Metagame National Dex Other Metagames Megathread

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Welcome to the National Dex Other Metas Megathread! This thread will be used to discuss Other Metagames in the National Dex format.
This is not the thread for Gen 8 Other Metagames, those belong in the Gen 8 OM Forum.

Rules
1) All global forum rules still apply. Make sure you read and follow them.
2) Please stay on thread topic and don't flame, troll, or insult other users and their posts. It is alright to dispute someone's points in a post, but do so in a respectful and positive manner, as to promote better posting in this thread and on the website as a whole.
3) Please do not post unintelligent one liners or simple questions in this thread, those are more easily answered on discord or in simulator chatrooms like the OM Room and the NatDex Room.

What are National Dex Mechanics?
Megazard's post here explains NatDex mechanics and details in depth, including details about Megas, Z-Moves, Gigantamax, and new learnsets.

What OMs are included in this post?
As of right now, there will be 5 OMs supported in this thread. They are Balanced Hackmons, Mix and Mega, Almost Any Ability, STABmons, and Camomons. However, other intelligent posts regarding other NatDex OMs are accepted and encouraged.

Frequently Asked Questions
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General Resources and Directory
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Only few things i wanted to share in STABmons.
Fishious Rend - 85 BP Water-Type move that doubles the power if the user moves first.

Abusers:


Swampert-Mega @ Swampertite
Ability: Swift Swim
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Jolly / Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Precipice Blades
- Ice Punch
- Shore Up
Obviously the main abuser is going to be Mega Swampert. With rain boosting its Water STAB + Swift Swim doubing its speed means it will almost always get 170 BP STAB from the move.

252 Atk Swampert-Mega Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash in Rain: 159-187 (52.3 - 61.5%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

One of few mon that can avoid a 2HKO from this was full physically defensive Tangrowth.

252+ Atk Swampert-Mega Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth in Rain: 156-185 (38.6 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery


Sharpedo-Mega @ Sharpedonite
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Crunch
- Ice Fang
- Obstruct

Apparently, I heard that Fishious Rend is boosted by Strong Jaw... reaching 254/255 BP ( If Strong Jaw boost goes first before doubling BP). Its so strong to the point it deals slightly higher than Crunch when used against Water-resist. Also, it has Speed boost pre-mega. Obstruct works well with some physical attackers like Sharpedo by lowering Defense stats from pokemon using contact moves like U-turn, Close Combat, Power Whip, etc.

252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Crunch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 156-184 (51.3 - 60.5%) -- 90.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Strong Jaw Sharpedo-Mega Fishious Rend (170 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Rotom-Wash: 165-195 (54.2 - 64.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

Will add more later. I ran out of time :/
 
Yaaaassss I can have my Pixilate+ExtremeSpeed Diancie-Mega back again!

Okay to avoid one-liners I’ll post a few sets for MnM.

:Barraskewda:
Barraskewda @ Lopunnite
Ability: Scrappy
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Timid Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Close Combat

Stats: 61 / 123 / 60 / 60 / 50 / 136 —> 61 / 173 / 70 / 60 / 50 / 166 (new typing Water-Fighting)
The Barracuda is back. This time even more overpowered.

:Barraskewda:
Barraskewda @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Timid Nature
- Waterfall
- Crunch
- Psychic Fangs
- Close Combat

Stats: 61 / 123 / 60 / 60 / 50 / 136 —> 61 / 183 / 20 / 120 / 10 / 196
You want a glass cannon? This is the stupidest thing alive. Magic Bounce is a direct upgrade from Swift Swim, and 196 Speed is almost definitely one of the fastest things alive.

:Corviknight:
Corviknight @ Tyranitarite
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: anything you feel like running
any Nature you want Nature
- Bulk Up
- Substitute
- Brave Bird
- Roost

Stats: 98 / 87 / 105 / 53 / 85 / 67 —> 98 / 117 / 145 / 53 / 105 / 77
More defensive and higher attack. Brave Birds actually hurt now.

:hattarene:
Hatterene @ Ampharosite
Ability: Mold Breaker
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpA
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Mystical Fire
- Calm Mind

Stats: 57 / 90 / 95 / 136 / 103 / 29 —> 57 / 110 / 115 / 186 / 123 / 19 (new typing: Psychic-Dragon)
Nice bulk, crazy Special Attack. Loss of Magic Bounce and worse typing hurts though, but Mold Breaker isn’t the worst ability you can get I guess.

