Resource National Dex Ubers Viability Rankings [Update #8 at post 301!]

[bumboclaat]

Noms

A+[5]->A[1] - I've been thinking about it for the last couple of months and whilst certainly still has a ceiling consistent with what I perceive to to be an A+ mon it has enough issues that it is more at home in A. I don't hold taking up a mega slot against it as you seldom want a second mega alongside anyways. It is fantastic on HO, but I'm not quite sure I'd describe it as a staple. It is decent at best to middling off of HO. The bulk is decent, but deceptively high as more often than not it is starting from 75%. Furthermore, also has uncharacteristically severe 4MSS for an A+ rank mon. It wants all of facade, return, double edge, earthquake, roost, and even refresh or defog. Without facade it has a hard time breaking through bulkier builds yet alone stall and finds its switch-in opportunities to be more limited. You can drop roost for facade, but then requires a lot of precision in getting on the field as it does not tend to find itself on teams with robust hazard removal if any at all. All of the moves it can viably run face a similar conundrum. 's. fourth moveslot, for example, is relatively free and can be tailored to what best suits its team. That being said, a which has not revealed its moves is one of the scariest mons in the tier and I wouldn't be shocked if I viewed it as an A+ mon in the future, I just don't at the moment.

A[4] -> A+ [4] - Getting the obvious out of the way: has literally almost zero defensive utility. survives a surprising number of attacks from full such as blades from defensive and any unboosted attack from offensive . It isn't much, but it also isn't nothing, which is more credit than I've given it in the past. in a lot of ways is the gatekeeper of viability for mons. That standard and ev specifically to live sneak from full already says a lot even though this is wasted if hazards are up or if just decides to

. There are a lot of teams I've scrapped that are otherwise decent solely because they are too weak. It is a menace into every playstyle that is rarely ever going to be deadweight as long as you don't handicap it with a .

Outside of nothing is really comfortable switching into bar non standard stuff like .. is also fairly splashable in spite of its lack of defensive utility. At a minimum should rise and wherever it ends up it should probably be one spot above . You can also run adamant and will probably get punished surprisingly infrequently.

A[3] -> A[5]/A-[1] - I am quite low on offensive sets. I've tried building a few teams based around it but always just ended up wanting to use a different which defeats the point of building around . However, some teams just need what offers defensively. We don't really have other good defensive fairies. has defensive sets, but those are far from splashable and lock you out of using broken geomancy. provides the switchin that you've likely turned to for, but is restricted to fat balance structures and is absolute dogshit v nearly anything other than or .

is an absolute menace to nearly everything slower than it and is the closest thing that most balance teams teams are going to find to a consistent switch-in. It can still get pressured into recover loops as wing is a 3hko regardless of investment, but it does the job well enough. I'm not a fan of the dex spread as support generally doesn't want to be risking being locked out of recover on a presumed switch. is also one of our better rockers due to drawing in as it sets up rocks and can keep them up with taunt and welcomes a burn from sacred fire compared to toxic or paralysis. Additionally, it naturally matches up well with /.

is something I've enjoyed using recently since it rarely needs to tera and it shores up the in a pinch since you're locked out of using .

A-[4] -> B+ - A+ on paper B/B+ in game. It is a fast mon that is outsped by, scared of, and loses to most of the other fast mons. It is close to if not deadweight v stall. Against HO it is usually at best trading v one mon. It is demon in the balance matchup, but it is still prediction reliant before getting to the issue of all of its moves having a chance to miss. This is a significant issue when is rarely going to be hitting the field more than twice due to vulnerability to every hazard, lack of any recovery, and its typing not giving it any entry points against offensive mons bar . It is not a bad mon and does have a lot of teams that it absolutely goobs, but it is too inconsistent to remain in A-.

B+ -> A-[6] - should be the delineating line between the A and B ranks. It is decently splashable between set on HO and sets on BO and balance structures. This nom is mostly on the back of the sets. sets are good, but are not enough to push to A- by themselves. 95 speed is a fantastic speed tier, only really missing out on timid which it can still trade with. outspeeds nearly the entire defensive meta and can hit everything with just Dragon Ascent and V-Create. Espeed can pick off weakened targets and provides value v HO. U-turn makes an incredibly rare source of momentum in this tier.

Dragon Ascent absolutely sends fat and stall packing as well. These are all known. What pushes from B+ -> A- for me is that it doesn't really require the level of support nor is it a complete defensive deadweight of the typical breaker you'd find in B+. It likes defog support which is not particularly difficult to come by in NDUbers. At the same time it isn't deadweight if rocks are up as it doesn't tend to take many hits in the first place so it can generally manage taking rocks a couple times and still do its job.

B+ -> B-/C+ - It is largely outclassed by as a screens lead. is so fast that its taunt may as well be a buffed version of prankster since it isn't blocked by dark types. Taunting opposing leads is a gamble due magic coat. It doesn't even reliably prevent webs as is the premier setter. still does have some matchups where it can do its thing, but as a whole it has fallen off pretty hard.

B+ -> C - There isn't anything I can say that S0A0M0I0 hasn't said above. That is a great post. Everything about the mon can be summed up as just not enough. It just isn't speedy enough, it just doesn't hit hard enough, ect. If it were solely up to me it would be D rank but that is likely too extreme for one slate. Initially I thought well we have some real garbage in the C ranks but looking at them again they're all better than .

B -> B+ -I'm disappointing R8 by nomming it B+ instead of A-. More seriously, I'm kind of on the fence on whether it is A-. It has just a tad to many matchups for to rise to A- for me though I wouldn't be opposed. Also I'd be quite happy to see shadow tag banned. isn't broken, but its presence in the meta, builder, and the games where it actually shows up is unhealthy enough that I'd be happy to see it go.

B -> B+ - Similar to this nom is purely off the set. OTR is decent but not B+. Really the only reason you're not clicking lance is if defensive / support is on the other side of the field, to preserve pp v stall, or to use trick v stall. The other two slots are quite flexible. Trick and aromatherapy are my two perferred options though seed bomb and leech seed are decent options as well. The typing is mediocre, but the sheer bulk means that you can count the moves that OHKO it on your hands generally letting you trade for something in games where seems useless. Having a cleric also enables creative structures and provides longevity to standard ones that they otherwise wouldn't have. The tera is also flexible, I'm not a fan of

outside of full TR.

is my preference but as long as there is a proper reason for it any tera will work. Its rocks weakness holds it back from A-. Unlike the rocks weakness really hinders as it leverages its bulk to get attacks off and this can lead to some awkward choice or sequences in game. Sure you can run but then it is a significantly worse breaker.

B -> B- - It is a webs only mon that isn't even close to mandatory on webs. It feels more C+ personally, but I wouldn't drop so B- is fine for now.

B- -> B - Really should just be swapping places with or at least be a subrank above it if webs as a whole is voted to drop. Guaranteeing those webs go up against taunt leads is more valuable than the extra utility provided by

B -> B-/C+ - See section. It won't be me but perhaps imprison would be worth experimenting with?

C+ -> B/B- - It is near, if not mandatory on stall and stall decent right now. I've never seen a good team with that wasn't stall so should be the same rank. Even then the new sample uses over so maybe should be the representative of stall?

C -> B/B- - Pretty much the same as . Some stalls have managed to drop but they are few and far inbetween. It could be one subrank lower.

C -> C+ - It is viable if seldom used as an alternative to on stall. exists. If stall in generall deserves a rise so does to reflect that even if it is generally inferior to .

C -> C+- It works often enough to be C+. Still a very flawed mon, but it has enough good matchups. If it doesn;t rise should drop. I'd rate above , but I'm not sure if it deserves a whole subrank higher.

C -> D - Last slate the TR mons were unranked and should have gone with them. It is unviable outside of TR and the teams I've seen that attempt to prove otherwise are unconvincing. It also isn't the best mon on TR anymore, that would go to . If TR is ranked, keep ranked, otherwise drop it.

UR -> B- - R8 has made me a believer in its viability. I can link replays but others in the thread already have so I'm not sure those are needed. The structures it enables are interesting and certainly will be further explored in the future. I'm a believer in fat balance structures. It does what I've always seen / try and fail to do.

UR -> C - As far as I'm aware SandwichLover is currently in the process of making a nomination themselves so i'll leave that to him. He has been one of the main driving factors behind developing psyspam to its current state and deserves credit among some others. is a standin for psyspam which is 'new' in the grand scheme of things. It has existed to some degree in the past but its current iteration is more 'real' compared to past attempts which were ladder cheese that matchup fished at best. C is a conservative ranking for now though I think C+ would be fine as well. It has B/B- potential in my eyes but I'd perfer to wait and see how the meta adapts and psyspam can adapt back. Frankly, I'd rate psyspam higher than screens currently.

Stray Thoughts / Discussion Points - These are not proper noms, but just some things I'd like others to see how others view

S/S- ranks: Currently I think you could make an argument for everything and above to be at least S-. Mine would be:
S =
S- :

is somewhere between S and S- for me. All in all it does make S/S- feel a bit overpopulated but at the same time there is, at least in my eyes, a gap between and that is distinct but enough to be worth a full subrank.

<-> - These two mons are pretty much even in my eyes. They each have advantages and drawbacks over each other that even out in the grand scheme of things. I'm wondering how y'all view it? I'd be fine with them swapping places or remaining the same and don't feel strongly enoughone way or the other to make a nom.

- It is still definitely a B+ tier mon on the teams it fits on, but that latter part is pretty important. Initially I had nommed from B+ -> B since it feels a bit too constricting to build with for a B+ mon but thought it would be better to ask for others perspectives as I may be influenced by my building and playstyle preferences. feels ok enough at B and that is less flexible than in terms of the teams it fits on though I'd be fine w/ it in B-.

- Is locking yourself out of and enough to keep it out of B+? is one of those mons that will always have less usage than viability. It is a threat when it shows up. It doesn't really worsen the / issues has since it would be replacing a mon that already loses to them

- Is it consistent enough to be A-?

 

[cfdu1202]

Wonderful post as always bumboclaat.

A+[5]->A[1]

You already know what I think of this mon, I think a lot of Zygarde-less teams are unprepared against it and that it can be used as well on various offenses not just HO.

A[4] -> A+ [4]

Ehhh not sure, at least when I see the current A+ Pokemon I just don't think it is on the same level, like below the likes of Yveltal, Arceus-Dark or POgre. CB is very good but very hard to use correctly, while LO sets have little longevity and don't have the extra power that CB provides, and Marsh needs all the power it can get (that's why, as you mentioned, Adamant can be an option). I love BU Marshadium Z sets but the Snadow Sneak is a bit weak without a boost. In general, things in A+ don't have as many flaws as Marshadow and covers a wide range of the metagame with both their near unwallable attacks, their defensive profile, and the ability to make progress in any given situation. Marshadow has a bit of all (counting priority and checking Extremekiller as defensive profile), but to a lesser degree than the others.

A[3] -> A[5]/A-[1]

Bring this to the bottom of A-, it has issues against the whole metagame and on practice isn't checking the things that it is supposed to, because you will get into those switch-in -> Recover -> switch-out cycles.

A-[4] -> B+

Agree. I think mixed sets are underexplored, though.

B+ -> A-[6]

Neutral. For example, I think Calyrex-I is easier to build around, and surprisingly never dead weight either, because its bulk lets it at least trade 1-for-1. Rayquaza is more like very high risk - decently high reward. It does well into PDon which is a big plus, however. Not sure if it's consistent enough to warrant A-.

B+ -> B-/C+

Agree, to B-. C+ is too large of a drop imo, screens is (or feels) better.

B+ -> C

OK this large drop is deserved.

B -> B+

It is a demon, agree. Not A material as it can be dead weight in some match ups.

B -> B+

I was going to nom it myself, this is a monster in trading. Gets the 1v1 vs PDon, tanks most Unecro hits, and Tera makes it an incredible hard-hitting tank.

Neutral on everything else. B- for Alolomola seems very high, too high imo. Psyspam (Lele + Deoxys-A) really should be ranked. Best counterplay to Deoxys-A is priority and it is a headache to face under psychic terrain.

S/S- ranks: Currently I think you could make an argument for everything and above to be at least S-. Mine would be:
S =
S- :

The S rank starts to feel a little bit crowded. IMO PDon is S+, then Zygarde, Eternatus, Ho-Oh in S, then Xerneas, Zacian-C and Arceus-Ground in S-. POgre can remain top of A+. I don't think the latter two are as metagame warping as the others, and I personally don't like putting too many things in S rank, which should be quite restrictive and reserved for Pokemon with little flaws. I can agree with the rise of Ho-Oh to the bottom of S, as I found myself lately building every team with Ho-Oh, and trying to give Defog to other Pokemon such as defensive Yveltal, Giratina-O means that you need two slots to do what Ho-Oh does due to Ho-Oh's unique defensive profile.

<->

They play different roles despite being both Dark types, unless you use defensive Yveltal. I find Yveltal's unpredictability with LO, Specs, Band, Physical Hone Claw sets, and the utility of Knock Off and Sucker Punch better, though.

 

[bumboclaat]

Wonderful post as always bumboclaat.


You already know what I think of this mon, I think a lot of Zygarde-less teams are unprepared against it and that it can be used as well on various offenses not just HO.


Ehhh not sure, at least when I see the current A+ Pokemon I just don't think it is on the same level, like below the likes of Yveltal, Arceus-Dark or POgre. CB is very good but very hard to use correctly, while LO sets have little longevity and don't have the extra power that CB provides, and Marsh needs all the power it can get (that's why, as you mentioned, Adamant can be an option). I love BU Marshadium Z sets but the Snadow Sneak is a bit weak without a boost. In general, things in A+ don't have enough flaws as Marshadow and covers a wide range of the metagame with both their near unwallable attacks, their defensive profile, and the ability to make progress in any given situation. Marshadow has a bit of all (counting priority and checking Extremekiller as defensive profile), but to a lesser degree than the others.


Bring this to the bottom of A-, it has issues against the whole metagame and on practice isn't checking the things that it is supposed to, because you will get into those switch-in -> Recover -> switch-out cycles.


Agree. I think mixed sets are underexplored, though.


Neutral. For example, I think Calyrex-I is easier to build around, and surprisingly never dead weight either, because its bulk lets it at least trade 1-for-1. Rayquaza is more like very high risk - decently high reward. It does well into PDon which is a big plus, however. Not sure if it's consistent enough to warrant A-.


Agree, to B-. C+ is too large of a drop imo, screens is (or feels) better.


OK this large drop is deserved.


It is a demon, agree. Not A material as it can be dead weight in some match ups.


I was going to nom it myself, this is a monster in trading. Gets the 1v1 vs PDon, tanks most Unecro hits, and Tera makes it an incredible hard-hitting tank.

Neutral on everything else. B- for Alolomola seems very high, too high imo. Psyspam (Lele + Deoxys-A) really should be ranked. Best counterplay to Deoxys-A is priority and it is a headache to face under psychic terrain.


