Resource National Dex AG Viability Rankings [DLC I]

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Spyro

Banned deucer.
Dude stop putting words in my mouth lol. I never thought Ray was better than Yveltal. Dynamax Yveltal is obviously better. I was simply saying Ray is harder to handle than Pdon and Ho-Oh. I mean can you disagree with that with a straight face or am I crazy? And RH doesn´t really matter. What you take the same damage as Life Orb? it´s really not a big deal so idk why you keep bringing up that EQ is better just to avoid RH damage. Also Necrozma can just tank an EQ. It´s better to hit it with V-create. So that leaves only PDon which gets hit hard by DM or DA anyway. So it´s far from a problem that Rayquaza can´t run EQ V create and DM on the same set like you claim it is.
 
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Guard

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Enough, this has gone on for far too long and noone is getting wiser from it. We will be including Mega Rayquaza to S- in our slate, so there is no reason to beat the horse to death or resort to ad hominems. Please keep discussion civil and relevant from now on.
 

Kate

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:sm/giratina:
D --> B-

Giratina has literally no business being so low, it acts as a fantastic glue mon to most stalls and bulky balances, reliably checks meta threats in ho oh, dm, pdon, and zacian, defogs vs most HO and all Balances. It has so much going for it that I really don't have much to say. It's good, plain and simple, and VR should reflect this.
 
:sm/giratina:
D --> B-

Giratina has literally no business being so low, it acts as a fantastic glue mon to most stalls and bulky balances, reliably checks meta threats in ho oh, dm, pdon, and zacian, defogs vs most HO and all Balances. It has so much going for it that I really don't have much to say. It's good, plain and simple, and VR should reflect this.
While it seems this way on paper, giratina is simply too weak to so many top threats like yveltal, Eternatus, zacian, xerneas. I could go on and on but to put it shortly : it has a poor match up vs the majority of the tier and ho-oh being so splashable isn't helping it
 
Magearna Unranked -> D

was tempted to say even higher tbh because this mon is incredibly versatile in the current meta. Whether it’s simply used as a spdef wall for things like Yveltal or Xerneas,or used as a viable trick room setter, potential sweeper, or used for its newly released shift gear bp set, Magearna has multiple niches that make it deserving of being ranked. On balance teams especially it provides a great check for the biggest balance breakers (xern/yveltal) and has bp as an incredible pivot option so that pdon never comes in for free anymore with no more need for volt switch. With hyper offensive teams Magearna provides multiple uses as I stated before. Magearna is one of the best trick room setters there is right now. Magearna also gains bp, which is huge for pivoting but also is amazing when paired with shift gear + common meta breakers such as Mega-Rayquaza, marshadow, zacian, and more. For now I’ll simply nom to D but in the future this mon should be considered for possibly C or more depending on how the meta evolves.
 
Magearna Unranked -> D

was tempted to say even higher tbh because this mon is incredibly versatile in the current meta. Whether it’s simply used as a spdef wall for things like Yveltal or Xerneas,or used as a viable trick room setter, potential sweeper, or used for its newly released shift gear bp set, Magearna has multiple niches that make it deserving of being ranked. On balance teams especially it provides a great check for the biggest balance breakers (xern/yveltal) and has bp as an incredible pivot option so that pdon never comes in for free anymore with no more need for volt switch. With hyper offensive teams Magearna provides multiple uses as I stated before. Magearna is one of the best trick room setters there is right now. Magearna also gains bp, which is huge for pivoting but also is amazing when paired with shift gear + common meta breakers such as Mega-Rayquaza, marshadow, zacian, and more. For now I’ll simply nom to D but in the future this mon should be considered for possibly C or more depending on how the meta evolves.
Since replays are mandatory, I thought I'd echo this and tack on this replay of the Baton Pass set:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1137033866
After Deoxys-S does its thing, Magearna passes a Shift Gear for Yveltal to break down the opposing team with Dynamax earlygame, and a Marshadow countersweep is blocked by Sash Mega Ray (whose presence Deoxys-S accommodates). A couple of Xerneas Thunder misses put Magearna's team on the back foot, but Magearna is able to use defensive Nec-DM as setup fodder before Baton Passing for Arceus-Ghost to clean.
 
