Metagame National Dex UU Metagame Discussion - Porygon-Z Banned

Lupla · May 23, 2022

Been a while since I posted, I was originally doing a VR post but I fucked up and it was deleted RIGHT when I was about to post it so I will do smth else since that one was boring.

Top 3 Picks

With the meta being more polished, we can finally discuss things that are prob more settled and less likely to change until a few months of meta shifts (If we win any smh). So I wanted to bring up my take on what are prob the top 3 mons in the current metagame (kinda similar to our top 10 voting from last time but more in depth and probably much more of a pain to read, which is why i preffered to cut it down to 3 mons instead of the intended 5).

Mega Altaria

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 248 HP / 160 Def / 100 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Hyper Voice
- Flamethrower/Fire Blast
- Roost
- Heal Bell / Defog / Toxic

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 68 HP / 252 SpA / 188 Spe or 248 HP / 160 SpA / 100 Spe
Modest Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Draco Meteor / Toxic / Earthquake
- Fire Blast
- Roost

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Pixilate
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant / Naughty Nature
- Dragon Dance
- Return / Facade
- Earthquake
- Fire Blast / Roost

Altaria-Mega @ Altarianite
Ability: Natural Cure
EVs: 248 HP / 208 Def / 52 Spe
Impish Nature
- Body Slam
- Roost
- Heal Bell / Refresh
- Dragon Dance

And your imagination for any other possible set

I think 90% of the people that play ND UU can agree that this mon has been born to be the face of current UU gens. Mega Altaria was born with nearly every single tool that allows it to fit into any archetype of teams, the face of Bulky Offense that can fit from Hyper Offense to even niche Stall or Fat Balances. The combination of movepool, stats and typing just fit perfectly and allows it to be one of the most splashable choices in the tier and a consistent performer even on the worst matchups since it can always adapt to it. Mono fairy can be scary in certain matchups but you also have coverage options that, while not really on a breaker level, are able to overwhelm teams pretty nicely (Support Flamethrower/Fire Blast, Dragon Dance in both offense and defense) while also keeping the defensive utility like Heal Bell and checking or countering threats like Zeraora, Urshifu-RS, Zarude, Rotom-Wash, Mienshao, Krookodile, Mega Manectric, Buzzwole, Rotom-Heat and a lot more without dropping any form of pressure, even the stuff it's not always safe to come in such as Azumarill, Salamence, Goltres and even Scizor, it finds its way to somewhat handle them if you really need to. While the meta always has some huge problematic matchups like Amoonguss, Scizor, Aegislash, Celesteela, Glowbro as well as the Melmetal ban popularizing the use of other steels like Cobalion, Mega Aggron or Bisharp, Mega Altaria remains strong and still keeps its status as the best pokemon in the metagame.

Scizor

Scizor @ Choice Band
Ability: Technician
EVs: 120 HP / 252 Atk / 136 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Bullet Punch
- U-turn
- Knock Off
- Superpower / Pursuit

Scizor @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 16 Atk / 236 SpD / 8 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Knock Off / U-Turn
- Roost

Scizor @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Swords Dance
- Bullet Punch
- Superpower
- Dual Wingbeat / Quick Attack

Scizor had quite the rough time when trying to keep up offensively since Melmetal has always been the premiere offensive steel while as Alakazam was forcing it to use defensive sets that, while good, weren't really remarkable enough to really make it a top tier threat, and now in the present day those two were banned and thus Scizor is capable of using its full potential that was always looked down upon. Choice Band is THE main set that arrived and it instantly became one of the best options available and made Scizor much more threatning compared to the slow pace of bulky SD variants. The bans also came with some notable changes, the most important one was the downfall of Skarmory which is huge for Scizor because one of its best counters became less common while as the other rises such as Celesteela, Glowbro, Zarude, Terrakion and specially Nihilego were beneficial for Scizor as well. Even thought Skarm dropped, its not like stuff like Moltres or the newcomer post-zam meta Salamence aren't around either, SD sets suffer from not being instantly threatning while as CB doesn't like the new spiker Roserade while not as problematic as Skarmory, the spikes that it easily lays down alongside the inability to use your defensive trades reliably make the longevity problem worse and even some of the mons that it checks like Terrakion, Nihilego, Aegislash or Zarude still give it a hard time, even the new steels are annoying to deal with (Cobalion being the main culprit) but regardless, Scizor finally took its old spot back as one of the top picks in the metagame.

Nihilego

Nihilego @ Power Herb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 80 HP / 176 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Meteor Beam
- Sludge Bomb
- Grass Knot
- Thunderbolt / Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes

Nihilego @ Black Sludge
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Stealth Rock / Toxic Spikes
- Power Gem
- Sludge Bomb
- Grass Knot / Knock Off

Talk about having a huge step up thanks to a single move. While the usual Nihilego was still a pretty good pokemon in its own right, Meteor Beam was an ABSURD buff that skyrocketed its viability. Having a nuke at your disposal that also powered up your other moves is nasty and it quickly became one of the main things you have to take into account when building a team or else you'd get 6-0 in the blink of an eye, the coverage of Grass Knot and Thunderbolt covers up a lot besides the Steels and half of them aren't even perfect Nihi checks since they are either more prone to dying by Nihi partners or Nihi itself (Scizor, Celesteela, Skarmory, Mega Steelix or Aegislash). While Meteor Beam sets on both Rocks and All Out Attacker variants are amazing, the support variants that run Power Gem for reliable stab and making more use of the typing to handle both Moltres, Post-Spore Amoonguss, Salamence, etc and making better progress agaisnt steels like Aegislash or Celesteela with Knock Off. Despite the raise of other Steels, Nihilego is an absolute menace that many people can agree its insanely good rn.

Honorable Mentions: :amoonguss:

If you have idea in what you're doing with the defensive cores that it can make, then its unkillable lol, stabs + hp fire is somehow more threatning than anything else on most matches and Spore is dumby good, probably the best Grass Type in the tier.

:urshifu-rapid-strike:

While pads fell off the moment it was announced, Choice Band is having a good time with all the Salamence, Mega Altaria and Amoonguss floating around since you can hit them with Ice Punch even harder, its just not as splashable as most top picks.

:aegislash:

SBall, CC, Toxic and Shield is absolutely amazing, a well rounded steel that can keep up in both offensive and defensive aspects compared to others (Especially for Nihilego) with great variety in its sets and a straight forward excellent pick.

:zarude:

Urshifu-RS syndrome, its still really good but the meta adapted on it, its the same All-In-One package of a mon (Amazing momentum, Water and Ground resist, status absorber, Rotom-W hard counter, etc) but not really that high for me.

3MoreMinutes · Jun 14, 2022

National Dex UU Summer Seasonal: Round One

Code:

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Scizor             |   34 |  33.33% |  64.71% |
| 2    | Rotom-Wash         |   28 |  27.45% |  50.00% |
| 3    | Altaria            |   27 |  26.47% |  48.15% |
| 3    | Hippowdon          |   27 |  26.47% |  40.74% |
| 5    | Zeraora            |   24 |  23.53% |  62.50% |
| 6    | Salamence          |   21 |  20.59% |  52.38% |
| 7    | Urshifu-*          |   19 |  18.63% |  57.89% |
| 7    | Aegislash          |   19 |  18.63% |  52.63% |
| 7    | Amoonguss          |   19 |  18.63% |  52.63% |
| 7    | Swampert           |   19 |  18.63% |  42.11% |
| 7    | Celesteela         |   19 |  18.63% |  36.84% |
| 12   | Moltres            |   18 |  17.65% |  38.89% |
| 13   | Manectric          |   15 |  14.71% |  66.67% |
| 14   | Tangrowth          |   13 |  12.75% |  53.85% |
| 15   | Terrakion          |   12 |  11.76% |  66.67% |
| 15   | Mienshao           |   12 |  11.76% |  50.00% |
| 17   | Nihilego           |   11 |  10.78% |  54.55% |
| 18   | Aggron             |   10 |   9.80% |  80.00% |
| 18   | Rhyperior          |   10 |   9.80% |  70.00% |
| 18   | Nidoking           |   10 |   9.80% |  60.00% |
| 18   | Slowking           |   10 |   9.80% |  50.00% |
| 22   | Skarmory           |    9 |   8.82% |  77.78% |
| 22   | Azelf              |    9 |   8.82% |  55.56% |
| 22   | Infernape          |    9 |   8.82% |  44.44% |
| 22   | Zarude-Dada        |    9 |   8.82% |  44.44% |
| 22   | Krookodile         |    9 |   8.82% |  44.44% |
| 22   | Beedrill           |    9 |   8.82% |  22.22% |
| 28   | Rotom-Heat         |    8 |   7.84% |  62.50% |
| 28   | Moltres-Galar      |    8 |   7.84% |  25.00% |
| 28   | Cobalion           |    8 |   7.84% |  12.50% |
| 31   | Mandibuzz          |    7 |   6.86% |  71.43% |
| 31   | Roserade           |    7 |   6.86% |  57.14% |
| 31   | Zygarde-10%        |    7 |   6.86% |  42.86% |
| 31   | Zarude             |    7 |   6.86% |  28.57% |
| 31   | Slowbro-Galar      |    7 |   6.86% |   0.00% |
| 36   | Pidgeot            |    6 |   5.88% |  83.33% |
| 36   | Keldeo             |    6 |   5.88% |  50.00% |
| 36   | Deoxys-Defense     |    6 |   5.88% |  33.33% |
| 36   | Dragonite          |    6 |   5.88% |  33.33% |
| 36   | Dracozolt          |    6 |   5.88% |  16.67% |
| 36   | Volcanion          |    6 |   5.88% |  16.67% |
| 42   | Primarina          |    5 |   4.90% |  80.00% |
| 43   | Sharpedo           |    4 |   3.92% |  50.00% |
| 44   | Breloom            |    3 |   2.94% |  66.67% |
| 44   | Nidoqueen          |    3 |   2.94% |  33.33% |
| 44   | Gastrodon          |    3 |   2.94% |  33.33% |
| 44   | Togekiss           |    3 |   2.94% |  33.33% |
| 44   | Donphan            |    3 |   2.94% |  33.33% |
| 44   | Hatterene          |    3 |   2.94% |  33.33% |
| 44   | Umbreon            |    3 |   2.94% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Florges-White      |    2 |   1.96% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Arctozolt          |    2 |   1.96% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Ninetales-Alola    |    2 |   1.96% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Porygon-Z          |    2 |   1.96% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Bisharp            |    2 |   1.96% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Chandelure         |    2 |   1.96% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Mamoswine          |    2 |   1.96% | 100.00% |
| 51   | Absol              |    2 |   1.96% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Conkeldurr         |    2 |   1.96% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Gligar             |    2 |   1.96% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Buzzwole           |    2 |   1.96% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Weezing-Galar      |    2 |   1.96% |   0.00% |
| 51   | Magneton           |    2 |   1.96% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Politoed           |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Seismitoad         |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Alomomola          |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Registeel          |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Cofagrigus         |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Suicune            |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Porygon2           |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Hoopa              |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Tapu Bulu          |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Toxtricity         |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Ribombee           |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Tornadus           |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Froslass           |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Comfey             |    1 |   0.98% | 100.00% |
| 64   | Crobat             |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Salazzle           |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Regieleki          |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Braviary           |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Azumarill          |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Ambipom            |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Gallade            |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Vikavolt           |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Banette            |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Empoleon           |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Feraligatr         |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Houndoom           |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Celebi             |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Golurk             |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Frosmoth           |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |
| 64   | Noivern            |    1 |   0.98% |   0.00% |

We've finally got a decent volume of tour games in NDUU, which means we can make some more solid conclusions about the state of the tier. Having this data in a tier which has been largely developed in friendlies between a few people is quite exciting. I thought it would be worthwhile to look through the stats, I'll comment on what I find interesting. You can also just look at the usage stats if you want, I don't think they've been compiled elsewhere.

:SS/Scizor:

Scizor was not only the most used mon by a decent margin, it boasted an incredible 65% winrate (more impressive at high usage). Without Melm it has started to take advantage of its versatility, with all of Choice Band, Swords Dance, and 3 attack pivot sets being used. This mon has been getting better and better, and I expect to see it experiment with more sets to handle the meta's adaptations.

:SS/Altaria-Mega:

Altaria indisputably remains the clear best mega in the tier, but we've begun to see others get results. Manectric, Aggron, and Pidgeot all have exceptional winrates, and they should continue to be used more. Manectric in particular is seeing quite high usage, and seems to have become much easier to fit on teams following Melmetal's ban.

:SS/Urshifu-Rapid-Strike:

The big scary breakers of NDUU all had success this week, especially the previously underrated ones in Terrakion and Nidoking. Neither is anywhere near as common as Urshifu, but all three have proven to consistently influence games when they come out. With the exceptional pivots available in the tier, these heavy hitters should continue to have success.

:SS/Skarmory:

These balance/bulky offense staples have had success in the first week, coming either in the form of high usage or a high winrate. Simple mons which do their jobs well, they will continue to be solid.
:SS/Moltres-Galar:

The birds have struggled slightly in the first week, all with winrates below 40%. Moltres-Galar being disappointing is interesting and should be taken into account for its suspect, but its usage is not high enough for this week's stats to be meaningful. Celesteela's offensive sets have continued to have success but the defensive ones' inability to keep momentum has been abused. Moltres has struggled slightly with common switch ins in Nihilego, Rotom-Wash, Rhyperior, and Hippowdon only increasing in popularity. Despite this, all three should be expected to do better in future weeks, their difficulties can largely be attributed to variance.

:SS/Primarina:

These are some very good pokemon which saw exceptionally low usage. Just thought I'd highlight them out of hope that people might start using them more.

:SS/Beedrill-Mega:

Not surprised but disappointed these got usage. Beedrill is straight up bad in the current meta. Its useful attributes have become much less important. Its tragic 22% winrate backs this up, especially in comparison to its success in past tours. I thought it was funny that Breloom managed a 67% winrate this week, we'll see if it's able to keep it up (spoiler: it won't).

There is plenty more to talk about, 50 tour games is a ton for NDUU. I'd love to see more thoughts on what we've seen, and I'm excited to see what the rest of the tour brings.

Iride · Jul 20, 2022

VoltTurn in NatDex UU

VoltTurn has always been an archetype that I've enjoyed building, and while it's certainly had some moments before, I really feel as if the archetype couldn't have asked for better circumstances. So here it finally is, a full-on comprehensive guide to making your own successful VoltTurn team, and some insight behind why I think it's really strong currently.

***

Why use VoltTurn?

Pivoting has always been a cornerstone of many offensive structures ever since it was fully realized in the 4th generation, giving many potent attackers a chance to safely hit the field in spite of their defensive shortcomings with the advent of U-turn. With a way to provide teams with the ability to reliably force damage on the opposition while maintaining momentum in a process, Offense gained a significant benefit in allowing the user to pick their spots and maintain switch advantage over their opponent, giving said archetypes the edge needed to keep up with the bulkier states of the metagame despite their inherent lack of longevity in comparison. Come the addition of Volt Switch in the generation afterwards, the increased prominence of switch moves and users only further augmented this concept, as now they could be easily chained together to incredible effect with unmatched consistency at wearing down the opposition. Allowing the combination of VoltTurn to successfully have its time in the limelight.

***

Common VoltTurn Users

(Click on the sprites for movesets)

Mega Manectric is easily one of the main Pokemon that comes to mind on a VoltTurn team, as it possesses one of the highest Speed tiers available, and plenty of coverage to go alongside its sizable base 135 Sp. Attack stat. Being one of the largest threats to many opposing offensively teams that cannot easily withstand over the course of the game, with several great moves at its disposal that also allows it to beat its few switch-ins, namely Overheat for Grass and Steel-types and HP Grass for Ground-types such as Rhyperior, alongside Volt Switch to round out its options against defense, a move that is also highly intuitive for its ability to acquire significant chip damage against most bulkier targets with how easily it can be spammed against most offensive Pokemon threatened by it. Intimidate is also massively useful for helping its team play around threats such as Scizor and Arctozolt, and combines with the rest to make for an incredibly reliable and useful pivot that you will rarely want to consider foregoing when teambuilding.

