Format Discussion Metronome Battle

[Jerry the great]

As nice as it is to roll Normal STAB reliably via Metronome, Ghost types are very common and arguably one of the best defensively with Steel's absence.

You could end up rolling a ghost or dark type move. You can land a move of any type you know

 

[doipy hooves]

Magic guard is a not bad ability. Passive damage is a real killer, basically guarantees your eventual death. Every time I get fire spinned for 50% I wish I have it, but on the other hand it's likely you can go a whole game without it mattering. Life Orb does make it more of an active effect though.

Normal does only have one type that it's weak to, but it also doesn't have many resists either, with just the one ghost immunity. Something to consider.

Another way to take advantage of the many Normal moves + take care of ghosts, is with the -ate abilities. They weren't great in the steel ages, basically being a sidegrade to Tinted Lens, but nowadays the tables have turned. Tinted Lens has much less resists to hit, and ghosts are more common than ever. Also Scrappy could work too, though it's more specific to busting ghosts.

This is a meme team that aims to stack a lot of boosts for a good chance to nuke something with Pixilate. Fairy hits Marshadow, Sableye, and dragons (Mega Ampharos) super effectively. It doesn't do so fine against some common poisons like Gengar and Venusaur, but some damage is better than none.

Hide

BOOM (Altaria) @ Altarianite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 128
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome

Another one (Audino-Mega) @ Bright Powder
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome

some Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-933246612 - Does 75% to a mega Ampharos with barrage x3 at +1
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-935302234 - Frustration kills damaged Marshadow
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-936011310 - kills Sableye t1 with 3x Fury Swipes (+1)

I believe sacrificing the item slot on Altaria is worth it, since it lets me Download boost and mega into Pixilate straight from turn 1. It's like having Band or Specs, but without the 2 turn restriction. I put a BrightPowder on Audino just for fun. With healing gone, defensive item choices are limited. There's Lum berry and Mental herb for status guarding, the defensive stat berries, and Focus band/BrightPowder for hax strats.

 

[Jerry the great]

Magic guard is a not bad ability. Passive damage is a real killer, basically guarantees your eventual death. Every time I get fire spinned for 50% I wish I have it, but on the other hand it's likely you can go a whole game without it mattering. Life Orb does make it more of an active effect though.

Normal does only have one type that it's weak to, but it also doesn't have many resists either, with just the one ghost immunity. Something to consider.

Another way to take advantage of the many Normal moves + take care of ghosts, is with the -ate abilities. They weren't great in the steel ages, basically being a sidegrade to Tinted Lens, but nowadays the tables have turned. Tinted Lens has much less resists to hit, and ghosts are more common than ever. Also Scrappy could work too, though it's more specific to busting ghosts.

This is a meme team that aims to stack a lot of boosts for a good chance to nuke something with Pixilate. Fairy hits Marshadow, Sableye, and dragons (Mega Ampharos) super effectively. It doesn't do so fine against some common poisons like Gengar and Venusaur, but some damage is better than none.

Hide

BOOM (Altaria) @ Altarianite
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 128
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome

Another one (Audino-Mega) @ Bright Powder
Ability: Fairy Aura
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome

some Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-933246612 - Does 75% to a mega Ampharos with barrage x3
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-935302234 - Frustration kills damaged Marshadow

I believe sacrificing the item slot on Altaria is worth it, since it lets me Download boost and mega into Pixilate straight from turn 1. It's like having Band or Specs, but without the 2 turn restriction. I put a BrightPowder on Audino just for fun. With healing gone, defensive item choices are limited. There's Lum berry and Mental herb for status guarding, the defensive stat berries, and Focus band/BrightPowder for hax strats.

Alright, this comment will have two parts to it.

Part one: Agree man. Passive damage or recoil can be very scary in metronome battles. But when you have magic guard, there is no need to worry! And yup, another good thing about normal types is that normally you have 0 clue what their ability is most of the time! So sometimes, you wonder "does that thing have something that can harm my ghosts?" Or "can that thing be semi immune to tricks such as status?" And yeah, that adds on more to Pokestar giant!

Part 2: Yeah, abilities that make an entire type of move while scenario specific, can be very deadly when you do get a move of that type. I mean, doing 75% to Mega Ampharos with barrage is impressive. And bright powder on defensive Pokemon in a format where the move you get is random (aka this format) is honestly awesome.

 

[Feria-Aeris]

So with the return of Mets comes the return of me clicking one button hundreds of times and nearly tearing my hair out in sheer pain because NO DON'T EXPLODE!

Having said that... I've decided to mess around with an Ability that it seems nobody's using. Namely, Analytic. It gives you a 30% power boost when moving last, and I must say that I'm impressed.

