Metronome Battles

Soon Baneful Bunker, Spotlight, Instruct, Beak Blast, Shell Trap, Fleur Cannon, Spectral Thief, Mind Blown, Plasma Fists, and Photon Geyser will all be removed from the Metronome pool to more accurately simulate USM. The lack of Mind Blown and Shell Trap especially, two super huge nukes, will be pretty nice for mons weak to fire.

Also wtf don't sacrifice your item or ability for perish song-proofing por favor. Just run min speed and pray. Not worth being so paranoid about tbh
 
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
- Metronome

Manaphy @ Starf Berry
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
- Metronome

How are these two? Still trying to decide on an item for Manaphy.
 
Jirachi @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
- Metronome

Manaphy @ Starf Berry
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Serious Nature
- Metronome

How are these two? Still trying to decide on an item for Manaphy.
Never use Scarf in Mrtronome Battles. You actually want to have minimum speed, because the slowest pokemon will win when all faint due to Perish Song.
 
i mean leppa berry + harvest ain't too bad
I personally wouldn't use it since it's rare enough for 16 turns to pass and Leppa to proc before the game ends. On top of that, Harvest isn't going to make that much of a difference since you have to use 10 more Metronomes to activate another Leppa.

In practice, unless your opponent is also using the same tactic, the game would end/they'll have gone to Struggle jail long before the 2nd Leppa even gets to activate, unless they get like a NVE multi turn move every single turn. You're probably better off with an ability/item that helps you beat the enemy faster.
 
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Never use Scarf in Mrtronome Battles. You actually want to have minimum speed, because the slowest pokemon will win when all faint due to Perish Song.
Oh, really? Huh. What move should I put on them then? Also would Specs Snorlax be good? I used that originally, but benched it for Manaphy because of bad speed.
 
Oh, really? Huh. What move should I put on them then? Also would Specs Snorlax be good? I used that originally, but benched it for Manaphy because of bad speed.
No. Snorlax has a very low SpA stat, so Specs would be a bad option. I used Band Snorlax for a bit so if you decide to use Snorlax again, maybe go for Band or Lum Berry. Not so much Weakness Policy because it only has 1 weakness so the odds of getting hit by a Fighting type attack is low compared to mons with multiple weaknesses. Also Snorlax's bad speed is a great thing because in the event of Perish Song, Snorlax will faint last the majority of the time since it's a very slow mon. Slower mons = last to faint in Perish Song, meaning victory.
 
Slow mons also mean fewer stat points wasted in Speed, so they tend to be bulkier and more powerful while fitting within the 600 BST constraints (one of the reasons Magearna was so dangerously min-maxed).
 
Slow mons also mean fewer stat points wasted in Speed, so they tend to be bulkier and more powerful while fitting within the 600 BST constraints (one of the reasons Magearna was so dangerously min-maxed).
That doesn't really matter since there is no stat limit in this format. You can run 252 EVs in all stats, so all mons are essentially "bulky", even normally frail ones like Genesect.
 
That doesn't really matter since there is no stat limit in this format. You can run 252 EVs in all stats, so all mons are essentially "bulky", even normally frail ones like Genesect.
They mean base stats, not EV distribution. For a basic example, a mon with 600 BST with 1 base Speed would probably be much better in Metronomes than a mon with 600 BST and 100 base Speed because of how the other stats would benefit.
 
That doesn't really matter since there is no stat limit in this format. You can run 252 EVs in all stats, so all mons are essentially "bulky", even normally frail ones like Genesect.
And bulkier ones hit harder. You're not really making a point here - what the person you're quoting was saying is that of the 600 BST, points in Speed are points that could've been in attack or defense stats instead.
 
If we're trying to be true to game mechanics with Metronome, then we should remove stuff from the meta that straight up does not exist in the games' programming. There's a reason the clarification was needed: common sense dictates that they shouldn't be allowed.

I find it really counter-intuitive that we're being rigidly true to game mechanics regarding Metronome's functionality, but taking a "everything's made up and the points don't matter" attitude regarding the banlist. It seems like the meta is being designed to be as maximally "lolrandom" as possible without requiring any changes to the simulator, and it's not at all obvious to me that that's what players who like the idea of Metronome battles want.

Personally, CAP bugs me a lot more than Pokestar Studios mons (which I still don't like, but I can tolerate them). Studios props at least exist in the games' programming (intentionally) and have defined stat blocks. You can look them up on Bulbapedia or easily find a full list on the simulator by just searching "pokestar" once you know they're a thing, and most of them have the same stat block so there's nothing to memorise. CAP lists are comparatively difficult to find and they are literally just custom things programmed for the simulator -- it feels no more natural to have them in this meta than it would if someone programmed custom stat blocks for Bowser and Optimus Prime as a joke and they were allowed.
 
If we're trying to be true to game mechanics with Metronome, then we should remove stuff from the meta that straight up does not exist in the games' programming. There's a reason the clarification was needed: common sense dictates that they shouldn't be allowed.

I find it really counter-intuitive that we're being rigidly true to game mechanics regarding Metronome's functionality, but taking a "everything's made up and the points don't matter" attitude regarding the banlist. It seems like the meta is being designed to be as maximally "lolrandom" as possible without requiring any changes to the simulator, and it's not at all obvious to me that that's what players who like the idea of Metronome battles want.

