Metagross


Metagross

[Overview]

<p>With an excellent base 135 Attack and the bulk to complement it, Metagross can fit right in with the Uber Pokemon. While Metagross lost its nuclear powered Explosion, and faces even more competition with Groudon than ever before, the big iron super computer can still hold its own. Its STAB Meteor Mash is extremely powerful, especially when boosted by a Choice Band, and it even has the potential to raise Metagross’s Attack further. Its stellar defensive typing grants it an immunity to Toxic and Toxic Spikes, along with a crucial resist to Dragon- and Ice-type moves, allowing it to take on Lugia much better than other physical attackers. These qualities also make it an excellent switch in to Choice locked Dragon-type attacks, and Metagross can Pursuit them as they flee for a large amount of damage. Clear Body also makes it a great check to Shaymin-S, taking Seed Flare without risk of a Special Defense drop while sporting a resistance to both of its STABs. Despite these excellent qualities, Steel isn't the greatest offensive type, and Metagross would have really enjoyed significantly more Speed, even with Bullet Punch. Nevertheless, Metagross has bulk beyond that of Skarmory, a devastating Attack, and thus should be considered when building a team.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: Meteor Mash
move 2: Pursuit
move 3: Bullet Punch
move 4: Hammer Arm / Earthquake
item: Choice Band
ability: Clear Body
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP/ 252 Atk/ 4 SpD


[SET COMMENTS]

<p>With a base 135 Attack and a respectable movepool, it's no wonder why Metagross can abuse a Choice Band to such great effect. After the boost provided, Metagross reaches an amazing 607 Attack, admirable even by Uber standards. Backed by its excellent signature STAB attack: Meteor Mash, Metagross can easily smash holes in the opposing team. For example, even Bold Lugia is 2HKOed after Stealth Rock, and Timid variants are 2HKOed regardless. Offensive variants of Groudon will also fall in two hits even without Stealth Rock. Meteor Mash also has the possibility of raising Metagross's Attack stat, that can turn one on one situations against Giratina (that lack Will-O-Wisp) into wins. Metagross can even 2HKO specially defensive Bronzong and Skarmory with Meteor Mash if it gets the boost!</p>

<p>With Metagross's excellent bulk and typing, it can effortlessly switch into even boosted Outrage and KO the dragon using it. Metagross doesn't mind switching in on Palkia or other Dragon-types locked into a Choiced Spacial Rend or Draco Meteor either, and can Pursuit them as they flee for a large amount of damage, clearing the way for teammates that are troubled by them. Beware of good prediction, however, as most are cautious before locking themselves in to an attack and a correct prediction by the opponent can mean the end of Metagross.</p>

<p>Bullet Punch provides a useful STAB priority attack that can easily clean up a weakened team, and provides some insurance against some ferocious but frail sweepers such as Deoxys-A and Darkrai. Despite this, some may find its power lackluster, as it's not even half as strong as Meteor Mash and can't even 2HKO Mewtwo with Stealth Rock. Therefore, Explosion is a perfectly viable attack over Bullet Punch, as it's still Metagross's strongest attack even with the major nerf and it OHKOes almost every common switch-in with the exception of Giratina. Hammer Arm rounds out the coverage, OHKOing Dialga and physically defensive Ferrothorn with some prior damage, two Pokemon that would otherwise be annoying to face. Hammer Arm hits most Steel-type Pokemon just as hard or harder than Earthquake. Despite this, Earthquake is still viable if you are particularly troubled by Electric Arceus, Jirachi, opposing Metagross, or even the tiny chance of missing. Just make sure to have a way to beat Ferrothorn.</p>


[ ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]
<p>The given EV spread is standard for slow bulky attackers, maximizing Attack and HP. An alternate spread of 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SpD with an Adamant nature can also be used, as this allows Metagross to take Spacial Rends and Draco Meteors much better while still retaining just enough power to 2HKO most Arceus variants. It also allows Metagross to survive a Choice Scarf Palkia's Fire Blast out of the sun even if Palkia uses a Modest nature. Zen Headbutt is an option to reliably 2HKO Kyogre and Palkia while attaining a OHKO on Ho-Oh after Stealth Rock, although being locked in to a Psychic-type attack can give Dark-types such as Darkai a free switch in. Ice Punch may look appealing to hit Dragons with, but a neutral Meteor Mash is just as strong as a super-effective Ice Punch, and Rayquaza and Garchomp are OHKOed by Meteor Mash with prior residual damage anyway. Trick can also be used to cripple some of Metagross's common switch-ins such as Giratina or Skarmory, although Tricking Ho-Oh or Groudon a Choice Band will hurt Metagross more.</p>