This team started as a theme team - "Landlubbers" - about three months back. I thought to myself, Mega Camerupt is slow as all hell. And then I thought, eyy, free power boost with Analytic, let's do it!

Originally, I ran Megarupt alongside a Storm Drain Miltank, but Miltank's purpose - to sponge hits - didn't work out all too well. Before I could really fix it, though, Mets went off the ladder.

Now it's back, though, so I dusted off the team and decided to rework it. The first thing was to swap Miltank out for a much bulkier Pokemon - after a few minutes of scrolling through stats, I chose Cresselia, because its 120/120/130 bulk is nothing to laugh at, and it can hit pretty decently, too. As for Cress's item, I didn't really give it too much thought and went for just a Leppa Berry, although I suppose one could toss a Choice Specs, an Expert Belt or even a Weakness Policy on. She runs a Quiet nature to boost her SpAtk to a decent 273 while not compromising her bulk, although you can also go Gentle for a SpDef monster or Bold for more balanced defensive stats.

Another idea, but probably not good for this team - Rattled Cress with WP. I should try it out sometime...

Mega Camerupt originally ran Choice Specs because special attacker what do you expect, but after suffering through too many turns wasted due to Solar Beams/Blades and Shadow Forces (others as well, but those are especially horrible to miss a turn on), I swapped it out for Wise Glasses. You could also go for a Weakness Policy and change Cress's ability to Pixilate for a more damage-oriented team, but, since Cammy has a really bad problem with water, I left it at a more defensive team. After all, I've reasoned that the more hits you can take, the more Mets you can fire off. Cammy's nature is Brave to boost her Attack to almost equal her SpAtk, which I find preferable because it's Metronome and it's random yay! You can also try out Quiet to go full SpAtk or Relaxed/Sassy to bulk up a bit more.

And thus, Heatwaves has been born. With this team, I've won... well, I don't know, I've played maybe 50 battles with it and I've won at least 40, it feels like. But I know it's really sweet.

TL;DR: Analytic Megarupt + Storm Drain Cress = Very Good™

Here's the team as I run it! Again, feel free to swap it up. c:

Slow Burn (Camerupt-Mega) (F) @ Wise Glasses
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

Lunar Dance (Cresselia) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Storm Drain
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Metronome

EDIT: Here's a replay that I particularly enjoyed of the team: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-936300004

 

[fwqef]

I realized I haven't made a good meta post since my rants about bringing back metronome, so here I am again. I have been experimenting with double friend guard recently, as it is a very non-situational ability that can help your team out in almost any situation and can bring unparalleled stability to your team. I figured Guzzlord was the best candidate for the bulky stat-booster archetype that always worked well in metronome, because of its good bulk, decent mixed offenses, and weakness in fighting which lets it easily proc weakness policy. I am also experimenting with Ampharos-mega because it can throw off very strong special attacks and decent physical attacks while having solid typing and bulk.

Here are some replays of friend guard in work:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-932642740
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-932648012
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-932656449

Teams:
Double Friend Guard Guzzlord
Double Friend Guard Ampharos
Good ol' Double Defiant Guzzlord
Sturdy Shedinja - Props to FIametix for the fun idea

Some other potentially good mons are Altaria-mega and Pokestar UFO because of their all-around good stats and amazing typing. Mega Sableye has one of the best type combinations possible but its raw stats are too low, making it a poorer choice than I anticipated. Also, there is no doubt that flower veil Mega Venusaur is a top tier build.

btw let's bring back ranked format please

 

[Feria-Aeris]

Sturdy Shedinja - Props to FIametix for the fun idea

This took me like... 40 battles to pull off? XD I went for a Sticky Barb Diglett instead of the Life Orb Black Belt, but, well, here is PoA Sturdinja in action: http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-937103158
Half the time, Shedinja ended up dying first. The other half, when PoA kicked in, I got either burned or poisoned or recoilmoved or Shedinja decided "wELL iF iT iSN'T a fINE dAY tO sET uP hAIL!"
So yeah, don't ban this, it's really, REALLY hard to pull off. You're welcome.

 

[Feria-Aeris]

So I'm back, and I've tested out Rattled WP Cress. She does not disappoint. I've paired her with a Pixilate Expert Belt Cress and holy cow they are a duo.

Let's not talk too much this time, though - here's the team.

Dark Side (Cresselia) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Rattled
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome

Light Side (Cresselia) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Metronome

And here's a replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-936580432

 

[Ieki]

I can't say I care about the format being ranked or not, but at least a ranked ladder would decrease the odds I come across people who I can tell don't understand the format based on their teams.

I'm thankful for the steel ban since now there's more creativity in building than Scizor+Scizor or Scizor+Celesteela, that was way too boring.

