All Gens Most Dominant Pokemon in History II

Now that BW is here in RoA, we can probably more easily make a top 10 (it's harder with an even 4 gens than 5).

Same rules, we're just looking at Pokemon in OU from the 5 past gens. Performance in XY is irrelevant. Having a stint in Ubers (like Celebi or Salamence) won't really count against a mon, but it's not a strong case for it since they aren't dominating OU (otherwise, MewTwo and friends are ruling the list).

Before making the actual list, we'll just discuss a few mons worth noting that have a good shot at making the top 10. Probably sometime tomorrow or a couple days from now depending on how discussion goes, I'll switch the topic to debating the number 1 slot, and from there we'll continue down our list. For now, let's keep this general and not get into specific rankings~
 
Ttar is obviously making this list, as its dominance in the 4 gens it existed in is just undisputed. Although it wasn't around for RBY, it's still an incredibly solid Pokemon.

Jirachi is in a similar boat, I think, though its lack of existence in RBY and GSC puts it in a worse position.

Gengar and Starmie are the only 2 mons to make OU in every gen, and they really shined as top contenders in some of them. I think we can safely assume both will be hitting this list.

Skarmory is an interesting one. Although it's never been a top mon, it's always been solid. Unlike Blissey, it isn't just setup bait when walling things. That said, Blissey in ADV could at least pull off offensive CM. Chansey will be counted separately from Blissey, but this time it actually looks a little better. It's a fantastic mon in RBY and takes hits better than Bliss in BW. Still, that's not enough to make an impact on the list imo. From the defensive side of things, Forretress is also an interesting mon to chat about.

Snorlax has a very strong position in GSC and RBY, plus it's still good in ADV. DPP and BW it steadily declined, but I think we can safely assume that champ will still make the cut for top 10.

There will definitely be some debatable ones as well, such as Exeggutor and Heatran. They both have two gens where they were great, but is that enough?

Zapdos, Suicune, and Celebi are some other good mons that also have a good shot at making the cut, off the top of my head~
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Gyarados now has 3 good gens under its belt, and Gen 4 in particular was very kind to it. Gen 4 is the only one where it's truly dominant due to its ability to do both offense and defense, though. Gen 3 it's a Mence that can beat Swampert, whereas Gen 5 it has new walls and has to compete with a bunch of other waters buffed by rain.

If we're going to be talking about Heatran, we should also be talking about Scizor and Rotom-W. Possibly also Breloom and Hippowdon.

Dragonite definitely needs to be considered seriously. It finally got its straight-up dominant gen with BW, and it doesn't really have a bad gen prior to that (unless you count Wrap-less RBY). At worst it's mostly outclassed save for one redeeming factor (Gen 3, Gen 4 pre-Mence ban).
 
Ttar is easily N°1 imo, it's like A/S rank in ADV / DPP / BW and it's really the mon dominant mon all-around.
 

Inspirited

There is usually higher ground.
is a Contributor Alumnus
I think Aerodactyl should also be seriously considered for a lower rank but a rank on the list nonetheless. It is a terror in RBY because of its stupid Crit Rate, because of its stupid Speed, and its decent Attack to go along with it. It fell in GSC, but it became a terror, once again, in ADV where it got Choice Band an Rock Slide; arguably making it the best sweeper in the game. Aerodactyl was also the most consistent Stealth Rocking lead in DPP. It also had a pretty amazing stallbreaking set and made a nasty sub rooster with sand being everywhere due to Tyranitar. Aero had a very good run in 3 out of the 5 gens in question, which should probably give it precedent over Breloom or Heatran in my opinion.
 
Cune will definitely make the list, CroCune was pure insanity in gen 3, and Cune was a great wall in GSC. CroCune still gets decent work done in DPP too.
 

Jorgen

World's Strongest Fairy
is a Forum Moderator Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Contributor Alumnusis a Past SPL Champion
Yeah, Aero's not in the running for any spot on the list. The only gen where Aero is good is Gen 3.

Aero is pretty bad in RBY, a far cry from dominant. It has interesting traits that make it not complete trash, but you will see it in maybe 1% of your friendly matches.

Gen 4, more than anything else it was a fad that caught on because Mence was so damn good. Modern DPP nobody would be caught dead leading Aero (or any suicide SR lead, for that matter). Playing 5v6 just to get turn 1 SR is so not worth it.
 