While it seems this way on paper, giratina is simply too weak to so many top threats like yveltal, Eternatus, zacian, xerneas. I could go on and on but to put it shortly : it has a poor match up vs the majority of the tier and ho-oh being so splashable isn't helping it
Both Yveltal and Xerneas are irrelevant since they have no true counters, so being weak to them isn't really a problem, since most Pokemon are weak to them. Giratina can Will-O-Wisp Zacian-C on the switch, so Zacian-C is not a counter.
Smog Issue 32 said:
Pokémon A counters Pokémon B if Pokémon A can manually switch into Pokémon B and still win every time, even under the worst case scenario, without factoring in hax.
Giratina beats Ho-Oh, not the other way around. Of course, Giratina isn't perfect. It is setup food for mons that don't care about being burned like Primal Kyogre.
 
While it seems this way on paper, giratina is simply too weak to so many top threats like yveltal, Eternatus, zacian, xerneas. I could go on and on but to put it shortly : it has a poor match up vs the majority of the tier and ho-oh being so splashable isn't helping it
Both Yveltal and Xerneas are irrelevant since they have no true counters, so being weak to them isn't really a problem, since most Pokemon are weak to them. Giratina can Will-O-Wisp Zacian-C on the switch, so Zacian-C is not a counter.

Giratina beats Ho-Oh, not the other way around. Of course, Giratina isn't perfect. It is setup food for mons that don't care about being burned like Primal Kyogre.
Just want to add as well to this that due to Zacian-C often passing up Play Rough in favour of coverage, Giratina actually checks (beats if given a free switch into) Zacian-C just fine. As long as it doesn't have to switch into a Dark move it can handle Zacian-C.
+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Behemoth Blade vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 210-247 (41.7 - 49.1%) -- 80.9% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Crunch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 224-264 (44.5 - 52.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
+1 252+ Atk Zacian-Crowned Assurance (60 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Giratina: 168-198 (33.3 - 39.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
Both Yveltal and Xerneas are irrelevant since they have no true counters, so being weak to them isn't really a problem, since most Pokemon are weak to them. Giratina can Will-O-Wisp Zacian-C on the switch, so Zacian-C is not a counter.

Giratina beats Ho-Oh, not the other way around. Of course, Giratina isn't perfect. It is setup food for mons that don't care about being burned like Primal Kyogre.
Ah. When I mentioned ho-oh I meant that it has very fierce competition as a defogger.

Not being able to check something is one thing. Being weak to it is another. And believe me I would love for me to be wrong since gira is one of my favourite Pokemon but it's got an relatively poor typing with no notable resistances.
 

Kate

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Haiii, it's no secret that VR is pretty outdated at this point. We're getting an update Post-AGPL, but to get VR accurate nominations should be made throughout the weeks. Let me start with probably the two most glaring ones:

:sm/arceus: Fairceus to B+ and Darkceus to A-

The support arc meta of last gen has seen a revival, and these two are at the forefront of it. Both of them boast multiple viable sets, running CM, WhirlSong for Darkceus, and regular support sets. Zacian still does hurt these, but they go positive against a large majority of the meta. Darkceus in particular is becoming a metagame staple; CM sets are more deadly than last gen and its support options are overall very nice. I think these should be an obvious rise for any player who's been playing the meta as of late.

Some other things I'm less sure on is Dropping Zygarde and dropping Yveltal. Pdon rising is another thing that I'd keep my eye on. I'd love to know y'alls thoughts on these!
 

Geysers

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:ss/tyranitar: —> A-
This mon is easily one of the most splashable Yveltal checks in the tier, reliably checking sets that opt to run taunt or knock off, both of which Chansey can struggle with. The value of having a reliable stop to the big bacon birb in the current metagame cannot be understated, and Tyranitar offers more value than just that. It can also serve as a stealth-rocker, and it can pursuit-trap weakened threats while punishing potential switch-ins with Rock Tomb or Foul Play. In building recently, I’ve struggled to find room for Chansey on anything other than full stall, owing to its extreme passivity and the fact that it invites Zacian in for free, neither of which apply to Tyranitar, as it can punish Zacian for switching in with either Foul Play or Rock Tomb. While on paper, Tyranitar has poor synergy with other common defensive Pokemon like Necrozma-DM, owing to its sand reducing morning sun recovery, in practice, Tyranitar‘s sand doesn’t linger long enough after it switches out to be a serious detriment. Additionally, while Tyranitar seems like it should invite in Primal Groudom, it’s calable of punishing that switch with hefty damage from foul play, or by reducing Primal Groudon’s speed with Rock Tomb so that it can be more easily dealt with by other pokemon. Tyranitar is also one of the few reliable checks to non-Focus Blast Mega Mewtwo Y, which is an incredibly useful role in a metagame where many teams struggle to handle MMY’s oppressive power. Overall, I think Tyranitar is easily the most reliable Yveltal check in the current metagame, a role which, alongside its great utility, should easily merit a rise to A-.
 