The S rank starts to feel a little bit crowded. IMO PDon is S+, then Zygarde, Eternatus, Ho-Oh in S, then Xerneas, Zacian-C and Arceus-Ground in S-. POgre can remain top of A+. I don't think the latter two are as metagame warping as the others, and I personally don't like putting too many things in S rank, which should be quite restrictive and reserved for Pokemon with little flaws. I can agree with the rise of Ho-Oh to the bottom of S, as I found myself lately building every team with Ho-Oh, and trying to give Defog to other Pokemon such as defensive Yveltal, Giratina-O means that you need two slots to do what Ho-Oh does due to Ho-Oh's unique defensive profile.


They play different roles despite being both Dark types, unless you use defensive Yveltal. I find Yveltal's unpredictability with LO, Specs, Band, Physical Hone Claw sets, and the utility of Knock Off and Sucker Punch better, though.

Thanks for the thorough reply as always. It always great to get other perspectives, particularly when they're well reasoned.

You already know what I think of this mon, I think a lot of Zygarde-less teams are unprepared against it and that it can be used as well on various offenses not just HO.

Yeah I am aware, though this isn't a big drop, just one spot really. Don't disagree with your reasoning, just if I'm building w/ it is often because I want to use it rather than because it fills a role I need on a team. At least for BOs. Some people are just not great with some mons and may be one of those for me. I don't think there is a large gulf in how we view the mon.

Ehhh not sure, at least when I see the current A+ Pokemon I just don't think it is on the same level, like below the likes of Yveltal, Arceus-Dark or POgre. CB is very good but very hard to use correctly, while LO sets have little longevity and don't have the extra power that CB provides, and Marsh needs all the power it can get (that's why, as you mentioned, Adamant can be an option). I love BU Marshadium Z sets but the Snadow Sneak is a bit weak without a boost. In general, things in A+ don't have enough flaws as Marshadow and covers a wide range of the metagame with both their near unwallable attacks, their defensive profile, and the ability to make progress in any given situation. Marshadow has a bit of all (counting priority and checking Extremekiller as defensive profile), but to a lesser degree than the others.

I like BU but am not a fan of BU Z largely for the reasons you've mentioned. The strong shadow sneak is a huge part of what makes as good as it is. Whether you think is A+ worthy depends on whether you think it is impactful enough offensively despite its near non existent defensive utility.

I don't recall who said it, but someone said if you are not running HO you need one of . I don't agree with that, but it isn't far from the truth. If you arn't running one of those three you really tend to struggle against some threats such as and have to deal with them through a defensive tera. A mon can be A+ or even higher with minimal defensive utility. It probably seems silly at a first, but is S rank and it really has close to no defensive utility. Sure defensive sets exist and are decent on the right team, but they don't play a role in that VR spot. Sure has great typing and natural bulk, but it is rarely using those traits to switch in. It uses them to tank a hit and set up.

Furthermore, if can be A+ rank can be if you think it is offensively threatening enough. It isn't as though is some bastion of defensive utility, it mostly starts and ends at switching into if rocks are not up. Defog sets are alright, but they arn't why is A+.

Bring this to the bottom of A-, it has issues against the whole metagame and on practice isn't checking the things that it is supposed to, because you will get into those switch-in -> Recover -> switch-out cycles.

I wouldn't be opposed to it being lower than I've nommed it but I think the bottom of A- is a bit much for me. What changed things for me was that I stopped caring that loses to ect. The issues it has arn't really more signifcan't than the other mons in A- (i.e. bulding a team that isn't very weak to and having your fast mon outspeed and OHKOd by ). Having a defensive fairy and a mon that actually keeps hazards up v in a tier where hazards a very easy to remove is quite valuable on top of an actual dark switchin is quite nice. The recover loops can definitely be an issue though. Rocks / Taunt / Judgement / Recover is the set that changed my mind on it. I'm aware that sounds odd given that I'm nomming for a drop, but otherwise I'd have nommed it lower.

Neutral. For example, I think Calyrex-I is easier to build around, and surprisingly never dead weight either, because its bulk lets it at least trade 1-for-1. Rayquaza is more like very high risk - decently high reward. It does well into PDon which is a big plus, however. Not sure if it's consistent enough to warrant A-.

I don't think it is particularly high risk but generally is not great into ho. A big reason for the nom is how just absolutely melts fat. ice is decent against fat, but getting the trick off and leveraging that is a lot more precise than just nuking shit with dragon ascent.

Agree, to B-. C+ is too large of a drop imo, screens is (or feels) better.

This isn't screens as a whole but screens specifically. is a better screens setter in my experience. It gets screens up v in the mirror anyways due to magic coat and has the same issues that does. is better if there is not a dark type on the other side of the field though.

I was going to nom it myself, this is a monster in trading. Gets the 1v1 vs PDon, tanks most Unecro hits, and Tera makes it an incredible hard-hitting tank.

doesn't take stone edge particuarly well but other than that I agree. Unfortunately for overheat usage is climbing a bit (should be the default option on defensive imo but that is for another time) but yeah it is 3hko'd by heat crash so that is always a nice trade. The biggest reason I didn't nom it for A- is that it is too often tera reliant to do more than trade. Though in most games it will at least trade and is rarely deadweight. There are just going to be a lot of games where it is more important to tera something other than . There are few better feelings than teraing and claiming 3-4 KOs though.

Neutral on everything else. B- for Alolomola seems very high, too high imo. Psyspam (Lele + Deoxys-A) really should be ranked. Best counterplay to Deoxys-A is priority and it is a headache to face under psychic terrain.

It would be worth looking at some replays from NDFL if you havn't because it was used a decent amount there. fat balance is sort of its own archetype that is pretty cool and unique. with longevity is scary among other things. It is how using wish / on a fat balance goes in your head but actually works in game. If B- is a bit high I really can't put it lower than C+ currently.

The VR hasn't been updated since November so I don't have an issue with not currently on it. I'm interested to see if psy terrain becomes a legit form of HO or is just a fleeting trend. Time will tell.

The S rank starts to feel a little bit crowded. IMO PDon is S+, then Zygarde, Eternatus, Ho-Oh in S, then Xerneas, Zacian-C and Arceus-Ground in S-. POgre can remain top of A+. I don't think the latter two are as metagame warping as the others, and I personally don't like putting too many things in S rank, which should be quite restrictive and reserved for Pokemon with little flaws. I can agree with the rise of Ho-Oh to the bottom of S, as I found myself lately building every team with Ho-Oh, and trying to give Defog to other Pokemon such as defensive Yveltal, Giratina-O means that you need two slots to do what Ho-Oh does due to Ho-Oh's unique defensive profile.

Yeah this is sort of the issue I have personally. There is a gap between to then . Can't really have S-- or A++. has frankly been feeling more like an A+ mon to me the last couple of weeks. Agreed on point. Drop and becomes a headache and a half to account for to put it mildly. The other stuff checks is managable in structures. Hopefully the problem is a short term one.

They play different roles despite being both Dark types, unless you use defensive Yveltal. I find Yveltal's unpredictability with LO, Specs, Band, Physical Hone Claw sets, and the utility of Knock Off and Sucker Punch better, though.

If you wouldn't mind dropping the hone claws set I'd love to see it as I've never heard of it. I find to be cheese but are legit. Everytime I consider sucker punch I just end up using . It is already an ironclad asnwer since it doesn't need to tera due to stone edge or play sucker punch mindgames. Locking yourself out of other forms does suck, but is unique in the way it functions.

Thanks again for your reply and I hope your suspect runs are going well if you decide to participate!

 

[BananaTimeZ]

woohoo unfuuny's VR

S+
- Primal Groudon is still plenty strong in the current metagame, very versatile, I don't see this mon getting a shared S+ spot or dropping from here anytime soon

S
- Xerneas is definitely one of the best pokemon right now, all teams need a check or two to handle it, though I don't think PDon and Xern can be buddy buddy in S+ even now, as pdon is mandatory on almost every team.
- Ho-oh feels very good to use, blanket wall to many special attackers who all need to keep it in mind, be it whirlwind or toxic.
- Zygarde-100% is definitely one of if not the best physical wall rn, and with coil it can turn a walling game in an opportunity to sweep. even without investment and DD it can do its job of tanking every single physical attack.

S-
- Eternatus is in my opinion not an S tier proper, while its very versatile it feels weird to use at times.
- Arceus-Ground is very nice and versatile, one of the most consistent offensive counters to PDon and you never know if its rocks defensive, cm or dd. Though it has a lot of competition from other grounds that feel better to use.
- Yveltal in S-, beeg hot take but I think this mon is harder to wall than the VR lets on. It can goob ho oh with a lucky flinch or a toxic from defensive, it can funny xerneas with taunt, or it can even smack zacian with a scarf foul play set.


A+
- Zacian feels very strange, its definitely very good but it's pretty reliant on tera to do it's job while the mons above it can definitely do without tera, or do more with their tera.
- Kyogre Primal
- Arceus Dark
- Necrozma Ultra

A
- Marshadow
- Mega Salamence is definitely very strong, but it suffers a ton from 4 moveslot syndrome. no roost means youre goobed by sr and no eq/facade means you are more easily walled by certain pokemon.
- Arceus Bald
- Necrozma Dusk got a lot more stronger with the revelation of ddance. it kept being shoved in a defensive role it wasnt all too valuable in as ho-oh and zygod did its job better, but with ddance it can act as a bulky sweeper with a zmove that blasts past almost everything.

A-
- Mega Mewtwo Y
- Deoxys Attack
- Giratina Origin
- Arceus Fairy is very nice on certain teams, but stands in Darkeus' shadow in a lot of things in my opinion. It does rock very good thank you for your service fairyceus


B+
- Rayquaza
- Palkia Origin is very strong and fast, and very good if you are a professional gambler because holy crap every move this mon runs misses when you don't want it to miss.
- Arceus Water has similar issues as fairyceus, even more so as it can deal no damage to groudon primal and with the split choice of willo/toxic it has to choose between being entirely useless to pdon or chipping it.
- Arceus Poison
- Gothitelle hehe i love this mon, definitely better than b- as it can just goob 2 S tier mons and depending on the set, tier king Pdon. though its just fodder against HO and can at most prevent a ddance unecro from becoming too quirked up.
- Lunala with the meteor beam very annoying.
- Glimmora feels like the best HO lead atm, it can almost always get a spiki/sr off and if not, itll be able to poison an arceus and reduce it's longevity, or get off a tspike.

B
- Ditto
- Shuckle is much better than smeargle imo, the ability to set up rocks/webs while guaranteeing to both live a hit and prevent taunt is much more valuable than the utility smeargle brings. While webs are ok theyre not as valuable as they can be.
- Deoxys Speed, while versatile wants to do more than it can. it is definitely better than smeargle tho.
- Giratina Altered
- Arceus Ghost
- Calyrex Ice is like the thing that gives trick room like a semblance of a niche, it's definitely not amazing because ice type is still balls.

B-
- Chansey
- Arceus Dragon
- Ferrothorn sure does stuff, but with focus blast xerneas being more and more common, it cant really do its job properly.
- Alomomola is certainly a fish, and wow does it toxic. I think regenerator cores are very strong, and mola/ho-oh does that job the best, even though im a slowbro believer.
- Zekrom feels very wacky, electric dragon is cool but with grounds being this common and dragon claw being an 80 bp move it doesnt really deal the damage it wants to do.


C+
- Smeargle what if we made a deo-s that was prediction reliant lol
- Mega Lucario kinda weird, webs has seen better times imo and mlucario isnt even that important of a member on it.
- Arceus Flying
- Diancie Mega is funny, but when you lose to rocks pdon thats kinda stupid.
- Tapu lele psyspam is pretty decent, though kinda goobed by everything dark type
- Magearna
- Garganacl is a nasty mf with tera lol
- Dondozo

C

- Mega Mewtwo X
- Blissey
- Mega Tyranitar is aight, the chip and knock is nice
- Mega Sableye
- Arceus Steel
- Kyurem Black
- Pheromosa is definitely ok and like one of the only spinners around, but with how common priority is rn, feels kinda clunky.
- Grimmsnarl will win you the lead matchup (if they dont have mental herb or magic coat, which all of them have) and screens are mid
- Flutter Mane certainly does something after koraidon got banned

C-
- Mega Venusaur funny xerneas gif.
- Mega Slowbro funny teleport magic coat counter funnery.
- Trick room is one of the strategies ever, and it certainly is a thing you can do in nduber
- Mega Latios funny flip turn future sight
- Dialga
- Arceus Rock
- Arceus Grass
- Excadrill
- Landorus Incarnate
- Landorus-Therian does have a niche as a lead mon with intimidate, and with earth power it deals more damage to Pdon and deny glim spikis
- Toxapex
- Kingambit can occasionally really whack a weakened team, emphasis on occasionally



D
THE REST


Here's the tierlist: https://tiermaker.com/create/natdex-ubers-vr-15606072

 

[Sami]

sami personal VR cuz everyone likes doing that for some reason and I haven't done one yet so lol

S+:
Well obviously.
S:
Honestly, it's the only mon in the tier that COULD be S+ with Primal Groudon, but it's still not there yet. I put it above Zygarde and Xerneas because those two don't have the set versatility that Eternatus does, or even the moveset versatility, like there are loads of things Eternatus can do and it's kinda hard not to get value of defensively or offensively on a team, while also not presenting any major weakness unlike other pokemon, overall just great glue like Primal Groudon except not as good as Primal Groudon.
I've already discussed why Xerneas is ridiculously overpowered so I won't get into it here but as long as you play right it really isn't hard to setup and get at least one KO with this thing. Its almost perfect offensively IMO, as well as having somewhat decent defensive utility being able to pseudo-check pokemon like Marshadow despite it being a purely offensive mon.
Amazing wall and setup wincon. IMO it doesn't feel banworthy at least not with Xerneas still around but it has a lot of power with Glare and Coil combined with Thousand Arrows (that move is OP btw). Trapper sets with Thousand Waves and Dragon Dance sets are also pretty cool but I don't like them as much because they sacrifice the defensive utility that coil provides, but they're still cool regardless.
S-:
Great glue mon, good bulk on both sides, great utility in status and phasing. Although not gonna lie it feels like most of the top tier mons have ways of abusing or just OHKOing Ho-Oh on the spot which is kinda weird but it's still really good.
Tera Blast Ground sets are kinda busted even if its a huge tera hog, while the typical Close Combat sets are still really solid.
Not a fan of the Defensive Utility sets but the Calm Mind or Dragon Dance sets have swept me more times than I can count. They're also pretty hard to revenge kill unlike Arceus-Ghost.

