Metagame National Dex Metagame Discussion

[Cabneet]

(On Darm) It’s tricky to find good defensive counterplay, as none basically exists, so I think in teambuilding you need at least two ‘mons that can outspeed and threaten the OHKO

This alone is enough to warrant a ban, desu, especially considering that darm isnt a slow mon.

 

[N_Mareanie]

This alone is enough to warrant a ban, desu, especially considering that darm isnt a slow mon.

I mean, it’s still possible to have somewhat decent switch ins, it’s such sad that U-turn kind of invalidates all of these. Rotom-Wash, Rotom-Heat, (Mega) Slowbro etc. All others bulky waters get U-turned out on / are heavily threatened by CB Earthquake (which is still solid btw), but Suicune and Alomomola can probably take it on. While tricky, it’s still possible, so I’d prefer waiting.

 

[LORD SAGIS]

Since someone brought up Glaceon, I would share a very similar wallbreaker.


Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Freeze-Dry
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]

While usually used as pressure staller, Kyurem can also be used a wallbreaker thanks to its amazing coverage. Gaining Freeze-Dry means it no longer has trouble breaking past Bulky Waters. Focus Blast hits Heatran and Tyranitar, HP Fire is for Ferrothorn and M-Scizor. I think the only thing that can switch into it safely is Chansey and thats a really good sign for a wallbreaker.

Kyurem also has a good Physical Atk stat and Dragon Dance but I haven't used it yet. Its probably decent as well. You can add this to the Viability List if you want Solaros (Also remove Deoxys-D is literally a inferior Mew).

 

[Solaros & Lunaris]

You can add this to the Viability List if you want Solaros

Did, also added some Trick Room abusers because like Sun, TR might be viable this gen.

 

[The Amazonian Rainforest]

Paging Funbot28 maybe you can collaborate with Solaros & Lunaris to create an official Viability List thread? It would be a great starting resource for the influx of new players that will come on January 5th.

 

[N_Mareanie]

I mean creating a VR now is kind of difficult, since the meta will drastically change after the Dynamax ban, so the VR would not be representing the meta at all. I think it’s better to wait like 1/2 weeks after the Dynamax ban to create an official VR, to not mislead any newcomers.

 

[VCrakeV]

On the topic of Darm-G... from what I've heard, unaware ignores the boost from gorilla tactics (Serebii even describes the effect of GT as raising the attack stat by one stage). This means that Pyukumuku and Quag can check Darm-G (Quag just barely avoids the 2HKO from banded sets after leftovers recovery, while Pyukumuku easily walls). U-Turn shakes this up a bit, wearing Darm's checks down to a 2HKO, but this applies to a lot of Pokemon with u-turn and volt switch. If you really want to counter Darm-G, Alomomola is your pick. It avoids the 2HKO from banded GT EQ after leftovers recovery, and takes zero damage form u-turn after regenerator and leftovers recovery.

These are, of course, stall picks, but that's it when it comes to breakers like Darm-G. More balanced and offensive teams should try to revenge kill or set up on Darmanitan (e.g if it bops your Toxapex with EQ, you can set up with a flying type or levitating Pokemon).

I don't feel that Darm is particularly broken, though it is much harder to consistently switch in on in Galarian OU, due to the lack of Pokemon in the tier. We should at least see how it is treated there before discussing a ban or suspect test.

 

[Cabneet]

On the topic of Darm-G... from what I've heard, unaware ignores the boost from gorilla tactics (Serebii even describes the effect of GT as raising the attack stat by one stage). This means that Pyukumuku and Quag can check Darm-G (Quag just barely avoids the 2HKO from banded sets after leftovers recovery, while Pyukumuku easily walls). U-Turn shakes this up a bit, wearing Darm's checks down to a 2HKO, but this applies to a lot of Pokemon with u-turn and volt switch. If you really want to counter Darm-G, Alomomola is your pick. It avoids the 2HKO from banded GT EQ after leftovers recovery, and takes zero damage form u-turn after regenerator and leftovers recovery.

These are, of course, stall picks, but that's it when it comes to breakers like Darm-G. More balanced and offensive teams should try to revenge kill or set up on Darmanitan (e.g if it bops your Toxapex with EQ, you can set up with a flying type or levitating Pokemon).

