Moltres (OU Revamp) [Done!]

[OVERVIEW]

Moltres is GSC OU's most consistent Sunny Day attacker. It has the highest Special Attack out of any Fire-type, and with the help of Charcoal and Sunny Day, it has extremely high odds to 2HKO Snorlax after Spikes. Moltres's defensive stats are also quite solid, and its typing enables it to answer common threats like Exeggutor, Steelix, Forretress, and Heracross. In addition, it makes for a decent sleep absorber, and its Spikes immunity can be quite useful for longer games. Moltres best matches up versus offensive teams that lack Fire-resistant Pokemon, in particular when Steelix is used as the only Normal-type check with a Zapdos / Snorlax / Cloyster core; unless Vaporeon or Charizard is used in one of the slots, the other two Pokemon likely do not resist Fire. Some examples of those Pokemon are Nidoking, Jynx, Exeggutor, Machamp, and Gengar. In addition, Moltres can wreak havoc versus traditional defensive teams that replace Suicune with Umbreon.

Despite Moltres's potential to 2HKO Snorlax, it's still not favored in a one-on-one matchup; its best chances are if sun has already been set up, but Snorlax can use Self-Destruct to take Moltres down with it. Usually Moltres's only attack is Fire Blast, so Water- and Rock-types like Vaporeon, Suicune, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Golem will often stop it in its tracks. Moltres also struggles versus Zapdos and Raikou if they switch in safely, as they outspeed it and threaten it with their powerful Electric-type attacks.

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Sunny Day
item: Charcoal

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

RestTalk is Moltres's most consistent moveset because of its overall longevity and ability to compensate for Sunny Day's and Fire Blast's low PP. The combination of Rest and Sleep Talk enables Moltres to check Pokemon like Exeggutor and Jynx, which would otherwise be a bit difficult to switch into. In addition, thanks to Sunny Day reducing Thunder's accuracy, Moltres can also absorb Nidoking's Lovely Kiss relatively well. If Nidoking tries to use Thief, it ends up stealing Charcoal, which significantly reduces Thief's effectiveness. Sunny Day significantly increases Moltres's damage output, which enables it to OHKO Cloyster and Gengar after Spikes, as well as 2HKO several Pokemon such as Machamp, Zapdos, and Raikou. With Charcoal, it even has high odds to 2HKO Snorlax after Spikes, which is significant in that no other Sunny Day attacker is capable of accomplishing that feat.

Although it may seem inconvenient for Moltres to use Sunny Day with Sleep Talk, this can be useful to restart sun's timer and also make it more difficult for Pokemon like Zapdos, Raikou, Snorlax, and Nidoking to land Thunder. While Moltres is awake, try to conserve Fire Blast's PP carefully, as 8 PP is extremely low and may be difficult to manage in a long game. It may also be best to keep Moltres hidden as long as possible, because compared to other Pokemon, Moltres can become much easier to manage once it has been revealed.

Team Options
=========

For Moltres to successfully sweep a team, it needs quite a bit of support. Sleep inducers like Snorlax, Exeggutor, and Gengar make it easier to switch Moltres in and set up. As an added bonus, all of these Pokemon can use Explosion or Self-Destruct to potentially remove a Moltres check like Vaporeon, Suicune, Zapdos, or Raikou. Cloyster is an almost mandatory teammate, as Spikes are what enable Moltres to have high odds at 2HKOing Snorlax. In addition, its Explosion is also very useful, especially for removing Moltres checks like Starmie, Vaporeon, and Suicune. Steelix's Steel / Ground typing allows it to support Moltres with its Electric immunity and Normal and Rock resistances. It can often use a combination of Curse, Roar, and Explosion to force in and KO Zapdos, assisting in Moltres's eventual sweep. Other Ground-types like Nidoking and Golem can be useful to combat Electric-types; Nidoking can use Lovely Kiss, and Golem can use Explosion to disrupt typical Moltres checks. Your own Raikou can support Moltres by shrugging off Electric-type attacks from Zapdos, using Roar to phaze the opposing team and identify Moltres checks early, and pressuring Water-types like Suicune and Vaporeon. Raikou can potentially use Hidden Power Water to lure in and remove Rock / Ground types like Rhydon and Golem, but both should be worn down slightly before using the move, as it is not a guaranteed OHKO. Also, using Thunderbolt over Thunder on Raikou should be considered so as to not be messed up by your own sun. Moltres can directly support Tyranitar by using Sunny Day to weaken Water-type attacks and enable it to take on Electric-types with slightly more ease. In return, Tyranitar can switch into Starmie and threaten it with Pursuit and Crunch, which frees up Moltres and Cloyster significantly.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast for more PP and higher accuracy, but this is generally not worth it, as the additional power is extremely important and Moltres can somewhat compensate for Fire Blast's low PP with Rest and Sleep Talk. Leftovers can also be used over Charcoal for increased longevity at the expense of more power. Hidden Power Grass gives Moltres better coverage, enabling it to turn the tide against Rhydon, Golem, and Quagsire; however, the move is far too weak to make a significant difference versus Vaporeon, Starmie, and Suicune. Whirlwind is a decent option, since Moltres is able to force many switches with its offensive presence. Sleep Talk can be used without Rest on more offensive sets so Moltres can still function as a sleep absorber, but its longevity will be significantly hampered. Toxic could be used to cripple Rock-types like Rhydon, Golem, and Tyranitar, but it's quite difficult to find room for this move. Substitute is an interesting option alongside moves like Sunny Day and Toxic, which can potentially enable Moltres to more safely combat Electric-types like Zapdos and Raikou. Overall, however, Moltres has an extremely difficult time giving up any of its main moves and will lose a large portion of its effectiveness if any of them is replaced.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water-types**: Water-types like Vaporeon, Quagsire, Starmie, and Suicune can completely shut down Moltres, as they can shrug off Fire Blast, even in the sun, and hit Moltres with super effective Water-type attacks or, in Quagsire's case, Hidden Power Rock.

