Format Discussion Metronome Battle

Yes and yes.

Agree, Dry Skin should just be banned entirely. Admittedly Honedge would probably not be overpowered on its own but it's easier to just group it in with all Steel/Ghost-types. Weathers that deal consistent damage every turn i.e. sand are against the spirit of the meta. Primordial Sea and Desolate Land, while they don't deal passive damage, were ruled too OP due to the ability to nullify Fire or Water attacks entirely.
The one valid complex ban I can see is Sturdinja, but even that will die to a stray Clamp, poison, Struggle, etc.
Can we talk about a potential Desolate Land and Primordial sea unban? I think I mentioned this a little in a previous post but I highly doubt it’s as strong as the best abilities in the metagame like defiant, competitive, and magic bounce. Yes, they do nullify fire and water moves completely, but if that’s the only reason it got banned, I don’t think it should be.

Let’s look into Desolate Land for example. Why would you choose this ability?
1. To cover up a water weakness on your fire type team
2. To boost the fire pokemon’s STABs.
3. And unlike flash fire, it benefits both of your pokemon!
Wow, all of these benefits in just one ability slot? So overpowered right? Well actually, there’s a logical fallacy to this, because Desolate Land can benefit your opponent’s pokemon as well. The above claim only points out how your team can benefit from the ability. DesoLand can prevent your Mega Camerupt from getting hit from a hydro pump, but the same applies to the opponent’s Sandaconda. It can boost your fire attacks, but it will also boost the opponent’s sizably, even if your fire pokemon resist it. In the worst case scenario, you will be bringing Desolate Land into a 4 fire pokemon battle and you just lost your ability slot. While I won’t deny that most of the time the ability will help your team slightly more, you just can’t ignore the fact that the weather will also help your opponent sometimes.

And obviously the same will apply for Primordial Sea. I wrote all this because I like weather and want to see some cool weather strategies on the ladder. How do you guys feel about the primal abilities?

TL;DR Primal abilities should be unbanned because it benefits your opponents too so it’s actually not that strong
 
What exactly happens when you mega evolve mega pokemon? And btw ban normalium z, it's just too broken for a healthy environment like this
 
What exactly happens when you mega evolve mega pokemon? And btw ban normalium z, it's just too broken for a healthy environment like this
You get the original ability of the mega pokemon. So yeah it’s kinda bad lol.
Strongly disagree with the normalium z part, in my experience it doesn’t make a big impact most of the time.
 
Can we talk about a potential Desolate Land and Primordial sea unban? I think I mentioned this a little in a previous post but I highly doubt it’s as strong as the best abilities in the metagame like defiant, competitive, and magic bounce. Yes, they do nullify fire and water moves completely, but if that’s the only reason it got banned, I don’t think it should be.

Let’s look into Desolate Land for example. Why would you choose this ability?
1. To cover up a water weakness on your fire type team
2. To boost the fire pokemon’s STABs.
3. And unlike flash fire, it benefits both of your pokemon!
Wow, all of these benefits in just one ability slot? So overpowered right? Well actually, there’s a logical fallacy to this, because Desolate Land can benefit your opponent’s pokemon as well. The above claim only points out how your team can benefit from the ability. DesoLand can prevent your Mega Camerupt from getting hit from a hydro pump, but the same applies to the opponent’s Sandaconda. It can boost your fire attacks, but it will also boost the opponent’s sizably, even if your fire pokemon resist it. In the worst case scenario, you will be bringing Desolate Land into a 4 fire pokemon battle and you just lost your ability slot. While I won’t deny that most of the time the ability will help your team slightly more, you just can’t ignore the fact that the weather will also help your opponent sometimes.

And obviously the same will apply for Primordial Sea. I wrote all this because I like weather and want to see some cool weather strategies on the ladder. How do you guys feel about the primal abilities?

TL;DR Primal abilities should be unbanned because it benefits your opponents too so it’s actually not that strong
Also, if you just want water immunity, you can go for an arguably better ability than desolate land in Storm Drain, since it boosts the special attack of the user, and sotrm drain is good but far from top tier or broken.

Another great use of this abilities is to trigger weather related abilities like Solar Power and Harvest.
 
I am proud to announce the return of [Gen 8] Metronome Battle to the rated ladder alongside the monthly formats update. The game looks to be completely different with the new effect of Metronome always failing, and I believe I've found the blueprints to a winning strategy in this new meta.

