Format Discussion Metronome Battle

[Jerry the great]

Thanks for the tips to both of you, I'll try the -ate abilities soon

 

[fwqef]

I swear, can someone please tell me why on mother fucking earth ghost types aren't banned in metronome battles?! They complained about desolate land and primordial sea being too problematic because they nullified fire/water respectively, right? Well guess what! Ghost types are immune to normal AND fighting, and by having another typing like Mega Sableye does, you can add another immunity! And they only have 2 weaknesses as well! And... Well if you actually played the meta, you know just how capable they can be. Especially considering you can run (almost) any ability you want on them.

If you thought ghost types were bad, you should have seen the meta when steel types were free LOL. While I do agree that ghost types are pretty damn good, there are plenty of decently used mons that aren’t ghost types like Mega Heracross, Mega Ampharos, Mega Altaria, Mega Slowbro, Mega Venusaur, etc.

 

[Ivy]

I have seen somewhat of an uptick in anti-ghost sentiment lately. I don't want to blanket ban another entire type, though. What are people's thoughts on neutralizing gas? It obliterates any counterplay against ghosts like the -ates, and it can even be paired with Comatose on the Ngas user to have a functional ability while the foe likely has none.

 

[かたわれ時]

Was really irritating to face. Completely invalidated my Contrary/Defiant Team, so it was really a very narrow win.

 

[Jerry the great]

I have seen somewhat of an uptick in anti-ghost sentiment lately. I don't want to blanket ban another entire type, though. What are people's thoughts on neutralizing gas? It obliterates any counterplay against ghosts like the -ates, and it can even be paired with Comatose on the Ngas user to have a functional ability while the foe likely has none.

I mean, I honestly have a feeling that since no other type has nearly the amount of immunities and resistances along with only 2 weaknesses that can be made into an even worse scenario like Mega Sableye having 3 immunities, not lacking in resists, and one weakness, this might be the last type ban we may need. And like the guy above me said (can't type in Japanese sorry), if you was to have an ate ability or if you're like me and REALLY want to beat ghosts and have scrappy, well, they can just use neutralizing gas. I mean, we don't have to ban ghosts. They may be powerful yes, but it's very specific things like ghost/dark types and neutralizing gas that push em over the line for me. I'd either ban ghosts altogether, or ban ghost/dark types and neutralizing gas as well. But hey, I'm not staff of this format, just a guy who has done more than 350 metronome battles.

 

[fwqef]

I really thought Ngas (+comatose) was broken in the beginning and I was advocating for its ban but I came to realize that it’s actually not that broken. Sure, it does theoretically grant you a slight advantage against every team, but against low ladders who do not have proper abilities, you’re just better off having actual good abilities like defiant/competitive, magic bounce, intrepid sword, etc. You really don’t need scrappy or -ate abilities to kill ghosts although it definitely does help in that matchup. Yes ghosts are undoubtedly one of the best types in metronome, but I personally think we do not need to take any action at the moment.

Some things i would like to see happen:
1. Primordial Sea/Desolate Land unban - I talked about this in a previous post but tldr it can also benefit your opponent so its not actually that broken
2. Raise BST Cap to 630 - free my mans msceptile, mblastoise, mblaziken

 

[higgsmonaghan]

I really thought Ngas (+comatose) was broken in the beginning and I was advocating for its ban but I came to realize that it’s actually not that broken. Sure, it does theoretically grant you a slight advantage against every team, but against low ladders who do not have proper abilities, you’re just better off having actual good abilities like defiant/competitive, magic bounce, intrepid sword, etc. You really don’t need scrappy or -ate abilities to kill ghosts although it definitely does help in that matchup. Yes ghosts are undoubtedly one of the best types in metronome, but I personally think we do not need to take any action at the moment.