<p>While Metagross has enough power to weaken most physical walls, it cannot finish them alone, meaning entry hazards help it immensely. Stealth Rock is required for Metagross to function properly, otherwise Bold Lugia and Ho-Oh would be much more reliable checks. Several layers of Spikes can also help Metagross substantially, as Groudon and Giratina would no longer be able to counter Metagross effectively. Ferrothorn and Forretress are the best spikers, can set up Stealth Rock, and the former can leave a large dent in Groudon with Power Whip. However, the common Fire-type weakness must be well covered. Tentacruel and its Toxic Spikes can also permanently cripple Groudon, although they aren't used to great effect on offensive teams and Giratina can easily Rest off the poison. Offensively, Pokemon that can remove physical walls work wonders with Metagross. Mixed Rayquaza is an excellent example; luring and destroying Groudon with its Draco Meteor while also being able to pill drive Giratina in to the ground with the same attack. Rayquaza also shares perfect synergy with Metagross. Mixed Giratina-O is also a great partner even without perfect synergy, as it can check Groudon very effectively and has the added bonus of being able to spin block. Kyogre can negate Metagross's Fire-type weakness with its infinite Rain, and can freely spam its Water Spout should Metagross manage to weaken Palkia with Pursuit.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Metagross has a decent movepool, but few viable options. Metagross has many other moves it can run on its Choice Band set, although the ones listed are generally the best. ThunderPunch can be used for the 2HKO on Kyogre, Skarmory, and Ho-Oh, while Rock Slide can be used if one is paranoid about the latter. They are both quite weak otherwise. Metagross can run a Trick+Iron Ball set, allowing it to take away its checks' Leftovers at worst, with the possibility of grounding Skarmory or Ho-Oh. Metagross could even Trick an Iron Ball to a faster Pokemon such as Mewtwo, thus crippling it for the rest of the match. 88 Speed EVs are recommended for such a set to outspeed everything up to Mewtwo after Tricking them an Iron Ball. More EVs could be used to beat faster Pokemon, but this starts to detract from Metagross's bulk. Just keep in mind that Metagross loses many OHKOes and 2HKOes without an item to boost its power. Metagross also has a good support movepool with Stealth Rock, Reflect, and Light Screen, although Ferrothorn and Bronzong are better at these jobs. Metagross also gets Hone Claws and Agility, although its only advantage over Groudon in these roles is its better defensive typing; otherwise, it's completely outclassed. Metagross can attempt to run a more defensively inclined set, and has Toxic to cripple some of its checks, but lacks recovery outside of Rest. Metagross can run an all out attacker set, but it needs Life Orb to do any real damage, and the recoil really cuts into its prized bulk. Metagross also has plenty of special attacking options that would be great if it had the Special Attack to go with it. Grass Knot can get a surprise 2HKO on Groudon though, with some investment. Finally Metagross gets the gimmicky Gravity that grounds some of its checks, although it can often backfire.</p>


[Checks and Counters]

<p>A universal counter to Metagross doesn't exist and must be beaten with prediction thanks to its sheer power. Many offensive Pokemon are 2HKOed with Meteor Mash even if they resist it. For example, Palkia is almost always 2HKOed after Stealth Rock. This is made worse by the fact that many of of its checks can be beaten with another move. Giratina is arguably the best counter, as it can easily survive a Meteor Mash and burn Metagross with Will-O-Wisp. Giratina must be kept in good health though, as it can run the risk of being 2HKOed by Meteor Mash with some prior damage and will despise Trick. Defensive Groudon is also a good counter, as it can survive a Meteor Mash and retaliate with Earthquake. Groudon will still be weakened after absorbing a Meteor Mash though, and can be 2HKOed with Spikes support. Ho-Oh is a decent check if Stealth Rock is off the field, as it can outspeed and OHKO Metagross with its Sacred Fire outside of Rain. It cannot take Zen Headbutt or ThunderPunch very well, though, and is destroyed by Rock Slide or Explosion. Skarmory and Bronzong are decent checks, as they can set up Spikes, screens, or Trick Room on Metagross, while the former can phaze Metagross as well. Both despise Trick, and the former doesn't enjoy taking a ThunderPunch. The former will always lose one on one thanks to Meteor Mash's Attack raising effect, while the latter must have Earthquake to have any chance of winning. A physically defensive Ferrothorn also annoys Metagross greatly if Metagross lacks Hammer Arm. Reshiram can survive a Meteor Mash and melt Metagross with Blue Flare regardless of the weather. Preying on Metagross's low Speed is often the easiest way to dispose of it, as many Pokemon have more than base 70 Speed.</p>

