Ubers National Dex Ubers Metagame Discussion

[entrocefalo]

art by Gaboswampert​

Welcome to the very first edition of National Dex Ubers! Just as the name suggests, this is to be an Ubers-based metagame in a National Dex environment; every Pokemon is available for use alongside their full movepool. Cut items, moves, and mechanics originating from generations 7 and 8 will be made available as well, with the exception of Dynamax. For information regarding any intricacies concerning National Dex mechanics, please consult this thread [Gen 8 version]. National Dex forum rules are in effect; please give them a look-over here.

Clauses & Banlist

Endless Battle Clause, HP Percentage Mod, Sleep Clause Mod, Species Clause, OHKO Clause, Evasion Items Clause, Evasion Moves Clause, Mega Rayquaza Clause

• Pokemon: Shedinja, Calyrex-Shadow, Koraidon, Miraidon, Mega Rayquaza, Xerneas
• Items: Gengarite
• Moves: Baton Pass, Assist

Council

• entrocefalo (Leader)
• Bobsican (Leader)
• Adem
• bumboclaat
• Eledyr
• Zrp200
• Sami

Watchlist:

• Pokemon: Zacian-C, Power Construct Zygarde
• Items: None.
• Moves: Last Respects
• Abilities: Shadow Tag
• Mechanics: Terastallization

Resources

Viability Rankings [with linked sample sets] - hosted by entrocefalo
Sample Teams - hosted by bumboclaat
Teambuilding Compendium - hosted by bumboclaat
Speed Tiers - hosted by Bobsican
Good Cores - hosted by NeonJolteonWasUsed

Q&A

Does this have a Discord server?
Yes, join here!

Why is Dynamax not allowed?
Besides coding limitations, implementing Dynamax doesn't adhere to National Dex's identity, additionally given its well-documented uncompetitive nature even within the identity of Uber metagames, it'd most likely be banned anyways.

Can I use Terastal, Mega Evolution, and Z-Moves on the same team?
Yes, however, any one Pokemon has access to one of these mechanics. Furthermore, Mega Evolution and Z-Moves take priority over Terastal. For example, Mewtwo holding Mewtwonite Y cannot Terastallize. Necrozma-DM holding Solgalium Z cannot Terastallize either. Pokemon that trigger Primal Reversion (Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre) can't Terastallize either.

 

[Bobsican]

I may as well comment on mons that are currently in the watchlist:


Miraidon is a quite known as a mon that can make progress way too easily, with a strong speed tier, typing, decent bulk by Ubers standards and a SpA almost rivalizing M-Rayquaza while accounting its ability (and apparently it may be getting "buffed" as is, lol) means that every team requires carrying a Ground-type and something that isn't 2HKO'd by Specs Draco Meteor or Overheat, or else they basically lose a mon everytime it comes in.

M-Ray does M-Ray things, not much to say here, it also got U-Turn this gen, rendering Choice-locked sets more viable, and Stealth Rock if you feel like wasting a move slot on a mon that appreciates running as much coverage as possible to blow holes on teams.

Zacian is one of the most infamous mons out of requiring everyone to bring at least two checks to it, but it got nerfed hard this gen (Less Atk, and Intrepid Sword only triggers once per battle), and so it's easily the most tame mon in the watchlist right now.

Other sus stuff IMO:


Everyone may have heard that Assist got banned in NDOU as a unhealthy gimmick of it + Revival Blessing was found, basically allowing to constantly revive a team to wear the opponent's down with Ditto, Rocky Helmet and sometimes PP stall, this strategy shines as it's easy to invalidate progress from the opponent, especially as the ways to break this strat are way too gimmicky (Substitute+Extreme Speed mons, Imprison+Assist), but of all the viable ones in Ubers it'd probably just be trapping, even so, I don't think it's healthy here either to dictate every team to run a Gothitelle/Dugtrio if they don't want to lose long-term, it's harder to break than Baton Pass chains TBH.