I don't feel that Darm is particularly broken, though it is much harder to consistently switch in on in Galarian OU, due to the lack of Pokemon in the tier. We should at least see how it is treated there before discussing a ban or suspect test.

Ask yourself this; are mons like quagsire and suicune REALLY what you want to be running as your bulky water when this happens?
252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 145-171 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
And
252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 388-457 (98.4 - 115.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
(This is with no rain lmao)
No. Stall NEEDS the water immunity. Not to mention mons like gren being stronger than ever.

You might think this has nothing to do with darm, but that's just it; darm's obscene power is so centralizing that you basically have to pick which pokemon you just lose to if you arent running a speedy team that can revenge it while threatening its teammates.
So who is the bigger problem? Vish or darm? I think most would agree its darm.
And to be clear, darm is slightly easier to handle right now because you can dynamax on it (which isnt to say that darm isnt an excellent abuser of dmax itself, but that is usually how I handle it without getting half my team mangled in the few games I have been experimenting with teams closer to full stall), but of course this wont be the case for long, and I'd assume most people are thinking to the future when dmax will very obviously be banned.

 

[Cabneet]

Since someone brought up Glaceon, I would share a very similar wallbreaker.


Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Draco Meteor
- Freeze-Dry
- Focus Blast
- Hidden Power [Fire]

While usually used as pressure staller, Kyurem can also be used a wallbreaker thanks to its amazing coverage. Gaining Freeze-Dry means it no longer has trouble breaking past Bulky Waters. Focus Blast hits Heatran and Tyranitar, HP Fire is for Ferrothorn and M-Scizor. I think the only thing that can switch into it safely is Chansey and thats a really good sign for a wallbreaker.

Kyurem also has a good Physical Atk stat and Dragon Dance but I haven't used it yet. Its probably decent as well. You can add this to the Viability List if you want Solaros (Also remove Deoxys-D is literally a inferior Mew).

I like this but I would like to remind people that the pressure stall set is nutty with heavydutyboots. In fact I think kyurem might be one of the best abusers of the item up there with the various high tier fire types.

 

[LORD SAGIS]

Ask yourself this; are mons like quagsire and suicune REALLY what you want to be running as your bulky water when this happens?
252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 145-171 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
And
252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 388-457 (98.4 - 115.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
(This is with no rain lmao)
No. Stall NEEDS the water immunity. Not to mention mons like gren being stronger than ever.

You might think this has nothing to do with darm, but that's just it; darm's obscene power is so centralizing that you basically have to pick which pokemon you just lose to if you arent running a speedy team that can revenge it while threatening its teammates.
So who is the bigger problem? Vish or darm? I think most would agree its darm.
And to be clear, darm is slightly easier to handle right now because you can dynamax on it, but of course this wont be the case for long, and I'd assume most people are thinking to the future when dmax will very obviously be banned.

I don't want to call for bans while theres already a Suspect going on. However I do think GT Darm-G is much more threatening than Dracovish. Dracovish maybe has a more powerful move but if theres a Water Immunity on the opponents team it actually struggles to do that much considering its disappointing 90 Atk. Strong Jaws helps but considering there are plenty of Dark and Psychics resists around so its not too bad. Darm-G however gets U-Turn so defensive counterplay is way harder to relie on. Not only that, all its moves hit disgustingly hard so trying pivot into this beast is Heart Shaking at best.

Also I just want to touch something I find funny. Deoxys-D has been banned for 5 gens now and when it comes back its literally outclassed by Mew. It has higher speed and the 2nd largest movepool in the game. Deoxys-D niche is now just generic Pressure Stall nowadays cause Mew is just more reliable at setting up Hazards.

I really like bulky Mew right now because it can annoy balance teams and even stall teams lacking M-Sableye.

Mew @ Leftovers
Ability: Synchronize
EVs: 252 HP / 72 Def / 184 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Seismic Toss / Knock Off
- Spikes / Stealth Rock
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp / Toxic
- Soft-Boiled

As you can see, Mew has lot options it can run. Just a really great support pokemon. EVs are to outspeed Landorus-T.

 

[Zneon]

Speaking of Unbans, ever since Genesect got unbanned, I've been quite the fan. Offensively, it can use Band, Scarf or even Specs effectively, it can run threatening sweeping sets with SG or RP or just be mixed with Expert Belt, where I have been using a special variant of Expert Belt which has been really consistent for me.

