Raidx
Banned deucer.
Maybe, but the confusing bit is Bide works w Metronome unlike Metal Burst. Idk if it works that way ingame, but if it does I guess it's just a weird mechanic on GF's part
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Format Discussion Metronome Battle
- Thread starter Ivy
- Start date
Raidx
Banned deucer.
Anyways here's another team I've had huge success w on the ladder, here's proof of my (nekoblush is an alt of mine) success:
Latios and Mega Mawile are a nice offensive duo due to their stats combined w their abilities. Tinted Lens on Latios takes advantage of the many Steels being commonly used (Celesteela, M-Scizor, Registeel, Metagross, Jirachi) by essentially hitting them for neutral damage with its STAB attacks (though Jirachi and Metagross are still 2x resistant to Psychic attacks) as well as stray Normal, Steel, Bug, etc attacks called from Metronome. Paired w Weakness Policy, a boosted Latios hits very hard even on the physical side, and essentially nothing resists any of it's moves called by Metronome at that point. Latios has a fair amount of bulk so it can reliably take a super-effective hit and survive with a decent amount of HP. Mega Mawile is such a sleeper mon imo; I've probably seen a total of 5 Mega Mawiles in during my metronoming. With Choice Band + Pixilate, M-Maw is able to consistently pressure the opponent with the sheer amount of Normal moves in the game, which are then turned into Fairy moves, boosted by 20% and then the Choice Band boost. Even Steel types take a good amount from a stray Normal type attack which is nice. Obviously the team is reliant on drawing good moves from Metronome (as with any true offensive team imo), so it's not a foolproof team in the slighest, but it works very well given the amount of success I've had on the ladder w it. Hope yall give it a shot and have fun!
(Also min speed on both mons because Perish Songis a broken fucking move and should be removed from all of Pokemon imo tbh js can fuck you over hard)
Latios and Mega Mawile are a nice offensive duo due to their stats combined w their abilities. Tinted Lens on Latios takes advantage of the many Steels being commonly used (Celesteela, M-Scizor, Registeel, Metagross, Jirachi) by essentially hitting them for neutral damage with its STAB attacks (though Jirachi and Metagross are still 2x resistant to Psychic attacks) as well as stray Normal, Steel, Bug, etc attacks called from Metronome. Paired w Weakness Policy, a boosted Latios hits very hard even on the physical side, and essentially nothing resists any of it's moves called by Metronome at that point. Latios has a fair amount of bulk so it can reliably take a super-effective hit and survive with a decent amount of HP. Mega Mawile is such a sleeper mon imo; I've probably seen a total of 5 Mega Mawiles in during my metronoming. With Choice Band + Pixilate, M-Maw is able to consistently pressure the opponent with the sheer amount of Normal moves in the game, which are then turned into Fairy moves, boosted by 20% and then the Choice Band boost. Even Steel types take a good amount from a stray Normal type attack which is nice. Obviously the team is reliant on drawing good moves from Metronome (as with any true offensive team imo), so it's not a foolproof team in the slighest, but it works very well given the amount of success I've had on the ladder w it. Hope yall give it a shot and have fun!
(Also min speed on both mons because Perish Song
Latios @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
Mawile-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
Ability: Tinted Lens
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
Mawile-Mega @ Choice Band
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome
The way Metal Burst is currently coded in PS! means that it never works as a called move. I know that you can't call Counter or Mirror Coat, and you can't use Me First on Metal Burst, but you can apparently use Assist, Copycat or Mirror Move on Metal Burst, so someone should try in the actual game to see whether it succeeds (obviously you need to test in a Doubles battle so that the two Metal Burst users have damage to reflect).
Raidx
Banned deucer.
Ridaz can I ask why the BST limit is 600? I mean I understand the though process behind it, but I've played thousands of matches and as someone who's had a solid amount of success and a good understanding of this "meta" I feel unbanning some Pokemon (megas) wouldn't be that detrimental to the format. I don't think BST alone is a good indicator of a balanced Pokemon (since I'm sure the BST limit is for balancing purposes), as we can use Banded Mega Heracross and Mega Scizor which imo are a lot more capable in this format than something like Mega Ampharos and Mega Sceptile (both of which are above 600 BST and are thus banned). Now of course some Mega Pokemon would most likely be ridiculous to unban such as Mega Metagross due to it's crazy good typing in combination with it's stat distribution, Mega Mewtwo X/Y because looool, and Mega Rayquaza is obviously out of the question, but I feel like removing these restrictions on some mons so we can gauge the true impact these mons have on the format is not a terrible idea.