**Rock-types**: Tyranitar, Golem, and Rhydon can check Moltres, as Fire Blast is usually its only attacking move. While Tyranitar and Rhydon can fire back with a 4x super effective Rock Slide, Golem typically needs to use Explosion to remove Moltres as it often forgoes Rock-type coverage.

**Electric-types**: Zapdos and Raikou both outspeed Moltres and can threaten it with powerful STAB-boosted Electric-type attacks. While Moltres can deal massive damage back with Fire Blast, it doesn't usually want to stay in and take an attack. Moltres is able to take one Thunder, however, so it may want to go for a KO in a pinch. If sun is up, Moltres may also want to stay in and bank on a 50% chance for Thunder to miss, which may open the gate for it to sweep.

**Specially Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon like Blissey and Snorlax have a lot of natural Special Defense, which enables them to check Moltres. While Blissey checks Moltres defensively by shrugging off Fire Blast, Snorlax can hit Moltres with powerful STAB-boosted Normal-type attacks like Body Slam, Double-Edge, and even Self-Destruct. Snorlax needs to be careful of a Charcoal-boosted Fire Blast in the sun, though, which has high odds to 2HKO it after damage from Spikes.

**Gengar**: Gengar outspeeds Moltres and can attack it with a super effective Electric-type attack, use Explosion to remove it, or even take Moltres down with it by using Destiny Bond. Gengar can never switch into Moltres safely, though; it needs to be very healthy to take a hit. While sun is up, Gengar should never switch into Moltres.

**Pokemon with Rock-type attacks**: Machamp and Marowak can always take a hit from full and hit Moltres with a devastating 4x super effective Rock Slide, landing a 2HKO and an OHKO respectively. Neither of these Pokemon can switch into Moltres safely, however, because they risk being 2HKOed by Fire Blast.

**Fire-types**: Charizard is a great Moltres check because it can switch into Fire Blast safely from full, and it can outspeed and 2HKO Moltres with Rock Slide. Entei resists any of Moltres's attacks, but it can't do too much damage back to Moltres. Still, it can be used in hopes that Moltres wastes its Fire Blast PP on it. Moltres can check itself, but that often results in a PP war.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Excal, 456373]]
- Quality checked by: [[BKC, 52012], [Earthworm, 15210]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Rabia, 336073], [The Dutch Plumberjack, 232216]]
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Moltres best matches up versus offensive teams that lack Fire-type resists; in particular, when Steelix is used as the only Normal-type resist with a Zapdos / Snorlax / Cloyster core, unless Vaporeon or Charizard is used in one of the slots, the other two Pokemon likely do not resist Fire.
mention what those other two pokemon often are - machamp, jynx, gengar, nidoking. also, generic stall teams that use umbreon over suicune are in for a very bad time against molt as well
however, Rhydon and Golem must watch out for the rare Hidden Power Grass
I don't think hp grass molt is worth using, it needs the 4 moves on its standard set too badly. both these guys get worn down really hard by fire blast with spikes down anyway
Moltres also struggles versus Zapdos and Raikou, which outspeed it and threaten it with their powerful Electric-type attacks.
yeah, but also mention that they're not at all comfortable switching into charcoal fire blast and sunny day ruins their thunders, making for easy snorlax switches
item: Charcoal / Leftovers
charcoal only, imo. molt tanks stuff well enough already and the extra power is what enables its niche in the first place as well as making it generally difficult to switch into with spikes down even with something like ttar. molt is all about the strength, and compromising the thing that makes it good for some extra, usually useless defensive utility is not a good way to make use of it.
RestTalk is Moltres's most consistent moveset because of its overall longevity and ability to compensate for Sunny Day and Fire Blast's low PP. The combination of Rest and Sleep Talk enables Moltres to check Pokemon like Exeggutor and Jynx, which would otherwise be a bit difficult to switch into.
it's great at absorbing nido too thanks to its speed and sday messing up thunder. plus, thief nido gets charcoal, which doesn't do it much good

in terms of partners, sday moltres allows crunch tyranitar to pursuit starmie fairly efficiently. this opens up cloy + molt even more.
Your own Raikou can support Moltres by shrugging off Electric-type attacks from Zapdos and using Roar to phaze the opposing team and identify Moltres checks early. Raikou can potentially use Hidden Power Water to lure in and remove Rock / Ground-types like Rhydon and Golem, but both should be worn down slightly before using Hidden Power Water, as it is not a guaranteed OHKO.
mention that kou should use tbolt so you don't get messed up by your own sday

