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This opens up the door for some really jank interactions where a move is given the effects of a move to its left while still keeping its usual effects. I think a better way to handle this would be to always pass stuff to the right and just skip over self-targeting moves. This opens the door for status moves to give and take effects, which could be fun. For example:
For this Drampa, Hyper Voice would always paralyze the target (very useful) but its Glare would always drop its special attack by two stages (very useless).
Moves- these moves will not recieve or give a secondary effect, they can still be used normally- Multi-hit moves that hit more than twice (scarfed Bite Beat Up Weavile)
Moves that can easily be doubled in power (Facade, Acrobatics, Retaliate, Payback, Revenge, Assurance, Avalanche, Brine, Hex, Weather Ball, Terrain Pulse, Rising Voltage, Bolt Beak, Fishious Rend)
Stored Power and Power Trip
Semi-trapping moves
Some of these could work depending on what gets classified as a "secondary effect", but Zap Cannon, Inferno, and Dynamic Punch unarguably use the same mechanics as any other move. If you think they'll be problematic, ban them outright.
This opens up the door for some really jank interactions where a move is given the effects of a move to its left while still keeping its usual effects. I think a better way to handle this would be to always pass stuff to the right and just skip over self-targeting moves. This opens the door for status moves to give and take effects, which could be fun. For example:
For this Drampa, Hyper Voice would always paralyze the target (very useful) but its Glare would always drop its special attack by two stages (very useless).
One more thing:
Some of these could work depending on what gets classified as a "secondary effect", but Zap Cannon, Inferno, and Dynamic Punch unarguably use the same mechanics as any other move. If you think they'll be problematic, ban them outright.
Volt Turn and Dragon Throw will only recieve effect, since giving something a way to phase someone with positive priority (like Circle Throw Aqua Jet) will make it impossible to play. I also made the Volt Turn move non-recievable because people will just spam 120 STAB U-turn, and that doesn't seem fun
If you want to use Fake Out Dig for some reason, it will fail to do anything unless a Power Herb is attached.
Yea, I didn't really think that part through, it makes sense for it to just skip over the status move.
I don't want to include status moves in this metagame, because I'm thinking of moves like Protect and Conversion, and all of the Will-O-Wisp and T Waves.
The gold standard for "a move gets to have the effects of an adjacent move in addition to its own effect" is Fake Out + U-turn spam. Rillaboom gets this, meaning it can overwrite Psychic Terrain and prevent that from being an answer.
The gold standard for "a move gets to have the effects of an adjacent move in addition to its own effect" is Fake Out + U-turn spam. Rillaboom gets this, meaning it can overwrite Psychic Terrain and prevent that from being an answer.
If it's 0 priority, then Psychic Terrain isn't an answer anyway, and the play is to go for all the fastest users, which include Zeraora and Alola Persian.
Since most Pokemon have access to 3 abilities at most, how would you decide the other abilities it would get acess to (i.e. Excadrill doesn't get Sand Veil or Tough Claws naturally, but you put it as part of its catalog of abilities)?
Also, choosing the form a Pokemon starts is an arbitrary change and makes it feel like there are two metagame changes in one OM (the abilities and the formes). Choose one.
There are a couple ways I get past these choices:
1. I look into their Pokedex entries/handbook entries for inspiration
2. I look at their common sets and say "this Pokemon would love to have this ability!"
As for the other criticism, I'm not too sure why that's a problem. I just did it to Aegislash and Darmanitan so that you wouldn't be stuck in shield form the whole game if you don't run stance change, and so that people could use ZenManitan without having to run Zen Mode. Perhaps having Zen Mode on Darmanitan would make it automatically change to Zen Form, and having Intrepid Sword would make Aegislash start in Sword Forme? Or is that a bit overcomplicated?
Unsure if this idea has been done before, but wanted to see some thoughts on this idea:
100%
Are you tired of your your moves's secondary effect never activating? Are you tired of never getting your berry back with harvest? This is 100%! Where every attack, ability and item with a percentage tied to it, will work 100% of the time!
Rules:
Mechanic: Abilities and Moves percentage-tied effects will work 100% of the time, (Including move accuracy, but NOT including critical hit rates. This also does not affect status effect that occur a certain percentage of the time (ie: Paralysis, Confusion, Infatuation, etc.))
