National Dex General Information and Simple Questions Thread

[Pigeons]

Also National Dex "OU" and possibly more formats that will be moving here in the future
art by Kaiju Bunny

Rules:

National Dex OU aims to be an OU-like format but with all Pokemon from past generations available. It will have similar bans and clauses to regular OU, but remain an unofficial side-metagame.

Anything Goes is somewhat self-explanatory; however, it should be noted that Anything Goes refers to anything legal within the cartridge games (Sun and Moon) being able to be used. There are no bans or clauses (excluding the 'Endless Battle Clause').

FAQ:

Q: How exactly do the mechanics of something like this work?
A: Check out the mechanics thread!

Q: Will a reduced Dex AG still exist?
A: Yes, but it will be challenge-only on PS! and not our main focus.

Q: Will there be more National Dex low tiers?
A: Maybe? If we see a ton of interest then they might get formed, but it really depends and we’re making no commitments for now.

Resources:
AG Metagame Discussion
Anything Goes room on PS!
Angthing Goes Discord

Simple Questions, Simple Answers:

This thread will also be doubling as a simple Q&A thread where players can get questions answered. Any questions related to National Dex formats are welcome (provided they are relatively simple to answer), but please keep the following guidelines in mind before posting:

• Make sure the question you are asking is clear! It's a lot easier for us to help you out if we understand what you're asking.
• If your question can be answered by a Google search or the Smogdex, please do that as to not clutter the thread.
• When answering questions, please quote the post you're answering to avoid confusion.
• In-game questions or questions related to other tiers don't belong here. Make sure you're asking about Anything Goes!
• Be civil when posting please

Ask away!

 

[Rightclops]

Any plans on adding National Dex Random Battles?

 

[Sacrificed]

Will national dex version of lower tiers(UU,RU,NU,PU etc) happen later?

 

[TCTphantom]

What will the banlist for National Dex OU be?

 

[Zach Parrott]

What will the banlist for National Dex OU be?

I assume it'd be the same as last gen -Arena Trap and Aegislash, with Zacian, Zamazenta, and Eternatus on the banlist.

 

[GoldenSandslash15]

Will national dex version of lower tiers(UU,RU,NU,PU etc) happen later?

If there is enough demand for it, yes. If not, then no. (Confirmed by Smogon on Twitter.)

What will the banlist for National Dex OU be?

The current banlist that is implemented on PS is:

Shadow Tag, Baton Pass, Arceus, Blaziken, Blaziken-Mega, Darkrai, Deoxys, Dialga, Eternatus, Genesect, Gengar-Mega, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kangaskhan-Mega, Kyogre, Kyurem-White, Landorus-Base, Lucario-Mega, Lugia, Lunala, Marshadow, Metagross-Mega, Mewtwo, Naganadel, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palkia, Pheromosa, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Salamence-Mega, Shaymin-Sky, Solgaleo, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zacian, Zacian-Crowned, Zamazenta, Zamazenta-Crowned, Zekrom, Zygarde

Presumably this will change as the meta evolves.

 

[The Immortal]

Any plans on adding National Dex Random Battles?

Since there’s demand for it, yes, I will eventually add a NatDex Random Battle.

 

[10610786d]

Where do I voice my interest in natdex doubles?

 

[VCrakeV]

I understand that it's rather early in the meta, but has anyone seen any trends with Lele and Heatran? Are they just doing business as usual? What would you recommend or expect?

Edit: in National OU, not AG

 

[poiuygfd]

Will Starter Eevee and Starter Pikachu from Let's Go be useable as well? I think given their lackluster stats but OP sig moves they'd make for interesting additions to the meta, at least in the lower tiers.

 

[alephozone]

why are certain pokemon (like Aggron) illegal/banned? Also, I'm also interested in natdex doubles (and natdex monotype).

 

[GoldenSandslash15]

How are interactions that aren't programmed into Sword/Shield going to be handled?