Some things i would like to see happen:
1. Primordial Sea/Desolate Land unban - I talked about this in a previous post but tldr it can also benefit your opponent so its not actually that broken
2. Raise BST Cap to 630 - free my mans msceptile, mblastoise, mblaziken

agree on the ngas+comatose really only being useful on the upper ladder. i wound up running a few different teams on my alt to get it up on the rankings and once i hit a certain point (probably ~1200) it was better to run comatose+ngas. but below that, i was pretty much getting beat on the regular.
but then again of course i would say this because comatose+ngas is the only thing i run lol

 

[Ivy]

Some things i would like to see happen:
1. Primordial Sea/Desolate Land unban - I talked about this in a previous post but tldr it can also benefit your opponent so its not actually that broken
2. Raise BST Cap to 630 - free my mans msceptile, mblastoise, mblaziken

Desolate land isn't going to go; it's ruinous with camerupt. Any "benefit" the opponent gets is outweighed by how highly favored the camerupt user is. Even with neutral gas memeing on it, it's clearly not ubiquitous enough alone to support unbanning. Camerupt stans can always use storm drain instead to a similar effect. As for primordial sea, though, the lack of steel-types now makes it quite tolerable; anything else that has a 4x fire weakness also has a heinous defensive typing overall. Could very well free the sea.
Pretty sure I've said this before, but the latter is just a minuscule power creep for 'mons that wouldn't even be useful in the meta (MAYBE m-stoise as an upgrade over manaphy).

 

[higgsmonaghan]

lets unban perish body while we're at it :)

 

[Low-Key]

lets unban perish body while we're at it :)

I really don't think it will get unbanned, since it would OHKO everything in the lane, and you also can't switch, so it's porbably gonna stay banned.
It's too OP for Metronome Battles, and I will probably see some things that wouldn't work with it.

 

[higgsmonaghan]

i wanna see long reach and protective pads become the new dominating meta in metronome battles

 

[higgsmonaghan]

if i spend another day inside i might actually go insane. here's a team based on the perish body meta

worldbuilding

the year...is 2030..pokemon showdown...is no longer a place for ou..nu..pu. all of these formats are rarities...each struggles to get 10k battles and often doesn't qualify for a ladder...in its place...metronome battles..some prefer vanilla metronome battles...others enjoy the wildcard sturdinja metronome battles...but the cream of the crop...the creme de la creme...is metronome battles. perish body has been unbanned as of two months ago...as the site is moderated by an ultra advanced ai...theres no appeal process...no votes...just the futile struggle of man against speed battles...some prefer random metronome battles to attempt to capture that old spice...all hope is lost...until one day..out of your printer..a pokepaste website is printed...underneath it...in a friendly and whimsically welcoming font...reads the words...'never give up....never surrender'...a raindrop falls onto the page...or is it a tear...you open up showdown and plug in the team...and here it is

tha team

Ashelf (Mesprit) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

Mespit (Azelf) @ Protective Pads
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

 

[doipy hooves]

if i spend another day inside i might actually go insane. here's a team based on the perish body meta

worldbuilding

the year...is 2030..pokemon showdown...is no longer a place for ou..nu..pu. all of these formats are rarities...each struggles to get 10k battles and often doesn't qualify for a ladder...in its place...metronome battles..some prefer vanilla metronome battles...others enjoy the wildcard sturdinja metronome battles...but the cream of the crop...the creme de la creme...is metronome battles. perish body has been unbanned as of two months ago...as the site is moderated by an ultra advanced ai...theres no appeal process...no votes...just the futile struggle of man against speed battles...some prefer random metronome battles to attempt to capture that old spice...all hope is lost...until one day..out of your printer..a pokepaste website is printed...underneath it...in a friendly and whimsically welcoming font...reads the words...'never give up....never surrender'...a raindrop falls onto the page...or is it a tear...you open up showdown and plug in the team...and here it is

tha team

Ashelf (Mesprit) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Long Reach
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

Mespit (Azelf) @ Protective Pads
Ability: Normalize
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD
Brave Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Metronome

I see your perished future, and raise my present self-activating Weakness Policy strategy. The future is not set in stone............the time to innovate is now. Rise Up

team

YOUR RIGHT (Keldeo-Resolute) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stalwart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome

MY RIGHT (Keldeo) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Propeller Tail
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome

Stalwart/Propeller Tail makes you hit yourself with multiturn moves because of PS targeting. This is the first and only time I succeeded in getting the boost and using an attacking move before dying. Keldeo is very bad. This team has a positive matchup against neutralizing gas users though so I would watch out if I were you.

EDIT:
I chose Keldeo because Water/Fighting can activate Weakness Policy via Petal Dance/Solar Beam/Blade/Sky Attack/Bounce/Fly. With multi-attack moves like Petal Dance, the first hit will target an opponent. Minimum attack/special attack could work if you wanted to pull this off lategame.