I'd clean up the checks/counters list - molt shouldn't be using grass, golem shouldn't be using rock slide, aero/oma shouldn't be mentioned. molt can live a thunder from the electrics, so it can go for a ko in a pinch. gengar often uses tbolt, not just thunder.
**Fire-types**: Fire-types resist any of Moltres's attacks, but can't do too much damage back to Moltres.
actually, charizard is one of the best moltres counters - faster, spikes immune, doesn't mind naked charcoal blast too much. rock slide doesn't come close to ohkoing but it's still one of the best checks. houndoom, the other ou fire, isn't a good molt check at all, as in addition to not hurting molt much, it gets utterly slammed by blast and doesn't heal to boot
 
Last edited:
mention what those other two pokemon often are - machamp, jynx, gengar, nidoking. also, generic stall teams that use umbreon over suicune are in for a very bad time against molt as well

I don't think hp grass molt is worth using, it needs the 4 moves on its standard set too badly. both these guys get worn down really hard by fire blast with spikes down anyway

yeah, but also mention that they're not at all comfortable switching into charcoal fire blast and sunny day ruins their thunders, making for easy snorlax switches

charcoal only, imo. molt tanks stuff well enough already and the extra power is what enables its niche in the first place as well as making it generally difficult to switch into with spikes down even with something like ttar. molt is all about the strength, and compromising the thing that makes it good for some extra, usually useless defensive utility is not a good way to make use of it.

it's great at absorbing nido too thanks to its speed and sday messing up thunder. plus, thief nido gets charcoal, which doesn't do it much good

in terms of partners, sday moltres allows crunch tyranitar to pursuit starmie fairly efficiently. this opens up cloy + molt even more.

mention that kou should use tbolt so you don't get messed up by your own sday

I'd clean up the checks/counters list - molt shouldn't be using grass, golem shouldn't be using rock slide, aero/oma shouldn't be mentioned. molt can live a thunder from the electrics, so it can go for a ko in a pinch. gengar often uses tbolt, not just thunder.

actually, charizard is one of the best moltres counters - faster, spikes immune, doesn't mind naked charcoal blast too much. rock slide doesn't come close to ohkoing but it's still one of the best checks. houndoom, the other ou fire, isn't a good molt check at all, as in addition to not hurting molt much, it gets utterly slammed by blast and doesn't heal to boot
Cleaned this up and implemented everything, thanks so much for the check! Let me know if there's anything else I need to fix.
 
it's important for the other options section (or wherever you deem it most fit) to emphasize just how much effectiveness moltres loses when not running the standard set, with not much in the way of tangible reward to make up for it. sday restalk moltres is a legitimate gsc threat, any other set is gimmicky.

other than that, looks terrific, qc 1/2
 
Everything is looking great. This is entirely based on theory but I think Substitute should be added to OO, which I think would be decent alongside Sunny Day and Toxic. Leftovers and Flamethrower should also be at the top of OO at least if they aren't in the main set.

Excal said:
Cloyster is an almost mandatory teammate, as Spikes are what enable Moltres to have high odds at 2HKOing Snorlax. In addition, its Explosion is also very useful.
For this bit I think you could include potential targets for Explosion that would help out Moltres like Starmie and Suicune. Thanks to CE for pointing this out.

Raikou's ability to pressure waters (i.e. spikes + roar) and check Charizard could also be optionally mentioned if you think you can do so without it taking up too much space.

I noticed Omastar and Aerodactyl are in the checks and counters. I think since Moltres has quite a few extremely reliable mainstream checks (in contrast with Muk which can realistically threaten / go even with almost anything common barring like Curse Rest Ttar/Rest Golem) you could get away with not mentioning them or keeping their mention extremely brief. But I am just commenting here, if you'd prefer to keep it as is then I have no qualms with that.

QC 2/2
 
Everything is looking great. This is entirely based on theory but I think Substitute should be added to OO, which I think would be decent alongside Sunny Day and Toxic. Leftovers and Flamethrower should also be at the top of OO at least if they aren't in the main set.

For this bit I think you could include potential targets for Explosion that would help out Moltres like Starmie and Suicune. Thanks to CE for pointing this out.

Raikou's ability to pressure waters (i.e. spikes + roar) and check Charizard could also be optionally mentioned if you think you can do so without it taking up too much space.

I noticed Omastar and Aerodactyl are in the checks and counters. I think since Moltres has quite a few extremely reliable mainstream checks (in contrast with Muk which can realistically threaten / go even with almost anything common barring like Curse Rest Ttar/Rest Golem) you could get away with not mentioning them or keeping their mention extremely brief. But I am just commenting here, if you'd prefer to keep it as is then I have no qualms with that.