Scizor makes its name at the top of the metagame as one of its most defining and splashable aspects. Simply put, Scizor's set versatility as the king of the tier makes it far too detrimental to not consider on most teams in some form, VoltTurn included. Between its great typing, good bulk, and ever-reliable Bullet Punches to make it an effective stop to a plethora of offensive threats within the tier, ranging from Mega Altaria to Terrakion. Scizor also becomes quite the useful beneficiary to have defensively, with the best part of it all being its ability to perform this role while remaining incredibly dangerous itself. Choice Band is usually the main set that appears on these teams, as the extra power can often be key in maximizing Scizor's potential as a pivot and revenge killer extraordinaire on the archetype, with additional moveset options being Pursuit to enable other wallbreakers such as Keldeo by removing checks like Slowking, or Dual Wingbeat and Superpower to act as coverage options. However, Scizor can also prioritize its defensive uses via bulky Roost sets, improving its longevity in the process while giving it the potential to sweep with Swords Dance.

With a monstrous base Attack stat of 130 and two reliable high-powered STABs in Surging Strikes and Close Combat, combined with the aftermentioned VoltTurn support to reliably facilitate opportunities for it. Choice Band Urshifu-RS is to put it lightly, an absolute menace for anything to face and easily one of the strongest wallbreakers you could consider for this type of team, along with being one of the hardest punishes to defensive Ground-types that would otherwise trouble most VoltTurn teams. Very few defensive Pokemon can reliably stand up to its insane power long-term and its access to U-turn also allows it to crucially wear down and scout those few switch-ins for its common teammates to exploit. However, Urshifu-RS's lack of longevity against Rocky Helmet and Spikes can also be equally daunting to account for if not careful, so it usually pairs best with Defog support from either Moltres or Rotom-Wash, and the usual selection of faster pivots and Knock Off users to handle the things it may be forced out by, although the latter can be somewhat patched up by running Aqua Jet instead, which gives it additional utility in being able to revenge kill chipped Nihilego and Terrakion over coverage.

Zeraora, while not as offensively inclined to fit on VoltTurn as its main competition Mega Manectric, can still more than make up for it with its improved consistency and reliability at progressing through neutral matchups across the board. Heavy-Duty Boots are crucial for it, as they allow it to consistently pivot in and out of battle without being crippled by the effects of hazards, while its access to Knock Off can be huge for enabling many threats to break past their checks unimpeded via the removal of opposing Boots, Rocky Helmet, or Leftovers, a significant benefit to have with how easily this can be facilitated by Zeraora's extra speed. It also synergizes well with many slower wallbreakers in the tier, since they appreciate its consistency at revenge killing most Pokemon that would pose a problem, while enjoying its Volt Switch support to boot.

Swampert's good mixed bulk and combination of useful resistances make it a very reliable Stealth Rock setter on VoltTurn, as it gets many opportunities to use the move against the majority of offensive Pokemon it switches into, and more importantly, can also use Flip Turn to get its wallbreaking teammates in safely after the fact. It's even fairly customizable in the last slot, as aside from being able to use Toxic to cripple most defensive walls or Defoggers attempting to stay on it, it can also potentially utilize other options to further support its team in different ways; Ice Beam to immediately weaken Salamence in range for a physical attacking teammate to run rampant, or one of Roar or Yawn to phaze out a threatening wincon such as SubToxic Aegislash or Calm Mind Galarian Slowbro that just got a free turn. Additionally, Swampert's slow Flip Turn is also notable for its ability to underspeed and reset momentum against Celesteela, a wall that can otherwise trouble most offensive teams with the combination of Leech Seed + Protect.

Rotom-Wash's primary role as a bulky pivot hinges on a significant defensive niche that also fulfills several crucial aspects on VoltTurn teams. Notably, it fits the criteria of being the archetype's best Defogger, synergizes very well with other offensive Pokemon such as Scizor that can easily cover its weaknesses against Grass-types, and with STAB Hydro Pump to deter the majority of Ground-types from attempting to block Volt Switch, remains effective at facilitating VoltTurn cores. It also has an excellent defensive typing that allows it to check many prominent offensive Pokemon such as Moltres, offensive Celesteela, Mamoswine, Special Salamence, and Rhyperior. Similar to Swampert, Rotom-Wash even has the massive benefit of being able to easily tweak its moveset and EV spread to accommodate for its team's personal preferences when needed, such as spreading burns with Will-O-Wisp to neuter dangerous setup sweepers while making setting up with teammates like Terrakion easier, or even Thunder Wave to enable slower wallbreakers such as Banded Bisharp.

***

Now that I've given you a bit to think about, here are some common partners to consider that can help diversify and cover the gaps in your VoltTurn team, while still making it plenty effective.

Common VoltTurn Partners

Wallbreakers are often essential to have on a VoltTurn team if you haven't considered adding one already, and their difficult-to-counter nature is easily exacerbated by the many free turns given to them by their teammates, often securing a winning matchup for these hefty hitters to exploit and break a notable hole in the process. The free turns given to them are even useful to have from a defensive standpoint, as the riskless entry allowing them to preserve their HP in order to take one such hit when needed can be crucial for getting the most out of their offensive abilities throughout a match, like with using Terrakion's bulk to take hits such as Swampert's Earthquake and guarantee a Swords Dance in the endgame, or being able to keep Nidoking healthy to safely deter a Nihilego from clicking its STABs.

Since VoltTurn teams are usually focused on overwhelming the opponent's defensive core before they can gain an extensive advantage over them with the amount of switching that is often forced, any form of residual damage these teams can add to the mix is appreciated. Generally, you want your hazard setter to minimize the risk of losing momentum while being able to safely maneuver around the opponent's play if necessary, and to that end, the best hazard setters usually consist of those that can provide the most ideal balance between general offensive threat potential and defensive utility. This includes examples such as Nihilego, which aside from being able to set Stealth Rock and check offensive Fire-types such as Moltres, also poses a massive threat in return with its great offensive stats, Knock Off to potentially cripple an incoming switch-in for its teammates to exploit, or sweeping potential with its Meteor Beam variant, and Rhyperior, which can deal significant damage with its high Attack and good coverage, or Swords Dance on the switch to break through defensive checks more easily.

Likewise, the amount of switching that occurs can also be a good thing for the team defensively, as these Regenerator Pokemon can frequently benefit from this exchange to consistently stay at high HP and perform their designated roles. Aside from this, the defensive utility that these two can offer is also significant enough in itself to warrant their place here, as Amoonguss provides the team with a crucial check to a large portion of the offensive metagame, and can also threaten something back with Spore in return for an offensive teammate to potentially capitalize on throughout the game, while Slowking provides the team with the coveted FuturePort combination to enable many wallbreakers as well as a strong specially defensive pivot with longevity despite its Pursuit weakness.

***

Sample Team:

This team largely centers around the classic VoltTurn core of Mega Manectric + Banded Scizor, which have great offensive synergy with each other and strong matchups against most offensive Pokemon in general, while Deoxys-D also further supports it with Spikes against bulkier teams, and can easily exploit most of the passive Grounds to gain multiple opportunities to do this throughout a match. Swampert provides Rocks + Flip Turn and a crucial check to Electric-types that can also pivot into most Hurricanes. Moltres provides emergency Defog support, and keeps dangerous Pokemon such as Aegislash and Bisharp in check offensively. Amoonguss helps Swampert play around opposing Mega Manectric and works with Moltres to maneuver around dangerous Fighting-types such as Mienshao by covering its Knock Off weakness for it.

***

Conclusion:

So that just about does it for VoltTurn, an all-around excellent and fun playstyle in the current metagame that only looks to be improving with the vastly freed-up teambuilding space. I'm pretty glad to have finally gotten this post out, and I hope you've enjoyed it as much as I did since you've managed to get to the end. Thanks for reading!

N_Mareanie · Jul 23, 2022

After the Thundurus-Therian suspect concludes - no matter the outcome - I’d like to propose the following:

:ss/Hydreigon:

A Hydreigon retest from UUBL.

Back in the early stages of the metagame, Hydreigon was reigning the tier as one of the best Pokemon within the metagame. Its unique Dragon / Dark typing, Levitate ability and fantastic coverage all made it a threat all teams had to prepare for. Couple this with its new boosting move Nasty Plot, it quickly rose among the top spot of offensive wallbreakers in the tier. Unlike SS UU, Hydreigon has access to Z-Moves, which made it incredibly hard to consistently counter. This led to the use of many niche options such as Babiri Berry Florges and Sylveon to be able to tank a +2 Steelium Z - Pokemon that were not that good outside of checking Hydreigon. However, this was way early in the meta. The current meta could not be any more different than back then, and I believe the teambuilder has been freed up enough for Hydreigon to be potentially a healthy addition to ND UU. I’ll explain why.

