Resource National Dex Ubers Viability Rankings [Update #6 at post 231!]

Bobsican

NatDex Ubers TL
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Okay, as some may be aware a mini slate (exact votation details here) was done for some more niche choices that were brought up a bit too recently here or in the Discord server to be properly evaluated, so here's some new additions:

Basculegion:basculegion:: UR -> B-
Venusaur-Mega:venusaur-mega:: UR -> C
Latios-Mega:Latios-Mega:: UR -> C
Chien-Pao:Chien-Pao:: D -> C+
Iron Treads:Iron Treads:: UR -> C

So here's some basic explanations:

:Basculegion:: Last Respects is stupid, who would've thought? But unlike vanilla Ubers this mon struggles more as for one it can't just OHKO defensive variants of :Groudon-Primal: even as the last Pokemon left, really dislikes :marshadow:'s Shadow Sneak, and Swift Swim strategies are dead with primal weather from :groudon primal: and :kyogre primal: removing it by coming in and out, so overall in practice it's a rather cheesy Pokemon as it's limited to the Agility set, it could possibly use more exploration, however.

252 Atk Adaptability Basculegion Last Respects (300 BP) vs. 248 HP / 68+ Def Groudon-Primal: 340-400 (84.3 - 99.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
This is a quite funny calculation.

:venusaur-mega:: Easily the sturdiest answer to :kyogre-primal: in the metagame, Thick Fat and Synthesis healing more while under sun means that it can be used as a soft check to Primal Groudon with Leech Seed too, the lack of utility moves compared to :ferrothorn: is mainly what prevents it from rising higher, but it overall has its niche.

:latios-mega:: Thanks to Zrp200 it has been found out that this Pokemon does weird role compression between pivoting in Flip Turn and more notably Future Sight and Draco Meteor to avoid passivity compared to :alomomola:, however, that's where the niche ends as it's a bit too slow for the metagame, and faces heavy competition with :giratina-origin:.

:chien-pao:: Spammable STABs, rather fast, etc. One would think it'd have deserved to be ranked higher, but besides being hard-checked by :zacian-Crowned:, it needs to Terastallize to apply immediately offensive pressure, having no defensive utility whatsoever or Knock Off also does no favors.

:iron treads:: Basically a slightly better :excadrill:, it loses on the :hatterene: leads (which is the sole reason :excadrill: wasn't sent to UR), but Booster Energy gives it a really high speed tier without a choice lock to ensure Stealth Rock, this complemented with Rapid Spin to annoy other leads, and higher overall bulk let it do its job as a suicide lead better.
 
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I am more or less satisfied with the rankings so far. Here's mine:

S+
:groudon-primal: I feel like PDon got worse. Not that it doesn't deserve its S+ rank, but offensive sets are getting roadblocked by Giratina-O, and PDon doesn't have anything that hugely threaten it worth using over its other moves. Defensive sets are as good as ever.

S
:zygarde-complete: Remains an excellent Pokemon, though I thought that support Arceus would drop Taunt for other moves, which would have been even nicer for Zygarde. Offensive sets are quite good in this metagame, though I'm not a huge fan of LO, as Zygarde's bulk comes from its gargantuan HP.
:eternatus: Never ever deadweight, and its base 130 Speed is helpful as ever. Offensive or Support sets are all excellent. Providing an emergency switch-in to POgre is also welcomed.

S-
:arceus::earth-plate: Nothing has changed for Arceus-Ground, and the metagame is still lacking switch-ins to SD Groundium-Z sets, especially those with Taunt. Pair this with offensive PDon and you can weaken Giratina-O for the other to sweep.
:zacian-crowned: I don't understand why people want to drop this, if anything Zacian-C is thriving in this metagame. Having plenty of switch-in opportunities, Ho-Oh becoming rarer, with entry hazards you essentially need two hits on the opposing PDon before wreaking things, even less if you are running Tera Blast Ground.
:ho-oh: I'm not sold on Ho-Oh being S- rank. Brave Bird is close to mandatory now, otherwise offensive PDon, POgre, Eternatus to name a few can switch in with near impunity. Haven't tried CB variants, though they might be legit as those that I encountered were quite hard to maneuver around.

A+
:yveltal: S ranks should be for metagame-defining threats, and I don't think Yveltal is there yet. It can struggle against more offensive teams, and the resurgence of Arceus-Fairy doesn't help either. LO variants also have what I call the Marsh- syndrome (of course to a lesser extent), either KO or be KO'd as you need all the offensive EVs you can get. This is particularly apparent against POgre, Fire move PDon and Ho-Oh if lacking Knock Off. It is still an amazing Pokemon though.
:kyogre-primal: Not S for me. Its slow speed is a problem, but at the same time, it can soft check a lot of things and a headache to switch into without PDon. A+ is approppriate.
:arceus::dread-plate: I wanted to put this in A and there's definitely a distance between the aforementioned two. Still, it does its usual job.

A
1. :necrozma-ultra:
2. :arceus:
3. :marshadow:
4. :giratina-origin:
5. :salamence-mega:
6. :necrozma-dusk-mane:
7. :arceus::pixie-plate:


I still think Ultra-Necrozma is above Arceus and MegaMence above NDM. Ultra-Necrozma is the most prominent breaker in the metagame, especially if you lack Arceus-Dark. I can agree with Mega Salamence's drop as it doesn't abuse Ho-Oh anymore due to the latter's drop in usage. What I don't agree with is Arceus-Fairy and Giratina-O, they both deserve the A ranking. Giratina-O in particular can raise a few subranks. They are all better than the rest of the A- rank and I consider them core of the metagame. Their defensive and offensive profiles suit a lot of different styles and they are fairly customizable too.

That's all for the detailed thoughts, due to the lack of time. However, I think Gothitelle is worth B+ at least, it can be of incredible value albeit quite inconsistent. Alolomola is not B+, even B is stretching it. A well-built team blows through it and the archetypes it finds itself on rather easily if you keep the tempo of the game, meaning it only gets the opportunity to pass Wishes when given a free switch. Magearna can go down to C+ (and the voting slate is wrong it should be B-), if B- is stall's ranking then Dondozo should probably go there. Lando-T can go up to B-, having used it quite extensively I can say it is legit on offensive teams needing the slow U-Turn while being one of the best initial PDon switch-in (watch out for Overheat), pairing well with the likes of CB Marshadow or Deoxys-A, and chipping Zacians, Extremekillers with Rocky Helmet. Drop Buzzwole as it does nothing against the current metagame. Drop Mega Sableye, Arceus-Steel, Arceus-Rock, Gholdengo and Landorus-I by one subrank, they are not worth using. Happy about Basculegion and Mega Venusaur. C+ for Chien Pao seems high as Zacian, Tera Zygarde, Arceus-Fairy are all strong answers to it. Last but not least, I've already tried a long time ago to play with Iron Treads, and it can give good value to your team. However, I feel like Focus Sash Endeavor is better than Booster Energy. It's better than C and could go to C+ honestly.
 
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1714011313557.png
: B- -> B+

1714011386004.png
has insanely powerful edgequake coverage with amazing offensive stats, great bulk, and good speed. It has one of the best rock moves in the game in diamond storm, good coverage in mystical fire, and can set up either spikes or rocks. It also has one of the best abilities in the game in magic bounce. It shouldn't be in a lower tier than a mostly outclassed screen setter (Grimmsnarl).

Feel free to disagree.
 

Bobsican

NatDex Ubers TL
is a Site Content Manageris a Forum Moderatoris a Top Tiering Contributoris a Contributor to Smogon
Moderator
View attachment 627592: B- -> B+

View attachment 627594 has insanely powerful edgequake coverage with amazing offensive stats, great bulk, and good speed. It has one of the best rock moves in the game in diamond storm, good coverage in mystical fire, and can set up either spikes or rocks. It also has one of the best abilities in the game in magic bounce. It shouldn't be in a lower tier than a mostly outclassed screen setter (Grimmsnarl).

Feel free to disagree.
This is mere dex information, a good nomination for another rank explains how its traits are overall better or worse at dealing with the current metagame.
 
View attachment 627592: B- -> B+

View attachment 627594 has insanely powerful edgequake coverage with amazing offensive stats, great bulk, and good speed. It has one of the best rock moves in the game in diamond storm, good coverage in mystical fire, and can set up either spikes or rocks. It also has one of the best abilities in the game in magic bounce. It shouldn't be in a lower tier than a mostly outclassed screen setter (Grimmsnarl).

Feel free to disagree.
While magic bounce is a very nice trait to have in ndubers especially since mdia has spikis, mdia is still very frail and oftentimes you dont want your hazardblocker to be oneshot by the primal groudon. I do agree that diamond storm+earth power is a deadly combo but from experience it oftentimes doesnt have the offenses or the defenses to utilize it to the max
 

bumboclaat

Primal Groudon used Overheat
is a Pre-Contributor
View attachment 627592: B- -> B+

View attachment 627594 has insanely powerful edgequake coverage with amazing offensive stats, great bulk, and good speed. It has one of the best rock moves in the game in diamond storm, good coverage in mystical fire, and can set up either spikes or rocks. It also has one of the best abilities in the game in magic bounce. It shouldn't be in a lower tier than a mostly outclassed screen setter (Grimmsnarl).

Feel free to disagree.
B- is fine for the moment imo. Fwiw agree with you that it shouldn't be lower than Grimm, but I also think Grimm is a C/C+ mon. The issue with Mega Diancie is that it only really fits on some types of HO and mainly as a suicide lead. Its movepool is good and it is annoying to switch into, but in turn Diancie can't really switch into much of anything itself and requires that turn to mega. If it has it is so frail that even mons it struggles to switch into mons it should on paper such as Yveltal and Ho-Oh. They do enough damage that Diancie can't switch in repeatedly and furthermore it really does not want to risk a burn. It also has the issue of competing for the mega slot. On most teamstyles this isn't an issue, but HO does frequently like to use Mence which it can't if Diancie is used.