QC 2/2
Very late on this but I have implemented everything here. Thanks so much for the check! This is GP ready now
 

Rabia

is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Community Leaderis a Community Contributoris a Smogon Discord Contributoris a CAP Contributoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris a Battle Simulator Moderator
GP & NU Leader
add remove comments
[OVERVIEW]

Moltres is GSC OU's most consistent Sunny Day attacker. It has the highest Special Attack out of any Fire-type, and with the help of Charcoal and Sunny Day, it has extremely high odds to 2HKO Snorlax after Spikes. Moltres's defensive stats are also quite solid, and its typing enables it to answer common threats like Exeggutor, Steelix, Forretress, and Heracross. In addition, it makes for a decent sleep absorber,(AC) and its Spikes immunity can be quite useful for longer games. Moltres best matches up versus offensive teams that lack Fire-type resists Fire-resistant Pokemon,(semicolon -> comma) in particular (RC) when Steelix is used as the only Normal-type resist check with a Zapdos / Snorlax / Cloyster core;(comma -> semicolon) unless Vaporeon or Charizard is used in one of the slots, the other two Pokemon likely do not resist Fire. Some examples of those Pokemon are Nidoking, Jynx, Exeggutor, Machamp, and Gengar. In addition, Moltres can wreak havoc versus traditional defensive teams that replace Suicune with Umbreon.

Despite Moltres's potential to 2HKO Snorlax, it's still not favored in a one-on-one matchup; its best chances are if sun has already been set up, but Snorlax can use Self-Destruct to take Moltres down with it. Usually its Moltres's only attack is Fire Blast, so Water- and Rock-types like Vaporeon, Suicune, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Golem will often stop Moltres it in its tracks. Moltres also struggles versus Zapdos and Raikou if they switch in safely, which as they outspeed it and threaten it with their powerful Electric-type attacks.

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Sunny Day
item: Charcoal

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

RestTalk is Moltres's most consistent moveset because of its overall longevity and ability to compensate for Sunny Day's and Fire Blast's low PP. The combination of Rest and Sleep Talk enables Moltres to check Pokemon like Exeggutor and Jynx, which would otherwise be a bit difficult to switch into. In addition, thanks to Sunny Day reducing Thunder's accuracy, Moltres can also absorb Nidoking's Lovely Kiss relatively well. If Nidoking tries to use Thief, it ends up stealing Charcoal, which significantly reduces Thief's effectiveness. Sunny Day significantly increases Moltres's damage output, which enables Moltres it to OHKO Cloyster and Gengar after Spikes, as well as 2HKO several Pokemon such as Machamp, Zapdos, and Raikou. With Charcoal, it even has high odds to 2HKO Snorlax after Spikes, which is significant in that no other Sunny Day attacker is capable of accomplishing that feat.

Although it may seem inconvenient for Moltres to use Sunny Day with Sleep Talk, this can be useful to restart Sunny Day's sun's timer and also make it more difficult for Pokemon like Zapdos, Raikou, Snorlax, and Nidoking to land Thunder. While Moltres is awake, try to conserve Sunny Day's and Fire Blast's PP carefully, as only 8 PP for each move is extremely low and may be difficult to manage in a long game. It may also be best to keep Moltres hidden as long as possible, because compared to other Pokemon, Moltres can become much easier to manage once it has been revealed.

Team Options
=========

For Moltres to successfully sweep a team, it needs quite a bit of support. Sleep inducers like Snorlax, Exeggutor, and Gengar make it easier to switch Moltres in and set up. As an added bonus, all of these Pokemon can use Explosion or Self-Destruct to potentially remove a Moltres check like Vaporeon, Suicune, Zapdos, and or Raikou. Cloyster is an almost mandatory teammate, as Spikes are what enable Moltres to have high odds at 2HKOing Snorlax. In addition, its Explosion is also very useful, especially for removing Moltres checks like Starmie, Vaporeon, and Suicune. Steelix's Steel / Ground typing supports Moltres with its Electric immunity and Normal and Rock-type resistances. It can often use a combination of Curse, Roar, and Explosion to force in and KO Zapdos, assisting in Moltres's eventual sweep. Other Ground-types like Nidoking and Golem can be useful to combat Electric-types; Nidoking can use Lovely Kiss and Golem can use Explosion to disrupt typical Moltres checks.(semicolon -> period) however However, combining a Ground-type with Moltres compounds a Water-type weakness, so consider that when building the rest of your team. Your own Raikou can support Moltres by shrugging off Electric-type attacks from Zapdos, using Roar to phaze the opposing team and identify Moltres checks early, and pressuring Water-types like Suicune and Vaporeon. Raikou can potentially use Hidden Power Water to lure in and remove Rock / Ground types(RH) like Rhydon and Golem, but both should be worn down slightly before using Hidden Power Water, as it is not a guaranteed OHKO. Also, Raikou should use Thunderbolt so as to not be messed up by your own Sunny Day sun. Moltres can directly support Tyranitar by using Sunny Day to weaken Water-type attacks and enable it to switch into Electric-types with slightly more ease. In particular In return, Tyranitar can switch into Starmie and threaten it with Pursuit and Crunch, which frees up Moltres and Cloyster significantly.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast for more PP and higher accuracy, but this is generally not worth it, as the additional power is extremely important and Moltres can somewhat compensate for Fire Blast's low PP with Rest and Sleep Talk. Leftovers can also be used over Charcoal for increased longevity at the expense of more power. Hidden Power Grass gives Moltres better coverage, enabling it to turn the tide against Rhydon, Golem, and Quagsire; however, the move is far too weak to make a significant difference versus Vaporeon, Starmie, and Suicune. Whirlwind is a decent option,(AC) since Moltres is able to force many switches with its offensive presence. Sleep Talk can be used without Rest on more offensive sets so it Moltres can still function as a sleep absorber, but the its longevity will be significantly hampered. Toxic could be used to cripple Rock-types like Rhydon, Golem, and Tyranitar, but it's quite difficult to find room for this move. Substitute is an interesting option alongside moves like Sunny Day and Toxic, which can potentially enable Moltres to more safely combat Electric-types like Zapdos and Raikou. Overall, however, Moltres has an extremely difficult time giving up any of its main moves (RC) and will lose a large portion of its effectiveness if any of them is replaced.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water-types**: Water-types like Vaporeon, Quagsire, Starmie, and Suicune can completely shut down Moltres, as they can shrug off Fire Blast, even in the sun, and hit Moltres with super effective Water-type attacks—or,(AC) in Quagsire's case, Hidden Power Rock.