There is sufficient offensive counterplay.

First of all, Hydreigon has a pretty mediocre speed tier for a Pokemon that would like to wreak offensive havoc. With a base speed of 98, Hydreigon finds itself outspeed by very common metagame staples such as Terrakion, Keldeo, Mienshao, Draco Meteor Salamence and Close Combat Zeraora.

You’ll probably see some metagame changes - some Zarude may opt to run Close Combat more often (a great option for Bisharp, Cobalion and opposing Zarude as well) and some Azelf may run now start running Dazzling Gleam - a nice way to still hit Zarude while also improving your matchup vs Mega Altaria and Mandibuzz.

There being enough offensive counterplay means that Hydreigon will often lack the opportunity to even set up a Nasty Plot. There are not many Pokemon in the tier that give Hydreigon free setup opportunities - and even if it does get up a Nasty Plot - it’s prone to be revenge killed by a large portion of the tier. It is very comparable to Terrakion in that sense; if it sets up it has little to no defensive counterplay (though, it is very arguable that Terrakion has even less defensive counterplay. Hydreigon is at least very well checked by Pokemon like Primarina and Azumarill), but has enough offensive answers to not make it broken.

We banned Hoopa-U a while ago for mostly its Nasty Plot set, and is even slower than Hydreigon. Why would Hydreigon suddenly be manageable?

A good question, and I wondered this myself for some time. I always found myself using the logic in the question, that if Hoopa-U was broken, there would be no world where Hydreigon would be fine to deal with. But the big difference between the two is secondary STAB. Dragon as a secondary STAB is so significantly worse than a Psychic STAB. Psychic and Psyshock are both great moves and have little to absolutely no drawback. Hydreigon however, has to choose between Dragon Pulse (which is quite weak - only 85BP) or Draco Meteor, a move that lowers your Special Attack with a whole 2 stages. A -2 Hydreigon is quite easy to take advantage of and offers many setup sweepers like Swords Dance Terrakion, Swords Dance Scizor, Autotomize Celesteela or Bulk Up Zeraora to take the stage.

Draco Meteor’s downside also means Choiced sets are significantly easier to take advantage of than Choiced Hoopa-U. Hydreigon obviously has U-turn, which is great, but it’s still undesirable to lock yourself into a Dark or Dragon move where Mega Altaria still reigns supreme. The Choiced sets were also never part of the problem in the past.

The difference in raw damage output is also just not comparable. Hydreigon has base 125 Special Attack, which is great, but falls flat in comparison to Hoopa-Unbounds astonishing base 170. I will not even go further into this, it should be obvious why these Pokemon are actually not that comparable.

Hydreigon would be a healthy addition to the meta.

Last of all, Hydreigon would have a very positive effect on the meta. It holds a lot of traits in one slot which can be a real lstruggle to find in current teambuilding.

It gives us an additional user of Choice Scarf. Our tier is quite slow and having another viable Choice Scarf user which is capable of revenge killing or heavily denting Pokemon like Thundurus-T, Terrakion and Zeraora is great. It also naturally outspeeds Urshifu-RS, a great feat.
It is a great check to Aegislash, Rotom-H and Deoxys-D. Aegislash can still screw it over with a well timed Close Combat or Toxic, but having extra offensive pressure is never bad. Nasty Plot Rotom-H can still be extremely difficult to defensively counter, so Hydreigon would be a great help with that. Nasty Plot or Taunt variants shut down demon Deoxys-D, which can still be a very annoying matchup fish.
Additional hazard removal. We have found a good amount of viable hazard removers for a while now, but Hydreigon would be a great user of it as well. Being immune to Spikes is huge, and has Roost for longevity.

There are probably a few minor things I’ve missed, but these are the main reasons I believe Hydreigon would be a positive addition to the metagame.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

All in all, I personally believe Hydreigon deserves a retest back to ND UU. I truly believe that if Pokemon like Terrakion are fine enough to deal with, that we don’t have to worry about Hydreigon. I sincerely hope the council considers this one and thinks it through, as I firmly believe it’d fix a lot of the current issues the tier is facing.

Have a nice day. Peace!

If y’all don’t want to do this, suspect Terrakion instead

Lupla · Aug 2, 2022

National Dex UU Summer Seasonal Round 3-8

Code:

+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| Rank | Pokemon            | Use  | Usage % |  Win %  |
+ ---- + ------------------ + ---- + ------- + ------- +
| 1    | Scizor             |   81 |  40.10% |  54.32% |
| 2    | Hippowdon          |   56 |  27.72% |  57.14% |
| 3    | Altaria            |   55 |  27.23% |  47.27% |
| 4    | Zeraora            |   45 |  22.28% |  46.67% |
| 5    | Skarmory           |   44 |  21.78% |  54.55% |
| 6    | Swampert           |   38 |  18.81% |  52.63% |
| 6    | Salamence          |   38 |  18.81% |  44.74% |
| 8    | Amoonguss          |   37 |  18.32% |  51.35% |
| 9    | Celesteela         |   34 |  16.83% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Moltres            |   32 |  15.84% |  50.00% |
| 10   | Urshifu-*          |   32 |  15.84% |  40.62% |
| 12   | Nihilego           |   29 |  14.36% |  48.28% |
| 13   | Mienshao           |   28 |  13.86% |  46.43% |
| 14   | Slowking           |   26 |  12.87% |  53.85% |
| 14   | Aegislash          |   26 |  12.87% |  53.85% |
| 16   | Keldeo             |   25 |  12.38% |  48.00% |
| 17   | Rotom-Wash         |   23 |  11.39% |  60.87% |
| 18   | Rotom-Heat         |   22 |  10.89% |  45.45% |
| 19   | Tangrowth          |   19 |   9.41% |  57.89% |
| 19   | Terrakion          |   19 |   9.41% |  42.11% |
| 19   | Nidoking           |   19 |   9.41% |  31.58% |
| 22   | Manectric          |   18 |   8.91% |  50.00% |
| 23   | Rhyperior          |   17 |   8.42% |  47.06% |
| 24   | Roserade           |   16 |   7.92% |  43.75% |
| 25   | Slowbro-Galar      |   15 |   7.43% |  40.00% |
| 26   | Volcanion          |   14 |   6.93% |  50.00% |
| 27   | Zarude             |   13 |   6.44% |  61.54% |
| 27   | Sharpedo           |   13 |   6.44% |  46.15% |
| 27   | Umbreon            |   13 |   6.44% |  23.08% |
| 30   | Reuniclus          |   12 |   5.94% |  75.00% |
| 30   | Aggron             |   12 |   5.94% |  58.33% |
| 30   | Bisharp            |   12 |   5.94% |  33.33% |
| 33   | Nidoqueen          |   11 |   5.45% |  63.64% |
| 33   | Mandibuzz          |   11 |   5.45% |  63.64% |
| 33   | Alomomola          |   11 |   5.45% |  54.55% |
| 33   | Dragonite          |   11 |   5.45% |  54.55% |
| 33   | Pidgeot            |   11 |   5.45% |  45.45% |
| 33   | Dracozolt          |   11 |   5.45% |  36.36% |
| 33   | Zarude-Dada        |   11 |   5.45% |  36.36% |
| 40   | Deoxys-Defense     |   10 |   4.95% |  70.00% |
| 40   | Buzzwole           |   10 |   4.95% |  50.00% |
| 42   | Primarina          |    9 |   4.46% |  66.67% |
| 42   | Mamoswine          |    9 |   4.46% |  44.44% |
| 42   | Azelf              |    9 |   4.46% |  33.33% |
| 45   | Ninetales-Alola    |    8 |   3.96% |  87.50% |
| 45   | Arctozolt          |    8 |   3.96% |  87.50% |
| 45   | Krookodile         |    8 |   3.96% |  50.00% |
| 45   | Gastrodon          |    8 |   3.96% |  50.00% |
| 49   | Chandelure         |    7 |   3.47% |  85.71% |
| 49   | Hatterene          |    7 |   3.47% |  71.43% |
| 51   | Cobalion           |    6 |   2.97% |  66.67% |
| 51   | Zygarde-10%        |    6 |   2.97% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Tapu Bulu          |    6 |   2.97% |  50.00% |
| 51   | Gligar             |    6 |   2.97% |  33.33% |
| 51   | Ribombee           |    6 |   2.97% |  33.33% |
| 56   | Infernape          |    5 |   2.48% |  40.00% |
| 56   | Porygon-Z          |    5 |   2.48% |  40.00% |
| 56   | Stoutland          |    5 |   2.48% |  40.00% |
| 56   | Bronzong           |    5 |   2.48% |  20.00% |
| 60   | Noivern            |    4 |   1.98% | 100.00% |
| 60   | Weezing-Galar      |    4 |   1.98% |  75.00% |
| 60   | Beedrill           |    4 |   1.98% |  75.00% |
| 60   | Chesnaught         |    4 |   1.98% |  75.00% |
| 60   | Salazzle           |    4 |   1.98% |  50.00% |
| 60   | Muk-Alola          |    4 |   1.98% |  25.00% |
| 60   | Sylveon            |    4 |   1.98% |  25.00% |
| 67   | Sceptile           |    3 |   1.49% |  66.67% |
| 67   | Quagsire           |    3 |   1.49% |  66.67% |
| 67   | Steelix            |    3 |   1.49% |  66.67% |
| 67   | Necrozma           |    3 |   1.49% |  33.33% |
| 67   | Tornadus           |    3 |   1.49% |  33.33% |
| 67   | Absol              |    3 |   1.49% |  33.33% |
| 67   | Dhelmise           |    3 |   1.49% |  33.33% |
| 67   | Feraligatr         |    3 |   1.49% |   0.00% |
| 67   | Hoopa              |    3 |   1.49% |   0.00% |
| 67   | Jellicent          |    3 |   1.49% |   0.00% |
| 77   | Toxtricity         |    2 |   0.99% | 100.00% |
| 77   | Articuno           |    2 |   0.99% |  50.00% |
| 77   | Sneasel            |    2 |   0.99% |  50.00% |
| 77   | Diancie            |    2 |   0.99% |  50.00% |
| 77   | Drapion            |    2 |   0.99% |  50.00% |
| 77   | Regieleki          |    2 |   0.99% |  50.00% |
| 77   | Cresselia          |    2 |   0.99% |  50.00% |
| 77   | Porygon2           |    2 |   0.99% |  50.00% |
| 77   | Marowak-Alola      |    2 |   0.99% |  50.00% |
| 77   | Seismitoad         |    2 |   0.99% |   0.00% |
| 77   | Froslass           |    2 |   0.99% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Xatu               |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Glastrier          |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Stakataka          |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Malamar            |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Mimikyu            |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Pyukumuku          |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Darmanitan         |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Comfey             |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Camerupt           |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Copperajah         |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Espeon             |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Diggersby          |    1 |   0.50% | 100.00% |
| 88   | Gallade            |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Honchkrow          |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Vikavolt           |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Banette            |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Empoleon           |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Incineroar         |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Haxorus            |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Mantine            |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Houndoom           |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Celebi             |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Golurk             |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Starmie            |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Vanilluxe          |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Politoed           |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Abomasnow          |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Crawdaunt          |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |
| 88   | Tentacruel         |    1 |   0.50% |   0.00% |