I could see Diancie potentially being B in the future if the types of HO teams it fits on rise to the front of the meta. That is the ceiling though as it is limited to specific flavours of HO. When I look at B- Diancie really feels like a C+ mon. Really the only mon I'd say Diancie is better than is Basculegion which I view as a C/C+ mon. You have the stall mons, alternate HO leads (Glimm should be B and Dozo should be B- imo), and Pheromosa which I do not have enough experience using or facing to confidently comment on. When I look at the mons in B+/B they are all significantly more viable than Diancie with the exception of Magearna, which I have no idea how it retained a B rank.
 
with the exception of Magearna, which I have no idea how it retained a B rank.
Because, as I mentioned in my previous post but I think the mods read past it, the ranking for Magearna is wrong, it should be B-. But please drop this to C+.

I don't have a strong opinion for Diancie. I will say that it's a very good SR setter as it beats most common defoggers, and if you build around its strengths, you can be decently rewarded. However, you pointed out some valid issues, especially regarding the nega slot on HO. For me B- is appropriate enough.

I really think a rise for Landorus-T is warranted, to B-. Intimidate is huge vs SD Arceus-Ground and Zacian-C. PDon does hit you hard with Overheat and even 252+ Heat Crash 2HKO through Intimidate, but switching on those threats and the slow U-Turn is huge in a metagame lacking the latter. It can also Defog in case of emergency.

:chansey: R8 edit: fixed magearna's rank, ty!
 
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:tyranitar mega: UR -> C

I was made aware of this Mon recently, and it has the tools to fill a niche for stall like no other, possibly enough to warrant taking the Mega Slot from Sableye in certain scenarios.

Thanks to Sand Stream, it gets a very strong SPDef with its already monster sized Def. This completely walls a notorious stall breaker in Specially Offensive Yveltal thanks to its Dark / Rock Typing and inability to be Knocked Off. Mega Tyranitar also greatly threatens Yveltal with Stone Edge. This already allows it to do something Mega Sableye cannot, as Oblivion Wing slowly wears Sableye down. Knock Off allows it to neutralize dangerous wallbreakers such as Choice Spec Eternatus and Choice Band Marshadow and pretty much kill Ho-Oh with Stealth Rock down. Earthquake does tons of damage to Eternatus. With Pursuit it can punish a Band Marshadow locked into the wrong move or an unlucky Giratina-O. Access to Stealth Rock allows it be a rock setter that is extremely hard to Defog on. With Taunt + some Speed investment, it can keep Zygarde, Ho-Oh and Giratina-O from using any utility moves, making the fact it can Pursuit trap Giratina-O all the more deadly. Roar can waste Meteor Beam from Eternatus and keep Arceus without Taunt from setting up.

Mega Tyranitar is not without flaws however, as Taunt Arceus-Ground easily sets up on it, which Sableye would beat with Prankster Will-O-Wisp. Mega Tyranitar also loses to Life Orb Marshadow and Deoxys-A, which Mega Sableye also beats. It is also especially prone to status and slowly being worn down, meaning Toxic Spikes from Eternatus makes switct also cannot do all that is mentioned at once due to only four move slots, meaning that Marshadow can easily wear down non-Pursuit, Giratina-O can Toxic non-Taunt to death, and Meteor Beam Eternatus can beat it over time after Power Herb is consumed if it’s not Earthquake.

Here’s a replay from the NatDex Uber Trio Tour that brought this to my attention:

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2112739086

In this battle Mega Tyranitar is able to consistently force out Yveltal and disrupts the entire team with Stealth Rock, especially Yveltal. Yveltal would easily have ran over this team if Mega Tyranitar was not here or even replaced by Mega Sableye, as Ho-Oh and Chansey would have been Knocked out of commission, while Dondonzo and Giratina also feared Knock Off and would have taken loads from Dark Pulse, which this Yveltal most likely had. Mewtwo would just be…. dead, unless it was Tera Fairy Tera Blast.

Just some thoughts!

252 SpA Life Orb Dark Aura Yveltal Dark Pulse vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 65-77 (17.3 - 20.5%) -- possible 5HKO

252 SpA Life Orb Yveltal Oblivion Wing vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 49-58 (13.1 - 15.5%) -- possible 7HKO

252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega Stone Edge vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yveltal: 446-528 (113.4 - 134.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+1 252 SpA Eternatus Meteor Beam vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 121-143 (32.3 - 38.2%) -- 97.1% chance to 3HKO

+1 252 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 132 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar-Mega in Sand: 153-180 (40.9 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eternatus: 298-352 (70.7 - 83.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega switching boosted Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 248 HP / 20 Def Giratina-Origin: 336-396 (66.7 - 78.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage

252+ Atk Tyranitar-Mega switching boosted Pursuit (80 BP) vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Marshadow: 204-241 (63.5 - 75%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after sandstorm damage
 

bumboclaat

Primal Groudon used Overheat
is a Pre-Contributor
With Seasonals in the rear view mirror and Trios wrapping up soon now seems to be a decent time to make some nominations. These are the first tournament games we've had since NDFL wrapped up in early January and more importantly since the Xerneas ban. I don't know when the next VR slate is going to be, but I'm really don't feel like putting effort into a VR post and having some huge shakeup happen for the third straight time so I'm posting this now. If anything happens in the last 3 games of Trios I'll edit it in.

Edit1: Did not realize there were some issues w/ the formatting for Smogon Dark users and it has been fixed. You learn something new every day

Noms
:yveltal: | S-[4] -> S-[1 or 2] | If this was a personal VR Yveltal would be S[3]. My truly hot take is that it is barely worse if not on par with Eternatus. Though everyone expected Yveltal to get better with Xerneas leaving, it is signficantly better than I was expecting. Life Orb sets are the most consistent breaker in the tier. The only actual good defensive switchin is Arceus Fairy or Mega Tyranitar if you're running stall. Defensive Primal Kyogre trades and bulky Eternatus sets can check it, but rather inconsistently as it is going to have to get the toxic/ recover v taunt coinflip right if it is switching in. Even Zac-C, the only good offensive switchin is dangerously close to CB Ghost Shadow Sneak range if it switches in on Dark Pulse. Sucker Punch also exists and is very good.

Defensive sets have also been flourishing recently. They were usable before, but were incredibly limiting to build with, especially if it wanted to run Defog. Kind of shocking that not having to find ways to deal with both Xerneas and Zacian-C while also having to burn tera to consistently answer Ultra Necrozma leads to more consistency. Scarf sets are also great though a step down from the other two. Honourable mention to being one of the best answers to the currently trendy Psyspam. Yveltal is a mon that should be at least considered for every non-stall team currently during the building process. It won't make it onto every team, but it can slot well into most of them.

:marshadow: | A[2] -> A+[3] | Pretty much the same nomination from 2 months ago. CB is a nutty breaker and revenge killer that does live some hits, notably defensive Primal Groudon Precipice Blades and uninvested Dynamax Cannon. Bulk Up sets are also very good, but are quite difficult to pilot at times. I really don't like AoA at all. It is a bad combination of CB and BU sets. It lacks the breaking power of CB while still chipping itself down w LO and is nowhere near as scary a cleaner as BU. Just use BU, checking Zygarde and Ho-Oh is not that hard.

:arceus-fairy: | A-[1] -> A [1 or 2] | A little bit after Koraidon was banned I thought Arceus-Fairy was B+ material. My opinion has changed to say the least. Arceus-Fairy was better than I gave it credit for then but is amazing now. Being a defensive Fairy is amazing, especially with Yveltal currently being a bit silly. Arceus-Fairy is also the only Arceus forme I've ran rocks on because I actually liked it as a rocker. A [2] is fine as well. If you're higher on HO than I am Ekiller should be better. Ekiller is still great as always, but Arceus Fairy is just amazing defensively at the moment. I can't remember if it made it into the analysis, but tera Dark is great on it. Arceus-Fairy rarely teras anyways and having a discount Arceus-Dark in your back pocket to deal with a lot of the same pokes (Ultra Necrozma mostly but also + Mega Salamence) is great and the rise of Psyspam is just another benefit. I'm still lukewarm when it comes to offensive sets without Gothitelle support.

:giratina-origin: | A-[2] -> A [5] | I'm not 100% sure where Giratina-O should be other than in the A. Giratina-O, and BO by extension, is one of it not the biggest beneficiaries of Xerneas leaving. I'm not a huge fan of physical sets, but special sets are amazing. Fogless sets are pretty cool. R8 brought Resttalk Giratina-O to trios semis which put in quite a bit of work.

:lunala: | B -> B+ | Offensive Lunala, specs in particular, is a mon which benefits a lot from recent metagame trends. Balance teams are trending bulkier which Lunala feasts on. Yveltal becoming bird jesus isn't ideal for it, but that isn't something that really bothers Lunala. Lunala has always required support, usually in the form of Zygarde and Arceus-Fairy anyways. They are both excellent mons and Arceus-Fairy is better than ever so relying on them for support isn't a huge issue. Specs Lunala also doesn't require Shadow Shield to remain intact to function as a breaker, it is nice thing to have, but Lunala doesn't rely on it to where hazards being present impedes its ability to wallbreak.

:gothitelle: | B -> B+ | Similar to Yveltal if this was a personal VR Gothitelle would be higher, somewhere low in A-. Yes Gothitelle is mostly deadweight v HO. It also has 5 teammates to handle that and can still trap DD Ultra Necrozma at least. Some people say Gothitelle is too matchup fishy to be higher than B which is, politely, malarkey. Gothitelle is easier to build consistent/good teams with or more flexible than quite a few mons in A-/B+ (Mega Mewtwo Y, Palkia-Horse, Arceus-Water, Calyrex-I, Zekrom). The only reason it shouldn't be B+ is because we've realized Shadow Tag is uncompetitive and banned it.

:dondozo: | C+ -> B- | Every couple of weeks someone talks about Tangrowth's potential on stall in Dozo's slot. On the rare ocassion where someone actually shows a paste or replay it isn't really convincing. It isn't better or worse since the last slate, but until someone shows a viable stall team without Dozo it should share a subrank with Giratina and Chansey.

:arceus-grass: | C -> C+ | It semi-requires Gothitelle support, but that isn't really a dealbreaker for me, Gothitelle is a broken mon. Requiring Gothitelle support or fitting on limited structures isn't a huge issue this low in the VR and applies to most of the C rank mons anyways. NeonJolteonWasUsed and Runo are the best people to speak about Arceus-Grass.