Clauses: OU clauses
Bans: OU banlist
Unbans: None
Special Cases:
Tri-Attack: Secondary Effect activates 100% of the time, chooses out of the 3 with regular rates
Banned:
Cursed Body
Cute Charm
Effect Spore
Flame Body
Harvest
Hustle (Affected by 100% accuracy on moves)
Poison Point
Poison Touch
Quick Draw
Shed Skin
Static
Stench
Super Luck (100% critical hit rate)
Wonder Skin
Banned:
Sand Veil
Snow Cloak
Questions on the meta:
1. Are evasiveness based abilities broken? Or would they be ok because of the temporary nature of the weather? (Would bypass the 100% accuracy check)
2. What should we do about freezes? Would banning moves with a freezing chance make more sense, or would it be better to instate a gen 1-like freeze clause?
3. Is flinching too centralizing for the metagame? I personally believe that most mons that rely on these flinching moves get walled by certain mons and is fairly countered by regenerator as well.
4. Are Omniboost moves too much? This seems like it can be especially broken on mons like togekiss, or others that also have access to flinching moves.
Interesting thoughts:
A lot of mons gain some better damage on some of their coverage, with moves like Thunder, Focus Blast, Blizzard being 100% accurate (All having secondary effects as well).
Cursed Body is a very interesting ability, which hard counters choice users, and counter pokemon that will rely on flinching strategies.
Galarian Slowbro gains +1 priority on all it's moves, which is fun.
Scrafty and Sandaconda with Shed Skin can be used to soak up status inducing moves.
There are a couple ways I get past these choices:
1. I look into their Pokedex entries/handbook entries for inspiration
2. I look at their common sets and say "this Pokemon would love to have this ability!"
As for the other criticism, I'm not too sure why that's a problem. I just did it to Aegislash and Darmanitan so that you wouldn't be stuck in shield form the whole game if you don't run stance change, and so that people could use ZenManitan without having to run Zen Mode. Perhaps having Zen Mode on Darmanitan would make it automatically change to Zen Form, and having Intrepid Sword would make Aegislash start in Sword Forme? Or is that a bit overcomplicated?
Basically, because you're making totally arbitrary choices, this would be a Pet Mod rather than an OM.
For it to be an OM, you would have to have a single clear and consistent rule that determines the Pokemon's available Abilities without discussion. The moment the rules of the metagame are subjective, it's a Pet Mod.
And yes, the Form thing is also Pet Mod territory, because there's no reason for it beyond "I made it I say so".
This sounds more like a petmod tbh. You would have to decide each Pokemon's abilities by hand.
Also after some criticism over complexity, I think a better idea would be Candymons SS based on the Candy meta from LGPE, since the premise originally was essentially that with the limits of EVs, but I would like to hear some other people's opinions first.
Alternatively, a DV based Meta like Gens 1&2 could be interesting too.
I'm actually doing that right now with each mon in Ubers and OU/UUBL! Also, what exactly makes my concept sound like a Pet Mod? I know the difference, but what makes it not an OM?
Yeah, this meta doesn’t sound too fun. From what you describe:
Omni boosting moves such as Ancient Power can easily break any set up sweeper that gets it.
Flinching is extremely oppressive; you basically have to run Inner Focus or else you just lose.
Allowing moves to have perfect accuracy and always activate their secondary effect means that Shadow Ball and Focus Blast, which many special attackers get access to, are guaranteed to get a SpD drop. There are no words for how broken that combo is.
You need to restrict freeze, since that second option you proposed would basically ban all Ice moves.
Every hit being guaranteed to land basically kills all playstyles except HO, especially with the guaranteed effects.
This meta is heavily focused on status spam, which just- doesn’t sound appealing.
Cursed Body basically invalidates Choice items, unless you have Trick or Switcheroo.
100% accuracy + Hustle= NO
If you want this meta to work, there is a lot of things you need to address. For one, I think you should nix the accuracy thing altogether.
Basically, because you're making totally arbitrary choices, this would be a Pet Mod rather than an OM.
For it to be an OM, you would have to have a single clear and consistent rule that determines the Pokemon's available Abilities without discussion. The moment the rules of the metagame are subjective, it's a Pet Mod.
And yes, the Form thing is also Pet Mod territory, because there's no reason for it beyond "I made it I say so".
I'm kind of thrown off by your use of subjective. what exactly do you mean by that (and yes, I know what subjectively means.)? Also, what choices do you consider arbitrary? Your criticism is valid, but vague (at least to me).