Dropping Yveltal is still a no from me. It's the most dangerous offensive threat in the game, and the VR should reflect that.
Dropping Zygod? I'm not sure. Perhaps it fits less well into this back-to-default-AG phase of as many Arceus as possible. But I just think it hasn't been bought, not that it isn't performing (plus the fact that people are FINALLY prepping for DD). Perhaps the top of S- for now, as I still believe it is the best wall and wincon in the tier (and makes you not lose to Eruption/Stone Edge Pdon).
And with support/setup Arceus forms on the rise:
Gengar-Mega to A-
It makes sense to rise their best abuser.
Edit: Also Nec-DM to S this thing is mandatory.
 
:gothitelle: to A-

I'm confounded as to how this thing isn't A. It requires a minuscule amount of team support since it forces it's own match ups. The amount of Pokemon that are benefited is insane.

It traps arceus, defensnive dusk man, ho'oh, lugia and hell even heavily annoys ditto and cripples it due to struggle vs struggle
 

ADF Test

Banned deucer.
:mewtwo-mega-y: B- to B+
Reason being for this quirky choice is because of how well it can chew through most balances/bulk offences nowadays. With the increased popularity of SpDef Ho-Oh and SpDef supportceus and Groundceus and Physdef DM, you can run this special set and cripple a lot of things until a dynamax user comes in, but even then most walls that dynamax can't really hold back this beast for too long. MMY literally 2HKOs just about every relevant wall/support mon in the meta with almost any set being very effective.
+2 252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 450-531 (113 - 133.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Focus Blast vs. 240 HP / 180+ SpD Arceus-Dark: 476-560 (107.9 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 200+ Def Ho-Oh: 358-423 (86.2 - 101.9%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psystrike vs. 248 HP / 200 Def Ho-Oh: 393-463 (94.6 - 111.5%) -- 68.8% chance to OHKO
+2 252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Arceus-Water: 283-334 (63.7 - 75.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
+2 252 SpA Mewtwo-Mega-Y Psystrike vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Ferrothorn: 174-206 (49.4 - 58.5%) -- 68.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 76 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psystrike
- Fire Blast
- Focus Blast

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 76 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psystrike
- Recover
- Focus Blast

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 76 Def / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Psystrike
- Recover
- Focus Blast

:Arceus-Steel: (steel) UR to D
Arceus-Steel has the potential to be an amazing late game sweeper like other CM Arceuses such as Flying and Water. With its toxic immunity, it has the availability to run a second move for coverage, a.k.a HP Rock / Ancient power for the likes of Ho-Oh. This set can after one calm mind can definitely be very threatening late game due to its ability to completely wall the likes of ferrothorn, NDM, and supportceus that isn't groundceus. These EV spreads are just personal preference/whatever works best on the team if you need more speed or not on the set. It succeeds more on fatter builds that focus around spitting out numerous hazards, but could also work on select Hyper Offences and Stalls.
+1 136+ SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Max Steelspike vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde: 376-444 (89.5 - 105.7%) -- 37.5% chance to OHKO
+1 136+ SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Max Steelspike vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Zygarde-Complete: 376-444 (59.1 - 69.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 136+ SpA Arceus-Steel Max Rockfall vs. 248 HP / 60+ SpD Ho-Oh: 408-484 (98.3 - 116.6%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO
+1 136+ SpA Arceus-Steel Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 60+ SpD Ho-Oh: 224-268 (53.9 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 136+ SpA Arceus-Steel Max Rockfall vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Ho-Oh: 452-532 (108.9 - 128.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
+1 136+ SpA Arceus-Steel Ancient Power vs. 248 HP / 60 SpD Ho-Oh: 248-292 (59.7 - 70.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
it literally sets up on ferro
+1 136+ SpA Iron Plate Arceus-Steel Max Steelspike vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 168-198 (42.2 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
it literally sets up on almost every relevant Defensive NDM set

