Resource National Dex Metagame Discussion v2

I've been using Demon DeoD quiet a lot as of late and have had some fun with it.

Deoxys-Defense @ Rocky Helmet/Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss / Night Shade
- Cosmic Power
- Taunt
- Recover

An obnixious pokemon to handle once it gets going, and takes advantage of a multitude of mons in the tier and turn them into easy set up fodder. Taunt shut downs a ton of options like Toxic/Haze/Set Up/and opposing taunts, and has the added benefit of denying recovery from mons like Clef/Slowbro/Pex which is great.

It's speed tier and natural bulk helps it stand out from other "Demon" mons like Clef, being able to outspeed up to Timid Tran is an incredible trait, and with it's bulk it can still take crits with ease. I've personally been using it along side T-Spike Pex to force damage more effeciently, but I feel even spikes and rocks can force damage just as well with how many switches this mon can force. Honestly a very potent mon, hard to believe it was overlooked as a worse Mew for a long time.
 
In conclusion the main issues against :deoxys-defense: are not only :weavile:, but any ou relevant dark types in general: :Greninja-Ash: :Tyranitar: :Tyranitar-Mega: :Hoopa-unbound:

Therefore, dark resists are a good deoxys-defense partner:
Funnily enough I don't think slow dark types are an issue for it at all. It's able to beat Ttar, Mega Ttar and HoopaU after just two boosts and taunts the former two so they can't rock or get status going.

Taunt shut downs a ton of options like Toxic/Haze/Set Up/and opposing taunts, and has the added benefit of denying recovery from mons like Clef/Slowbro/Pex which is great.
This is my favorite part about it. It seems especially effective at beating a lot of bulky cores since it can outrun and taunt them. Turning a lot of them into set up fodder. And of course once boosted, offensive mons also struggle to pressure it without set up of their own or toxic.
 

Kyo

In Limbo
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Building ND Rain

What does a rain team look like in National Dex? How do you go about building your own rain team?

***

To say this post has been a long time coming would be an understatement. I started writing it a few months ago, but I have a bad habit of struggling to finish things that I can't do in one sitting. So here it finally is, a comprehensive breakdown of rain teams in the National Dex tier. Rain is a playstyle which, even outside of Nat Dex, tends to be very linear. There are tried and true ways of building rain, and it's almost always best to follow the existing formula. Once you've got a solid base for the rain team, that's when you can start experimenting and add your own personal touch to the team. I hope this will be a beneficial read for anyone trying to build their own rain team and even if you already know how rain works, maybe you'll still learn something.


:sm/pelipper:
(Click on the pokemon icons for example sets)


It wouldn't be a rain team without the actual rain setter. Pelipper is always the first place to start when building rain. Only 3 mons exist with access to the drizzle ability and one of them, Kyogre, is in ubers. Politoed is never used as a rain setter for a number of good reasons. I'm sure a majority of you don't need an explanation, but I can see how this mon might be a bit of a noob trap for those with little competitive experience trying to build their first rain. Politoed is outclassed by Pelipper because it lacks any form of recovery which can cause issues in a prolonged game where you may need to set rain up multiple times. Pelipper also has a better defensive typing and access to a slow u-turn which can safely bring a rain abuser onto the field.

When building a spread for Pelipper you want to invest in bulk, typically physical defense. A phys def Pelipper can actually wall opposing Mega Swampert which is very useful for rain mirror matchups and it helps Pelipper take on Lando-T as well. Investing in sp def is less preferred, but it does improve Peli's matchup against Charizard-Y which threatens rain teams by disrupting their weather with drought. Pelipper can opt for 0 IVs in speed and a speed reducing nature. This makes your u-turns as slow as possible to ensure that, in most situations, Pelipper tanks an incoming attack rather than the rain abuser that you want to switch in. Damp rock is always the item of choice to extend your weather to 8 turns instead of 5.

Pelipper should always commit two moveslots to roost and u-turn. The former keeps Peli healthy over the course of a game and the latter brings in rain abusers once your weather is set. Pelipper wants to have at least one attack so that it is not completely passive. Hurricane is 100% accurate in rain and hits grass types relatively hard which is great for a team structure stacked with water types. Scald is an option which is slightly stronger than hurricane thanks to the 1.5x rain boost and has a nice 30% burn chance. DO NOT use weather ball in place of scald. The extra base power may seem appealing, but it comes with consequences. This move changes to match the weather typing when opposing setters like Torkoal, Tyranitar, Hippowdon, or Charizard-Y switch in. Pelipper gets a favorable matchup vs these setters as they are all weak to water moves and you will completely sacrifice this if you run weather ball. The last moveslot on Pelipper is a bit customizable. You can opt for both hurricane and scald to get better coverage. Defog is a decent option to clear hazards. Knock off strips leftovers from bulky water resists like Ferrothorn or Toxapex allowing the rest of the team to break through more easily and also gets a crucial item removal vs Chansey. A very niche option is pursuit to trap and KO Shedinja. This is a mon which hard walls a large number of rain abusers. Using pursuit Peli will greatly increase your matchup against stall, but this move will be useless against every other mon in the tier.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/ferrothorn:


The next step to building rain is to add Ferrothorn. Simply put, any serious rain team should have a Ferrothorn. This mon synergizes way too well with rain teams to ever consider dropping it. Ferrothorn has an incredible typing that is only weak to fire and fighting, the first of which is cut in half by the effects of rain. Water type mons on the other hand are weak to grass and electric which Ferrothorn resists, so this is really a match made in heaven or hell depending on how you feel about rain teams. Ferro also resists rock which nicely covers one of Pelipper's weaknesses.

Ferrothorn is easily the most customizable part of a rain team, so make use of its huge support movepool to patch up any areas where your team is lacking. Need hazards? Ferrothorn has stealth rocks and spikes. You can run both on the same set for some hazard stacking action or choose whichever your team doesn't already have. Gyro ball smacks fairy types and body press hits opposing Ferrothorn decently hard as well as other steel types. Knock off provides great utility in much the same way that it does on Pelipper. Power whip is an option to threaten opposing waters and is also the strongest STAB move Ferro has access to. Remember that you are going to be boosting their power with your own rain, so whip can be quite nice to keep them in check even if the majority of your team is already resistant to water.