A+:
Forces switches against everything that isn't Chansey, Blissey or Ferrothorn. Defensive Calm Mind is hard to revenge kill while Wallbreaker Water Spout sets blow holes through fat balance like crazy.
Both the Defensive Foul Play sets and the Life Orb Offensive sets are really powerful and have good longevity. It's a solid revenge killer with Sucker Punch too, while having good utility in Taunt or Toxic. Even Choice Scarf sets are cool.
Ok so lets take Defensive Yveltal and make it better.
Easily the best revenge killer in the tier. Hits everything for neutral damage at least, and can actually tank some hits despite its frailty, unless you're Life Orb then nvm.
DDance Sets are cool and all but Calm Mind is actually pretty underrated.
A:
Kinda hard to fit on a team but its really strong.
If Xerneas gets banned I could see this thing rising to take its place but for now it has good defensive utility being able to switch into Marshadow (somewhat) comfortably while also having a strong CM set.
Good role compression between a defogger and a Primal Groudon check, I prefer physical but special is good too.
Defensive sets are passive af but Defensive DDance is cool alongside full out Offensive DDance.
A-:
4MSS goes hard but still a nightmare to switch into, as well set status against potential Facade sets (i LOVE setting up against Ho-Oh!)
Can set hazards which is cool ig but it sets screens better IMO
Psyspam goes hard but even outside of that its still really strong, and tera can remove potential revenge killers like Marshadow
Like Arceus its kinda hard to fit on a team but after one NP everything is getting 2HKO'd at minimum

B+:
lol
Choice Band sets destroy everything on the switch while Dragon Dance sets can sweep games with just a single boost. Even Swords Dance + Scale Shot sets are really good apart from folding to priority but you can run tera normal for Marshadow and the ESpeed boost anyways.
Trick Room warrior. On a side note, SubSeed is kinda underrated, especially since u make so many switches with this thing anyways.
One DDance + Dragonium Z and it's over
Defensive sets are a bit iffy but Power Herb Meteor Beam sets are great combined with Shadow Shield. Lunala isn't that slow either so it can actually sweep against slower teams
I mean it switches into Primal Kyogre pretty good and its one of the only Leech Seed users soooooooo
B:
Does great into slightly offensive teams but thuds into stall and fat balance while getting obliterated by HO. Also I love missing all of my moves hahahahahahahahahahahahahah.
Kinda suffers from competition with Primal Kyogre both offensively and defensively but has more utility and can somewhat check Primal Groudon so it's not all bad.
Not a ladder mon, fortunately, but is a nightmare to play against in a tournament.
+1 Shadow Force hits pretty hard while also outspeeding Marshadow which is really cool, you can also live Tera Ghost Banded Sneak from Marsh with like 20 Def EVs which is rlly cool too.
Best webs setter by a mile
B-:
Stall is cool ig
^
^^
Healing mons like Primal Groudon and Giratina-Origin is really underrated and this thing is bulkier than it may seem with that 165 HP
Magic Bounce is really good in this tier and it's STAB is really good against the tier too, especially when paired with Earth Power or Mystical Fire, or both! It can even set hazards or heal status so thats cool ig.
Kinda hard to fit on a team but the role compression against fairies and fighting types is super useful, as well as an inbuilt toxic immunity for a support Arceus forme.

C+:
Ok Shuckle sets webs up better but Smeargle has more utility in Spore and isn't shut down by Hatterene or Mega Diancie as it has Stone Axe and Ceaseless Edge
Still really strong just hard to fit on a team since its stuck on webs AND its hard to fit around on webs
Utility Arceus that isn't obliterated by Eruption/Water Spout is p good.
Underrated af those DDance sets go crazy with 170 Atk and BoltBeam coverage (literally the first nom on this page is for KyuB wtf is it doing in C tier still cmon)
haha i called it but seriously PsySpam HO with Glimmora or Shuckle is really strong and hard to switch into 99% of the time, and Lele herself can be a nuiscance with Natures Madness and Taunt
honestly idk what she even does apart from click Uturn
this mon isnt bad but its gonna fall off so hard when Xerneas is banned (if it gets banned :nailbite:)
faster screens but can't stop Yveltal from defogging them away so its worse than Deoxys-S but still usable
shut down by Support Arceus formes especially if they have refresh but does well outside of that
insert calc here (same reasoning as Mega Lucario really)
C:
nom coming soon but for now that typing + ability goes crazy in walling things like Primal Kyogre and defensive Etern while also having Leech Seed for utility and longevity (better than ferro trust)
Pretty good UNecro and NDM check but other than that its whatever
Chansey that can' be trapped cuz of shed shell is cool
that one stall team that hit #1 on ladder
Similar to giratina-o but it has flip turn and recover at the cost of being more passive ig
The only other Trick user apart from Calyrex Ice but Specs Meteor still hits like a nuke
it's bulky and can set trick room up
MonoJudgement is actually p good once NDM gets fainted
Somewhat similar to Ferrothorn and Mega Venusaur but better offensively I suppose
I don't see it much but when I do it's kinda annoying
Same as Cresselia
Shed Tail niche prob
End-game Tera Dark Black Glasses Sucker Punch still hits rlly hard
loooooooooooool
Hazard stack when this thing goes Tera Water is actually really annoying, also its surprisingly bulky
Probably has some niche as a late-game cleaner with Calm Mind + Tera Stellar
C-:
I like it but I haven't seen enough replays yet but it could probably be C/C+ cuz it does check NDM and Mega Salamence p good
Same as Mega Tyranitar
This thing just sucks cuz Mewtwo doesn't have the movepool for a physical attacker also just use Marshadow or smth lol
same as Cresselia and Hatterene ig
Good anti-lead but I haven't seen enough replays to suggest it any higher
Fast AF and Strong AF but it kinda thuds into the stall and HO matchup even tho it does really well into things like Zacian-C
Apparently walls Zygarde but I haven't seen any replays so I'm very skeptical
Needs a lot of support and is shut down by most of the defensive mons in the tier despite the flinch chances
shut down by Yvel, Darkceus and Ekiller and easily revenge-killed. Also does nothing against the HO matchup

D:
Really hard to bring in, really easy to revenge kill, awkward to use and doesn't deserve to be C- IMO
I have yet to see a satisfactory argument for this thing just use Lunala or NDM lomfao
What does he even do
All the other arceus formes get Power Gem now and they don't even struggle at keeping hazards up against Ho-Oh with Taunt sooooo

UR:
Too frail to justify using over things like Arceus Dark or Yveltal even on Stall
Seems too gimmicky and folds against Substitute users like Palkia-O and Xerneas
Counters Xerneas and thats literally it lol

 

[BananaTimeZ]

Slurpuff @ Red Card
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Def / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Endure
- Endeavor
- Yawn

While I agree slurpuff has some sort of niche over Smeargle and Shuckle as a sticky web lead, the set ur using is honestly stupid. Max defense on a mon that is meant to die, endure when you could just run focus sash, no way to block taunt (it learns magic coat), yawn and red card practically doing the same thing, no way to threaten anything beyond yawn. Shuckle‘s niche is that it has both sturdy and an item slot, allowing it to always set up a hazard without prediction, and smeargles niche is that it has spore/nuzzle and that it can always set up a hazard, even when taunted, with ceaseless edge. Both these pokemon have a thing that necessitates that you get it out of the way quickly, otherwise shuckle sets up a billion hazards, or smeargle statuses half your team. Slurpuffs niche is that it can prevent defog with a fast misty explosion, but this set doesnt do that, aside from the double ups and strange choice of endure and ev spread

 

[Cancel cult]

I am nominating Slurpuff for the viability rankings.
Slurpuff @ Focus Sash
Ability: Unburden
Level: 95
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 4 Atk / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 Def / 0 SpD
- Sticky Web
- Misty Explosion
- Endeavor
- Magic Coat
or
Slurpuff @ Red Card/Air Balloon
Ability: Unburden
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 44 Atk / 212 Def / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 HP / 0 SpD
- Sticky Web
- Endeavor
- Endure
- Magic Coat

Slurpuff finds a niche as a Sticky Web setter. While it may not be able to set Stealth Rocks like its competitors, it has some unique traits that make up for it. Its viability comes from its ability, Unburden. After Unburden, a max speed Slurpuff is only outsped by Regileki. There are two main Slurpuff sets, each having very important differences, but they are similar in many ways. Magic Coat is there to deny Taunt and reflect hazards, and Endeavor lets it trade with all non-ghost types. It is tera ghost to avoid Extreme Speed, block Rapid Spin, and escape Zygarde.

Focus Sash Slurpuff can consistently do two actions before dying, while Shuckle and Smeargle often can only do one. It gets Misty Explosion, which lets it deny Defog. It is level 95 and has reduced bulk to make sure it can more reliably activate Focus Sash.

Red Card Slurpuff is a more niche option. The ability to do two actions is a pretty big selling point of Slurpuff, and one Red Card Slurpuff lacks. It has advantages though. For one, Endure lets it not always be the lead, and Red Card can disrupt the opponent's attempts at stopping it. Endure also ensures that multi-hit moves cannot stop it, though that is more of a side effect than anything. It has reduced bulk to make Endeavor more powerful, but it has 212 defence EVs so it can always survive a tera ghost Choice Band Shadow Sneak from Jolly Marshadow after damage from Stealth Rocks and one layer of Spikes. It invests in attack, because it actually prefers to take more damage from Foul Play and confusion, and because it is more likely to use Struggle than the average pokemon. A variation of this set replaces Red Card with Air Balloon. This allows Slurpuff to switch in on a ground attack, and lets it ignore Toxic Spikes. Since this set is unaffected by Spikes, Slurpuff instead has 64 defence EVs, and 192 attack EVs.

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2081617070?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2081605951?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2081602608?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2081595581
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2080097253?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2080092300?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2080087827
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2078587895?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2076590805?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2076588462?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2075758212?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2075755528

Also, I got 5th on the ladder with it, so there are results to back this up.

 

[Sami]

Nominating Mega Venusaur from UR to C-

With it's unique typing in Grass/Poison providing valuable Toxic immunity, great movepool and stellar ability in Thick Fat, Mega Venusaur provides key role compression for Fat Balance teams in the tier, with its qualities allowing it to shut down threats like Primal Kyogre, support Arceus formes such as Arceus-Fairy and Arceus-Water, defensive Eternatus, as well as some physical threats like Zygarde-C and Marshadow. Although it may seem outclassed by Grass-types like Ferrothorn or Arceus-Grass, I believe Mega Venusaur has enough special traits to justify it's use over theirs, along with having a ranking of C on the USUM Ubers VR, for it to be ranked C- here, possibly over Landorus or Necrozma-DW.

Mega Venusaur Set

Venusaur-Mega @ Venusaurite
Ability: Thick Fat
Tera Type: Grass
EVs: 248 HP / 64 Def / 64 SpA / 132 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Leech Seed
- Toxic / Sleep Powder / Knock Off
- Synthesis
- Grass Knot

64 Defense EVs in conjunction with 248 HP EVs allow Mega Venusaur to avoid the 2HKO from +2 Zygarde-C's Thousand Arrows alongside Life Orb Marshadow's Spectral Thief. 64 SpA EVs allow Mega Venusaur to 2HKO Tera Water Zygarde-C with Grass Knot, assuming it's the standard Coil set. The rest is dumped into SpDef EVs to handle the special threats better.

+2 0 Atk Zygarde-Complete Thousand Arrows vs. 248 HP / 64 Def Venusaur-Mega: 153-181 (42.1 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 Atk Life Orb Marshadow Spectral Thief vs. 248 HP / 64 Def Venusaur-Mega: 148-175 (40.7 - 48.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
64 SpA Venusaur-Mega Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Tera Water Zygarde-Complete: 338-398 (53.1 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

The set given above has some pretty respectable calcs too, against strong threats such as Primal Kyogre, Palkia-O, Arceus-Fairy (and essentially Arceus-Water), Eternatus and (totally top tier threat) Flutter Mane:

More Mega Venusaur Calcs

252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Origin Pulse vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Venusaur-Mega in Heavy Rain: 132-156 (36.3 - 42.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 98-116 (26.9 - 31.9%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
+2 0 SpA Kyogre-Primal Ice Beam vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 152-180 (41.8 - 49.5%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
64 SpA Venusaur-Mega Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 216-254 (63.3 - 74.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
64 SpA Venusaur-Mega Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 248 HP / 24 SpD Kyogre-Primal: 212-252 (52.6 - 62.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

+3 0 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 131-155 (36 - 42.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+3 252 SpA Pixie Plate Arceus-Fairy Judgment vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 161-189 (44.3 - 52%) -- 16.4% chance to 2HKO
0 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 103-123 (28.3 - 33.8%) -- 0.6% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Eternatus Dynamax Cannon vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 124-147 (34.1 - 40.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Flutter Mane Shadow Ball vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 141-166 (38.8 - 45.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Lustrous Globe Palkia-Origin Spacial Rend vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Venusaur-Mega: 168-198 (46.2 - 54.5%) -- 57% chance to 2HKO
252+ SpA Palkia-Origin Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 132+ SpD Thick Fat Venusaur-Mega: 102-122 (28 - 33.6%) -- 0.1% chance to 3HKO

This set is not all you can run with Mega Venusaur, as it actually has quite a diverse movepool. Leech Seed gives Mega Venusaur both reliable healing and a way of chipping opponents down, while potentially supporting its teammates such as Primal Groudon or Zygarde. Toxic increases the pressure from chip damage when used with Leech Seed, allowing Mega Venusaur to outstall its opponents, especially when Synthesis is used alongside it. Grass Knot lets Mega Venusaur do solid damage against the tier, to Pokemon like Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, support Arceus formes and the aforementioned Zygarde-C. Sleep Powder can be used over Toxic to punish Pokemon that try to setup, like offensive Eternatus or even Mega Salamence. Knock Off can be used to discourage Flying-types like Yveltal and Ho-Oh from switching into Mega Venusaur, as well as removing valuable items such as Eternatus's Power Herb or Chansey's Eviolite. There are other options as well, such as Earth Power for NDM and Eternatus, Sludge Bomb for Arceus-Fairy, Power Whip to beat Calm Mind Primal Kyogre better and even Roar to stop opposing setup, but the main set given above is what I would reccommend.

However, you're probably thinking, "How is Mega Venusaur better than Ferrothorn or Arceus-Grass?" Well, there are a multitude of reasons:
​

Firstly, Mega Venusaur isn't quad-weak to fire. It's not weak to fire at all thanks to Thick Fat, while it still shares an Ice neutrality with Ferrothorn. This is important because Ferrothorn is forced out by defensive Eternatus sets that have Flamethrower or Mystical Fire, as well as other Fire-type moves such as Palkia-O's Fire Blast or even Flutter Mane's Mystical Fire. Mega Venusaur doesn't have to worry about any of that, so it leads to less 50/50s juggling if the opponent will use the Fire-type move or not. Mega Venusaur's typing is arguably superior, due to it not being weak to Fighting-types such as Marshadow, which it can soft check in a pinch, while sharing the Fairy-type resistance and Toxic immunity. Access to Synthesis means Mega Venusaur has more longevity compared to Ferrothorn, who solely relies on Leech Seed and Leftovers for recovery. Lastly, Mega Venusaur's Grass Knot is a significantly better move than Ferrothorn's Power Whip, as it's 100% accurate, deals more damage to Pokemon like Primal Groudon and Zygarde-C, and has more PP. A bit off-topic, but Mega Venusaur can actually wall Ferrothorn, even if it runs Gyro Ball (which is a 6HKO), although Mega Venusaur can't do much in return unless you run Earth Power or HP Fire, which I wouldn't.