Bedschibaer

NAME = FUCK
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I strongly disagree with Aerodactyl, it wasn't "a terror" in RBY since it had to rely on Sky Attack as its only good STAB move. Even things like Dugtrio or Dodrio are better than it and they aren't even in the top 10 cut for RBY mons. In GSC it was straight garbage. In ADV it's definitely one of the top threats, but in DPP i wouldn't consider it a top 10 pokemon either. It does make a good lead, that is for sure, but that doesn't make it a rather dominant mon in that gen. It didn't change at all in BW, only that the presence of new threats let it go down in every viability rating too.
Sniped by jorgen but i already typed that out so i am going to post it :mad:
 

Isa

I've never felt better in my life
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
Interesting topic. Sending in Zapdos. Great in all first four gens with a peak in GSC at second, best mixed attacker in RBY and still a potent threat in ADV as well as DPP while running many different sets. Should be rankrd higher than Gyarados at least.

TTar is first for sure though.
 

MoxieInfinite

Banned deucer.
Cloyster is up there too I'd say, as an "is there" mon in 4/5 gens. Decent in RBY if you wanna fuck with Tauros/Clamp shit, great in GSC obviously, fun in ADV if you wanna fuck with the teams that run Mag with no spinner, idk about DPP, and pretty OK in BW too I guess.
Should be under consideration for Top 10 at least. idk.
 
Tyranitar and Gengar are high rank. Starmie is very good at RBY, good GSC, average ADV, very good DPP, good BW. Skarmory and Blissey are good also.

I ll mention more later
 
  • Tyranitar
  • Gengar
  • Starmie
  • Skarmory
  • Snorlax
  • Jirachi
  • Suicune
  • Zapdos
  • Rotom-W
  • Cloyster (Heatran)
In a rough order, that is my personal list.
 

McMeghan

Dreamcatcher
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Top Tiering Contributor Alumnusis an Administrator Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnusis a Battle Simulator Moderator Alumnusis the 5th Smogon Classic Winneris the Smogon Tour Season 14 Championis a defending SPL Championis a Past SPL Champion
Big Chungus Winner
To accomplish a list, I reviewed every OU tiers from RBY to BW and tried to retain the Pokemons I personally found great in at least 3 generations, which gave me this list:
Blissey GSC/ADV/DPP/~BW
Celebi ADV/DPP/BW
Cloyster RBY/GSC/~ADV/~~BW
Dragonite RBY/DPP/~ADV/BW
Forretress GSC/ADV/DPP/BW
Gengar RBY/GSC/ADV/DPP/BW
Gyarados ~ADV/DPP/BW
Jirachi ADV/DPP/BW
Jolteon RBY/GSC/ADV/DPP
Raikou GSC/ADV/~DPP
Skarmory GSC/ADV/DPP/BW
Snorlax RBY/GSC/ADV/~DPP
Starmie RBY/GSC/ADV/DPP/BW
Suicune GSC/ADV/DPP
Tyranitar GSC/ADV/DPP/BW
Vaporeon GSC/~ADV/DPP/~BW
Zapdos RBY/GSC/ADV/DPP/~BW

If I had to rank them, I'd probably make this top 10:
  1. Tyranitar
    Main force of ADV, one of the main force of DPP and BW, and a great pokemon in GSC.
  2. Gengar
    One of the main force in ADV, great in GSC/DPP/BW, solid in RBY.
  3. Snorlax
    Main force of GSC, one of the main force of RBY and ADV, usable in DPP, could see it in #2 spot as it shapes GSC as much as Ttar shapes ADV.
  4. Zapdos
    One of the main force of GSC and ADV, great pokemon in RBY and DPP, usable in BW.
  5. Starmie
    One of the main force of DPP, great pokemon in RBY and BW, solid in GSC and ADV.
  6. Suicune
    One of the main force of ADV, wins games by itself there. Great in GSC and DPP.
  7. Celebi
    See above, replace GSC with BW.
  8. Skarmory
    Metagame-definer in ADV, great in everything else bar RBY for obvious reasons.
  9. Blissey
    See above, except it doesn't do as well in BW, but it's still solid there.
  10. Jirachi (but could see Forre/Cloyster there)
    One of the main force of BW, great in ADV and DPP.
 
regarding dpp aero: i wouldnt say the suicide lead is bad at all if you build with it right. the point is to get rocks while denying your opponent his (duh) and against certain players that is ridiculously deadly, since once aero goes down you immediately send in a dangerous threat and start putting the pressure on with rocks up. this can be very hard to recover from, (especially if youre packing some uturners) if played with proper aggression. aero is also a very good lo attacker and the subroost set is my baby.

for me, from best to worst: tyranitar/starmie/gengar/zapdos/snorlax/skarmory/blissey/suicune/celebi/jirachi
 
