Announcement National Dex Suspect Test 13: Hurricane

[KoF HM04]

How exactly did it end up doing nothing?? How did the opponent get the z-move to do nothing?

Dawg idk how to explain to you what it means when something doesn’t do anything lmao this is like a kid saying “how can Santa NOT be real? Proves he’s not at the North Pole!!!” bc it’s really easy to show when something does happen and hard to show when something doesn’t happen

 

[Quagsires :D]

Dawg idk how to explain to you what it means when something doesn’t do anything lmao this is like a kid saying “how can Santa NOT be real? Proves he’s not at the North Pole!!!” bc it’s really easy to show when something does happen and hard to show when something doesn’t happen

What people are asking you is if you could describe what it did in the matches you faced it. For instance did the opponent sack their Tornadus-T in every match or did you reliably defeat it or tank hits from it in every match, give an example like "Tornadus-T used hurricane on my zapdos and it didn't ohko it so it was underwhelming" or somthing like that, simply saying "It's underwhelming because it does nothing" isn't constructive and dosent help others develop a view point on whether Tornadus-T should be unbanned or not. I'd suggest mimicking some of the other posts if your not sure where to start as they are a good base for writing up your own post. For future reference I suggest accually using the pokemon being tested on your team in at least a few games of your suspect test if you didn't so you ge a better idea of its value, the reason you find Tornadus-T underwhelming may be a direct cause of the opponent's you faced in your suspect test not utilizing it properly therefore using it yourself and attempting to exploit its offensive and defensive abilities gives you a better idea of how it can overwhelm or underwhelm the current metagame.

 

[kDCA]

I think adem responded to what issues I would have with the statements of comparing Kartana and Landorus to Torn-T perfectly, but I wanted to mention the first half of your post as I found it interesting, so I will be building off of it:

My biggest question is does it help or hinder new players to get into the meta? Sure, I would love to bring in Torn-T to "shake up" the meta, but does it hurt or help the enjoyability of it? With the set being NP + Z-Hurricane that's the main issue, it feels like the luck based item ban. With newer players, they probably won't set up a NP. Experienced players will definitely take the switch opportunity to set up the nuke.

Having a metagame that is approachable for new players is no doubt an important trait of a healthy tier, but the stance of fully prioritizing newer and less-knowledgeable players at the cost of higher-level players is not the way to achieve this. While newer players should always be accounted for, saying things such as "because they are new, they won't be running the problematic sets" is presumptive and does not foster a healthy environment to learn the tier.

It should be stated that higher-level players, much so comparatively to new players, are at the forefront of any metagame and for the most part lead metagame development. You won't be seeing a newcomers paste in the sample teams (which are designed to get players to understand the meta); you'll be seeing top players, who will most likely have teams warped in order to deal with a singular overwhelming threat, like seen in the past when such mons remained legal. In the case of Tornadus-T, you most likely won't have certain team styles such as fat on the list of samples; not because the metagame as a whole makes it unviable, but because a single pokemon makes it unviable. Denying entire playstyles in favor of allowing a mon does not make a tier more approachable, it only limits how much range and freedom a player can have when building. Metagame threats that are notably overbearing for higher-skilled players do have an impact on lower-elo players, and denying this in its entirety is a bit headlong.

This question was kind of philosophical in the sense that it was applicable to most suspects, but the concept of specifically focusing on new players in favor of having a more approachable tier causes more harm then good and conflicts with the original goal. The metagame should be approachable, but the tier should not have to suffer at the cost of this. Not to mention, in this specific case, Torn-T does not make the metagame more approachable as mentioned above.

In regards of Tornadus-T, if my mentions of it being overwhelming and denying playstyles didn't hint at it already, definitely going for a Keep Torn-T Banned here. Real shame it had to get Nasty Plot with Z and become a behemoth breaker that can invalidate archetypes with little reliable counterplay, as I would have loved to see some utility torns, but its quite evident after the run of this suspect that the metagame isnt suited for it.

 

[Steorra]

Tornadus-T's suspect test has reached a conclusion. Thanks for everyone's discussion on the matter!