Speaking of trapping, Shadow Tag got banned from Ubers last gen, so it may be worth keeping an eye on it. It just enables too easily to break defensive cores, and thus being as uncompetitive as in lower tiers as all it requires is some luck to basically enable a win.

:Terastallizing:
Teras as a whole are a hot topic across Smogon, so I may as well just bring it up here for a bit, Teras just enable mons too much and punish well-deserved wins as they toss in even more yomi layers in a unhealthy manner to worry about (what If they Tera into a type that'd resist what otherwise is a super effective move? what if they Tera into a type that hits me SE and I otherwise win as I'd endure their attack and just KO back?), while also enabling offensive mons to just remove the little switch-ins they have left, be it by getting another STAB to nuke them with and changing their defensive profile to a far better one (case in point, ), or a super-one to overwhelm them ( quickly comes to mind as a mon that can OHKO Blissey after hazards with Tera Water Specs Water Spout, I'm aware exists, but can Tera as well and still 2HKO with Tera Water Water Spout), and so keeping an eye on it isn't a bad idea either even here.
Obviously if this goes is perfectly fine to be unbanned, and may be worth considering for an unban.

 

[Guard]

Wanted to provide a recap of the past couple of days as well as outlay currently relevant topics so that everyone is up to speed ~

Quickbans

These three ghosts were quickbanned unanimously after the first day of play, following resounding support from the playerbase. Shedinja and Calyrex-S were blatantly unhealthy and oppressive Terastal abusers; the combination of Wonder Guard and a newly acquired Ground- or Electric-typing made Shedinja a nightmare to account for in the teambuilder, necessitating the usage of Necrozma-DM and Ultra Necrozma or otherwise very suboptimal Pokemon and moves to deal with it. Similarly, Calyrex-S was a nigh uncounterable presence that could now beat Dark- and Normal-types by Terastalizing either offensively (Fairy, Fighting) or defensively (Fairy, Dark). In combination with its unmatched Speed tier and a base Ghost-typing (granting Extreme Speed immunity) invalidating a large swath of offensive counterplay, there was no sufficiently reliable option to keep it in check. Both of these bans will be re-evaluated in the event that Terastal is banned in the future, but for now, these Pokemon cannot be a part of a healthy metagame. Last, but certainly not least, Mega Gengar's access to Encore finally caught up to it in a Dynamax-less metagame. With no more readily available option to break the Encore-lock, the mere presence of Encore Mega Gengar forces unhealthy 50-50's almost every single turn in a way that is low risk for the player wielding it, and potentially game-ending for the opponent. Mega Gengar definitely has no place in this metagame as a result.

Baton Pass
Baton Pass was unbanned initially in order to evaluate its effect in an Ubers metagame that is unlike any previous iteration. However, it quickly proved to be an unnecessarily unhealthy addition in a fashion similar to previous generations and was promptly quickbanned as a result.

Current Slate

Following the aforementioned quickbans, Miraidon and Mega Rayquaza have emerged as the most controversial Pokemon in the current metagame. Sets such as Choice Specs and Calm Mind Dragonium Z Miradon sport no reliable counterplay, period. If you're not a Ground-type, you are not surviving +1 Electro Drift with the Electric Terrain + Hadron Engine boost. Conversely, the metagame's Ground-types are taken down by +1 Draco Meteor / Devastating Drake in one fell blow. To add insult to injury, uninvested Arceus-Ground is incapable of KO'ing even an unboosted Miraidon with Judgment; therefore, it doesn't even suffice as a stand-alone check. In general, it is a good idea to have both a Ground- and Fairy-type in your team to hinder Miraidon's progress-making. However, apart from Arceus-Ground, Primal Groudon, and Arceus-Fairy, these are in very short supply. As a result, checking Miraidon is mostly being done through the usage of Terastal; Pokemon like Tera Fairy / Steel Primal Groudon, as well as Tera Ground Earthquake Necrozma-DM and Ho-Oh are capable of tricking Miraidon into the wrong STAB move and KO'ing it with their attacks. Speed control options such as Zacian-C and Choice Scarf Koraidon are some other ways to go about checking Miraidon. Evidently, the list is remarkably small, which has been a cause for concern amongst the playerbase.

