Other Metagames Mix and Mega Giratina stall( Peaked #2)

[Zorro349]

Introduction​

Hi everyone! This is zorro349 with my first rmt. I started playing mnm 4 months ago. The meta has changed tremendously after that but I still see a lot less stall teams. So I decided to make one. This team has been very successful for me and hence, I would like some feedback

Team building Process​

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I always wanted to build around giratina. It has a good bulk combined with a great typing and is perfect for a stall team

After choosing giratina, i needed a fairy resist. Ho-oh does this perfectly with good bulk and good amount of hp

Blissey is the most staple mon to put in a stall team. Massive amount of hp allows it to survive most hits even if super effective. It also acts a wish passer which was needed for this team

With ho-oh being 4x weak to rocks,this team needed a defogger. Gliscor is one of the best defoggers in the current meta imo and checks fire types comfortably due to venusaurite which also helps it against ice type attacks

Ditto is a great revenge killer for this team which punishes the opponent if the opponent decided to set up and allows this stall team to not get 6-od by mons like zygarde, ultra necrozma and magearna

Lastly, i decided to use toxapex which is a great spd wall and also this team's hazer. toxapex helps this team's mu against mons like lunala which can easily get a sub and set up

The Team​

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex

Giratina plays an important role in this team as it acts as the main physical wall. WOW wears down the damage that could've been done by mons like kartana, zygarde and pinsirte magearna. Roar was chosen over dragon tail as roar bypasses substitute and also hits fairy types. Hex hits harder if the opponent's mon is burned and ohkoes kartana. Rest allows it to heal and cure itself but should only be used if u r certain that giratina can take two hits. Pressure forces the opponent to switch out mons that have less pp

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp
​

Ho-oh acts as the main fairy resist for this team. Regenerator is a great ability which ensures ho-oh doesn't die soon. Since Sacred Fire has only 8 pp, only use it when its needed. Ho-oh also acts as the main magearna check for this team. WOW was chosen over toxic since it allows ho-oh to burn the target without using sacred fire pp and ensuring the target is burnt

Blissey @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Toxic/Seismic Toss/Psywave

Having a massive amount of hp which when combined with defenses boosted with sablenite, Blissey is a great wall. The set is not a traditional one with wish being used to heal mons like giratina and ditto and soft-boiled to heal itself . The only problem with this set is that it makes blissey really passive which allows mons to set up on it. While i personally use toxic, u can go seismic toss so that it doesn't lose to a sub. Psywave is another option for ghost types

Gliscor @ Venusaurite
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog
​

Pretty standard gliscor set with venusaurite used to deal with fire orb users. Earthquake is the main STAB move while u-turn allows it to pivot. Keeping gliscor healthy is really important because if it dies, ho-oh loses to rocks. If facing a lead shuckle, do not mega evolve gliscor fast as poison heal allows it to kill suckle without) any problem (as lead shuckle mostly carry toxic)

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform

This too is the basic ditto set with choice scarf allowing it out speed the mon it imposter-ed. Ditto can win u games if played correctly and also allows u to scout opponent's moves. It is also my check to cameruptite magearna and other setup sweepers.

Toxapex @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Payback
- Haze
- Recover
​

Toxapex is a great spd wall in this team. It ensures this team doesn't get 6-0d by sub lunala. Mega evolving toxapex late helps it recover hp without using any pp. In most cases it is wise to mega evolve toxapex late as water/poison is already a good typing. Gyaradosite allows it to toxic sablenite users and surprise mons like tapu lele. It also leaves toxapex with only one weakness, thus making it hard to wear down.

Threat list​

CM Groundceus: Tough mon to deal with. If it is a refresh variant(cm/refresh/recover/judgement) then ho-oh just wins. However judgement/cm/recover/filler is difficult to break since toxapex cant switch in and use haze and ditto cant kill. Blissey wins but if the opponent predicts carefully, it becomes an auto loss

Azelf: If given the opportunity to the red orb variant to set up and ditto is dead, this can sweep Ur whole team if hazards r up. Giratina can survive a hit and use hex. If ho-oh is healthy enough it survives a +2 thunderbolt and kills the remaining what is left after hex.

Importable

Giratina @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Rest
- Roar
- Will-O-Wisp
- Hex

Ho-Oh @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Recover
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Will-O-Wisp

Blissey @ Sablenite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Soft-Boiled
- Heal Bell
- Toxic

Gliscor @ Venusaurite
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Atk / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Roost
- Defog

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 8 SpD / 248 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Transform

Toxapex @ Gyaradosite
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 56 Def / 200 SpD
Careful Nature
- Toxic
- Payback
- Haze
- Recover

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-764054027 vs jrdn
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-764087322 vs a balance team
http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7mixandmega-765496441 vs multiammirator
srry only have 2 atm will post more later

Proof of peak

https://screenshots.firefox.com/Du1K0HfzBGLaD22I/play.pokemonshowdown.com

 

[VictiniSwag]

This is a cool team for Mix and Mega! I don't know anything about Mix and Mega, but I was wondering why you have payback on Toxapex? and why do you not use a mega stone on giratina?

