Metronome Battles

As soon as I knew this metagame and saw the item metronome wasn't banned, I started laddering with it. Indeed it does have the boost on the consecutive usage of the move metronome on PS!
Never thought it would be a bug since the Bulbapedia Chinese version says it works this way.
And I peaked the ladder after 56 games with the help of it and got an 80 GXE lol

And here are the teams I used. Some of them were inspired by what I saw on the ladder, and I spammed the first one the most.
=== [gen7metronomebattle] metro pokestar metro duel ===

Pokestar MT @ Metronome
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Metronome

Pokestar Spirit @ Metronome
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Metronome


=== [gen7metronomebattle] metro HO ===

Metagross @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Metronome

Pokestar Spirit @ Metronome
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Metronome


=== [gen7metronomebattle] metro wonder heat ===

wonder (Pokestar Spirit) @ Metronome
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Metronome

heat (Heatran) @ Metronome
Ability: Competitive
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
- Metronome


=== [gen7metronomebattle] metro flower veil ===

Ferrothorn @ Metronome
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

Necturna @ Metronome
Ability: Flower Veil
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome


=== [gen7metronomebattle] metro defensive metro ===

Pokestar Spirit @ Metronome
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Metronome

Scizor-Mega @ Metronome
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Metronome

Note that Magic Bounce + Metronome is not that recommended, as currently on PS! bouncing back a move will reset the counter of the item Metronome. So I stopped using the last one when I figured this out.

But when I found this post it seems that the implemented behavior could indeed be wrong. And yeah.
After all, this is indeed a bug according to the resident mechanics tester DaWoblefet.

[13:24:22] %DaWoblefet: ok I might want to make a post about this to organize the thoughts, but the results of the test (incomplete but I need to leave soon)
[13:25:06] %DaWoblefet: Koko in Electric Terrain Nature Power -> Nature Power -> Nature Power -> Thunderbolt -> Nature Power all received appropriate Metronome boosts
[13:25:51] @ MacChaeger: the 4th being tbolt directly?
[13:25:54] %DaWoblefet: yes
[13:26:22] %DaWoblefet: when I tried Metronome (the move) -> successive Metronomes
[13:26:35] %DaWoblefet: they all fell into the expected range of damage except for one attack
[13:26:51] %DaWoblefet: 0 Atk Mew Sky Drop vs. 244 HP / 124 Def Eviolite Porygon2: 15-18 (7.8 - 9.4%) -- possibly the worst move ever
[13:26:51] %DaWoblefet: (15, 15, 15, 15, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 16, 17, 17, 17, 17, 17, 18)
[13:26:56] %DaWoblefet: these are level 50
[13:27:00] %DaWoblefet: and Sky Drop did 19
[13:30:06] %DaWoblefet: I called Boomburst -> Sky Drop -> Dazzling Gleam -> Flail -> FeatherDance -> Double Kick -> Captivate -> Leech Seed -> Swallow -> Grass Knot
[13:31:56] @ MacChaeger: maybe 2 turn moves count the first turn as a use for metronome
[13:32:04] %DaWoblefet: that's my initial thought
[13:33:00] %DaWoblefet: https://pastebin.com/K6DeVfA2
So rip ig
 
2 turn moves counting first turn as a use for metronome is what I noticed on PS from noticing a Petal Dance doing more damage when first called and less on the next turns. I read the quote wrong, this also isn't the right behaviour

I guess currently the Metronome item is more helpful than Weakness Policy on mons that don't have many weak points as they can't exploit it as well, but it's a slow start and easy to lose. Though the boost not being a stat stage does mean it has some perks over Weakness Policy.
 
for now it's a good reason to ladd in metronome battle with metronome ;)
Oh, for sure. I've been doing it -- choice items' drawback of cancelling multi-turn moves is a pretty big deal that has cost me quite a few matches, and the boost from the Metronome item stacks up pretty quickly. The biggest drawback has been when you get paralyzed/confused/multi turn locked and the boost resets. On the whole, though, I've won so many matches because I just built to double damage and killed my opponent with hits that had no business dealing that amount of damage. And it's not like you need the full damage -- even building up to three consecutive uses gives a boost not much worse than choice items.
 
On a side note, I did manage to get an in-game test, and can conclude that the Metronome item does not boost Metronome as a move, except perhaps if you get extremely lucky and roll the same move twice in a row. The test consisted of a L100 Snorlax with 230 Atk and 166 SpA spamming Metronome against E4 Kahili until I got a hit that could feasibly be checked for a difference. Ultimately, what I found was a Metronome roll that brought up Tri Attack against Toucannon, after the previous three Metronome moves had all been successful since the last failure, and Snorlax was at -2 SpA from taking a couple of Snarls from Mandibuzz. The hit appeared to deal about 1/3 of the health bar, consistent with this unboosted calc:
-2 0 SpA Snorlax Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Toucannon: 58-70 (28.8 - 34.8%) -- 10.4% chance to 3HKO
If Metronome had applied its boost, this being the 4th successful move in a row, it would have been about a 1.6x boost, which is roughly equivalent to changing Tri Attack to 128 power. That would have resulted in 93-111 (46.2 - 55.2%) as the damage, and it certainly didn't deal that much. So while Showdown may continue to let you boost with the namesake item for now, that behavior is demonstrably incorrect by current mechanics, and is liable to be fixed at any point.
 