Leftovers and chople berry are the most common items for rain Ferrothorn. Leftovers should be used with leech seed to maximize longevity. Chople berry patches up Ferrothorn's 1 remaining weakness to fighting types. This set should not run leech seed as, without leftovers, it isn't able to stick around for too long. Rather, chople berry Ferro should focus on stacking hazards and returning with a hard hit on mons that activate the berry. Body press for example will OHKO a Mega Lopunny that CCs into Ferro expecting a kill. Toxic or thunder wave are good options on any Ferro and work especially well with Chople berry. In cases where you don't have good coverage for opposing mons that will attack with a fighting move, simply throwing a status on them works just as well. CM Mega Latias for example can be a dangerous cleaner vs rain teams. However, chople Ferro can tank a boosted aura sphere and put Latias on a timer with toxic.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/ferrothorn: :sm/swampert-mega:


Now we're getting into the fun part of using rain teams; the rain abusers. Mega Swampert is, to put it lightly, an absolute menace under rain and one of the best cleaners in the tier. The swift swim ability boosts an otherwise unimpressive base speed of 70 to formidable levels. Bar priority moves, there are few mons fast enough to hit Mega Swampert before it gets an attack off and just as few mons that can reliably switch into a neutral STAB from this monster. Pert also has a great water/ground dual typing which is usually all a rain team needs to be safe against electric types in tandem with Ferrothorn. It is so effective in this role that well-built rain teams rarely need another swift swim mon. I think using multiple swift swim mons is a common mistake for an unexperienced player, and I'll explain later in more detail why rain teams rarely stack this ability when it seems so intuitive at first glance.


There are 3 moves that Mega Swampert will almost always want to run; waterfall, earthquake, and ice punch. Obviously, STAB moves are needed and ice punch rounds out this coverage by hitting grass types for solid damage. The combination of these 3 moves are virtually unresisted in the tier with the notable exception of Rotom-Wash. Waterfall is preferred over liquidation because of its flinch chance. However, the 5 base power increase of liquidation plus rain boost will let you 2HKO Corviknight after stealth rocks damage so it's not a totally unviable option. The 4th moveslot on Pert is customizable and there are quite a few options here. Flip turn is my personal favorite to keep up momentum on a switch to something like Slowbro or Tangrowth and it still hits quite hard. If you are choosing to use spikes on your Ferrothorn, stealth rocks are an option to get some hazard stacking action. Superpower nearly OHKOs Kartana, deals massive damage to opposing Ferrothorn, and is also your strongest option to hit Rotom-Wash. Toxic is niche but can really mess with mons that are traditionally problematic for rain like Slowbro, Tangrowth, Rotom-Wash, and bulky Kyurem. Finally, bulk up or power-up punch amplifies Pert's ability to clean teams but requires some prediction to use and is overall a bit awkward. You will want to fully invest EVs in Spe and Att for maximum offensive potential. Also, a Jolly nature is highly recommended. Adamant may be tempting, but it will cause you to be slower than scarf Kartana and base 100 Spe scarfers even with your swift swim boost.


***


The 3 mons I've just covered are rain essentials. If your goal is to build the best rain team possible, you should by all means be using those mons nearly 100% of the time. Everything after this point is not a prerequisite for a rain team. However, they are incredible picks and you will want to use some combination of these following mons to fill out the last 2 or 3 slots of your team.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/ferrothorn: :sm/swampert-mega: :sm/zapdos:


Zapdos is a crucial component of many rain teams as you'll probably notice from past and present sample teams. It is able to fill both an offensive and defensive role simultaneously. Although more commonly known for being a bulky balance pick, rain support lets Zapdos make better use of its impressive 125 base Sp Att than it normally could. Hurricane and thunder have huge base power which is supposed to be offset by poor accuracy. However, rain allows Zapdos to throw out these powerful STAB attacks with 100% accuracy and adds weather ball to your movepool. A combination of flying, electric, and water moves has perfect coverage in the OU tier and the most notable resist is the very niche Dracozolt. When Zapdos enters the field with rain active, it becomes a terrifying offensive presence whose answers are mostly limited to blanket Sp Def walls like Blissey, Chansey, and Mega Ttar. Thunder can be replaced by volt switch if you're using flip turn Mega Swampert on the team. It is significantly less powerful, but water/flying coverage is mostly solid and this creates a lethal volt turn core that doesn't care about ground types whatsoever. While this would probably be enough to justify using Zapdos on most rain teams, electric/flying dual typing also offers some defensive benefits. Alongside Ferrothorn, it will usually be a rain team's secondary grass resist. Kartana, Rillaboom, and Tapu Bulu which pack fighting coverage are more easily dealt with when you have a healthy Zapdos in the back. It is also a useful flying resist when the mandatory steel type for rain is neutral to these attacks. Your own weather will give opposing Zapdos 100% accurate hurricanes so this is fairly relevant to have on the team. The best way to make use of Zapdos' coverage and power is with full Sp Att and Spe investment. Base 100 speed outruns a good chunk of the tier, however bulkier spreads can be used to make Zapdos more reliable in its defensive role.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/ferrothorn: :sm/swampert-mega: :sm/zapdos: :sm/greninja-ash:


The whole idea behind weather teams is to take the 1.5x damage boost and other benefits it provides and spam multiple of this typing to overload defensive answers. Tapu Fini might be able to handle 1 water type over the course of a match but can it handle 2? or 3? You get the idea. Ash Greninja is notable for having the most raw power of any water type in the National Dex tier. The amazing speed, STAB combo, and rain-boosted priority makes it a natural choice for this kind of build. Another less obvious reason that Gren works on rain is it can force the opponent to make suboptimal plays. A smart player understands that they can't sack a pokemon to Gren without giving it a huge damage boost from Ash form. Their defensive option for water types might be something they want to keep healthy for other threats on the rain team, but because they can't sack a mon to Gren, they will be forced into the answer for water types every time which makes it much easier to overload in conjuction with Swampert or Manaphy. Gren also has some cool utility in its movepool, namely spikes. If your Ferrothorn only has room for stealth rocks on its set then spikes is one of the easiest ways to hazard stack. U-turn is another good pick if you have both flip turn Pert and volt switch Zapdos. This will allows you to keep up momentum when the opponent switches to a Gren answer like Chansey, Fini, or Pex and immediately threaten it on the next turn. Ice beam can be used to nail two water resists, grass and dragon types, which will usually open up opportunities for something else on your team to spam water moves. Full Sp Att and Spe investment with a timid nature are standard here.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/ferrothorn: :sm/swampert-mega: :sm/zapdos: :sm/weavile:


Weavile is the other best dark type for rain teams and is currently featured on the sample rain team, considered the most optimized rain build for the current meta. It's a mon that needs little introduction as it has proven to be incredibly potent in the National Dex tier with choice band, boots, and Z move sets. When it comes to rain teams, choice band is the only set you should really be using as other sets can't fit pursuit. Although Weavile doesn't specifically benefit from rain in any way, it works well on rain teams because of the incredible synergy is has with your typical rain mons. If you can get Weavile onto the field safely, it is able to threaten and potentially pursuit trap many mons which otherwise shut down rain cores like Mega Latias, Gastrodon, Kyurem, Slowbro/Slowking, and even Shedinja on stall. Rain builds can't afford many choiced mons and typically don't even have a scarfer, but they appreciate having at least one choiced mon for the immediate 1.5x damage output. For that reason, one of Ash Gren or Weavile are usually placed in this team slot with their respective choice item.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/ferrothorn: :sm/swampert-mega: :sm/zapdos: :sm/weavile: :sm/manaphy:


Moving on to the final slot on a rain team, this is where you will want to fit some kind of stallbreaker. If you're building standard rain, you should already have sufficient speed control between Mega Pert and your fast dark type. These two in combination with Zapdos offer a lot of offensive pressure, but it may not be enough to carry you through stall and fat balance matchups. Luckily, we haven't assigned a z move yet which will fit nicely on your chosen stallbreaker. Manaphy is hands down the best choice here if you want to brainlessly click your way through stall teams. Manaphy can boost its Sp Att to incredible levels in just a single turn and uses rest + hydration to prevent stall teams from wearing it down with chip damage. Compared to other water types, it also has some unique coverage options such as psychic to hit Toxapex or energy ball for Gastrodon. After one tail glow, a rain boosted Z surf can destroy even bulky resists like Ferrothorn.

Manaphy's base 100 defensive stats make it easy to get at least one boost off, and stall will be unable to status you in rain or deal any notable damage in one turn before you can become a threat. This is where having a pursuit trapper on your rain team becomes so relevant. Stall tends to either accept a losing matchup to Manaphy or resorts to one of just a few mons like Gastrodon, CM Mega Latias, or Shedinja as their answer which are all prone to being pursuit trapped. Manaphy will typically run a modest nature for maximum damage output and significant Hp investment so it can set up tail glows and heal afterwards with rest + hydration. Psychic is a good choice of coverage move for when you have a pursuit trapper on the team as Weavile will not beat Toxapex. Without one, you may want to run energy ball to not be walled by Gastrodon or even ice beam to beat CM Mega Latias. A niche option for non-pursuit builds is replacing the coverage move with toxic to mess with Gastrodon, Lati, and Shedinja all in the same moveslot.


***


Now that I've given you a bit to think about, here are some interesting off-meta rain picks you can slot into the team to make it less standard but still plenty effective.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/ferrothorn: :sm/swampert-mega: :sm/zapdos: :sm/greninja-ash: :sm/scolipede: :waterium z:


Swords dance Z aqua tail Scolipede is my own personal innovation on rain that I'm relatively proud of. It may seem like a borderline meme, but this mon is nothing to mess around with. Scolipede needs a Z move to pull this set off so it will replace your stallbreaker slot. However, you don't lose too much value here since Scolipede is surprisingly dangerous to many stall teams as a setup mon that can actually threaten unaware Clefable. Poison jab + earthquake have great coverage and +2 Z aqua tail in rain absolutely destroys the most common resists to this combo like Lando, Gliscor, Corviknight, and Mega Scizor. Scolipede becomes both strong and very fast after receiving a speed boost on the turn that you get your swords dance up. Aqua tail + earthquake gives you similar coverage to Mega Swampert and the addition of STAB poison jab to threaten grass types means these mons can overload their shared checks or break holes in a team for one or the other to sweep. Scolipede's typing also offers a ton of value to rain that isn't obvious at first glance. Because rain teams have a hard time finding chances to defog and usually focus instead on setting their own hazards, having Scolipede remove an opposing Toxapex's tspikes on switch in is a godsend. It is also a 4x resist to grass type moves so you can use these as setup bait or just keep Scolipede in the back to ensure you don't get swept by scarf Kartana or a Rillaboom.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/ferrothorn: :sm/swampert-mega: :sm/thundurus-therian: :sm/weavile:


Thundurus-Therian is one of the only mons that can give Zapdos some competition for its spot on rain. Both share the same typing, but Thundy has some unique traits that give it certain advantages (and disadvantages) over the bird which may be worth considering when you build your own team. On one hand, it is an electric immunity although the value in this is a bit questionable since rain teams should have both a Mega Swampert and a Ferrothorn to deal with this type. The main value Thundy provides is access to both focus blast and nasty plot giving it actual wallbreaking potential. It has the same electric + weather ball coverage as Zapdos, but can throw out boosted focus blasts to actually threaten Ferrothorn, Chansey, Blissey, and Mega Tyranitar which give Zapdos trouble. Without the coverage of hurricane, you will absolutely want Weavile as a teammate to help with Mega Latias and grass types not named Ferrothorn. Unfortunately, there are significant drawbacks to using Thundurus-Therian over Zapdos. For one thing, it is hardly a proper grass resist since it is much more frail and lacks the longevity that Zapdos has with roost. Since Manaphy will probably be redundant with Thundy as your wallbreaker, the 6th slot will likely need to be dedicated to yet another grass resist that can help manage Kartana, Rillaboom and Tapu Bulu. The main draw of this mon, focus blast, also has poor accuracy so you will have to choose between heavy duty boots for your stealth rock weakness or the accuracy and damage boost of fightinium Z.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/ferrothorn: :sm/swampert-mega: :sm/zapdos: :sm/greninja-ash: :sm/regieleki:


Regieleki is something I've had my doubts about for a while. After testing, I can say rain builds are one of the few places this mon fits without being too much of a joke. This is mainly because it forms a surprisingly decent electric spam core alongside Zapdos to threaten grass and ground types with hurricane and weather ball respectively. Opponents will be forced to actually keep their ground types alive which would normally be sack fodder against rain teams, and they can't even let them get chipped down much or Regieleki will pick them off with Z hyper beam. This mon will make your rain team exceptionally fast in conjunction with Mega Swampert and can spin away hazards so you have a somewhat viable form of removal outside of Pelipper's defog. It pairs great with hazard stacking Ferrothorn and either of the two premier dark types. Ash Gren + Regieleki make it exceptionally hard for the opponent to actually find chances to sack, but Weavile can chip ground types with pursuit as they try to switch out so both are viable options.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/ferrothorn: :sm/swampert-mega: :sm/zapdos: :sm/kingdra: :sm/manaphy:


Kingdra is a mon I personally don't have much experience with, but I think it deserves a brief mention as a fringe viable pick for rain teams. The main draw of Kingdra is it can be a secondary swift swimmer to increase the overall speed control of your team. Hitting via Sp Att rather than Att, it has hurricane for coverage on grass types and STAB draco meteor for Mega Lati meaning you won't share too many checks with Mega Swampert. Kingdra will probably replace the Ash Gren slot on the team as these two are mostly redundant together. However, you will still need a wallbreaker on the team and putting Manaphy in the last slot may be stacking too many water types so keep that in mind when building.


***


Before I wrap things up, I'd like to finish this post by highlighting some common mistakes and things to avoid when building rain. Some of it may seem self explanatory to an experienced player, but I want this post to be helpful for newer players who have little or no experience with rain.

:sm/politoed:

DO NOT USE THIS MON. I know I already mentioned it at the start of this post, but I'll mention it again. Politoed is a vastly inferior drizzle user to Pelipper and rain teams do not need multiple setters if played carefully, so this mon should never be showing up in your builder. Seriously. In the same vein, you shouldn't be putting rain dance on random mons on the team like Swampert or Kingdra. This is a waste of valuable moveslots and if you feel like you struggle to play rain without it, you should reevaluate how you play your Pelipper and consider if you're being too reckless with it.


:sm/tentacruel: :sm/toxicroak:


Don't use these mons either. Not so much the mons but the abilities that they represent. It may be tempting to put a rain dish or dry skin mon onto a rain team but truthfully, the only rain-related ability you want to be using is swift swim. These abilities offer very little and the mons that have access to them are extremely subpar at best. If you're just playing for fun then by all means go ahead and use a full rain team of lefties and rain dish mons.


:sm/pelipper: :sm/swampert-mega: :sm/kingdra: :sm/ludicolo: :sm/barraskewda: :sm/kabutops:


If your rain team looks like this, something has gone horribly wrong. Stacking swift swim mons is a common noob trap, and most viable rain teams will only have one or two at most. Using rain is not just about creating a team that is absurdly fast and clicking as many weather boosted attacks as possible. Unviability of most of these mons aside, a team like this has no type synergy and completely misses the nuance of the different components that make up an actually serious rain team.


***


And that about does it. This post has taken me way longer than it had any real reason to. I may edit it further if I have anything else to add but for now I'd just like to get it out there. If you made it this far and found this post even slightly interesting, maybe leave a like to help ease the pain in my wrists as I deal with the inevitable carpal tunnel syndrome I'm going to get from writing this monstrosity. Thanks!​
 
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K302

Luck is a Skill
is a Social Media Contributor
In this treath, I want to discuss 2 things that i noticed recently .

First this fini set:
:tapu-fini:
Tapu Fini @ Icium Z
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Def / 12 SpA / 40 SpD / 192 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Defog
- Scald
- Moonblast
- Haze

Fini is an very important check/softcheck to a lot of dangerous threads like tran, weavile, agren and ursh whlie being the most reliable Defoger in the tier.
But it's only recovery is Leftovers which gets knocked off by the mons its ment to check. Hazards also cut into its longevity, being neutral to all hazards and tspikes triggering before misty terrain aktivates.

But it also has another form of recovery:
z haze gives fini a full heal as secondary effect. This makes fini a far better knock absorber and lets it survive much longer.
It uses up the z crystals but if is totally worth it on a lot of (bulky-) offens.
U can run haze over basically any move, just to fit in your team.
Haze over tant is not completely useless on fini, it can help to stop a clef, latias, glisc or maw sweep. Or troll z omibosters..

2nd I want to quickly mention agren,
Agren is a bit overshadowed by prot gren atm but it is still very viable if it is evolved (and its checks removed) its basicly gg . Fini pex and ferro are everywhere, but also mons that can exploit them like kyu, zone, koko, serp, chomp….
I had a very easy time activating it recently.
Ferro and fini can be worn down with hazards pretty easily
(cuz nobody uses ZHaze:> )

Have fun!
 
:ss/lugia:

In the OU chat recently, some players have been advocating for Lugia to be unbanned. I wanted to post it here and go over the arguments for and against it being unbanned.

Bulk vs Longevity

Obviously the first thing that stands out about Lugia is its absurd 106/130/154 bulk and reliable recovery in roost. This lets it take some absurd hits, like Landorus CCrush with just full HP investment

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lugia: 340-400 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Obviously, this is beyond anything currently in the metagame, but bulk alone doesn’t make a pokemon overpowered. Lugia is crippled by toxic and if it loses boots, is taking 25% from stealth rocks, taking its bulk down severely. Most teams will have multiple reliable ways to get past Lugia without compromising their team.

Abilities

Lugia is also blessed with two amazing abilities, the standard Pressure and Multiscale.

Multiscale lets lugia pull off some absurd stunts, like living +2 Ccrush from lando or switching in and beating SD Darkinium Z kartana with ice beam or something

+2 252 Atk Kartana Black Hole Eclipse (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Lugia: 267-315 (64.1 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

However, multiscale is not perfect. It can’t save Lugia from Weavile’s Triple axel while Weavile can pursuit it to break multiscale, burn and toxic remove it, knock off makes rocks remove it, and sand can remove it. While lugia’s good speed can let it roost before the opponent attacks, this leads to being forced to roost spam, which is very exploitable.

Pressure is another great ability that complements its bulk. It lets Lugia, like Corv, pressure stall rocks as a defogger, and lets it PP stall attacks that threaten it like offzap thunderbolt (roost removes the flying weakness). I feel like this would be a better ability in most situations but I’m really not sure.

Offenses

Lugia’s offenses are the biggest letdown, with just 90 in both stats. It has some high powered STABs in aeroblast and psycho boost, but its offensive typing is quite bad. Its only boosting moves are curse and calm mind, which leave it weak for multiple turns because they only boost one stage, and make it even more vulnerable to toxic.

