M&M Mix and Mega Suspect #1: Eternatus

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xavgb

:xavgb:
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus

Art by Chloe
Summary:
The Mix and Mega council has decided to conduct our first suspect of the generation: Eternatus

Eternatus has proven to be a potent threat in the Generation 8 Mix and Mega metagame. With 145 Special Attack and perfect coverage between its STABs and fire coverage, Eternatus is difficult to handle defensively. On top of that, Eternatus' breaking ability is increased dramatically when running offensive items like Metronome or Life Orb. In addition to being a potent special breaker, its 140/95/95 defenses, access to Recover, and a solid defensive typing in Poison/Dragon drastically reduce its offensive counterplay, while also giving it a plethora of opportunities to come in multiple times a game.

Eternatus will be allowed on the ladder during this suspect test.

Some replays of Eternatus in action:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1023546429
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1025904805
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1024448860-y7gg6t7c4uyy5jkwancmonxlr867fz1pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1027449653
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8mixandmega-1031054174

The suspect will last for two weeks, concluding on January 2nd at 11:59pm GMT.

Requirements:
Reqs can be achieved by getting 79 GXE with 30 or more games on the Mix and Mega ladder. Alternatively, reqs can be achieved by reaching the finals of either of the Mix and Mega daily tours in the Other Metas room, which will be happening at 10pm GMT (5pm EST) on Thursday 26th December and Thursday 2nd January. You must use a fresh alt with the sequence "TERN" anywhere in it, but not separated.

Example:
Eternamax Stresh (Eligible)
Stresh is Raimon (Ineligible)

Voting:

Once the suspect period is over, I will tag everyone who has obtained reqs by this point. I will then outline a process of blind voting, which will be clarified once this time arrives. For now, follow the above "Requirements" subheading to ensure that you've posted your reqs correctly. If this is difficult to understand, please message me on my Smogon profile and I will clarify it for you. You must post in this thread in order to be tagged if you've achieved reqs via laddering, however you do not need to include your vote on this thread.

A super-majority of 60% ban is required for Eternatus to be banned from the metagame.

TL;DR:
- Eternatus is allowed on the ladder during its suspect test.
- The GXE requirement is 79, and you must play at least 30 games on a fresh suspect alt containing the sequence "TERN". Alternatively you can achieve reqs by reaching the finals of the Mix and Mega daily tour in the Other Metas room, which will happen at 5pm EST on Thursdays.
- You must post your reqs in this thread, though the voting process will happen in a separate thread. You are not required to state your vote in this thread.
- The suspect test will conclude at 11:59pm GMT on Thursday January 2nd.
- A ban vote of 60% is required to remove Eternatus from the metagame.


Tagging The Immortal to set up the suspect alert for ladder games.
 
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Chazm

Chazm is free on PS!
is a Pre-Contributor
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This was an extremely rocky grind but I managed to get it after getting a hax streak. I definitely need improvement with my understanding of the current metagame and thus should adapt my team structures for it.

However, I will say this about my current experience - it's very heavily based around status inflicting moves right now because of Eternatus, and even moves like Flamethrower burn in games just because they're used so much in succession. Scald is thrown about like nothing, Discharge is the only way Rotoms can punish Eternatus without using Glalitite, etc... I think Eternatus is centralizing as hell because of this, and it really isn't healthy for further metagame progression. Ban this monster.
 
Learning towards no ban, I think eternatus is great but not ban worthy. I did only play vs like 3 suspect alts (~8 games) and a couple more vs Azun's annoying tr team, which claimed those 2 losses and a couple more vs funbot/gmfc, so I still havent played enough matches after Zacian ban.
Screenshot_20191221_012810.jpg

And as per usual,
Mew @ Metagrossite
Ability: Synchronize
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Psychic Fangs
- Flare Blitz
- Swords Dance
- Power Whip

Excadrill @ Lucarionite
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Iron Head
- Swords Dance
- Rapid Spin