Mega Rayquaza is less oppressive than Miraidon due to its weakness to Stealth Rock and the fact that it shares checks with other metagame staples such as Koraidon and Zacian-C (i.e. Arceus-Fairy and Necrozma-DM). Moreover, it has to be warier of Primal Groudon this generation, due to the latter's newfound access to Will-O-Wisp. However, at the end of the day, Mega Rayquaza only has soft-checks; none of them can stand up to a boosted Mega Rayquaza if they have been chipped the slightest amount. Moreover, due to Species Clause and, by proxy, the presence of one Arceus form per team at most, Mega Rayquaza has way less trouble powering through defensive cores here than in AG. Combined with its access to Dragon Dance and Extreme Speed, this makes for a Pokemon that can get out of hand quickly with minimal support required.

We will be holding a vote over both of these Pokemon after a little more time is given to evaluate the full extent of their effects on the metagame. Simultaneously, we will also be keeping a close eye on Assist + Revival Blessing; if deemed necessary, this will be added to the voting slate. Some other plans for the near future are a tiering survey to gauge public opinion and a Kickoff tournament after these elements have been addressed. For now, enjoy the metagame, and be sure to leave your thoughts here!

 

[dtc09]

Mewtwo-Mega-Y @ Mewtwonite Y
Ability: Insomnia
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Nasty Plot
- Psystrike
- Fire Blast
- Ice Beam / Focus Blast

this guy might be finally getting its chance now that caly's gone; great breaker that loves caly and dynamax being gone, plus it outruns the base 135s. suffers competition with ray for the mega slot now but when ray gets banned this thing will be p good. sucks for it that zac might not be bannable and wants to always run jolly for the box legends (mmy needs quite some def investment to tank a blade from full) but still i feel like it can be a decently threatening breaker after such a tough 8th gen

 

[InsaneGlitch]

Hello everyone, with the first week coming to a close, we are now going to look at a few potential issues over the weekend. With this, we would like your feedback on the matters. Please fill out this survey: https://forms.gle/yFvGz8s7fX5iYkMa8 It will be available until Monday @ 00:00 EST.

After, if you would like to leave comments and concerns here on the discussion thread that would be greatly appreciated! For the time being, just lead your survey feedback comment with: Survey 1

 

[Guard]

Survey Results

Hi everyone, here's the outcome of the survey. Thank you to everyone who filled it in! We had a total of 20 respondents, which we're very happy about considering the fact that we're still at a very early stage.

• Average: 7.25; a pretty positive outcome! We are glad to see you're enjoying the metagame.

• Average: 5.6; opinions are a lot more divided and generally less positive on this question. We can definitely find ourselves in this result as well, and will discuss how to best improve the competitiveness of the metagame.

Moving on to the more specific questions -->

On the last question, the general consensus on the premier presence we ought to keep an eye on besides the abovementioned was Shadow Tag. Other things that were mentioned were Moody, Ultra Necrozma, Tera Primal Groudon & Kyogre, and Terastal Arceus.

~ Thanks again for your responses. We will be holding internal discussions on these results and the best way to move forward. Be on the lookout for tiering action soon!

 

[Guard]

Miraidon, Mega Rayquaza, and Assist are quickbanned from National Dex Ubers! For a reasoning behind the decision on Miraidon and Mega Rayquaza, please consult the latter half of this post. Due to the more varied opinions on Mega Rayquaza, it will be granted a suspect test down the line when we have a ladder at our disposal (if the updated identity of National Dex formats in general continue to allow Mega Rayquaza in the first place).

Assist was quickbanned in order to bring a halt to Revival Blessing + Assist, which was ultimately deemed to be a cheap and unhealthy part of the metagame by the council as well as an overmajority of the playerbase. We believe banning Assist is the cleanest solution, as this avoids any collateral damage due to Assist being a completely unviable move otherwise; the same cannot be claimed for Revival Blessing at this stage of metagame development yet.

