kyube fine because his main problem that sticks him in OU is the lack of a spammable stab, not his rock weakness. Volc and dnite might be a problem, especially volca since nite might struggle against fairies. Zard X will be better since he can enter safely into the field and set up or spam status without having to worry about tapu fini. Another threat might be Tornadus-T since he can deal damage and regenerate his damage upon switching out without having to worry about stealth rock damage. I also want to add shedinja, without rocks or sand damage he might be a decent niche pick.
Since you unban deo-S, you might also unban deo-D, since his main niche is also stack hazzards, toxic recover sets might be decent, but also predictable and countereable. Pokemon weak to fire or flying might be a bit worse in this meta, since you can switch into them more efficently. Some steel types dont gain too much with stealth rock banned. I wouldn't find crazy a metagrossite unban, since he will struggle against fire and flying pokemon without rock or electric+ground coverage, however he would definetly be a mayor threat. Mega Luca might be a bit too strong, however.
I dont think sturdy deserves to be banned, since most sturdy pokemon are defensive, and if someone became too strong, you can just ban that pokemon. The only problem i can think of is F.E.A.R teams (aron, magnemite). With focus sash every pokemon can became a gen-5 alakazam. This might be a problem since frail pokemon can now survive an attack they might no te able too, like kartana or blacephalon. Since psychic terrain is banned, those 1hp pokemon can be revenged killed by priority more reliable, bot i dont know if that is enough. I support item clause implementation.
If focus sash is banned pokemon like pheromosa or deoxys-N can be unbanned, since their fraility, the lack of hazzards to pressure the opponent, and the lack of psychic terrain to support them will make them worse in this meta.
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