**Rock-types**: Tyranitar, Golem, and Rhydon can check Moltres, as Fire Blast is usually its only attacking move. While Tyranitar and Rhydon can fire back with a 4x super effective Rock Slide, Golem almost always needs to use Explosion to remove Moltres.

**Electric-types**: Zapdos and Raikou both outspeed Moltres and can threaten it with powerful STAB-boosted Electric-type attacks. Moltres can deal massive damage back with Fire Blast, but Moltres it doesn't usually want to stay in and take an attack. Moltres is able to take one Thunder, however, so it may want to go for a KO in a pinch. If sun is up, Moltres may also want to stay in and bank on a 50% chance for Thunder to miss, which may open the gate for Moltres it to sweep.

**Specially defensive Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon like Blissey and Snorlax have a lot of natural Special Defense, which enables them to check Moltres. While Blissey checks Moltres defensively by shrugging off Fire Blast, Snorlax can hit Moltres with powerful STAB-boosted Normal-type attacks like Body Slam, Double-Edge, and even Self-Destruct. Snorlax needs to be careful of a Charcoal-boosted Fire Blast in the sun, which has high odds to 2HKO it after damage from Spikes.

**Gengar**: Gengar outspeeds Moltres and can attack it with a super effective Electric-type attack, use Explosion to remove it, or even take Moltres down with it by using Destiny Bond. Gengar can never switch into Moltres safely though, it and needs to be very healthy to take a hit. While sun is up, Gengar should never switch into Moltres.

**Pokemon with Rock-type attacks**: Machamp and Marowak can always take a hit from full and hit Moltres with a devastating 4x super effective Rock Slide. Neither of these Pokemon can switch into Moltres safely, however, because they risk being 2HKOed by Fire Blast.

**Fire-types**: Charizard is a great Moltres check because it can switch into Fire Blast safely from full, and it can outspeed and 2HKO it Moltres with Rock Slide. Entei resists any of Moltres's attacks, but it can't do too much damage back to Moltres. Still, it can be used in hopes that Moltres wastes its Fire Blast PP on it. Moltres can check itself, but that often results in a PP war.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Excal, 456373]]
- Quality checked by: [[BKC, 52012], [Earthworm, 15210]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

gp 1/2 once done
 
add remove comments
[OVERVIEW]

Moltres is GSC OU's most consistent Sunny Day attacker. It has the highest Special Attack out of any Fire-type, and with the help of Charcoal and Sunny Day, it has extremely high odds to 2HKO Snorlax after Spikes. Moltres's defensive stats are also quite solid, and its typing enables it to answer common threats like Exeggutor, Steelix, Forretress, and Heracross. In addition, it makes for a decent sleep absorber,(AC) and its Spikes immunity can be quite useful for longer games. Moltres best matches up versus offensive teams that lack Fire-type resists Fire-resistant Pokemon,(semicolon -> comma) in particular (RC) when Steelix is used as the only Normal-type resist check with a Zapdos / Snorlax / Cloyster core;(comma -> semicolon) unless Vaporeon or Charizard is used in one of the slots, the other two Pokemon likely do not resist Fire. Some examples of those Pokemon are Nidoking, Jynx, Exeggutor, Machamp, and Gengar. In addition, Moltres can wreak havoc versus traditional defensive teams that replace Suicune with Umbreon.

Despite Moltres's potential to 2HKO Snorlax, it's still not favored in a one-on-one matchup; its best chances are if sun has already been set up, but Snorlax can use Self-Destruct to take Moltres down with it. Usually its Moltres's only attack is Fire Blast, so Water- and Rock-types like Vaporeon, Suicune, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Golem will often stop Moltres it in its tracks. Moltres also struggles versus Zapdos and Raikou if they switch in safely, which as they outspeed it and threaten it with their powerful Electric-type attacks.

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Sunny Day
item: Charcoal

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

RestTalk is Moltres's most consistent moveset because of its overall longevity and ability to compensate for Sunny Day's and Fire Blast's low PP. The combination of Rest and Sleep Talk enables Moltres to check Pokemon like Exeggutor and Jynx, which would otherwise be a bit difficult to switch into. In addition, thanks to Sunny Day reducing Thunder's accuracy, Moltres can also absorb Nidoking's Lovely Kiss relatively well. If Nidoking tries to use Thief, it ends up stealing Charcoal, which significantly reduces Thief's effectiveness. Sunny Day significantly increases Moltres's damage output, which enables Moltres it to OHKO Cloyster and Gengar after Spikes, as well as 2HKO several Pokemon such as Machamp, Zapdos, and Raikou. With Charcoal, it even has high odds to 2HKO Snorlax after Spikes, which is significant in that no other Sunny Day attacker is capable of accomplishing that feat.

