Suspect Mix and Mega Suspect: Solgaleo

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The Mix and Mega council has voted to suspect Solgaleo.

Gen 8 was the first Mix and Mega metagame in which Solgaleo was allowed to hold mega stones, and it's never been without its controversy. Solgaleo has excellent stats in every category, and mega stones add on top of that while overwriting its mediocre ability. Early on in the generation, Solgaleo tried to run Charizardite Y to act as a check to Kyogre, to middling success; once it left, however, Solgaleo founds its niche in running Metagrossite and Aerodactylite sets that could offer significant role compression while acting as a speed control or wallbreaker. Fundamentally, however, even with the differing stones and coverage move options, all of Solgaleo's sets did about the same thing and had very similar checks and counters. While its bulk and recovery gave it noticeable longevity, this didn't really extend towards breaking through counters, especially due to the inadequacies of howl as a boosting move. In more recent months, however, there has been something of a switch towards Calm Mind sets for Solgaleo, starting with Venusaurite and then branching out to Latiasite and Cameruptite. Not only do these sets have different answers and counterplay than the still-viable physical sets, even solely considering special sets Solgaleo has an increased ability to pick its own checks and counters, and can theoretically act to sweep an opposing team rather than just clean up one that's already damaged.

However, that's not to say there aren't counterarguments. Much like the physical sets, Calm Mind Solgaleo is significantly held back by its limited recovery PP, and unlike physical sets it is significantly less immediately threatening. Cameruptite Solgaleo is noticeably weaker than Aerodactylite, and it pays for even that performance with a significant cost to speed and the ability to turn a section of checks into setup bait that Venusaurite and Latiasite make use of. While Calm Mind is better than Howl, it doesn't ramp up the damage any faster, and between the lack of boosts to defense and the relatively low speed Solgaleo is vulnerable to a wide variety of physical attackers. There also lies the question of adaptation; Lunala was previously held to be in a similar boat to Solgaleo's current state as a special setup sweeper, and the metagame has since adapted to render it not only not broken but also not especially good. With an increase in usage of Pokemon like Sablenite Blissey, Mew, and Lunala to answer Solgaleo defensively, as well as Pokemon like Urshifu who can to chase it out and make progress, it's entirely plausible that given time the metagame will simply adapt to the new Solgaleo sets and it end up slotting into a healthy role on balance and bulky offense teams.

With this in mind, it's up for the community to determine whether this sun dog will live to see another dawn. Eligible Mix and Mega voters will decide whether or not Solgaleo will continue to be allowed to hold mega stones.


Requirements can be achieved by getting 80 GXE with 30 games, down to 76 GXE with 50 games on the Mix and Mega ladder. In order to participate in the suspect, you must create a fresh alt (creation date no earlier than 19 October 2022) with the prefix MNMSO at the start of the name. When you have obtained the reqs, make sure to post proof of your alt's record (generally a screenshot) in this thread, and if you wish to do so, you can also share your thoughts on the test here.

MNMSO Suspect- ✓
MNM So What?- ✓
It's MNM Soup- ✗

The deadline for this suspect will be just under two weeks from now, concluding on October 30th at 11:59 PM GMT +0 (7:59 PM EDT).

Once the suspect period is over, everyone who has obtained reqs will be tagged. The post will then outline a process of blind voting, which will be clarified once the time arrives. For now, follow the above "Requirements" subheading to ensure that you have posted your reqs correctly. You must post on this thread in order to be tagged in the voting thread, however you do not need to include your vote on this thread.

A super-majority of 60% ban votes is required for Solgaleo to be banned from holding mega stones.

- Solgaleo is allowed to hold mega stones on the ladder during the suspect test
- The GXE requirement is 80 and the minimum game count is 30, down to a minimum of 76 after 50 games
- You must ladder on a newly-created alt using the prefix MNMSO
- You must post your reqs in this thread, though the voting process will happen in a separate thread. You are not required to state your vote in this thread.
- The suspect test will conclude at 11:59pm GMT +0 (7:59pm EDT) on Sunday, October 30th.
- A ban vote of 60% is required to prevent Solgaleo from holding Mega Stones.
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Skjermbilde 2022-10-20 kl. 12.46.13.png

Could have gone 30-0 if I didn't threw that game I lost on, s/o to everyone MNMSO alts I haxxed when I was losing.
Opinion on Solg is uncertain. Right now I don't think it's that broken, but I haven't dwelled into the cm deep-hole yet so my opinion may change within the week.

