Metagame National Dex UU Metagame Discussion - Porygon-Z Banned

[N_Mareanie]

approved by Jho and Jordy

National Dex UnderUsed Metagame Discussion​

Welcome to National Dex Underused! This thread will be used to discuss the National Dex UU metagame, letting users share theorymonning ideas, metagame observations, and sets! Every Pokémon that is under the 4.52% cutoff of the National Dex OU ladder or is not banned to UUBL is allowed in the tier.

CLICK HERE FOR AN EXPLANATION OF NATIONAL DEX BATTLE MECHANICS

Council:
Niadev (Tier Leader)
sanguine
MudkipBeans (Co-Tier Leader)
N_Mareanie
Pubo
Ryuji
Arishem
Lupla
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is the current banlist we have now:

AG

• 
  Alakazam-Mega
• 
  Arceus-*
• 
  Blastoise-Mega
• 
  Blaziken-Mega
• 
  Calyrex-Ice
• 
  Calyrex-Shadow
• 
  Cinderace
• 
  Darkrai
• 
  Darmanitan-Galar
• 
  Deoxys
• 
  Deoxys-Attack
• 
  Deoxys-Speed
• 
  Dialga
• 
  Dracovish
• 
  Dragapult
• 
  Eternatus
• 
  Genesect
• 
  Gengar-Mega
• 
  Giratina
• 
  Giratina-Origin
• 
  Groudon
• 
  Groudon-Primal
• 
  Ho-Oh
• 
  Kangaskhan-Mega
• 
  Kyogre
• 
  Kyogre-Primal
• 
  Kyurem-Black
• 
  Kyurem-White
• 
  Landorus
• 
  Lucario-Mega
• 
  Lugia
• 
  Lunala
• 
  Magearna
• 
  Marshadow
• 
  Metagross-Mega
• 
  Mewtwo
• 
  Mewtwo-Mega-X
• 
  Mewtwo-Mega-Y
• 
  Naganadel
• 
  Necrozma-Dawn-Wings
• 
  Necrozma-Dusk-Mane
• 
  Necrozma-Ultra
• 
  Palkia
• 
  Pheromosa
• 
  Rayquaza
• 
  Rayquaza-Mega
• 
  Reshiram
• 
  Salamence-Mega
• 
  Shaymin-Sky
• 
  Solgaleo
• 
  Spectrier
• 
  Tornadus-Therian
• 
  Urshifu-Single-Strike
• 
  Xerneas
• 
  Yveltal
• 
  Zacian
• 
  Zacian-Crowned
• 
  Zamazenta
• 
  Zamazenta-Crowned
• 
  Zekrom
• 
  Zygarde
• 
  Zygarde-Complete

Moves

• Baton Pass

Abilities

• Arena Trap
• Moody
• Sand Veil
• Shadow Tag
• Snow Cloak

Items

• Bright Powder
• King's Rock
• Lax Incense
• Razor Fang
• Quick Claw

OU

• 
  Blissey
• 
  Chansey
• 
  Charizard-Mega-Y
• 
  Charizard-Mega-X
• 
  Clefable
• 
  Corviknight
• 
  Diancie-Mega
• 
  Excadrill
• 
  Ferrothorn
• 
  Garchomp
• 
  Gliscor
• 
  Greninja
• 
  Greninja-Ash
• 
  Heatran
• 
  Kartana
• 
  Kommo-o
• 
  Kyurem
• 
  Landorus-Therian
• 
  Lopunny-Mega
• 
  Magnezone
• 
  Mawile-Mega
• 
  Pelipper
• 
  Rillaboom
• 
  Scizor-Mega
• 
  Serperior
• 
  Slowbro
• 
  Swampert-Mega
• 
  Tapu Fini
• 
  Tapu Koko
• 
  Tapu Lele
• 
  Toxapex
• 
  Tyranitar
• 
  Victini
• 
  Volcarona
• Weavile
• 
  Zapdos
• (
  
  Garchomp-Mega)
• (
  
  Tyranitar-Mega)