Simply put, using Mega Venusaur allows you to use a better Arceus forme like Arceus-Dark or Arceus-Ground. Mega Venusaur is immune to Toxic which means it has more longevity against bulkier teams compared to Arceus-Grass, unless it runs Refresh, limiting its utility options. Access to Leech Seed and a never-miss Toxic are also good traits for Mega Venusaur when applying pressure to fatter teams AND helping teammates offensively and defensively, which Arceus-Grass fails to do. Mega Venusaur's neutrality to Ice-type moves means it's a much sturdier check against Primal Kyogre. The neutrality to Fire-type moves is also noteworthy for Mega Venusaur, for similar reasons to Ferrothorn. Neutrality to other types such as Poison or Bug are also good traits to have.

As for replays, I used quite a few teams for this nomination, but the one below is the one I'll be sticking with for the time being. The sets for some of the Pokemon were changed, such as Meteor Beam Eternatus originally being Life Orb, Arceus-Dark becoming Yveltal before going back to Arceus-Dark, and Primal Groudon being Stealth Rock instead of Spikes like it is now, but this is what I feel most comfortable using:



Ultimately speaking, I believe Mega Venusaur, with its good stats, ability and movepool options, has enough of a niche for it to be C- material in the tier. Originally I planned for it to be C/C+ tier, but since Xerneas has been banned, and more Ho-Oh want to run Brave Bird, I feel putting it in C- is a much more reasonable place. It's ability to handle threats such as Primal Kyogre, Arceus-Fairy, defensive Eternatus and non-Brave Bird Ho-Oh, as well as pseudo-check Zygarde-C, Marshadow and even Primal Groudon (under the right conditions) are relevant in the tier, meaning it has good role compression and utility for its team. It might be a matchup fish to some, and I'm not suggesting its 100% splashable, even on Fat Balance, but I feel like this WONDERFUL FROG needs some justice. Before I get into the replays, I'd like to mention that I think Mega Venusaur is much more consistent and reliable than Landorus-I and Necrozma-DW, as it has clearer differences with similar mons, is arguably easier to get into games, and can actually support its team. To be honest, I'm still not sure why Necrozma-DW is C- anyways, and I hope (when the next VR update drops) Necrozma-DW falls to D Tier.

Mega Venusaur Replays

Ladder for some reason hates using Primal Kyogre so my replays are a bit limited but I will be editing this to add more if I get the chance

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2090948019?p2
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2090945269?p2&turn=18
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-52rr9r3lyuttnrnezknp3060xmsmi32pw?p2&turn=13
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2090425780?p2&turn=5
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2091729754?p2&turn=10
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/...-q1gy97r8av6uvi3djuvz3a9rhz28b1spw?p2&turn=10

These next two are outdated because Xerneas is banned but I just wanted to show it could somewhat check it. Note that a different EV Spread was used for these two.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2076520530?p2&turn=5
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2076548265?p2&turn=11

Also I beat PsySpam with this, I thought it was cool so
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2090521806-wlvyw7z3ags360wiprefd960dmemf6mpw

Thanks for reading btw

 

[bumboclaat]

My last post was rather unfortunate timing wise, being a day before the Xerneas test was announced. Its test, and subsequent ban has unsurprisingly had a large impact on the metagame. This post serves as an update to that as well as a personal VR to get some nominations in before the next voting slate which I presume will be happening in the upcoming weeks. My timing is spot on as always so this will just be a personal VR.

Overall Style Rankings

Balance A+/A - Anyone who knows me is aware that I am primarily a balance player and builder. Balance was the best overall style before the Xern was banned and remains so today. A good balance team, at worst, has a playable matchup into every playstyle. The biggest issue style wise is largely going to depend on what team you actually load as it is likely weak to some style of HO. Beyond that balance teams generally have issues with specific mons rather than playstyles as a whole. I havn't differentiated between balance and fat balance this time around as they are both about equally viable in my eyes with the caveat that fat balances are a little more difficult / restrictive to build.

Bulky Offence A - Who would have thought that the playstyle that often relies on Xern weak hazard removal would benefit from Xerneas leaving the metagame. Bulky offence is the teamstyle with the most room for exploration and it has been nice seeing some of the developments. Xerneas being banned obviously benefits Tina-O, but is also seeing more exploration in hazard removal in the form of offensive Ho-Oh and Yveltal. The former of which felt incredibly awkward to build around previously as it could handle Xerneas, but would have trouble handling its friends which lead to some awkward sequences where it felt as though you'd lose regardless of what you did and were left wondering why you did not use Tina-O or standard Ho-Oh. Bulky offence is probably the playstyle which I am most excited to build moving forward.

Hyper Offence A-/B+ - Surprisingly, hyper offence as a whole does not feel that much worse without Xerneas. Obviously the loss of Xerneas hurts, but the fight to fill the void left by Xerneas is being filled by a wide variety of mons which collectively are harder to answer defensively compared to the auto include of Xerneas on a lot of these squads. The rise and exploration of psyspam is also an interesting development though that started before Xern was banned. At this point it is probably safe to say that psyspam is a legitimate playstyle, but how viable it is as both psyspam and the meta adapt is yet to be seen.

Stall B - It isn't significantly worse than it was in the Xerneas meta, but the increased threat diversity in the wake of a ban is rarely a good thing for stall. I am fairly confident that stall will likely be in a better place in a couple of months than it is currently. The viability people assign to stall is going to vary based on how they weight various factors. Personally, I acknowledge that stall is significantly better on ladder than in tournaments. That success on ladder is not nothing, but it also isn't something I value particularly highly.

At the top of the ladder there is an abundance of nonsense, even ignoring the people just having fun (shoutout the person running Iron Hands TR). The ladder meta is one where even at the top (1760+), a plurality, if not majority of Marshadow hold a focus sash. Matching well into this kind of meta is simply not something I assign a lot of value to.

I'd like to clarify that stall is still a decent and very viable playstyle, but it has signficant issues which it has a lot of difficulty overcoming in higher level play. Primarily, it is a somewhat matchup fishy playstyle since quite frequently the outcome of the battle is decided in the teambuilder rather than in battle. i.e. A team overly reliant on LO Yveltal is going to have major issues with MTar stall. The flexibility that most stall teams have to overcome these issues in battle is limited at best and thoroughly exposed at higher levels of play. Regardless of future experimentation with stall structures I doubt this issue is likely to be solved in a tier with as much power as NDUbers.

The +/- will be relative to where I placed them in the personal VR I did at the end of the year (post #153). This is just a personal VR and should not be considered a nomination for anything in particular - those will be after.

Pdon

- Unsurprisingly the best mon in the meta. If you are not running stall you likely need a very good reason to drop it. Don't really have anything to say that has not already been said. More people need to use Overheat. Most defensive Pdons are not on teams that have issues with Ho-Oh.

S

(+2) - In my new years ranking this was too low. It should have been S[3]. Zygarde certainly appreciates Xerneas being banned as +2 moonblast OHKO'd base form regardless of tera type unless using poison or steel which are niche at best. 'Physical Chansey' as some have coined it is as good as ever. There are so many teams which would cease to function without Zygarde as it is about the only mon in the tier that is comfortable switching into Marshadow and Primal Groudon among others while also offering excellent offensive and defensive utility. It isn't the best glue in the tier, that goes to Ho-Oh, but it is not far off. Some believe it is suspect worthy, but I am not one of them. Resuspecting tera should happen light years before suspecting Zygarde. Dragon Tail is underrated whilst trapping sets are great, but a bit too inconsistent.

(-1) - Ho-Oh falling is not because it is a worse mon. On the contrary it is fantastic as ever and I'm looking forward to the exploration of more offensive sets. It has fallen because though it is still the best option for hazard removal, it is not as 'mandatory' as it was in the Xerneas meta. It is still the glue of and one of the best mons in the meta.

(-1) - Similar to Ho-Oh it has not gotten worse and has only fallen due to Zygarde rising. Whilst I do not view any singular Etern set as S rank, most of them are A+ at worst. While Eternatus can be immensely frustrating to play against between scouting the set and speed tier, there is not really any set that I'd consider great against the meta as a whole. There are too many matchups where I'm left wanting a different Etern set for me to put it above Ho-Oh. Etern has a higher ceiling, but the game to game consistency of Ho-Oh is something I value just a little bit more. If someone has Etern over Ho-Oh I wouldn't agree, but also would not take issue.

S-

(+3) - This is likely my biggest hot take. Though I do not use the wallbreaker set frequently, it is utterly terrifying to see on the other side at preview. The wallbreaking set is a bit high maintenance for my preferences, at least if it is mono spout. This is primarily on the back of the defensive set. Though it doesn't match up fantastically into HO, it often trades with mons which can give its teammates a lot of trouble (taunt groundceus, Mmence, Zac-C in a pinch). Against BO/balance squads it forces favourable sequences which can be taken advantage of resulting in Pogre often going at least two for one. Against fat and particularly stall is where it shines the most. It isn't a one whale wrecking ball, but requires minimal support to sweep. Get some hazards up, waste a few seismic tosses / confides, and go to town.

(+1) - It has not moved up because it is better or worse, but rather because Xerneas has freed up a slot. It is still the best Arceus forme for the same reasons it has been the entire meta. I still don't really use it much or have success with it somehow. The uptick in DD Z Ground sets has been my favourite development. I'm not high on most sets that drop taunt.

(+2) - I am probably a bit higher on Yveltal than most. Life Orb is downright opressive into most things slower than it and non HO teams in general that lack Arceus-Fairy or Mtar Stall. Yveltal is obviously a beneficiary of the Xern ban between freeing up bulkier sets to be used on more teams and loosing an offensive check. The Xern ban has also allowed Yveltal to differentiate itself more from Arceus-Dark. The role compression offered by Arceus-Dark made Yveltal harder to slot on a team as it was a better answer to the mons you'd want your Dark type to check. During the Xerneas meta I would find myself defaulting to Arceus-Dark and using Yveltal when I wanted to use a different Arceus forme or the team needed a bit more oomph into fat. Arceus-Dark is still a fantastic mon, but there is more space for Yveltal to fit on teams.

A+

(+1) - Nothing about the mon itself has changed. It is still absolutely amazing and the best defensive Arceus form. It being an Arceus forme is precisely the biggest issue. I am currently a lot higher on Arceus-Fairy than I have been in quite some time and unfortunately you cannot use both. Arceus-Dark would probably be S tier if that restriction did not exist but we do not live in that world. There are only two issues I have with Arceus-Dark. The first is that it is a Dark resist that is awkard into Dark types. Refresh is hard to fit if it isn't on stall and investing the speed to outrun Yveltal so you are not locked out of status moves leaves Arceus-Dark vulnerable to Precipice Blades from offensive Pdon, one of the mons that Arceus-Dark is often relied on to check. It still is not beating Yveltal most of the time, but choosing between Bold and Timid often feels like a lose lose situation. The other issue is choosing between Wisp and Toxic. Toxic is overall better, but the targets of wisp, chiefly Zacian-C, make it the better option on a lot of teams. These issues more minor frustrations that are fairly easily addressed in the builder rather than major drawbacks. The biggest issues for Arceus-Dark going forward is the degree of competition it faces from Arceus-Fairy.

(-3) - Zac-C is the mon which misses Xern the most. A lot of teams were absolutely fine handling one, but not both. Xerneas also made TB Ground sets a lot easier to slot in on HO which carry more of a risk running now. It has not changed too much on balance and BO as these playstyles rarely ran both. It is still a fantastic breaker, sweeper, and cleaner on those teams, but the drop is mainly due to to the new challenges it faces on HO squads. It very well could adapt and rise in the future.

(+4) - When I look at what I wrote about Marshadow in December I don't know what I was thinking at the time. I think I'd come around to it a couple of weeks later. It is somewhat easy to forget how much of a menace it is until the moment you drop Zygarde. Switching around Bandshadow is a guessing game that you never feel particularly comfortable engaging in as guessing incorrectly is going leave something significantly chunked or dead. It gatekeeps HO like nothing else and keeps it honest while being an honest mon itself. This is placement is purely on the back of Bandshadow as I rate other sets a fair bit lower. Actually living a surprising amount of attacks because you arn't chipping yourself w/ LO and increasing the range at which you can revenge threats is well worth the trade off of locking yourself into a move. If Marsh is staying on the field for more than one turn it is probably cleaning up the game anyways.

(0) - Nothing has really changed for it. It is still a fantastic mon that will make you regret not running one of Marshadow, Arceus-Dark, or Yveltal. Nothing to say beyond that.

A

(+4) - I had a tough time deciding whether to put Arceus-Fairy in A+ or A but settled with A as A+ felt a bit premptive. I've been loving this mon lately. Well I've been loving support sets, offensive sets are still far too fishy and inconsistent but do have games where they will pop off. It just requires too many things to go right and too many resources to justify over other other options. Defensive though, that is great and a very underrated rocker. It keeps rocks up v Ho-Oh and welcomes a burn while matching up positively into other non HO hazard removal. It is also an actual good switchin on balance and BO to LO YV which doesn't have good options otherwise. Zac-C can, but doesn't really want to most of the time. Sometimes you need a real defensive fairy, not a tera'd one and that is precisely what Arceus-Fairy is. 330 speed should be the default as you don't want your Yveltal answer to be denied recovery. I'm also partial to tera dark as it maintains the dark resist and compensates for not being able to run Arceus-Dark and Judgement OHKOs Ultra Necrozma while also turning the tables on Marshadow which isn't clicking Low Kick v it ever. Arceus-Fairy rarely needs to tera anyways so it has a lot of options. It is probably the mon I'm most interested in keeping an eye on going forward.

(0) - About even with Mega Salamence in my eyes, but one has to be higher than the other and I like NDM a little more. Solg Z is amazing at luring its checks and counters in and obliterating them. There is a lot of exploration to be had with it and defensive sets may possibly be decent again. SD TR Solg Z is a set I'd like to build around in the near future.

(0) - Nothing has really changed much about Mega Salamence in my eyes. It has the same issues as before: 4MSS, Rocks Weakness, hard to slap on BO without a second thought, ect. All that being said, it is an excellent mon and I could easily see it being A+ or A- depending on how the meta develops. The issue isn't Mega Mence itself, but the teams it fits on. How I view those teams is more or less how I view Mence.

(+5) - I probably had it a bit low in December. I started liking Tina-O more towards the tail end of the Xern meta, but would not have viewed it as an A tier mon. With Xerneas out of the picture Tina-O structures are freed up quite a bit. I've also been experimenting with it as a breaker on balance with Ho-Oh as a defogger. I don't think it is likely to move to A+ but it could be higher than I have it currently. As an aside, I really regret not loading the tera steel pain split Tina-O I made for seasonals. It would have straight up 6-0'd.

(+1) - Another mon which has risen due to Xern leaving rather than getting better itself. It is a HO mon and HO is worse, but Ekiller isn't an A- mon. It is doing the same ekiller things it has always done and raising Sandwich Lover's blood pressure with Grass Knot. I am not the biggest fan of Z-Giga Impact though.