Most likely broken Pokemon (Mega Mewtwo X/Y and Mega Rayquaza obviously omitted)
Mega Metagross (amazing typing, stat distrib, ability and item choices - Defiant Weakness Policy sounds super dumb)
Mega Salamence ( absurd stat distrib, ability and item choices - Defiant/Competitive/Aerilate + Weakness Policy/Choice Band/Specs/Lum Berry, the versatility of this thing + the aforementioned reasons would be most likely be very unhealthy for the format.
Mega Garchomp (absurd stat distrib, ability and item choices, mildly annoying typing with few weaknesses - Defiant/Magic Bounce + Choice Band/Lum Berry sounds frustrating on paper)
Mega Tyranitar ?? (absurd stat distrib, ability and item choices, though subpar typing with a plethera of weaknesses can either hold it back or make it ridiculous with Weakness Policy, so not sure how I feel about this mon)
Mega Swampert (amazing defensive stats, typing, Sap Sipper would make this very frustrating to face unless you're packing a Mold Breaker variant mon or land a lucky Toxic or something)
All other Mega Pokemon seem perfectly balanced in this, and it'd be great to be able to actually test these mons out on the ladder since as far as i know they were banned without any testing at all.
Most likely broken Pokemon (Mega Mewtwo X/Y and Mega Rayquaza obviously omitted)
Mega Metagross (amazing typing, stat distrib, ability and item choices - Defiant Weakness Policy sounds super dumb)
Mega Salamence ( absurd stat distrib, ability and item choices - Defiant/Competitive/Aerilate + Weakness Policy/Choice Band/Specs/Lum Berry, the versatility of this thing + the aforementioned reasons would be most likely be very unhealthy for the format.
Mega Garchomp (absurd stat distrib, ability and item choices, mildly annoying typing with few weaknesses - Defiant/Magic Bounce + Choice Band/Lum Berry sounds frustrating on paper)
Mega Tyranitar ?? (absurd stat distrib, ability and item choices, though subpar typing with a plethera of weaknesses can either hold it back or make it ridiculous with Weakness Policy, so not sure how I feel about this mon)
Mega Swampert (amazing defensive stats, typing, Sap Sipper would make this very frustrating to face unless you're packing a Mold Breaker variant mon or land a lucky Toxic or something)
All other Mega Pokemon seem perfectly balanced in this, and it'd be great to be able to actually test these mons out on the ladder since as far as i know they were banned without any testing at all.
While not every mon past the 600 BST threshold is OP, I feel like there are so many massive threats that a ton of mons would end up getting banned anyway. At the very least, mons we currently have now with one sky-high attacking stat (Sciz, Hera, Pin, Zam, Gar, Kart) have a pretty crappy Atk/SpA stat to compensate, and mixed mons with high offensive stats like Blace, Deo/Deo-A, and Phero have paper defenses (the only one that doesn't is Genesect, who I don't really see a whole lot of for some reason).
If we were to step over the 600 limit, I think 625 would be a good place to start. For that we'll get:
Mega Lucario
Mega Venusaur
Mega Ampharos
Mega Gallade
Mega Gardevoir
Mega Aerodactyl
Mega Steelix
Probably missed one somewhere
I feel like these mons would fit in nicely, however potential problem mons I can see are M-Luc (Steel typing, high mixed offenses of 145/140 with good bulk, can't be poisoned), and M-Venu (huge 80/123/120 bulk, good 100/122 offenses, can't be poisoned, would probably be very hard to take down on a Flower Veil team).
In the 630-640 range you start getting things like the M-Zards, M-Blaziken, M-Aggron, Ash Greninja, M-Gyarados, M-Sceptile, M-Swampert, etc some of which I feel would be a little too intense to suddenly bring into the meta, which is why I feel 625 would be a good starting point.
If we were to step over the 600 limit, I think 625 would be a good place to start. For that we'll get:
Mega Lucario
Mega Venusaur
Mega Ampharos
Mega Gallade
Mega Gardevoir
Mega Aerodactyl
Mega Steelix
I feel like these mons would fit in nicely, however potential problem mons I can see are M-Luc (Steel typing, high mixed offenses of 145/140 with good bulk, can't be poisoned), and M-Venu (huge 80/123/120 bulk, good 100/122 offenses, can't be poisoned, would probably be very hard to take down on a Flower Veil team).
In the 630-640 range you start getting things like the M-Zards, M-Blaziken, M-Aggron, Ash Greninja, M-Gyarados, M-Sceptile, M-Swampert, etc some of which I feel would be a little too intense to suddenly bring into the meta, which is why I feel 625 would be a good starting point.