In case of any questions, feel free to send me a DM

 

[Zrp200]

Now that the "big bads" are banned, I'm sure everyone's wondering the same thing: What's the New Big Bad?
Have no fear, I will illuminate you all!

It is Arceus!

Behold the latest product of Game Freak's buffs!

Arceus @ Leftovers
Ability: Multitype
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 132 HP / 252 Atk / 124 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Extreme Speed
- Shadow Force / Earthquake
- Taunt

In Gen 9, Arceus gained Taunt and Dragon Dance. Why? I don't know! What I do know is that there is no consistent counterplay to this strategy (outside of using multiple Unaware Pokemon).

Now, shall we ask ourselves, how do we stop such a monster?

The answer: absolutely not. This monster defeats all. It cannot be stopped. It cannot be whirlwinded. It cannot be ditto'd. It cannot be revenge killed by scarfers of any sort. It cannot be killed by priority. It cannot even be stopped by swapping between a Normal Type and a Ghost type!

It sets up in the face of all who attempt to check it. All it needs is one dragon dance to clean with Shadow Force. When you bring in your priority mon, lo and behold: it is now Ghost type and immune to your silly Extreme Speed. When you bring in your Ditto, it will simply Extreme Speed your Ditto. When you attempt to phase it or set up alongside it, in comes Taunt and more Dragon Dances.

If (when) it gets two dragon dances, it can no longer be stopped defensively. All but max defense Necrozma-Dusk-Mane are OHKOed by +2 STAB Shadow Force. Koraidon is ohkoed by the same Shadow Force, and outsped at +2 even if it is running Scarf.

Earthquake trades the power of Shadow Force for more sweeping consistency, hitting everything that resists Extreme Speed at least neutrally (outside of the rare Giratina-O). The Ghost Typing alone is enough to flip the game into Arceus's favor.

Arceus is coming for you. And when you least expect it.... it will Terastalyze into Ghost and run away with the game! Beware!

 

[Bobsican]

It cannot even be stopped by swapping between a Normal Type and a Ghost type!

+ any Normal-type says hi, although ESpeed + Shadow Claw sets are , a suspect may be considerable if Teras don't go first, but I'd like if each Arceus forme was tiered individually, not only Arceus formes are like the of Ubers in tying together all sorts of teams, there's precedent on that with and it'd be best for consistency too.

That being said, I'm going to talk over this hidden gem (heh)


With M-Ray and M-Gengar being gone, there's quite more variety for the mega slot, however, as most megas aren't even Ubers, that means that options as usually niche as best as M-Diancie can be legitimately considered.

With the new addition in this gen of Spikes, M-Diancie can perform solid role compression as a stallbreaking hazard setter that forces out hazard control mons like M-Sableye, Ho-Oh and Giratina-O after some chip, Magic Bounce is the cherry on top as it also grants anti-lead utility to make suicide leads like Glimmora, Deoxys-Speed and Smeargle backfire for the most part, and given that and generally don't run Seismic Toss out of it basically sucking in Ubers, M-Diancie can easily come into them and set Spikes as well.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

Now that Miraidon and MRay are banned, we can wait for a good while to let the meta settle. However, for future suspect test, there are two possible candidates who should be on the radar: Arceus-Normal and Tera.

I personally find Ekiller a slightly bigger issue than Tera atm, as Arceus-Normal is the worst abuser of Tera (slightly ahead of other problematic Arceus forms, like Arceus-Ghost). After the meta cools down for a bit, it will become more apparent if Tera or Arceus-Normal should be prioritized for suspect test.

And I also agree that each Arceus form should be treated individually for evaluation.