:tapu-lele: |C- -> C+ | It hasn't changed viability wise since the last voting slate but C- is really underselling Psyspam. It is a decent archetype that likely has some developments in the future. There is an argument for B-, but it isn't quite there or flexible enough yet for me.

:tyranitar-mega: | UR -> C- | I can find some replays if needed since those are normally required when nominating a mon to be ranked. I'd imagine at this point we are all aware of Mega Tyranitar stall. Mega Tyranitar offers role compression for stall and punishes lazy builders who slap LO Yveltal on their team and call it a day. It isn't a stall mainstay by any stretch but has a niche which isn't replicable. It is similar to Gargancl / Gholdengo as a niche mon which has its place on a couple of teams.
:zacian-crowned: | S-[2] -> S-[4] | Historically I've thought Ho-Oh was better and that opinion hasn't changed. I'll discuss Ho-Oh a bit more below. It is still a great mon doing what it has always done and should remain S-. Nothing about Zacian-C itself has changed much. Yveltal has just gotten a lot better and it moves up something else has dropped.

:arceus: | A [1] -> A[2] | The same thing I've said about Zacian-C applies to Arceus. This is a function of me rating Arceus-Fairy highly rather than anything significant changing with Ekiller. It doesn't like Psyspam, but it does like Basculegion. I have a slightly dimmer view of HO than some other people and the drop of one rank is a reflection of that. I'm alright with it retaining the top of A.

:salamence-mega: | A[5] -> A-[1] | So in Trios HO was spammed to the point where its representation far exceeded its viability. Mega Salamence, the HO staple, was brought just 3 times as of writing this (finals are yet to happen). It didn't actually come out in Anchor9s R1 game though the team it faced was such dogshit that it doesn't matter. Bodi brought it R2 where it trade with a Whirlpool Arceus-Dark. It would have lost that 1v1 anyways if Arceus-Dark ran a good set but this is the type of matchup where you'd expect Mega Salamence to put in a fair bit of work breaking and yet it didn't. Bodi also brought a BO no HO team. Xurkiyee brought in R3 on a HO v R8. R8's team is weird as hell but Mence is always going to struggle to sweep and to some degree break v these fatter balances, even if they're more standard. These sorts of teams usually have adequate means of preventing Mega Salamence from getting out of hand or punching too many holes in the defensive core.

Trios is a small tournament so I've also taken a look at seasonals rounds 7 and later as this was when the Xerneas ban came into effect. Xurkiyee brought Mega Salamence twice in R7. It wasn't really bad here. They really just lost this game purely due to luck. This was LO Zygarde which is a very fishy set that found a perfect matchup against someone who had never seen it. Mega Salamence went down because Outrage crit. Zygarde then lived a roll. The game was truly won by luck and a bad decision to Tera Yveltal. Even ignoring that Mega Salamence didn't really contribute anything. SD TR NDM pretty much solo'd Alphas team that the Xurk should have won the game with or without Mega Salamence. It could have gone crazy g3 if Xurk had just switched to it once Smeargle's sash was broken. Once webs were up it was pretty much gg, but a good showing for Mence if the game wasn't thrown. The only other apperance it made was Aninjadude v Squeeby. Mega Salamence fished for a Body Slam para, didn't get it and died.

So between these two tournaments Mega Salamence was brought 5 times in 65 games post Xerneas ban and didn't really do anything in any of them. Balance has trended a bit fatter and while it still can put in work v HO, it requires precise positioning and a decent matchup. The balance teams that Mega Salamence used to feast on with a little bit of chip are less common these days. After spending a while gathering replays Mega Salamence could justifiably drop lower than A-[1].

:palkia-origin: | A-[4] -> A-[6]/B+ | This one I'm a little less sure on. All of Palkia-O's previous problems still exist. It isn't good into HO and deadweight v stall. It can be s tier v a lot of balance teams, but it has to click the right move and that move has to hit. Palkia-O could potentially cling to A- due to metagame trends. As mentioned many times at this point, balance is getting fatter and this is something Palkia-O generally appreciates. These fatter balance teams are quite good against most of the meta. These fatter balance teams are also generally far worse into Palkia-O. It finds significantly more entry points v these fatter balances and is harder to force out. It should definitely drop, I'm just not sure how much.

:mewtwo-mega-y: | A-[6] -> B+/B | Honestly fuck building with this mon. You invest into defence to live LO Marshadow Shadow Sneak and still die to CB. Even then it doesn't matter because unless you face HO chances are this is your breaker and it is going to need to come and 3/4 of the time it dies to LO Sneak after rocks anyways. It suffers from Ultra Necrozma demanding attention in the builder and it loses to all the same stuff. It has absurd 4MSS. Without Fire Blast it is incredibly shaky v steels since defensive NDM is real again and FB is FB and MMY cannot afford to miss it. So it has one moveslot left to decide what beats it. FB beats Arceus-Dark 70% of the time and IB deals with Yveltal unless it happens to be Sucker Punch which is fairly common on offensive sets. Oh and now it can't stallbreak at all because Dozo walls it. If this were the end of MMY's issues it would probably be fine to stay at A-. It also gets outsped and OHKOed by Zacian-C and really struggles to break without a boost.

Ultimately you end up with this mon that is quite frail, has incredibly common counterplay that it doesn't reliably handle anyways, and requires a lot of defensive support if it isn't run on HO. It does have good matchups, especially v fatter balances lacking Zacian-C / Marshadow. Ultimately everytime I try and build with this mon end up using some other special breaker. Something like Specs Lunala is better into most non HO teams, requires similar if not less support, hits a lot harder, and actually scares its switchins even if it isn't scouted. Arceus-Dark and Yveltal are scared shitless of Moonblast and Ho-Oh worries about Trick or Tera Ghost 2HKOeing. Yeah and it can Tera Fairy to actually have a good defensive typing and doesn't crumple to a light breeze even if Shadow Shield is broken. MMY could honestly be B-, but I need to be realistic with noms.

:zekrom: | B+ -> B/B- | It isn't a bad mon at all. It only really fits well on HO and is not close to a staple on there. Usage is not the same thing as viability, but Zekrom isn't some stupidly strong mon that requires specific support or a breaker that teammates commonly rely on to help weaken shared checks. At some point results matter and Zekrom doesn't really have many to point to. Adem mentioned at some point it should be C+ and though I don't entirely disagree, it is a bit much for a mon that still has a place on HO even if it is used less than it should be. Zekrom is just really out of place in B+ and I'm a bit surprised that it didn't drop in the last slate.

:grimmsnarl: | B -> C+/C | Everything I said a month ago still applies. If you want consistent screens go w Deo-S. If you want to fish go w/ Grimm. It isn't any worse currently than it was two months ago, it just should have dropped more than one subrank.

:magearna: | B- -> C-/D | I'm going to assume that the only reason this didn't drop signifcantly further is due to the timing of the last vote. Yeah it is a good answer to LO YV, but that is all it does. It was justifiable when it also handled Xerneas as the role compression was quite valuable to fat balances. Yes it has a unique set of traits but Magearna rarely ever actually make use of them. C- is really just because D might be considered too big of a drop for one slate and countering LO Yveltal is maybe worth something. If it fits on good teams it is Gholdengo/Garganacl levels of specific.

:mewtwo-mega-x: | C+ -> C-/D | Every now and then it has the right four moves to actually do some work. Even that lightest of praise is probably overselling MMX. In the Xerneas meta you could handwave away its 4MSS to some degree as Stone Edge handled Yveltal and Ho-Oh and Giratina-O was uncommon. I don't see how you can do that now. Similar to Magearna, maybe there is some combination of moves that enables MMX to maintain a sliver of viability, but I just don't see it. It has probably 8 moves that it wants to run and even if it could run them all at the same time it would still be mid.

:melmetal: | C -> C- | Similar to Dozo this is a consistency thing. Melmetal should be the same subrank as Hatterene. I'm not a believer in TR so that is dropping it to C- though I don't care enough to argue against it retaining its C rank and moving Hatterene up a rank. Cresselia is not mandatory on TR like Hatterene is it being a subrank lower is fine even if Melmetal really wants Healing Wish support due it commonly running out of PP on DIB.

:landorus: | C- -> D | Is being a mediocre suicide rocker for HO that is annoying for a couple of turns enough to justify ranking this. It is appealing as a breaker but it just a bit short on power to do that even with support while also having 4MSS. I've tried to make it work as a breaker and Landorus unfortunately just doesn't get it done consistently even with an entire team dedicated to supporting it. Yeah HO actually wants a mega sometimes, but Mega Diancie prevents Shuckle from getting up webs and Exca can get rocks up v TR teams. I'm struggling to see how that tiny niche is enough to keep it ranked.
S+ :groudon-primal:
S :zygarde::eternatus:
S- :yveltal::arceus-ground::ho-oh::zacian-crowned:
A+ :kyogre-primal::arceus-dark::marshadow:
A :arceus-fairy::arceus::necrozma-ultra::necrozma-dusk-mane::giratina-origin:
A- :salamence-mega::deoxys-attack::deoxys-speed::palkia-origin:

Discussion Points

:ho-oh:| Where to put it? | During the Xerneas meta if I did not run Ho-Oh it was more often than not because I built a team with the express intent to use other hazard removal. Strangely, defensive Ho-Oh sets are not worse than they were during the Xerneas meta. If anything, they are slightly better. During the Xern meta Ho-Oh has a tendency to be overwhelmed, particularly v HO, due to being tasked with so much defensively. It would often be tasked with: hard checking Xerneas and Zacian-C, removing hazards, and often soft checking something else as well. It could do all of these things, but doing so consistently was incredibly difficult. Particularly so when it is the only good Zacian check that isn't deleted by Tera Blast Ground.

This lead to HO v Ho-Oh balance matchups often being quite fishy and matchup being the deciding factor far more often than in game play. Xerneas leaving the tier has signficantly eased the burden placed on Ho-Oh defensively. It is far more consistent at removing hazards while remaining very beatable via offensive pressure. The ability to more easily drop WW for BB makes it far less free to switch into for Primal Kyogre, Eternatus, and opposing Ho-Oh.

Furthermore, offensive sets are far easier to run presently. During the Xern meta Ho-Oh needed every EV possible and running an offensive set made Ho-Oh far shakier into the mons it is supposed to be checking. Not having to check Xern in addition to half the metagame gives Ho-Oh a lot of breathing room and the freedom to more frequently deviate from defensive sets. I was goobed by a Band Ho-Oh on a fake stall team in seasonals.