Considering i have been kinda dead in threads compared to before and mareanie wanting me to do something im gonna take the stuff that he compiled up and make a post for him. These Usage Stats go from Round 3 to Round 9, taking place after the Galarian Moltres ban so no Round 2 unfortunately.

:ss/scizor:

The amount of usage Scizor has gotten is outstanding, showing how it never falls down and only getting better and better. Its versatility and adaptation is well known (Choice Band, Swords Dance both bulky and offensive, 3a Roost), with a win rate of 54.32% being really high with such usage, it shows off that, without a single doubt, this mon is the current face of the National Dex UU Metagame.

:ss/altaria-mega:

M-Altaria has been discussed about in how it has fallen down and that could be reflected in its significantly low win rate (alongside 2 mons im gonna mention later) if we compare it to the other high picks but nevertheless it remains a strong force with a good amount of flexibility. The other megas had also been doing fine despite their low usage and the newcomer, M-Sharpedo, is getting a spot alongside its fellow megas presumably as an All Out Attacker for Spikes Stacking teams but it hasn't really done much.

:ss/hippowdon:

Hippowdon has been getting more popular thanks to its pure Ground typing, excellent bulk, longevity and Stealth Rock support, being a reliable counter or check for Electrics like Zeraora or Mega Manectric, fearsome attackers like Terrakion and M-Altaria, etc while being able to outlast the defoggers like Salamence or Rotom-Wash with Toxic and the formation of cores with other walls like Amoonguss makes it an easy fit for most Balance builds and sometimes Bulky Offense

:ss/zeraora:

These mons are without a doubt pretty great and they are part of the top 10 in usage stats but their win rates don't really match up that well. Zeraora is the main speed control in the tier with a nearly unmatched speed and also a good progress maker but the rise in Hippowdon certainly doesn't make it happy, Salamence on the other hand while being the main shifu answer does not suit it at all and its sometimes way too abusable when being a defogger due to the lack of Draco on matchups like Nihilego or Rotom-Wash doesn't mean its bad either, it's able to soft check a bunch of the tier and 3a Roost makes it a good way to punish the offensive threats that it switches into, both are down but not out.

:ss/skarmory:

Standard meta mons that have been doing the same thing, Celesteela, Amoonguss, Aegislash and Nihilego in my opinion should be used more, Urshifu-RS really did took a hit, Mienshao and Slowking are just vibing and Skarm got an unexpected good run in general.

:ss/terrakion:

These breakers REALLY are taking the L here, despite both being considered as scary wallbreakers and one of them literally defines the speed tier benchmark, they have gotten mid results in general so gotta hope this goes up for the last rounds.

:ss/umbreon:

I could list some more but this is unfunny, one of the reasons ND RU sucks :(

I might of had missed something more interesting since there are some heat content that's hanging around but i don't wanna make the post any longer. The tournament has been really fun and im kinda sad that i got kicked on flip ~~and even mad because my opp contacted me 2 days after that LMFAO~~ but its still poggers. This is probably a lame af post but honestly i didn't know how to explain myself in the first place lol but i hope yall at least kinda liked it and see yall soon!

Arishem win

N_Mareanie · Aug 31, 2022

Stealing this from NDRU but whatever, thanks Dorron

Ok so now the tour is over (congrats to Runoisch and Meminger21 for reaching the finals), I'd personally love that people who have reached a decent round of the tour shared their thoughts about the metagame, VR nominations, teams they have used and sets they have tried so we can make the tier much more accessible for new players. Tagging them, don't feel obligated.

Runoisch Meminger21 dunoks Arishem crying Ryuji-Sempai Huargensy R1C3M4N nvk BaddyGames BugGoBrrrrrr Gangsta Spongebob

R1C3M4N · Sep 1, 2022

N_Mareanie said:
Stealing this from NDRU but whatever, thanks Dorron

Ok so now the tour is over (congrats to Runoisch and Meminger21 for reaching the finals), I'd personally love that people who have reached a decent round of the tour shared their thoughts about the metagame, VR nominations, teams they have used and sets they have tried so we can make the tier much more accessible for new players. Tagging them, don't feel obligated.

Since I am now obligated to share my thoughts about the metagame, I'm going to share some of my thoughts on some mons.
:ss/urshifu-rapid-strike:

Somehow all my teams always crumple to this thing. This is probably a good indication that I need to build with more amoonguss, but I've seen plenty replays where the urshifu eventually wears down the amoonguss whether its with the help of future port or just through hitting it with banded ice punches, ccs, and hazards. shifu is also a pretty solid answer to the s tier mon scizor and even has versatility in running the nasty taunt pads and scarf to destroy frailer teams and revenge kill big threats. imo urshifu is worthy of s but I'm too lazy to write this and a vr post so it'd be nice if you saw this council.