To accomplish a list, I reviewed every OU tiers from RBY to BW and tried to retain the Pokemons I personally found great in at least 3 generations, which gave me this list:
Blissey GSC/ADV/DPP/~BW
Celebi ADV/DPP/BW
Cloyster RBY/GSC/~ADV/~~BW
Dragonite RBY/DPP/~ADV/BW
Forretress GSC/ADV/DPP/BW
Gengar RBY/GSC/ADV/DPP/BW
Gyarados ~ADV/DPP/BW
Jirachi ADV/DPP/BW
Jolteon RBY/GSC/ADV/DPP
Raikou GSC/ADV/~DPP
Skarmory GSC/ADV/DPP/BW
Snorlax RBY/GSC/ADV/~DPP
Starmie RBY/GSC/ADV/DPP/BW
Suicune GSC/ADV/DPP
Tyranitar GSC/ADV/DPP/BW
Vaporeon GSC/~ADV/DPP/~BW
Zapdos RBY/GSC/ADV/DPP/~BW

If I had to rank them, I'd probably make this top 10:
  1. Tyranitar
    Main force of ADV, one of the main force of DPP and BW, and a great pokemon in GSC.
  2. Gengar
    One of the main force in ADV, great in GSC/DPP/BW, solid in RBY.
  3. Snorlax
    Main force of GSC, one of the main force of RBY and ADV, usable in DPP, could see it in #2 spot as it shapes GSC as much as Ttar shapes ADV.
  4. Zapdos
    One of the main force of GSC and ADV, great pokemon in RBY and DPP, usable in BW.
  5. Starmie
    One of the main force of DPP, great pokemon in RBY and BW, solid in GSC and ADV.
  6. Suicune
    One of the main force of ADV, wins games by itself there. Great in GSC and DPP.
  7. Celebi
    See above, replace GSC with BW.
  8. Skarmory
    Metagame-definer in ADV, great in everything else bar RBY for obvious reasons.
  9. Blissey
    See above, except it doesn't do as well in BW, but it's still solid there.
  10. Jirachi (but could see Forre/Cloyster there)
    One of the main force of BW, great in ADV and DPP.
I liked this ranking, I only would change Starmie > Zapdos and Heatran in 10° Slot, maybe*.
 
I think Rachi is more than "just great" in DPP and I think Lax in GSC is far more metagame-defining than Ttar in ADV.
As a filthy casual to GSC and ADV, whose only experience is watching hundreds of, but never participating in, battles, I see Lax in literally almost every team in GSC, can't say the same about ADV. That is my expert input of the day.
 
I think Aerodactyl should also be seriously considered for a lower rank but a rank on the list nonetheless. It is a terror in RBY because of its stupid Crit Rate, because of its stupid Speed, and its decent Attack to go along with it.
Read its RBY movepool (or maybe even, y'know, use it) before making these sort of stupid remarks. Aerodactyl in RBY doesn't get Rock Slide or any other Rock STAB (and even if it did get RS it doesn't flinch yet), it doesn't get Earthquake, and it doesn't get any Flying STAB besides Sky Attack (which, given its usual switch-ins are Rhydon and Golem, usually means it'll be trapped while it does minimal damage and takes a STAB Rock Slide to the face). It does get Double-Edge but a) DE is only 100 BP in RBY b) no Rock Head.

Aero is garbage in RBY because its typing wants it to be a wall, its stats want it to be a sweeper, and its movepool wants it to be a derp.

Cloyster is up there too I'd say, as an "is there" mon in 4/5 gens. Decent in RBY if you wanna fuck with Tauros/Clamp shit, great in GSC obviously, fun in ADV if you wanna fuck with the teams that run Mag with no spinner, idk about DPP, and pretty OK in BW too I guess.
Should be under consideration for Top 10 at least. idk.
Cloyster's definitely decent in RBY (Clamp's devastating, and it's the only Water that Explodes), but on a technical note it's probably only the fourth-best Tauros check/counter after Starmie, Slowbro, and Articuno. Snorlax/Rocks and to some degree Egg are where Cloyster really shines.

Tyranitar
Main force of ADV, one of the main force of DPP and BW, and a great pokemon in GSC.
Gengar
One of the main force in ADV, great in GSC/DPP/BW, solid in RBY.
Gar in RBY is probs better than Tar in GSC. Huge skill dependence tho.
 

Isa

I've never felt better in my life
is a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Community Leader Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnus
TTar in GSC is absolutely better than Gengar is in RBY, it's not even close. If you rank how many Pokémon are better than TTar in GSC you might end up with a number resembling how many Pokémon are better than Gengar in RBY, but Tyranitar is simply better. Gengar is meh if it cannot block booms or Wrappers, Tyranitar walls common Lax variants (which is huge) and Pursuits for team support (can be huge if you build a team to take advantage of it).