:Centiskorch:
Centiskorch @ Heracronite
Ability: Skill Link
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Atk / 4 Def
Adamant Nature
- Leech Life
- Fire Lash
- Knock Off
- Power Whip

New stats: 100 / 115 / 65 / 90 / 90 / 65 —> 100 / 175 / 105 / 90 / 100 / 55
Generally not the best abuser but it has one of the higher BSTs.

:Darmanitan-Galar:
Darmanitan-Galar @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Flare Blitz
- U-Turn
- Earthquake

Darmanitan-Galar @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 Def / 252 Spe
Adamant / Jolly Nature
- Substitute
- Belly Drum
- Icicle Crash
- Flare Blitz / Earthquake / U-Turn

Stats: 105 / 140 / 55 / 30 / 55 / 95 —> 105 / 200 / 15 / 90 / 15 / 155
Loss of Gorrila Tactics in exchange for crazy high Attack. Super fast too, but glassy Defenses. I only just realised that G-Darm actually isn’t the strongest Pokemon without Gorrila Tactics.

One last question: in NatDex MnM are Blue & Red Orb + Dragon Ascent allowed?

Edit: edited Bannetite on Darm-G, giving it more firepower. The lesson: Diancie is for glass cannons.
 
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drampa's grandpa

turtonator's gurtonator
is a Forum Moderator
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:sm/blastoise-mega:
Natdex STABmons

Blastoise-Mega @ Blastoisinite
Ability: Mega Launcher
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Shell Smash
- Origin Pulse
- Filler

Shell Smash Origin Pulse Blastoise is gonna hit absurdly hard. It barely needs coverage, although Aura Sphere is nice for Ferrothorn.

Other nice fillers are Water Shuriken for priority, Dark Pulse for... Jellicent?, and Ice Beam for various bulky Grass or Dragon types. Standard stuff. Except now resists need super high health to live the STAB attack you run.

+2 252+ SpA Mega Launcher Blastoise-Mega Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 8 SpD Eviolite Chansey: 385-454 (54.7 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
 
For you Suicide Cup fans out there, I figured that I may as well try to assemble some Gen 8 NatDex-only Suicide Cup sets that still have niches in the Gen 8 Suicide Cup meta. Warning: this list is long.

:smeargle:
Smeargle @ Mental Herb
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Mind Blown
- Perish Song
- Whirlwind
- Baton Pass

Smeargle can use any moveset it wants (well, at least in Gen 7), and that's how it got to S rank in Gen 7. The PerishPasser set with Whirlwind and Mind Blown is my personal favourite for its sheer splashability, but Smeargle also uses Purify, Knock Off, Floral Healing, Spore, and all other kinds of moves well. Even if Smeargle can learn Steel Beam, Mind Blown is preferred for the lower numbers of Mind Blown fodder in the Gen 8 Suicide Cup meta.

:absol-mega:
Absol @ Absolite
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spe
Timid / Hasty / Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Perish Song
- Baton Pass
- Taunt
- Snatch / Thunder Wave / Substitute

Celebi still feels like a terrible PerishPasser compared to this. This was one of the best PerishPassers in Gen 7 Suicide Cup because of its high speed and Magic Bounce, and this encouraged phazing moves on teams. Snatch provides a unique angle on disrupting Belly Drummers and some Steel Beamers by taking away their Belly Drums and Substitutes. PerishPassing may be more important in Gen 8 NatDex Suicide Cup, as Ditto is distinctly worse against the higher number of Imprison users in the Gen 8 meta.

:tapu fini:
Tapu Fini @ Black Sludge / Mago Berry
Ability: Misty Surge
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def
- Taunt
- Heal Pulse
- Substitute
- Defog / Knock Off / Magic Coat / Trick

Misty Surge (and Misty Terrain) are unbanned in Gen 8 Suicide Cup, and with great shifts in the Gen 8 meta towards Black Sludge-loving Stealth Rock Court Change teams and Steel Beam Spam teams, these unbans are looking safe. Other than a neutrality to instead of a weakness to Steel Beam, Tapu Fini looks like a significantly better Misty Surge user than Weezing-Galar - a much higher speed tier and a better movepool are key. Use Timid with Knock Off and Mago Berry with Trick. Defog blows away Misty Terrain in Gen 8, but it's worth it against SR Court Change teams. Tapu Fini is forced to have at least 3 perfect IVs, so I put them on Speed, Special Attack, and Special Defence.