Corviknight @ Sablenite
Ability: Pressure
Happiness: 160
EVs: 248 HP / 116 Def / 136 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Body Press
- Iron Defense
- Roost
- U-turn

Hippowdon (F) @ Venusaurite
Ability: Sand Stream
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 Def
Impish Nature
- Earthquake
- Slack Off
- Stealth Rock
- Whirlwind

Eternatus @ Metronome
Ability: Pressure
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 160
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dynamax Cannon
- Sludge Bomb
- Flamethrower
- Recover

Arcanine @ Altarianite
Ability: Intimidate
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Extreme Speed
- Flare Blitz
- Wild Charge
- Morning Sun

Some thoughts:
Very fun team overall.
Corvi/Hippo is a great defensive core and probably one of the best rn, there arent a lot of mons capable of breaking through it. Their stones can also be swapped, tho I prefer this version.
The offensive core has to be able to break through Corv/Pex/Etern so I made sure all them did (Arcanine doesn't beat pex but still dents it, Excadrill can power through corvs not running body press).
Exca is by far my favorite mon this gen, the rapid spin buff makes it not only useful but a menace offensively paired with Swords Dance and Adapt and resisting every ate, this little guy can sweep teams like nothing else.
Mew was useful as speed control who could outspeed and ohko Etern and at +2 ohko pex, gastro, washtom and nearly kill hippo/corvi iirc.
Eternatus was useful but not anything remarkable, just an overall good glue between the 2 cores.
Arcanine just did Arcanine things
 
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Dead ladder made the requirements way harder.
anyways , as stated in the first post - eternatus is definitely a threat to watch out for. The omnipotent presence of both toxapex and corviknight makes it even more viable as it can easily switch into any of those recovering.
The defensive varient too is quite viable and can wall a large part of metagame thanks to its typing.
I feel all this makes it too much to handle and hence i will be voting BAN
 

Guardsweeper

formerly RRahman1
Reqs: https://ibb.co/hMJHsy3

I dived into this without any experience in the gen 8 meta so I'm very satisfied about the outcome. Haven't found Eternatus to be the most oppressive mon in the meta at all during my run and it wasn't necessarily the star of my team either, so I'm leaning towards the no-ban side for now.

I'm very curious and excited about the prospective developments that will take place in this meta. Things are bound to change with no Mag/Zyg/PDon running rampant anymore.
 
Screen Shot 2019-12-25 at 11.18.42 PM.png


Shoutout to xavgb for the team I used to get reqs and have been using to abuse Eternatus since the start of this gen. Etern is one of those mons that the more you use it, the more you realize how nasty it is in this meta. The main reason I feel this Mon is broken and unhealthy for the meta is the fact that it refuses to die to almost any single attack. The most powerful tanks in MnM have always been Mons that not only are incredibly bulky, but can also dish out significant chunks of damage in return.

Nothing in this meta approaches Etern's ability to do this with its overwhelming bulk and special attack it eats super effective hits for breakfast and dishes out devastating damage in return. Because of its coverage, it is capable of OHKOing a ton of the offensive meta so I have been in so many games (like in the replays posted in the op) where the opponent is forced to sack one of their offensive threats for heavy chip damage on Eternatus. Eternatus then switches out against the revenger, comes back in on something like Corviknight or Toxapex later on, Recovers its health back, and then my opponent is forced to sack yet another one of their threats to try and pressure the Eternatus once again.

Defensive cores can't keep Etern out because of its moves status chances and Metronome boosts and Pressure ability, and offensive Pokemon are repeatedly sacked to try and force some semblance of progress against this Pokemon only for it to continue to prevent defensive cores from functioning. I have only abused the Metronome set which I believe is by far the best item to use on Etern but I have seen bulky Leftovers and Life Orb have reasonable success as well. This Pokemon is a menace to this metagame and needs to go. It continues to amaze me how easy it is to just stay in and click the super effective move against the Mon in front of you and put on insane pressure (no pun intended) or just win games, Ban it please.
 

xavgb

:xavgb:
is a Site Staff Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
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Got my reqs, I would like to remind people that they can have one last shot at getting reqs in the suspect tour today at 10pm GMT (5pm EST), where the winner and runner-up will be granted reqs. The deadline is very soon after that though so if you're nearly finished laddering and really want reqs it may not be the best idea to bank on the suspect tour.