 

[dtc09]

about normalceus, needing lo+tera to OHKO physdef NDM means it has to either give up longevity or fail to get past it:

+1 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Force vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 279-328 (70.1 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 356-420 (85.9 - 101.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed with helmet chip)

not to mention how chipping it down with another mon doesn't even work because shadow force gives one free turn of recovery.

after tera marsh is also a good revenge killer:

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 426-504 (102.8 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

it has to mindgame against pdon whether to taunt the wisp or attack to not get 3HKOed by blades/heat crash. and dtail bulky zygarde eats it for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

overall its biggest flaw is its lack of power; struggling to hurt fatter mons and taking your tera slot. it is a good cleaner but miraidon-levels of broken? not even close. anyway, goofy ahh alien moment:



Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam
- Superpower

does anything switch into this anyway, tera ghost lets you 2HKO to specially fattest necrozma/msab with shadow ball while letting you avoid espeed. hell of a lethal mindgame with pursuit marsh and no defensive utility but nobody's perfect. also unmatchable speed tier now that the horse is gone.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

about normalceus, needing lo+tera to OHKO physdef NDM means it has to either give up longevity or fail to get past it:

+1 252+ Atk Arceus Shadow Force vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Prism Armor Necrozma-Dusk-Mane: 279-328 (70.1 - 82.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 356-420 (85.9 - 101.4%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (guaranteed with helmet chip)

not to mention how chipping it down with another mon doesn't even work because shadow force gives one free turn of recovery.

after tera marsh is also a good revenge killer:

252 Atk Life Orb Technician Marshadow Shadow Sneak vs. 132 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 426-504 (102.8 - 121.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO

it has to mindgame against pdon whether to taunt the wisp or attack to not get 3HKOed by blades/heat crash. and dtail bulky zygarde eats it for breakfast, lunch and dinner.

overall its biggest flaw is its lack of power; struggling to hurt fatter mons and taking your tera slot. it is a good cleaner but miraidon-levels of broken? not even close. anyway, goofy ahh alien moment:



Deoxys-Attack @ Life Orb
Ability: Pressure
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
- Shadow Ball
- Psycho Boost
- Ice Beam
- Superpower

does anything switch into this anyway, tera ghost lets you 2HKO to specially fattest necrozma/msab with shadow ball while letting you avoid espeed. hell of a lethal mindgame with pursuit marsh and no defensive utility but nobody's perfect. also unmatchable speed tier now that the horse is gone.

Your calcs are sadly inaccurate. Arceus not only doesn't care about Knock Off from NDM, it sets up on its face by spamming Dragon Dance several times and NDM can't do anything about it. Rocky Helmet chip is irrelevant since NDM is a setup fodder.

0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ghost Tera Type Arceus: 178-210 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

And that's Ghost Tera. If Arceus doesn't tera (it only uses Tera against other Arceus forms, not in front of NDM)

0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 89-105 (23.3 - 27.5%) -- 72.1% chance to 4HKO

And if Tera Ghost Arceus doesn't have item due to Knock Off

0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ghost Tera Type Arceus: 120-142 (31.4 - 37.2%) -- 81.1% chance to 3HKO

Meanwhile Arceus has Recover/Taunt, so it can either stop NDM from using status/hazard, or recover the chip damages received from Knock Off or any other move

 

[sophie lll]

why ban the Miraidon?
I think its not very strong

 

[Joseph Gomes]

why ban the Miraidon?
I think its not very strong

It hits harder than M-Rayquaza, don't get too caught up by base stats

 

[dtc09]

Your calcs are sadly inaccurate. Arceus not only doesn't care about Knock Off from NDM, it sets up on its face by spamming Dragon Dance several times and NDM can't do anything about it. Rocky Helmet chip is irrelevant since NDM is a setup fodder.