A- Tier

(+4) - I view Deo-A a smidge above Rayquaza, but they could be swapped. This is mostly due to the recent psyspam developments which has expanded the number of teams Deo-A fits on. It has also made me scared of being Meteor Beamed even if it is off of psyspam. Great HO mon and breaker on the odd balance / BO squad. Also love Zrp200's tera blast ghost set. Deo-A is a simple mon. It either KOs what is in front of it or is KO'd itself. I don't see it breaking the A ranks anytime soon.

(+5) - I intially considered Ray to be the deliniating line between A- and B+. Thinking about it more it is better than stuff like MMY and Arc-Water. Life Orb and suicide rocks leads are alright, but band is great. It is a nuclear breaker that has a great speed tier for what it wants to do (being outspeed by Yveltal is the only real speed issue) and fits everything it wants into one moveset. It is also a great pivot in a tier which is desperate for it. It isn't going to be on the field for a lot of turns, but if arn't running HO you'll be scared about every single one. Tera fly banded ascent is dopamine.

(-2) - This drop is largely due to increased competition with Glimmora. Deo-S is still the best suicide lead but does have actual competition these days if you want to run non webs HO. It is also a much better screener than Grimmsnarl.

(0) - Arceus-Water could be B+. I have not used it much recently nor have I seen it but I don't see a reason why it needs to drop. Nothing much has changed for it. It is still a decent, but not the best Arceus form that offers a nice blend of offensive and defensive utility.

(-3) - Very nearly put this in B+ but I guess I still have some faith in it. It is a great breaker, but its issues are glaring to the point of being restrictive. Invest a lot of evs in defence to live a shadow sneak that you'll probably die to anyways and now you don't have enough speed to outspeed Marshadow or tie Etern in base form. It still gets outsped and OHKOd by Zac-C anyways. Zygarde + Arceus-Fairy almost feel mandatory as teammates. Even with all these issues it is still going to be missing coverage for at least one of NDM, Arceus-Dark, or Yveltal and you'll groan when you load into one of them. MMY has a lot of issues, but it also has a lot of games where it just grabs a NP and cleans house. It still has that speed and power despite a lot of issues. I would not be surprised to see it drop to B+ in the future.

I'm going to stop with the numerical rises and drops compared to my December personal VR here. Descriptions / justifications for placements will also be a lot shorter.

B+

- Tera ghost specs is the truth. The main issue is yeah.. that 4x ghost/dark weakness has to be accounted for in the builder. Tera fairy is alright but Moonblast does enough damage without it. Trick is great v fat and focus blast is bait. The real issue is the support required in the builder. Defensive sets are alright, but probably B tier. Boots tera fairy on fat balance can and will wall entire teams.

- Council please ban this. Losing Xern sucks but Goth still does Goth things and there are enough mons which appreciate that. It is still fishy but consistent enough to where it should be banned. I'm just glad that it is very unpopular on ladder.

Don't have much to say that I havn't previously. Band is great and enables unique structures with cleric support. It is the best TR mon and makes it a somewhat viable playstyle. OTR sets are very overrated and a lot of the teams I see it on would be better with TR NDM. It just has a tough time snowballing without that intial boost from the choice band.

- It is Ditto. It does Ditto things. A HO mon which ditto struggled with has left making Ditto quite happy.

- A great alternative to Deo-S on HO that we are all familiar with at this point in time. Deo-S is definitely better but Glimm is closer to a sidegrade than a downgrade. It is significantly more annoying to balance / bo structures than Deo-S.

- I've said all I have to say on this mon. If you like gambling this is the mon for you. Just remember you decided to load a mon that doesn't have a single accurate move. It can and will come back to bite you. I could see it getting better if the structures Palkia-Horse feeds on become more prominent.

- The real issue is fitting it on a team. It is great on the teams it fits on and those teams are good enough to keep it out of B.

- This is me being optimistic. It is sleeper mon that reminds you it exists by goobing you. If it did not lock you out of using other Arc formes and Ultra Necrozma it would be a lot higher.

B

- Take this as the stall rank. I'm not particularly high on Tina-O stall. Chansey and Dozo are near undroppable on stall. If you run into standardish stall you'll see these three every time.

- Alright if fishy HO mon. It could be higher but I'd want to see it used more.

- The better webs setter imo. There isn't really anything beyond that.

- I would have had this somewhere in B- but talking to Adem yesterday has raised my opinion on it a bit. Otherwise it would be a subrank lower. Annoying mon but shuckle is just better imo.

B-

All the credit to R8. Mola fat balance is a very interesting and legit archetype. There is a lot of exploration left to do.

- D rank mon if you're laddering, C- on a good day. Goth exists and it can hold shed shell. Otherwise outclassed by Chansey.

- Not a mon that I see often but its ok. It has some role compression that is nice on some offence teams and the speed control is nice. It quite benefits from the fall of defensive NDM so it could easily fall a fair bit in the future.

- HO lead that is surprisingly annoying for balance. It has a decent blend of power and coverage and will probably get the rocks up.

- Runo has turned me onto it. Though far from the best Arceus forme its positive traits make Arceus-Grass a surprisingly potent anti-meta mon. It is walled by Ho-Oh, but Gothitelle exists.

Great if uncommon on webs. It is good enough to consider on a webs team even if it is not the most common choice.

C+

Psyspam is decent and this is the enabler. Others have talked about it and I don't have anything to add that I or others havn't said already. Credit to Sandwich Lover and Sami.

It works enough on some HOs / BOs. It isn't the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th, pick but is fun and is consistent enough when built around.

It is a screens setter that is mostly outclassed by Deo-S. It has some matchups where it is better but just used Deo-S unless you want to fish.

Mono flying STAB is decent enough. I've never ran it myself, but when I've ran into it has had enough potential if built around properly to justify C+. What I've written about Ky-B applies here.

C

It is a webs pick that rarely shows up on webs. Initially I was going to UR it, but it is definitely viable.

Useable, but more of a tourney than ladder mon. It is decent into balance but struggles v HO.

It has enough of a niche to be viable even if it should only show up approximately 1/100 games.

It answers LO YV for stall and punishes lazy building. Its place on stall is real enough at this point to merit a spot on the VR.

They're both absolute tera hogs that match up very well into specific styles of teams. Ghold is a nuisance into fat. Garg is annoying into balance. Neither are amazing mons but they have enough of a legitmate niche to be the lowest subrank.

I don't know

- With the ban of Xern what exactly does this do? It isn't a Zac-C answer. I guess it absorbs tspikes? Legitimately no clue where it should be other than a lot lower than B+.

- I've been told its niche is being neutral to the Primal's stabs which is well something. In over a year playing this tier I've still never run into it and I'd probably run M-Lati before it. My gut tells me it is unviable but my brain says you're missing something.

Same thing as Arceus-Dragon except I can see the niche on paper but struggle to see it put into practice effectively.

- Could be C since I don't have a C- in this VR. It is probably viable, but I'm not so sure.

Ranked to UR / D

- It goes berserk once every 50 games or so where the opposing team happens to match up perfectly with whatever coverage it happens to have. If every mon that fit that description was on the VR it would be too damn bloated.
- It is flutter mid. Nothing to expand upon
- I had a strong disdain for Meagearna before but acknowledged it was legit as it did compress a Xern + Yveltal answer for fat balance. With Xern banned is answering Yveltal enough considering it does literally almost nothing else? It could maybe be C or something but Mtar at least provides knock which is huge for the stall mirror.
- As far as I saw it was a really crappy Xern check that also badly checked a couple of other things
- Sorry Sami
- Its the havn't seen a good Sableye stall in too long for it to remain on the VR part of the cycle.
Mel w/ TR on the VR should be D. It is at best the 4th best abuser on TR anyways and pretty droppable. It could be the lowest C rank w/ Hatt and maybe Cresselia added.
- The few times I've ran into it I have really been disappointed. It is too fishy to be on the VR but probably fits on a team or two.
- The experience w this of myself and others during its cycle for the teambuilding comp speaks for itself. Just use any other HO lead. I really wish it was better b/c it has a lot of cool features.
- Can't remember why this was ranked (I think TR or moongeist UNecro). Havn't seen it once since it was ranked.

It was mentioned that I should make the noms I'd planned to anyways for the next VR but looking at my noms from a month ago there arn't really many from that I would change. Mega Lucario should probably be somewhere in the C ranks and I withdraw my Arceus-Fairy nom. It is fantastic and I was being a hater. I'm just going to wait a bit to see how the metagame develops being making any nominations since they'll be outdated by the time the next slate is voted on anyways.

 

[Sami]

(0) - Arceus-Water could be B+. I have not used it much recently nor have I seen it but I don't see a reason why it needs to drop. Nothing much has changed for it. It is still a decent, but not the best Arceus form that offers a nice blend of offensive and defensive utility.

I really don't think Arceus-Water is A- material. Although it does have good utility and solid defenses paired with its typing, it feels awkward to use sometimes. Mono-Judgement means fighting against Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre is much harder, as you have to rely on Toxic for damage, which is weird since Arceus-Water should, on paper, check these two pretty nicely, but only having Toxic as good damage makes you really passive against Bulky Calm Mind Kyogre or Double Dance Groudon. This encourages moves like Ice Beam or Earth Power, but then you lack the utility that makes Arceus-Water so good, such as Stealth Rock, Taunt, Defog or even Refresh. I feel like just running Bulky Kyogre is a better option that running this thing majority of the time unless you feel like you need hazard control or maybe a Toxic spreader, which even Primal Kyogre can do (although its not very good at it). Offensive Calm Mind Arceus-Water is also strange because it feels super weak and lacks the immediate power that Primal Kyogre does, as well as being walled by things like Giratina-O and Mega Salamence, the latter easily being able to setup on it. I'd argue it should be B tier rather than B+, but its definitely not A- in my opinion, since I'd still say Mega Mewtwo Y is better than it.

- A great alternative to Deo-S on HO that we are all familiar with at this point in time. Deo-S is definitely better but Glimm is closer to a sidegrade than a downgrade. It is significantly more annoying to balance / bo structures than Deo-S.

I really don't like Glimmora that much to say it's B+ material. Being a hazard lead that loses to Taunt Arceus formes is a pretty major downgrade compared to Deoxys-S which hinders its usability. It doesn't really stop pokemon like Arceus, Yveltal or Giratina-O from removing the hazards it sets, even with Mortal Spin, and all three of which are easily able to kill it without triggering Toxic Debris. Although it is more annoying, it isn't annoying for long, especially if you run Eternatus who can remove the Toxic Spikes with ease. I'm not saying its BAD, it's got a solid niche, but going from UR to B+ is a major jump. I'd say C+/B- is a solid position for it for now, but I'd still rather use Deoxys-S.

- Runo has turned me onto it. Though far from the best Arceus forme its positive traits make Arceus-Grass a surprisingly potent anti-meta mon. It is walled by Ho-Oh, but Gothitelle exists.

I'm assuming you're talking about offensive Calm Mind variants with the Gothitelle mention but just like Glimmora, I don't like this thing to put it above C+. It really isn't easy to setup with a typing like that, being threatened by things like Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Eternatus etc. The 3A Calm Mind sets have poor longevity and running Recover/Refresh/Taunt limits what you can break through, from Ho-Oh to NDM. Sure, you can use Gothitelle to get rid of Ho-Oh or NDM, but at that point why not just use Arceus-Fairy? I wouldn't even suggest setting up on Zygarde without cleric support or Refresh because it hates Glare as well. It just seems a bit too inconsistent and matchup fishy to work, and even with team support, you'd probably just be better off using another Arceus forme.

Psyspam is decent and this is the enabler. Others have talked about it and I don't have anything to add that I or others havn't said already. Credit to Sandwich Lover and Sami.

PsySpam is awesome.

Mono flying STAB is decent enough. I've never ran it myself, but when I've ran into it has had enough potential if built around properly to justify C+. What I've written about Ky-B applies here.

The fact that Defensive NDM is kinda trash means this thing is really strong when it gets going. It's like a better version of Arceus-Grass in my opinion, since it can handle things like Chansey or Blissey better since you can run Refresh, Taunt or Recover. I still wouldn't put it above C+, but I definitely wouldn't say Arceus-Grass is better than it is. I'd actually say they're pretty even when you consider Utility Arceus-Grass.

It is a webs pick that rarely shows up on webs. Initially I was going to UR it, but it is definitely viable.

Mega Lucario would be D not UR. And even then, this thing isn't that bad. Because there's no more Xerneas there isn't a major need to run Bullet Punch when on Sticky Web teams so you can afford to run Stone Edge to smack Ho-Oh now, and at +2, Mega Lucario becomes very hard to switch in to. It's like Banded Marshadow but if it needed a bit of setup. Not D Tier material though.

- With the ban of Xern what exactly does this do? It isn't a Zac-C answer. I guess it absorbs tspikes? Legitimately no clue where it should be other than a lot lower than B+.

Definitely a C+/C mon now. There isn't really anything it can properly check. I guess it does well into Play Rough Zacian-C and Marshadow but there are way better answers to those two. It's only real niche is beating Arceus-Fairy and Flutter Mane but for now you're better off using Eternatus or another Arceus forme.

- I've been told its niche is being neutral to the Primal's stabs which is well something. In over a year playing this tier I've still never run into it and I'd probably run M-Lati before it. My gut tells me it is unviable but my brain says you're missing something.

Mega Latios and Arceus-Dragon are somewhat similar, but it can be argued that Arceus-Dragon is less passive because of Taunt + Status which Mega Latios lacks, as well as being bulkier and faster. Mega Latios may have pivoting with Flip Turn, but this is irrelevant because its supposed to come in on Primal Groudon. Arceus Dragon also has less weaknesses than Mega Latios, such as not being weak to Marshadow and Yveltal, the former it can pseudo-check if its running Will-O-Wisp. It's hard to fit onto a team, but its got a niche. Probably B-/C+ imo.

- It goes berserk once every 50 games or so where the opposing team happens to match up perfectly with whatever coverage it happens to have. If every mon that fit that description was on the VR it would be too damn bloated.

Hot take - Mega Mewtwo X still isn't D Tier material. With Xerneas banned, the only two mons that can actually switch into MMX comfortably is Lunala and Arceus-Fairy, the former being smacked with Knock Off. Being a physical attacker that doesn't lose to Zygarde because of Taunt + Ice Beam is also a very good trait to have. It still has surprise factor against Yveltal too, who could Sucker Punch predicting MMY only to be 2HKO'd by STAB Low Kick instead. Of course, it still has its flaws, such as 4MSS, being outclassed by Marshadow, being hard to fit onto a team and not really having a designated "playstyle," but it's still not D Tier material with crap like Genesect or Arceus-Bug in my opinion.

- I had a strong disdain for Meagearna before but acknowledged it was legit as it did compress a Xern + Yveltal answer for fat balance. With Xern banned is answering Yveltal enough considering it does literally almost nothing else? It could maybe be C or something but Mtar at least provides knock which is huge for the stall mirror.