Wishiwashi is fun, shame about the HP stat but it's offenses and typing are amazing. I haven't used Pokestar-UFO that much but it's always been used a bit even back in the Spirit/Magearna days so I think it may be worth exploring some more now that there's less competition in teambuilding. (I've used Delta Stream but I guess it could be an Aerialte user as well, but given the amount of Sableyes I've been seeing a fairy with pixilate seems to be the best -ate user right now.)

 

[fwqef]

I can't say I care about the format being ranked or not, but at least a ranked ladder would decrease the odds I come across people who I can tell don't understand the format based on their teams.

I'm thankful for the steel ban since now there's more creativity in building than Scizor+Scizor or Scizor+Celesteela, that was way too boring.

Wishiwashi is fun, shame about the HP stat but it's offenses and typing are amazing. I haven't used Pokestar-UFO that much but it's always been used a bit even back in the Spirit/Magearna days so I think it may be worth exploring some more now that there's less competition in teambuilding. (I've used Delta Stream but I guess it could be an Aerialte user as well, but given the amount of Sableyes I've been seeing a fairy with pixilate seems to be the best -ate user right now.)

First of all, someone finally realizes that a ladder format will be more beneficial

Secondly, -ate abilities are theoretically better off now with steel type bans, but I found it to be still pretty bad compared to like defiant because it does not proc very often and even if it does, it’s not very rewarding. It makes you better off against ghosts but the rest is meh.

I think flame body/static/poison point might be worth testing but it’s pretty useless against flower veil so idk.

 

[Criminalko]

Maybe this gamemode could be renamed to "Magic Bounce".

Played 51 games today and 40/51 (= 78%) players had at least one Pokemon with Magic Bounce.

For me, this was a fun gamemode, which was mostly based on luck. With Magic Bounce, a lot of that 'luck' and 'fun' has been taken away. Lots of surprising and fun attacks get immedeately bounced back. It turned again into a competitive gamemode, where everyone uses the same things over and over again.

Ah well, a ban will never be possible, I guess?

 

[fwqef]

Maybe this gamemode could be renamed to "Magic Bounce".

Played 51 games today and 40/51 (= 78%) players had at least one Pokemon with Magic Bounce.

For me, this was a fun gamemode, which was mostly based on luck. With Magic Bounce, a lot of that 'luck' and 'fun' has been taken away. Lots of surprising and fun attacks get immedeately bounced back. It turned again into a competitive gamemode, where everyone uses the same things over and over again.

Ah well, a ban will never be possible, I guess?

Some abilities are better than others, so some abilities will always be used more than others. If you have a problem with that, go play chess not mons.

Also, It’s super easily countered by defiant/competitive. If the opponent bounces back your debuff, you can gain +2 atk of +2 spa per 1 debuff.

 

[cirhrad]

What are good users of Mold breaker and Magic bounce?

 

[Neolancer]

Off the current topic but I think we need to ban Friend Guard. Just taking 25% less damage for the trade off not using any other ability (the most popular ones involving status moves, which only make up around 35% of the move pool) on either Pokemon just seems inherently OP. Think of it akin to TF2's Darwin's Danger Shield before its rework.

 

[doipy hooves]

So I'm back, and I've tested out Rattled WP Cress. She does not disappoint. I've paired her with a Pixilate Expert Belt Cress and holy cow they are a duo.

Let's not talk too much this time, though - here's the team.

Dark Side (Cresselia) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Rattled
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome

Light Side (Cresselia) @ Expert Belt
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Metronome

And here's a replay: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7metronomebattle-936580432

Nice team. Cresselia looks like a viable Steel alternative for a bulky statboost build. I like seeing the underused/unique choices in these sets because it makes me think. Rattled gets Cresselia to 403 speed with a neutral nature and 363 without, so you'll outspeed most in the meta. Still, it isn't a sure thing since it relies on the enemy's Metronome while Speed Boost guarantees that blazing speed high and more. There's still some nice scenarios that may happen, like getting hit and countering with full boosts, then continuing to fight while outspeeding.

Expert Belt is something else I didn't really consider before. No drawbacks and works for both physical/special, but it's like a reverse Weakness Policy condition with a worse boost. Multipliers work better with high damage (already unreliable to get) but the maximized bulk on mons doesn't help its case. I guess Cresselia works since it's kind of mixed and bulky enough so it might live long enough to proc. While writing this I had an epiphany that the Expert Belt in this meta is a lot like Scope Lens in utility, and I think that Scope Lens would actually be better on average. (Update: I found a crit team on the ladder, can't really judge it though)

Sidenote: I tried using 2 Cresselia in niche stall/wall teams with Harvest/Pickup for a while. It wasn't the best team for winning, but it was decent at not losing. I wonder how well it tanks with Friend Guard.