Personally, CAP bugs me a lot more than Pokestar Studios mons (which I still don't like, but I can tolerate them). Studios props at least exist in the games' programming (intentionally) and have defined stat blocks. You can look them up on Bulbapedia or easily find a full list on the simulator by just searching "pokestar" once you know they're a thing, and most of them have the same stat block so there's nothing to memorise. CAP lists are comparatively difficult to find and they are literally just custom things programmed for the simulator -- it feels no more natural to have them in this meta than it would if someone programmed custom stat blocks for Bowser and Optimus Prime as a joke and they were allowed.
CAP bugs me more than Pokestar studios as well, but I also don't like them. I do not like that fakemons were included. Metronome may be silly, but it is still a "Pokemon" meta, and I do feel like CAP and Pokestars belong, as they are not real pokemon(even though Pokestars are programmed in I still don't count them).
 
The thing is, Metronome battles use the current implementation of Metronome, which includes moves such as Accelerock and Zing Zap in the list of moves it can call. Pokestar props may be included in the data from previous games, but any game which has data for Pokestar Spirit does not have data for a move called Zing Zap, and vice versa, so that combination has never been capable of coexisting in any game, hackmons or otherwise.

On a side note, I did manage to get an in-game test, and can conclude that the Metronome item does not boost Metronome as a move, except perhaps if you get extremely lucky and roll the same move twice in a row. The test consisted of a L100 Snorlax with 230 Atk and 166 SpA spamming Metronome against E4 Kahili until I got a hit that could feasibly be checked for a difference. Ultimately, what I found was a Metronome roll that brought up Tri Attack against Toucannon, after the previous three Metronome moves had all been successful since the last failure, and Snorlax was at -2 SpA from taking a couple of Snarls from Mandibuzz. The hit appeared to deal about 1/3 of the health bar, consistent with this unboosted calc:
-2 0 SpA Snorlax Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Toucannon: 58-70 (28.8 - 34.8%) -- 10.4% chance to 3HKO
If Metronome had applied its boost, this being the 4th successful move in a row, it would have been about a 1.6x boost, which is roughly equivalent to changing Tri Attack to 128 power. That would have resulted in 93-111 (46.2 - 55.2%) as the damage, and it certainly didn't deal that much. So while Showdown may continue to let you boost with the namesake item for now, that behavior is demonstrably incorrect by current mechanics, and is liable to be fixed at any point.
 
The thing is, Metronome battles use the current implementation of Metronome, which includes moves such as Accelerock and Zing Zap in the list of moves it can call. Pokestar props may be included in the data from previous games, but any game which has data for Pokestar Spirit does not have data for a move called Zing Zap, and vice versa, so that combination has never been capable of coexisting in any game, hackmons or otherwise.

On a side note, I did manage to get an in-game test, and can conclude that the Metronome item does not boost Metronome as a move, except perhaps if you get extremely lucky and roll the same move twice in a row. The test consisted of a L100 Snorlax with 230 Atk and 166 SpA spamming Metronome against E4 Kahili until I got a hit that could feasibly be checked for a difference. Ultimately, what I found was a Metronome roll that brought up Tri Attack against Toucannon, after the previous three Metronome moves had all been successful since the last failure, and Snorlax was at -2 SpA from taking a couple of Snarls from Mandibuzz. The hit appeared to deal about 1/3 of the health bar, consistent with this unboosted calc:
-2 0 SpA Snorlax Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Toucannon: 58-70 (28.8 - 34.8%) -- 10.4% chance to 3HKO
If Metronome had applied its boost, this being the 4th successful move in a row, it would have been about a 1.6x boost, which is roughly equivalent to changing Tri Attack to 128 power. That would have resulted in 93-111 (46.2 - 55.2%) as the damage, and it certainly didn't deal that much. So while Showdown may continue to let you boost with the namesake item for now, that behavior is demonstrably incorrect by current mechanics, and is liable to be fixed at any point.
I had a hard time putting it into words, but you put it in a great way, Mystic. I may be wrong though, since I do not actually know about programming itself.
 
The thing is, Metronome battles use the current implementation of Metronome, which includes moves such as Accelerock and Zing Zap in the list of moves it can call. Pokestar props may be included in the data from previous games, but any game which has data for Pokestar Spirit does not have data for a move called Zing Zap, and vice versa, so that combination has never been capable of coexisting in any game, hackmons or otherwise.
This isn't a trivial point, either: before the Berserk Gene ban, teambuilding decisions were being made based on custom mechanics. For instance, people were using Own Tempo instead of Misty Surge, because Misty Surge took effect after Berserk Gene and thus didn't prevent the confusion side effect. Is this the case in the games? Who knows, because Abilities and Berserk Gene have never coexisted.

"Would this fly in Hackmons" seems like a good general basis for what should be allowed in this meta.
 
Mega scizor needs banned. It is overcentralized, and I've seen two people run turboblaze(moltres and heatran) for it. It has nothing countering it otherwise(it can hold mental herb or lum berry and just be an annoying unchecked support mon, and using it's counters put you at a huge disadvantage imo).
 

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