Roles

The two ways I could see Lugia being used are as a defogger or a CM sweeper. As a defogger, it would have issues with toxic + rocks glisc, lando and heatran, but it might use a set with ice beam + epower to handle them. It wouldn't be very reliable at switching directly into them because of toxic, but it could be a defensive presence while giving utility.

As a CM sweeper, it would be very weak until it got multiple calm minds, and it would have severe 4mss since it needs roost and cm, and then has to choose between substitute/safeguard for status, or having 2 attacks, since it’s best stabs are psyshock/stored power (lose to dark types), aeroblast(8pp), or air slash(makes you even more pathetically weak).
However, astralydia mentioned a set used in BSS singles that looks like this:

Lugia @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Calm Mind
- Aeroblast
- Earth Power

The only thing that can kill multiscale Lugia without proccing weakness policy is banded Weavile. Calm mind lets you muscle through toxic stallers, and roost prevents you from being slowly chipped down, forcing your opponent to use a super effective move.This set would be worse than it is in BSS, since passive damage is more of a thing, but it could be very scary on HO.
 
the people in the OU chat just want their favourite legendaries to come down from ag, not considering the fact that they're clearly too overwhelming for the tier and are calling top tier mons like weavile garbage to try and justify bringing them down lol
 
Hi guys my name is Kleextk on showdown and I can say I played for a bit a long time ago but now im rusty and trash so I would proposed a challenge for you guys and me ofc cuz i want a team that is viable without megas or z moves because im building this for a server and would like some help on building a team so if you can help me it would love it.

Ps: this is my first post so I dont know how this works lol this was my team so far but it only got me into 1200 ...... im lowkey ass https://pokepast.es/d041bc1af4e7ead9
 
So I've dusted off this old account because I'm taking part in my once-or-twice-yearly Pokemon Showdown obsession and I've been messing around with a bit of National Dex OU. I wanted to share a few cluttered thoughts I've had on the metagame, partly to see what others think but just partly to help myself consolidate a few thoughts. Anyway -

The positives:
  • To me it allows for more use of "fun" Pokemon than standard OU. It's hard to put a finger on why exactly, perhaps it's literally because more fun Pokemon are available.
  • There's more variety, again maybe because more Pokemon are available. Whereas in standard OU you may be missing a key piece to make a playstyle work, everything is available here and it allows for a more "complete" meta. This isn't without its drawbacks which I will elaborate on later...
  • It's hard to pinpoint exactly what I mean by this, but I've felt this is a more "true" experience of Pokemon. As someone who learnt competitive mons during early XY (which for a long time made me a newbie, but now I feel that's less true), there's something about the isolation of standard SwSh OU that fails to capture the feeling of playing competitive Pokemon back in the day. I thought maybe I was just getting old and grumpy, but returning to National Dex has really helped me to recapture that feeling.
The negatives:
  • Like I said above, having everything available is good. But some games you get to team preview and you remember, everything is available. I've made a couple teams that feel really good and have managed a lot of crazy threats, and then all of a sudden you bump into a Mega Medicham, or most recently for me, a Kyurem, and realise that you have some major holes still. This is certainly not an indicator that Pokemon like Kyurem or Medicham are broken or need to be banned - it's just an unavoidable consequence of having over 1000 Pokemon available. Teams can't prepare for everything anymore (really, they never could. It's just even harder now). Unfortunately, the consequence is that some games are effectively lost on preview and it's hard to change that.
  • I've got really used to a few positive changes from SwSh OU that are re-introduced in this metagame. The first one to come to mind is Z-Moves, which I have always hated and thought were unhealthy for well, really any metagame. Especially omni-boosting moves. Especially Clangorous Soulblaze. God I hate that move.. I won't say much more on Z-Moves because I could go on forever and I want to keep this relatively concise.
  • Hidden Power. It's been very nice being in a Metagame where you know what options your opponent has. You don't necessarily know what they've brought, but I know in standard OU that my Heatran walls Volcarona. Calling back to before, I know I can switch my Scizor into a Kyurem and not die to HP Fire (well, if they were in the game). It's caused me to think a lot about it, because if you'd asked me in gen 6, I would have argued day and night that Hidden Power isn't a problem - it's weak, it's usually fairly predictable, and it's not great on most Pokemon. But now, I think that maybe it always was a problem. I haven't written up a Manifesto on it, and it's hard to put my exact thoughts into words. But playing in the absence of Hidden Power has certainly annoyed me playing in its return.

Overall:
National Dex OU, to me, is a more enjoyable Metagame than standard OU. It's a more "complete" experience, which in some ways is detrimental, but in many other ways is able to be a more authentic experience, and one that made me remember why I enjoyed playing competitive Pokemon in the first place. I've loved playing with Megas again, I've loved being able to use my favorite Pokemon. But for a few bugbears, it's been a great experience.
 
Useless Statistical Analysis - NatDex Edition

I made a similar post yesterday in the Gen 8 OU Metagame Discussion: https://www.smogon.com/forums/threa...usage-stats-in-post-3539.3672210/post-9339537

The purpose was to look at the correlation between viability ranking and usage, as well as increase in usage from low-to-high ladder. Kyo asked me if i could do something similar for NatDex OU, a generally less competitive format (especially since the OU usage stats I was using were during OLT). So without further ado:

I took Pokemon that were in either S, S-, A+, A, A-, B+, or B rank and categorized them as such. I copied over the Aug 2022 usage stats weighed for 0, 1500, 1630, and 1760. Looked at the differences between 0 to 1630 and 0 to 1760 for each Pokemon, then looked at the average in each viability ranking. I grouped together S and S- due to small sample size.

Results

Viability TierAverage 1500 UsageAverage Usage Increase 0 ⮕ 1630Average Usage Increase 0 ⮕1760
S/S-10.7%7.0%7.8%
A+8.2%2.8%3.7%
A6.0%3.5%4.3%
A-6.4%2.3%1.9%
B+3.6%1.3%1.4%
B2.8%0.4%0.4%

We see very similar trends here as was seen in Gen 8 OU. More viability = more usage, and better players/players higher on the ladder are more likely to use Pokemon with higher viability - with even bigger shifts from low to high ladder in NatDex than in regular OU, with one exemption: Megas. The biggest difference between regular OU is Mega Pokemon - which are used much less than other Pokemon in their viability ranking on average. This is obviously due to opportunity cost and whatnot, but it still felt weird digging past 100 in the usage stats to find a Pokemon in A rank. This resulted in the numbers balancing out and being more-or-less the same as OU within each viability tier.