I didn't compared 2 move in a row I just calced on offensive moves after the fifth one (when it get to the max power) on showdown, did you used the showdown damage calculator to compare damages?

I calced the damages of the 4th move using metronome tri-attack with the same conditions you said in your post and damages matches these damages
-2 0 SpA Metronome Snorlax Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Toucannon: 68-79 (22.5 - 26.2%) -- not a KO
 
I calced the damages of the 4th move using metronome tri-attack with the same conditions you said in your post and damages matches these damages
-2 0 SpA Metronome Snorlax Tri Attack vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Toucannon: 68-79 (22.5 - 26.2%) -- not a KO
Don't use the damage calc to calc Metronome damage, it still uses the incorrect formula where it just adds a multiplier each time and stacks. It's not reliable. I think it's a very reasonable guess by now that Metronome is implemented incorrectly.

Also you are using a Level 100 Toucannon opponent while Kahili's Toucannon is much below that.

1525725905172.png


1525725961309.png
 
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you never said it was below level 100 the toucannon by the way so it explain why the results weren't clear for anyone that read your post

and I tested on showdown to know how it was coded in showdown but didn't know how it worked on console actually so it's fine you tested, maybe the code of the console replay on your post would help next time ;)
 
you never said it was below level 100 the toucannon by the way so it explain why the results weren't clear for anyone that read your post
He said he tested against Kahili's Toucannon. Also I said Metronome did boost Metronome a few pages ago but it was an offhand remark. Anyway hope this gets fixed soon for further accuracy, good to have multiple ingame tests confirming the true behaviour.
 
Just ran into two mega Abomasnows but it says Abomasite is banned...? (They had weakness policies. Just wondering if this is an error of some sort - or is it because mega evolving changes your ability to something that's banned?)

Also, Imposter Blissey is a fun meme if anyone wants to just screw around
 
Just ran into two mega Abomasnows but it says Abomasite is banned...? (They had weakness policies. Just wondering if this is an error of some sort - or is it because mega evolving changes your ability to something that's banned?)
Also, Imposter Blissey is a fun meme if anyone wants to just screw around
It's because vanilla Mega Evolution makes them Snow Warning, yeah.
 
hmmm imposter give you only 5 PP before struggle if you encounter strong physically offensive opponents yo could potentially struggle kill everything noice
Imposter Blissey almost always run Leppa berry, and even with the Leppa that's only 10pp overall. The sheer amount of HP can sometimes be worth it though.
 

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I haven't seen this noted anywhere, but it seems like the Metronome item is now banned on this ladder.
I was waiting for the hotpatch to announce it. Looks like it was done while I was working.
But yeah, the item Metronome's banned, since we need to fix the move Metronome first
 
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Any chance Imposter can be fixed to display correct stats? I've been running Imposter Blissey for a while and it's been bugged to show Blissey's base stats rather than the transformed stats.

http://puu.sh/AmdTG/de381e84a9.jpg example
No need for imposter to be """fixed""". This is to mirror ingame behaviour and prevent unneeded info leaks. The status screen in Pokemon only shows you your original stats, there's no way to see your real stats after Imposter or something like Power Split. Gen 7 introduced a new status screen on the touchscreen that gives you some more real info, but you don't actually see any stat values in there.
 
No need for imposter to be """fixed""". This is to mirror ingame behaviour and prevent unneeded info leaks. The status screen in Pokemon only shows you your original stats, there's no way to see your real stats after Imposter or something like Power Split. Gen 7 introduced a new status screen on the touchscreen that gives you some more real info, but you don't actually see any stat values in there.
Ah, right, forgot about that
 
So, I have been frustrated being unable to use mega pokemon that are just barely above 600 BST, and I believe I have come up with a way to nerf them enough that metronome battle will remain balanced and I can have a pokemon with 610 BST like the fabulous hair pokemon, Mega Ampharos, or the gigantic metal snake pokemon, Mega Steelix.

I believe there should be a rule for mega pokemon, mega pokemon 640 or below should be allowed, but they must be thrown out in their base form while holding their mega stone. This would give mega pokemon a stat advantage but removes any advantage they would gain from an item like weakness policy, choice band, or choice specs while also making them unable to benefit from any moves or abilities that benefit from item loss. Granted, if you went with this option, it would require a couple more bans on specific mons, but it would bring a lot more variation than the constant Pokestar Spirits, Celesteelas, and flash fire Mega Scizors.

A possibility for bans due to a certain ability, which I am imagining being similar to sturdy Shedinja's ban, you could possibly allow the base form of that pokemon to hold its mega stone so that it can't use the overpowered ability but can still be used.

Thank you for your consideration. If this is a bad idea, please tell me why this is a bad idea in your reply.
 
So the April usage stats came out, and along them came some Metronome stats. Spirit and Magearna are at the top as expected. These confirmed my suspicions that most people using vanilla mons didn't know they could do anything like Hackmons: there were high percentages of vanilla abilities and 510 EV sets. Megas often held their megastones as well.

Also Hardy nature + all 0 EVs appears really often, maybe the reason low ladder seems so much easier than high ladder fights is because there's that huge spike in stats.
 
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