Genesect @ Expert Belt
Ability: Download
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Flamethrower
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power [Ground] / Bug Buzz

With this, it can be a pretty reliable pivot, while also breaking defensive cores, especially with a Download boost, I've chosen HP Ground because most of the time, Heatran is going to be the most reliable counter to Genesect, and after SR damage and a Download boost, it has a really high chance to OHKO SpDef Heatran. Or if you say no to that, Bug Buzz is really strong stab that can break anything that doesn't resist after a Download boost.

I'm certain that after Dynamax gets banned, Genesect will no doubt be much better than now, considering that the double to HP prevents it from getting consistent kills on stuff it normally would.

 

[Sputnik]

I'd like to take a moment to talk about this bad boy here.

Good old AA gun Mega Blastoise is already a proven cleaner/wallbreaker on hyper offense, but its currently being held back by a couple of factors, the main one being dynamaxing. The fact that it can't dynamax itself means that its sweeps can be cut short if something that it would normally beat just dynamaxes and then annihilates it with a max move. Pretty standard stuff, an issue that a lot of Pokemon are dealing with right now.

But lets assume that dynamax gets banned. This thing gets soooo much better without dynamaxing in the format. Unless you are packing something like Tapu Fini or Chansey your best bet against this was to just dynamax something reasonably bulky like Magearna and revenge kill the hapless turtle. This will obviously no longer be possible if going big is banned. Timid Variants outrun a lot of common choice scarfers and still have enough power to get by provided that you keep hazards up so it can pick up a couple of crucial KOs. Only really fast Scarfers like Gren and Tapu Koko actually outrun this after a boost. The list of things that can actually reliably beat Mega Blastoise after it gets set up is short, and a stray Dark Pulse Flinch can put an end to even some of those. I don't know if this will be worth an extra look at, but make no mistake; the turtle will be extremely good if we ban dynamaxing.

 

[VCrakeV]

Ask yourself this; are mons like quagsire and suicune REALLY what you want to be running as your bulky water when this happens?
252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Pyukumuku: 145-171 (46.1 - 54.4%) -- 98.8% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
And
252 Atk Choice Band Strong Jaw Dracovish Fishious Rend vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Quagsire: 388-457 (98.4 - 115.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
(This is with no rain lmao)
No. Stall NEEDS the water immunity. Not to mention mons like gren being stronger than ever.

You might think this has nothing to do with darm, but that's just it; darm's obscene power is so centralizing that you basically have to pick which pokemon you just lose to if you arent running a speedy team that can revenge it while threatening its teammates.
So who is the bigger problem? Vish or darm? I think most would agree its darm.
And to be clear, darm is slightly easier to handle right now because you can dynamax on it (which isnt to say that darm isnt an excellent abuser of dmax itself, but that is usually how I handle it without getting half my team mangled in the few games I have been experimenting with teams closer to full stall), but of course this wont be the case for long, and I'd assume most people are thinking to the future when dmax will very obviously be banned.

If you're playing stall, rocks should never get up; if they do, it's probably because you don't have hazard control for the rocker your opponent has. That means they are either using a niche/uncommon rocker, or your team is not well prepared. Anyway, point is that Pyukumuku almost always avoids the 2HKO with no hazards on the field.

Quag should not be used as a water resist anyway, because it literally isn't one. Even if you're using Pyukumuku, you're free to use another water resist. Mantine is cool, which serves as a Heatran check too. Tangrowth is a good anti-breaker, checking stuff like Bulu, Zygarde, and Kartana. For what it's worth, Appletun can avoid the 2HKO from banded fishious rend in the rain. Alomomola walls without rain (or rain without band), and it can even knock off choice band.

Anyway, I agree that Darmanitan-G is problematic for the reasons you've provided... but I just want to point out that you aren't forced to choose between having a Dracovish check and a Darm check.

 

[Vinicius666666]

I was playing to vote for suspect, but a NatDex beta ladder disappeared. what do I do?

