PLEASE BRING METRONOME BATTLES BACK~~! THEY WERE MY FAVORITE KIND OF BATTLES! :(
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Format Discussion Metronome Battle
- Thread starter Ivy
- Start date
Yung Dramps
awesome gaming
PLEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAASEEEEEE DO ITTTTT
Dont spam the thread guys, I'll tag The Immortal about it since Ridaz retired.
So... is our demand getting answered or not? It's been over two weeks and there has been no response. HoeenHerro The Immortal
Thanks for the quick reply.
I would first like to point out that TI's reasoning makes no sense because it is contradictory. If smogon didn't allow "no skill metas" to be on ladder, why was metronome battles allowed in the ladder in the first place? Why is Battle Spot Special 15 allowed as a ladder format when it is even less skill based? (Tried out the meta, cursed body Gengar is the single most overpowered pokemon and most games are decided by who gets the cursed body proc first) Does a metagame necessarily HAVE to demonstrate players’ skill in battling, especially when there is popular demand to bring it back?
I personally think there is value in keeping metronome battles as a ladder format. Many people treat this meta as if it were some kind of joke RNG meta, but it really isn’t. While it is true that there is no skill involved in actually playing out the turns of the game, the focus of this meta is to build the most consistent and optimal team for winning, and teambuilding is a surprisingly large factor in this meta as I will demonstrate below. Basically, metronome battles is an extreme case of the law of large numbers. In a large sample of games, my luck and the opponent’s luck is evened out, and better teams would end up having a better W/L ratio or GXE. For example, in my main account, I have reached a W/L ratio of 269/106 and currently have a GXE of 81.3% (It was a bit higher before it started decaying due to how the Glicko system works). Do you think this would have been possible if metronome battles was truly a brainless RNG meta? Since the ladder statistics in metronome battles can still measure the effectiveness of the team the player is using, I do not believe that metronome battles is worthless as a ladder format.
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I don't see any problems with just re-releasing it as a ranked ladder like it was before, as it is just more satisfying to watch your elo go up and down as you play, but that could also work.
Don't you think that's exactly the reason why people like the format? It's just a tier where you can relax and have fun, if your opponent in randoms has Mega Mewtwo Y you can complain, but in metronome you can't really complain about anything.
can we at least have a chat room for this so that we can find online players easier??
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...s-contacting-upper-staff.3538721/post-6227636
Someone with an high rank must have the motivation or capable of an such an famous gamemode
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...s-contacting-upper-staff.3538721/post-6227636
Someone with an high rank must have the motivation or capable of an such an famous gamemode
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I would suggest asking the Random Battles room to host more tours there. I'll join you in that cause; they used to have a lot of Metronome tours. However, they don't like people asking for tours, so you would have to be subtle about it.
That's not nearly a good enough consolation, because you can't find some quick matches when you want to. I really do not see a reason why metronome battles should not be allowed back as a ladder format, because I see The Immortal's reasoning as invalid (as I have explained in above post) and there are CLEARLY plenty of people who want it back.
It seems like since Ridaz retired, there is not even someone in charge of this metagame. Hence why the demands are not being answered for 2 weeks again. Can we get a leader for this metagame ASAP? I do not know how this works, but I would like to recommend Flametix(doipy hooves) for the candidate since he is knowledgeable about the metagame and he has been contributing positively to the Smogon forums in the past.
I agree with fwqef that we should nominate Flametix.
Alright guys; spamming and threatening is not the right way to go if you want to prove that this should be back on the ladder. You should logically prove that it's not just a very vocal minority that wants it back. When the ladder was up, there wasn't much to innovate on. Even now after the steel ban, there hasn't been discussion on how to use the new toys at your disposal. You need to show that you guys are playing this meta because, from what I understood from the Random Battle staff, there aren't as many tours because people just don't have teams prepared for it. There's not much to manage over this meta (which is not an OM, as some people have been addressing it, hence why this is in this subforum)
Ouch. Your "demands" were seen, just denied by TI, but, I've made a commit to put it back on the ladder. It'll be unranked this time though
This should be your chance to show that this is just not not a fluke.
First of all, thank you so much for the news and I am very sorry if I offended you. Now, I would like to argue that bringing metronome back as a ranked ladder is better than bringing it back as an unranked ladder.