0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ghost Tera Type Arceus: 178-210 (46.7 - 55.1%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO

And that's Ghost Tera. If Arceus doesn't tera (it only uses Tera against other Arceus forms, not in front of NDM)

0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Arceus: 89-105 (23.3 - 27.5%) -- 72.1% chance to 4HKO

And if Tera Ghost Arceus doesn't have item due to Knock Off

0 Atk Necrozma-Dusk-Mane Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Ghost Tera Type Arceus: 120-142 (31.4 - 37.2%) -- 81.1% chance to 3HKO

Meanwhile Arceus has Recover/Taunt, so it can either stop NDM from using status/hazard, or recover the chip damages received from Knock Off or any other move

i legit don't know where i got the ndm calc from because i calced it again and got your result too lol. anyway, even if ndm isn't a check dtail pdon/zygarde definitely are; while pdon can also 3HKO it if not attack invested, while attacking it might get you wisped. and pursuit marsh is also a big mindgame if you've already tera'd, and the marsh player isn't even risking the mon as shadow force is a 2-turn move. bulky foul play yvel can also annoy it as it can now run physdef again now that the horse is gone, same with darkceus, which also gets wisp/twave to potentially punish it for not taunting.

my point is, normalceus is very checkable, and see how i didn't mention defensively teraing is here at all. it is a good mon, great cleaner and the mons i mentioned either lack reliable recovery (pdon, zyg) or can be beaten on a 1v1 (the darks), but they still have a pretty positive matchup because normal arc hasn't that much instant power and it needs multiple ddances (plus bulky zyg runs rest). so good, but not broken (oh yeah and ndm can also beat arc 1v1 if it comes in on a ddance/taunt by spamming sunsteel and 3HKOing along with helmet chip).

 

[InsaneGlitch]

On the subject matter of Arceus, I do not believe we have sufficient evidence to support a Suspect Test as of yet, however, that is not to say that this can change down the road. Listing of the current notable options it has in its arsenal:

Notable Options

Setup:
Bulk Up
Dragon Dance
Swords Dance

STAB:
Body Slam
Extremespeed
Frustration
Facade
Tera Blast

Non-STAB:
Body Press
Brick Break
Earthquake
Iron Head
Rock Slide
Shadow Claw
Stone Edge

Utility:
Recover
Refresh
Substitute
Taunt

Items:
Life Orb
Leftovers
Chople Berry

Terastilizations:
Normal
Ghost

Looking at these options, yes, I can see that it does indeed have a rather large variety of tools and potential sets. Also, there are probably some that I haven't listed here. Over the course of the next few weeks, with the recent bans, we will see how the meta shifts and unfolds as it plays itself out. We will keep Arceus under a watchful eye, however, as mentioned above, I don't personally see the need for a Suspect Test of it over Terastilization.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

On the subject matter of Arceus, I do not believe we have sufficient evidence to support a Suspect Test as of yet, however, that is not to say that this can change down the road. Listing of the current notable options it has in its arsenal:

Notable Options

Setup:
Bulk Up
Dragon Dance
Swords Dance

STAB:
Body Slam
Extremespeed
Frustration
Facade
Tera Blast

Non-STAB:
Brick Break
Earthquake
Iron Head
Rock Slide
Shadow Claw
Stone Edge

Utility:
Recover
Refresh
Substitute
Taunt

Items:
Life Orb
Leftovers
Chople Berry

Terastilizations:
Normal
Ghost

Looking at these options, yes, I can see that it does indeed have a rather large variety of tools and potential sets. Also, there are probably some that I haven't listed here. Over the course of the next few weeks, with the recent bans, we will see how the meta shifts and unfolds as it plays itself out. We will keep Arceus under a watchful eye, however, as mentioned above, I don't personally see the need for a Suspect Test of it over Terastilization.

You should add Body Press to list of non STAB moves.

 

[Mythra]

Do we have datamined/hacked confirmation on how the creation trio's new orbs work? Namely:

• Can they be removed without Dialga/Palkia/Giratina reverting from their Origin Formes?
• Do they still provide the STAB bonuses that their previous versions did?

 

[Guard]

Two quick updates ~

• National Dex Ubers is now a challengeable format!
• Due to the recent discovery of the Griseous Core, Lustrous Globe, and Adamant Crystal items being available in-game, the origin formes of Giratina, Dialga, and Palkia are now legal!