Stall Lord (Shuckle) @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome

killguy (Marowak-Alola) @ Thick Club
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Metronome

With Truant, Shuckle is able to last for 32 turns before expending all its PP, and the Leppa Berry will help keep it going even further beyond. Neutralizing Gas and Unnerve may be viable counterplay, but the meta is still developing as I type. Minimum speed is likely viable to be able to Struggle/recoil last in the turn.
Watch Shuckle in action: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1106833999

EDIT:
The year is 20XX. Everyone plays Metronome Battle at TAS levels of perfection. Because of this, the winner of a match depends solely on speed ties. The Rock Paper Scissors metagame has evolved to ridiculous levels due to it being the only remaining factor to decide matches. Humanity has reached its pinnacle.

Shuckle vs Shuckle x59: https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1106846175 - Unnerve is bad

An interesting snapshot of the ladder. For the record, I forfeited the innocent. Unfortunate coincidence that the move breaks at the same point the ladder is added. Worked this morning for what it's worth. Probably worth another post when Metronome is more game to game and hopefully less of a sullen affair.
1588356653535.png
 
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https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1106902393
ok yeah after this funny time over
e:
1588359093412.png

my peak, ima forfeit my way down when i can
Regirock @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Harvest
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Spe
- Metronome

Regirock @ Leppa Berry
Ability: Truant
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 30 HP / 0 Spe
- Metronome
 
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At this point, Metronome Battle is truly back in action. Kudos to that Harvest strat approaching infinity. Ladder to the limit; if we surpass 10k [battles], the ladder stays.

Apparently we've gone from having no moves, to calling every move (in Gen 8). I witnessed a Mirror Coat and Plasma Fists rolled in my first real ranked game, and there's even a bug report about Struggle. I won't complain about more variety while it lasts.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107136086 - Game in question + 2 turn 1 mementos. Damn
EDIT:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107139881 - Game 2. Destroyed by trick
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107140591 - Game 3: Taunt/Torment turn 1 and Spotlight gets called. I believe this means snapped moves from Gen 8 are included as well.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107142540 - Game 5: Interesting Quash, Focus Punch op
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107143487 - 6: Switcheroo into opponent's Simple + my Weakness Policy
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107145084 - Fast game, hold hands. The ladder has surpassed 500, about 8 games up
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107146125 - Very close and chaotic game. This is the reason why I play Metronome Battle.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107148890 - Transform
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107148249 - annoying dual STAB start
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107150261 - Crafty Shield
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107153725 - Insane boosting
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107154530 - dumb start moves
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107156195 - Nice guy, Belch usable, rolled perish against dynamax... unfortunate
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107158041 - silent Endure, another suicide
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107158607 - The clutchest Max Guard to block Eternabeam/Outrage
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107160003 - bullying triple paralyze miltank with Rollout
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107161298 - A clean match for once
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107162048 - Minimize and STAB OP
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107164250 - mew beatdown
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107164713 - nature power callception
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107165776 - Solo skymin boosts
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107166731 - Natural Landmin buffs
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107169525 - op defence, 2 in a row
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107170768 - Close casual challenge
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1107175182 - superomniboost into Topsy Turvy. Rigged game, not even the same day anymore I'm out

EDIT 2:
The RNG feels different/more rigged than before, though that may just be me and recency bias. Even with an expanded movepool, I feel like I'm seeing more suicide moves and OHKO hits. Miscellaneous Simple boosts are happening more often as well.
I have to admit that I expected more people, but it feels like the ladder is diluted into the same group of ranked players and the past unranked players just aren't around. Pretty weird. Maybe there was merit in having it unranked, or it's just too recent to tell at this point. Only time will tell. At least you can tell who's challenging and who's not.
 
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:ss/pikachu-starter: :ss/deoxys-defense:
Kiddo. (Pikachu-Starter) @ Light Ball
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome
^ MEME IMPOSTER. For some reason, Ivy decided that this would be Meme-ish. This can take down "some" pokemon in a few hits, normally doing some decent damage.
Dad (Deoxys-Defense) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome
^ Meant to be a Pokemon that will bounce everything back. Includes Stat Changes, Toxic, and other things. This may also do some damage when reflected with Toxic.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1112246539 (Nice Self-Destruct.)
Gonna do more replays later.
 
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Ivy

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The only thing Pikachu should be doing is imposter with light ball (even that's a meme), and Raichu is essentially non-existent. Cute, though!
 
What's are some good slow attackers with the ability to Dynamax?
Hard to answer because the good attackers are usually megas or have high speed. Some I can think of are Volcanion, Snorlax, Conkeldurr, Dhelmise, Decidueye, and Necturna for flower veil, both Marowaks. I’ve never seen anyone use Hoopa but it could be interesting.
 