1. While you may argue that there is minimum skill involved and thus a ranked ladder is meaningless, ladder statistics are not worthless in metronome because it can reflect how successful a team is. Due to the law of large numbers, in a large sample of games, luck will be evened out and better teams would end up having a higher W/L record or GXE, even in a luck-infested game such as metronome. Secondly, if this is the reason why metronome is coming back as a unranked format, why is battle spot special 15 a ranked ladder format then? Because of these 2 reasons, I can confidently say that the above argument is invalid. You can read more about this in this post I made a while back.
2. It is more fun to play in a ranked ladder with Elo than unranked. Elo can act as a motivating force for many people to play the format, because it is fun to watch your rank go up and down and it is fun to compete with other players. You do not get that feeling in an unranked ladder. If I remember correctly, this is the reason why Elo was not removed from PS! even after GXE was implemented. It is simply more fun to have it rather than not have it, and I don’t see how this is different in metronome battles.
Thank you for reading this post, and I would appreciate it if bringing back metronome as a RANKED ladder format is taken into consideration.
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Thanks for the metronome. The battles have been decently active. I'm surprised people came back so quickly to be honest. (EDIT: Ladder feels the same. There's the vanilla metrognomers like Snorlax/Clefable/Mew, some using their favourites and a bit of the "meta"/strong strats like Flower Veil or megas. Haven't seen as much bulky Competitive/Defiant setup.)
As for meta talk and innovation, here's a funny team. Metronome is a game of hax, and this team aims to embrace it by adding some random flinches to the game. I had 2 Mega Lucarios before, but now that's gone so I went for some other fast mons with high BST. It commits suboptimal stuff in the item and ability slot, but it's to get flinches.
Powersaves (Marshadow) @ King's Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
Happiness: 128
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hardy Nature
- Metronome
Game genie (Zeraora) @ King's Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
Happiness: 128
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quirky Nature
- Metronome
This team appreciates having speed, but in general with the steels gone and attacks doing more damage, higher speed/turn order could be slightly better in the current meta. It's still a dump stat for natures, base stats are better allocated elsewhere, and scarf won't be my first item choice, but in matchups with closer speed tiers, having speed investment could matter. The big thing about going first is the potential to kill something before it moves. Going last has its own advantage in winning Perish Song. In the end it all comes down to hax, but it's an option we can influence.
Also speculating on a possible Gen 8 Metronome Battle's mechanics. There's probably no manual mega-ing (can select in teambuilder anyway) or Z-moves (banned already). Dynamax seems available at any time for free. I wouldn't mind seeing something like Z-Metronome where it calls a random move and uses the max version, but it may just change Metronome to Max Guard and kill some turns. It'd run off the same PP counter too, so no PP stall strats. We'll see what happens when Gen 8 comes.
As for meta talk and innovation, here's a funny team. Metronome is a game of hax, and this team aims to embrace it by adding some random flinches to the game. I had 2 Mega Lucarios before, but now that's gone so I went for some other fast mons with high BST. It commits suboptimal stuff in the item and ability slot, but it's to get flinches.
Powersaves (Marshadow) @ King's Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
Happiness: 128
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hardy Nature
- Metronome
Game genie (Zeraora) @ King's Rock
Ability: Serene Grace
Happiness: 128
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quirky Nature
- Metronome
This team appreciates having speed, but in general with the steels gone and attacks doing more damage, higher speed/turn order could be slightly better in the current meta. It's still a dump stat for natures, base stats are better allocated elsewhere, and scarf won't be my first item choice, but in matchups with closer speed tiers, having speed investment could matter. The big thing about going first is the potential to kill something before it moves. Going last has its own advantage in winning Perish Song. In the end it all comes down to hax, but it's an option we can influence.
Also speculating on a possible Gen 8 Metronome Battle's mechanics. There's probably no manual mega-ing (can select in teambuilder anyway) or Z-moves (banned already). Dynamax seems available at any time for free. I wouldn't mind seeing something like Z-Metronome where it calls a random move and uses the max version, but it may just change Metronome to Max Guard and kill some turns. It'd run off the same PP counter too, so no PP stall strats. We'll see what happens when Gen 8 comes.