Magearna still has some good traits over Mega Tyranitar though. Obviously it lets you use another Mega like Mega Salamence or Mega Venusaur but it offers cleric support which is very valuable without Xerneas. It has pivoting through Volt Switch and Fleur Cannon can still hit things like Zygarde-C and defensive Yveltal pretty hard, so its not that passive either. Z-Heal Bell and Leftovers means it has more longevity than Mega Tyranitar too, who has to rely on Rest. It's only C tier in my opinion, since it only checks Yveltal, but it's still got good traits to justify keeping in lower ranks.

- Sorry Sami

Ok another hot take - Dialga is really slept on. Specifically Specs Dialga with Trick. Specs Draco Meteor pretty much 2HKOs everything that's not a resist or Ho-Oh/Chansey/Blissey, the latter not wanting to deal with Trick. Specs Fire Blast OHKOs Zacian-C and 2HKOs all NDM sets. The last moveslot is really versatile, having Thunder to smack Primal Kyogre (which it can partially check btw), Earth Power to hit Primal Groudon, Focus Blast to blast through Arceus-Dark or EKiler, Flash Cannon for STAB, Power Gem to hit Ho-Oh harder (56.3% chance to OHKO) and even utility options like Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Toxic and the aforementioned Trick. Although it's longevity isn't the best, and it's typing does leave a bit to be desired, Dialga is FAR from a D Tier mon in my eyes, easily C/C+ still, and with Xerneas banned, it's probably gotten better.

 

[bumboclaat]

I really don't think Arceus-Water is A- material. Although it does have good utility and solid defenses paired with its typing, it feels awkward to use sometimes. Mono-Judgement means fighting against Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre is much harder, as you have to rely on Toxic for damage, which is weird since Arceus-Water should, on paper, check these two pretty nicely, but only having Toxic as good damage makes you really passive against Bulky Calm Mind Kyogre or Double Dance Groudon. This encourages moves like Ice Beam or Earth Power, but then you lack the utility that makes Arceus-Water so good, such as Stealth Rock, Taunt, Defog or even Refresh. I feel like just running Bulky Kyogre is a better option that running this thing majority of the time unless you feel like you need hazard control or maybe a Toxic spreader, which even Primal Kyogre can do (although its not very good at it). Offensive Calm Mind Arceus-Water is also strange because it feels super weak and lacks the immediate power that Primal Kyogre does, as well as being walled by things like Giratina-O and Mega Salamence, the latter easily being able to setup on it. I'd argue it should be B tier rather than B+, but its definitely not A- in my opinion, since I'd still say Mega Mewtwo Y is better than it.

That is fair, I'd be fine with it at B+. The main set I had in mind was Offensive CM with Earth Power. It has been way better in practise than on paper whenever I've used it so long as it isn't your main source of offensive pressure. It beats LO Yveltal which Arceus Dark and Ground don't really do without concessions. +1 Earth Power 2 shots defensive Pdon and you're generally free to CM as that will be the default switch as Ho-Oh isn't exactly keen to switch-in on Judgement. If it does you've likely forced a tera prematurely or you'll KO it. It also beats bulky Pogre which a lot of Arc formes / sets don't though it loses to wallbreaker. The speed tier / coverage is also quite nice v offence in general as it can smack most of the mons hard and it even deals with Zygarde somewhat. It definitely isn't B imo and I'd rate it higher than MMY.

My issue with MMY isn't the mon itself but actually fitting on a team that isn't flawed defensively in a significant manner. They exist but are so samey. You need Zygarde for Marsh, you need something for the darks and have to hope yveltal doesn't have sucker. It is always missing coverage for something. The stuff that a team needs to deal with Unecro is also going to deal with MMY and you better hope that it is the one you have coverage for. If you drop focus blast you also need a lot of help to deal with stall. You need very solid Zac-C counterplay because that can come in an one shot you at +1. MMY is a mon with a high ceiling, it just asks for a lot to be able to shine. I have lunala in B+ and I find that a lot easier to use and it has a lot of the same restrictions if used as a breaker.

I really don't like Glimmora that much to say it's B+ material. Being a hazard lead that loses to Taunt Arceus formes is a pretty major downgrade compared to Deoxys-S which hinders its usability. It doesn't really stop pokemon like Arceus, Yveltal or Giratina-O from removing the hazards it sets, even with Mortal Spin, and all three of which are easily able to kill it without triggering Toxic Debris. Although it is more annoying, it isn't annoying for long, especially if you run Eternatus who can remove the Toxic Spikes with ease. I'm not saying its BAD, it's got a solid niche, but going from UR to B+ is a major jump. I'd say C+/B- is a solid position for it for now, but I'd still rather use Deoxys-S.

It is a personal VR not noms, if I were noming Glimmora it would be for B/B-. I don't think it is is quite as grim as you're making it out to be. Deo-S is definitely better, no question about that. Deo-S is better into Tina-O teams generally since that sucks against HO for the most part so it is worth sacrificing most of its hp to keep hazards off for the game. I don't consider defog Arc forms real at the moment, and the only one Id consider using it on, Arceus-Ground, is usually better off doing other things. Against Ho-Oh and Yveltal Glimm is significantly better. Because you are often relying on these mons defensively they have to find a turn to defog and check what is required v HO which is doable, but also exploitable by the HO player. Other than Judgement Arceus Ground the common defensive Arc formes are annoyed at a minimum by Glimm. The most important is Arceus-Dark which is likely to be a roadblock for a couple of mons on your team. Getting that poison chip via mortal spin which is likely permanent (not v stall but glimm is a lot better v stall than deo-s) goes a long way and is more valuable imo than the rocks and spike from Deo-S which can be removed as easily as those from Glimm later in the match. I agree with you that Deo-S is definitely better, but Glimm has its own niche that requires different gameplay than v Deo S. I'd be fine with B- but C+ is too low.

I'm assuming you're talking about offensive Calm Mind variants with the Gothitelle mention but just like Glimmora, I don't like this thing to put it above C+. It really isn't easy to setup with a typing like that, being threatened by things like Primal Groudon, Ho-Oh, Mega Salamence, Eternatus etc. The 3A Calm Mind sets have poor longevity and running Recover/Refresh/Taunt limits what you can break through, from Ho-Oh to NDM. Sure, you can use Gothitelle to get rid of Ho-Oh or NDM, but at that point why not just use Arceus-Fairy? I wouldn't even suggest setting up on Zygarde without cleric support or Refresh because it hates Glare as well. It just seems a bit too inconsistent and matchup fishy to work, and even with team support, you'd probably just be better off using another Arceus forme.

This is the team I was talking about. I am really do not like offensive Arceus-Fairy, but if I were to run it I'd likely run CM Judgement / EP / Last with Gothitelle. Arceus Grass' ability to handle Pogre is something I quite value on bulkier teams. Pdon also can't really switch in as defensive is 2HKO'd after rocks and more offensive sets are always 2HKOd. It also gives you an Arceus-Ground answer. And Goth can Trap Zygarde as well! The role compression you can get out of Arceus-Grass means it can fit on rather fundamentally sound teams if the number of teams isn't particularly high. That is something I value.

The fact that Defensive NDM is kinda trash means this thing is really strong when it gets going. It's like a better version of Arceus-Grass in my opinion, since it can handle things like Chansey or Blissey better since you can run Refresh, Taunt or Recover. I still wouldn't put it above C+, but I definitely wouldn't say Arceus-Grass is better than it is. I'd actually say they're pretty even when you consider Utility Arceus-Grass.

The SR weakness and the relatively common rock coverage in the tier are what would put it below Arceus Grass for me. At the end of the day I don't think there is much of a gap.

Mega Lucario would be D not UR. And even then, this thing isn't that bad. Because there's no more Xerneas there isn't a major need to run Bullet Punch when on Sticky Web teams so you can afford to run Stone Edge to smack Ho-Oh now, and at +2, Mega Lucario becomes very hard to switch in to. It's like Banded Marshadow but if it needed a bit of setup. Not D Tier material though.

All the ones I've seen have run SD/BP/CC/Edge. At the end of the day it is a less common pick on playstyle that only fits on webs, a playstyle I'd probably rank around B. It is hard to justify being only one subrank lower when you arn't an essential mon on that playstyle even if you're decentish on it.

Hot take - Mega Mewtwo X still isn't D Tier material. With Xerneas banned, the only two mons that can actually switch into MMX comfortably is Lunala and Arceus-Fairy, the former being smacked with Knock Off. Being a physical attacker that doesn't lose to Zygarde because of Taunt + Ice Beam is also a very good trait to have. It still has surprise factor against Yveltal too, who could Sucker Punch predicting MMY only to be 2HKO'd by STAB Low Kick instead. Of course, it still has its flaws, such as 4MSS, being outclassed by Marshadow, being hard to fit onto a team and not really having a designated "playstyle," but it's still not D Tier material with crap like Genesect or Arceus-Bug in my opinion.

My mind just goes if MMX didn't switch out it probably has Ice coverage so either switch out or tera. Sure it has the combination of moves to beat a lot of stuff but how much can it actually beat with just 4? Taunt / Ice beam / Low kick leaves one slot and there are too options none of which hit enough targets. I didn't bother differentiating between D tier completely unviable garbage like Genesect and D tier but usable if you really want like M-Kang. MMX would fall in the latter category for me. When I see a mon like MMX in C+ my brain goes it is good if you can build around it. Might not fit on many teams, but it is at least decent on some style. MMX doesn't reach that bar.

Magearna still has some good traits over Mega Tyranitar though. Obviously it lets you use another Mega like Mega Salamence or Mega Venusaur but it offers cleric support which is very valuable without Xerneas. It has pivoting through Volt Switch and Fleur Cannon can still hit things like Zygarde-C and defensive Yveltal pretty hard, so its not that passive either. Z-Heal Bell and Leftovers means it has more longevity than Mega Tyranitar too, who has to rely on Rest. It's only C tier in my opinion, since it only checks Yveltal, but it's still got good traits to justify keeping in lower ranks.

Is it? The only reason Mtar is ranked on my VR is because of hamsters Mtar stall on which it serves an actual purpose in Yv switchin. Sure Mag is a cleric, but it isn't going to replace Chansey. Mtar being passive with rest isn't a huge issue when the mons it is meant to wall don't wear it down quickly enough. I'd agree it has good traits, but I'm not sure those traits are useful enough in practice to actually put it on a team post Xern. I'm not opposed to C for now though.

Ok another hot take - Dialga is really slept on. Specifically Specs Dialga with Trick. Specs Draco Meteor pretty much 2HKOs everything that's not a resist or Ho-Oh/Chansey/Blissey, the latter not wanting to deal with Trick. Specs Fire Blast OHKOs Zacian-C and 2HKOs all NDM sets. The last moveslot is really versatile, having Thunder to smack Primal Kyogre (which it can partially check btw), Earth Power to hit Primal Groudon, Focus Blast to blast through Arceus-Dark or EKiler, Flash Cannon for STAB, Power Gem to hit Ho-Oh harder (56.3% chance to OHKO) and even utility options like Stealth Rock, Thunder Wave, Toxic and the aforementioned Trick. Although it's longevity isn't the best, and it's typing does leave a bit to be desired, Dialga is FAR from a D Tier mon in my eyes, easily C/C+ still, and with Xerneas banned, it's probably gotten better.

I view Specs Dialga as a worse Specs Lunala in every regard except that pressure is quite nice in some situations v stall and it notably does not have to predict / switch out /risk staying in calling a recover against Arceus-Dark though it really doesn't like switching in v Moonblast. Lunala does all the things you've mentioned Dialga doing and more. Moongeist is close to a 2hko and always is with tera Ghost. It is a decent roll to 2hko Chansey w/ psyshock and always will with rocks up. It obviously tricks all 3 as well. Fire blast is a fair point v Zacian-C, but tera ghost moongeist is a coinflip to OHKO as well and doesn't have accuracy issues. Focus blast does do more damage than Moonblast, but focus blast is called focus miss for a reason and Arceus-Dark is always going to outspeed Dialga whereas it has to give up bulk to outspeed Lunala so it can gamble on recovering. Dialga has the edge against offensive Pdons since Lunala would have to tera to OHKO but it is the same v defensive ones and Lunala can switch in if it has to. Lunala isn't 2hkoing defensive Pogre without tera, but it also is a roll with rocks up and it can't cm through due to psyshock. This is also two whole moveslots worth of moves to barely outperform Lunala v a couple of targets with moves that Dialga doesn't really want to be spamming. I value the Darceus thing enough to agree that it could be C. Don't really have a comment on utility sets as I'm not sure why you'd use Dialga over other options.

Thanks for the feedback though. It was interesting reading your thoughts and perspective on some of the meta.

 

[adem]

Flutter Mane [(we all know everyone wants it to drop but they are wrong) -> B]
:sv/flutter-mans:
Flutter Mane @ Life Orb
Ability: Protosynthesis
Tera Type: Fairy / Ghost
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Taunt
- Power Gem
- Shadow Ball
- Moonblast

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2084910053
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2085791285?p2

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2095460137-5hmy72vqdbyspsuk6ax1gdawr6vd6rwpw
(lost but flutter farmed(

I think Flutter is a very underutilised mon currently, especially on HO where its a pretty hard to wall breaker. I think CM sets that people use and whats currently the sample set is god awful and is the reason people think its bad, but Taunt is where its at. 135 Speed is very important for it since it lets it outspeed ETern completely, preventing it from setting TSpikes vs HO which usually are a game ender. Preventing set up from other HO threats like EKiller, ZyGod, and TR setters is an extremely important factor that Flutter has. Being able to instantly threaten Ho-oh for upwards of 80%, and generally be hard to pivot into. I forgot to save a proper replay vs stall but it is impossible to pivot into and force out consistently, and taunt + strong hits is important to wallbreak early for the rest of the team. Flutter being fast and decently strong of the rip is also big in letting it be immediately threatening and gives you the upper hand immedietely. I HAVE MORE BETTER REPLAYS BUT IDR WHAT ACCOUNTS I USED SO I WILL NEED TO FIND THEM.

Landorus Therian [UR -> B-]

Landorus-Therian @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Intimidate
Tera Type: Water
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Relaxed Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Toxic
- Defog

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2095306777

Honestly I was kinda confused why this mon wasnt ranked, its had a niche in every Ubers before this, and was great in ss ubers too, it couldnt be completely unviable here. Checking Zac C and non fire move Pdon is huge and opens up team building quite a bit, pivots into arc ground, marsh, and ekiller and messes with them as well as u can tox or eq them if they are weakened. UTurn is probably the biggest reason to use it. momentuk is huge in ubers and it brings in all ur big breakers in safely a ton of the time. It also alleviates the defensibe burden of off ur own pdon, hooh, arc forms etc by soft checking so much things. This is a cool team I built with it with help from some friends: https://pokepast.es/bca16ef395c2f148
which I think showcases these qualities well. I havent managed to get more replays myself since i was on holiday until just now, but as i do i will add on.