UR to D
Urshifu is a bad boy. With the ability to bypass protect and have access to a STAB move that always crits with a 130 base ATK its kinda epic bro. It also gets access to U-Turn and has the ability to 2HKO any supportceus that doesn't resist its Wicked Blow, 2HKO Ho-Oh, and also outspeeds the most common EVs spreads for most supportceuses. I have a neat team for this scary mon on this post. Unfortunately, Choice Band is really the only way to go, you could possibly run Bulk Up with Black Glasses or some sort of Substitute set but generally you'll find more success with CB.
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 240+ Def Arceus-Ground: 207-244 (46.6 - 54.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Brutal Swing vs. 252 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh on a critical hit: 261-307 (62.7 - 73.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Brutal Swing vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Zygarde on a critical hit: 204-240 (48.5 - 57.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Choice Band Pangoro Brutal Swing vs. 252 HP / 56+ Def Groudon-Primal on a critical hit: 187-222 (46.2 - 54.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
ignore the pangoro lol. urshifu hasnt been implemented into the calc and same with Wicked Blow
Thx for reading, so happy I can post more. :)
 

Icemaster

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It's no secret that the VR is pretty outdated by this point and so the council will be updating it later this week.

Council Nominations:

:Zygarde-Complete: S -> A+ Zygarde Complete has suffered immensely from the rise of supportceus and more supportceus formes. Lugia also fares better in this meta, and Lugia is a very powerful check (at least, if it isn't last mon Zygarde). Defensive sets are worse than they used to be, being forced out by Supportceus formes wielding ice beam/fairy judgment, Eternatus, Xerneas, Yveltal, MRay (for threat of Draco Meteor), Kyogre formes which are all more common and are getting wins. Zygarde is still a fantastic mon, but these meta shifts prevent it from being as good as the other S ranks.

:Kyogre: B+ -> A-, base Kyogre is absolutely phenomenal in the meta right now due to the relative absence of Ferrothorn, fall in usage SpDef PDon (in favour of offensive sets) and can be cored pretty easily with Lugia/Giratina/Supportceus/Zygarde to provide good switchins to checks such as PDon or MRay. CM LO and Specs are the two big threats, while Scarf is good too.

1594839340513.png
: A -> A-, other Supportceus formes are becoming more common so this is harder to justify adding to teams. It doesn't reliably counter PDons anymore due to Eruption sets being common and threatening to KO after minimal chip and it requires dynamax in order to counter the most troubling threats (Zygarde, MRay or stalling Yveltal turns). AGPL win rates for this mon are low, although it is a very small sample of battles so I don't put too much stock into that.

:Chansey: :Lugia: B -> B+, fatter balances are thriving right now, and these teams often use these. Chansey and Lugia are becoming increasingly common due to their abilities to blanket check so much.

:Sableye-Mega: D -> B, same as above nomination. Also denies hazards from the best rocker - NDM while also making Ferrothorn completely useless.

:Lunala: B+ -> B, simply isn't as good as its rank suggests - it is hard to fit on teams due to its weakness to Yveltal, and requires dynamax in order to really break through things. It is also hurt by the rise of Darkceus, Chansey and SpDef Arceus formes like Fairyceus.


Other Nominations I agree with
:mewtwo-mega-y: B- to B+
:Arceus: Fairyceus to B+ and Darkceus to A-. Good yveltal checks when using their own dmax (or at least are able to burn off a few Yveltal DMax turns), offer great support. Darkceus with CM/Support or Perish-Trapping is pretty busted.
:Giratina: D to B-, honestly I'd go further and say B+, this mon has been having a lot of success on non stall builds. I consider it a great defogging option while building my teams.
:Magearna: Unranked -> D, Mage QuickPass is admittedly a little powerful, and this mon can waste Yveltal/Xerneas dynamax turns and potentially beat them with Occa Berry (it could do this before but I don't think it was good enough at it or that that niche was good enough to merit ranking)
:Arceus: Unranked -> D, (Edit: Steel) I had used this quite a few times and ik Pichus did too but neither of us nominated it. I can say this mon definitely deserves being ranked.
:Zacian: C -> D, yes, because Crowned outclasses it in nearly all cases.

The council will be looking to vote on these mons, as well as the previous nominations later this week, or early next week. We will also be ranking the mons in A- rank and above internally, thanks for the discussion about this. In the meantime, keep posting your noms and your thoughts on these ones!
 