UUBL

Pokemon

• 
  Aerodactyl-Mega
• 
  Alakazam
• 
  Blacephalon
• 
  Blaziken
• 
  Gallade-Mega
• 
  Gardevoir-Mega
• 
  Gengar
• 
  Gyarados
• 
  Gyarados-Mega
• 
  Hawlucha
• 
  Heracross-Mega
• 
  Hoopa-Unbound
• 
  Jirachi
• 
  Latias
• 
  Latias-Mega
• 
  Latios
• 
  Latios-Mega
• 
  Manaphy
• 
  Medicham-Mega
• 
  Melmetal
• 
  Mew
• 
  Moltres-Galar
• 
  Pinsir-Mega
• 
  Porygon-Z
• 
  Sableye-Mega
• 
  Slowbro-Mega
• 
  Slowking-Galar
• 
  Thundurus
• 
  Thundurus-Therian
• 
  Venusaur-Mega
• 
  Xurkitree
• 
  Zapdos-Galar

Abilities

• Drizzle
• Drought

Items

• Light Clay

The rest is free game! This includes some giant threats like Aegislash, Scizor, Urshifu-Rapid-Strike and many more!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tiering History

TIERING HISTORY

Initial Banlist

02/13/2020 - Charizard-Mega-X & Mawile-Mega Banned by Council Vote

02/19/2020 - Charizard-Mega-Y, Hoopa-Unbound, Staraptor, Drizzle, Drought & Aurora Veil Banned by Council Vote

02/23/2020 - Alakazam-Mega, Azumarill, Medicham-Mega, Mew & Pinsir-Mega Banned by Council Vote

02/27/2020 - Deoxys-Defense, Dragonite, Heracross-Mega, Latias-Mega & Latios-Mega Banned by Council Vote

03/01/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UU --> NatDex OU

NatDex UU --> (NatDex OU)

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

03/05/2020 - Gallade-Mega & Hawlucha Banned by Council Vote

04/01/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UU --> NatDex OU

NatDex UUBL --> NatDex OU

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

04/05/2020 - Latios Banned by Council Vote, Azumarill Council Retest

04/14/2020 - Azumarill Unbanned, Latios Council Retest

04/18/2020 - Latios remains Banned

05/01/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UU --> NatDex OU

NatDex UUBL --> NatDex OU

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UUBL

NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

05/04/2020 - Aegislash, Thundurus & Victini Banned by Council Vote

05/06/2020 - Azumarill Suspect Test

05/21/2020 - Azumarill Banned

06/01/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UU --> NatDex OU

NatDex UU --> (NatDex OU)

NatDex UUBL --> NatDex OU

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UUBL

NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

(NatDex OU) --> NatDex UU

06/05/2020 - Cinderace, Grimmsnarl, Hydreigon & Manaphy Banned by Council Vote

DLC Isle of Armor Released

06/19/2020 - Alakazam Banned by Council Vote

06/21/2020 - Scolipede & Thundurus-Therian Banned by Council Vote

07/01/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UU --> NatDex OU

NatDex UUBL --> NatDex OU

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UUBL

-Rapid-Strike NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

(NatDex OU) --> NatDex UU

07/16/2020 - Gengar & Kyurem Banned by Council Vote

08/01/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UUBL --> NatDex OU

NatDex UU --> NatDex OU

NatDex UU --> (NatDex OU)

Gains
-

08/12/2020 - Grimmsnarl Retest

08/26/2020 - Grimmsnarl Unbanned

09/01/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UUBL --> NatDex OU

NatDex UU --> NatDex OU

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UUBL

NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

09/01/2020 - Gardevoir-Mega Banned by Council Vote

10/01/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UUBL --> NatDex OU

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UUBL

NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

10/03/2020 - Diggersby, Gyarados, Gyarados-Mega, Venusaur-Mega & Xurkitree Banned by Council Vote

DLC Crown Tundra Released

11/01/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UUBL --> NatDex OU

NatDex UU --> NatDex OU

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UUBL

NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

11/03/2020 - Aerodactyl-Mega, Blacephalon, Diancie-Mega, Latias, Slowbro-Mega & Tapu Lele Banned by Council Vote

11/15/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UUBL --> NatDex OU

NatDex UU --> NatDex OU

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

11/15/2020 - Aegislash, Alakazam, Deoxys-Defense, Diggersby, Dragonite, Hawlucha, Hoopa-Unbound, Mew, Scolipede, Staraptor, Victini & Aurora Veil Unbanned by Council Vote