-1 252 Atk Choice Band Marshadow Poltergeist vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 135-160 (35.3 - 41.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Arceus-Ground Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Landorus-Therian: 88-104 (23 - 27.2%) -- 52.8% chance to 4HKO


Basculegion [UR -> B]

Basculegion @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Adaptability
Tera Type: Fairy
EVs: 252 Atk / 32 Def / 224 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Last Respects
- Wave Crash
- Flip Turn
- Tera Blast

Replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2087808604

this mon is funny as shit LOL. 2hkoes the entire tier as a last mon, only mon that switches in safely is ekiller. yveltal darkceus cannot switch in out of fear of getting 2hkoed off the bat, darkceus especially as yvel can pack flutter at least. ohkoes zyg c from full. amazing mon on psyspam for too many reasons. i think sub agility sets have some merit but unsure how much. tera lets u flip the mu on sucker yvel and even zac as it cant ohko u with wc after u tera. please rank it this mon is busted as fuck idk how u guys let this shit slide LOL.


other noms

pogre [A+ -> A]

Not even close to the same level as the other mons in there, punishes passive play and doesnt do much into well played ho (common and good) or tspikes stuff (very good)

unec [A+ -> A]

Overrated. ppl calling this guy broken r genuinely bad at the game. the darks are so splashable in this tier, ndm is not an easy mon to set up unpunished, tera existing means this guy can be fucked instantly if it guesses wrong, theres so much prio, cant use z off the bat and often times it wants to use it for more than one thing. in high level games where both player plays well it is very uncommon for this mon to be the game changing factor.

mmence [A+ -> A-]

I am not a believer in a rock weak mon in a tier that is dominated by entry hazards and toxic. I dont think the mon hits hard enough to sweep and i would rather use ray on ho if i wanted a flying dragon. im hesitant to drop it much lower but i really dont think this mon is that good in practice at all, simply not strong enough.


giratina o [A- -> A+]

this mon is very very good very very splashable owns everything hard to switch in. rank higher good mon. nothing much to say. tera w this guy wins games a lot. even better post xern bc it often owns most ho mons, and in general is impossible for ho to switch into safely.

zekrom [B+ -> C]

bad

goth [B -> B+]

just think b+ is better for it, maybe a- if im feeling hateful but it enables a good structure, nice healthy mon to play with and requires critical thinking to not get completely fucked by it, very easy noob killer but vs good players its just a solid fish, since it still struggles vs ho.

Runo @council

 

[entrocefalo]

New update!

Rises:

Spoiler

(ground) from S-3 to S-1
from A+3 to S-4
from A4 to A2
from A-6 to A-3
from B to B+
from UR to B
from C+ to B-
from UR to B-
from C to C+
from C to C+
from C to C+
from UR to C
from D to C
(rock) from C- to C
from UR to C-
from UR to C-
from D to C-
from UR to C-

Drops:

Spoiler

from S-1 to S-3
from A2 to A4
from A+4 to A3
from A+5 to A5
(fairy) from A3 to A-1
from A-3 to A-5
from A-1 to A-6
(water) from A-5 to B+
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B to B-
(dragon) from B- to C+
from B+ to C+
from B- to C+
(flying) from C+ to C
from B to C
(poison) from B+ to C
from C to C-
from C to C-
from D to UR

If you have any question, feel free to ask me or Bobsican here or on Discord. Full slate here. Many thanks to R8 for participating in this vote too!

Some descriptions regarding the rise and fall will be added later, along with a mini slate for other Pokemon not included in this one!

 

[BrakeSeer]

New update!

Rises:

Spoiler

from S-3 to S-1
from A+3 to S-4
from A4 to A2
from A-6 to A-3
from B to B+
from UR to B+
from UR to B-
from C+ to B-
from C to C+
from C to C+
from C to C+
from UR to C
from D to C
from C- to C
from UR to C-
from UR to C-
from D to C-
from UR to C-

Drops:

Spoiler

from S-1 to S-3
from A2 to A4
from A+4 to A3
from A+5 to A5
from A3 to A-1
from A-3 to A-5
from A-1 to A-6
from A-5 to B+
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B+ to B
from B to B-
from B to B-
from B- to C+
from B+ to C+
from B- to C+
from C+ to C
from C to C
from B+ to C
from C to C-
from C to C-
from D to UR

If you have any question, feel free to ask me or Bobsican here or on Discord. Full slate here.
Some descriptions regarding the rise and fall will be added later, along with a mini slate for other Pokemon not included in this one!

arc fairy dropping is wild to me. unec i get but it still feels very valuable when your opp doesnt have scarf yveltal

 

[bumboclaat]

Ho-Oh and Giratina-O were two mons which had quite a discrepancy in how they are viewed by different voters. Would it be possible for voters to give their views on these two mons in particular? If there are any other mons that voters would be interested in commenting on that would of course be appreciated.

 

[Bobsican]

I'll try my best to explain some of the most notable changes:

Rises
: being gone means that it's not as easy to punish when it uses a Dragon-type move, nor does force a switch by using Substitute over it, add to that being a good Defogger as it's among the sturdiest answers and it's undeniable a raise was deserved, however, the reason the placements from council members being all over the place beyond that may have to do with its passivity at times and lack of reliable recovery.
: is no more, Yveltal can be choice-locked into a Dark-type move without as much punishment.
: Big stall has been developing and while naturally rather limited on species picks and being sometimes inconsistent, the pink blob does the usual, being gone also is a benefit for it as it can no longer use it as setup fodder with Tera Electric to block Thunder Wave, as in this tier Seismic Toss is too weak to really be useful for much else.
: Probably should've been ranked earlier, but who would've thought, it's a really optimized suicide lead and generally it will always lay at least one entry hazard.
: Thanks to adem digging lore from SwSh Ubers, this Pokemon can act as niche role compression between a short term wall and a pivot with U-Turn, its typing lets it annoy , and Intimidate makes its deceptive bulk surprisingly decent for the tier, for now it'll stay here until the metagame develops it further.
: Cornerstones of Trick Room teams, such archetype is quite inconsistent, but without these , and would be less viable, so strictly speaking they deserve being ranked to properly showcase the metagame, even if barely.
: Thanks to SandwichLover it has been discovered that some specific variants of hyper offense can use Psychic Terrain to have nuclear sweepers such as Meteor Beam Deoxys-A with Expanding Force, such team structures are rather recent and are still being developed, so it's possible will be ranked higher in the future.
: Thanks to R8's big stall agenda, Alomomola has been found to be a surprisingly decent physical wall, pivot and cleric, it'd be ranked even higher if it wasn't passive and far from a wincon on its own.

Drops
: Without , it's not as mandatory, although it's still around as good as it was a shaky check reliant on a mind game with Tera types and hoping Xerneas didn't pull Ingrain, especially as somehow the original spread but with a very minimal change lets it be used as a check to Meteor Beam Eternatus.
: Used to be a shaky check to and it's no longer as mandatory to consider for a team.
: While it fills the role of a bulky Water-type with defensive utility, the current metagame quite limits what it can do, it's among the most utility-oriented formes as its typing is simply mid offensively in a metagame with , yet it can't properly fit all the utility moves it'd want, so it's a bit inconsistent unless it's built around.
: Quite difficult to fit in teams these days as it's rather passive.
: With a raise in entry hazards, Lunala is limited to teams that can support it a lot, and even then it often has to Terastallize to remove its awful defensive typing, limiting its team.
: being gone means that Sticky Web isn't as valuable anymore.
: outclasses it in basically every single way, especially as thanks to Terastallization it can emulate Adaptability and hit even harder than it while also having an item slot, and opening teambuilding a bit to use another Mega Evolution. It's mainly ranked only for niche teams that try to overwhelm checks with it, but I wouldn't recommend it seriously alone as that's like running over (were there even any teams trying to stack those back when was legal?). I wouldn't be surprised if it got unranked in the future.
: Too frail to seriously setup with Calm Mind, especially as its physical bulk is barely higher than 's, for instance, can't properly fit all the moves it'd want without being inconsistent, and being gone means that uses of Protosynthesis without a Booster Energy are unviable thanks to and removing regular sun by switching out (no, Protosynthesis does not trigger on Desolate Land, although Orichalcum Pulse does, ask Game Freak on that one).
: is gone and so this basically only has the same niches as Tera Poison that several Arceus formes aim for, although ironically Poison is simply awful defensively these days, especially early-game.
: Hard to justify over or , especially as it has no innate defensive utility whatsoever, it still hits surprisingly hard after a Nasty Plot, so it retains a niche as a strong breaker to counterteam some fat structures.
: and outclass it, lol, especially as with being gone, a Fairy-type resistance isn't as valuable, Poison is also rather awful defensively early-game in this metagame between a trend of Psychic- and Ground-types.

 

[R8]

OK so i was invited by the council to vote on the VR, and so i'll give reasonings behind some of my votes. I'd like to preface that most of my experience is from the pre-xern format and i didn't get the opportunity to play much after the ban, but from what i played i felt like the fudamentals of the tier are still here. I also did not vote on Pokemon i was not sure about, part because of the Xerneas ban.

There are two rankings that looking back i think are mistakes on my part and i definitively would vote something else on them if i was given the opportunity:


I voted this mon to be A-, but in retrospect i believe A or even A+ is more fitting for it. Of course it appreciates the Xerneas ban, but even besides that it's just a great pokemon that has the potential to run one billion different sets thanks to its awesome movepool (i think the mon deserves more exploration in general, i think a lot of combinations of moves can effectively be used on this thing. Sub, CM and Dragon Tail in particular (separately or some combination of them) are moves i think we could see more on it), hits very hard/can generally be a pain to switch into and obviously its typing is great into PDon.


Honestly this thing is probably absolute trash now that Xerneas is gone, i was already not fan of it before the Xerneas ban and i actually meant to change my vote once the deer got banned but forgot to. There were better Xerneas checks, and spikes are probably not worth the effort of making this Pokemon work. Maybe it has some C/C- niche i overlooked, but otherwise i really think this is a D rank Pokemon right now.

Some other of my VR votes that are quite different from the other votes on the slate:
(Voted to A-)
This Pokemon is constantly underrated for reasons i don't really understand. It is very strong vs a lot of balance and stall teams alike, and its ability to check pretty much any non dragon tail Zygarde-C (you can run tera fairy if you really want a way around that anyway) is just incredibly valuable, and look i get the mon doesn't do great vs HO but that's fine imo, you don't need your 6 pokemon to be great into every matchup for your team to have a good overall matchup spread, you have 5 other slots to prepare for the HO/Offense matchup and i believe the tier has good enough tools to cover these effectively, stuff like tspikes or dd groundceus for example. I get there could be some skepticism around A- gothitelle, but i believe any ranking below B+ is probably just inaccurate.

(Voted to B+)
Ngl i just can't get over the fact the mon has to run 3-4 inaccurate moves lol. I guess that's more of a playstyle/personal preference things, but i tend to seriously dislike introducing elements with drawbacks i don't really have control over. I mean i guess Palk-O is bulky enough to afford missing a move or two anyway, but yeah i don't think those are drawbacks you have to accept considering other options to Kill Stuff already exist in the tier. I do think this mon has merits though.

(Voted to C+)
This Pokemon seriously deserves more exploration, i think scarf is amazing to use although i couldn't figure a team i was satisfied with yet (i stole the team 7u9i2 shared in his post here and edited it a bit to get this, although the team is of course not usable anymore because there is a Xerneas in it lol): being a scarfer threatening to ohko on Zacian after rocks is simply amazing, ice + ground is a generally very fearsome combination completed by u-turn.

 

[bumboclaat]

I normally stay away from the exact placement of mons in the viability rankings, but I feel like this is one I am sure about

Ditto B+ -> B or lower
Ditto was the scariest if you had a mon that could set up and just win games. The best of those mons was Xerneas, and now that it is banned, Ditto is a lot less scary. Since it usually runs Choice Scarf, it is only truly scary if the pokemon it mimics only needs one button. Currently, the set up sweepers that applies to are basically just Mega Salamence. I don't think Ditto can win games as much as it used to.

Xern was one of the few mons on HO ditto had a tough time revenging since Ditto required a lot of chip to revenge Xern while always being OHKO'd itself. If you think ditto is worse because the teams it matches up well into are worse or less common that is fine, but Xern itself leaving is only good for ditto in a vacuum

 

[Sami]

from A+3 to S-4

Glad this guy is getting more recognition because Life Orb sets are ridiculous right now, especially if you don't pack Arceus-Fairy/-Dark, being a special attacker that punishes both Ho-Oh AND Chansey with one moveslot is absurd and Sucker Punch is just as valuable. Defensive sets have also only gotten better since Xerneas was banned as this thing checks Marshadow really well as well as Primal Groudon. Choice Scarf is great into HO and Choice Band is rare but still fun to use. Choice Specs is pretty cool but that's more theory cuz I haven't used it.

from B to B+

Honestly I'm surprised this thing wasn't B+ already since its Choice Band sets are monstrously strong, even outside of Trick Room because of its outstanding bulk. Even if Psychic/Ice is horrible typing, having STAB Glacial Lance hit the majority for at least neutral damage is really powerful. Combine this with Swords Dance (if you're not Banded), High Horsepower, Close Combat along with absurd support moves like Trick, Taunt and Encore, it means this thing gets progress done, even against Stall sometimes. It's not as Trick Room reliant as you would think due to its great bulk, as well as there being past gen sets where running max Speed was viable (SubSeed my beloved).

from UR to B+

Ok now this is a change I'm not really up for. Apart from the fact this is a really sudden change (especially if you're unaware of what this thing does), Alomomola's 3 status moveset and complete lack of power means it allows pretty much any mon to setup on it, such as Necrozma-DM, Eternatus, Palkia-O and Zacian-C, as well as Toxic not helping much against Pokemon like Facade Mega Salamence and Rest Zygarde. Although it's Wish passing capabilites are very noteworthy in a tier with unreliable healing (Giratina-O, Primal Groudon etc), and it's solid bulk despite it's mediocre/bad defenses, I still don't think it should be B+. I find this strange as well because...

: Quite difficult to fit in teams these days as it's rather passive.