 

[Willro101]

I have a few ideas on who to ban from Nat Dex Ubers. not because they would fit in NDAG, Because they wouldn’t fit in Nat Dex Ubers

Primal Groudon
This Behemoth of a bulky tank and powerhouse all in one needs a ban. It will already be a superpower in NDAG and has a BST of 770. And it isn’t even a mega evolution. so you can have a Mega Mewtwo on your team with Primal Groudon.

Arceus of All Sorts
Arceus is literally god. 720 BST, Stab Extreme speed with 120 Atk, cover moves like Judgement and shadow claw and many others.

Zacian-Crowned
150 Atk, 1.5x on switch in, 100 base power Behemoth Blade. i don’t need to say much. Although it got nerfed it still needs destroyed. It has fantastic coverage moves and Great typing. Its very scary.

Necrozma-Ultra
it will do too much damage to anything in Ubers.

Some of my other Please Bans Contain: Deoxys-Attack, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Mega-Mewtwo-Y, Sleep, Evasion, and Shadow tag. Thank you for your time.

 

[Joseph Gomes]

I don't see any of the above banworthy

 

[InsaneGlitch]

I have a few ideas on who to ban from Nat Dex Ubers. not because they would fit in NDAG, Because they wouldn’t fit in Nat Dex Ubers

Primal Groudon
This Behemoth of a bulky tank and powerhouse all in one needs a ban. It will already be a superpower in NDAG and has a BST of 770. And it isn’t even a mega evolution. so you can have a Mega Alakazam on your team with Primal Groudon.

Arceus of All Sorts
Arceus is literally god. 720 BST, Stab Extreme speed with 120 Atk, cover moves like Judgement and shadow claw and many others.

Zacian-Crowned
150 Atk, 1.5x on switch in, 100 base power Behemoth Blade. i don’t need to say much. Although it got nerfed it still needs destroyed. It has fantastic coverage moves and Great typing. Its very scary.

Necrozma-Ultra
it will do too much damage to anything in Ubers.

Some of my other Please Bans Contain: Deoxys-Attack, Necrozma-Dusk-Mane, Necrozma-Dawn-Wings, Mega-Mewtwo-Y, Sleep, Evasion, and Shadow tag. Thank you for your time.

I'm going to assume this is satire as some of what you mentioned is already banned.

 

[The one and only buck]

Feathered God (Koraidon) @ Life Orb
Ability: Orichalcum Pulse
Tera Type: Fire
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Swords Dance
- Flare Blitz
- Outrage
- Close Combat

A set I ought to have brought against Guard in G3 (unfortunately there wasn’t one). But it did EXTREMELY well all of the tests. When koraidon manages to come out and sets up, it can ohko anything, whether resisted or not. Choice lock are good but the downside can be detrimental while this provides imminent wall breaking.
Some calcs to prove my point:
+2 252 Atk Life Orb Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 364-429 (75.2 - 88.6%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO (reduced etern’s hp to 88%, the calc wouldn’t include rock damage)

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Xerneas: 364-429 (79.8 - 94%) -- 43.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Orichalcum Pulse Tera Fire Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Eternatus in Sun: 546-643 (112.8 - 132.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Orichalcum Pulse Tera Fire Koraidon Flare Blitz vs. 248 HP / 208+ Def Ho-Oh in Sun: 420-495 (101.2 - 119.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Koraidon Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tera Fairy Kyogre-Primal: 286-337 (83.8 - 98.8%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

+2 252 Atk Life Orb Orichalcum Pulse Koraidon Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Groudon-Primal: 359-422 (88.8 - 104.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

 

[Guard]

Enough time has passed since the latest bans and I feel that we're close to a more stable metagame, so I wanted to give my top 5 best Pokemon in the metagame right now ~

#1
Big bad Primal Groudon ranks at #1, and it shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone that plays this metagame. This Pokemon got enormous buffs this generation, both defensively in the form of Spikes / Will-O-Wisp and offensively in the form of Terastal and the fact that Arceus cannot outstall Precipice Blades with Recover anymore. From defensive Spikes / Stealth Rock + Toxic to mixed Tera Fire Fire Blast / Eruption to the countless Swords Dance variations, this Pokemon can truly do it all and you can never go wrong with one in your team.