12/01/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses
-

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UUBL

NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

12/01/2020 - Hawlucha Suspect Test

12/16/2020 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

NatDex UUBL --> NatDex OU

NatDex UU --> NatDex OU

Gains

NatDex OU --> NatDex UU

12/19/2020 - Hawlucha Banned

01/01/2021 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

No Changes

01/04/2021 - Victini Suspect Test

01/19/2021 - Victini Banned

02/01/2021 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

No Changes

03/01/2021 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

No Changes

03/16/2021 - Zapdos-Galar Suspect Test

03/28/2021 - Zapdos-Galar Banned

05/12/2021 - Hoopa-Unbound Suspect Test

05/27/2021 - Hoopa-Unbound Banned

06/10/2021 - Mega Sableye (Sablenite) banned by Council Vote

06/17/2021 - Weavile Suspect Test

07/01/2021 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Losses

National Dex UU -> National Dex OU

National Dex UUBL -> National Dex OU

Gains

National Dex OU -> National Dex UU

National Dex OU -> National Dex UUBL

07/04/2021 - Weavile remains legal (will return to UU if it drops again)

09/16/2021 - Jirachi banned by Council Vote

10/2/2021 - Slowking-Galar Suspect Test

10/17/2021 - Slowking-Galar banned by Suspect Test

10/28/2021 - Mew banned by Council Vote

01/01/2022 - Tier Changes

Tier Changes

Gains

National Dex OU -> National Dex UU

01/14/2022 - Azumarill Suspect Test

01/29/2022 - Azumarill unbanned by Suspect Test

02/18/2022 - Alakazam Suspect Test

03/06/2022 - Alakazam banned by Suspect Test

03/14/2022 - Blaziken quickbanned

04/02/2022 - Melmetal Suspect Test

04/17/2022 - Melmetal banned by Suspect Test

04/24/2022 - Light Clay banned by council vote

06/08/2022 - Moltres-Galar Suspect Test

06/24/2022 - Moltres-Galar banned by Suspect Test

And that is all! The OP will be updated regularly as updates occur. Feel free to discuss the metagame as of now and resources should be up shortly as the metagame settles!
Also credits to Sprite Project Smogon for being able to offer extra sprites such as Mega Evolutions.

 

[pulsar512b]

Fuck yeah!

So, webs is very good, obviously. Bullshit HO is the best thing ever. Xurk's a beast again. It's like you somehow mashed together Gen 7 OU and Gen 7 UU, with a bit of gen 8 sprinkled in.

 

[Robot7620]

second not first >:(
https://pokepast.es/5bf9a4b361fe1811
just wanted to share some fat, it's very hard to break this team consistently with Balance & BO
pulsar just had to snipe me >:(

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

Free Raptor

 

[watermess]

:]

Goat teir
M scizor webs broken
Hydreigon is overhyped
Coalasoil underated
Free dragonite
Free watermess council

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

Probably the first real post of this thread, idk if i am or not. If i am woot, if i am not fuck whoever made the first post. Anyway, on to the actual post itself.

Starmie @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Scald
- Recover
- Rapid Spin
- Reflect Type

Been playing the meta for a bit now, and webs are pretty obnoxious to play against. Boots Starmie is capable of spinning away webs and other hazards that can make an appearance on hazard stack offense. Having a good typing against most rockers in the tier like Hippo and Cobalion and threatening them with scald burns is fire as hell. Reflect type is the main flex on the set, being able to copy Bisharp, Weavile and other pursuit trappers typing is huge on keeping Starmie alive throughout the game. As well as being able to copy the typing of Rotom-H and take a Overheat or a Volt Switch is pretty flames. You are capable of being a pseudo status absorber with Natural Cure as well.

Tl;Dr Starmie is the GOAT.

 

[LORD SAGIS]

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn

Ok tbh I have not played this meta that much but Offensive SD looks scary because it outspeeds Magnezone and kills it. Also if you pair it up with Magnezone and U-turn on Celesteela and Skarmory then rip. I'll leave a sample down here if you want to use or not.



Also who the fuck is using Cinderace in OU lol.

 

[Robot7620]

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn

Ok tbh I have not played this meta that much but Offensive SD looks scary because it outspeeds Magnezone and kills it. Also if you pair it up with Magnezone and U-turn on Celesteela and Skarmory then rip. I'll leave a sample down here if you want to use or not.