Example: I send out a Regigigas. Two turns go by. Three to go before Slow Start wears off. My opponent sends out a Galarian Weezing. Neutralizing Gas disables Slow Start. I can now attack with my full stats. I do so, and kill the Galarian Weezing on the next turn. Now, Neutralizing Gas is no longer in play. Slow Start is reactivated. How many turns to go until it expires? Is it two more, because three turns have gone by since I sent out Regigigas? Is it three more, since two turns have gone by during which Slow Start was active? Is it five more, since my Regigigas effectively just gained Slow Start? The game's source code does not show the answer to this, because there does not exist a game where both Slow Start and Neutralizing Gas exist simultaneously.

Who decides interactions like this? And more importantly, how do they reach their decision?

 

[MZ]

Where do I voice my interest in natdex doubles?

You should probably ask doubles people about making it a thing, I don't have anything against it but haven't seen any plans for it at the moment

Will Starter Eevee and Starter Pikachu from Let's Go be useable as well? I think given their lackluster stats but OP sig moves they'd make for interesting additions to the meta, at least in the lower tiers.

No, they're not from the gen 7 meta which is what we're drawing on.

why are certain pokemon (like Aggron) illegal/banned? Also, I'm also interested in natdex doubles (and natdex monotype).

Ditto for asking doubles/mono people. As for Pokemon like Aggron being illegal, sounds like this should just be a bug? I don't have context to answer what went wrong but there's no reason that Aggron shouldn't be usable.

Will try to get to the slow start question soon

 

[poiuygfd]

With all due respect, what does them not being in the standard gen 7 meta have to do with anything? Nothing from gen 8 appears in the gen 7 meta, yet you're using them anyway? I'm just a bit confused as to why it is OK to add gen 8 Pokemon in but not adapt the Starter forms to the gen 7 meta by allowing them to use the regular EV system and such?

 

[N_Mareanie]

Shadow Tag, Baton Pass, Arceus, Blaziken, Blaziken-Mega, Darkrai, Deoxys, Dialga, Eternatus, Genesect, Gengar-Mega, Giratina, Groudon, Ho-Oh, Kangaskhan-Mega, Kyogre, Kyurem-White, Landorus-Base, Lucario-Mega, Lugia, Lunala, Marshadow, Metagross-Mega, Mewtwo, Naganadel, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Palkia, Pheromosa, Rayquaza, Reshiram, Salamence-Mega, Shaymin-Sky, Solgaleo, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zacian, Zacian-Crowned, Zamazenta, Zamazenta-Crowned, Zekrom, Zygarde

Any chance we can start off w a smaller banlist? i know, it may sound rlly broken, but a fair point has been brought up time and time again that we should at least bring some pokemon back (this also prevents future questions of unbanning certain mons). not talking about shit like primals and main legends, but i think a list like this would be fair to try after all this time, especially since, well, power creep is bigger than ever. we shouldn't be scared to try it out at the least, quickbanning is always an option.

List of mons that i would like to see unbanned

Blaziken, Blaziken-Mega, Darkrai, Deoxys (and extra forms but i dont see them on the banlist), Genesect, Kangaskhan-Mega, Kyurem-White, Landorus, Lucario-Mega, Marshadow, Metagross-Mega, Naganadel, Pheromosa, Shaymin-Sky, Zygarde, Salamence-Mega)

i know this might seem like a crazy list, but it never hurts to at least try them. if they end being broken anyways, quickban them. i think this unban list would attract a lot more people too, to try out and finally have some unbans they asked for. at least consider it, it would be hugely appreciated.

 

[MZ]

With all due respect, what does them not being in the standard gen 7 meta have to do with anything? Nothing from gen 8 appears in the gen 7 meta, yet you're using them anyway? I'm just a bit confused as to why it is OK to add gen 8 Pokemon in but not adapt the Starter forms to the gen 7 meta by allowing them to use the regular EV system and such?