[Dream World]

<p>Metagross obtains Light Metal as its Dream World ability, which is quite useless compared to Clear Body, as Low Kick is non-existent and it resists Grass Knot anyway.</p>
 
My bad I must have royally fucked up this time. Rock Slide doesn't 2HKO Bold Lugia either or Ho-Oh if it gets burnt:( Thanks for pointing that out.

Edit: Removed all Stone Edge mentions so if somebody notices anymore please point it out.
 
can probably beat Bold Lugia one on one also thanks to Lugia's inability to do much back along with the Attack raising nature of Meteor Mash
You can't really beat Lugia one-on-one because of Reflect, it will just outstall you with Pressure till you struggle or even Substitute stall. When Metagross gets greedy with Attack boosts, Lugia can always phaze it out.

Missing Giratina as an awesome counter thanks to Will-O-Wisp which is really all Giratina needs to screw up Metagross. CB Meteor Mash doesn't even 2HKO Giratina after SR. Thunder Punch 2HKOes most Kyogre.

Not sure about the Screens set because Bronzong seems superior to me. Explosion is much weaker now anyway. Grass Knot is Metagross's strongest attack against Groudon. Mention Mixed Rayquaza makes a fantastic partner for CB Metagross to destroy Groudon, Giratina and Skarmory. Easily 2HKOed is turned into getting walled easily when Lugia Reflects and Roost out.

Kyogre resists Meteor Mash while Specs Surf or Water Spout OHKOes guaranteed. Scald from bulky Kyogre 2HKOes. Metagross doesn't check Soul Dew Latios too well because Thunder can 2HKO you. Ferrothorn is a much better check. The best counter to Latios is not Metagross. Mention Ferrothorn as a counter to Metagross lacking Hammer Arm.

Palkia can at least check Metagross with Surf or Fire Blast depending on the weather while resisting Meteor Mash. Zekrom will 2HKO Metagross with Bolt Strike, only fearing Earthquake. Bronzong walls you too.
 
You should really fix up your format, its an eyesore at the moment. Anways on to the main point.

-To put it very bluntly, I think the Screens Support set is pretty bad. Why wouldnt I just run Bronzong like Trickroom stated ? It has better overall (mixed) bulk than Metagross and has Levitate giving it an immunity to Spikes+SR and Groudon cant do anything to Bronzong and stands the chance of being Toxiced. Its not that Zong cant dish out a hit either, Gyro Ball hits pretty hard, probably harder than Meteor Mash on most Pokemon. . So yeah, i think the Screens set needs to just say good bye.

-If the set stays at all, it would be much better off using Toxic or Stealth Rock in the last slot than Explosion. Explosion should be the last slash IMO.

Walled by Groudon but it still takes a massive hit from a Choice Band Meteor Mash
Um the sentence contradicts itself, you should probably fix it.

-Mention SR is necessary for the CB Set to function best. Without SR you lose to Lugia as well as Ho-Oh who resists every one of your moves. Even after SR Ho-Oh can live a CB Meteor Mash and OHKO with Sacred Fire. Or it can start Roosting and Pressure stall since with Lefties + Roost, it will heal easily, albeit at a slow rate. So Ho-Oh needs to be mentioned as a check. Victini can just kill you V-Create while fearing only EQ and Pursuit.

-Trick needs to be mentioned AC of CB since it screws up Skarmory, Ferrothorn and i dont think that is a gimmick.

-Also i think it should be mentioned that it is extremely prone to being trapped by Wobbuffet when using any move other than Meteor Mash.