Also who the fuck is using Cinderace in OU lol.

scarf magnezone exists >:(
also lack of recovery on msciz is generally unpreferred because... well, recovery
also why is msciz ranked so high when it gets walled by moltres >:(
(unless you're running some knock off 4a shit, and even then you're risking a burn)

 

[pulsar512b]

scarf magnezone exists

hardly. It's not very good.

so isnt one liner: I dont get why scizor-mega is S either tbh.

 

[Solaros & Lunaris]

https://pokepast.es/a4ff3350b3c40e22

Small set compendium for the S to A- mons on the preliminary VR, ignore jank sets and the lack of defensive Moltres

Edit: heres a DragMag HO if anyone is interested

 

[watermess]

Scizor-Mega @ Scizorite
Ability: Light Metal
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- U-turn

Ok tbh I have not played this meta that much but Offensive SD looks scary because it outspeeds Magnezone and kills it. Also if you pair it up with Magnezone and U-turn on Celesteela and Skarmory then rip. I'll leave a sample down here if you want to use or not.



Also who the fuck is using Cinderace in OU lol.

hardly. It's not very good.

so isnt one liner: I dont get why scizor-mega is S either tbh.

Inspired by ORAS OU webs teams I actually built a team with a roost-less offencive scizor team that has bean tearing up room tours, i don't think I have a single loss in roomtours with the team.

I think that this scizor set is best used on webs where it is painfully difficult to revenge kill and also safe from the rare scarf zone (may every magnezone rest in peace), because of that team (If it would have mattered) I was considering recasting my VR vote in favour of S teir for mega scizor, I honestly think it's a little broken.

 

[658Greninja]

This meta looks wack asf, I just wanna highlight one thing real quick

Inteleon seems like a value brand Keldeo, but it has a couple of advantages over it. Such as

-120 base speed is really good down here, outspeeding key th, Terrakion, Starmie, Thundurus, and Scarf Zone.

-The addition to Dark Pulse letting it break past Slowbro and the aforementioned Starmie.

-U-Turn lets it lure in Mantine and Blissey, while giving it a distinct niche over Keldeo by acting as both a pivot and wallbreaker.

Keldeo deals more dmg, better bulk, and typing but Inteleon is lowkey good, and has a valuable niche over it as previously stated.

 

[Ellicrum]

A bit like this thread on the Little Cup banlist, or as the thread on Inheritance already does, is it possible to have a WriteURL/Google Docs page (for example, it can be another site) which explains the reasons why each of the UUBL mons are considered too strong for the National Dex UU? I would like to know for example for the following situations:
• Azumarill, which was in comparison authorized in SM UU for 5 months, in a metagame inevitably less enhanced and without Mega-Venusaur;
• Mew, I guess by his new access to Spikes and Dragon Dance;
• Deoxys-Defense, I don't really know, I guess because of the "bulk + setup moves + Taunt" combo;
• or Staraptor, despite the presence of Celesteela and Skarmory.

 

[N_Mareanie]

A bit like this thread on the Little Cup banlist, or as the thread on Inheritance already does, is it possible to have a WriteURL/Google Docs page (for example, it can be another site) which explains the reasons why each of the UUBL mons are considered too strong for the National Dex UU? I would like to know for example for the following situations:
• Azumarill, which was in comparison authorized in SM UU for 5 months, in a metagame inevitably less enhanced and without Mega-Venusaur;
• Mew, I guess by his new access to Spikes and Dragon Dance;
• Deoxys-Defense, I don't really know, I guess because of the "bulk + setup moves + Taunt" combo;
• or Staraptor, despite the presence of Celesteela and Skarmory.

Azumarill got banned because of its sheer lack of counterplay, really. Choice Band and Belly Drum variants were a huge threat against practically any team, being able to sweep quite a lot of teams. Grass-type Pokemon, such as Tapu Bulu, Tangrowth (at the time), and Breloom lost to the PerishTrap set. The only actual counter to this Pokemon was, like you mentioned, Sludge Bomb Mega Venusaur, which is just too centralizing. Azumarill just was a menace to deal with both in building and in practice.

Do note that even though Azumarill stayed for 5 months in UU, it was also quickbanned earlier on in the generation, using the exact same system we're using at the moment (the kokoloko system). It later got unbanned, which could happen in this tier as well.