#2
Arceus-Ground comes in second, being the clear-cut best Arceus form in this metagame. Traditional sets such as Swords Dance, Calm Mind, and bulky Stealth Rock / Defog continue to define large portions of the tier. However, Arceus-Ground received three meta-defining new toys that truly cement it as one of the top dogs. Dragon Dance allows Arceus to invalidate revenge-killing attempts from Marshadow and Zacian-C completely, whilst retaining crazy offensive power with Tectonic Rage / Tera Ground. Power Gem invalidates Ho-Oh, priorly known as the single best check to specially offensive Arceus-Ground sets. And last but not least, Taunt shuts down stray Toxic and Whirlwind, fundamentally redefining counterplay for both offensive and bulky sets.

#3
Necrozma-DM is back in style, being the stellar glue it has always been. Whilst not as omnipresent anymore due to the Zacian-C nerf, its utility remains nigh-unmatched as a Stealth Rock setter, status spreading machine, and Xerneas / Zacian-C check. Now that it can invest in SpD again, Dragon Dance sets become all the scarier, using the likes of bulky Arceus-Ground and Arceus-Dark as setup fodder, especially when combined with a favourable Tera type such as Grass or Fairy. Solgalium Z sets add to its repertoire as well, trading the ability to Terastallize for a one-time nuke that severely dents the likes of Arceus-Dark, Primal Kyogre, and Arceus-Ground.

#4
Ho-Oh clocks in at number 4, courtesy of gluing together a very large amount of teams at the moment. Ho-Oh basically checks half the tier, including titans such as Koraidon, most Necrozma-DM, non-Rock move Primal Groudon, Zacian-C, Xerneas, Dragon Dance Arceus, and Eternatus. This list expands when you factor in Tera types; e.g. Tera Grass Ho-Oh is a solid check to the likes of Primal Kyogre and Zygarde-C, while keeping Xerneas and Zacian-C on their toes due to now being resistant to Electric. Ho-Oh frees up the Defog slot from Arceus formes as well, allowing the latter to run far more dangerous Taunt or setup sets.

#5
Choice Scarf Koraidon is the best revenge killer in the metagame, limiting the likes of Zacian-C, the Necrozma formes, Xerneas, and Dragon Dance Arceus formes and Mega Salamence. After all, no other revenge killer is capable of outspeeding +1 Arceus and Mega Salamence, whilst being capable of retaining momentum with U-turn and maintaining a good amount of damage output (especially with Tera Fighting). However, Koraidon is not just a revenge killer; sets such as Swords Dance Tera Fire and Swords Dance Z-Dragon are insanely difficult to check properly, as demonstrated in the calcs posted above this post. This makes Koraidon an elite wallbreaker on top.

Numbers 6-10 are more subjective in my opinion. Mine at the moment would probably be something like #6. Eternatus - #7. Arceus - #8. Xerneas - #9. Zygarde-C - #10. Zacian-C. Besides these, stuff like Mega Salamence, Ultra Necrozma, Arceus-Fairy, and Yveltal also hold top spots in my eyes. Overall, I really enjoy building / playing in the current metagame, and while I do think there are a few problematic aspects still (Taunt Arceus and Terastal come to mind), the diversity is a real treat.

We will be working on the Viability Rankings, Sample Teams, Speed Tiers, and Set Compendium threads in the upcoming period so stay tuned for that!

 

[rubycandy]

Not sure how this will go over was im the first newer player to post however, I think Lugia could be really strong. It loves heavy-duty boots and Groudon getting spikes decreases its passivity with its ability to click whirlwind. And now that calls gone and Yveltal is not as relevant I think it could eb strong.