The reason I'm not sure where Ho-Oh should be is that its competition has improved rather than Ho-Oh being worse itself. Yveltal and Giratina-O went from good, but constricting and at times, inconsistent hazard removal to excellent. Ho-Oh was and is the best option for hazard removal generally, but it is easier than ever to build good teams using other options. To what degree, if any, should this factor in?

:necrozma-dusk-mane:|No Change | This an honourable mention of sorts. Defensive sets have gone from bordering on unviable to somewhere in the range of alright to decent. Offensive sets can take advantage of Yveltal's ubiquity to remove it. NDM is here rather than in the noms section because it seemed a bit high in the last slate but its current rank feels about right. I'm wondering what others think about the lion currently?

:deoxys-speed:|A-[5]->?| Deoxys-S is still the best HO lead, but it faces severe competition. The physically defensive RH set that has been picking up steam recently does do very well into opposing HO leads. However, teams are more frequently opting for other HO leads and are doing so sucessfully. Glimmora has certainly solidified its place in the tier as an alternative for Hstack HOs at this point while also being a mainstay on the trendy Psyspam teams where people seem to generally perfer Glimmora's ability to puke out hazards rather webs unless they run Basculegion. I'm not really sure where Deoxys-S should go, but a slight drop is appropriate. Whether that is lower in A- or B+ I'm not sure.

:rayquaza:|B+ or A-?| I've been a Ray to A- advocate for a while. Right now I'm not so sure. Ray both loves and hates the changes post Xerneas. The meta is trending towards both HO and bulkier balances. Band Rayquaza is kinda trash into HO since it only ever wants to use Extreme Speed if it is going to be the last turn of the game. LO Ray does fit well on HO, but it certainly isn't a staple and does not fit on the currently popular Psyspam. Band Ray in general does feast on these bulkier balances, but Eternatus being on most of them while being capable of running both offensive and defensive sets is not something Rayquaza likes. It is self sufficient and splashable to justify A-, but is it consistent enough?

:ditto:|B+ -> A-?| Really just would like to foster discussion on this. Ditto, similar to Alo is a mon between tiers for me. Great mon, but are the consistency issues too much to keep it from A-?

:alomomola:| B -> B+?| I'm on the fence whether Alo is B or B+. When discussing some stuff with R8 around the time of the last slate I was asked why I thought Alo should be B instead of B+. My response was that I wanted to give it some time and see how Alo teams developed and how the meta handled them. Presently I'm on the fence though Alo is certainly closer to B+ than B. It is simultaneously freeing and constricting to build with. Its ceiling is somewhere around the bottom of A- but it definitely is not there currently. I'm wondering what everyone else thinks?

:basculegion:| I Don't Know | Initially had this nommed to drop to C+, but then thought about it more and it could be anywhere from B to C+ and I could be convinced. Last Respects is stupid and uncompetitive, but Basculegion isn't good or consistent enough to ban it. Adem please get this mon to B/B+ level so we can ban it. Stupid Fish.

:diancie-mega:/:glimmora:/:smeargle:/:shuckle:These all in the same subrank feels wrong. Personally I'd move Mega Diancie and Glimmora to B, and keep one of Smeargle or Shuckle in B- and move the other to C+. Other than Glimmora deserving B I don't have a strong opinion on the rest. Would appreciate it if y'all gave your thoughts.

:landorus-therian:| C -> C+ | Think it should rise a subrank as scarf did put in some work for R8 in Trio and that is another set it can viably run beyond Adem's intial nomination of Rocky Helmet. I don't think it is a world beater or anything, but it is an appealing option for enough teams that C+ is fine. I could see it potentially being B- in the future but doubt it would rise beyond that. What do y'all think?

:excadrill:| C- -> D | It gets up rocks v TR. Treads was ranked last slate because it largely outclassed Excadrill. This is really the only thing Excadrill has over it. Initially had it in the nom section, but thought about it a bit more and we really had and continue to have some real dogshit mons ranked so maybe that is enough to a niche to remain ranked.

:Skarmory:| C- -> D | Neon discussed what it could do the other day and my memory is failing me a bit. One of the things mentioned was checking Ekiller which commonly runs both Taunt and Tera Ghost which bypass anything Skarmory would try to do to it. I've barely seen this mon in months and everytime it pops up it doesn't do squat, but that may be the teams I build. I'd put it in the nom section but I can't in good faith with the level of uncertainty I have.
 
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:diancie-mega:/:glimmora:/:smeargle:/:shuckle:These all in the same subrank feels wrong. Personally I'd move Mega Diancie and Glimmora to B, and keep one of Smeargle or Shuckle in B- and move the other to C+. Other than Glimmora deserving B I don't have a strong opinion on the rest. Would appreciate it if y'all gave your thoughts.
Honestly drop Smeargle. I hate using this thing. It feels so inconsistent and easy to play around especially compared to any other HO lead. Deoxys-S has Magic Coat and Taunt which it can afford to run either. Grimmsnarl has Prankster Taunt which is even better. Glimmora has Mortal Spin and Mud Shot to discourage support Arceus formes and other Taunt users from staying in on it. Shuckle has Mental Herb and Mega Diancie has Magic Bounce so Taunt doesn't matter against those two.

But Smeargle is weird since it has the biggest 4MSS in the entire tier IMO. You want Spore or Nuzzle for status inflicting, Sticky Webs for the whole niche, Ceaseless Edge or Stone Axe for additional hazard support, and then you have the fourth moveslot, where Smeargle wants Mortal Spin, Rapid Spin, Whirlwind, Taunt, Magic Coat and even Icy Wind to an extent. Obviously it can't run all of it, making Smeargle fine in some MUs but miserable against others, like if I had Whirlwind to stop setup then I'm useless against Glimmora leads, but if I had Rapid Spin then I fold to setup sweepers like Refresh Arceus formes, Refresh Mega Salamence and the more niche Substitute Zekrom. Even then, compared to Shuckle and Grimmsnarl, Smeargle has no way to bring in teammates either, since it can't usually run Final Gambit or a pivoting move like Parting Shot. It doesn't have an offensive prescence at all unlike Mega Diancie or Psycho Boost Deoxys-S (even if the latter is a bit limited), and it doesn't have a very reliable ability since Moody can mess you over by reducing Speed, or make you unstoppable by boosting it instead.

Overall Smeargle is just really inconsistent and strange to use compared to the other HO leads in the tier, it's definitely better than other leads like Landorus-I but that doesn't really justify it being in the same tier as Glimmora or Shuckle, both of which are very trustworthy in setting up hazards. I argue Smeargle should be C+/C since a lot of teams that use it could justify using Shuckle instead.
 

bumboclaat

Primal Groudon used Overheat
is a Pre-Contributor
One more to add to the list:

:garganacl: [C->C] - R8 brought this v me in trios finals. I'm not sure how useful the replay is but it is something. I'm not a particularly big fan of the team as it is very passive and could use a bit more offensive pressure imo, but I really do like Garganacl on these sorts of balance builds and this set especially. Garganacl certainly has its issues, it is C- and i'm nominating it for C, but these flaws can be easily covered in bulkier balance builds.

This is also probably the best way to use Garganacl. The SpD investment allows Garganacl deceptively bulky on the special side. For example, it is while its naturally fantastic physical bulk is enough even uninvested to get the ball rolling after a curse. The reason I like this version of Garganacl a lot more than the Protect/SR or ID/BP sets is that it enables to Garganacl to do what it does best: force progress while acting as a solid wincon.

Salt Cure is a broken move and gives Gargnacal a unique place within the tier. It is one of it not the best punishers of Defog. Our three main defoggers are Ho-Oh, Yveltal, and Giratina-O. Garganacl forces awkward sequences v all of these mons as none of them pose a signficant threat to Garganacl as nothing 2HKOes though offensive Ho-Oh can be a bit annoying. Garganacl forces opponents running non HO builds to make an uncomfortable decsion. The defogger can't meaningfully damage Garganacl so they're forced to switch out, but what do you switch out to? Defensive mons can but they're going to be worn down over time while most of our wallbreakers really don't want to switch into Salt Cure. Garganacl can repeat this cycle until it has the opportunity to act as a win condition.

Tera Fairy as R8 brought it probably the best tera type to use and also gives you a switchin to Marshadow, which is the only breaker that comes to mind that doesn't hate the prospect of a bit of Salt Cure chip to force Garganacl out. Pretty much everything else is either weak to Rock so Salt Cure does a little bit actual damage, takes 25% per turn, or is Pdon which really doesn't want to take Salt Cure. All in all it is a pretty cool antimeta option for fatter balances and feels out of place in C-. It feels more akin to a lot of the C pokes and I'd rate it higher than some of the C+ ones as well (flutter fraud and mega mewtwo mid) even if C+ is a bit high. If you build around Garganacl it is a pretty cool option for fatter stuff.
 
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R8

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To preface, i don't think i played the game really well (like the arc ground sack was really terrible), but i think the team concept is good - https://pokepast.es/42f71a4ca0af2ac5

bumboclaat is correct when talking about Garganacl's matchup against defoggers, and this is what this team is aiming to take advantage of: Arceus-Ground, Ferrothorn and Eternatus have very different defensive profiles which gives the team the ability to easily get some sort of hazard up early in the game, and trade hazards against most other hazard setters. Garganacl has a very strong matchup into Giratina and Ho-Oh in particular, and can punish them with salt cure. Its defensive profile is generally very nice too, as being immune to toxic/status in general and resisting ghost is valuable, and it resists Marshadow and Gira-O's stabs after tera. I am still not sure which of id press or eq curse garg is better, but earthquake hitting Eternatus decently is something definitively valuable.

There might be other possibles takes on hazard stack + Garganacl, but i think in any cases stealth rocks Arceus Ground is probably mandatory in this archetype, as you need something to trade hazards against stealth rocks Primal Groudon. If you are confident you are able to trade hazards vs balance in general, i don't think you need to run defog.
 

bumboclaat

Primal Groudon used Overheat
is a Pre-Contributor
The viability rankings were last updated shortly after Xerneas was banned. Since then, the metagame has undergone some pretty significant developments and the VR council is planning on a new slate in the near future to better reflect the current metagame. Are there any changes you'd like to see? Now is a great time to let us know! Your nominations must contain some reasoning or they will be ignored.
 