Side Note: I'm kinda sad Trickroom missed it but Gyara absolutely laughs at Metagross with Intimidate, and resistance to all of Metagross's moves !!!
 

shrang

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Side Note: I'm kinda sad Trickroom missed it but Gyara absolutely laughs at Metagross with Intimidate, and resistance to all of Metagross's moves !!!
Metagross has Clear Body. Gyarados will look at Metagross and get "Intimidated", get what I mean? Don't goad him into it, you'll regret getting trickroom excited.

About the sets, CB is rightfully first. Good. I'm not too sure about the support set since you can use Bronzong and get pretty much better results (No EQ/Spikes weakness and by extension ability to check Extremekiller). If you really think support deserves a spot, I'd suggest just making it almost full support, with dual screens, SR/Toxic + Meteor Mash.

Have you tested out a Scarf set? Metagross misses out on Mewtwo, but can get a lot of other Pokemon, you can kill Rayquaza with Ice Punch, and "revenge" something like a 30% Extremekiller or something.

Also, consider Trick + Iron Ball. Tricking Iron Ball onto stuff like Lugia, Skarmory and Ho-Oh makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside, especially if you've got a ton of Spikes/Toxic Spikes up too. Even Tricking Ferrothorn is not a total loss, either, since you've just got rid of its Leftovers =D. Something like this (straight from 4th gen OU):

[SET]
name: Trick + Iron Ball
move 1: Trick
move 2: Meteor Mash
move 3: Earthquake
move 4: Ice Punch / Stealth Rock (filler)
item: Iron Ball
ability: Clear Body
nature: Adamant
evs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 SpD
 
Ok I'll make most of these changes and mention counters. Just a few things though
You should really fix up your format, its an eyesore at the moment.
How? Do you want me to put lots of flashy colors and bold everything? Jesus if anything it looks bland.
-I'll mention all the counters but I don't think a Choice Scarf set is good
You can't really beat Lugia one-on-one because of Reflect, it will just outstall you with Pressure till you struggle or even Substitute stall. When Metagross gets greedy with Attack boosts, Lugia can always phaze it out.
If it's one on one then there is no phazing, last pokemon don't get phazed.
-Shrang I like the trick ball set but I'd like some input from QC before I put it in.
Metagross is also walled by Skarmory
That was mentioned already. Please read it before you comment.
-Trick gets an AC mention sense it will miss it's band
-I don't have any problem taking down the support set sense I was debating it myself sense it still "works".
-Also when Latias reappears Metagross invests much more in Special Defense

Edit: Will test Trick Iron ball since it looks very promising.
 

Fireburn

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Not sure about Trick on CB because Groudon and Ho-Oh love to switch into Metagross, and you will cry if you Trick them a Band. Furthermore, you have to watch for Arceus, who is immune to Trick while holding a plate. It can be mentioned in AC for now, since Gross really likes the coverage its 4th move affords, but Trick can be useful if you play correctly.

Scarf Metagross is pretty much outclassed by Terrakion who revenges the same stuff and is faster, not to mention ScarfGross's Pursuit isn't strong enough to do much.

Trick + Iron Ball is probably worth testing, Iron Ball really screws over a lot of Ubers who rely on their Speed.
 
How? Do you want me to put lots of flashy colors and bold everything? Jesus if anything it looks bland.
No but at least use proper spacing and bold certain tags such as Additional Comments and stuff.
 

Moo

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Considered a Specially Defensive set? Metagross has nice reisistances, mainly Dragon and Psychic, and could make use of Pursuit. (although the lati twins aren't that popular, so maybe not pursuit)
 
No but at least use proper spacing and bold certain tags such as Additional Comments and stuff.
Alright done.

Trick Ball was alright but I found it a little weak and not beating Mewtwo annoyed me so I believe it only deserves an OO mention. As for Specially Defensive if you overly commit too much it becomes pathetically weak believe me and if you don't it's probably about the same as 252 HP 252 Atk.
 

Fireburn

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You might as well use Ferrothorn if you're going to run SDef Gross. You could mention a more defensive spread for the CBer, but that's about it really.
 

shrang

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Trick Ball was alright but I found it a little weak and not beating Mewtwo annoyed me so I believe it only deserves an OO mention.
You could always run some speed so you outspeed Mewtwo after you've Tricked it Iron Ball. Metagross needs 88 Speed EVs to outspeed a -2 Speed Mewtwo. I'll probably give it a test myself when I get some time and get back to you.
 