I'd steal McMeghan's list and take out Blissey (it's not too good in GSC overall) and replace it with Forretress (while never dominating, always solid AFAIK). I don't think Cloyster makes it.
 
This one may be a bit odd but maybe Vaporeon could be considered. Vaporeon never really stood out but it has been OU for almost all of it's career ( Wasn't OU in gen 1 though and was pretty garb in generation 5 ). In generation 1 Vaporeon wasn't really OU material but it was really freaking good in UU. In generation 2 Vaporeon was a great Growth sweeper and it was probably Vaporeon's best generation. In Generation 3 vaporeon lost Growth so it's role changed to more of a defensive role. Vaporeon again wasn't the best in generation 3 but still pretty solid. Generation 4 Vaporeon was pretty much the same as generation 3. As for generation 5 Vaporeon sucked but at least it wasn't terribly unusable so yay. Honestly Vaporeon isn't the best but it may be a solid contender.
 
TTar in GSC is absolutely better than Gengar is in RBY, it's not even close. If you rank how many Pokémon are better than TTar in GSC you might end up with a number resembling how many Pokémon are better than Gengar in RBY, but Tyranitar is simply better. Gengar is meh if it cannot block booms or Wrappers, Tyranitar walls common Lax variants (which is huge) and Pursuits for team support (can be huge if you build a team to take advantage of it).
Gengar is a decent lead (one of only four viable). Sleep and Explosion give team support. Walls a whole bunch of niche threats (Nite, Cloy, Bel, Persian, Kingler) as well as helping vs. the Waters (non-Psychic Starmie, Lapras, Cloyster, Slowbro, Articuno) - that's a lot of Pokemon even if they're rare. There are pretty much no viable teams that don't use Explosion, and Explosion does considerable damage even to Rhydon, so it's a big deal there - and if your opponent is more reluctant to boom because of your Gar, you still profit from that.

Tyranitar is somewhat useful on defense against some forms of Lax but really it's not doing any better than, say, RBY Gengar is doing against Lapras. It can't actually beat Lax unless it CurseRoars and if it CurseRoars then either it's got no coverage and is (even more) useless offensively, or it gives up Pursuit and has no support role - and let's not forget, it's vulnerable to all forms of residual damage and can't run Rest unless it gives up both coverage and Pursuit. Pursuit is good, yes, but it's not nearly as good as it could be since Tyranitar's typing makes it vulnerable to Starmie's Surf and Exeggutor's Giga Drain. It's useful for getting rid of Gengar (except if it DPunches, or if it sleeps Tar) and somewhat useful for getting rid of Missy, but that's about it.

GSC Tyranitar would be better than RBY Gengar if it had like 8 moveslots and ran Rock Slide/Earthquake/Curse/Roar/Crunch/Pursuit/Thunderbolt/Rest. In practice? Not so much.

I don't think Cloyster makes it.
Good in RBY, great in GSC, and at least pretty good in BW - and I've seen it suggested in ADV as well as a trapper-proof Spiker.
 

Bedschibaer

NAME = FUCK
is a Social Media Contributor Alumnusis a Forum Moderator Alumnus
I don't think cloyster belongs on the list since there is really only one gen where it is dominant at all. It's far away from being a top 10 mon in both ADV and BW, despite having a niche in both. In DPP it's not complete shit but it's still irrelevant and i wouldn't call it top tier in RBY either. In GSC it is like top 4-5. I'd rather include Heatran to the list than Cloyster, since it's top dog in one generation and still easily top 10 in a second one.
 
Yeah, Cloyster is pretty mediocre in BW OU, to be honest. Not extremely bad, but not that good either. It just has a hard time setting up against a lot of teams given its Stealth Rock weaknesses, other fairly common weaknesses, and horrible special bulk. Not to mention the defense drops of Shell Smash make it way easier to keep in check (White Herb is bad). It has coverage issues with several common top tier Pokemon such as Keldeo and Jirachi, and I've found that it often relies on King's Rock flinch hax to get past a lot of checks. It can sweep when you play it right, but there are just so many other sweepers in BW OU that can net better results for less risk that Cloyster just gets left in the dust. Past that, it just doesn't "feel" like a truly dominating Pokemon from what I've played. I can't really speak for GSC or ADV since I haven't played either that much, but...well, pretty much what Bedshibaer said. It has a decent niche in RBY as an answer to Tauros and Snorlax and such, but it's not truly amazing and really suffers if you're playing with partial-trapping moves banned. It's virtually non-existent in DPP OU and not really spectacular in BW OU either.

