Little Cup National Dex Little Cup

[rarre]

(banner in progress, current “banner” drawn by teamo)
LC (Little Cup) is a format where players may only use Pokémon that have not yet evolved, are capable of evolution, and are obtainable at level 5 in-game.

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Council
rarre
Flou
MuffinMelody
Charis_Akins
Roldski32

Banlist:

Pokemon

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• Aipom
• Basculin-White-Striped
• Clamperl
• Corsola-Galar
• Cutiefly
• Drifloon
• Dunsparce
• Duraludon
• Flittle
• Girafarig
• Gligar
• Meditite
• Misdreavus
• Murkrow
• Porygon
• Qwilfish-Hisui
• Rufflet
• Scraggy
• Scyther
• Sneasel
• Sneasel-Hisui
• Stantler
• Swirlix
• Tangela
• Vulpix-Alola
• Woobat
• Yanma
• Zigzagoon

Abilities

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• Moody
• Chlorophyll

Items

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• Eevium Z
• King's Rock
• Quick Claw
• Razor Fang

Moves

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• Assist
• Dragon Rage
• Sonicboom
• Baton Pass
• Sticky Web

Codes

Challenge Code

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/challenge gen9nationaldex @@@ Little Cup, Adjust Level = 5, -Sneasel, -Scyther, -Swirlix, -Tangela, -Gligar, -Corsola-Galar, -Aipom, -Rufflet, -Drifloon, -Cutiefly, -Meditite, -Yanma, -Woobat, -Murkrow, -Misdreavus, -Girafarig, -Flittle, -Dunsparce, -Porygon, -Stantler, -Basculin, -Qwilfish, -Scraggy, -Duraludon, -Vulpix-alola, -Clamperl, -Zigzagoon, -Eevium Z, -Chlorophyll, +Arena Trap, +Shadow Tag, -Sonicboom, -Dragon Rage, -Sticky Web

Tournament Code

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.

Watchlist:
Tyrunt
Magby
Diglett

NDLC Discord

 

[rarre]

Sample Teams

Hisuian Voltorb Balance by TheShowdownHoedown and MuffinMelody


Trapinch Balance by Sciroccoo


LO Voltorb Grass Spam by Charis_Akins]


Voltturn Hazard Stack by Roldski32


RegenSpam by Flou

 

[rarre]

Viability Rankings (Last updated 3/4/24)

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S
Mienfoo
Vullaby

S-
Diglett
Pawniard

A+
Abra
Ferroseed
Koffing
Voltorb-hisui

A
Foongus
Gastly
Mareaine
Ponyta
Snivy
Staryu
Timburr

A-
Carvanha
Growlithe-hisui
Mudbray
Onix
Shellder
Spritzee
Tyrunt
Wingull

B+
Doduo
Gothita
Grimer-alola
Grookey
Magnemite
Snubbull
Stunky
Trapinch
Vulpix


B
Archen
Dwebble
Magby
Glimmet
Minccino

B-
Charmander
Elekid
Frillish
Munchlax
Omanyte
Sandshrew-alola
Toedscool

Below in C & D, these Pokemon are generally considered to have negatives such that they are not considered very competitive choices for your team. However these Pokemon usually have at least one positive quality which makes them usable though nonoptimal. These are generally considered "for fun" but are ranked to indicate their strengths and weaknesses. Please do not spend your energy discussing if a Pokemon in C should actually be in D (or vice versa).

C

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Chespin
Chinchou
Cottonee
Croagunk
Drilbur
Fuecoco
Hippopotas
Houndour
Larvesta
Meowth
Nymble
Pikipek
Ponyta-galar
Pumpkaboo-super
Shellos
Shroodle
Slowpoke
Taillow
Tinkatink
Tirtouga
Torchic
Zorua-hisui

D

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Amaura
Axew
Buizel
Bunnelby
Corphish
Dewpider
Dratini
Farfetch’d-galar
Golett
Kabuto
Lileep
Natu
Numel
Pancham
Quaxly
Riolu
Sandygast
Skrelp
Snover
Trubbish
Wattrel

Visual (SLIGHTLY OUTDATED):

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Speed Tiers:
here

 

[Flou]

Guess I'll be the first one to post, thanks for making this happen, National Dex overlords



I think of the two Mons on the watchlist currently, Clamperl is the one more obviously broken.