Mew and Deoxys-Defense got banned for the same reason, being too good at setting up hazards. Both Pokemon offer a very good speed tier of base 100 and base 90 respectively, being able to outspeed quite some hazard removers and prevent them from removing the Spikes and Rocks Mew and Deoxys-Defense set up. Almost always guaranteeing a spike and rocks in every game just made too many Pokémon overbearing to deal with, such as Thundurus(-Therian), Lati@s, and Bisharp.


Staraptor, while being less broken than in previous generations, got a huge buff. Not directly, but indirectly. See, even though both Skarmory and Celesteela dropped down, which would be theoretically good checks, got trapped by a new Pokemon that also dropped: Magnezone. The core of Staraptor + Magnezone was able to destroy so many teams in the meta. It was practically an unstoppable force, and even if you weren't carrying Magnezone, Celesteela would still take ~30% from Brave Bird, limiting the total amount of times it can come in it.

I (or another council member) will probably write up a reasoning for every Pokemon later, but I hope this will suffice for now.

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

A bit like this thread on the Little Cup banlist, or as the thread on Inheritance already does, is it possible to have a WriteURL/Google Docs page (for example, it can be another site) which explains the reasons why each of the UUBL mons are considered too strong for the National Dex UU? I would like to know for example for the following situations:
• Azumarill, which was in comparison authorized in SM UU for 5 months, in a metagame inevitably less enhanced and without Mega-Venusaur;
• Mew, I guess by his new access to Spikes and Dragon Dance;
• Deoxys-Defense, I don't really know, I guess because of the "bulk + setup moves + Taunt" combo;
• or Staraptor, despite the presence of Celesteela and Skarmory.

Since i have some time i'll explain a few of the other bans.

(MegaZard-X) Yes i am too lazy to find the moving sprite for the mega.

Xard was a glaring issue the second the meta started to be played. Stupid amounts of power, even before a dragon dance with base 130 attack and special attack. Pretty great bulk, great offensive typing and defensive typing (Dragon/Fire), having access to set up in dragon dance and recovery. All of these in tandem with each other spelled a top tier pick for any team with little to no switch ins. The only real downside to this beast was hazards and with removal everywhere in the tier getting rocks off the field was a non issue.

Another main reason was unpredictability in having ridiculous amounts of moves it could run, Taunt, Wil-O-Wisp, HP Grass and hurricane for mixed sets, defog, toxic, etc. Quite frankly a mon this versatile and this strong to the point where it could honestly be slapped on most (if not every) team type and be one click away from a 6-0 is extremely unhealthy.

(Mega-Mawile)

Mega Mawile had all the tools it needed to anally prolapse a team into the 15th dimension. Great offensive and Defensive typing coupled with a great ability in huge power which boosted its attack to horrific levels. Having great coverage at it's disposal Thunder Punch to hit Skarm and Celesteela and bulky waters like Cune, Play Rough, Knock Off, Fire Fang hits Magnezone and Mega Scizor, Sucker Punch can chunk or kill mons that would otherwise try to revenge kill it. That's just speaking on an AoA set, this mon can also run SD sets and completely dismantle entire teams by itself. Destroying common switch ins to it like MegaSaur and sometimes Amoonguss.

Going back to the revenge kill section, Mawile is very hard to kill as well at times due to its solid defenses, meaning you usually need a good amount of chip to actually revenge sometimes. 50/125/95 defenses as well as having intimidate prior to mega evolving means it can tank earthquakes and many other physical moves and set up or simply threaten them out.

Pretty sloppy post but i hope these two bans make sense. Free Raptor

 

[Velcroc]

Right now, I think this meta is pretty solid. Lots of playstyles can put in work and the S to A- ranks in this tier are quite meaty (although S rank can fit Latios and possible drei). I'd say it has a gen 7/6 OU feel with a bit of gen 7 UU sprinkled in but without stuff like Mega Metagross, Clefable or Lando. Another perk about this meta is that stall isn't as common right now if that's your thing (although this could literally change any moment) with Heavy Duty Boots plus breakers like NP Drei, Band Diggersby, etc. being prominent.


Not much else to say other than free Koko and Cinder

 

[Rudy Doody]

Ok ppl what do yall think about Avalugg? Its massive physical bulk allows it to pivot into any physical move without falling over and can provide a solid rapid spinner. It also has a niche as choice bander due to its respectable 117 base attack stat. It gets decent coverage in EdgeQuake with icicle spear or ice fang as stab and spin last. It can sit on the face of a mon like braviary and can even take a hit from +4 scizor if needed (+4 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). It is undeniably an amazing physical wall with access to recovery. Can it be used in the metagame with success though?