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This meta existed in a very similar way, ever since the end of Gen 5, beginning of Gen 6, played with a smaller crowd. It was just never official as it is now. The 600 BST cap was there to block most megas, which were a reckoning force back then.
I'll think about increasing the BST cap a small bit, since a lot of new mons were introduced since then.
My suggestion is to lower the time limit on move selections. You can only use Metronome so there's no reason for anyone to need to take their time making a move. Metronome Battles should have the smallest time limit. But I think it's like 150 seconds, while VGC only has 60 seconds and they actually have to think about their moves unlike here. I'd suggest lowering it to a minute or 40 seconds.
I saw that team once, it's viable but I rekt it with my air ballon heatran + lando t set
That team doesn't actually exist (for its intended purpose) because of the AV ban, some people just seem to copy the mons + nicknames probably because it's on the first page.
Also I would say Levitate is a more reliable strat for Heatran since Air Balloon gets consumed really quickly.
True, what about harvest lum berry for lando t?
that's bad, getting statused isn't that common. it is better to get a real immunity or boost the offensive power.
This post reeks of Western privilege. Not everyone has the same internet quality you do and they shouldn't be forced to forfeit their games on a legitimate disconnect because of the country they live in.
What are some good Pokémon and sets to use in Metronome battles?
Well the last usage stat records are from April but they're mostly accurate aside from the bans. You have the steels for resists (Celesteela, Scizor, heatran, genesect), the min max attackers (heracross, gengar), maybe the balanced stats like the mythicals and the pokestars, and bulky picks like mega Slowbro from earlier in the thread that can get strong with Competitive + Weakness Policy. If you read this thread there are a lot of good sets around that made it big on ladder. Basically just use steels if you want to get good, or something else if you want to have fun with it. Typing is a big deal.
As for sets there's basically 2 sets you can run in metronome battles. Max speed for hitting first or min speed for perish song. For optimal ability you probably want one that makes you immune to a super effective type, preferably one that draws moves so you can multitask with the partner. Magic Bounce is very strong too and works on anything.
But in the end the real advice is: if you know that you can use any pokemon, any ability, and max out your EVs, you will be better than the people who are still using vanilla Mew and Snorlax on ladder. Anything goes once you learn that fact really.
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2018-04/moveset/gen7metronomebattle-0.txt
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Thanks man! That's really useful!
The big challenges for me are the optimal abilities and items to use. Like, which abilities would work best on which Pokemon? It may be easy for figuring out what types they should go to (Flash Fire goes to Steel, Scrappy goes to Normal, Corrosion goes to Poison and No Guard goes to Rock because the best Rock moves have a chance to miss), but it's hard to figure out what specific Pokemon they should go to. Do you have any advice?
As for items, it's kind of hard to know which ones to use. I could use a Lum Berry to remove status conditions, or I could use a berry to heal me or boost a stat. I could use Weakness Policy or maybe a Choice item. I could use a Life Orb to boost the damage output of all my attacks, but that has recoil damage unless I have Sheer Force, but is Sheer Force even worth it since it removes secondary effects and is it better to use over a different ability. You see what I mean?
I never realized how much strategy Metronome required.
I looked through the stats. Why do a lot of these have 0 EVs for some or all of the stats?
Some pokemon prefer to run minspeed for perish song/trick room, but otherwise it’s probably just negligence.
No no no man, the STAB barely matters (for teambuilding). As in the name it's just a bonus that's even harder to make use of effectively in Metronomes, so imo it shouldn't be a big factor in your ability or mon choice. It is great to get a STAB move in battle though.
Corrosion and No Guard will matter much less in most battles (unless you get OHKO'd) than an ability that gives you a full immunity to a ton of moves. Scrappy may be nice for taking on Sableye and other ghosts, but it's less worth it after the Pokestar Spirit ban. The best abilities on a pokemon are either a super defensive ability like Magic Bounce or the type immunities, or something to boost your offense like Defiant/Competitive. There's other ok ones like Tinted Lens, Mold Breaker, or the -ate abilities, but these are the most common and can provide the most effect if you're playing to win. Moves are a big deal. For specific mons you can just look at their type here. Scizor doesn't like fire so put on Flash Fire. Celesteela is flying type so you could have one with Delta Stream or Lightningrod or something to cover that up.