:slowpoke:
Slowpoke @ Black Sludge
Ability: Oblivious
EVs: 56 HP
Quiet Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD / 0 Spe
- Belly Drum
- Substitute
- Magic Coat / Heal Pulse
- Trick Room / Heal Pulse

One edge Oblivious Belly Drum Spam teams have over Steel Beam Spam teams is that Belly Drum doesn't injure the opponent. This Slowpoke is one example of an Oblivious Belly Drummer - another example is Walrein, who can Roar away Snatch users and opposing Belly Drummers. Magic Coat makes Encore and phazing users think twice. The HP EVs make Slowpoke's HP divisible by 8 so it can self-2HKO, and they also prevent the teambuilder from complaining. Use a Speed-boosting nature and actual Speed IVs and EVs if you're not using Trick Room.

:murkrow:
Murkrow @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Perish Song
- Whirlwind
- Defog / Substitute / Snatch / Tailwind / Thunder Wave

One of the best Prankster users that didn't survive Dexit, Murkrow is unique among Prankster users in that it can self-3HKO. Whirlwind ensures that the opponent cannot take advantage of Perish Song. Murkrow can still do plenty of Prankster-y things, but it's one of the only Prankster users who can Defog.

:comfey:
Comfey @ Toxic Orb / Pecha Berry / Mago Berry
Ability: Triage
EVs: 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 1 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Floral Healing
- Substitute
- Magic Coat / Aromatherapy / Tailwind / Trick

Comfey has at least a theoretical niche as being able to heal opponents with a priority move (Floral Healing combined with Triage). Having only 100 base Speed hurts it, though, as many Steel Beam users can Sub before Comfey Taunts them, and Cobalion in particular outspeeds and Taunts it. Magic Coat can at least turn the tables on Cobalion and other faster Taunters, though. Use the berries with Trick. The Naive nature is to make it as good of a Steel Beam fodder as possible, and 1 HP IV lets it make Subs more easily.

:aerodactyl:
Aerodactyl @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spe
Naive / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Defog
- Substitute
- Whirlwind / Tailwind / Snore

Tied for fastest non-Mega Taunt and Defog user with Crobat and Tapu Koko, Aerodactyl distinguishes itself with weaknesses to Steel Beam and Stealth Rock.

:deoxys-speed:
Deoxys-Speed @ Toxic Orb / Pecha Berry
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 Spe
Naive / Hasty / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Substitute
- Teleport
- Thunder Wave / Snatch / Knock Off / Trick

Deoxys-S is the fastest user of Taunt who doesn't need an ability to be that fast, and Teleport makes it a nifty disruptive pivot. The 4th slot just adds to the disruption. Use Timid with Knock Off and Pecha Berry with Trick.

:nosepass:
Nosepass @ Black Sludge
Ability: Magnet Pull
EVs: 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Taunt
- Magic Coat
- Substitute
- Thunder Wave

Magnet Pull and Taunt make Nosepass a uniquely effective Steel Beam fodder. Non-Steel types with Steel Beam such as Zacian, Silvally, and Zamazenta can still switch out, though, and Steel Beam users with Magic Coat such as Jirachi, Silvally, and Klink can stymie Nosepass's efforts. Some weak Steel Beam users such as Bronzor and Togedemaru may not OHKO Nosepass. Magic Coat makes Nosepass better against fair teams and Steel Beam users with Taunt such as Cobalion and Pawniard.

:zoroark:
Zoroark @ Black Sludge
Ability: Illusion
EVs: 252 Spe
Hasty / Naive / Timid Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Atk / 0 Def / 0 SpA / 0 SpD
- Substitute
- Taunt
- Imprison / Roar
- Roar / Snatch / Snore

People need to deal with SR Court Change mons and Steel Beam spammers in distinctive and predictable ways, so take advantage of this with Zoroark. Watch them lose tempo trying to Prankster Taunt this Dark-type, switching in their Steel Beam fodder while you Taunt them on the switch, or using anything but Substitute or Steel Beam after you Imprison while disguised as a Steel Beam user. Black Sludge and Substitute help it resemble a Steel Beam user.
 
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Just here to post a couple of tours code and teams I made for Balanced Hackmons Natdex, Stabmons Natdex, and Almost Any ability Natdex ( for the teams i'm not a great builder :psycry: )

Balanced Hackmons National
It's litteraly Balanced Hackmons + past and + unreleased. Maybe I miss something but it works well with my teams : Tour code
These Teams were built with most SM sets, and then i added some cool things I found with SS mechanics.