Because we're specifically moving things up from Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon. This is meant to simulate what a national dex meta would be like if the national dex functioned like it has in every other game, but LGPE are side games and just generally a different thing. Also Meltan and Melmetal are going to be transferrable but starter pikachu/eevee are not, I'm pretty sure. At least they explicitly removed their unique moves and none of the datamine dumps show starter Pikachu or Eevee even though they do show like 7 different Pikachu forms (none of them have the boosted base stats) and I don't expect you'll be able to remove your special starter from the game. If that ends up being wrong we can reevaluate this.

 

[Heavyweapons Mann]

There’s a good chance most of the mons on the initial banlist would still be broken.

 

[TheUprising007]

Outside of this NatGen containing every known Pokémon, battle clauses etc. exactly what is allowed and isn't, as far as this generation is concerned?

The reason I ask is because two days ago I watched a several matches where participants used Z-moves(not named ultranecrozuim-Z), moves which have been permanently deleted (return, Frustration, and pursuit)

Thanks in advance :)

 

[10610786d]

Outside of this NatGen containing every known Pokémon, battle clauses etc. exactly what is allowed and isn't, as far as this generation is concerned?

The reason I ask is because two days ago I watched a several matches where participants used Z-moves(not named ultranecrozuim-Z), moves which have been permanently deleted (return, Frustration, and pursuit)

Thanks in advance :)

All your questions are answered in the mechanics thread at the very top of this page.

 

[VCrakeV]

why are certain pokemon (like Aggron) illegal/banned? Also, I'm also interested in natdex doubles (and natdex monotype).

Have you tried battling with one? The team builder lists every Pokemon not in the SwSh cart as illegal.

 

[poiuygfd]

Thanks for elaborating at least. Its kind of a shame theres no metagame where i can use starter eevee without having to use the let's go mechanics and limitied dex but i can understand why you're excluding them at least.

 

[10610786d]

why are certain pokemon (like Aggron) illegal/banned? Also, I'm also interested in natdex doubles (and natdex monotype).

Seems the doubles subforum is still in previous gen mode, should start a thread about natdex doubles when doubles swsh subforum goes up I guess

 

[GoldenSandslash15]

So I've been playing NatDex Anything Goes with the following team (yeah, yeah, I know it sucks. I'm not very good at Pokémon).

My Team

Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Wild Charge
- Behemoth Blade

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Encore
- Sludge Bomb

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake
- Sunsteel Strike

Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Recover

Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psystrike
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Transform

For some reason, it's not letting me Dynamax. I know that Zacian can't Dynamax (due to game mechanics), and Gengar/Necrozma can't Dynamax (due to their held items being a Mega Stone and a Z-Crystal, respectively). But I don't understand why I can't do it with the other three. Am I missing something here?

 

[Geysers]

So I've been playing NatDex Anything Goes with the following team (yeah, yeah, I know it sucks. I'm not very good at Pokémon).

My Team

Zacian-Crowned @ Rusted Sword
Ability: Intrepid Sword
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Play Rough
- Wild Charge
- Behemoth Blade

Gengar @ Gengarite
Ability: Cursed Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Shadow Ball
- Encore
- Sludge Bomb

Necrozma-Dusk-Mane @ Ultranecrozium Z
Ability: Prism Armor
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Photon Geyser
- Earthquake
- Sunsteel Strike

Ho-Oh @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Sacred Fire
- Brave Bird
- Earthquake
- Recover

Mewtwo @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psystrike
- Ice Beam
- Fire Blast

Ditto @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Imposter
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Transform

For some reason, it's not letting me Dynamax. I know that Zacian can't Dynamax (due to game mechanics), and Gengar/Necrozma can't Dynamax (due to their held items being a Mega Stone and a Z-Crystal, respectively). But I don't understand why I can't do it with the other three. Am I missing something here?

This is because of a change in mechanics which has yet to be implemented. Because you have a pokemon on your team with a z crystal, the other mons on your team can’t dynamax. This will likely be changed in the next day or two, so your team will soon behave as expected, don’t worry.

 

[Cuddly]

If Dynamaxing is banned in standard OU, will it (hopefully) be banned here?