 

[Zorro349]

This is a cool team for Mix and Mega! I don't know anything about Mix and Mega, but I was wondering why you have payback on Toxapex? and why do you not use a mega stone on giratina?

Thanks for the feedback!
When toxapex mega evolves with gyaradosite it adds a dark type to it thus making toxapex poison/dark. Hence payback works as a STAB move for it. Moreover payback allows toxapex to break lunala's sub in 1 shot even if not mega evolved.
Giratina can't hold a mega stone as Ubers are not allowed to hold one(barring a few such as genesect,deo-def)

 

[VictiniSwag]

Thanks for the feedback!
When toxapex mega evolves with gyaradosite it adds a dark type to it thus making toxapex poison/dark. Hence payback works as a STAB move for it. Moreover payback allows toxapex to break lunala's sub in 1 shot even if not mega evolved.
Giratina can't hold a mega stone as Ubers are not allowed to hold one(barring a few such as genesect,deo-def)

Oh okay thanks ^-^ good luck with the team, sorry that I can't have valuable input

 

[astralydia]

Great team, but I have a few problems with it.

First off, your team is mad weak to Lucarionite Zygarde - it just Substitutes up on something, like Ho-oh, and then just clicks Dragon Tail to counterphaze Giratina. It simply wins vs this team quite easily.

Darkrai is a fucking pain for this team since it just sets up on smth like Giratina, and especially if Diancite, can just 6-0 off the bat.

Taunt Terrakion can cause some huge problems for this team, mainly due to the fact that Giratina no longer walls it nearly as well. Other than that, yes it may suffer from Ditto, but they don't need to Swords Dance to break this team necessarily.

Other, less used Magearna variants can also cause huge issues here - Pinsirite is a 6-0 and can only be phazed by Giratina, and Fleurbolt variants like max defense Venusaurite and fast Manectite can abuse your team quite heavily. Luckily, neither of these are used too commonly, so I think such a weakness is OK, as long as a few changes are made:

Ho-oh: Roost > Recover, Toxic > Will-o-wisp

Roost Ho-oh lets you wall Magearna far easier - particularly they don't beat if they opt to take a Sacred Fire, which it can very well do (80% max afaik). Toxic lets you cripple CM Groundceus here - it's key for keeping this team healthy against CM Arc as it doesn't have the best countermeasures. Rest of the set is fine, imo.

Giratina: Dragon Tail > Roar, Defog > Hex
This particularly helps your matchup with Ho-oh and Terrakion, as they will not be able to take you out if they are a Taunt variant. Ditto helps with this quite considerably, which is great for this sort of team - especially seeing as Terrakion is one of the best stallbreakers in the metagame. Defog is for a secondary user incase our next nomination goes down. Toxic is a potential slash over Wisp here - however I feel as if Ho-oh encompasses most of these roles.

Mew > Ditto

Mew @ Manectite
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 212 Def / 44 Spe
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Ice Beam
- Defog
- Roost

This gives you a tertiary defogger and something that can further yet help with the Terrakion and PDon MUs respectively. Yes, I know I've given you the loss of speed control, but Ditto is in no way amazing at helping you deal with the threats you need it to, and here I feel it is relevant to change it, since sub SD Terrakion would 6-0 without these changes.

And finally, a controversial one:

Magearna > Blissey

Magearna @ Sablenite
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Dazzling Gleam / Volt Switch
- Heart Swap
- Pain Split
- Heal Bell

Magearna gives you a much better way of supporting your team by helping out against key threats like Tapu Lele which can prove problematic, particularly CM variants, which can smash through Toxapex. Magearna also helps out greatly in the Magearna and Manaphy matchups respectively - Volt Switch is there if you want to pivot out of bad matchups like the other Magearna mentioned here, but regardless, this should help with your problem with CM Arc / etc. Fleur is an option over Dazzling, but on stall I feel like you would appreciate the greater PP. Hope you enjoy this!

 

[Zorro349]

Hey! Thnx for the rate. However, I have some few concerns and would like to share:-
1. Replacing ditto with mew : While having manectite mew sure improves my mu against physically attackers and terrakion ,it worsens my mu with set up special special sweepers( like azelf) and dark types particularly darkrai which can set up and sweep. With ditto,however, every opponent will think twice before setting up especially when the mon is already a powerful sweeper and using stones like diancite or absolite. While u may argue that toxapex can stop diancite/absolite darkrai, it needs to mega evolve for that,thus losing its ability regenerator.
Which the opponent can take advantage of and wear it down, thus allowing darkrai to once again set up and sweep.
Having manectite mew will force me to run sablen mag which honestly,im not a fan of since Having no reliable recovery makes sablenite mag exploitable in a stall team.

2. While luc terrakion is a pain to this team, it certainly does need sd to break this team. However, this allows ditto to revenge kill it with the boosts
Ur advice on replacing roar with dragon tail on gira already helps me against terrakion a lot. Taunt terrakion can be forced out with dtail and sub can be broken through hex (if not a minimum roll).

Rest of Ur suggestion are really helpful and I once again thank you to provide me with those.