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Eledyr

Le vilain petit Wooloo
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:pmd/gothitelle: B -> B+ / bottom of A-

Gothitelle is the textbook definition of an enabler. Its one and only objective is to trap and remove key targets so that its teammates can then do their job without being bothered. And Gothitelle does that wonderfully. It's incredibly oppressive for any non HO teams, especially slower paced teams that relies on passive walls. Simply said, Gothitelle can win on preview certain games by existing. And even in matchups where it can't do much, its capacity at weakening threats with Charm and Confide can sometimes be put to work, especially against threats like Arceus and Ultra Necrozma. In my opinion, this is an absolutely incredible job to fulfill, and something very few teams can ignore. With all this, I think Gothitelle should be raised, and I'd even consider it to be in low A- due to how it can feel like a death sentence to face it with a defensive team.
 
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I know it's a lot of drops but since VR might be updated soon I felt like sharing what I think about the metagame as a whole; note that some of these picks may be a bit biased or inaccurate, but I don't think it's super obvious (excluding the last nom of course but that's different + not a proper nom since I don't expect these guys to change anyways).

:arceus: A1 --> A3 I think putting Extreme Killer above Marshadow, one of the tier's best revenge-killers and wallbreakers, is a bit of an overstatement to how good it is. Extreme Killer I feel isn't nearly as splashable as Marshadow is, only being common on Offense to Hyper Offense structures, where I've seen it still have to compete with Arceus-Ground and Ultra Necrozma for a physical sweeper, the latter having a much easier time setting up in my experience, especially with way less reliable checks, and fitting on different types of HO structures like PsySpam and Webs compared to Extreme Killer. Of course Extreme Killer isn't bad, and you could say this is a bit of a nitpick, but I just don't think it's better than Marshadow or Ultra Necrozma.

:giratina-origin:
A-2 --> A6 Giratina-O is such a good mon right now it's insane. Although it's longevity isn't as good as Ho-Oh's, it is still such as good Defog user with great utility in Toxic, Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave. It has great Tera options in Poison, Steel and even Fairy to some extent, and can even afford to run Priority. Such a splashable mon too, and although it may not be fantastic at any of these traits, it's a jack-of-all-trades mon like Arceus-Ground. Compared to Arceus-Fairy, Giratina-O isn't nearly as passive against mons such as Zacian-C either due to its solid offenses or utility, and I feel like its much easier to justify using. Although, I am considering Arceus-Fairy to rise as well, but I think A-1 is good enough for it at the moment, again because Utility sets kinda struggle with 4MSS between Taunt, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp and even Earth Power, and offensive sets can feel underwhelming at times.

:palkia-origin: A-4 --> B+ I've expressed this before but I really don't like the inconsistency with this thing. Sure it's great into Bulky Offense and some Balance structures, but outside of that it gets destroyed by HO and does nothing against Stall. Having an inaccurate STAB and coverage options makes this feel like a gamble too often to justify putting this high in my opinion, especially since it faces so much competition with Eternatus, who's faster and has more reliable moves to use. It doesn't have that much defensive utility either, having barely any resistances, with the only noteworthy mons being Primal Kyogre (which can chip it significantly with Thunder) and Defensive Necrozma-DM (not sure if Substitute even lives Earthquake, and this thing is kinda mid anyways).

:mewtwo-mega-y: A-6 --> B+ This thing is so hard to build around and suffers from so much 4MSS it's insane. Sure, unscouted MMY is pretty terrifying to fight against, but it can't hit everything it wants to. Psystrike and Nasty Plot are mandatory, meaning it only has 2 moveslots for coverage. Ice Beam is necessary for Yveltal, Fire Blast is necessary for NDM and Focus Blast is necessary for Arceus-Dark, so whatever you run you're bound to get walled by something, and die/be forced out by said things. The first two options are also kinda mid into stall since Dondozo walls you then, which is pretty absurd for a special attacker, although Dondozo itself has to be careful with its HP to do so. Compared to Deoxys-A, who's seeing a massive surge in popularity because of PsySpam, notice how MMY has just... faded away. Deoxys-A is just faster and has the ability to fit all the coverage it needs into one moveslot thanks to Meteor Beam, or just nuke stuff with Life Orb + Tera Ghost Tera Blast. MMY is just underwhelming compared to Deoxys-A and it has very fringe cases where it's better such as on non-PsySpam Webs teams or Dual Screens HO.

:grimmsnarl:
B --> C+ There isn't really a reason to use Grimmsnarl over Deoxys-S in my eyes. Being unable to stop Yveltal from using Defog, especially since Defensive and Scarf Yveltal are so popular, is pretty bad. I suppose being able to get multiple screens up in one game is neat, but the Rocky Helment Deoxys-S spread can do so as well, especially against offensive teams, just like Grimmsnarl. I suppose being Dark-type is neat against PsySpam, Basculegion and Marshadow (especially since the Fairy-type helps against the latter), but these feel like niche cases rather than something to justify it being B tier.

:magearna:B- --> C Listen, I agree that Life Orb Yveltal is annoying to handle. This is not a good reason why this thing is all the way in B- though. It doesn't do anything else outside of that, that other mons can't do. The only reason I'm not putting it in D tier is because Heal Bell is neat for Fat Balance teams, and Volt Switch is still useful. But apart from that, this mon doesn't do much and I'm shocked it even stayed here after Xerneas got banned.

:smeargle:B- --> C+ I'm just gonna link this:
Honestly drop Smeargle. I hate using this thing. It feels so inconsistent and easy to play around especially compared to any other HO lead. Deoxys-S has Magic Coat and Taunt which it can afford to run either. Grimmsnarl has Prankster Taunt which is even better. Glimmora has Mortal Spin and Mud Shot to discourage support Arceus formes and other Taunt users from staying in on it. Shuckle has Mental Herb and Mega Diancie has Magic Bounce so Taunt doesn't matter against those two.

But Smeargle is weird since it has the biggest 4MSS in the entire tier IMO. You want Spore or Nuzzle for status inflicting, Sticky Webs for the whole niche, Ceaseless Edge or Stone Axe for additional hazard support, and then you have the fourth moveslot, where Smeargle wants Mortal Spin, Rapid Spin, Whirlwind, Taunt, Magic Coat and even Icy Wind to an extent. Obviously it can't run all of it, making Smeargle fine in some MUs but miserable against others, like if I had Whirlwind to stop setup then I'm useless against Glimmora leads, but if I had Rapid Spin then I fold to setup sweepers like Refresh Arceus formes, Refresh Mega Salamence and the more niche Substitute Zekrom. Even then, compared to Shuckle and Grimmsnarl, Smeargle has no way to bring in teammates either, since it can't usually run Final Gambit or a pivoting move like Parting Shot. It doesn't have an offensive prescence at all unlike Mega Diancie or Psycho Boost Deoxys-S (even if the latter is a bit limited), and it doesn't have a very reliable ability since Moody can mess you over by reducing Speed, or make you unstoppable by boosting it instead.

Overall Smeargle is just really inconsistent and strange to use compared to the other HO leads in the tier, it's definitely better than other leads like Landorus-I but that doesn't really justify it being in the same tier as Glimmora or Shuckle, both of which are very trustworthy in setting up hazards. I argue Smeargle should be C+/C since a lot of teams that use it could justify using Shuckle instead.
:buzzwole: C+ --> C- I had to ask what this thing even does that's how irrelevant it is. Apparently it checks physical attackers like Zygarde, Arceus-Ground, Extreme Killer and Marshadow, but I have never in my life seen this thing be used. I want to put it into UR but I know there must be something justifying it in C+ somehow. It also just looks... passive? I'm not sure what the standard moveset or spread is (because again I've barely seen anyone mention it let alone use it) but I have a feeling this thing just lets every special attacker in, especially if it's using Bulk Up. Also, what's wrong with using Zygarde? Is Roost THAT valuable? Is the Ground- and Fighting-resistances THAT useful to justify over Zygarde? I don't get it.

:dondozo:C+ --> B- If Giratina and Chansey can be B- for stall, why can't this thing? It's as much of a stall staple as Chansey is. It may be a bit passive but it's gargantuan bulk and Unaware more than makes up for it, vastly limiting the number of Physical mons that can somewhat break through it.

:kyurem-black: C+ --> B- This thing is seriously underrated and underestimated. Even in the tier with Primal Groudon, BoltBeam is still really strong coverage, and outside of Primal Groudon there aren't many mons that can reliably answer this thing, especially if its behind a Substitute. It smashes through Stall, does well into Fat Balance teams and can hold its own against Offense and HO teams since it is a decent switch-in to Primal Kyogre.

:mewtwo-mega-x: C+ --> C- Mewtwo can't catch a break can it? But seriously just use Marshadow or Mega Salamence for a physical attacker. Just like MMY, it struggles with 4MSS since it wants so much from Zen Headbutt, Ice Beam, Knock Off, Stone Edge, Taunt and even Poison Jab or Bulk Up, as well as it struggling to compete with NDM or Ultra Necrozma for a strong Psychic-type. There's just not enough good reasons to justify using this thing, to the point where using this thing JUST for STAB Focus Blast doesn't sound so far-fetched IMO. The only reason I'm not putting it in D tier is because I feel bad, or rather because it can be a little bit annoying to pivot around if it DOES get the coverage right, but this logic would apply to any sweeper (like Facade Mega Salamence vs a status-spam team).

:arceus-rock:C --> C+ Being a good switch-in to Yveltal, Mega Salamence and Rayquaza is pretty neat, as well as arguably being one of the most reliable Stealth Rock setters in the game being able to scare away both Ho-Oh and Defensive Yveltal from Defogging, leaving only Giratina-O to do it (another reason why it should be ranked higher). It's pretty strong too considering how solid Rock-type STAB is right now.

:landorus-therian: C --> C+ This guy is just annoying. Too annoying for C tier IMO so I'm ranking it higher. It is a great Arceus-Ground and Stone Edge Primal Groudon switch-in though, and it does have good utility in Toxic, Stealth Rock, Defog and U-Turn. Also it's probably the more consistent mon out of the all the C tiers, still finding a use in pratically any game it's in, so putting it higher does the OU legend a bit more justice I suppose.