:ss/bisharp:

Bisharp @ Choice Band
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch/Beat Up
- Iron Head
- Pursuit

bisharp dropping is kind of confusing to me. The reason for that is because I remember running z scizor back in weavile meta and still losing to bisharp. Despite z scizor in theory being a good knock absorber, it fails to check bisharp well at all. Banded straight up has a chance to 2hko after rocks chip, and that's with the most defense any scizor is running.
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 244 Def Scizor: 135-160 (39.3 - 46.6%) -- 31.3% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock
Most scizors are running spdef to check aegislash, and more offensive scizors are being used, and these just get destroyed.
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Knock Off vs. 248 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 169-201 (49.2 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock
252+ Atk Choice Band Bisharp Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Scizor: 255-300 (90.7 - 106.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
And I haven't even mentioned that most scizor variants can barely touch bisharp. Even z uturn from standard fat scizor doesn't ohko bisharp, so bisharp is pretty free to fish for crits and scizor desperately roosts to full to have a chance at checking bisharp the next time it comes in.
16+ Atk Scizor Savage Spin-Out (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Bisharp: 211-249 (77.8 - 91.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Other dark resists absorbers either hate losing their item (keldeo, urshifu) or get destroyed by banded iron head (terrak, malt), and some of these take a ton of damage from banded knock anyways.
Of course, bisharp is not just relegated to breaking duties, although it does that very well. Bisharp is probably the best pursuit trapper in the game and is great at getting rid of sub toxic aegi, although you'll have to watch out for sub cc sets (btw beat up bisharp is pretty good too if you don't need sucker!) It also pursuits a huge amount of walls that don't want to take a knock such as swampert, amoonguss, and friends, facilitating a ton of dangerous special attackers.

:ss/slowbro-galar:

(lmao i accidentally posted the glowking sprite at first)

Slowbro-Galar @ Rocky Helmet/Colbur Berry/Firium Z
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Calm Mind
- Slack Off
- Sludge Bomb/Psyshock
- Scald/Fire Blast

This thing is finally getting the recognition is deserves, and I'm all for it. It's basically glowking 2.0 (don't think i need to reiterate how dumb poisons and burns are), and less pursuit in the meta along with better physical bulk means it might actually be better than glowking. The only thing holding it back is its lackluster spdef, but many special threats are easily worn down with sludge bomb poisons, walled because of glowbros typing, and just can't touch it after 1 or 2 boosts. It actually acts as a pretty good check to urshifu with a helmet since you take surging strikes decently well and can regen back some of the damage. Oh, and this is another reason to use bisharp.

BugGoBrrrrrr · Sep 1, 2022

Oh I get to give input? Well then…time to dump my whole builder into this :)

Zygarde-10% @ Choice Band
Ability: Aura Break
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Thousand Arrows
- Extreme Speed
- Outrage
- Toxic

If you run glare I’m legally allowed to disown you, just so you know

Mans best friend is a p strong breaker / cleaner in the nduu tier solely because a lot of people don’t respect it enough in builder. Most people don’t carry ground resists due to Amoonguss being the staple grass and instead rely on immunes (rotom-wash, salamence, rotom-heat etc.) which Clifford here preys on. There are some non resist mons that can eat such as Mandi and Hippo but you can toxic / outrage them.

https://pokepast.es/347f94a1929ddf37

https://pokepast.es/bfdd5bbe1d03111c

Crobat @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Infiltrator
EVs: 48 HP / 252 Atk / 208 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Brave Bird
- Taunt
- Roost
- U-turn

You can run super fang if you really wanna stall break but it’s not needed taunt bb does a good enough job

Bruce doesn’t get enough recognition as a good fast pivot that can supply a team with good taunt utility and stall breaking capabilities. I’ve grown a liking for this mon purely due to the fact it is such a good way to annoy common defensive cores and take advantage of the repetitive nature of them to pivot into threats freely. With how fast Batman is he can revenge several threats such as keldeo terrak and big daddy urshifu. Overall I really hate to see this thing in C and think it should atleast be B-. ~~Mudkip I’ll give you 10$ ;)~~

https://pokepast.es/16c3f2b872a929cb

God (Pidgeot-Mega) @ Pidgeotite
Ability: Big Pecks
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hurricane
- Heat Wave
- U-turn
- Roost

If you know me you knew this was coming, Perc Poppin is the star of the first halfway decent nduu team I made (even got a rmt for it) and to this day I stand by it being a great breaking mega. Now while that team had some flaws it wasn’t Pushin P’s fault it was because I refused to double up on waters and ran defog Rotom-Heat, I know, I’m an awful person. Anyways, Patrick sets itself apart from the other flyers through sheer power paired with never miss hurricane and amazing speed sitting above even Zydog and Azelf, it also has the benefit of higher bp fire coverage then mence and being able to pivot. ~~We don’t talk about how terrak can’t miss edge against it.~~ This is another mon that I’m saddened to see so low on the VR and think it deserves a raise. ~~Mudkip the offer still stands~~

https://pokepast.es/767b6162c958c825

Buzzwole @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 204 HP / 32 Atk / 160 Def / 112 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Close Combat
- Earthquake
- Ice Punch
- Roost

Daddy has been showing itself to be a great breaker and check / counter to several Physics attackers such as Zydog Zarude and banded Scizor. Johnny packs a massive attack stat of 139 along with great physical bulk of 107hp/139def~~/53spdef~~, due to this he can easily function as a bulky check to physical attackers while applying great pressure onto the opponents team. Buzzington can struggle to break through things such as Amoonguss, MAlt, Tangrowth, Slowking and Hippodwon so pairing it with a future sight mon such as Slowking or assault vest Glowbro makes for a great bulky offensive core, he also appreciates spikes support from Roserade to help break through these checks.

https://pokepast.es/7b8d893a19b1ec6c

https://pokepast.es/0e965c796e2f4640

Rotom-Wash @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 248 HP / 52 SpA / 208 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Volt Switch
- Hydro Pump
- Trick
- Defog

We all know what Tide Pods does, it’s an annoying bulky pivot with nigh unblockable volt switch, now slap a choice scarf on it so it can cripple mons such as Tangrowth, Amoonguss, Swampert, Gastrodon and really any bulky mon your team might struggle with. Choice scarf also lets it revenge pokemon such as Keldeo / Urshifu / Terrakion while still being a good way of defogging. It really appreciates being paired with smth such as Salamence, Pidgeot-Mega, Tornadus, Roserade, Nihilego, Nidoking / queen or Moltres that take advantage of the grass types it drags in. Choice scarf has recently been my favorite set for Rotom and I highly recommend using it.

https://pokepast.es/f8d15fd8d690c00d

https://pokepast.es/44dfc7f92426b905

Dracozolt @ Dragonium Z
Ability: Sand Rush
EVs: 252 Atk / 12 SpA / 244 Spe
Naughty Nature
- Outrage
- Bolt Beak
- Fire Blast
- Substitute

You can run life orb but I prefer dragon z as you still kill what you need to kill just don’t get pivoted around and end up killing yourself

In honor of the only person that actually ladders nduu nowadays, Forecast Champion, I had to put this mon on here. This stupid looking ¿velociraptor? has drawn my attention as of late strictly because of how well it pairs with the monster that is banded Scizor, they both share checks in Hippo and Amoonguss while handling each others that they don’t share. Scizor deals with MAlt knocks Hippo and Amoonguss along with chunking them both through the use of U-turn, Jeff handles the Skarmory, Celesteela, Moltres, Mandibuzz, and Salamence that Scizor doesn’t appreciate along with being able to take out Amoonguss and Hippo after some chip with fire blast + Z outrage or Z outrage into reg outrage respectively.

https://pokepast.es/044ce01995de09e6

Roserade @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Technician
EVs: 248 HP / 84 SpA / 176 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Spikes
- Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb
- Hidden Power [Fire]

3MoreMinutes convinced me that running synthesis isn’t worth, blame him

Roserade is by far the best spiker in the tier just because it takes advantage of and forces out so many common mons due to its amazing coverage / STAB combo. Roserade is pretty simple to build with, grab Rose, slap on an offensive mon that can pivot into Rose on things such as bulky grasses, waters or grounds, add a check to the flyers of the tier, amazing team has been completed. The specific mons it loves are things such as Moltres, Urshifu, Keldeo, Zeraora, Rotom-Wash and Swampert as they are great at dragging in mons for Rose to threaten out and set a spike on.