As for items, the healing items are banned so that's a start. You probably want a Choice item most of the time, as they provide a strong boost from the beginning with almost no drawbacks (just miss out on 2 turn moves). A Lum Berry/Mental Herb works if you want some minor protection from some crippling effects like poison or Taunt, or a Weakness Policy if your type has a lot of weaknesses and your mon can take the hits. If all else fails, a BrightPowder/Scope Lens/Quick Claw has a minor effect, but it's always going to be there. I feel the stat boosting berries would activate too late in the battle to make a strong effect, but you could have a fun comeback with a lucky Starf Berry proc. They aren't doing anything for a while though.
Now this is the optimal, tried and true advice that gets you to the top of the ladder reliably, or at least set yourself apart from the vanilla mons. The most important thing is to have fun with the meta, talk to random people on ladder, and use whatever and see if it works.
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Thank you so much! You have no idea how helpful this was!
I hear a lot about minimum speed for Perish Song. Why does minimum speed matter?
If every pokemon on the field is hit by perish song and every pokemon dies at the same time, the Pokemon that faints last will score the win. Minimum speed can let you get a win through this with some mons at minimum speed that can squeak past another (usually slower) mon that's at max speed. It's basically another way to increase your win percentage. Going before the opponent is also important, so it's a case by case basis. On high ladder you probably won't be able to outslow a Celesteela with a slow Mew or Shaymin since people are wise to the strat, but there's always a chance someone leaves their speed EVs full. If you're already incredibly slow like Mega Sableye, there's no harm in going slower since you aren't going before anyone anyway, and if you're very fast you shouldn't try to make yourself that much slower.
To sum it up this is just to protect yourself from 1 move making you lose and it may not work. I think this is why most people don't value speed that much. I personally run minimum speed on a regular Shaymin and just a -Speed nature on Shaymin Sky for the stat boost. Don't forget about the stats.
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Raidx
Banned deucer.
The slower mon faints last if Perish Song is called, so if you're the slowest mon you'll faint last, therefore winning the battle.
Also for me, Tinted Lens is one of the best abilities in this format as it invalidates Steel mons like Celesteela, Scizor and Registeel (which are some of the most common mons) as it turns resists into neutral damage. I've had a bunch of success with Weakness Policy Tinted Lens Latios since it's base 130 SpA makes any decently strong Special attack do a good deal of damage even before a boost.
Imo these are some of the best items and abilities available:
Items:
Weakness Policy
Choice Band/Specs (good power but makes multi-turn moves like Solar Beam fail the second turn)
Lum Berry
Power items (very niche but they halve speed so super slow mons are guaranteed to move last which is good for Perish shit)
Abilities:
Defiant
Competitive
Lightning Rod
Flash Fire (especially on Mega Scizor)
Storm Drain
Sap Sipper
Scrappy (not as useful as when Pokestar Spirit was around, but still decent for hitting ghosts like Mega Sableye and Dusknoir/clops w stray Normal and Fighting moves)
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Pixilate/Aerilate/Refridgerate/Galvanize
Mold Breaker/Turboblaze/Teravolt
etc...
So basically when it comes to items there's not that much room for creativity, but the available items are very useful so it's not terrible. There's more diversity when it comes to abilities though, so you can experiment with a bunch of different things
Also for me, Tinted Lens is one of the best abilities in this format as it invalidates Steel mons like Celesteela, Scizor and Registeel (which are some of the most common mons) as it turns resists into neutral damage. I've had a bunch of success with Weakness Policy Tinted Lens Latios since it's base 130 SpA makes any decently strong Special attack do a good deal of damage even before a boost.
Imo these are some of the best items and abilities available:
Items:
Weakness Policy
Choice Band/Specs (good power but makes multi-turn moves like Solar Beam fail the second turn)
Lum Berry
Power items (very niche but they halve speed so super slow mons are guaranteed to move last which is good for Perish shit)
Abilities:
Defiant
Competitive
Lightning Rod
Flash Fire (especially on Mega Scizor)
Storm Drain
Sap Sipper
Scrappy (not as useful as when Pokestar Spirit was around, but still decent for hitting ghosts like Mega Sableye and Dusknoir/clops w stray Normal and Fighting moves)
Magic Bounce
Magic Guard
Pixilate/Aerilate/Refridgerate/Galvanize
Mold Breaker/Turboblaze/Teravolt
etc...
So basically when it comes to items there's not that much room for creativity, but the available items are very useful so it's not terrible. There's more diversity when it comes to abilities though, so you can experiment with a bunch of different things
How are the Power items viable at all? If it's going last you want (rarely advantageous beyond perish song), they're outclassed by Lagging Tail.