Wishiwashi is fun, shame about the HP stat but it's offenses and typing are amazing. I haven't used Pokestar-UFO that much but it's always been used a bit even back in the Spirit/Magearna days so I think it may be worth exploring some more now that there's less competition in teambuilding. (I've used Delta Stream but I guess it could be an Aerialte user as well, but given the amount of Sableyes I've been seeing a fairy with pixilate seems to be the best -ate user right now.)

UFO's well rounded stats and typing are nice. Wishiwashi almost offsets its HP with its defenses too, but I think it's a bit worse at taking hits than a 100/100/100 spread. Delta Stream is probably the better option there, shame it changes the effectiveness so you can't use Weakness Policy with it. Aerilate might work best against Marshadow but then again Pixilate hits that as well.

Secondly, -ate abilities are theoretically better off now with steel type bans, but I found it to be still pretty bad compared to like defiant because it does not proc very often and even if it does, it’s not very rewarding. It makes you better off against ghosts but the rest is meh.

I think flame body/static/poison point might be worth testing but it’s pretty useless against flower veil so idk.

I haven't experimented much with them either outside of Pixilate. The -ates really need investment, like STAB and the right targets to hit with limited type choices as is. If there was a Dark or Ghost -ate or something just to hit the popular type in the meta I can see it having more of a use, though with a possible tradeoff of hitting more resistances. I guess Galvanize almost fit the part back with Steels but Lightningrod Celesteela or whatever was a thing and it was just not worth using.
The move choices aren't too balanced either, most -ated moves will be physical. Scrappy probably works well enough against ghosts too, hits them neutrally and you get more chances to hit with Fighting moves.

I remember a guy who used 2 Flame Body Registeels back in the day. Flower Veil did neutralize the strategy but it procced surprisingly often otherwise iirc. Poison Point is also theoretically better off without steels around but I haven't seen any users, though I have seen Poison Touch used. Flame Body does have the edge of nerfing Attack though. I think both are better than Static because of guaranteed damage and the paralysis might make them Struggle later.

Maybe this gamemode could be renamed to "Magic Bounce".

Played 51 games today and 40/51 (= 78%) players had at least one Pokemon with Magic Bounce.

For me, this was a fun gamemode, which was mostly based on luck. With Magic Bounce, a lot of that 'luck' and 'fun' has been taken away. Lots of surprising and fun attacks get immedeately bounced back. It turned again into a competitive gamemode, where everyone uses the same things over and over again.

Ah well, a ban will never be possible, I guess?

No doubt about it. Magic Bounce is a centralizing ability that almost anything uses effectively, but there's some ways to swerve around it. You can directly counter and make the battle 'even' with Mold Breaker/Mummy, use a defensive ability like Full Metal Body/Flower Veil (turn still wasted), or take Defiant/Competitive for a more offensive counter like fwqef said.

In the end most people take the easy way in and run Magic Bounce themselves and then you have a dynamic where any landing status moves are all coming from the self. Hell you can even run two Magic Bouncers, get Growled and copy it back twice to get -2 Atk on both enemies all from 1 move by the opponent. Of course there's even the chance it doesn't even make a difference in the game and you still have the damaging move aspect of the game to think about, which is where the Friend Guard camp stands.

Personally I like to use dumb strats but Magic Bounce is no joke, I would call it the default ability for the meta if you don't already have a strat in mind. I do see other abilities being used, but if ladder was back I think Magic Bounce or Defiant/Competitive would rise back to the top again. I'd bet even if it didn't/only bounced Taunt/Torment/Disable away or had a Truant effect, it'd still be a thing.

This is a relevant part for my thoughts on Gen 8 abilities. Neutralizing Gas has a very strong effect on the whole field. It's like Mummy but more convenient, but it's also tied to a Pokemon like Delta Stream so you can remove it. Comatose may pair well depending on how it works. Cancelling itself out might be considered too, but either way I don't think it'll be taken for granted. Mirror Armor seems interesting, it's like better Clear Body or a sidegrade for Magic Bounce. A bit worse in that it could be more fruitful for Defiant and it doesn't defend against the likes of Taunt.

Some abilities are better than others, so some abilities will always be used more than others. If you have a problem with that, go play chess not mons.

Chess is a bad example to use here actually. The important aspects of both like teambuilding focus and RNG are easy to apply between the formats, though the ability meta differs slightly. Imposter is still a force to be reckoned with and Tinted Lens is hardly used. On the other hand, Illusion is almost game breaking especially when playing on table. It's a centralizing maneuver that defines the pace of the game before it even starts, even with rook always forced in the last slot.