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Throwing in a quick nom if it isn't too late to do so:
Xerneas S- to lower
Without Max Flare, Xerneas no longer has a way to beat Necrozma Dusk Mane in a Dynamax war. Considering Nec-DM is the most used mon in the metagame, really Xern only had the S- rank for how good it was on paper and how much respect you had to give to it in a game. Without Max Flare, that isn't a concern, and Xern should drop to a rank that represents how good it actually is in a game.
 
Throwing in a quick nom if it isn't too late to do so:
Xerneas S- to lower
Without Max Flare, Xerneas no longer has a way to beat Necrozma Dusk Mane in a Dynamax war. Considering Nec-DM is the most used mon in the metagame, really Xern only had the S- rank for how good it was on paper and how much respect you had to give to it in a game. Without Max Flare, that isn't a concern, and Xern should drop to a rank that represents how good it actually is in a game.
I agree with the nom but for the wrong reasons. Substitute actually does allow you to stall ndm's dmax (max lightning 2kos non dmax ndm) and even let's you abuse non seismic toss chansey
 
I agree with the nom but for the wrong reasons. Substitute actually does allow you to stall ndm's dmax (max lightning 2kos non dmax ndm) and even let's you abuse non seismic toss chansey
Thanks for reminding me of this. Yes, Substitute has surpassed HP Fire in usage, but now Xern HAS to run Sub it becomes more predictable. Nec DM being on 80%+ of teams isn't Xern's only problem too. Trends like Chansey usage to check Yveltal, Magearna becoming viable, Zygod dropping in usage, even Perish Song making a comeback, all these things make Xern manageable. Its current place in S- is a relic of the early metagame when teams were still working out how to answer it, and I would consider Mega Ray a much bigger threat in the current metagame.
 
Thanks for reminding me of this. Yes, Substitute has surpassed HP Fire in usage, but now Xern HAS to run Sub it becomes more predictable. Nec DM being on 80%+ of teams isn't Xern's only problem too. Trends like Chansey usage to check Yveltal, Magearna becoming viable, Zygod dropping in usage, even Perish Song making a comeback, all these things make Xern manageable. Its current place in S- is a relic of the early metagame when teams were still working out how to answer it, and I would consider Mega Ray a much bigger threat in the current metagame.
Yes those points are all correct hence why I agree it should drop. However HP fire not working properly is not the sole factor

Mega Ray rising is a definite Yes for me. Swords Dance sets continue to have like 2 answers (and who runs phys Def tyranitar in this meta of Dynamax yveltal). Meanwhile mixed Life Orb sets can dent switch inş beyond repair to the point even pDon can't switch in safely.
I honestly think mega Ray should go past S- and to S with zacian crowned
 

Guard

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:sm/yveltal:
Yveltal's sheer dominance has lessened to the point where an S+ rank cannot be justified anymore. The metagame's balance, bulky offensive, and stall cores have finally become more capable of sponging Yveltal's Max Moves, and walling it afterwards. This can largely be attributed to the enormous rise in Arceus-Fairy and Arceus-Dark usage, which, alongside already popular Pokémon such as Zacian-C, Ho-Oh, and Chansey, gives teams much more breathing room in taking on a Dynamaxed Yveltal without the ridiculous repercussions before the Arceus-Dark / Arceus-Fairy renessaince. Obviously, it is still a gigantic threat in the grand scheme of things, but its viability ceiling does not exceed Zacian-C's to the point where it demands its own rank. Thus, Yveltal should drop to S.
 

Spyro

Banned deucer.
Another thing to note is that if you plan on dynamaxing Yveltal you either forfeit the ability to defensive dynamax or forfeit dynamaxing Yveltal in any given match. We all know how valuable emergency dynamaxing can be to prevent getting swept by a Rayquaza or Xerneas or something. It faces competition from Rayquaza as a wallbreaker who doesn't use up the dynamax and competition from Xerneas as an offensive dynamaxer and competition from Necrozma who loves dynamaxing when at half health or less. We all know Necrozma is the glue that holds the tier together but as bulky as it is, constantly coming in on Zacian and Xerneas and being forced to heal itself it can often leave it overwhelmed to the point it needs to dynamax later in the match. S rank would be fine for it.
 