:sableye-mega: C --> UR My opinion has not changed about this guy. Stall already runs Refresh Arceus-Dark so is there really any purpose of running Mega Sableye? Even the stall teams that run Mega Tyranitar wouldn't want this thing. A Dark-type that loses to Yveltal is also pretty pathetic, and it barely beats Marshadow too, since Choice Band Poltergeist 2HKOs, and Giratina-O can just drop a Draco Meteor on it. Just like Buzzwole, I've barely seen anyone use or discuss this thing in enough detail so I can't justify it for even C- to be honest. Well, at least it beats MMX (no it does not beat MMY it gets destroyed by +2 Ice Beam or Fire Blast).

:landorus: :skarmory:
C- --> D/UR These guys actually suck. Landorus is fast but not fast enough to truly be a threat to most teams. It struggles with 4MSS since it wants Rock Slide, Focus Blast, HP Ice, Stealth Rock, Taunt and Explosion. As an offensive hazard lead, I would just use Deoxys-A who is much more threatening in my eyes. As for Skarmory, there's not much reason to justify using over Giratina for stall teams, or even Dondozo. IronPress is not that useful or powerful in that tier and Garganacl does that better (even though its C- too), and Spikes spam isn't super important for Stall either.

:tapu-lele: C- --> C+ PsySpam is a THREAT and all the tour games should justify so. Deoxys-A, Ultra Necrozma, Basculegion, Lunala and even Zacian-C become super terrifying under Psychic Terrain which is provided by Tapu Lele, as well as it being a nuisance with Taunt and Nature's Madness, ensuring it isn't setup fodder against Zacian-C or opposing NDM. It's really popular on ladder, in tours and is generally easy to pilot, with some people even calling it braindead (which is a giga stretch but I can see why they'd say that).

:darmanitan-galar: :annihilape: :dragapult: :roaring-moon: :mewtwo: :tyranitar-mega: :terapagos: :ursaluna-bloodmoon: :slurpuff: :naganadel:

D/UR --> C-? I'm not going to get into detail but all of these guys (especially the first one!!!) have unique traits that make them somewhat viable in my eyes. I don't have the time to explain every single one in detail, and I certainly don't have the time to share replays, but this is more of a theory or idea if anything else. I'll probably make separate nominations for these guys in the future, but that depends on how the metagame shifts overall. Most of these guys come from other players using them however, such as Naganadel being used in NDUbers SSNL by 09-10a, or Ursaluna-BM being mentioned throughout the NDUbers Discord. But again, I feel like these guys are either underexplored, or I'm just being silly and ranking bad mons (probably the latter, apart from the first mon of course, gdarm is goated, gdarm my beloved).

update:
252 Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 192-228 (57.3 - 68%) -- approx. 2HKO
:kangaskhan-mega: is washed i take it back go back to D tier
 
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R8

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National Dex Leader
:landorus-therian: C --> C+ This guy is just annoying. Too annoying for C tier IMO so I'm ranking it higher. It is a great Arceus-Ground and Stone Edge Primal Groudon switch-in though, and it does have good utility in Toxic, Stealth Rock, Defog and U-Turn. Also it's probably the more consistent mon out of the all the C tiers, still finding a use in pratically any game it's in, so putting it higher does the OU legend a bit more justice I suppose.
Seconding this nomination, maybe ranking it even higher: its scarf set is both an offensive pivot and effective speed control, which are both uncommon traits in the tier, and being to throw strong EQs on a speed tier above a lot of threats such as Zacian, Eternatus, Marshadow, and boosted dd ndm is a great asset that deserves more recognition. I think i only have like 2-3 teams with lando total but i've been very impressed by what you can do with it, and i believe it definitively could have the potential to be B- if not B once the mon is more figured out.
 
I know it's a lot of drops but since VR might be updated soon I felt like sharing what I think about the metagame as a whole; note that some of these picks may be a bit biased or inaccurate, but I don't think it's super obvious (excluding the last nom of course but that's different + not a proper nom since I don't expect these guys to change anyways).

:arceus: A1 --> A3 I think putting Extreme Killer above Marshadow, one of the tier's best revenge-killers and wallbreakers, is a bit of an overstatement to how good it is. Extreme Killer I feel isn't nearly as splashable as Marshadow is, only being common on Offense to Hyper Offense structures, where I've seen it still have to compete with Arceus-Ground and Ultra Necrozma for a physical sweeper, the latter having a much easier time setting up in my experience, especially with way less reliable checks, and fitting on different types of HO structures like PsySpam and Webs compared to Extreme Killer. Of course Extreme Killer isn't bad, and you could say this is a bit of a nitpick, but I just don't think it's better than Marshadow or Ultra Necrozma.

:giratina-origin:
A-2 --> A6 Giratina-O is such a good mon right now it's insane. Although it's longevity isn't as good as Ho-Oh's, it is still such as good Defog user with great utility in Toxic, Will-O-Wisp and Thunder Wave. It has great Tera options in Poison, Steel and even Fairy to some extent, and can even afford to run Priority. Such a splashable mon too, and although it may not be fantastic at any of these traits, it's a jack-of-all-trades mon like Arceus-Ground. Compared to Arceus-Fairy, Giratina-O isn't nearly as passive against mons such as Zacian-C either due to its solid offenses or utility, and I feel like its much easier to justify using. Although, I am considering Arceus-Fairy to rise as well, but I think A-1 is good enough for it at the moment, again because Utility sets kinda struggle with 4MSS between Taunt, Toxic, Will-O-Wisp and even Earth Power, and offensive sets can feel underwhelming at times.

:palkia-origin: A-4 --> B+ I've expressed this before but I really don't like the inconsistency with this thing. Sure it's great into Bulky Offense and some Balance structures, but outside of that it gets destroyed by HO and does nothing against Stall. Having an inaccurate STAB and coverage options makes this feel like a gamble too often to justify putting this high in my opinion, especially since it faces so much competition with Eternatus, who's faster and has more reliable moves to use. It doesn't have that much defensive utility either, having barely any resistances, with the only noteworthy mons being Primal Kyogre (which can chip it significantly with Thunder) and Defensive Necrozma-DM (not sure if Substitute even lives Earthquake, and this thing is kinda mid anyways).

:mewtwo-mega-y: A-6 --> B+ This thing is so hard to build around and suffers from so much 4MSS it's insane. Sure, unscouted MMY is pretty terrifying to fight against, but it can't hit everything it wants to. Psystrike and Nasty Plot are mandatory, meaning it only has 2 moveslots for coverage. Ice Beam is necessary for Yveltal, Fire Blast is necessary for NDM and Focus Blast is necessary for Arceus-Dark, so whatever you run you're bound to get walled by something, and die/be forced out by said things. The first two options are also kinda mid into stall since Dondozo walls you then, which is pretty absurd for a special attacker, although Dondozo itself has to be careful with its HP to do so. Compared to Deoxys-A, who's seeing a massive surge in popularity because of PsySpam, notice how MMY has just... faded away. Deoxys-A is just faster and has the ability to fit all the coverage it needs into one moveslot thanks to Meteor Beam, or just nuke stuff with Life Orb + Tera Ghost Tera Blast. MMY is just underwhelming compared to Deoxys-A and it has very fringe cases where it's better such as on non-PsySpam Webs teams or Dual Screens HO.

:grimmsnarl:
B --> C+ There isn't really a reason to use Grimmsnarl over Deoxys-S in my eyes. Being unable to stop Yveltal from using Defog, especially since Defensive and Scarf Yveltal are so popular, is pretty bad. I suppose being able to get multiple screens up in one game is neat, but the Rocky Helment Deoxys-S spread can do so as well, especially against offensive teams, just like Grimmsnarl. I suppose being Dark-type is neat against PsySpam, Basculegion and Marshadow (especially since the Fairy-type helps against the latter), but these feel like niche cases rather than something to justify it being B tier.

:magearna:B- --> C Listen, I agree that Life Orb Yveltal is annoying to handle. This is not a good reason why this thing is all the way in B- though. It doesn't do anything else outside of that, that other mons can't do. The only reason I'm not putting it in D tier is because Heal Bell is neat for Fat Balance teams, and Volt Switch is still useful. But apart from that, this mon doesn't do much and I'm shocked it even stayed here after Xerneas got banned.

:smeargle:B- --> C+ I'm just gonna link this:


:buzzwole: C+ --> C- I had to ask what this thing even does that's how irrelevant it is. Apparently it checks physical attackers like Zygarde, Arceus-Ground, Extreme Killer and Marshadow, but I have never in my life seen this thing be used. I want to put it into UR but I know there must be something justifying it in C+ somehow. It also just looks... passive? I'm not sure what the standard moveset or spread is (because again I've barely seen anyone mention it let alone use it) but I have a feeling this thing just lets every special attacker in, especially if it's using Bulk Up. Also, what's wrong with using Zygarde? Is Roost THAT valuable? Is the Ground- and Fighting-resistances THAT useful to justify over Zygarde? I don't get it.

:dondozo:C+ --> B- If Giratina and Chansey can be B- for stall, why can't this thing? It's as much of a stall staple as Chansey is. It may be a bit passive but it's gargantuan bulk and Unaware more than makes up for it, vastly limiting the number of Physical mons that can somewhat break through it.

:kyurem-black: C+ --> B- This thing is seriously underrated and underestimated. Even in the tier with Primal Groudon, BoltBeam is still really strong coverage, and outside of Primal Groudon there aren't many mons that can reliably answer this thing, especially if its behind a Substitute. It smashes through Stall, does well into Fat Balance teams and can hold its own against Offense and HO teams since it is a decent switch-in to Primal Kyogre.

:mewtwo-mega-x: C+ --> C- Mewtwo can't catch a break can it? But seriously just use Marshadow or Mega Salamence for a physical attacker. Just like MMY, it struggles with 4MSS since it wants so much from Zen Headbutt, Ice Beam, Knock Off, Stone Edge, Taunt and even Poison Jab or Bulk Up, as well as it struggling to compete with NDM or Ultra Necrozma for a strong Psychic-type. There's just not enough good reasons to justify using this thing, to the point where using this thing JUST for STAB Focus Blast doesn't sound so far-fetched IMO. The only reason I'm not putting it in D tier is because I feel bad, or rather because it can be a little bit annoying to pivot around if it DOES get the coverage right, but this logic would apply to any sweeper (like Facade Mega Salamence vs a status-spam team).