 

[Solaros & Lunaris]

Tapu Koko @ Shuca Berry / Electrium Z
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Hidden Power Ice / Toxic
- Volt Switch / U-turn
- Roost

Relationship ended with Choice Specs and Dual Screens, Shuca is my friend now. Koko took a major hit in this metagame, between the massive Terrain nerf and the introduction of Dragapult. This, along with Z-Wild Charge, are what I believe to be the best Koko sets right now. Shuca Berry makes Koko a fantastic pivot by virtue of its resistances and the one time withstanding of a Ground-type move. HP Ice + Volt Switch is the go to—crippling many of the 4x ice weaks to outspeed—but ToxTurn is also fantastic. Nothing really wants to take a Toxic or a Thunderbolt/Gigavolt Havoc, so you’re free to pick moves as you please. Also, Koko is the best answer to our best Defoggers, Tornadus-T and Corviknight, right now.


Genesect @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Download
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- U-turn
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt
- Explosion

Scarf Genesect is what the mon is best known for, and I think it’s still a good choice in the metagame, especially considering Dugtrio’s existence. It’s ability to force Pex switch-ins leads to a free trap, and then something like Zard-Y or G-Darm just goes ham. Past that, it revenge kills Darm, but it’s just below the +1 base 100s benchmark, as well as being unable to touch Volcarona. The latter part is the reason I’m running Explosion, but it also gives me a huge burst of damage with a free switch if I need it.


Volcanion @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 160 HP / 252 SpA / 96 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Steam Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Defog

Volcanion is fantastic as its a Dracovish check that Defogs while not being as passive as Mantine or Seismitoad. It also abuses Toxic Spikes Toxapex to no end, as well as choice-locked Greninja. The Speed creeps Mawile, with the rest in bulk. Overall, a neat pick in the metagame.


Melmetal-Gmax @ Expert Belt
Ability: Iron Fist
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Def
Adamant Nature
- Double Iron Bash
- Ice Punch
- Thunder Punch
- Body Press


Melmetal is great on Trick Room. Chaos Knight gave me a different set on PS! but I wanted to tweak it a bit. It had Life Orb and Superpower. I took issue with LO recoil and Superpower’s Attack drops causing me to lose momentum, so I changed it to Expert Belt with Body Press. So now its basically SubPunch Mawile with DIB and no Sub that just....hits hard. The only counter I can think of are the Rotoms, who manage a weaker Body Press. Also, this thing’s physical bulk is stupid, like it shrugs off Barra’s CCs and can even take an Adamant Lando EQ if need be.

Sets

Dugtrio @ Focus Sash
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
IVs: 28 HP
- Earthquake
- Reversal
- Toxic
- Pursuit

Sableye-Mega (F) @ Sablenite
Ability: Prankster
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 SpD
Careful Nature
- Protect
- Will-O-Wisp
- Recover
- Knock Off

Shedinja @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Wonder Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Will-O-Wisp
- X-Scissor
- Shadow Sneak
- Protect

Stall is not the best right now, but it will really get going once Dynamax is banned. These three mons form the Wonder Trio, which aims to perfectly wall and trap most of the metagame. The last three slots will most likely be Chansey, an Unaware (Pyukumuku is what I’m using to check G-Darm) and one of Mantine/Tangrowth/Skarmory. It’s also noteworthy that Shedinja is now much stronger with Heavy Duty Boots, which means Defog is no longer 100% necessary alongside it (since Knock Off murders it anyway).

Sets

Kyurem @ Metronome / Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Pressure
EVs: 56 HP / 224 SpA / 228 Spe
IVs: 0 Atk
- Substitute
- Freeze-Dry
- Earth Power
- Roost

Dracovish @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Crunch
- Outrage
- Psychic Fangs

This core is pretty cool. The idea is that all these Water Absorb users really annoy Dracovish and cause it to use its 90 Attack, made even more mediocre by the lack of a Choice Band. Kyurem and its Freeze-Dry attempts to fix this issue, because all of the Water Absorb/Storm Drain users are weak to Freeze-Dry bar Volcanion. Both are really annoying for balance to face, but struggle against more offensive teams, so Pokemon with great offense match-ups like Protect Mega Diancie and Dual Priority Mega Medicham, etc. do great.[/HIDE]

 

[Cabneet]

If you're playing stall, rocks should never get up; if they do, it's probably because you don't have hazard control for the rocker your opponent has. That means they are either using a niche/uncommon rocker, or your team is not well prepared. Anyway, point is that Pyukumuku almost always avoids the 2HKO with no hazards on the field.