One Shell Smash with Screens or Memento support is basically a loss if you don't have priority, and even that can be accounted for with Substitute for Pokemon like Pawniard's Sucker Punch or Protect for Mienfoo's Fake Out. (You can also just Sub on the Mienfoo swapping out if they are continuously sacrificing Pokemon to Fake Out spam...)

Water-types that take on Clamperl are shaky answers or not answers at all. Frillish is generally a poor bring due to being a victim of much of the greatest threats, offensive Staryu (defensive sucks) dies 70% of the time to Surf BEFORE Tera Water, Mareanie is OHKO'd with Tera Water after Rocks. Grasses like Foongus die to Ice Beam (or Tera Water Surf after rocks) and Ferroseed better hope that it stayed healthy enough to eat Ice Beam. Also, this calc:

84 SpA Ferroseed Giga Drain vs. -1 76 HP / 0 SpD Clamperl with an ally's Aurora Veil: 10-13 (47.6 - 61.9%) -- 93.8% chance to 2HKO

lol

I won't even begin to mention Tera Water +2 Surf calcs, because if your typing doesn't resist Surf you die.

With a Clamperl ban, Vulpix-A and Aurora Veils lose one more sweeper option and could make them easier to handle without extensively preparing for them in the builder. I could of course be completely wrong and veils could be broken even without Clamperl, but I think banning one Pokemon as opposed to killing an entire strategy is favorable.

See you all in May for the seasonal

 

[rarre]

Vulpix-alola, Clamperl, Sticky Web, and Zigzagoon have been Banned!​

Votes

Veils have firmly cemented themselves as a broken and unhealthy playstyle in ndlc, often necessitating extreme measures in order to effectively check. Besides Clamperl and Zigzagoon, other strong sweepers such as dragon dance Tyrunt, nasty plot Vullaby, and belly drum magby would easily take advantage of the veils and setup to try winning the game immediately. The overarching factor, of course, was the veils itself and the Vulpix-alola that effortlessly set them. While axeing an entire playstyle might not be ideal, neither is choosing to ban 5+ mons in order to keep a proven unhealthy and fundamentally matchup fishy playstyle. In the end, with a narrow 3-2 vote, Vulpix-alola is now banned from ndlc.


Click one move and win! While it may be somewhat difficult to safely click shell smash, once you do, it’s pretty much always lights out. Clamperl also paired up amazingly with the breakneck pace of veils ho teams, as veils gave it significantly more opportunities for setup. Of course, Clamperl didn’t necessarily require veils to function, as it could make use of memento or a choice lock to easily set up as well. The advent of tera water really pushed it over the edge, as the monstrous power of +2 deep sea tooth Tera water surf could do some silly things like killing foongus after rocks 75% of the time. This power also made playing around it with Tera of your own impossible, as clamperl would just drop everything with surf. Clamperl could now fit in protect and substitute far more easily, foiling traditional methods of dealing with clamperl such as mienfoo fake out and pawniard sucker punch. Out of the 5 council members, all 5 voted ban for clamperl, making clamperl the only unanimous ban.


Historically, sticky web has always been a very strong and unhealthy matchup fish. To check it without overly preparing for it often necessitates running solid, reliable removal, something that is becoming less and less common in ndlc. The introduction of Voltorb-hisui made defensive staryu all but obsolete, vullaby have been turning away from defog in favor of hidden power fighting to effectively handle pawniard, and standard timburr have also been dropping defog in order to run a 4th attack, which usually proves more useful. Furthermore, sticky web teams have more options than ever to deny removal, from tera ghost to spinblock to tera pawniard and snivy, both of whom defogging against is greatly recommended against. Thus, in a metagame where removal is sparse and not entirely reliable, sticky webs are too strong and unhealthy a matchup fish, and are as such banned.


Zigzagoon is very similar to clamperl in that all it needs is that one turn to set up to run though your team, really appreciates veils but doesn't necessarily require them to function, and abuses tera incredibly hard. Whether it's using tera normal to do things like ko scarf pawn and timburr with boosted extreme speed, using a defensive tera such as ghost to avoid fake out, or just simply dipping into its solid coverage movepool with thief, seed bomb, and rock smash among others, ziggy has no shortage of ways to get around checks and sweep teams with ease. tldr this is just slightly more manageable clamperl

Since matches have already been played, Vulpix-alola, Clamperl, Sticky Web, and Zigzagoon will REMAIN LEGAL for the remainder of ndlc seasonal round 1. Vulpix-alola, Clamperl, Sticky Web, and Zigzagoon will be banned starting round 2.