:arceus-rock:C --> C+ Being a good switch-in to Yveltal, Mega Salamence and Rayquaza is pretty neat, as well as arguably being one of the most reliable Stealth Rock setters in the game being able to scare away both Ho-Oh and Defensive Yveltal from Defogging, leaving only Giratina-O to do it (another reason why it should be ranked higher). It's pretty strong too considering how solid Rock-type STAB is right now.

:landorus-therian: C --> C+ This guy is just annoying. Too annoying for C tier IMO so I'm ranking it higher. It is a great Arceus-Ground and Stone Edge Primal Groudon switch-in though, and it does have good utility in Toxic, Stealth Rock, Defog and U-Turn. Also it's probably the more consistent mon out of the all the C tiers, still finding a use in pratically any game it's in, so putting it higher does the OU legend a bit more justice I suppose.

:sableye-mega: C --> UR My opinion has not changed about this guy. Stall already runs Refresh Arceus-Dark so is there really any purpose of running Mega Sableye? Even the stall teams that run Mega Tyranitar wouldn't want this thing. A Dark-type that loses to Yveltal is also pretty pathetic, and it barely beats Marshadow too, since Choice Band Poltergeist 2HKOs, and Giratina-O can just drop a Draco Meteor on it. Just like Buzzwole, I've barely seen anyone use or discuss this thing in enough detail so I can't justify it for even C- to be honest. Well, at least it beats MMX (no it does not beat MMY it gets destroyed by +2 Ice Beam or Fire Blast).

:landorus: :skarmory:
C- --> D/UR These guys actually suck. Landorus is fast but not fast enough to truly be a threat to most teams. It struggles with 4MSS since it wants Rock Slide, Focus Blast, HP Ice, Stealth Rock, Taunt and Explosion. As an offensive hazard lead, I would just use Deoxys-A who is much more threatening in my eyes. As for Skarmory, there's not much reason to justify using over Giratina for stall teams, or even Dondozo. IronPress is not that useful or powerful in that tier and Garganacl does that better (even though its C- too), and Spikes spam isn't super important for Stall either.

:tapu-lele: C- --> C+ PsySpam is a THREAT and all the tour games should justify so. Deoxys-A, Ultra Necrozma, Basculegion, Lunala and even Zacian-C become super terrifying under Psychic Terrain which is provided by Tapu Lele, as well as it being a nuisance with Taunt and Nature's Madness, ensuring it isn't setup fodder against Zacian-C or opposing NDM. It's really popular on ladder, in tours and is generally easy to pilot, with some people even calling it braindead (which is a giga stretch but I can see why they'd say that).

:darmanitan-galar: :annihilape: :dragapult: :roaring-moon: :mewtwo: :tyranitar-mega: :terapagos: :ursaluna-bloodmoon: :slurpuff: :naganadel:

D/UR --> C-? I'm not going to get into detail but all of these guys (especially the first one!!!) have unique traits that make them somewhat viable in my eyes. I don't have the time to explain every single one in detail, and I certainly don't have the time to share replays, but this is more of a theory or idea if anything else. I'll probably make separate nominations for these guys in the future, but that depends on how the metagame shifts overall. Most of these guys come from other players using them however, such as Naganadel being used in NDUbers SSNL by 09-10a, or Ursaluna-BM being mentioned throughout the NDUbers Discord. But again, I feel like these guys are either underexplored, or I'm just being silly and ranking bad mons (probably the latter, apart from the first mon of course, gdarm is goated, gdarm my beloved).

update:
252 Atk Parental Bond Kangaskhan-Mega Sucker Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 192-228 (57.3 - 68%) -- approx. 2HKO
:kangaskhan-mega: is washed i take it back go back to D tier
Ok one last thing

:arceus-poison: C --> D This guy literally does nothing. No more Xerneas or Koraidon to check. Checking Marshadow is done better by Arceus-Fairy who actually threatens it back. Absorbing Toxic Spikes is done better by Eternatus who can set them itself. Checking Zacian-C is done better by 10 other Pokemon. Arceus-Poison simply does nothing even in the argument of "role compression" especially since it will always be passive as hell agaisnt Pokemon like Eternatus, Zygarde and Ho-Oh.
 
[/SPOILER]
S+ :groudon-primal:
S :zygarde::eternatus:
S- :yveltal::arceus-ground::ho-oh::zacian-crowned:
A+ :kyogre-primal::arceus-dark::marshadow:
A :arceus-fairy::arceus::necrozma-ultra::necrozma-dusk-mane::giratina-origin:
A- :salamence-mega::deoxys-attack::deoxys-speed::palkia-origin:
This ranking is the most sensible to me, maybe with some ordering change within subranks but it's an excellent summary of the metagame. Just put Palkia-O in B+.


:ho-oh:
I'm pleasantly surprised by how well Ho-Oh is faring now in the metagame. 252+ Adamant hits very hard considering the lack of Brave Bird switch ins in the metagame, while preserving Ho-Oh's decent natural bulk and ability to Defog. Fully defensive variants are still usable but I much prefer the offensive tank.

:necrozma-dusk-mane:
It's pretty much the only bulky Steel type in the metagame. Its insane bulk helps a ton during teambuiilding versus Zacian-C, Eternatus, Deoxys-A(!) and trades HP for Knock Off vs Ho-Oh. I also feel it is quite hard to distinguish an Ultranecrozma variant from the defensive ones on team preview. Just make sure you have something against PDon, Yveltal and Zygarde, like every team should have.


:rayquaza:
I don't think Rayquaza warrants an A- rank in viability, just like Ditto. They aren't part of the core of the metagame, and I feel there's enough difference between the current A- Pokemon and them.

:landorus-therian:
I said rise this to B- last time but now I'm not so sure anymore. Haven't checked the numbers but I feel like every PDon is carrying Overheat, and suddenly Lando-T is not even a check anymore. Still, U-Turn is something huge in the current metagame just to give your LO Yveltal, CB Marshadow, LO Deoxys-A a decent switch-in opportunity. For sure it deserves C+ though.

:excadrill:
Remove this.

:Skarmory:
Good into Ultranecrozma, but yes, remove this.


:magearna:B- --> C
:buzzwole: C+ --> C-
:dondozo:C+ --> B-
:arceus-rock:C --> C+
:sableye-mega: C --> UR
:landorus: :skarmory:C- --> D/UR
:tapu-lele: C- --> C+
I support all of these nominations, and the reasonings provided are excellent.

:darmanitan-galar: :annihilape: :dragapult: :roaring-moon: :mewtwo: :tyranitar-mega: :terapagos: :ursaluna-bloodmoon: :slurpuff: :naganadel:
D/UR --> C-?
Darmanitan-G, mayyyyybe Dragapult, Tyranitar-Mega and Slurpuff all have a niche and thus can go to C-. Keep the other ones in D/unranked, they are not worth using.

Last but not least, raise Gothitelle at least to B+, matchup fishy but S tier when facing the right team.
 
:zekrom: B+ -> B-/C+

I don't understand how this thing was ever thought of so highly. I've tried using it on multiple teams and it's horribly inconsistent and requires so much support in the teambuilder. You either get outsped by Zacian even after a Dragon Dance or are starving for power by choosing between adamant and jolly respectively. Against Groudon, the Zekrom player has to correctly read them staying in vs. switching out or they end up wasting their Z move and are left with no way of taking out Groudon. What does it even set up against? Marshadow and EKiller will almost always 2HKO with Low Kick/Earthquake into priority. Groudon, Eternatus, Calyrex-Ice, Arceus-Ground and Fairy, Kyogre, and Deoxys-Attack all run supereffective coverage that'll either OHKO or do enough that the Zekrom can be taken out with priority the following turn. Ho-Oh is hypothetically a good setup opportunity because a Zekrom vs. Ho-Oh scenario forces a 50/50 of Bolt Strike vs. Dragon Dance, but Tera Grass Ho-Oh covers both options and then can use Whirlwind or fish for a Sacred Fire burn. My opinion on Zekrom is that it requires an absurd amount of team support and good execution to function. Even when it does function perfectly, this ideal is only maybe 10% more effective than just using a more self-sufficient Dragon Dance user like Mega Salamence or Ultra Necrozma.
Additionally, the fact that it only has one viable set makes it incredibly predictable at team preview.

I also agree with all of S0A0M0I0's proposals.
 
You either get outsped by Zacian even after a Dragon Dance or are starving for power by choosing between adamant and jolly respectively.
Zekrom is primarily used on Sticky Web teams, so I'm not sure how Zacian would still outspeed +1 Adamant Zekrom. The power difference between Jolly and Adamant is only apparent against Primal Groudon with the Z-Move since many of the other calcs aren't super necessary (especially if you're already boosted), since most of the time you're using Adamant if you're using Sticky Webs. "Starving" is a bit of an overstatement in my opinion.

Against Groudon, the Zekrom player has to correctly read them staying in vs. switching out or they end up wasting their Z move and are left with no way of taking out Groudon.
This logic could also be applied to Ultra Necrozma, who unless it has more than two boosts, needs the Z-Move to reliably take out Zygarde, support Arceus formes and Ho-Oh (if not running Stone Edge). Having only one mon that can reliably check Zekrom, while still being forced to outplay definitely puts Zekrom ahead of Primal Groudon in this regard, especially since getting the predict wrong is basically game over (if it decides to setup further). This is also what Substitute is for, in case situations like these are likely, since +2 Devastating Drake always OHKOs Primal Groudon. Other Z-Move users like Arceus-Ground or the more niche Chi-Yu fall under this idea as well.