Quag should not be used as a water resist anyway, because it literally isn't one. Even if you're using Pyukumuku, you're free to use another water resist. Mantine is cool, which serves as a Heatran check too. Tangrowth is a good anti-breaker, checking stuff like Bulu, Zygarde, and Kartana. For what it's worth, Appletun can avoid the 2HKO from banded fishious rend in the rain. Alomomola walls without rain (or rain without band), and it can even knock off choice band.

Anyway, I agree that Darmanitan-G is problematic for the reasons you've provided... but I just want to point out that you aren't forced to choose between having a Dracovish check and a Darm check.

"If you're playing stall, rocks should never go up"
This is one hell of a massive oversimplification.
And either way, pyuku doesnt ALWAYS avoid the 2hko even without rocks, and even then it being a 2hko with less than 10% chip is obscene.
Also notice that every single one of those mons you listed barring alomomola (who gets pivoted on like a chump) leaves you more vulnerable to darm. Hmm.

 

[sdrumapapere]

I was playing to vote for suspect, but a NatDex beta ladder disappeared. what do I do?

The ladder is there again out of beta.

However, the game doesn't allow mons that are not from the Gen8 games, going against what it's said in the metagame description.
Now it's just "Gen 8 OU after the equivalent of pokebank will get released", aka useless cut-out dex OU...

edit: it got fixed, thanks

 

[The Amazonian Rainforest]

(Resubmitting cause I'm on mobile and I fucked it up)

How about FWG cores? I feel like it got a heavy nerf this gen; Dracovish crippled the defensive integrity of FWG cores as pex and ferro can no longer cut it as mixed walls, and mega venu cant be viably used as a mega. Theres still no good defensive fire types besides heatran and even then he lacks recovery. Grass got Appletun but hes really really niche. It doesn't help that most of the water absorb users have glaring flaws

 

[658Greninja]

(Resubmitting cause I'm on mobile and I fucked it up)

How about FWG cores? I feel like it got a heavy nerf this gen; Dracovish crippled the defensive integrity of FWG cores as pex and ferro can no longer cut it as mixed walls, and mega venu cant be viably used as a mega. Theres still no good defensive fire types besides heatran and even then he lacks recovery. Grass got Appletun but hes really really niche. It doesn't help that most of the water absorb users have glaring flaws

I kinda disagree. While Dracovish does hinder alot of teambuilding, Mega-Bro is the only non water absorb/storm drain mon that can take two Fisheous Rends. Gastrodon and Seismitoed are already solid choices as water immunities. Victini is a fantastic Darm check and provides momentum for the core, there is also Tran ofc. Grass always has solid choices like Ferro Tang, Bulu, and Amoonguss. FWG cores are still as strong as they were in USUM.

 

[UltraxBlade]

(Resubmitting cause I'm on mobile and I fucked it up)

How about FWG cores? I feel like it got a heavy nerf this gen; Dracovish crippled the defensive integrity of FWG cores as pex and ferro can no longer cut it as mixed walls, and mega venu cant be viably used as a mega. Theres still no good defensive fire types besides heatran and even then he lacks recovery. Grass got Appletun but hes really really niche. It doesn't help that most of the water absorb users have glaring flaws

I disagree on Mega Venusaur being unviable. I’ve been using it and have found it quite effective. It may not be the best mega around (looking at you, Metagross), but it’s still quite strong, and can be hard to break for a lot of teams without the right counters. Good bulk, not being weak to fire and ice, immunity to toxic and seeds, and its good recovery (between synthesis, seeds, and giga drain Mega Venusaur can be very hard to take down) are all good points for Venusaur. This gen also gave it access to Earth Power as a new coverage move, which is a solid option. It’ll also get better after Dynamax is banned, as the teams it fits on are generally not the hyper-offensive teams that the dynamax meta supports.

 

[KirbCena]

One other to add:
Dracovish Suspect

I feel like suspecting Fishious Rend rather than Vish itself might be a bit more reasonable as it's the sole reason Vish is even able to terrorize bulkier teams, as its mediocre stats and lack of longevity prevent it from blasting teams apart otherwise, similar to how instead of banning Dugtrio and Gothitelle last gen, we simply banned Arena Trap and Shadow Tag since they were the main reasons why Duggy and Goth were difficult to deal with.