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

Ok ppl what do yall that about Avalugg? Its massive physical bulk allows it to pivot into any physical move without falling over and can provide a solid rapid spinner. It also has a niche as choice bander due to its respectable 117 base attack stat. It gets decent coverage in EdgeQuake with icicle spear or ice fang as stab and spin last. It can sit on the face of a mon like braviary and can even take a hit from +4 scizor if needed (+4 252+ Atk Technician Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Avalugg: 300-354 (76.1 - 89.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). It is undeniably an amazing physical wall with access to recovery. Can it be used in the metagame with success though?

You're better off running it as a physical wall on stall teams and for physical attackers. Being able to deal with Mence fairly well, and having boots to spin off hazards. There are far better offensive ice types like Mamoswine and Weavile. Mamoswine has ground typing and stab EQ along with higher base attack stat and rocks. Weavile is Weavile, it can be banded and have trapping capabilities or even run a SD and Z set.

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

Anyway with Ttar gone pretty sure Latios just got stronger since it lost another decent switch in and trapper against it. RIP Banded Ttar and Mega Ttar. Specs Latios and Z Latios gang.

 

[N_Mareanie]

Anyway with Ttar gone pretty sure Latios just got stronger since it lost another decent switch in and trapper against it. RIP Banded Ttar and Mega Ttar. Specs Latios and Z Latios gang.

Just so we're not all confused:

| 31 | Tyranitar | 5.50243% |

We didn't notice it last tier shift, but Tyranitar had more than enough usage to rise to National Dex OU, thus the following change will happen:
Tyranitar UU --> OU
Tyranitar-Mega UU --> (OU)

This makes both Tyranitar and Tyranitar-Mega illegal in National Dex UU. Sorry for this mistake.

 

[N_Mareanie]

The council has decided to vote on Latios!

Ever since its presence in the tier, it's been a huge threat to many teams. Its high damage output and solid coverage and speed allows it to plough through many teams at the moment. While Choice Scarf sets are solid, the real dangerous sets lie in the Choice Specs and CM Z-Move sets. Choice Specs has barely any switch ins outside of Celesteela, SpDef Mega Scizor if you're not switching into HP Fire and SpDef Jirachi. CM Z-Move sets, especially the Electrium Z sets. +1 Z-Thunder blows back most of the aforementioned checks after minimum chip. Despite all this, Latios still has a decent amount of offensive counterplay like Alakazam, Weavile and Scarf Hydreigon. However, the council still think Latios puts a too big of a restraint on teambuilding and has decided to be voted on.

The result will be out hopefully somewhere this weekend.

Please be sure to share your thoughts on this vote!

 

[watermess]

Latios
Ok so I'll do a quick post to summarize my thoughts

Points of interest
- electrum z
- dragonium z + zone
- choice spec

1. Electrum z latios is basically nigh unwallable, a the start of playing nat Dex UU I would use zone with my latis, but then I realized I could just use elec z and kill Celesteela and scizor after a CM anyway, these 2 would easily be considered 2 of the best counters to latios rn so it goes to show I guess how broken elec z can be!
2. Dragonium with zone to trap the afore mentioned steels is also incredibly strong, any team without bulu is gonna struggle not to lose a Mon if zone gets off its trap, since a +1 drag z hits like an absolute mother fkr! And even with bulu u don't do any kind of damage without an SD and u are still suceptable to psychic/psyshock/ice beam damage
3. Lastly by certainly not least is choice specs, this set is probably not as good as the other 2 but it's capable of breaking/wearing down cores that even feature celesteela or scizor just by clicking stab Draco and psychic/shock. Specs latios can easily pave the way for another breaker in the back, ranging from the likes of mega altaria and comfey to fly z mence and more who appreciate the teirs fat steels being chipped or removed

Tl;dr
Latios seems very strong to me, I have tried everything from bronzong to stakataka to try and stop this thing, they all just get trapped or electrum z'd into the next century, that said I generally find a way to work arround it, whether that be taking a psychic with my swampert to get a crucial toxic or adamantly volting every time I let rotom hit the feild, I could definitely deal with it still in the tier but on paper it's definitely ban-able.