:sm/yveltal:
Yveltal's sheer dominance has lessened to the point where an S+ rank cannot be justified anymore. The metagame's balance, bulky offensive, and stall cores have finally become more capable of sponging Yveltal's Max Moves, and walling it afterwards. This can largely be attributed to the enormous rise in Arceus-Fairy and Arceus-Dark usage, which, alongside already popular Pokémon such as Zacian-C, Ho-Oh, and Chansey, gives teams much more breathing room in taking on a Dynamaxed Yveltal without the ridiculous repercussions before the Arceus-Dark / Arceus-Fairy renessaince. Obviously, it is still a gigantic threat in the grand scheme of things, but its viability ceiling does not exceed Zacian-C's to the point where it demands its own rank. Thus, Yveltal should drop to S.
NO absolutely not.
252+ SpA Life Orb Yveltal Max Airstream vs. 252 HP / 240+ SpD Arceus-Fairy(same calc for darkceus): 196-231 (44.1 - 52%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock .

Chansey Still loses to popular knock and taunt variants, zacian can't beat it without being left on like 2%, ho-oh similarl loses to knock. Not to mention w/out heavy investment if the arceus dynamax they lose their ability to do much damage and are wide open to pokemon like mega gengar.

Another thing to note is that if you plan on dynamaxing Yveltal you either forfeit the ability to defensive dynamax or forfeit dynamaxing Yveltal in any given match. We all know how valuable emergency dynamaxing can be to prevent getting swept by a Rayquaza or Xerneas or something. It faces competition from Rayquaza as a wallbreaker who doesn't use up the dynamax and competition from Xerneas as an offensive dynamaxer and competition from Necrozma who loves dynamaxing when at half health or less. We all know Necrozma is the glue that holds the tier together but as bulky as it is, constantly coming in on Zacian and Xerneas and being forced to heal itself it can often leave it overwhelmed to the point it needs to dynamax later in the match. S rank would be fine for it.
S rank is definitely too high. S- maybe..... But anyway a mega slot is a powerful thing itself. When you use mega ray you transfer on the sheer power of MMY, The checkmate postitions gengar forces, and the defogging capabilities of the rare salamence
 
I also think Nec DM should be S rank. At this point, building anything but HO without it is basically a teambuilder mistake. It's the most consistent Rocker by a huge margin (sorry Pdon) and its offensive sets have the ability to bluff being Ultra, run Solgalium Z to break without Dynamax or even Dynamax to boost up both its defences, making it impossible to revenge kill and letting it reliably run Weakness Policy.
I think on versatility and how it basically is a requirement on balance or Bulky Offense, it more than deserves to sit among the top 3 mons on the tier.

As for Yveltal, yeah it can drop now. With the Arceus forms having their Dynamax nerfed it might become less manageable again, but certainly for now teams seem to have a grip on it, and when it doesn't get to Dynamax it does not perform anything like an S+ mon should.

I think the order of S should be Zacian-C, Nec-DM, Yveltal. Zacian-C has no answers in the tier to its Swords Dance set unless the opposing team is running Ditto thanks to its absurd speed tier. Top players are reverting to Jolly because a Zacian-C speed tie is sometimes the only way to stop it at +3. It can outright sweep teams after Dynamax has been forced, or force it out for other breakers to clean. And that's without mentioning the only reliable long-term answer to 4 Attacks is Heavy-Duty-Boots Nec DM. Zacian-C is the most dangerous mon in the tier atm, and the VR should reflect that.
 
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Guard

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OMPL Champion
~ VR Update ~

Hello everyone, the council has come together to vote on the nominations presented in this thread, and here is the outcome. Beyond that, we have also taken everyone's suggestions into consideration and ranked the S and A ranks by viability instead of alphabetical order. This way, we believe the metagame will be represented more correctly than ever. If you wish to see what order each of us individually voted, feel free to consult this sheet. Without further ado:

RISES
:kyogre: B+ to A-
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B- to A-
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B- to B+
:mewtwo-mega-y: B- to B+
:chansey: B to B+
:lugia: B to B+
:giratina: D to B+
:sableye-mega: C to B
:magearna: UR to D


:sm/kyogre:
Calm Mind and Choice Specs variants of Kyogre have emerged as one of the strongest and most effective wallbreakers in the metagame, convincingly taking advantage of many common Pokémon such as the omnipresent Necrozma-DM, as well as the likes of Ho-Oh and the influx of support Arceus forms, akin to its Primal brethren. However, with Dynamax and a free itemslot available to it, it sets itself apart from Primal Kyogre by being capable of effortlessly breaking through traditional counterplay in Primal Groudon, Ferrothorn, and Chansey. This makes it so that counterplay to Kyogre is in a very dire spot, in many teams often only boiling down to Speed control through the likes of Zacian-C and Mega Rayquaza. The abundance of opportunities Kyogre can take advantage of, as well as the lack of consistent counterplay, adds up to a very clear-cut rise.