Other minor changes:
Surskit from B+ to UR
Dewpider from B- to D
New Watchlist: Tyrunt, Magby, Diglett

 

[Flou]

Hello friends, with NDLC Seasonal over (woo go me) I wanna post so we dont lose our thread

Making a ton of teams made seeing which mons actually were good or actually sucked a lot easier

Rises
A- -> A
I used to think this mon was terrible, but it really showed up this tour with some "new" ideas like Dragon Dance and Groundinium-Z on the standard rocks set. Easily the best Vullaby check, and while most of the meta still isn't too kind to it, it has proved itself enough to get promoted.

A+ -> S
Voltorb is probably my favorite candidate for a ban over tera. (yea we banned and unbanned it but holy shit get rid of it) Its got it all: 20 speed with an insanely annoying STAB combo, pivot move, deceptively good bulk and it abuses tera like nothing else. It completely dominated the seasonal and I think its too much for the tier but for now its dominance should be on full display.

A -> A+
I'm a bit iffy on this nomination but I think these two are a good bit better than the rest of A tier. Foongus is probably the best answer to Voltorb before tera, and Spore always provides amazing value because of how fast NDLC is, with a sleep basically leading to a kill. Foongus can even run Synthesis more for longevity because Ferroseed hasn't been seeing much use. Mareanie can be really difficult to KO, Scald and Sludge Bomb force really nasty turns and Tera Dragon lets it become a Voltorb-H check.

Drops
A+ -> A-
To be honest I don't know where this mon belongs but it is NOT A+. I don't think I really have to explain this take but Koffing just sucks. Pain Split isn't reliable at all and it struggles to check anything common that isn't a fighting type. Fraud

A+ -> A
Ferro is still pretty decent in my opinion but I think A or A- just reflects its spot in the tier better, it has great qualities but being passive kinda hurts it a bit

These next two could be a bit controversial

S -> S-
Vullaby is still a great mon but the existence of Voltorb hurts it pretty bad depending on the situation. Still excellent, but the dominance of volt-h and its common targets (think abra, mienfoo) using teras to deal with it doesn't really scream "Top Pokemon"

S- -> A+
Another mon that is still really really good, but it struggles to do its job of checking vullaby and abra because they both pack HP Fighting a lot of the time. Knock Off + Rocks is as good as its always been, and I think SD needs to be explored a bit more.

 

[teamo]

i see we're making vr posts now
as your ndlc finalist :tm: who brought envy 6 five times and promptly lost i am bringing you my real vr update (real) based completely off vibes.

Rises:
A+ -> S
abra was already good but as people explore sets outside of just tera fairy sash this mon is for sure broken.

A+ -> S
pretty much same as above, tera breaks it and it fills too many roles while limiting the builder way too much

B+ -> A
has pursuit and knock off. kinda hates the existence of trapinch but its really nice into just standard offense and balance cores

A- -> A
read what flou said above

B+ -> A-/A
scarf sets are insanely scary and almost always require you to make predictions with your trappers and sturdy juice sets are also really fucking strong. sometimes you can tell what your opponents mag set is but when you cant its especially scary

Drops:
S -> S-
read what flou said above

S- -> A+
ill be honest diglett is feeling kinda underwhelming right now. when people discover the set that breaks dig ill put it back at S- or maybe S but for now all the standard sets like lorb, evio, ground z and balloon are all just flopping in games

and A+ -> A-/B+
read what flou said above. i think he really understated ferro's problem though and all the random ass fire coverage + fire torb really hurt it

and A- -> B
i literally dont see why you would use these guys in torb meta

Some other notes for less relevant mons that I didnt think deserved a written explanation:
A- -> A
B+ -> A-

A -> A-
B+ -> B/B-
:tera: -> Ban

that concludes my shitpost, semi-excited to see what people bring in ndotsl but my prediction is that nothing really exciting gets brought cause of the limitations in this meta.

 

[Flou]

Some other notes for less relevant mons that I didnt think deserved a written explanation:
A- -> A
B+ -> A-

A -> A-
B+ -> B/B-
:tera: -> Ban

explain them bum

 

[teamo]

explain them bum

i’ll explain them when you play unite with me (so never)