Click for broken set

free watermess council

thanks for reading

 

[Cold Apple Soda]

Latios
Ok so I'll do a quick post to summarize my thoughts
View attachment 227580
Points of interest
- electrum z
- dragonium z + zone
- choice spec

1. Electrum z latios is basically nigh unwallable, a the start of playing nat Dex UU I would use zone with my latis, but then I realized I could just use elec z and kill Celesteela and scizor after a CM anyway, these 2 would easily be considered 2 of the best counters to latios rn so it goes to show I guess how broken elec z can be!
2. Dragonium with zone to trap the afore mentioned steels is also incredibly strong, any team without bulu is gonna struggle not to lose a Mon if zone gets off its trap, since a +1 drag z hits like an absolute mother fkr! And even with bulu u don't do any kind of damage without an SD and u are still suceptable to psychic/psyshock/ice beam damage
3. Lastly by certainly not least is choice specs, this set is probably not as good as the other 2 but it's capable of breaking/wearing down cores that even feature celesteela or scizor just by clicking stab Draco and psychic/shock. Specs latios can easily pave the way for another breaker in the back, ranging from the likes of mega altaria and comfey to fly z mence and more who appreciate the teirs fat steels being chipped or removed

Tl;dr
Latios seems very strong to me, I have tried everything from bronzong to stakataka to try and stop this thing, they all just get trapped or electrum z'd into the next century, that said I generally find a way to work arround it, whether that be taking a psychic with my swampert to get a crucial toxic or adamantly volting every time I let rotom hit the feild, I could definitely deal with it still in the tier but on paper it's definitely ban-able.

Click for broken set

free watermess council

thanks for reading

I wanna just say i agree with all of this, not much else that needs to be added on why this mon is pretty oppressive imo. Being extremely versatile in sets and being equally as threatening. But i want to also shed some light on scarf latios as well. Not having as much power as the sets above but being able to outspeed key threats in the tier, such as scarf Hydrei, +1 speed Mence and plenty of other scarfers as well. And having a very powerful offensive presence due to its 130 base special attack. These two factors alone create a very potent cleaner and revenge killer. Adding in dual stabs of psychic/psyshock and draco do enough in this tier and running tbolt to hit steela for super effective damage.

Those are my thoughts on Latios atm.

 

[Rudy Doody]

Latios
Ok so I'll do a quick post to summarize my thoughts
View attachment 227580
Points of interest
- electrum z
- dragonium z + zone
- choice spec

1. Electrum z latios is basically nigh unwallable, a the start of playing nat Dex UU I would use zone with my latis, but then I realized I could just use elec z and kill Celesteela and scizor after a CM anyway, these 2 would easily be considered 2 of the best counters to latios rn so it goes to show I guess how broken elec z can be!
2. Dragonium with zone to trap the afore mentioned steels is also incredibly strong, any team without bulu is gonna struggle not to lose a Mon if zone gets off its trap, since a +1 drag z hits like an absolute mother fkr! And even with bulu u don't do any kind of damage without an SD and u are still suceptable to psychic/psyshock/ice beam damage
3. Lastly by certainly not least is choice specs, this set is probably not as good as the other 2 but it's capable of breaking/wearing down cores that even feature celesteela or scizor just by clicking stab Draco and psychic/shock. Specs latios can easily pave the way for another breaker in the back, ranging from the likes of mega altaria and comfey to fly z mence and more who appreciate the teirs fat steels being chipped or removed

Tl;dr
Latios seems very strong to me, I have tried everything from bronzong to stakataka to try and stop this thing, they all just get trapped or electrum z'd into the next century, that said I generally find a way to work arround it, whether that be taking a psychic with my swampert to get a crucial toxic or adamantly volting every time I let rotom hit the feild, I could definitely deal with it still in the tier but on paper it's definitely ban-able.

Click for broken set

free watermess council

thanks for reading

I agree because this mon has practically no switchins and forces sacks everytime it comes in on a favourable switchin

 

[VCrakeV]

Is there something that can check Terrakion while denying it from keeping up rocks? I was hoping to use Mega Sableye, but it gets blown back by SD rockium sets. Skarmory is bopped too.

Last gen I used Gligar, maybe I'll just have to settle for that again?