:sm/arceus-dark:
Arceus-Dark has proven to be a very solid staple in countless teams during the last couple of weeks. Calm Mind variants are very hard to limit in the long term, taking advantage of a large swath of the defensive metagame and walling many notable Pokémon such as Ultra Necrozma, and Yveltal after Dynamax has been expended. Furthermore, support variants have also made a lot of appearances, usually adopting either of two sets: Whirlpool + Perish Song or Defog + Refresh. The former is capable of checking Zygarde-C and Calm Mind Arceus forms, as well as acting as a potent wincon, by virtue of Perish Song, while the latter is one of the few Defoggers that can at all times keep Stealth Rock off the field against Necrozma-DM and support Primal Groudon variants, which is important in order to keep Assurance Zacian-C at bay. All in all, Arceus-Dark has managed to solidify no less than three niches for itself in the span of a few weeks, which will be met with a huge rise to reflect it.

:sm/arceus-fairy:
Similarly to Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Fairy has been rediscovered in recent times. Its ability to blanket check tons of prominent threats in Yveltal, Mega Rayquaza, and Zygarde-C has proven to be a great asset for quite a few teams. Needing only Judgment to achieve the aforementioned, it has the privilege of two free moveslots, which it can use in a great variety of ways. Whirlpool + Perish Song allows it to greatly limit every relevant Calm Mind Arceus form, while also letting it serve as a wincon on its own. Double status variants are capable of punishing every relevant switchin with Toxic, Will-O-Wisp, or Thunder Wave. It can fit a few other support moves as well if its team needs it to, with common examples being Refresh and Defog, even though it isn't necessarily the best status absorber or Defogger. Calm Mind + Refresh variants have also popped up a fair few times and can put in similar amounts of work compared to Calm Mind Arceus-Dark, albeit being less effective than it in general due to its weakness to Sunsteel Strike and not outhitting Ho-Oh's Regenerator.

:sm/mewtwo-mega-y:
Mega Mewtwo Y has established itself as a frighteningly effective wallbreaker, stallbreaker, and late-game cleaner with its Nasty Plot sets. Psystrike along with either Fire Blast or Focus Blast offers near perfect coverage already, which allows it to run Recover in order to take advantage of the massive popularity of support Arceus forms. Pressure in its base form compounds on this trait, easily stalling Arceus out of Judgment. Nasty Plot 3 Attack-sets are even more threatening to the defensive metagame, having very little convenient defensive counterplay, and therefore almost always forcing the opponents Dynamax or wrapping up the match with little to no support against teams with Adamant Zacian-C as the only form of Speed control. Its blistering Speed tier is definitely a great boon for it as well, allowing it to outspeed everything up to Adamant Zacian-C, which allows it to serve as a great form of Speed control itself against hard-to-check threats such as Zacian-C and Eternatus.

:sm/chansey::sm/lugia::sm/giratina::sm/sableye-mega:
Bulky balances are thriving currently due to their ability to take on a majority of the sheer number of lethal threats the metagame has to offer. Chansey, Lugia, Giratina, and Mega Sableye are often at the forefront of these teams, due to how much they can offer in terms of limiting the deadliest of the deadliest Pokémon. Chansey is the only Pokémon capable of convincingly countering Substitute Xerneas and Life Orb Eternatus, among other threats such as non-Knock Off Yveltal, non-Calm Mind Primal Kyogre, and Calm Mind Arceus forms. Lugia hard checks the majority of physical wallbreakers, such as Mega Rayquaza, Zygarde-C, and miscellaneous Swords Dance Arceus forms. Giratina PP stalls entry hazards and Ho-Oh's Defog like no other, crucially keeping the entry hazard game in its team's favour. It also checks the deadly Eruption Primal Groudon variants, as long as they forego Swords Dance, in addition to a few other threats as well. Similarly, Mega Sableye is also capable of securing the entry hazard game for its team, deterring entry hazards from every relevant setter bar offensive Primal Groudon variants.