https://pokepast.es/38c30f84ea86064a

https://pokepast.es/44627641baf9c7f5
(Pretty sure someone told me this one is mon for mon a sample team so that’s kinda neat)

https://pokepast.es/950b5b00e1ebaba5

https://pokepast.es/bc62ccc7dd2df81f

As of right now I quite enjoy the nduu meta, only “problem” I have with it is how stall is bad so all my stall main friends refuse to play it

. Jokes aside tho I really do like where the meta is as a whole with just a few tweaks, maybe, I agree with the consensus that thundy-t shouldn’t have been banned as it wasn’t broken, strong, but not broken, and I also agree that hydreigon would be a good inclusion to the meta as we have checks to it. I don’t however agree with some people who think steela should be banned, it’s a strong defensive mon but it’s susceptible to knock taking its lefties making it overly reliant on leech to recover. The offensive beam sets are scary but nothing overbearing imo, mons such as rotom, rhyperior, nihilego, MAggron and defensive steela, along with strong scarf mons or offensive mons that can live a hit and threaten back such as zera, are popular enough and common enough where the offensive sets can be dealt with. What I do think needs to be banned are Donphan, Breloom and Beedril-Mega just so that ladder will stop using them and maybe we can have a halfway decent ladder.

And just because I can here’s a team dump as most of my teams can be found in the nduu discord anyway so I’ll save you guys the time and effort.

https://pokepast.es/da5a52c5f5c129b2

Runo · Sep 2, 2022

N_Mareanie said:
Stealing this from NDRU but whatever, thanks Dorron

Ok so now the tour is over (congrats to Runoisch and Meminger21 for reaching the finals), I'd personally love that people who have reached a decent round of the tour shared their thoughts about the metagame, VR nominations, teams they have used and sets they have tried so we can make the tier much more accessible for new players. Tagging them, don't feel obligated.

No way, people actually want to hear my opinions? Epic

I really loved the tour, but the fact the I placed 3rd speaks volumes because I've only seriously played this tier for three months (Basically I only played for the tournament). But what's even more surprising is that I actually managed to get to semi-finals without entering Losers Bracket (This is actually the first tour where I didn't immediately lose the first round). Granted I've had two no shows and a bit of dumb luck, but the matches I did manage to play were actually fairly decent.

I'm telling you, a lot of these teams are gonna have you doing facepalms
:xy/Scizor:

S.U.N Hyper Offense
:xy/Mimikyu:

Mimikyu + DD Mence BO
:xy/Dracozolt:

Sand Zolt + Bulu
:xy/Darmanitan:

Darm HO

Scolipede BO (Sample Sets wanted a Prima team. Here's one)
:xy/azelf:

+

Anti-Lead Azelf BO
:xy/Scizor:

+

S.U.N Hyper Offense v2
:xy/necrozma:

Necrozma "Psy Spam" HO
:xy/Jellicent:

Jellicent Semi-Stall

Yeah IDK what to tell you guys, 4 teams with UR mons that were either unused/dead weight, or were so mediocre that it wasn't even funny. I saw how you guys reacted on discord when Meminger posted the replay and Florges popped up. Message received, I won't use it no more.
:Darmanitan:

The only gripe I have is with Darmanitan; I still think it's an amazing breaker despite it's obvious flaws. It just never got the chance because Celesteela stole the show and 6-0d a team.

The teams with actual ranked mons were fairly solid.

I'm not gonna talk much about ladder trends or any of that shit, because it's basically a worthless endeavor trying to convince people to stop using Beedrill and Breloom. With the long awaited update to the teambuilder, players are now more aware of recent metagame shifts (they've stopped using Talonflame and Feraligatr now) and as a whole, that makes for a healthier, more informed meta. Maybe there is hope for the ladder.

This is a mon I've been sleeping on since I first joined, but I now understand why it's so good now. Upon reading up on some of the UUBL ban reasons, I saw that Glowking CM sets were too terrifying for the meta to handle. But it was only until recently that I realized something: These Glowbro sets are just a worse Glowking. Granted they're still very dangerous but it's not the demon that Glowking was.
Glowbro is actually pretty easy to use. I was a bit hesitant at first because it looked frail on paper and seemed underwhelming, but AV Glowbro does kinda go hard. I've not tried out CM Glowbro yet. Another time perhaps.

In my opinion, this thing is suspect worthy and should definitely be on a watchlist. Autobeam typically has limited counter-play and is rendered impossible to cancel if you aren't running either a fast electric (which die on the M-beam switch) or Nihilego/Rhyperior. Without these mons it's near impossible to counter so they're demanded against Autobeam sets. Even then, you can just keep Celest in the back until its few checks (which typically go down easily) are dead, and snowball games with Beast Boost. Most Scarf users require at least some chip on Celest to actually revenge kill so it's very easy to blunder your Celesteela check thinking that you can break it. If Celest was banned, it would free up team building substantially and not much of value would be lost in my opinion. The loss of Celest shifts the attention from Balance/BO to Offence and makes Hyper Offense more viable as a whole (despite a major loss for HO).

No Explanations will be given unless asked
Loss
Gain
Major Gain
Cause for Concern
S

Scizor

A+

Aegislash
Altaria-Mega
Amoonguss
Hippowdon
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Zarude
Zeraora

A

Buzzwole
Keldeo
Mienshao
Moltres
Nihilego
Roserade
Tangrowth

A-

Cobalion
Dragonite
Manectric-Mega
Rotom-Heat
Skarmory

B+

Aggron-Mega
Bisharp
Krookodile

B

Azumarill
Reuniclus
Sharpedo-Mega
Steelix-Mega
Tapu Bulu

B-

Diggersby
Infernape
Mandibuzz
Tornadus

C+

Barraskewda
Conkeldurr
Chesnaught
Lycanroc-Dusk
Noivern
Ribombee
Salazzle
Sceptile-Mega
Scolipede
Staraptor

C

Crobat
Pidgeot-Mega
Sneasel

Who banned this thing? This was not as broken as people made it out to be. Powerful, yes. But definitely not broken or even over-centralizing for that matter. During the suspect test, I was pretty indifferent to it; the teams it could go on seemed over specific and dependent on the one of 3 sets it ran, with the rewards being iffy to say the least. Also being reliant on HDB and failing to OHKO common rockers makes it iffy to run. Alternatively, the Electrium-Z sets demand at least one Nasty Plot in order to break bulky walls and the Double Dance sets are inconsistent since it's not bulky (unlike G-molt). Requiring two turns of setup is not ideal and I'd rather use T-bolt Porygon-Z since it's more immediate power and faster paced from the start. Re-adding Thundy seems contentious however. I say give him another chance (but that's not happening for a while).

A+

Aegislash
Amoonguss
Celesteela
Hippowdon
Rotom-Wash
Terrakion
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Zeraora

A

Keldeo
Mienshao
Moltres
Nihilego
Primarina
Slowbro-Galar
Slowking

A-

Manectric-Mega
Rotom-Heat
Skarmory

B+

Nidoking
Nidoqueen
Volcanion
Zygarde-10%

B

Azumarill
Sharpedo-Mega
Starmie
Steelix-Mega
Tentacruel

B-

Diggersby
Jellicent
Mandibuzz
Tornadus

C+

Arctozolt
Barraskewda
Gligar
Lycanroc-Dusk
Ninetales-Alola
Sceptile-Mega
Staraptor
Toxtricity

C

Alomomola
Crobat
Pidgeot-Mega
Sneasel

I'm in support of a Hydreigon suspect. As N_Mareanie said, we have good answers to it now so it's harder for it to setup and sweep. Its speed tier is also undesirable with Terrakion being the new benchmark for speed. Also personally, Hydreigon is one of my favorite Pokemon and I'd love to see how the meta adapts to it. Having a solid Dark mon who can compress numerous roles and fit a lot of teams and play styles would be healthy, especially when I'm advocating for the banning of Celest. But from the looks of it, Hydreigon has potential to shake up the meta.