I'm kind of thrown off by your use of subjective. what exactly do you mean by that (and yes, I know what subjectively means.)? Also, what choices do you consider arbitrary? Your criticism is valid, but vague (at least to me).
The extra change made (choosing forms) is unrelated to the main premise (choosing 2 out of 5 abilities). Each OM should have one clear premise.
Also, since the ability catalogs are chosen by someone, it causes many problems. What if you give Excadrill Wonder Guard and no else likes the idea. Sure, you could have people vote on what abilities a Pokemon should get, but that would already make it a Pet Mod.
I'm kind of thrown off by your use of subjective. what exactly do you mean by that (and yes, I know what subjectively means.)? Also, what choices do you consider arbitrary? Your criticism is valid, but vague (at least to me).
Ok, why does Excadrill get Tough Claws and Sand Veil over other possible Abilites such as Steelworker, Lightning Rod, Sniper or even Heatproof (those claws get really hot while it's digging)? You can give whatever reasons you like, but the choice is inherently subjective, and "my rules I say so" is Pet Mod territory, as is asking people to vote on what abilities it should have (This is in fact what most Pet Mods do).
EDIT: Also, even if you did resolve that, it would probably just be a more restrictive version of Almost Any Ability.
I'm actually doing that right now with each mon in Ubers and OU/UUBL! Also, what exactly makes my concept sound like a Pet Mod? I know the difference, but what makes it not an OM?
Pet Mods are typically complex metagames with community input based around an idea.
From the looks of it, it seems like you’ll be giving Pokemon an extra 2-4 abilities without any consistency.
Like why does Excadrill specifically get Tough Claws and Sand Veil?
Yeah it fits with the theme of Excadrill, but that’s decided by humans rather than a rule.
Ok, why does Excadrill get Tough Claws and Sand Veil over other possible Abilites such as Steelworker, Lightning Rod, Sniper or even Heatproof (those claws get really hot while it's digging)? You can give whatever reasons you like, but the choice is inherently subjective, and "my rules I say so" is Pet Mod territory, as is asking people to vote on what abilities it should have (This is in fact what most Pet Mods do).
EDIT: Also, even if you did resolve that, it would probably just be a more restrictive version of Almost Any Ability.
well then, I guess I'll remove the forms part and go with a solution I came up with to combat that problem:
Aegislash would start in Sword Form if it has intrepid sword.
A Darmanitan or Galarian Darmanitan would also start in Zen Mode if they have the ability Zen Mode.
Your other criticism is completely valid, so I'll enlist a discord server I'm in for help on the ability pools.
Finally, I changed the name of the gamemode to Double Time.
Any thoughts?
P.S. why tf would Excadrill get Lightning Rod?
I actually had an idea decently similar to this.
It's called PokeMayhem!
basically, each pokemon has a catalog of 5 abilities to choose from. each pokemon gets two abilities.
for instance:
Excadrill gets sand rush, mold breaker, tough claws, sand veil and sand force.
Note: abilities that summon weather cannot be paired with abilities that boost stats/move powers in a weather (save the veil abilities).
Pokemon would also be able to have two items:
one item that boosts a stat (or z-moves/mega-stones/items that add an extra effect to an attack)
one item that provides healing or utility (Herbs, Leftovers, Berries, Iron Ball, etc.)
Going back to Excadrill, a set for it might look something like this:
utility sweeper (sand rush)
Abilities: Sand Rush/Mold Breaker
Items: Steelium Z or Groundium Z/Leftovers or Focus Sash
Moves: Rapid Spin or Swords Dance, Earthquake, Iron Head, Stealth Rock or Toxic or Swords Dance
EVs: 252 Atk, 76 Speed, 126 SpDef
the format would, as implied, Nat Dex. The tier used is to be seen.
definite bans:
G-Darm
Both Mega Mewtwos
Zacian Crowned, probably
Unburden
Might Ban:
MegaGross
Mega Beedrill (????)
Excadrill
In addition to this, you would be able to choose between Regular Darmanitan's two forms, and you could also choose which form Aegislash starts with!
This is just a concept, so any feedback is valuable! I will start working on concepts for each pokemon in Nat Dex OU and Sword and Shield OU and Ubers! I'll post it when I am done, and if you wanna team up, that would cool!