I didn't think Metagross could outspeed Timid Mewtwo. Anyway another bench mark you can hit is 220 which is 176 evs which gets Deo-A at -2. 88 Speed evs is nothing major though and allows you to still be bulky. Even if this doesn't deserve a set it will still get a big OO mention.
 
What about the good old agilgross
Not enough power in most of his attacks. Metagross needs to be Adamant to do some form of damage in Ubers, but he fails to outspeed common revenge-killers after an agility if using an Adamant nature.

Plus its outclassed by RPGroudon
 
I doubt its outclassed by RP Groudon. Metagross isn't harmed by Lugia's Toxic, Giratina-O without the sun, resists Ice and Dragon, has Meteor Mash to smack things like Giratina-O. Groudon has to pick between Dragon Claw or Fire Punch. Without Fire Punch, Grass Arceus owns you. Scarf Shaymin-S owns Adamant Groudon regardless of your moveset. Metagross has no problem dealing with those Grass-types because Meteor Mash will damage them hard. Shaymin-S is almost OHKO with SR. Attack boosts are bonuses.

Metagross can also end with a bang, despite the nerf it still packs a punch allowing it to OHKO things like Kyogre which Metagross and Groudon normally cannot KO in one hit.

Metagross walls the newest Mewtwo set which lacks Fire Blast at least from what I can see most are starting to use Ice Beam over Fire Blast. Metagross can come in on any of Mewtwo's attacks without Fire Blast and almost OHKO with Meteor Mash, or Agility first then kill. Metagross's immunity to Toxic Spikes means it isn't as weak to some stall teams although getting walled by Forretress sucks.

Oh yeah I am a fan of Metagross, so I might try it out first before stamping this. Ice Punch comes in handy to OHKO Garchomp and Rayquaza, both of which Groudon actually cannot OHKO without CB. As a bonus, Metagross can destroy Grass, Steel(without WoW), Ice(LOL), Mono attacking Dragon, Latias, Dialga in the rain and it isn't frail either.

Metagross pretty much check mates many Dragon-types such as Rayquaza, Zekrom and Garchomp if they are stuck on Outrage.
 
Breezing past to say that most defensive Arceus formes especially Ground and other types packing super effective moves or resistances can cripple Metagross with a fast WoW and thats the end of the game for it.
 
Breezing past to say that most defensive Arceus formes especially Ground and other types packing super effective moves or resistances can cripple Metagross with a fast WoW and thats the end of the game for it.
All physical attackers that aren't immune are crippled, that includes all Swords Dance Arceus, Groudon, Garchomp, Zekrom, Metagross and etc. Defensive Arceus can cripple them all permanently unless you have an Aromatherapy or Heal Bell user on the team.


Trickroom I'm surprised you like Metagross, from what I heard you were a heavy stall player. Anyway if an Agiligross did get included it really needs to emphasize it's advantages over Groudon because stat wise Groudon is far superior.
 
Heck Groudon outclasses lucario stat wise but he still got an analysis. Besides most of the flaws you people mentioned can be said about pretty much every physical attacker in the tier
 
Heck Groudon outclasses lucario stat wise but he still got an analysis. Besides most of the flaws you people mentioned can be said about pretty much every physical attacker in the tier
Technically Lucario has a higher Special Attack so it's not completely outclassed stat wise even if it never uses it's Special Attack. It has a significant amount of advantages over Groudon though such as absolute perfect coverage with it's 120 STAB Close Combat along with perfect coverage with Crunch , best priority in the game and more resistance to entry hazards (Stealth Rock and Toxic Spikes). Agility Metagross or Rock Polish if you prefer just doesn't work since it's either sacrificing Speed or power and can't hit important bench marks thanks to it's lack of Speed. It also can't hit or take it as well as Groudon and doesn't have the great coverage moves to run alongside Earthquake. Anyway no other Uber physical attacker lacks power without a Band or speed so I don't know how this applies to other physical attackers. The only thing I agree with there is that Metagross like all other physical attackers except for Fire-types can be crippled with burn.
 
I'm giving this a big ol bump. If QC wants me too add anything or change anything please tell and I'll do so ASAP.
 

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