Fast fact: Dynamaxing removes Torment. This lets non-megas/Z-users escape once with only 1 Struggle use.

 

[higgsmonaghan]

I see your perished future, and raise my present self-activating Weakness Policy strategy. The future is not set in stone............the time to innovate is now. Rise Up

team

YOUR RIGHT (Keldeo-Resolute) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Stalwart
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome

MY RIGHT (Keldeo) @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Propeller Tail
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome

Stalwart/Propeller Tail makes you hit yourself with multiturn moves because of PS targeting. This is the first and only time I succeeded in getting the boost and using an attacking move before dying. Keldeo is very bad. This team has a positive matchup against neutralizing gas users though so I would watch out if I were you.

EDIT:
I chose Keldeo because Water/Fighting can activate Weakness Policy via Petal Dance/Solar Beam/Blade/Sky Attack/Bounce/Fly. With multi-attack moves like Petal Dance, the first hit will target an opponent. Minimum attack/special attack could work if you wanted to pull this off lategame.

Fast fact: Dynamaxing removes Torment. This lets non-megas/Z-users escape once with only 1 Struggle use.

this is so genius actually. you dont get this sh*t in ou. cant wait for 2031's meta

 

[fwqef]

Desolate land isn't going to go; it's ruinous with camerupt. Any "benefit" the opponent gets is outweighed by how highly favored the camerupt user is. Even with neutral gas memeing on it, it's clearly not ubiquitous enough alone to support unbanning. Camerupt stans can always use storm drain instead to a similar effect.

I still think you’re overrating DesoLand. Take storm drain on MCamerupt for example. Desolate Land makes all water moves fizzle, but storm drain boosts the ability user’s spa by 1 stage, which can often be better damage-wise than the 1.5x fire boost. Yeah it’s not an immediate boost, but storm drain boost can stack. It also doesn’t boost the opponent’s fire moves against your Camerupts. Even if Camerupt resists fire, strong hits are still doing a chunk with harsh sun up.

calcs

252+ SpA Choice Specs Ampharos-Mega Blue Flare vs. 252 HP / 252 SpD Camerupt-Mega in Harsh Sunshine: 159-188 (46.2 - 54.6%) -- 59% chance to 2HKO

+1 252+ Atk Choice Band Banette-Mega Pyro Ball vs. 252 HP / 252 Def Camerupt-Mega in Harsh Sunshine: 228-269 (66.2 - 78.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

You even admitted yourself that camerupt can use storm drain instead for a similar effect. While I do think Desolate Land could be a better choice, I highly doubt it’s too much better for it to be banned. I won’t argue further on this if you still believe it’s broken, I trust your judgment.

Pretty sure I've said this before, but the latter is just a minuscule power creep for 'mons that wouldn't even be useful in the meta (MAYBE m-stoise as an upgrade over manaphy).

I suggested 630BST since it IS such a miniscule change. It would allow just a few more mons to play around with without powercreeping the meta too much.

 

[Enderevilherobrine]

I've discovered that if you give Silvally Rks system and have it hold a steel type drive it can bypass the steel ban

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1121089437

It's less broken and more I cheated the system

 

[Ivy]

I've discovered that if you give Silvally Rks system and have it hold a steel type drive it can bypass the steel ban
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1121089437
It's less broken and more I cheated the system

Yeah, this is known; at the cost of both the ability and item slots it's a pretty reasonable occurrence.

 

[1234bst]

I've discovered that if you give Silvally Rks system and have it hold a steel type drive it can bypass the steel ban

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1121089437

It's less broken and more I cheated the system

Combine with neutralizing gas dusclops, for non-leppa stall

 

[doipy hooves]

It's judgement day. I ran a bot on the ladder on and off the past 2 days with meme teams. It amounted to about 386 battles and came surprisingly close to a 50-50 win/loss ratio at times, but I feel like we're already comfortably ahead of the goal. I would say it doesn't really have much of a speed advantage, since you can already disable animations and still get bottlenecked by the opponent, but it's nice to have it automatically run around in the background. The way I have it set up is also kind of inferior to human play, since it'll just /choose default and won't make any manual decisions like dynamaxing. Speaking of commands, /om me is a nice shortcut to bring up the metronome ruleset.