 

[The Amazonian Rainforest]

Water
(Shell Smash) (Mixed Wall) (Physically Defensive) (Physically Defensive, Hex) (Lead, Swift Swim) (Defog, Waterium Z) (dragon dance, Flyinium Z) (Physically defensive, rest talk) (Physically defensive) (Physically defensive) (band, scarf) (unaware, soak stallbreaker) (offensive defog) (electrium z, pivot) (specs, physically offensive, specially offensive, lead, scarf) (wish) (band, assault vest, belly drum) (Defog lol) (swift swim) (band) (unaware)
Fire
(specially defensive, Grassium Z, trapper) (defensive) (rest talk, assault vest, subcoil, band) (assault vest, band, figy berry) (offensive dance, bulky dance, physically defensive) (offensive pivot) (scarf, stored power, band) (defensive) (pivot)
Grass
(growth, specs) (defensive) (Assault vest, physically defensive) (spikes) (Physically defensive) (band, swords dance, bulk up, physically defensive) (Physically defensive)

Yeah no FWG isnt as powerful as it was in USUM since two cornerstones, Toxapex and Ferrothorn, are finding it increasingly difficult to avoid 2hkos without sacrificing special bulk. Heatran lacks any form of recovery, a weakness that is more apparent in this meta when the constant barrage of leech seed, u-turns and volt switch will add up. Mega Venu simply cannot live in this meta where Mega Metagross exists. Mega Metagross invalidates Venusaur as a wall, as a Pokemon, and as a father. If you arent running water absorb or dumb shit like jellicent or milotic you're at a severe disadvantage against Draco.

Oh and I simply dont get why people are suddenly pretending like Seismitoad is suddenly this super viable meta bastion of survivability. Hes not lol. Like hes good but the reasons he is meta is entirely external - if you look at his kit he has

• Mediocre, poorly focused stats
• No recovery
• Low to zilch offense options partially due to a lack of power
• Bad

Oh yeah i get it "role compression" but lets be real: if seismitoad didn't get stealth rock no one would ever use him ever except in niche situations. Hes only useful in SS because there are no other options, and hes only useful here because hes immune to fishious rend and you can slap sr on him and say "yeah my team has all bases covered bend over"

Same thing with Conkeldurr. You back stabbing two faced monsters. Look at his USUM dex analysis. Its not even an analysis - it's three shitty paragraphs simply railing on the poor man. Oh but then on the SS dex you're all like "yeah conk is my boy hes super cool hes a premiere wallbreaker" well you know what? Fuck you if you cant handle Conkeldurr at his worse you dont deserve him at his best.

Where was i going with this? Right:

• Fishious Rend coupled with a lack of existent counters warps the viability of FWG's defensive consistency.
• Mega Venusaur, usually the best mega evo on FWG, is easily taken out by Mega Metagross who is a staple on most teams right now. Also, the prevalence of Koko + Lucha is troubling as Lucha breaks through the core quite easily.
• Another generation, still, a lack of a truly viable defensive fire type. Heatran's lack of recovery hurts his staying power more than ever. Heavy Duty Boots is nice but only really benefits Rotom-Heat and Moltres, who no one really uses.
• Darmanitan-Galar is a massive threat to FWG, fucking over the F and G by default and able to deal high damage to the W with EQ or Max Quake.
• FWG's counterplay against dual screens hyper offense (thanks N_Mareanie ) equates to Toxapex praying not to be stunned or critted by a +2 Dark Pulse from Mega Blastoise. But what about Shift Gear Magearna? Nasty Plot Hydreigon? SubDD Zygarde? ClangClang Kommo-O? Band Dracovish? Oh my.
• The new generation, as expected, has brought in a bunch of bullshit. Centiskorch? Coalossal? Appletun? Drednaw? That cotton motherfucker? They were clearly designed to only coexist with a certain group of Pokemon and as a direct result most of them range from completely useless to novelty (but usually completely useless).

I'm not saying FWG is currently bad by any means and people still use it, and I could see it improving vastly when Dynamax, Mega Meta, and Darm are banned, but yeah, it got really shafted this gen.