Almost Any Ability National
This tour code is based on OU Natdex, with AAA bans and main mechanic : Tour code
To make this I took the SM and SS's idea and ggwp : Teams

Stabmons National
This one is glitched, because there isn't a Stabmons Natdex clause/mod/rule or anything, who allows you to use Stab moves including olds gens moves. So for exemple, with this tour code, Volcanion could use steam eruption but not Cloyster !! I think nobody want to add this rule so rip stabmons national...
If you want to test it, this one allows you to use any stab of the actual generation with all the pokémon ( and with SS Stabmons bans ) so feel free to test
Here are the teams I made with this bad tour code, but well this isn't true Stabmons Natdex : Teams

I'm sure Natdex + OMs had a big potential so post
and thanks Eccalliti ✿ for the correction :)
 
Introducing from National Dex STABmons, Mega Lopunny!

:sm/lopunny-mega:
Lopunny-Mega @ Lopunnite
Ability: Limber
- Swords Dance
- Multi-Attack
- Close Combat
- Rapid Spin

Mega Lopunny can take advantage of both the buffed Multi-Attack and Rapid Spin. Just a cool set I wanted to share whilst saying I’m working on a National Dex STABmons code that has compatibility with snapped moves. (Shoutout to placuszek for the help).

Edit: Well the code exists https://pastebin.com/ZAFC2Nfy
‘Your message is too long’
Ok bye 4+ hours I’ll never get back.
 
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Hey, I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this. If there's a better place, please lmk. Anyway, I've been experimenting lately with a few OMs, but in Natdex AG variants. Tour codes for the below formats are available on request for anyone who wants to make some cool tourneys. So far, I've done Camomons and Flipped, with MnM waiting on some coding changes for it to be an option. I'll provide my thoughts on them below.

Flipped
Flipped AG is super fun. It combines a lot of alarmingly bulky walls with a lot of firepower to break the walls. Some major offensive threats are, unsurprisingly, the primals, especially primal groudon, which has absolutely absurd special bulk and firepower, and can now really take advantage of its special movepool. Stuff like Deo-A looks good on paper as a wall, with 150/180/180 bulk, but it turns out that it really doesn't have the movepool to effectively abuse it, and it invites in lots of steel types that can use it as setup fodder. A somewhat better alternative, in my opinion, is Mega Mewtwo X, with its massive special and physical bulk coupled with a good hp stat and solid support movepool, allowing it to spread burns and taunts. Ho-Oh is absolutely amazing as a dynamax sweeper, able to take full advantage of its massive new 154 attack with its solid movepool. Xerneas can now get far more setup opportunities, but at the cost of reduced firepower. Z-geomancy sets are, however, incredibly potent. Lugia now has solid physical and special attacking stats, and I've seen Calm Mind sets that have some pretty impressive power.
Here're some cool replays from a few flipped ag tours I managed to convince Ice to run the other day.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1115704939 -- tour finals
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1112187689 -- another tour finals where some guy with a normal? ag team wound up doing pretty well.

Camomons
Camo AG is incredibly interesting. Zacian-C can get Close Combat STAB, which is absolutely insane, but it's hardcountered by poison-dark shedinja, which beats virtually anything without ground coverage, and as thus is a huge restriction on teambuilding. The ability to run any STAB on Xerneas is enormous, and leads to terrifying things like Thunder STAB, which is incredibly difficult to deal with. If it has HP ground, the only reliable checks are grass or ground types, and it can run coverage for those, too. NDM is less good in camo AG, because stuff like Zygarde-C can get the same typing but with even more bulk. Stuff like Giratina can serve a similar function to Lugia, running strong defensive typings with ludicrous bulk. Also, a lot more things can get setup opportunities on ground moves, such as Hurricane Mewtwo, which is an amazing Dynamax abuser. Once again, however, anything without ground coverage loses by force to dark-poison Shedinja. I'm really curious to see if any one else has really good ideas for techs to make shedinja matchups easier besides hp ground on everything. Here're some cool replays from a camo ag tour where I fucked up the tour code and accidentally made it PH but people didn't notice so :blobshrug: .

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1116356994
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1116351239
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1116345071

As you can see, shedinja was incredibly dominant, but still managed to lose to too many ground moves. If I can find some way to make more of these tours happen, that'd be great, because I'm really curious to see how these two metas develop. Also I've talked to a coding person about being able to run MnM AG tours, so I'm looking forward to that being pretty cool.

E: I got one of the AG staff to make another tour, and this time, people actually built dedicated camomons teams. The result was a super fun finals match, the like of which I really want to see more of. Here it is!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1117665120
E2: This happened in a GC — very fun, and an illustration that this meta isn’t all that broken!
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexag-1117693101-j2962p65yl7cki22yufw3ri4z7g600upw
 
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