If Ferrothorn got dropped because of its passive nature, how is Alomomola allowed to take its place when its arguably MORE passive than it is? Ferrothorn has Leech Seed, Gyro Ball and Power Whip to at least do mild chip damage against the opponent, while Alomomola's Flip Turn does next to no damage. Gyro Ball also helps Ferrothorn with Substitute users, especially Zacian-C and Eternatus. I'd also argue Thunder Wave is more crippling and discouraging to setup sweepers than Toxic is, because it makes revenge killing much easier, rather than trying to outlast them, which may be impossible in certain matchups. Ultimately, I don't think Alomomola should have gone from UR to B+ so suddenly, and if it were up to me, it should probably be B/B-. By the way, I don't mind Ferrothorn dropping, what's been said by Bobsican is true and I feel B is a solid place for it right now.

from C to C+
from C to C+

Lumping these two together because I'm shocked at how underrated these two are right now. Having Mega Mewtwo X and Buzzwole of all Pokemon above these two powerhouses was always absurd to me, and I'm glad they're away from mediocre mons like Mega Sableye and Melmetal. Kyurem-B's unresisted coverage and insane attack stat, combined with Dragon Dance, has always made it a force to be reckoned with, especially on Dual Screen teams, while Dialga's special attack stat, boosted by Choice Specs, makes it a solid wallbreaker, especially when paired with Trick. Obviously these two have their issues, but I'm glad they're not apart of "niche" mons that was C tier.

from UR to C
from D to C

Although I don't 100% disagree with what Adem said, I still would've wanted to see more replays with Landorus-T, as well as Kingambit, because I very rarely see these two in action, and I haven't really seen a game where they were the main wincon or driving force. Still think they're C tier though.

from C- to C

Am I crazy or was this thing never on the VR?

from UR to C-

hehe

from B+ to B

Personally I would've dropped Grimmsnarl a bit more because it can't stop Yveltal or Arceus-Dark from using Taunt/Defog unlike Deoxys-S, such as in B- or C+, but this is fine I suppose.

from D to UR

Lastly this thing should've been C to UR not D, but yeah this thing is a fraud. I barely see it on Ladder, and although it makes a Regen core with Ho-Oh, just use Alomomola, who does pretty much the exact same thing as Toxapex. BAD MON.

 

[R8]

Ok now this is a change I'm not really up for. Apart from the fact this is a really sudden change (especially if you're unaware of what this thing does), Alomomola's 3 status moveset and complete lack of power means it allows pretty much any mon to setup on it, such as Necrozma-DM, Eternatus, Palkia-O and Zacian-C, as well as Toxic not helping much against Pokemon like Facade Mega Salamence and Rest Zygarde. Although it's Wish passing capabilites are very noteworthy in a tier with unreliable healing (Giratina-O, Primal Groudon etc), and it's solid bulk despite it's mediocre/bad defenses, I still don't think it should be B+. I find this strange as well because...

Disagree with this: one of alomomola's main selling points (if not the main one) is its ability to steal/keep momentum with the combination of flip turn and regenerator (which allows it to click flip turn more often without needing to heal). The setup threat vs alomomola 1v1 rarely happens unless the setup threat user pulls off a double switch, but this is a situation the alomomola user should note the possibility of in teampreview and play around with. Alomomola can even toy with its EVs to be able to bring a revenge killer vs certain setup threats safely (example: +3 252 Atk Zacian-Crowned Wild Charge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 452-534 (84.6 - 100%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO - yes you almost die but you regen that off + pulling off one flip turn against aggressive teams is usually more than enough) - ditto + alomomola is an example, this core being also good in the very stally matchup, regen+ditto with wish support giving you very solid longevity. Viable defensive pivots in NDUbers are a rare breed, which is a niche Alomomola accomplishes very well (the only flip turn blocker - pdon - being a toxic target anyway).

Generally, Alomomola should really not be seen as a wall in my opinion: taken alone, alomomola checks pretty much nothing. What makes it so great is how efficient it is at enabling and positionning its teammates safely thanks to its great bulk allowing it to pivot against a very significant portion of the metagame, while also improving the longevity of the team as a whole thanks to wish. It offers a lot of flexibility both in the teambuilder and it plays and ultimately helps its team to be more proactive.

 

[cfdu1202]

Thanks for the update, I'll post my thoughts later but I think some rankings are off, like for example Alomomola should be B and not B+ based on the votes.

you are right, Alo has been changed to B, Ty!

 

[Cancel cult]

I would like to announce something.

For years, people in this format have been hard at work, tirelessly looking through pokemon, trying to innovate on this meta. Well, your days of toiling are over. This format has found the hero it needs. Someone so clinically insane that they would look through literally every pokemon in the game, and evaluate their possibilities of being useful in this format. Someone like me. Allow me to announce:

Project Perfect

I will go through every pokemon in the game and analyse their attributes. I will then take every single pokemon with even the slightest chances of being viable, and put them all onto a list. I will then post this list here. Now, allow me to clarify something. This is not a list of pokemon I believe are viable. This is a list of pokemon I think have a chance of being viable. This list exists to show you every pokemon that could be on the viability rankings, so that you know that if a pokemon is not on this list, it should not be labbed. This list is not a submission to the viability rankings, but a list of every pokemon that could be submitted, to help narrow down the possibilities for labbers.

Yes, you should be worried about my mental health.

 

[adem]

HI @COUNCIL PLZ I HOPE IM NOT TOO LATE FOR MINI SLATE

Chien Pao UR -> B-


Meow (Chien-Pao) @ Choice Band
Ability: Sword of Ruin
Tera Type: Dark / Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Icicle Crash
- Crunch
- Sacred Sword
- Ice Shard / Sucker Punch? maybe

this guy is an incredibly funny breaker, and a significantly better one compared to darm (ass mon). playstyle wise, it works similiarly to palk o in where its a solid early game breaker that is relatively prediction reliant, but not by much honestly. having an AMAZING secondary stab that is super spammable is very very nice, and pressures even yvel and darkceus hard, especially since it also resists fp/sucker/judgement, and with dark aura boosting crunch further. Unlike palk o it is also a menace vs stall and quite useful vs ho, and unlike garm its an actually good breaker that isnt a dead mon the moment arc water / pogre/ a tera water mon comes on the screen, and ice/dark is much more punishing than ice/ weak fire. Its solid speed lets it rk threats like chipped arc ground, unec, etern, mmence, yada yada

calcs

crunch

252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 248 HP / 76 Def Dark Aura Yveltal: 209-247 (45.9 - 54.2%) -- 53.1% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Dark Aura Yveltal: 228-269 (58 - 68.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Arceus-Water: 228-270 (51.4 - 60.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 266-314 (64 - 75.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 248 HP / 236+ Def Kyogre-Primal: 260-306 (64.5 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Crunch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 147-173 (45.2 - 53.2%) -- 89.1% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock

crash

252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 204+ Def Ho-Oh: 211-249 (50.8 - 60%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Icicle Crash vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Arceus-Fairy: 181-214 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- 69.5% chance to 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes

shard
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Ice Shard vs. 0 HP 29 IVs / 0 Def Deoxys-Attack: 382-451 (159.8 - 188.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Yveltal: 258-306 (65.6 - 77.8%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Ice Shard vs. 0 HP / 40 Def Necrozma-Ultra: 242-288 (72.2 - 85.9%) -- 75% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

sacred
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Sacred Sword vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Zacian-Crowned: 164-194 (50.4 - 59.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes
252 Atk Choice Band Sword of Ruin Tera Dark Chien-Pao Sacred Sword vs. 248 HP / 136+ Def Arceus-Dark: 258-304 (58.2 - 68.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and 1 layer of Spikes

your only ever clicking sacred if your practically in a 1v1 vs arc dark or you expect zac to come in and dont want to tera, but its nice to have

replays

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2102288564-ixr7fe4jh0o0sm1oh2ekn0vqhoqg97xpw garm could never lol
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2102278621-1y86nsaixdmjzpfae9f84tnitd3njdwpw dismantled a stall team, although i lost because im bad + got lucked + idk how to play around stall
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2102229158
isnt the bwst pao replay, but it does show its potential, and honestly i should have just crashed here since sucker didnt ko bc it wasnt orb (and not even offensive i think?), but even if it did fairyceus won anyways from that point, but im bad so lol
chien pao OWNS stall noob r8

ok i cannot send the replay because of reasons but cpao killed 3 mons including the dondozo which was forced to tera fairy, u just gotta trust me on this one….. and R8

please rank this mon.

e: added new replay

i think sd boots also has potential but ill need more time to properly explore that, sound sgreat w tspikes. oh and ting lu too i think he might be #valid but idk yet need to try it out

 

[Sami]

Nominating Iron Treads from UR to C-

So, if Excadrill is C- because of Rapid Spin, why isn't Iron Treads in C- also? It's basically Excadrill but its faster at 106 speed compared to Excadrill's 88, letting it outspeed Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, Yveltal, Lunala and Giratina. It can hold Booster Energy to go even faster, and with max investment, can outpace the entire unboosted metagame, including Deoxys-S which it can set Stealth Rock up against, while removing Deoxys-S's hazards in the process. It's bulkier on the physical side, letting it survive attacks that Excadrill wouldn't without Focus Sash, such as Mega Salamence's unboosted Earthquake, Dragon Dance Zygarde's Thousand Arrows and Extreme Killer Arceus's Earthquake.

Although Exacdrill does have more attack than Iron Treads, this doesn't matter too much for a suicide lead, with the only calc difference I could find being that Excadrill has a 50% chance to OHKO Zacian-C with Earthquake while Iron Treads can't. But again, anything Iron Treads or Excadrill do outside of setup and deny hazards is a bonus anyways; as said before, Iron Treads outspeeding Deoxys-S with Booster Energy makes it much better at denying hazards than Excadrill is, since the former still doesn't outspeed Deoxys-S at +1. Mold Breaker is an interesting point, but this doesn't let Excadrill deny Glimmora's Toxic Debris (for some reason), alongside Mega Diancie, Mega Sableye and Hatterene being pretty uncommon on ladder and in tournaments, so this ability isn't as useful as the speed given by Quark Drive majority of the time. The idea that Iron Treads can't utilise Focus Sash (so it can be one-shot after it sets hazards) isn't true either - while it's much less effective than Booster Energy against HO teams (where these two would shine), Iron Treads's similar stats and moveset lets it do pretty much the same thing as Excadrill, apart from the Mold Breaker situation.

Comparing movepools, Iron Treads has a much better selection than Excadrill does. Endeavor allows Iron Treads to bring something, like Primal Groudon or a support Arceus forme to incredibly low HP, making up for the "lack of power" Iron Treads might have. Ice Spinner, although these teams aren't common either, annoys PsySpam teams greatly, especially Tapu Lele. Knock Off is able to punish Ho-Oh and HDB Eternatus switch-ins by removing their items, alongside other mons such as Eviolite Chansey, Life Orb/HDB Yveltal and even Leftovers Zygarde to an extent. Steel Beam lets Iron Treads nuke itself before opponents can Rapid Spin or Defog on it to remove its hazards, as well as dealing heavy damage to Pokemon like Arceus-Fairy, Flutter Mane, Mega Diancie and Naive Yveltal. Lastly, Volt Switch gives Iron Treads pivoting, which can be useful to abuse more passive Pokemon that switch into Iron Treads like support Arceus formes and defensive Lunala. The only move that Excadrill gets that Iron Treads doesn't is Toxic, which could be useful into Ho-Oh or defensive Yveltal, but Iron Treads can still wear these two down with Endeavor, or just pivot out into a teammate that can handle them, like Meteor Beam Eternatus.

Overall, these two are practically the same thing, but Iron Treads's increased versatility and more relevant ability puts it ahead of Excadrill, with its better speed stat allowing it to do more than just setup Stealth Rocks against certain Pokemon, which Excadrill couldn't do.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2102655862-nog2k5r5gntfmeya09rxuc4mpdifcq5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2102662492
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2102670649

Iron Treads Set

Iron Treads @ Booster Energy / Focus Sash
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Endeavor / Ice Spinner / Knock Off / Rock Tomb / Steel Beam / Volt Switch

​

 

[Cancel cult]

Nominating Iron Treads from UR to C-

So, if Excadrill is C- because of Rapid Spin, why isn't Iron Treads in C- also? It's basically Excadrill but its faster at 106 speed compared to Excadrill's 88, letting it outspeed Primal Groudon, Primal Kyogre, Yveltal, Lunala and Giratina. It can hold Booster Energy to go even faster, and with max investment, can outpace the entire unboosted metagame, including Deoxys-S which it can set Stealth Rock up against, while removing Deoxys-S's hazards in the process. It's bulkier on the physical side, letting it survive attacks that Excadrill wouldn't without Focus Sash, such as Mega Salamence's unboosted Earthquake, Dragon Dance Zygarde's Thousand Arrows and Extreme Killer Arceus's Earthquake.

Although Exacdrill does have more attack than Iron Treads, this doesn't matter too much for a suicide lead, with the only calc difference I could find being that Excadrill has a 50% chance to OHKO Zacian-C with Earthquake while Iron Treads can't. But again, anything Iron Treads or Excadrill do outside of setup and deny hazards is a bonus anyways; as said before, Iron Treads outspeeding Deoxys-S with Booster Energy makes it much better at denying hazards than Excadrill is, since the former still doesn't outspeed Deoxys-S at +1. Mold Breaker is an interesting point, but this doesn't let Excadrill deny Glimmora's Toxic Debris (for some reason), alongside Mega Diancie, Mega Sableye and Hatterene being pretty uncommon on ladder and in tournaments, so this ability isn't as useful as the speed given by Quark Drive majority of the time. The idea that Iron Treads can't utilise Focus Sash (so it can be one-shot after it sets hazards) isn't true either - while it's much less effective than Booster Energy against HO teams (where these two would shine), Iron Treads's similar stats and moveset lets it do pretty much the same thing as Excadrill, apart from the Mold Breaker situation.

Comparing movepools, Iron Treads has a much better selection than Excadrill does. Endeavor allows Iron Treads to bring something, like Primal Groudon or a support Arceus forme to incredibly low HP, making up for the "lack of power" Iron Treads might have. Ice Spinner, although these teams aren't common either, annoys PsySpam teams greatly, especially Tapu Lele. Knock Off is able to punish Ho-Oh and HDB Eternatus switch-ins by removing their items, alongside other mons such as Eviolite Chansey, Life Orb/HDB Yveltal and even Leftovers Zygarde to an extent. Steel Beam lets Iron Treads nuke itself before opponents can Rapid Spin or Defog on it to remove its hazards, as well as dealing heavy damage to Pokemon like Arceus-Fairy, Flutter Mane, Mega Diancie and Naive Yveltal. Lastly, Volt Switch gives Iron Treads pivoting, which can be useful to abuse more passive Pokemon that switch into Iron Treads like support Arceus formes and defensive Lunala. The only move that Excadrill gets that Iron Treads doesn't is Toxic, which could be useful into Ho-Oh or defensive Yveltal, but Iron Treads can still wear these two down with Endeavor, or just pivot out into a teammate that can handle them, like Meteor Beam Eternatus.

Overall, these two are practically the same thing, but Iron Treads's increased versatility and more relevant ability puts it ahead of Excadrill, with its better speed stat allowing it to do more than just setup Stealth Rocks against certain Pokemon, which Excadrill couldn't do.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2102655862-nog2k5r5gntfmeya09rxuc4mpdifcq5pw
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2102662492
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldexubers-2102670649

Iron Treads Set

Iron Treads @ Booster Energy / Focus Sash
Ability: Quark Drive
Tera Type: Ghost
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Stealth Rock
- Earthquake
- Rapid Spin
- Endeavor / Ice Spinner / Knock Off / Rock Tomb / Steel Beam / Volt Switch

​

yeah, this thing was on my radar. its kinda just better excadrill. I will say that bulldoze is also a good option. maybe also hard press, I'm too lazy to do that many calcs, I have 1000 of these things to do.