I've been laddering recently (gotta do my part to hit 10k games this month) and I've taken a liking to Wishiwashi.

Silverfish (Wishiwashi-School) @ Zoom Lens
Ability: Lightning Rod
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome


Goldfish (Wishiwashi-School) @ Zoom Lens
Ability: Sap Sipper
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

The low HP sucks, but the huge defenses bring it to around 90/90/90 bulk, and that bulk is complemented by almost all super effective attacks being absorbed. It's got great power on both physical and special attacks, which are again complemented by the boosts from Lightning Rod and Sap Sipper. And it's slow as molasses, allowing it to win Perish Song games and dodge turn-one Spites, as well as abuse Zoom Lens, which lets it keep Rollout trains going and not care as much about accuracy drops and evasion boosts.
 
:ss/pikachu:
Kiddo. (Pikachu) @ Light Ball
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- Metronome
^ MEME IMPOSTER. For some reason, Ivy decided that this would be Meme-ish. This can take down "some" pokemon in a few hits, normally doing some decent damage.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1111726847 (Managed to get some things off.)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1111733027 (This moment was way too lucky, managed to live both Pokemon with very low HP.)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1111735000 (One of the actually good battles.)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1111736163 (Forfeit, knew he was gonna die anyway.)
Pikachu-Starter is slightly better for the job by having 45 HP over 35 and higher BST in general. I personally find it great for combat.

What's are some good slow attackers with the ability to Dynamax?
Diancie would work, though it's more of a bulky statbooster.
 

Ivy

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Good point with the two LGPE exclusives. They ARE allowed, just not shown in the teambuilder. Kris if you have a spare moment to update that.

The biggest issue with the Imposterchus is that you can't even run a Leppa. However, thanks to the doubled Attack, Struggles can do a pretty decent chunk, especially if you copy a hyper-offense team with the likes of Mega Heracross and Mega Banette.
 

dhelmise

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Good point with the two LGPE exclusives. They ARE allowed, just not shown in the teambuilder. Kris if you have a spare moment to update that.

The biggest issue with the Imposterchus is that you can't even run a Leppa. However, thanks to the doubled Attack, Struggles can do a pretty decent chunk, especially if you copy a hyper-offense team with the likes of Mega Heracross and Mega Banette.
The teambuilder is already fixed. It will be live when the teambuilder gets reloaded by an admin.
 
here's a team i've been using since november 2019 apparently. i've tweaked stats and natures on both of them (going between quiet and brave, speed ivs etc) but the main idea is the same.
Dragapult (F) @ Normalium Z
Ability: Comatose
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Quiet Nature
- Metronome

Dusclops (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Neutralizing Gas
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

2 ghost types for the immunity to a lot of the metronome moves. dragapult's mostly there to look pretty and occasionally hit hard (ive been experimenting w/ weakness policy instead of norm z), but dusclops puts in work too. i think its the slowest ghost type with the best defense (with eviolite bonus), so i win most perish song games. both girls cuz #girlboss or whatever
 
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Jerry the great

Banned deucer.
I swear, can someone please tell me why on mother fucking earth ghost types aren't banned in metronome battles?! They complained about desolate land and primordial sea being too problematic because they nullified fire/water respectively, right? Well guess what! Ghost types are immune to normal AND fighting, and by having another typing like Mega Sableye does, you can add another immunity! And they only have 2 weaknesses as well! And... Well if you actually played the meta, you know just how capable they can be. Especially considering you can run (almost) any ability you want on them.
 
I've found Pixilate quite nice. It bops Dark/Ghosts as well as Dragapult, and situationally increases your damage output even against neutral targets. The downside is mostly that you don't do quite as well against MVenu and the like, which is bearable.

Ghosts are definitely quite good, though. Being able to dodge the wide array of neutral hits (plus perks like having multiple OHKO moves automatically fail, forcing opponents to take HJK recoil, and denying moves like Octolock or Explosion) is very nice--enough to make running Ghost/Grass types worthwhile despite their being otherwise not great. (Dhelmise, for example, has decent attack, but drops very quickly to supereffective hits)
 
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Ivy

resident enigma
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributor
Among the -ate options, Aerilate helps against the grass teams and is particularly good against M-Hera spam. This counterplay against ghosts is very real in the -ates, but it's also extremely easy to just slap Neutralizing Gas on any teammate to counter that counter and level the game, which most high-rating teams do seem to focus on (we'll have our first glance at usage stats in only a few short weeks).
 
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