One important thing I'm taking from all of this, even with all of the changes mentioned above is that this is going to have arbitrary decisions made in it, and that it would be more suited to Pet Mods, especially with how the decisions are arbitrary. No matter how you try to change it, you'll always face the fact that the decisions are arbitrary, and thus, cannot be accepted as a regular OM. Even if they fit flavorwise, or is probably literally common sense, the fact remains that it's not something the pokemon started with. (Also, National Dex based metas would usually go in Pet Mods, so even if it was somehow able to be changed into something that would be accepted as an OM, basing it in National Dex would automatically make it a Pet Mod.)
I was thinking about the limitations of what we can use in Metagames. In some metagames, we can use Pokémon as a stat to get a boost. In some, we can nickname our Pokémon an item for a second item slot. Stuff like that. I was also thinking of a previous submission that I have posted in the Solomods Megathread that allows you to inherit moves from other Pokémon. So I’ve been trying to think of an excuse to make a metagame with it being required to have a nickname and 4 Pokémon names as moves. So I’m not sure what this would be called, but it’s basically “Inheritance” but with a little bit of a change.
Premise: The first Pokémon “inherits” traits from other Pokémon in your team. The nickname inherits whichever Pokémon in your party you nickname it as’s primary type. Shiny inherits secondary type. On to the moves. The moves would be in order of the moves on the Pokémon in your party. If you want to inherit the first move from your second Pokémon, you’d put your second Pokémon in the first move slot. Simple enough. You may not inherit moves from the Pokémon you’re taking a type from. Also, the type must change in some way when you inherit a type. This allows for some creative team building processes. My first instinct is to call this something to do with Inheritance, but it’s more suited to a different name. I’ll call it Mirrormons.
It reminds me a bit of Chimera 1v1 too, in that you inherit from your whole team. That metagame tends have issues with player interest, as it is rather hard to build for.
Metagame premise: Sun, rain, sandstorm, hail, gravity, mist and uproar (prevents sleeping) are all active. That means that :
Solarbeam /solarblade don't require a charge turn
Hurricane always hit
All climate related abilities are active
Rock type pokemons special defense is increased by 50%
...
Q: what is thunder accuracy?
A: it doesn't check accuracy because of rain
Questions for community:
Might it be fun?
Should trick room be added?
Metagame premise: Sun, rain, sandstorm, hail, gravity, mist and uproar (prevents sleeping) are all active. That means that :
Solarbeam /solarblade don't require a charge turn
Hurricane always hit
All climate related abilities are active
Rock type pokemons special defense is increased by 50%
...
Q: what is thunder accuracy?
A: it doesn't check accuracy because of rain
Questions for community:
Might it be fun?
Should trick room be added?
If trick room will be added, all terrains along with gravity, magic room and wonder room will be active
I think it's a bit too much
If it's only weather then I dont think it changes much of OU to be special.
I think Acid Rain sounds really interesting. I would probably simplify it by sticking to just the weathers—that way, you can easily summarize the meta in one sentence, and don’t have to pick and choose which additional field effects are active (e.g. why uproar???). Stay out of pet mod territory.
I think Acid Rain would be quite different from regular OU. For one thing you have permanent weather again, so everything has to adapt to its (guaranteed) continual presence. Yet it’s not simply a war between rain and sun anymore. In fact, sweepers from those archetypes will actually be manageable, with only 75% power on water and fire moves. Then of course the fact that everything is taking double chip damage will completely redefine the defensive landscape. Greatly buffed are pokemon that can afford to run Safety Goggles, are part Rock/Ground/Steel/Ice type, or have the abilities Magic Guard, Overcoat, Hydration, Rain Dish, or even Ice Body or Cloud Nine. Could this be the meta where Lapras, Drampa, and Palossand finally see the light of day? (joining things like Mandibuzz, Kommo-o, Alakazam, and Reuniclus)
Sand archetypes are probably the biggest winners here, given that Sand Force and Sand Rush attackers don't receive a power loss like Water and Fire types do, while being immune to sandstorm chip and getting a SpDef buff to Rock types. Aurora Veil could also become problematic.
How would you handle Solar Beam? Insta-charge from sun, two-turn charge from other weathers, or the one-turn charge as is usual?
Good luck building your submission. Hope it gets approved.
The new item utility umbrella sounds interesting in this metagame though, decreases the accuracy of Thunder against the holder and makes moonlight/synthesis/Morning Sun viable. Unfortunately it might be outclassed by Safety Goggles to prevent chip.