What are good users of Mold breaker and Magic bounce?

Try using a Pokestar/a high BST mon/yer favourite. They're both generally good abilities that mesh well with anything.

Magic Bounce: If you can take a hit you can live to bounce another day. To make the most of it you'd think you want to use something bulky like Sableye/Snorlax/Cresselia, but even a powerhouse would appreciate not being crippled. Though the real power comes from stat boosts and strong moves at this point.

Mold Breaker: Nowadays there are less immunity abilities around, but it still lets your status moves break through Magic Bounce and Flower Veil. Apparently it ignores Friend Guard too.

Off the current topic but I think we need to ban Friend Guard. Just taking 25% less damage for the trade off not using any other ability (the most popular ones involving status moves, which only make up around 35% of the move pool) on either Pokemon just seems inherently OP. Think of it akin to TF2's Darwin's Danger Shield before its rework.

Friend Guard is Powerful but I don't think it's broken enough for a ban. It reminds me of steels being more defensive than everything else, but on a smaller scale. At least it's not like Flower Veil and you have to have both mons use it to get full benefit, but I've seen that devoting one slot to support can help even Farfetch'd survive a bit. Maybe Wishiwashi could benefit from the support too? There's the tried and true like Eviolite Dusclops, or the Weakness Policy route where you can possibly kill. I think status is still something to consider with the forced Struggles, debuffs, and passive damage that puts you on a countdown. I guess living longer is good in general since you can avoid 2v1s and such. Every turn you don't die gives you more chances to do something and chance is the name of the game.

-----

So you can select your Hidden Power type through the teambuilder now, more convenient than before. The default Dark/Ice is probably still the best option and it's not a major decision to make. Neither is happiness I guess.

Hopefully Gen 8 revitalizes this format. Dynamax/Gigantamax seem to be a purely defensive option for the meta. Shame Max Moves and their doubles effects can't be used, but the new items and abilities could be interesting. Also new Pokemon, it'll be nice to see a new viable clump of mons. Can't be worse than Let's Go.

Other than that I haven't been active that much recently. Been trying some experimental ideas like Kee Berry Harvest or Silvally-Ghost. I've wanted to try Hoopa but nothing specific really comes to mind. Cheers to everyone still fighting the good fight, you can find a battle at practically anytime and there's always something new to see.

 

[Ridaz]

Ivy is now in charge of Metronome Battles. Go bother him

Remember that this is just a fun clicking random battle format. Just get out there and have some fun

Peace out

 

[GeniusMike]

Okay so I just played this format for the first time in Arceus knows how long, and at the end of the battle I noticed there was no ladder update. I know for a fact this format used to have ELO ratings on the ladder on the main server. I even checked my ratings page to make sure and sure enough “gen7metronomebattle” was right on there. So what gives? When did the format do away with ratings? I get that it’s mostly luck based but there’s still some strategy involved due to Pokemon, item and ability choices, so if it was removed on the grounds of it being a luck based format then that’s just silly, especially with having gone to such lengths to try to make a balanced metagame by banning things ranging from healing items to an entire Pokemon type

 

[Raidx]

Can we add Imposter to the list of banned abilities? When you face double Imposter Blissey you should might as well leave turn 1 since Blissey is a fat fuck and unless you can pull like Imprison, Taunt or hope they pull a self-KO move you're basically gonna lose. Since Blissey keeps its HP stat after transforming it literally becomes your mon but better in every single way and Blissey takes very little damage from everything except the strongest of moves while it doesn't have to rely on super strong moves to beat you. There's basically nothing you can do except hope you get Imprison or pull constant powerful moves. It ruins the fun and imo isn't healthy whatsoever. I've faced dozens upon dozens of Blisseys with multiple different teams recentlyvand I'm confident I've only won no more than 5 matches. Can we please do something about this piece of shit mon

 

[Ivy]

Can we add Imposter to the list of banned abilities? When you face double Imposter Blissey you should might as well leave turn 1 since Blissey is a fat fuck and unless you can pull like Imprison, Taunt or hope they pull a self-KO move you're basically gonna lose. Since Blissey keeps its HP stat after transforming it literally becomes your mon but better in every single way and Blissey takes very little damage from everything except the strongest of moves while it doesn't have to rely on super strong moves to beat you. There's basically nothing you can do except hope you get Imprison or pull constant powerful moves. It ruins the fun and imo isn't healthy whatsoever. I've faced dozens upon dozens of Blisseys with multiple different teams recentlyvand I'm confident I've only won no more than 5 matches. Can we please do something about this piece of shit mon

With Leppa, they have a maximum of 10 total Metronome turns. Though the HP left over does often leave some Struggle room. The matchup is definitely more favorable if you bring a stallish team of your own.