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Have you considered there wasn't discussion about how to use non-steel mons because the tier was removed from the ladder? And it's a given that people in the Randoms room don't have teams for it since they never have to make a team for any other randoms tier. I actually had a staff in that room tell me they don't do many Metronome tours because of the "focus on teambuilding". Anyway I'm extremely grateful that we have a ladder again, it's really what I look foward to when I go on showdown.
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There was a celebratory tournament in Random Battles room last night which was a nice opportunity to try out some of the new "top meta" choices. Both A Cake Wearing A Hat and myself ended up in finals with Flower Veil users, of which I'd say Mega Venusaur is probably a top choice thanks to its nice stat distribution utilizing the maximum allowed 625 BST. I partnered Mega Venusaur with a Grass/Ghost type, namely Necturna for its special bulk, but Dhelmise works fine too. On that, I used Thick Fat and Weakness Policy (since that still activates even on Thick Fat-neutralized SE hits), because only one Flower Veil user needs to be active at any time.
The team works nicely on ladder too. Sadly, I still see people there using Mega Stones, natural Abilities, or both. Defaulting to 252 EVs in all stats like with BH was a wonderful teambuilder change, but the "not-defaulting-to-mega-stone-item" feature from BH and the AAA feature to list all Abilities would be nice to include as well.
Neckbois get an honorable mention—just don't get touched by a stray Icy Wind!
The team works nicely on ladder too. Sadly, I still see people there using Mega Stones, natural Abilities, or both. Defaulting to 252 EVs in all stats like with BH was a wonderful teambuilder change, but the "not-defaulting-to-mega-stone-item" feature from BH and the AAA feature to list all Abilities would be nice to include as well.
Neckbois get an honorable mention—just don't get touched by a stray Icy Wind!
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Jerry the great
Banned deucer.
So uhh, I tried out this combination and it turned out to be scary, not for gimmicky stuff or stuff like that, but the sheer power of it, done it myself
Mega Heracross:
Ability: Magic Guard. Item: Life orb
Now think about that for a minute. A Pokémon with an attack stat of 185, boosted to even higher heights from life orb, and no recoil because magic guard. Magic Guard also prevents weather damage, toxic, ect from doing anything to it. Now, take it a step farther. Imagine Physical stab from this thing. Yup, that's right, it technically has a higher attack stat than Mewtwo X! With life orb boosts, even it's special attacks do solid damage!
This one has 100 in all stats, so it's bulkier and does some more damage with special attacks, but the sheer power in it's attack isn't as high.
Pokestar giant:
Ability and item: Same as mega Heracross's. A bulkier version of it that does a small portion of more damage with special attacks, but no sheer utter power from physical attacks, but still amazing.
I said Pokestar Giant, Because of that normal typing. That in this scenario makes such superior to the others, since it gets a higher chance of stab, and only one type does super effective damage: Fighting.
In other words, Magic Guard + Life orb is NOT to be scoffed at. Such a power level can be very deadly, and the deadliest of all is when you get stab. No recoil because magic guard, and it boosts your power to even higher heights. This seems, no, has been a bit OP.
Mega Heracross:
Ability: Magic Guard. Item: Life orb
Now think about that for a minute. A Pokémon with an attack stat of 185, boosted to even higher heights from life orb, and no recoil because magic guard. Magic Guard also prevents weather damage, toxic, ect from doing anything to it. Now, take it a step farther. Imagine Physical stab from this thing. Yup, that's right, it technically has a higher attack stat than Mewtwo X! With life orb boosts, even it's special attacks do solid damage!
This one has 100 in all stats, so it's bulkier and does some more damage with special attacks, but the sheer power in it's attack isn't as high.
Pokestar giant:
Ability and item: Same as mega Heracross's. A bulkier version of it that does a small portion of more damage with special attacks, but no sheer utter power from physical attacks, but still amazing.
I said Pokestar Giant, Because of that normal typing. That in this scenario makes such superior to the others, since it gets a higher chance of stab, and only one type does super effective damage: Fighting.
In other words, Magic Guard + Life orb is NOT to be scoffed at. Such a power level can be very deadly, and the deadliest of all is when you get stab. No recoil because magic guard, and it boosts your power to even higher heights. This seems, no, has been a bit OP.