Although it may seem inconvenient for Moltres to use Sunny Day with Sleep Talk, this can be useful to restart Sunny Day's sun's timer and also make it more difficult for Pokemon like Zapdos, Raikou, Snorlax, and Nidoking to land Thunder. While Moltres is awake, try to conserve Sunny Day's and Fire Blast's PP carefully, as only 8 PP for each move is extremely low and may be difficult to manage in a long game. It may also be best to keep Moltres hidden as long as possible, because compared to other Pokemon, Moltres can become much easier to manage once it has been revealed.

Team Options
=========

For Moltres to successfully sweep a team, it needs quite a bit of support. Sleep inducers like Snorlax, Exeggutor, and Gengar make it easier to switch Moltres in and set up. As an added bonus, all of these Pokemon can use Explosion or Self-Destruct to potentially remove a Moltres check like Vaporeon, Suicune, Zapdos, and or Raikou. Cloyster is an almost mandatory teammate, as Spikes are what enable Moltres to have high odds at 2HKOing Snorlax. In addition, its Explosion is also very useful, especially for removing Moltres checks like Starmie, Vaporeon, and Suicune. Steelix's Steel / Ground typing supports Moltres with its Electric immunity and Normal and Rock-type resistances. It can often use a combination of Curse, Roar, and Explosion to force in and KO Zapdos, assisting in Moltres's eventual sweep. Other Ground-types like Nidoking and Golem can be useful to combat Electric-types; Nidoking can use Lovely Kiss and Golem can use Explosion to disrupt typical Moltres checks.(semicolon -> period) however However, combining a Ground-type with Moltres compounds a Water-type weakness, so consider that when building the rest of your team. Your own Raikou can support Moltres by shrugging off Electric-type attacks from Zapdos, using Roar to phaze the opposing team and identify Moltres checks early, and pressuring Water-types like Suicune and Vaporeon. Raikou can potentially use Hidden Power Water to lure in and remove Rock / Ground types(RH) like Rhydon and Golem, but both should be worn down slightly before using Hidden Power Water, as it is not a guaranteed OHKO. Also, Raikou should use Thunderbolt so as to not be messed up by your own Sunny Day sun. Moltres can directly support Tyranitar by using Sunny Day to weaken Water-type attacks and enable it to switch into Electric-types with slightly more ease. In particular In return, Tyranitar can switch into Starmie and threaten it with Pursuit and Crunch, which frees up Moltres and Cloyster significantly.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast for more PP and higher accuracy, but this is generally not worth it, as the additional power is extremely important and Moltres can somewhat compensate for Fire Blast's low PP with Rest and Sleep Talk. Leftovers can also be used over Charcoal for increased longevity at the expense of more power. Hidden Power Grass gives Moltres better coverage, enabling it to turn the tide against Rhydon, Golem, and Quagsire; however, the move is far too weak to make a significant difference versus Vaporeon, Starmie, and Suicune. Whirlwind is a decent option,(AC) since Moltres is able to force many switches with its offensive presence. Sleep Talk can be used without Rest on more offensive sets so it Moltres can still function as a sleep absorber, but the its longevity will be significantly hampered. Toxic could be used to cripple Rock-types like Rhydon, Golem, and Tyranitar, but it's quite difficult to find room for this move. Substitute is an interesting option alongside moves like Sunny Day and Toxic, which can potentially enable Moltres to more safely combat Electric-types like Zapdos and Raikou. Overall, however, Moltres has an extremely difficult time giving up any of its main moves (RC) and will lose a large portion of its effectiveness if any of them is replaced.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water-types**: Water-types like Vaporeon, Quagsire, Starmie, and Suicune can completely shut down Moltres, as they can shrug off Fire Blast, even in the sun, and hit Moltres with super effective Water-type attacks—or,(AC) in Quagsire's case, Hidden Power Rock.

**Rock-types**: Tyranitar, Golem, and Rhydon can check Moltres, as Fire Blast is usually its only attacking move. While Tyranitar and Rhydon can fire back with a 4x super effective Rock Slide, Golem almost always needs to use Explosion to remove Moltres.

**Electric-types**: Zapdos and Raikou both outspeed Moltres and can threaten it with powerful STAB-boosted Electric-type attacks. Moltres can deal massive damage back with Fire Blast, but Moltres it doesn't usually want to stay in and take an attack. Moltres is able to take one Thunder, however, so it may want to go for a KO in a pinch. If sun is up, Moltres may also want to stay in and bank on a 50% chance for Thunder to miss, which may open the gate for Moltres it to sweep.

**Specially defensive Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon like Blissey and Snorlax have a lot of natural Special Defense, which enables them to check Moltres. While Blissey checks Moltres defensively by shrugging off Fire Blast, Snorlax can hit Moltres with powerful STAB-boosted Normal-type attacks like Body Slam, Double-Edge, and even Self-Destruct. Snorlax needs to be careful of a Charcoal-boosted Fire Blast in the sun, which has high odds to 2HKO it after damage from Spikes.