What does it even set up against? Marshadow and EKiller will almost always 2HKO with Low Kick/Earthquake into priority. Groudon, Eternatus, Calyrex-Ice, Arceus-Ground and Fairy, Kyogre, and Deoxys-Attack all run supereffective coverage that'll either OHKO or do enough that the Zekrom can be taken out with priority the following turn.
I don't get this point. You just listed a bunch of mons that have STAB super effective coverage against Zekrom. That's like saying "Zacian-C is a bad setup mon because Primal Groudon, Arceus Ground, Zygarde and Ho-Oh can OHKO it." It's a weak argument. Also Zekrom is really not that frail, and apart from the mons with priority (like why are you even setting up on Deoxys-A or Marshadow to begin with?) it only needs one boost to do its job properly, similarly to Ultra Necrozma. As for mons it can setup on, Ho-Oh, defensive Primal Kyogre and defensive Necrozma-DM are free pickings for Zekrom, as well as unboosted (or the extra niche defensive) Mega Salamence or a choice-locked Rayquaza. Of course there are passive pokemon like Alomomola, Ferrothorn and defensive Arceus-Water that Zekrom can easily setup on due to Substitute which it has over Ultra Necrozma and Mega Salamence, so it can't be revenge-killed by priority or Ditto as easily.

Ho-Oh is hypothetically a good setup opportunity because a Zekrom vs. Ho-Oh scenario forces a 50/50 of Bolt Strike vs. Dragon Dance, but Tera Grass Ho-Oh covers both options and then can use Whirlwind or fish for a Sacred Fire burn.
So forcing Ho-Oh and the entire opposing team to burn Tera just for a whirlwind or CHANCE to burn isn't worth it? Considering how Ho-Oh hasn't really threatened Zekrom apart from burn, this just leaves it vulnerable to Zekrom's teammates, like Eruption Primal Groudon. This logic could be applied to other sweepers as well. Ultra Necrozma technically loses to Tera Dark Ho-Oh, and Arceus-Ground technically loses to Tera Ground Ho-Oh as well. Using Tera as an argument on why something is bad is super wishy-washy because it can easily apply to any MU.

Even when it does function perfectly, this ideal is only maybe 10% more effective than just using a more self-sufficient Dragon Dance user like Mega Salamence or Ultra Necrozma.
Idk how you came up with 10% especially since Zekrom has notable adavantages over Ultra Necrozma and Mega Salamence. Substitute is a major one, again letting it block priority and Ditto which the other two commonly fold to. Zekrom has a better MU into stall than either of these two do since typically stall doesn't have a reliable answer into it. Dondozo gets nuked unless it teras and so does Giratina. Arceus-Dark has a chance to faint from +1 Adamant Devastating Drake, meaning you can just click Outrage into Giratina and everything else. Comapre this to Ultra Necrozma, who loses to Arceus-Dark and the more niche Covert Cloak Dondozo, and Mega Salamence which loses to Giratina in the long run, especially since Facade sets have basically 0 longevity. You could argue Zekrom has more team utility, since it can absorb Glare from Zygarde, and does a much better job dealing with Defog users than Ultra Necrozma and Mega Salamence do, the former being forced to used Stone Edge, meaning it has no chance against Arceus-Dark. Zekrom by no means is better than these two. Obviously. But it has its traits to justify using, and it isn't complete rubbish like you make it out to be.

Additionally, the fact that it only has one viable set makes it incredibly predictable at team preview.
Ultra Necrozma also has one set. "Special Attacking Ultra Necrozma" is irrelevant because that doesn't have anything to do with this Dragon Dance argument, as well as being pretty medicore in general.

:zekrom: B+ --> B

Although I do somewhat agree Zekrom should drop, saying it is B- or C+ material is such a massive overstatement. I highly doubt Zekrom is the same level as Arceus-Dragon and Mega Mewtwo X, while being below Pheromosa of all things. It is difficult to use and it can feel a bit inconsistent, especially since Bolt Strike has pretty bad accuracy, but it's excellent stall matchup and solid matchup into Fat Balance and slower teams alike should prove otherwise, that this thing is B tier material, not B- or C+.
 
Zekrom is primarily used on Sticky Web teams,
Shouldn't this be a knock against its viability? Sticky Web teams are inherently unreliable and Zekrom has the capacity to underperform both on and off webs teams. The two webs setters in the meta are both in B-. Giratina-Altered shares the trait of being amazing on one single playstyle and not consistent enough on any others to be considered widely usable and it's also in B-.

that Zekrom can easily setup on due to Substitute which it has over Ultra Necrozma and Mega Salamence
Salamence has substitute and can viably run it. Sub can let Salamence block status and possibly get 2 Dragon Dance boosts against Groudon by fishing for Stone Edge misses. It turns Ho-Oh into an even better setup opportunity if they're taunted or aren't running Whirlwind.

dk how you came up with 10% especially since Zekrom has notable adavantages over Ultra Necrozma and Mega Salamence. Substitute is a major one, again letting it block priority and Ditto which the other two commonly fold to.
The "10% more effective under ideal circumstances" thing was just me trying to articulate that I think Zekrom won't perform better than either of those two in most games and in the rare case that it does, the relative performance is barely greater than what the other two can do game-to-game. On webs teams, it's not even absolutely better than Salamence. Zekrom has the ability to OHKO Ho-Oh and Groudon after a DD at the cost of switching in on less, having fewer setup opportunities, and being OHKOd by the litany of ground attacks in the tier. On webs teams it's a sidegrade, not a must-have, and I don't think that warrants its current place on the VR or even B tier.

Before reading your response, I was under the impression that the only Zekrom moveset used was DD/Bolt Strike/Outrage/Dragon Claw. Swapping out either of the latter two for Substitute produces issues and can compromise its ability to sweep. Dropping Outrage means its Z move won't hit the ranges it needs on Groudon or other bulky targets like Arceus or Calyrex-Ice. Dropping Dragon Claw means you need to lock into Outrage to beat ground types, which is exploitable with a timely tera Steel or Fairy or a switch into Zacian, NDM, or Arceus-Fairy (see replay 1).

Ultra Necrozma also has one set. "Special Attacking Ultra Necrozma" is irrelevant because that doesn't have anything to do with this Dragon Dance argument, as well as being pretty medicore in general.
I specifically said "at team preview". You aren't seeing Ultra Necrozma at team preview; you're seeing Necrozma-Dusk Mane which has at least 5 viable sets that have different roles and counterplay. NDM in against Marshadow can set Trick Room, click Dragon Dance, click Knock Off or Thunder Wave, Ultra Burst and click Photon Geyser, etc. Hedging your bets is a lot more difficult against something with high moveset variety. Against a Zekrom, you know it's going to click one of five moves (counting Devastating Drake), and you can reasonably rule out 2-4 of them on a given turn. Ultra Necrozma is similar after revealing itself, but has the power necessary to justify this downside (alongside keeping a degree of unpredictability with its unrevealed third attacking move).

I see the value in all your other points though. C+ was too harsh of an evaluation on my end, but I stand by B-.

From earlier today with a team I made
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2137581303-ybxgdyc4myzirr404wic2i74t1a4zh4pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2137584652-ymc8151pupsq857rrewbfjs39zxjl3bpw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2137588048
 
Shouldn't this be a knock against its viability? Sticky Web teams are inherently unreliable and Zekrom has the capacity to underperform both on and off webs teams.
Actually, I don't think Sticky Web teams are that unreliable. Between Shuckle being extremely consistent at setting them up, so many pokemon that you would use on Sticky Web teams just being really good in general, and the tier being so fast paced that it is hard to remove hazards without losing significant momentum, I'd say that Sticky Web teams are fairly reliable.
 

bumboclaat

Primal Groudon used Overheat
is a Pre-Contributor
Not going to comment on the Zekrom stuff since I have a post already written talking about my votes for the upcoming update and I'm not sure what constitutes a leak so I'd rather err on the side of caution.

If anything webs are less consistent than they've ever been and the Xerneas ban is the main reason why. Defogging webs was significantly more difficult during that era as you'd frequently have to choose between removing the webs or dealing with Xerneas and rarely would be able to do both at the same time against a competent player, even if you used Ho-Oh.

I don't think webs are bad, but they are inconsistent due to how it is reasonable to semi reliably remove webs without seriously risking the game regardless of what hazard removal you go with. I also don't really find the pace of the game to be super fast either.

Salamence has substitute and can viably run it. Sub can let Salamence block status and possibly get 2 Dragon Dance boosts against Groudon by fishing for Stone Edge misses. It turns Ho-Oh into an even better setup opportunity if they're taunted or aren't running Whirlwind.
This made me chuckle. Why would you run this over Facade or Refresh?

Before reading your response, I was under the impression that the only Zekrom moveset used was DD/Bolt Strike/Outrage/Dragon Claw. Swapping out either of the latter two for Substitute produces issues and can compromise its ability to sweep. Dropping Outrage means its Z move won't hit the ranges it needs on Groudon or other bulky targets like Arceus or Calyrex-Ice. Dropping Dragon Claw means you need to lock into Outrage to beat ground types, which is exploitable with a timely tera Steel or Fairy or a switch into Zacian, NDM, or Arceus-Fairy (see replay 1).
To begin with that you're playing a webs team with Giratina-O already makes this a pretty poor replay. I also don't get why you would Outrage over getting a second DD since you're already behind a sub then go and sack Primal Kyogre when you have a fully healthy Primal Groudon (that is stone edge/ blades / overheat / eruption for some reason?) to scare out or knock out the Zacian-C that can't tera.
 
This whole webs debacle has made me realize a few things.
1. Zekrom is at B+, while both web setters are at B-.
2. Shuckle is the same tier as Smeargle, despite Shuckle being far, far, far far, far better than Smeargle. Which brings me to the main focus of this post:

Smeargle: B- -> C/C-
Smeargle being able to threaten para and put down rocks even against Taunt is nice, but it is nothing compared to being able to very reliably put down webs, which is your entire game plan. Getting webs removed after you KO like three of your opponents pokemon is, depending on your team, very manageable, but not getting it up at all puts you at an immediate disadvantage, and one that will usually decide a game turn one. Being able to paralyze one pokemon and always put rocks down matters not when your entire game plan is out the window. The most important thing a webs lead must be able to do is put down the webs, and if your opponent has Taunt, you can't do that. Shuckle is obviously the GOAT when it comes to reliably putting down webs, but even Slurpuff is leagues better at reliably getting webs down. Everything Smeargle has going for it is almost irrelevant because it can't put up webs against Taunt. I barely see the argument for it being better than Slurpuff, and in no world is it on par with Shuckle.
 

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