 

[fwqef]

Can we please get ranked ladder back on this format please. I already stated why it is more beneficial to have metronome as a ranked format, yet the previous leader was too obstinate to even listen to me. Hopefully this will change. Here are my previous posts about this:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metronome-battles.3632075/post-8161746
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metronome-battles.3632075/post-8143340

TLDR Basically the reasoning is that even if metronome battles is a “no skill metagame”, there are no downsides of making it a ranked format and it can actually be beneficial for the meta.

Ivy PLEASE read these posts and consider bringing metronome battles back as a ranked ladder format.

 

[Jerry the great]

Okay so I just played this format for the first time in Arceus knows how long, and at the end of the battle I noticed there was no ladder update. I know for a fact this format used to have ELO ratings on the ladder on the main server. I even checked my ratings page to make sure and sure enough “gen7metronomebattle” was right on there. So what gives? When did the format do away with ratings? I get that it’s mostly luck based but there’s still some strategy involved due to Pokemon, item and ability choices, so if it was removed on the grounds of it being a luck based format then that’s just silly, especially with having gone to such lengths to try to make a balanced metagame by banning things ranging from healing items to an entire Pokemon type

Reason why it isn't a ladder format is because...

TLDR Basically the reasoning is that even if metronome battles is a “no skill metagame”

Although I do somewhat disagree, it's not MY reasoning so don't question me

 

[Raidx]

One more thing; can we do away with the BST cap and base bans on something else? Stat distribution is more important than BST imo. Mega Heracross for example is one of the best mons not because of its BST, but because of it's ridiculous stat distribution. Mega Venusaur is also a legal mon with a pretty absurd stat distribution and is clearly better than a lot of banned megas. There are plenty of banned mons that wouldn't be unhealthy in away since a lot of them have fair stat spreads but since they're above 625 BST they're just flat out banned. Can we please change this? Also typing is also a factor but i don't feel any type combo bar Steel is broken in anyway Ivy

 

[Ivy]

Can we please get ranked ladder back on this format please. I already stated why it is more beneficial to have metronome as a ranked format, yet the previous leader was too obstinate to even listen to me. Hopefully this will change. Here are my previous posts about this:
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metronome-battles.3632075/post-8161746
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metronome-battles.3632075/post-8143340

TLDR Basically the reasoning is that even if metronome battles is a “no skill metagame”, there are no downsides of making it a ranked format and it can actually be beneficial for the meta.
Ivy PLEASE read these posts and consider bringing metronome battles back as a ranked ladder format.

There are plans to make all formats on PS have ranked, unranked, and blitz ladder options available at some point. Not going to try to get the actual ladder changed back in the meantime, though.

One more thing; can we do away with the BST cap and base bans on something else? Stat distribution is more important than BST imo. Mega Heracross for example is one of the best mons not because of its BST, but because of it's ridiculous stat distribution. Mega Venusaur is also a legal mon with a pretty absurd stat distribution and is clearly better than a lot of banned megas. There are plenty of banned mons that wouldn't be unhealthy in away since a lot of them have fair stat spreads but since they're above 625 BST they're just flat out banned. Can we please change this? Also typing is also a factor but i don't feel any type combo bar Steel is broken in anyway Ivy

The BST ban is a quick and objective way to put a simple cap on things; I do agree that low-speed-high-stats 'mons get a sizeable advantage in that case. If someone can actually come up with a better way to categorize it then I'm all ears, but this system has been fine for the longest time and short of something really weird for this context like "regular OU/Ubers banlist" I can't think of anything.

 

[doipy hooves]

"Change is never easy, and it often creates discord, but when people come together for the good of humanity and the Earth, we can accomplish great things." -David Suzuki

Long responses

Ivy is now in charge of Metronome Battles. Go bother him

Remember that this is just a fun clicking random battle format. Just get out there and have some fun

Peace out

Thank you for the support over the years Ridaz. The hubbub recently has been about the matchup and ladder but let's not take for granted all the other molding this metagame went through, which now feels like mere short days ago. Sure there was the minor stuff like Shell Bell or Battle Bond that got fixed up quick but there was the stuff decided by the community, like Berserk Gene early on. Back then games were fresh enough and fast enough to gain experience and discuss . Results like that, Magearna, Spirit, Steel types/Melmetal, they spoke for themselves and people spoke for them too.