I also used poke-env for myself to mass-spam battles and compare performances of different teams. This was also without any dynamax involved. I was surprised at the sample Flower Veil team doing so well, though I mostly tested against my own sets. Might be interesting to set a baseline and directly compare options like item or nature. There's always a chance to win or lose though, and I bet even Normalize vs ghosts would end up with at least 1 win somehow. It's all a game in the end.

log

vs Mew sample:
fveil won 631 / 1000 battles [this took 225.617668 seconds]
fveil won 62 / 100 battles [this took 29.399913 seconds]
fveil won 65 / 100 battles [this took 25.987722 seconds]
fveil won 67 / 100 battles [this took 24.471094 seconds]
fveil won 58 / 100 battles [this took 26.091670 seconds]

fveilSample won 74 / 100 battles against sirfetch [this took 32.315669 seconds]
fveilSample won 73 / 100 battles against gulp [this took 22.769457 seconds]
fveilSample won 290 / 500 battles against shaymin [this took 172.249457 seconds]
fveilSample won 86 / 100 battles against serene [this took 35.032435 seconds] (kings rock Zeraora/Marshadow)
fveilSample won 77 / 100 battles against steels [this took 35.796082 seconds] (Silvally-Steel exploit)
fveilSample won 59 / 100 battles against lati@s [this took 25.325907 seconds]
fveilSample won 60 / 100 battles against silvallyghost [this took 34.391927 seconds] (magic bounce brightpowder)
fveilSample won 54 / 100 battles against silvallyghost [this took 35.086535 seconds]
fveilSample won 536 / 1000 battles against silvallyghost [this took 428.304395 seconds]

heracross won 54 / 100 battles against fveilSample [this took 30.640423 seconds]
heracross won 51 / 100 battles against fveilSample [this took 18.910395 seconds]
heracross won 573 / 1000 battles against fveilSample [this took 165.154585 seconds]

EDIT: Here's the file I made based on examples. Pretty messy, but it works well enough.
https://github.com/Flametix/poke-env/blob/metronome/examples/MetronomePlayer.py
It's pretty intuitive to use after you get everything set up. Run it alone and watch it go.

 

[Low-Key]

*ahem*

The Story

It is now 100 years into the future. No one is ever going to play the powerful tiers, and many good PS users have quit the community. The only good tier left in this future is Metronome Battles. Some people experiment with under used sets, and many more people prefer many different sets. It only comes down to one hope to save the entire town of what was Smogon and is now PokeTrocity... THE EVIOLITE GANG! Tangela and Chansey have came to help! With their abilities, Tangela prevents the fire from hurting him! And with Chansey, it may move slow, but it comes up with powerful results! The team was going to be unstoppable, for one and for all. Smogon must be saved, within the hearts of these two fellow Pokemon, that stand up against the apocalypse, and help save the entire world... ONCE AND FOR ALL!!!

Team!

around (Tangela) @ Eviolite
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Metronome

u suck (Chansey) (F) @ Eviolite
Ability: Analytic
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def / 252 SpA / 252 SpD / 252 Spe
Relaxed Nature
- Metronome
I'll write what the team is about soon (or never)
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1124994641
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1124996151
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1124998041
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8metronomebattle-1125003461
Also more stuff coming soon!

 

[doipy hooves]

Actually, I was going to say we'll give it a test run for the month of May to judge the activity of the ladder. Based on my experience with ladders, I believe that 10k is the line between good and bad. If you're above 10k, there's no question that it should be ranked as wait time is minimal on average. If you're lets say closer to 5k, the wait time for a game is going to be high. I've laid forth standards so I hope everything is clear.

Well, let's see how we did...
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-05/
https://www.smogon.com/stats/2020-05/gen8metronomebattle-1630.txt
(Check the moveset folder for some more detailed set info)

Total battles: 88633
-----
LOL @ Gourgeist-Super in 7th

 

[Ivy]

The grass type sample team has been pretty big, but evidently people are also innovating and tweaking teams at their leisure. I'm glad there are enough samples to make the meta approachable enough for this large battle count, and the teambuilder support is amazing as well. Thanks all for keeping up interest!

 

[BusinessWailrein]

I think prankster is kinda useless since most people carry a dark Mon for backup

 

[BusinessWailrein]

Also mega sabalye is broken and could be banned

 

[BusinessWailrein]

Two things.
1. So, any Pokémon can have any non-banned ability?
2. Are CAP Pokémon legal? Yes and yes. Go for any non banned ability though wonder guard air balloon on electric is banned i think