Since Heatran has been brought up, perhaps Garchomp deserves consideration? It's true that it was banned during DPP, but while it was there, it pretty much ran the show all on its own. I can't speak too much for it because I didn't play much competitively back then at all (I really got started towards the tail end of the Salamence era), but from what I've heard from friends of mine that played a lot back then, it wasn't strange to see half a team or more devoted to Garchomp, supporting Garchomp, and checking Garchomp. Even in BW OU, it's at least top 5. It's such an easy Pokemon to slap onto a team and can fulfill so many roles that it's easy to find room for it. In the BW OU Viability Ranking thread, I quoted a post Chou Toshio made back in the day where he did well to explain why Garchomp was a central cog in the OU metagame, and I completely agree. It's sort of a tricky case because it was absent the first three generations and banned for much of its debut generation (and for a solid chunk of BW as well), but whenever it was in OU in both DPP and BW, it was consistently a dominating Pokemon and easy top tier.
 

Jirachee

phoenix reborn
is a Forum Moderatoris a Tiering Contributoris a Top Tutor Alumnusis a Tournament Director Alumnusis a Top Team Rater Alumnusis a Senior Staff Member Alumnusis a Community Contributor Alumnusis a Dedicated Tournament Host Alumnus
not a huge fan of adding gen 4 mons, they're only in 2 gens which doesn't really make them comparable to the others.

I agree that Cloyster is not very good in BW. It definitely should be UU, but fsr ladder people liked to use it as a sash lead w/ shell smash lol. I don't think it's unusable but the metagame is just so unkind to it. IDK RBY but it's top tier in GSC, has a great niche in ADV, and is absolute garbdix in DPP. It just seems average everywhere except for GSC which makes me think it doesn't really belongs there

I'd make a case for Salamence, because while it was banned in DPP it was actually OU until like 2 months before BW came out, and it was the metagame defining Dragon. It's also p good in ADV, but average in BW, so IDK

The mon I'd add would definitely be Dragonite. Dragonite is good in RBY, meh in GSC / ADV, and then in DPP and BW it just won't calm down. Easy metagame definer in both gens thanks to the broken Dragon typing and stupidly good ability in BW. I don't think anyone likes to play against Dragonite in any of those gens. I think that the RBY viability + DPP / BW viability is enough to get one of the lower spots on the list. Also it can work in ADV on weird double dragon shenanigans!!!

McM's list is good though.
 
I think there's a case for 2-gen dominant mons that were just really solid. I'd side more with newer mons than older ones in such a case, though. 1-gen mons like Keldeo can sod off.

For instance, Heatran's got DPP in the bag and is v good in BW. Scizor's in almost the same boat, but given its position in GSC and ADV, it just feels almost deceptive to toss it in above Heatran. Another example would be Eggy, which rocked out hard in RBY and GSC as a top 4-5 mon, but then just fell off the map completely.

Rotom-W is an interesting case, but I really think it depends on how we rank the appliances in general. Rotom-H is a big part of why Rotom-A is so popular in DPP in general, since it scares Forry (common spinner), Scizor (common Pursuiter), and to a lesser extent threatening mons like Jirachi and Breloom. Rotom-W still has the nicer matchup vs Ttar (dominant mon and also common Pursuiter / Cruncher) and Heatran (most common), and to a lesser extent guys like Hippo.

How should we rank Rotom-A? In DPP, it's a matter of moveset, but in BW, it's a case of typing and totally different viability. It's still technically the same mon (hell, same mon as Rotom itself), so I don't mind just flat-out ranking it as Rotom. We have to figure out where it stands, though, cuz Rotom-W by itself doesn't seem like it'll match up with Heatran, which seems like is scratching at the bottom of a top 10 as is. Rotom-F wouldn't touch this list unless it's looped in with a general Rotom dominance :P

Garchomp is banned in DPP, so I'd rather not include it. It only has 1 gen of dominance. While it totally dictated teambuilding in DPP pre-ban, I'm looking more at the current state of old gen OUs overall. Performance before a ban can lend some cred to a mon, but nowhere near enough to call it actually dominant just because it's no longer dominant in the official final meta. It's enough to give a little extra credit to say Celebi, but just not enough for something that only has 1 final OU of kicking ass.

I also saw mention of UU performance earlier, so I'll just clarify that that has absolutely no bearing on this list, since we're just looking at OU. If it did, Eggy actually looks even sadder anyway ;-;

I'm gonna leave the general chat going for a few days cuz I'm liking the discussion here so far and I think it's important we all agree on standards first~
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 1, Guests: 0)

Top