I was indifferent on the ladder thing and didn't think it'd come back tbh. Though I talked to fwqef about Gen 8, digimons, and theories and pasta, I still wasn't actually playing the game or even posting after a change in the world. This is what I meant by 'resolve' earlier. I personally think if steels were gone but ladder stayed, it'd still be on a countdown, well past its ripened phase and tossed before the new generation if the silent killer didn't get em first. Then came the fleeting loudcomers, united to this common goal and somehow bought a second chance for the metagame and the words from that post hit true to the touch. Personally I agreed that there was a vocal minority at the time but I realize it was not in the way I mean (elaborated below). From what little I could grasp I guess it was a generous move to bring it back even after however it was denialed and I thank you for thinking for the peuple.​

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"It takes a human to make a decision" - Pewdiepie (Plato, The Republic)​

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You were also right about a leader not really doing much here, so I didn't expect this either but it makes sense, leader experience and plays the game already. GOOD luck have fun Ivy.

As for your final statement⋮ At this point, one could say getting here was half the fun…. all the gg and bg and forfeits in the lea. Even when push came to fall I suppose I could've made some schedules and challenged my friends until it got old but I suppose the fun for me is the part where you find a random stranger, maybe speak from the mind, and interact with the RNG for a moment or two, a lot like the Pokemon Showdown! but with less thinking (good an'd bad). Anyway I think that people have fun in different ways and the existence of endless battle clause just shows how far ppl can be driven to on this internet. But I think a lot of the appeal of Metronome was the random fighting/ladder grinds and thus the tryhard meta talk/All the Talk slowed to a crawl after that. Even other non ladder games can be played on the regular with the tournaments and what have you. Metronome was like a worm in the rain left for dead with only a penny to its name. That's the nature of things I suppose.

Well, either way that was that and over now and we have the Metronome battle back today and you've already checked out of here. Is [this] a fluke? I don't know; it's Metronome and idk what I am saying. But I'd rather win or lose within 16~ turns than wait to 1000 and hit an endless battle clause lol.

tl;dr Ridaz I respect you for tolerating this thread. Have fun in retirement

Okay so I just played this format for the first time in Arceus knows how long, and at the end of the battle I noticed there was no ladder update. I know for a fact this format used to have ELO ratings on the ladder on the main server. I even checked my ratings page to make sure and sure enough “gen7metronomebattle” was right on there. So what gives? When did the format do away with ratings? I get that it’s mostly luck based but there’s still some strategy involved due to Pokemon, item and ability choices, so if it was removed on the grounds of it being a luck based format then that’s just silly, especially with having gone to such lengths to try to make a balanced metagame by banning things ranging from healing items to an entire Pokemon type

Can we please get ranked ladder back on this format please. I already stated why it is more beneficial to have metronome as a ranked format, yet the previous leader was too obstinate to even listen to me. Hopefully this will change. Here are my previous posts about this:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metronome-battles.3632075/post-8161746
https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/metronome-battles.3632075/post-8143340

TLDR Basically the reasoning is that even if metronome battles is a “no skill metagame”, there are no downsides of making it a ranked format and it can actually be beneficial for the meta.

Ivy PLEASE read these posts and consider bringing metronome battles back as a ranked ladder format.

Reason why it isn't a ladder format is because...

Although I do somewhat disagree, it's not MY reasoning so don't question me

"We must reinvent a future free of blinders so that we can choose from real options." -David Suzuki

There's a boon to having an unranked ladder at the least: you can find battles more often now, and more varied than before in the high meta. Still I can't speak for what the meta would look like nowadays but Ivy's Flower Veil tournament anecdote seems relevant. Also the 252 EV change allows these humble thumpers to really compete with the optimal teams and bridge the gap just a bit more. Roaming around these metronomes without prejudice really opened my eyes. Back in the days of the ladder, at best I thought of the low elo guys as nice people to talk to and help out, and at worst I was on a downward spiral and everyone looked like just enough ELO to level up. Anyway even though they have these options available they still choose to use their Mews, Mega Gengars, Togepis and what have you. They're the real silent majority of this format and they're having fun just fine without even needing to read the thread or tryhard or demand it back and I see them every day. I even took my own medicine and made a team with my favourites, azumarill and articuno, just for fun and it went pretty good. If I were to put it in words it's like the people that play Pokemon for fun () and choose something like Random Battle, they dont know how to play they just play. The metronome ladder may not be the biggest or even the smallest on PS, but you can count on it to be there and I think that the unranked compromise was a very nice way to work it out. I guess we still lack knowledge of the ultimate meta strats and the ladder grinders could offer input there but for now one bridge crossed is worth two in the bush.

tl;dr The people using vanilla mons are actually good.