Winners/Losers:

Biggest increases in usage from 0 ⮕1760:

1. :Landorus-Therian: +19.6%
2. :Tapu-Fini: +11.3%
3. :Zapdos: +10.3%
4. :Kyurem: +8.8%
5. :Heatran: +8.6%
6. :Tapu-Lele: +8.0%

Biggest decreases in usage from 0 ⮕1760:

1. :Hydreigon: -1.3%
2. :Slowbro: -0.8%
3. :Volcarona: -0.7%

Yes, this way of looking at things is flawed for several reasons, but maybe there are some interesting conclusions to draw nonetheless.
 
:ss/lugia:

In the OU chat recently, some players have been advocating for Lugia to be unbanned. I wanted to post it here and go over the arguments for and against it being unbanned.

Bulk vs Longevity

Obviously the first thing that stands out about Lugia is its absurd 106/130/154 bulk and reliable recovery in roost. This lets it take some absurd hits, like Landorus CCrush with just full HP investment

252 Atk Landorus-Therian Continental Crush (180 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Lugia: 340-400 (81.7 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Obviously, this is beyond anything currently in the metagame, but bulk alone doesn’t make a pokemon overpowered. Lugia is crippled by toxic and if it loses boots, is taking 25% from stealth rocks, taking its bulk down severely. Most teams will have multiple reliable ways to get past Lugia without compromising their team.

Abilities

Lugia is also blessed with two amazing abilities, the standard Pressure and Multiscale.

Multiscale lets lugia pull off some absurd stunts, like living +2 Ccrush from lando or switching in and beating SD Darkinium Z kartana with ice beam or something

+2 252 Atk Kartana Black Hole Eclipse (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Multiscale Lugia: 267-315 (64.1 - 75.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

However, multiscale is not perfect. It can’t save Lugia from Weavile’s Triple axel while Weavile can pursuit it to break multiscale, burn and toxic remove it, knock off makes rocks remove it, and sand can remove it. While lugia’s good speed can let it roost before the opponent attacks, this leads to being forced to roost spam, which is very exploitable.

Pressure is another great ability that complements its bulk. It lets Lugia, like Corv, pressure stall rocks as a defogger, and lets it PP stall attacks that threaten it like offzap thunderbolt (roost removes the flying weakness). I feel like this would be a better ability in most situations but I’m really not sure.

Offenses

Lugia’s offenses are the biggest letdown, with just 90 in both stats. It has some high powered STABs in aeroblast and psycho boost, but its offensive typing is quite bad. Its only boosting moves are curse and calm mind, which leave it weak for multiple turns because they only boost one stage, and make it even more vulnerable to toxic.

Roles

The two ways I could see Lugia being used are as a defogger or a CM sweeper. As a defogger, it would have issues with toxic + rocks glisc, lando and heatran, but it might use a set with ice beam + epower to handle them. It wouldn't be very reliable at switching directly into them because of toxic, but it could be a defensive presence while giving utility.

As a CM sweeper, it would be very weak until it got multiple calm minds, and it would have severe 4mss since it needs roost and cm, and then has to choose between substitute/safeguard for status, or having 2 attacks, since it’s best stabs are psyshock/stored power (lose to dark types), aeroblast(8pp), or air slash(makes you even more pathetically weak).
However, astralydia mentioned a set used in BSS singles that looks like this:

Lugia @ Weakness Policy
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Calm Mind
- Aeroblast
- Earth Power

The only thing that can kill multiscale Lugia without proccing weakness policy is banded Weavile. Calm mind lets you muscle through toxic stallers, and roost prevents you from being slowly chipped down, forcing your opponent to use a super effective move.This set would be worse than it is in BSS, since passive damage is more of a thing, but it could be very scary on HO.
Might as well unban Arceus-Bug and Arceus-Ice.
They are bulky, but not that bulky and are Stealth Rock weak.
They are strong, but only 120 on each side and a forced plate.
Once you ignore how Arceus Bug and Ice have both great bulk and good offenses and have amazing movepools to do almost anything, then it seems fine. PU worthy in fact.
 
Might as well unban Arceus-Bug and Arceus-Ice.
They are bulky, but not that bulky and are Stealth Rock weak.
They are strong, but only 120 on each side and a forced plate.
Once you ignore how Arceus Bug and Ice have both great bulk and good offenses and have amazing movepools to do almost anything, then it seems fine. PU worthy in fact.
I ... what is this post even trying to say? Are you trying to say lugia is broken because arceus-bug has good offences and movepool? Why not actually talk about lugia's strengths?
 
I ... what is this post even trying to say? Are you trying to say lugia is broken because arceus-bug has good offences and movepool? Why not actually talk about lugia's strengths?
It’s sarcasm about how Lugia (and most ubers in general) getting unbanned is an absurd idea, typically only conceived when people look at an Uber’s aspects individually and in a vacuum, the forget to assemble that Pokemon in all its parts.
You’re facing a 106/130/154 Bulk Pokemon with Multiscale and reliable recovery, plus a massive movepool and offenses good enough to threaten a KO on frailer Pokemon while outspeeding a ton of Pokemon.
It would be like the Zamazenta-C suspect in regular OU, but worse since Zamazenta-C doesn’t pack recovery, can’t hold an item, hits like a wet noodle without Close Combat, has only fucking Howl as a means to set up, and couldn’t outstall anything.
Lugia would play a similar role as Zamazenta-C did as fitting on defensive teams to absolutely shit all over offensive teams, but even harder and can fit on other team styles as well. Besides destroying offense with its sheer bulk and good enough fire power (honestly better than Zamazenta-C too, which is the only thing Zama could do), you can tap into Lugia’s movepool for wide range of support options, or have it be a set up sweeper you can’t break past because of how bulk it is and because it has actually good set up moves+recovery. Hell, if you wanted to use Specs, Band, or Z-crystal Lugia. It’s so bulky and has enough fire power to get away with sets like that.
Like why the fuck should Lugia be even considered? Because it has a Stealth Rock Weakness that’s ignored by Boots? Because it its offenses would be lacking on other Pokemon? Especially why suspect Lugia when Zanazenta-C isn’t even considered?
 