I'll be voting ban, Etern does some cool things for the meta but I think it's also too powerful. It really dominates a ton of games even for the best mon in the meta, often being able to both control the momentum in the game and actually make offensive progress. I definitely found it much easier to collect replays that explain what Etern does than I would have been able to for most suspects even this early in the metagame, and those replays show a lot about the consequences of letting Etern have control at any point in the game, as well as how easy it is for Etern to get control. Things like Flamethrower burns and Sludge Bomb poisons really aren't that unlikely for this mon due to the simple fact that almost anything that can eat its attacks is also passive to it.

I feel like it may be easier to see it as broken from the perspective of being a bulky mon with recovery, except this one also happens to break down a ton of teams as seen in the replays. This completely flips the script when considering its matchup vs things like Venu Corv + Pex. Instead of Etern being written off as not that good due to this core providing some counterplay, you can see how the situations where this counterplay doesn't work come up and realise that they're pretty common. Corvi can't pivot out into something that threatens Etern without taking significant chip, Toxapex suffers from being unable to Recover back to full health against Etern if it's Banettite and still can't do much back anyway, and boosted Flamethrowers still do a ton to Corvi so burns pretty much push it over the edge during the course of a game (in one of the replays Eternatus lands a nasty burn on its 5th attempt, which is pretty reasonable for a ten percent chance). Similar things exist when trying to use the likes of Gastrodon as a check, since Earth Power has limited PP against Etern which hurts its ability to counter-attack, whilst Etern is again favoured in the scenario, being able to fish for a Sludge Bomb poison. In general, Etern performs consistently on a level where other breakers can't, due to its bulk and sustainability with Recover greatly reducing any risk associated with this mon. Most of the time you really can just click to hit whatever's in front of you and something nice will happen for you as a result unless they find something that wins the game harder. Unlike other breakers Etern is much more free to do that since its breaking prowess isn't really reliant on making aggressive calls, and misplays can be salvaged with Recover for the most part. I will also say that even if defensive cores were actually good at keeping Etern at bay, it would still be able to replicate a large part of its problematic aspects with fatter spreads - you don't see people complaining that their Corvi is being walled by defensive cores because it's still a top tier mon overall. Think of Eternatus like that if you have to, except comparatively it still has very few revenge killers so it's still pretty dangerous to the meta in that way.

https://pokepast.es/670469faa709d5ae - This is the team I used for almost the whole run, somehow it's still very good despite the fact that it was built in unexplored Zacian meta and barely tweaked since then
 
https://gyazo.com/39959b0d06e5bc6a08aa887104999695

Well, I made it. Okay.. I know this doesn't remotely matter at this point since it's the end, and my convincing won't matter, but it's best to be transparent about this whole thing... (First of all, this format's quite fun. It's nice to have something not so obviously super powerful due to the limited pool to choose from)

But anyways, I'm going to vote to ban Eternatus... but I would definitely like for it to be tested again when we get a bunch more of the missing Pokemon in Sword & Shield. So for why Eternatus is a bit too powerful right now... The dragon has 140/95/95 bulk. That's good Uber bulk. But it *also* has that 130 speed and 145 special attack. The result is a dragon that can take hits and smash nigh everything with great coverage. It's telling when your best answer in the metagame is Gastrodon.

And it can heal.

And it can use Toxic Spikes.

And then it kinda just flounders on Blissey, but hey, that doesn't even exist yet. If Arceus was dropped onto this meta without anything else, I'd probably want that to be banned too, for similar reasons to Eternatus for being way too good of a roleplayer. And honestly? I think not having Arceus in Mix and Mega is a breath of fresh air. Ton of cool ideas get to shine. And I hope Mix and Mega continues growing, despite all the setbacks over the years.
 
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