**Gengar**: Gengar outspeeds Moltres and can attack it with a super effective Electric-type attack, use Explosion to remove it, or even take Moltres down with it by using Destiny Bond. Gengar can never switch into Moltres safely though, it and needs to be very healthy to take a hit. While sun is up, Gengar should never switch into Moltres.

**Pokemon with Rock-type attacks**: Machamp and Marowak can always take a hit from full and hit Moltres with a devastating 4x super effective Rock Slide. Neither of these Pokemon can switch into Moltres safely, however, because they risk being 2HKOed by Fire Blast.

**Fire-types**: Charizard is a great Moltres check because it can switch into Fire Blast safely from full, and it can outspeed and 2HKO it Moltres with Rock Slide. Entei resists any of Moltres's attacks, but it can't do too much damage back to Moltres. Still, it can be used in hopes that Moltres wastes its Fire Blast PP on it. Moltres can check itself, but that often results in a PP war.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Excal, 456373]]
- Quality checked by: [[BKC, 52012], [Earthworm, 15210]]
- Grammar checked by: [[, ], [, ]]

gp 1/2 once done
Thanks so much! This is now implemented and ready for the second check
 

Lumari

empty spaces
is a Site Content Manageris a Top Social Media Contributoris a Member of Senior Staffis a Community Contributoris a Top Contributoris a Top Smogon Media Contributoris an Administrator Alumnus
TFP Leader
remove add / fix (comments); (AC=add comma; RC=remove comma; SC=semicolon)
GP 2/2
[OVERVIEW]

Moltres is GSC OU's most consistent Sunny Day attacker. It has the highest Special Attack out of any Fire-type, and with the help of Charcoal and Sunny Day, it has extremely high odds to 2HKO Snorlax after Spikes. Moltres's defensive stats are also quite solid, and its typing enables it to answer common threats like Exeggutor, Steelix, Forretress, and Heracross. In addition, it makes for a decent sleep absorber, and its Spikes immunity can be quite useful for longer games. Moltres best matches up versus offensive teams that lack Fire-resistant Pokemon, in particular when Steelix is used as the only Normal-type check with a Zapdos / Snorlax / Cloyster core; unless Vaporeon or Charizard is used in one of the slots, the other two Pokemon likely do not resist Fire. Some examples of those Pokemon are Nidoking, Jynx, Exeggutor, Machamp, and Gengar. In addition, Moltres can wreak havoc versus traditional defensive teams that replace Suicune with Umbreon.

Despite Moltres's potential to 2HKO Snorlax, it's still not favored in a one-on-one matchup; its best chances are if sun has already been set up, but Snorlax can use Self-Destruct to take Moltres down with it. Usually Moltres's only attack is Fire Blast, so Water- and Rock-types like Vaporeon, Suicune, Tyranitar, Rhydon, and Golem will often stop it in its tracks. Moltres also struggles versus Zapdos and Raikou if they switch in safely, as they outspeed it and threaten it with their powerful Electric-type attacks.

[SET]
name: RestTalk
move 1: Rest
move 2: Sleep Talk
move 3: Fire Blast
move 4: Sunny Day
item: Charcoal

[SET COMMENTS]
Set Description
=========

RestTalk is Moltres's most consistent moveset because of its overall longevity and ability to compensate for Sunny Day's and Fire Blast's low PP. The combination of Rest and Sleep Talk enables Moltres to check Pokemon like Exeggutor and Jynx, which would otherwise be a bit difficult to switch into. In addition, thanks to Sunny Day reducing Thunder's accuracy, Moltres can also absorb Nidoking's Lovely Kiss relatively well. If Nidoking tries to use Thief, it ends up stealing Charcoal, which significantly reduces Thief's effectiveness. Sunny Day significantly increases Moltres's damage output, which enables it to OHKO Cloyster and Gengar after Spikes, as well as 2HKO several Pokemon such as Machamp, Zapdos, and Raikou. With Charcoal, it even has high odds to 2HKO Snorlax after Spikes, which is significant in that no other Sunny Day attacker is capable of accomplishing that feat.

Although it may seem inconvenient for Moltres to use Sunny Day with Sleep Talk, this can be useful to restart sun's timer and also make it more difficult for Pokemon like Zapdos, Raikou, Snorlax, and Nidoking to land Thunder. While Moltres is awake, try to conserve Sunny Day's and Fire Blast's PP carefully, as only 8 PP for each move is extremely low and may be difficult to manage in a long game. It may also be best to keep Moltres hidden as long as possible, because compared to other Pokemon, Moltres can become much easier to manage once it has been revealed.