It’s sarcasm about how Lugia (and most ubers in general) getting unbanned is an absurd idea, typically only conceived when people look at an Uber’s aspects individually and in a vacuum, the forget to assemble that Pokemon in all its parts.
You’re facing a 106/130/154 Bulk Pokemon with Multiscale and reliable recovery, plus a massive movepool and offenses good enough to threaten a KO on frailer Pokemon while outspeeding a ton of Pokemon.
It would be like the Zamazenta-C suspect in regular OU, but worse since Zamazenta-C doesn’t pack recovery, can’t hold an item, hits like a wet noodle without Close Combat, has only fucking Howl as a means to set up, and couldn’t outstall anything.
Lugia would play a similar role as Zamazenta-C did as fitting on defensive teams to absolutely shit all over offensive teams, but even harder and can fit on other team styles as well. Besides destroying offense with its sheer bulk and good enough fire power (honestly better than Zamazenta-C too, which is the only thing Zama could do), you can tap into Lugia’s movepool for wide range of support options, or have it be a set up sweeper you can’t break past because of how bulk it is and because it has actually good set up moves+recovery. Hell, if you wanted to use Specs, Band, or Z-crystal Lugia. It’s so bulky and has enough fire power to get away with sets like that.
Like why the fuck should Lugia be even considered? Because it has a Stealth Rock Weakness that’s ignored by Boots? Because it its offenses would be lacking on other Pokemon? Especially why suspect Lugia when Zanazenta-C isn’t even considered?
For a comment about "failing to put together all aspects of a mon", I feel you shouldve at least tried to propose some sets and why they would be broken.
For instance, the immediate comparison for a CM Lugia set would be Mega Latias.
The two mons are incredibly similar. Both boast amazing bulk, have the same speed, and aim to win by spamming CMs.
The main differences here are the fact that Latias's defensive typing and movepool are far better.
You would be gaining an Electric and Rock weakness (both very relevant weaknesses to have due to the very powerful electrics in the tier like Koko and Zapdos and the prevalence of Stealth Rock), losing weaknesses to Bug and Dragon (both very niche attacking types, mainly relegated to mainly non-STAB and usually weak U-Turns for Bug and a very few offensive mons that can carry Dragon STAB, like Mega-Xard or Dragonium Chomp), while losing resistances to a whole lot of very relevant typings, the aforementioned Electric, but also Fire and Water. The only pisitive trait regarding Typing I see in this comparison is the loss of the Fairy weakness, that gives Lugia a unique placing as a Tapu Lele answer for fatter teams.
Its also relevant that Lugia's base SpAtk stat is only 90 compared to Latias' 140, which is very relevant and a massive drop in power, meaning Latias is a much more immediate answer to many more mons.
A further point of comparison is movepool.
Notably, Lugia lacks access to Fire and Fighting coverage, which actually means its an incredibly easy mon to trap due to Weavile (and Tyranitar) actually walling it and hitting it super effectively with both STABs, Pursuit included, unless it tries to run some weird slots like Aeroblast, which are extremely lackluster and would leave Lugia walled by the existance of the Steel tyling (I cosider Psyshock a must run in a CM set to help in breaking Chansey, alongside CM itself and Roost)

0 SpA Lugia Aeroblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Weavile: 112-133 (39.8 - 47.3%), Still not a 2HKO

Furthermore, there are quite a few mons that just naturally wall this Lugia set just about forever and can exploit it to start setting up, like Mega Scizor.
Another possible set would be CM+Substitute.
In this case, what limits Lugia's effectivness is the lack of the move Stored Power in its kit, which Latias has access to, and having a pitiful base SpAtk stat, which means it gonna take a lot of time to rack up the damage to actually do something relevant.
This way of analyzing the set leads me to believe that CM Lugia would be manageable just thru conventional forms of MLatias cplay, (Or just about every other bulky setup Psychic out there like Reuniclus or DemonDeo)

The other role that I can see this mon taking on is that of a bulky, fast defogger.
Again, this set is pretty much already defined, with Defog, Roost, and Ice Beam being necessities for the mon to work at all (Ice Beam hits the common rockers Lando and Chomp, who would otherwise overwhelm easily with Toxic from defensive Lando and SD boosted Z moves or Toxic from Chomp) and the last move has to be something that provides additional utility for the whole team, something like Thunder Wave is very likely. This, to me, seems like an extremely underwhelming Defogger. Comparing it to the most common foggers shows how limited its utility is. Fini can carry Taunt, spread Scald burns to some flying mons or Terrain setters that might want to come in (Koko and Rillaboom), sets a terrain that prevents status both for itself and its teammates, and comes with the extremely rare trait of resisting both of Weavile STABs, making it a reliable short-term answer. Rotom-Wash can pivot around using Volt Switch, while still scaring Ground mons out due to Hydro Pump. It also has an incredible utility movepool, with Pain Split and Will-O-Wisp being good filler moves. Gliscor has incredible typing, incredible longevity, status immunity, and can pivot with U-Turn or get rid of key items with Knock Off, depending on what the team needs. Nicher foggers like Serperior, Kartana, Pelipper, and even the very underwhelming Corviknight all provide much better utility or offensive presence.
Meanwhile all Lugia can do is just sit there, fog away, and click Roost to try to keep its Multiscales intact.
The only 2 rockers it can reliably keep rocks off against can still find ways to severely cripple it, like Lando clicking Toxic on a Defog, and it loses against all others, all while not advancing its team's own gameplan at all.

I am not even going to address the claim that Band and Specs sets would be even close to being usable. Z move is not worth the loss of defensive capabilities due to rocks breaking Multiscale and the benefit being incredibly minimal due to the low offenses of the mon are.

With this in mind, its still hard for me to determine how Lugia would perform in an actual team, with mons picked to attenuate its shortcomings, and even tho its extremely similar to Mega Latias in many regards, the fact it doesn't reqire the Mega Stone may have some interesting implications, like the possibility to have a pseudo Mega-Latias and, for example, a Mega Scizor on the same team.