I already gave my thoughts on Solgaleo in the OM Discord so i'm copying some of that here. I think counterplay for the physical solgs are just built into teams if you don't have a mon that handles solg you're gonna lose to every physical attacker in the tier like all of the fightings and atespeeders. So it's more about figuring out how to handle cm sets well. I think cam is by far the most broken cm set I don't think the other stones are close to being as difficult to handle because venu and Lati are just really really weak especially without special attack investment. There are two ways to check cm solgs. The first is to have is to have a really bulky pivot and then have a strong breaker that punishes it trying to sit around and click cm. That approach has consistently worked for me and offers the necessarily compression to not just be a dead slot solely focused on beating special solg. The second is to have special sponges that don't allow any special setup to win. The main two in this category are Confide Sablenite Blissey and Haze Gyaradosite Toxapex. These type of mons tend to be passive and clunky so I prefer to roll with pivots paired with strong (usually dark-type) breakers. All this to say I think people haven't caught up to the meta in the builder yet and solg destroying teams by itself should change when people adapt.

I don't think Lati and Venu Solg work very different from any of the other bulky setup in MnM right now. Curse Ho-oh and CM Slowking-Galar are two that immediately come to mind. These mons are really bulky and difficult to beat on paper but the reality is, in a meta where hazards, pivoting, and heavy hitters are dominant it can be difficult to find a good window to set up and break through teams. Because these mons are focused on bulky setup, they sacrifice pivoting or other support elements leading to clunky teammates that are deadweight in some matchups.

I've been using a lot of Hydreigon on my teams recently and I think it's the best example of a breaker that not only prevents Solgaleo from coming in and sweeping teams, it punishes Solgaleo and punches holes of its own. This set hits like a truck and is able to OHKO sp def Manec Mage with Modest +2 Fire Blast.
Hydreigon @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Dark Pulse
- Fire Blast
- Nasty Plot
- Roost

The other breaker i've been exploring is banded Darkshifu people rarely have a counter built into their teams and a pivot sponge like Sablenite Blissey can come in on Solgaleo, scout its set, and pivot into that Darkshifu if the Solg starts trying to set up. MnM is evolving into a meta where you need to have powerful breakers to punish bulky setup because Moldy Toxic isn't cutting it anymore and I think the CM Solgs are no exception to this rule.

tldr; I don't think CM Solgaleo sets are as easy to use or as overbearing as Lunala or Eternatus from the past. I am planning on voting Do Not Ban
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Aw Phooey
is a Contributor to Smogon

confirming as mnm so duck
shoutouts to my mom for turning off the wifi while i was in the middle or 3 games

dont have super thorough thoughts on solg, mostly agree with what andy said, i think it's really strong but idk what im gonna vote yet

i also learned that you can lose gxe from a win


formerly Kennedy
is a Forum Moderatoris a Community Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a member of the Battle Simulator Staffis a Community Leader Alumnus
Rands Slam Winner

Confirming as MNMSO Brightside

quick post to give my thoughts as someone whose only mnm experience comes from watching tour games and trying out dumb mons on the ladder
I think Solg is a bit on the broken side here, Metagrossite and Aerodactylite sets seemed fine when I faced them, but CM Latiasite and Double Dance Cameruptite are straight up demon sets
Latiasite giving insane bulk + Levitate makes Solg able to setup on so much shit its not even funny, I 1v1d soooo many bulky cm users with a Psychic/Flame/CM/Morning Sun
Cameruptite sets messed me up everytime I faced them, whether on HO or bulkier builds
idt this mon is fair but my opinion on it might change depending on how many haha reacts ill get on this
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Don Vascus

Certified Wednesday Poster
is a Tiering Contributor

Confirmando como MNM Sopa Criolla.

I feel like my mnm experience has been really limited in this sus run. I swear i fought every lost kid and ppl running their uber teams. I fought a guy running mewtwonite y bliss. Guys who went through every move in their move set until they found the one that was super effective like they were trying keys in a lock. A guy running avalanche bliss. I didn't know it learned that move. The only base mega i didn't see was meganium. I swear someone was rigging mnm ladder to get easy reqs by telling every new player in lobby "you can use mega Charizard x in here!" and i just happened to play at the same time as them. The only thing i learned about solg is that cameruptite psychic+flame feels cooler, but flash+tbolt pays the bills. I think even if i fought better players, i still wouldve not been able to truly feel the oppressiveness of CM solg because i was running Screens HO, any sort of momentum loss would still be game ending. I somehow suspect solg is a mon scarier when your team isn't designed to be used with the pedal to the metal at all times and meant to be played for longer than 30 turns. It might also contribute the fact that i for a while, ran zyg, lando and entei in the same team

The latest iteration of the team i used.
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