 

[LORD SAGIS]

I feel like suspecting Fishious Rend rather than Vish itself might be a bit more reasonable as it's the sole reason Vish is even able to terrorize bulkier teams, as its mediocre stats and lack of longevity prevent it from blasting teams apart otherwise, similar to how instead of banning Dugtrio and Gothitelle last gen, we simply banned Arena Trap and Shadow Tag since they were the main reasons why Duggy and Goth were difficult to deal with.

While this does sound like a nice idea on paper. Fishious Rend is not a exclusive move to Dracovish. Arctovish is another mon that gets this move and it is far from broken. Dracovish's higher speed and way better typing is what makes its so good with this one move. Because of this, I view Dracovish as the problem. We only ban moves when every mon with it is broken.

Also since theres already a suspect test going on, I think we should calm down on the ban posts in my opinion.

 

[Solaros & Lunaris]

Posting again because I need to grab these likes in order to become a successful Smogon user


Aegislash @ Choice Specs
Ability: Stance Change
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Mild Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Flash Cannon
- Steel Beam
- Close Combat

Specs Aegi is a pretty funny wallbreaker ported from Regular OU that tldr chunks shit that SubToxic takes time to kill. The sheer power of Steel Beam 2hkos fully invested Mandi it’s hilarious. 180 Spe hits 201s aka Max Speed Adamant Mmaw creepers. I put this thing through a damage calc and in theory it 2hkos the entire meta bar Gastrodon and Celesteela (and Chansey has a 5.9% chance to be 2hkoed). In addition, it can still be a backup check to Lele which is always nice. Idk how to use this monstrosity’s power though so go experiment!


Zapdos @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Static
EVs: 248 HP / 188 Def / 72 Spe
Bold Nature
- Discharge
- Roost
- Heat Wave
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Zapdos is, in my opinion, fantastic right now. While it doesn’t appreciate Dracovish and G-Darmanitan in the tier, nor the competition of Corviknight, it carries a very unique set of traits that are rather rare. To start, it walls non-Ice Punch Metagross, while Corviknight falls to standard coverage (Mash/EQ/TPunch). Second, it has a Fighting resistance, making it the best Kart check in the game outside of Breakneck Blitz or Max Strike. Third, nothing really likes paralysis in this metagame, so Dracovish doesn’t really want to risk it. Also, Zapdos slaps Corviknight to no end, and checks the slew of attackers to no end. Volcanion makes a fantastic partner, as it abuses Dracovish and Darm, doubles down on Pex abuse and can Defog in case Zap’s HDB gets removed. In return, Zapdos is great at taking on faster mons that scare Volcanion. Really good mon overall and I hope to see it more.


Tangrowth @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Knock Off
- Sleep Powder

Just gonna leave the one true Band Dracovish counter in the game here, you’re welcome


Rillaboom @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Grassy Surge
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Wood Hammer
- Knock Off
- U-turn
- Superpower

I’m also going to leave this as the best Rillaboom set once GSurge is released. I’m not going to speculate on it much though since the meta will have evolved by then but its a Scarfer that resists Fishious, outruns Scarf Vish and Megazam as well.


Venusaur @ Venusaurite
Ability: Chlorophyll
EVs: 252 HP / 240 Def / 16 Spe
Bold Nature
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
- Leech Seed / Hidden Power [Fire]
- Synthesis

This is the last Grass type I promise. Idk why people are saying this thing’s bad imo it’s pretty decent. Earth Power was practically a gift from Arceus as now Venu is a bit more inclined to deal immediate damage to Heatran. This helps immensely because Celesteela is one of Venu’s best partners and is Tran/Zone food. It also deals more damage to MMaw and Magearna. I don’t really see the merit of HP Fire anymore since several mons could deal with Sciz/Ferro anyway, but I slashed it if it’s really needed. Also, it can scout G-Darm apparently since it avoids a 2hko from Band so lol. I recommend running something that is more capable of handling Greninja with this since Venu is not a great Dark resist. AV Mag or Clef should do the trick.

Lastly, with the new happiness mechanics, Frustration is always preferable to Return. Set your MLops to 0 Happiness as well as your Dittos unless you want a 62 BP STAB attack.