All of this makes Lugia worth of a suspect test, some time in the future

Imo imo ofc lol
 
Its also relevant that Lugia's base SpAtk stat is only 90 compared to Latias' 140, which is very relevant and a massive drop in power, meaning Latias is a much more immediate answer to many more mons.
A further point of comparison is movepool.
Notably, Lugia lacks access to Fire and Fighting coverage, which actually means its an incredibly easy mon to trap due to Weavile (and Tyranitar) actually walling it and hitting it super effectively with both STABs, Pursuit included, unless it tries to run some weird slots like Aeroblast, which are extremely lackluster and would leave Lugia walled by the existance of the Steel tyling (I cosider Psyshock a must run in a CM set to help in breaking Chansey, alongside CM itself and Roost)
Lugia can run max spatk/spd and still be basically as bulky as mega latias is, which lessens the spatk disparity (also multiscale). Past that, its calm mind sets aren't that different. Also yeah psyshock for chansey... If it were more relevant but last i checked it isn't exactly great right now.

Meanwhile all Lugia can do is just sit there, fog away, and click Roost to try to keep its Multiscales intact.
The only 2 rockers it can reliably keep rocks off against can still find ways to severely cripple it, like Lando clicking Toxic on a Defog, and it loses against all others, all while not advancing its team's own gameplan at all.
I find this to be a misconception. This would be true in ubers but in OU its bulk leaves it much less pressed to keep multiscale up at all times. It doesn't need it at every point.


With this in mind, its still hard for me to determine how Lugia would perform in an actual team, with mons picked to attenuate its shortcomings, and even tho its extremely similar to Mega Latias in many regards, the fact it doesn't reqire the Mega Stone may have some interesting implications, like the possibility to have a pseudo Mega-Latias and, for example, a Mega Scizor on the same team.

All of this makes Lugia worth of a suspect test, some time in the future
You go on about how it would be a mediocre defogger and outclassed as a CM sweeper, but this just makes me ask, what does it bring that benefits the tier then? I don't think we should be testing things like Lugia without having a good reason (being balanced and bringing a nice set of tools for teams to help building), because without a good reason it feels like wanting the novelty of a box legend in OU again rather than a competitively minded reason. I'm open to having my mind changed but right now i just fail to see the point.
 

R8

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I believe subcm Lugia is big enough as an offender to justify not suspecting it - which if it somehow happens to not be broken, would be at least be centralizing to a very unhealthy degree. The discussion should mostly focus on the sturdiness of its counterplay - as this is the most important element in the definition of a broken/unhealthy Pokemon.
Lugia @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 208 HP / 48 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Air Slash
- Roost
- Calm Mind

EVs are max speed, 101 HP substitutes and dump in SpA.
Aside from spdef Pex, Weavile, M-TTar and MMawile - if we assume that Pex wont get unlucky eventually - i'm not sure what actually checks this. Other would-be-answers are inconsistent when they don't outright lose: Heatran is just setup fodder without taunt, and even with it it just gets pp stalled, MScizor is inconsistent as it needs a couple turns to be actually threatening (Knock less needs to be at +4 to 2HKO with BP), as which puts it at risk of losing to consecutive flinches (+1 48 SpA Lugia Air Slash vs. 248 HP / 244 SpD Scizor-Mega: 93-111 (27.1 - 32.3%) -- 69.3% chance to 3HKO after Stealth Rock), Electrics cant break through it after a CM boost aside from Specs Koko - which does a pitiful 50-60% with TBolt anyway, and more passive answers such as the blobs and knockless ferrothorn are just setup fodder (if you are wondering: yes, +6 Air Slash is a 3HKO on stuff like Corv and Chansey, so they will lose when they get eventually flinched).

Lugia would definitively push the metagame in an unhealthy direction if it somehow happens to not be broken, as you will have to go out of your way in the builder to not lose to Sub CM or being able to break through defensive cores involving multiscale sets. People do exaggerate a bit about how broken it would be imo - as the mon isn't impossible to deal with, but so does most broken pokemon anyway - but having to slap Weavile or TTar in every team is not a desirable prospect for the future of the tier.
 
Why cant we suspect some of the weaker arceus forms? like bug poison and water? if offensive sets are not broken they could be a valuable defensive addition to the tier.
Most of the "bad" Arceus forms would be able to run pmuch every set that they couldn't before due to better options being available.

Aside from stats and movepool being absolutely godlike, i'd say no arceus form that isn't weak to rocks should ever be mentioned LOL
 
Most of the "bad" Arceus forms would be able to run pmuch every set that they couldn't before due to better options being available.

Aside from stats and movepool being absolutely godlike, i'd say no arceus form that isn't weak to rocks should ever be mentioned LOL
What about bug or ice?
 

R8

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What about bug or ice?
There isnt much that is able to stop it reliably. In terms of counters it has the coverage to hit pretty much everything, on top of its access to Calm Mind and Swords Dance. On top of that, its bulk is just absurd for an offensive pokemon - 120 120 120 is better than pokemon like Tangrowth or Hippowdon! - which means it is pretty much impossible to revenge kill from full. Even uninvested, it can eat pretty much any super effective stab hit (excluding Z moves) (an example: 252+ SpA Heatran Magma Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Arceus-Ice: 306-362 (80.3 - 95%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after trapping damage)

CM Arceus-Ice, for example, lacks consistent answers in the metagame:
Arceus-Ice @ Icicle Plate
Ability: Multitype
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Judgment
- Earth Power
- Recover

You can go through the viability ranking and see that pretty much nothing could reliably beat it - aside from MLop and MZor, and you could still go for a much bulkier spread to take on Close Combat (which barely kills already lol - 252 Atk Lopunny-Mega Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus-Ice: 348-410 (91.3 - 107.6%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO) or run Fire Blast to nuke MZor, which obviously does not do anything to you with Bullet Punch.

Arceus Bug prolly wouldn't be as stupid as Arceus-Ice - as Ice is a really good offensive typing - however between its stats potentially allowing it to tech EVs for bulk to survive pretty much anything it wants while potentially outspeeding a significant portion of the metagame (For reference, 120 is better than already quite fast Pokemon like Serperior, M-Latias or Kartana) and its extensive movepool (Including the aformentionned Calm Mind and Swords Dance of course, but also colorful movepool allowing it to hit anything with 90-120 Base Power coverage, reliable recovery, and even great utility movepool including stuff like Will-O-Wisp, Thunder Wave, Refresh, and even has Defog and Stealth Rocks lol. I bet you could run stuff like Iron Defense CM as well and be unkillable for offense.) allowing it to do anything, and most importantly beat anything (which means there is no guaranteed answer to Arceus-Bug), we can be pretty sure Arceus Bug will be broken in the metagame. For any pokemon in the metagame, there most certainly is at least one good Arceus-Bug set that can beat it.
 

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