One more thing; can we do away with the BST cap and base bans on something else? Stat distribution is more important than BST imo. Mega Heracross for example is one of the best mons not because of its BST, but because of it's ridiculous stat distribution. Mega Venusaur is also a legal mon with a pretty absurd stat distribution and is clearly better than a lot of banned megas. There are plenty of banned mons that wouldn't be unhealthy in away since a lot of them have fair stat spreads but since they're above 625 BST they're just flat out banned. Can we please change this? Also typing is also a factor but i don't feel any type combo bar Steel is broken in anyway Ivy

I like the idea of adding new mons but it would be hard to decide an alternative filter. First thing that came to my mind was a questionable "unban of the month". Another 'eh' idea was just ignoring speed and having a speedless BST cap?

RE: Imposter
Just run illusion... ez counter

There are plans to make all formats on PS have ranked, unranked, and blitz ladder options available at some point. Not going to try to get the actual ladder changed back in the meantime, though.

This post popped up when I came back to writing this. Sounds like a good plan for the future and would settle the pleas. I wonder if it'd spread the ladder a little thin though but I guess we'd have to wait for the details. Blitz seems nice for metronome at first but I like reading the log and talking in chat so I might not use it. Thanks for the info.

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As for requests, I mainly think Normalium Z deserves an unban. I don't think it's that overpowered and it's a unique offensive option. The payoff can range from nothing (for status moves) to a nice power boost, and it (optionally) adds a degree of choice to the game. Hopefully Z-moves still work when Gen 8 comes around, maybe it'll be like the unused gems.

Speaking of offense, in the past I thought Protean and Parental Bond were pretty bad at a glance. Without steels around they might be too good though. There was that one time Kangaskhanite was free, but the stone ban is more from a blanket ban on the ability. No hard thoughts here.

Other than that idk, maybe Desolate Land and Primordial Sea? Healing/harming abilities are fine banned imo. Even Battle Bond is probably underpowered though it's technically under the BST ban.

 

[fwqef]

I am glad that this thread is active again. Here are my opinions on some of the points made by other users.

Normalium Z: I think Normalium Z is not overpowered (at least in theory) and it should be unbanned as banning it unnecessarily removes fun from the game. Sure it is very powerful when you draw a 180 BP supereffective move from it, but it’s not like it’s gonna draw moves like that every time. It’s simply a one time boost of whatever move you are drawing, and I don’t think it’s overpowered compared to the other useful items like choice items, weakness policy, etc. I think the item fits well with the theme of metronome battles.

Desolate Land/Primordial Sea: I don’t think this ability is banworthy. It is a permanent 50% boost to Fire/Water moves and Immunity against Water/Fire. It might seem strong when the opponent happens to block your super effective moves with the immunity and retaliate with a boosted STAB, but that does not happen very often. What I’m trying to say is that the ability is pretty situational. Sure, it’s an impactful ability that can also support a teammate on the field, but I don’t think it comes even close to the other banned abilities like Cursed Body and Protean. If this is unbanned, I think we can expect to see a wider variety of sun/rain teams.

Imposter: This can be very good against frail and hard hitting mons, but the limited pp and having no item makes up for the huge health imo. Imposter is not that good against the bulky mons in the tier, especially the bulky weakness policy archetype. Also, this ability is rendered useless if the imposter is unable to use leppa berry because of bug bite, knock off, thief, magician ability, embargo, etc which happens more often than you think. I think this ability is fairly balanced.

Speedless BST: I agree that speed hardly matters in metronome battles. High speed can be useful in clutch situations, but it is also useful to go slow sometimes because of perish song fainting mons in order of higher speed, slow core enforcer neutralizing both of the opponent’s abilities, and being able to hit the opponent after they proc your weakness policy.
However, just know that very few pokemon will be added to the meta because there are actually so little pokemon that exceed the BST limit because of their high speed. The only example I could find was mewtwo and ash greninja, which have 130 speed and 134 speed. This change will mostly result in bans to pokemon with gargantuan stats in every stat except speed (Ampharos-mega, Guzzlord, Venusaur-mega, etc) which are probably justified, but I will be very sad lol.

And now for my own idea: I suggest we unban snow warning. This ability may seem overpowered since it guarantees chip on the opponent, but the only users who can use it effectively are ice type pokemon because they are the only mons who are not affected by hail. Ice is a god awful defensive typing, which makes ice type pokemon nearly unviable in this meta. I think this ability can make ice types more usable, thus bringing more variety to metronome battles.

Lastly, I am glad that metronome is going to come back as a ranked format some day

 

[lighthouse64]

Here's a metronome battle team I thought of. It utilizes flower veil and ghosts since they are both very strong in this metagame. This set uses dhelmise instead of necturna for lower speed. I also decided to set hidden power for an extra chance at stab attacks.

Dhelmise @ Bright Powder
Ability: Flash Fire
Hidden Power: Grass
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

Venusaur-Mega @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Flower Veil
Shiny: Yes
Hidden Power: Poison
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Metronome