 

[Guard]

Gonna dump some cores I think are really good at the moment

++

Sets

Dracovish @ Choice Band
Ability: Strong Jaw
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Fishious Rend
- Outrage
- Psychic Fangs
- Crunch

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Ability: Grassy Surge
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 160
EVs: 248 HP / 36 Atk / 144 Def / 80 SpD
Impish Nature
- Bulk Up
- Horn Leech
- Superpower
- Synthesis

Heatran @ Leftovers
Ability: Flash Fire
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 176 SpD / 80 Spe
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Lava Plume
- Earth Power
- Toxic
- Stealth Rock

BuluTran is of course a very familiar core from the gen 7 meta, notably complementing each others weaknesses perfectly in addition to Bulu providing Tran with additional recovery. This core really only has one notable weakness defensively, i.e. being prone to opposing Tran. Enter Dracovish, which not only royally abuses Heatran but also completes the Fire-Water-Grass and Dragon-Fairy-Steel core. The spreads I use are regular SpD Tran, Band Vish and Defensive Bulu (with enough SpD to avoid the 2OHKO from Ash-Gren's Hydro Pump after rocks and enough Atk to break uninvested Zyg's Sub without Grassy Terrain). That way, you can resort to BuluTran for checking an ubermajority of the metagame, with Vish checking Tran and Trick Room, improving the rain matchup and doing the wallbreaking for another team member to take advantage of. This core pairs very well with countermeasures to Offense such as Ditto and MLop, providing great checking and wallbreaking prowess.

+

Sets

Hatterene (F) @ Leftovers
Ability: Magic Bounce
EVs: 248 HP / 92 Def / 116 SpA / 52 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Psychic
- Dazzling Gleam
- Mystical Fire
*EVs are for outspeeding Pex and avoiding the 2OHKO from Defensive Lando-T

Volcarona @ Buginium Z
Ability: Flame Body
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Quiver Dance
- Fire Blast
- Bug Buzz
- Hidden Power [Ground]

The matchup moth's flagship offensive Buginium Z set faces two main problems: Pex and Rocks. This is where Hatterene comes in, being able to dent Toxapex and deter its Toxic Spikes and Rocks in general with Magic Bounce. This frees up slots on your team, since Volcarona traditionally used to be paired with a Toxapex abuser and two forms of hazard control. This core also works perfectly fine with Bulky Volcarona, in which case running HP Ground and Psyshock on Hatterene might have merits.

+

Sets

Gastrodon @ Leftovers
Ability: Storm Drain
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Scald
- Earthquake
- Toxic/Clear Smog
- Recover

Corviknight @ Leftovers
Ability: Pressure
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
- Taunt/Brave Bird
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn

These two complement each other perfectly, with Gastrodon taking on Ash-Gren, Koko and Tran while Corviknight counters most grasses. Gastrodon also deters Fishious Rend spam, so you can allow yourself some breathing room in that specific aspect of teambuilding. I definitely expect this to be a common sight in Balance.

+

Sets

Genesect @ Choice Band
Ability: Download
Shiny: Yes
Happiness: 160
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
- U-turn
- Iron Head
- Blaze Kick
- Extreme Speed

Dugtrio @ Groundium Z
Ability: Arena Trap
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Substitute
- Screech
- Sucker Punch/Stone Edge/Stealth Rock/Memento

Banded Genesect (or any variant without Thunderbolt/HP Ground) only really has two counters: Tran and Pex. This is why facing this core will give you a severe headache, since Genesect can easily U-turn on both in order to get CB/Groundium Z Dugtrio in, which takes care of both 'counters'. This frees up crucial slots on Genesect, which it can use to wall break more effectively.

+

Sets

Darmanitan-Galar @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Gorilla Tactics
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- U-turn
- Flare Blitz
- Earthquake

Tapu Koko @ Choice Specs
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Thunderbolt
- Volt Switch
- Dazzling Gleam
- Hidden Power [Ice]/U-turn

G-Darm and Tapu Koko basically provide any team with infinite momentum, due to their ability to pivot into each others checks very effectively. Then there's the fact that Darm's U-turn and Koko's Volt Switch hit quite hard, making it almost too easy to exhaust each other checks to the point where one of either Darm or Koko becomes a wincon late-game.