Team Options
=========

For Moltres to successfully sweep a team, it needs quite a bit of support. Sleep inducers like Snorlax, Exeggutor, and Gengar make it easier to switch Moltres in and set up. As an added bonus, all of these Pokemon can use Explosion or Self-Destruct to potentially remove a Moltres check like Vaporeon, Suicune, Zapdos, or Raikou. Cloyster is an almost mandatory teammate, as Spikes are what enable Moltres to have high odds at 2HKOing Snorlax. In addition, its Explosion is also very useful, especially for removing Moltres checks like Starmie, Vaporeon, and Suicune. Steelix's Steel / Ground typing supports allows it to support Moltres with its Electric immunity and Normal and Rock resistances. It can often use a combination of Curse, Roar, and Explosion to force in and KO Zapdos, assisting in Moltres's eventual sweep. Other Ground-types like Nidoking and Golem can be useful to combat Electric-types; Nidoking can use Lovely Kiss, (AC) and Golem can use Explosion to disrupt typical Moltres checks. However, combining a Ground-type with Moltres compounds a Water-type weakness, so consider that when building the rest of your team. Your own Raikou can support Moltres by shrugging off Electric-type attacks from Zapdos, using Roar to phaze the opposing team and identify Moltres checks early, and pressuring Water-types like Suicune and Vaporeon. Raikou can potentially use Hidden Power Water to lure in and remove Rock / Ground types like Rhydon and Golem, but both should be worn down slightly before using Hidden Power Water the move, as it is not a guaranteed OHKO. Also, Raikou should use Thunderbolt over Thunder so as to not be messed up by your own sun. Moltres can directly support Tyranitar by using Sunny Day to weaken Water-type attacks and enable it to switch into Electric-types with slightly more ease. In return, Tyranitar can switch into Starmie and threaten it with Pursuit and Crunch, which frees up Moltres and Cloyster significantly.

[STRATEGY COMMENTS]
Other Options
=============

Flamethrower can be used over Fire Blast for more PP and higher accuracy, but this is generally not worth it, as the additional power is extremely important and Moltres can somewhat compensate for Fire Blast's low PP with Rest and Sleep Talk. Leftovers can also be used over Charcoal for increased longevity at the expense of more power. Hidden Power Grass gives Moltres better coverage, enabling it to turn the tide against Rhydon, Golem, and Quagsire; however, the move is far too weak to make a significant difference versus Vaporeon, Starmie, and Suicune. Whirlwind is a decent option, since Moltres is able to force many switches with its offensive presence. Sleep Talk can be used without Rest on more offensive sets so Moltres can still function as a sleep absorber, but its longevity will be significantly hampered. Toxic could be used to cripple Rock-types like Rhydon, Golem, and Tyranitar, but it's quite difficult to find room for this move. Substitute is an interesting option alongside moves like Sunny Day and Toxic, which can potentially enable Moltres to more safely combat Electric-types like Zapdos and Raikou. Overall, however, Moltres has an extremely difficult time giving up any of its main moves and will lose a large portion of its effectiveness if any of them is replaced.

Checks and Counters
===================

**Water-types**: Water-types like Vaporeon, Quagsire, Starmie, and Suicune can completely shut down Moltres, as they can shrug off Fire Blast, even in the sun, and hit Moltres with super effective Water-type attacks—or, in Quagsire's case, Hidden Power Rock.

**Rock-types**: Tyranitar, Golem, and Rhydon can check Moltres, as Fire Blast is usually its only attacking move. While Tyranitar and Rhydon can fire back with a 4x super effective Rock Slide, Golem almost always needs to use Explosion to remove Moltres.

**Electric-types**: Zapdos and Raikou both outspeed Moltres and can threaten it with powerful STAB-boosted Electric-type attacks. While Moltres can deal massive damage back with Fire Blast, but it doesn't usually want to stay in and take an attack. Moltres is able to take one Thunder, however, so it may want to go for a KO in a pinch. If sun is up, Moltres may also want to stay in and bank on a 50% chance for Thunder to miss, which may open the gate for it to sweep.

**Specially Defensive Pokemon**: Pokemon like Blissey and Snorlax have a lot of natural Special Defense, which enables them to check Moltres. While Blissey checks Moltres defensively by shrugging off Fire Blast, Snorlax can hit Moltres with powerful STAB-boosted Normal-type attacks like Body Slam, Double-Edge, and even Self-Destruct. Snorlax needs to be careful of a Charcoal-boosted Fire Blast in the sun, though, which has high odds to 2HKO it after damage from Spikes.

**Gengar**: Gengar outspeeds Moltres and can attack it with a super effective Electric-type attack, use Explosion to remove it, or even take Moltres down with it by using Destiny Bond. Gengar can never switch into Moltres safely, (AC) though; it needs to be very healthy to take a hit. While sun is up, Gengar should never switch into Moltres.

**Pokemon with Rock-type attacks**: Machamp and Marowak can always take a hit from full and hit Moltres with a devastating 4x super effective Rock Slide. Neither of these Pokemon can switch into Moltres safely, however, because they risk being 2HKOed by Fire Blast.

**Fire-types**: Charizard is a great Moltres check because it can switch into Fire Blast safely from full, and it can outspeed and 2HKO Moltres with Rock Slide. Entei resists any of Moltres's attacks, but it can't do too much damage back to Moltres. Still, it can be used in hopes that Moltres wastes its Fire Blast PP on it. Moltres can check itself, but that often results in a PP war.

[CREDITS]
- Written by: [[Excal, 456373]]
- Quality checked by: [[BKC, 52012], [Earthworm, 15210]]
- Grammar checked by: [[Rabia, 336073], [, ]]
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top