:sm/magearna:
With the addition of Baton Pass, Magearna can now act as a reliable enabler of already dangerous Pokémon, by passing them Shift Gear, Calm Mind, and Iron Defense boosts, thereby creating a brand-new Baton Pass playstyle. Albeit unreliable against Whirlwind Ho-Oh matchups, it is still a playstyle that can offer great amounts of output nonetheless, granting Magearna a niche and therefore a ranking. It is also Jho's greatest contribution to the AG metagame, so be sure to redirect your gratitude to him.

DROPS
:yveltal: S+ to S
:zygarde-complete: S to A+
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A to A-
:lunala: B+ to B
:zacian: C to D

:sm/yveltal:
" Yveltal's sheer dominance has lessened to the point where an S+ rank cannot be justified anymore. The metagame's balance, bulky offensive, and stall cores have finally become more capable of sponging Yveltal's Max Moves, and walling it afterwards. This can largely be attributed to the enormous rise in Arceus-Fairy and Arceus-Dark usage, which, alongside already popular Pokémon such as Zacian-C, Ho-Oh, and Chansey, gives teams much more breathing room in taking on a Dynamaxed Yveltal without the ridiculous repercussions before the Arceus-Dark / Arceus-Fairy renessaince. Obviously, it is still a gigantic threat in the grand scheme of things, but its viability ceiling does not exceed Zacian-C's to the point where it demands its own rank. Thus, Yveltal should drop to S. "

:sm/zygarde-complete:
Zygarde-C massively suffers from the popularity in support Arceus forms, with all of Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Ground, Arceus-Water, and Arceus-Fairy being popular picks that can blanket check Zygarde-C's Dragon Dance sets with any of Judgment, Ice Beam, and Perish Song, while also competing with its defensive sets. Teams are often seen equipping at least two of them, making it very hard for Dragon Dance Zygarde-C to make meaningful progress without extensive support, and rendering defensive Zygarde-C's checking prowess and ability to act as a status absorber obsolete on a fair few builds. However, it remains capable of breaking through support Arceus forms with Dynamax, or at the very least force the opponents Dynamax, with its Dragon Dance set, while defensive sets are one of the very few solid checks to the thriving Eruption Primal Groudon variants, as well as a whole host of other physical attackers, landing it a solid spot on A+ for now.

:sm/arceus-ground:
Arceus-Ground's defensive niches are less notable currently. The general popularity of Arceus-Dark, Arceus-Water, and Arceus-Fairy means there's less of a reason to run Arceus-Ground in the first place. Besides, it is no longer a satisfying check to Primal Groudon due to Eruption / Overheat variants, Zygarde-C is much less prominent, and checked well enough by other support Arceus forms, and it was never a good check to Mega Rayquaza to begin with. Not to mention its relative passivity against harshly punishing wallbreakers such as Yveltal, Kyogre, and Mega Mewtwo Y, which makes it more support-demanding overall, resulting in a slight drop to match up with its Water- and Dark-type brethren.

:sm/lunala:
Lunala just demands a lot in order to get the most out of it. Even though it has a clear niche in hard-checking a diverse array of threats in Zygarde-C, Mega Rayquaza, Mega Mewtwo Y, and Swords Dance Arceus forms, it requires Shadow Shield to stay intact in order to do so, which necessitates frequent Roost usage, thereby giving up momentum quiet often and being extremely prone to the omnipresent Toxic. It also slightly suffers from 4MSS, ideally craving all of Ice Beam, Moongeist Beam / Hex, Will-O-Wisp, Toxic, Roost, and Roar, which means it sometimes needs to compromise its matchup against one, in order to check the other. Meanwhile, offensive sets, while theoretically potent, remain a rare sight. All of the aforementioned results into a slight drop to B.

:sm/zacian:
If you ever consider using vanilla Zacian, come to your senses and use Swords Dance Zacian-C instead.

Slate

Feel free to PM me in case of any further questions. Keep up the nominations and stay safe!
 
Gonna make a few obvious noms.



Arceus Flying to UR

Thundurus T to UR

Arceus Poison to UR



These 3 all suffer immensely from the HP nerf. Thundurus has no way to boost speed and neither does flyceus. Poisonceus used to reverse sweep geoxern teams w/dmax but it can't do that now
 
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