A+

Aegislash
Altaria-Mega
Hippowdon
Rotom-Wash
Salamence (Draco Sets)
Terrakion
Urshifu-Rapid-Strike
Zarude
Zeraora

A

Azelf
Buzzwole
Keldeo
Mienshao
Moltres
Primarina
Slowbro-Galar
Slowking

A-

Cobalion
Deoxys-Defense
Dragonite
Manectric-Mega
Rotom-Heat
Skarmory

B+

Hatterene
Mamoswine

B

Azumarill
Chandelure
Reuniclus
Sharpedo-Mega
Starmie
Tapu Bulu

B-

Infernape
Jellicent
Necrozma

C+

Arctozolt
Conkeldurr
Chesnaught
Ninetales-Alola
Noivern
Ribombee
Sceptile-Mega
Scolipede
Staraptor

C

Sneasel
Umbreon
Weezing-Galar

Oldest to Newest (Click on them)

Sand Zolt Offense

B-Drum Azu + Z-Infernape Voltturn

Scolipede Volt Turn

S.U.N. HO

Necrozma + Azelf HO

P-z + Scolipede HO

Yes, I unironically use Defog Heat. Sue me or something. It's justified because I hate Skarmory that much (and I don't like using Wash or Moltres).

If you have any questions, comments, or criticisms feel free to ping Runoisch#6276 in the #uu-discussion channel on the NatDex Discord. I'd be happy to respond/debate my stances (But it'll be a little while [5:00pm GMT-4] until I actually reply since school gets in the way).

N_Mareanie · Sep 6, 2022

Survey response!

On a scale of 1-10, how much do you enjoy the current metagame? See: do you enjoy playing it?
I answered 9 / 10 on this question. I truly have a lot of fun playing this metagame, despite my rambling in the ND Discord (so) sometimes. I love seeing balance, bulky offense and offense all reaching the same amount of consistency, and that the more 'extreme' playstyles (stall and hyper offense) are close to non existent, yet still see some experimentation from time to time with no overbearing consequences.

On a scale of 1-10, how good do you find the current metagame? See: do you find it competitive?
On this question I answered with an 8 / 10. I think the meta is pretty competitive for the most part, but the main thing holding it back from a 9 or a 10 is Celesteela. For the same reasoning as the now banned Galarian Moltres, I personally believe that Air Slash flinches from Celesteela are super uncompetitive to deal with when factoring in all the other great assets of Celesteela. I'll go more in depth on this later, but that's the reason for an 8 and not higher. Still a great score however.

On a scale of 1 to 5 of not broken/unhealthy to very broken/unhealthy, where would you place Scizor?
My personal answer here was a 1 / 5. I know some people like Arishem do not like Scizor's effect on the tier, but I have never had even the slightest of issues with Scizor, like, ever. Knock Off cripples everything, yeah, but even after that, metagame staples like Skarmory, Buzzwole and Cobalion still wall you forever. You can tech Superpower or Dual Wingbeat, sure, but that means dropping another really important move to hit other metagame staples. I'm not gonna explain this much further because I couldn't be bothered, but I don't believe any part of Scizor is broken and do not support any tiering action in the slightest.

On a scale of 1 to 5 of not broken/unhealthy to very broken/unhealthy, where would you place Aegislash?
I gave Aegislash a 3 / 5 score for broken / unhealthy - quite different than from Scizor. I personally believe Aegislash is one of the single most threatening Pokemon in the meta purely because of set diversity. At the moment, it has 4 different sets on the analysis and 5 different sets on the Set Compendium - all of those sets are good sets. Some of them are better than others, sure, but that doesn't take away from just how versatile and threatening Aegislash is. The best set currently consists of Shadow Ball / King's Shield / Toxic / Close Combat or Substitute, though I personally think Close Combat is generally better. This sets itself isn't really broken (despite being very, very good), as it's well checked by a handful of Pokemon in the tier - specially defensive Scizor, Celesteela, Zarude, specially defensive RestTalk Primarina, Heal Bell Dragonite and Bisharp (don't switch hard into CC though) all keep it pretty tame should Shadow Ball not spdef drop like crazy. The problem here is that every single one of those Pokemon simply hard loses to a completely different set from Aegislash. Swords Dance + King's Shield has been used lately, which completely turns the table on pretty much every aforementioned Pokemon barring Bisharp. Close Combat + Spell Tag boosted Shadow Sneak is insanely hard to defensively answer, especially when your Aegislash check is meant to check its special variant, and now just completely falls over. Shadow Sneak also lets you pick off faster revenge killers like Zygarde-10%, Mamoswine, Volcanion, Urshifu-RS etc. once weakened. And these were only two of its sets - it has so much more. It can run Air Balloon to completely abuse most Ground-types in the tier and get a free boost with Swords Dance, it can a run more bulky set with Flash Cannon, Choiced sets go in vs team w/o Pursuit (Krookodile has been falling off, Choice Band Scizor is one of its most uncommon sets, Bisharp is fair but still can't safely hard switch into any Aegislash set except SubTox). The latest Galarian Moltres ban also hasn't helped with this.

I support an Aegislash suspect, but not before anything else, and I'm not even sure what I'd vote. Despite everything I said, Aegislash has not been an unstoppable force that is impossible to deal with. Spikes are huge in the current meta and severely hinder Aegislash's capabilities to switch in and enter the field. This means that despite Aegislash having really scary sets, it can be quite difficult to maintain Aegislash throughout the match (especially if your held item isn't Leftovers), which in turn limits its effectiveness. Swords Dance sets, despite being explored more, also haven't entirely exploded yet and is still unknown to some players, meaning that it can be hard to argue for a ban on the basis of not even fully explored sets.

On a scale of 1 to 5 of not broken/unhealthy to very broken/unhealthy, where would you place Terrakion?
Here I answered a 2 / 5. Terrakion has swiftly risen to the top of the metagame, and has absolutely no signs of stopping. Being able to abuse common Pokemon in Moltres and Salamence - often when they go for Defog - and having near to zero defensive counterplay means you will put in work every single game. The only Pokemon that comes close to countering Terrakion is fully physically defensive Hippowdon, though after some considerable chip it just drops to +2 Close Combat. Most other physical walls such as Buzzwole, Skarmory, Tangrowth and Amoonguss are simply unable to take a +2 Z-Stone Edge, and thus are never that reliable. Aegislash and Nidoqueen can check the Stealth Rock variants, but just drop dead to a +2 Earthquake on other sets. Even Choice Band sets can flat out 2HKO the entire tier with correct prediction. The best way to deal with Terrakion is through offensive counterplay. Despite Terrakion completely re-defining the speed tier within NDUU, there are still a fair amount of Pokemon that can outspeed and threaten Terrakion. Its mediocre defensive typing allows for this - think of Bullet Punch Scizor, Choice Scarf Rotom-Wash, Aqua Jet Urshifu-RS, Close Combat / Grass Knot Zeraora, Azelf, Choice Scarf Keldeo, Choice Scarf Mienshao and Zygarde-10%. This isn't even an entire list, but literally every team out there has at least one of those Pokemon. And due to Terrakion's odd defensive typing, it has a hard time hitting the field. Because of this, Terrakion most of the time has one shot to sweep with Swords Dance. Most of the time it is enough to offensively pressure the opposing team enough to the point that Terrakion rarely hits the field. Of course this requires a good amount of prediction, and this does not take away from the fact that whenever Terrakion hits the field it is one of the most dangerous Pokemon within the current meta. But because of the enough offensive counterplay in the tier, plus the fact that Terrakion can be fairly limited by playing accordingly, leads me to believe that Terrakion is not broken and simply another top threat. I also do not support any tiering action on it at the time.
I do not support any tiering action on Terrakion

On a scale of 1 to 5 of not broken/unhealthy to very broken/unhealthy, where would you place Urshifu-Rapid-Strike?
Just as with Terrakion, I voted a 2 / 5 on Urshifu-RS. SSNL has shown to me that Terrakion and Urshifu-RS have a very similar trait - one it hits the field, it's becoming dangerous. While it is technically true that Urshifu-RS has a considerate amount more of defensive checks and counters, there is one big different - U-turn. Being able to U-turn out on Pokemon like Slowking, Amoonguss, Tangrowth, Skarmory and Buzzwole is SO big. This pairs so significantly well with so many breakers in the tier. Nearly every single breaker in the tier pairs well with Urshifu, since it is such a good lure vs so many common defensive staples. And the other walls that the partner can't break, Urshifu-RS just breaks himself - the defensive staples in Hippowdon, Celesteela, Rotom-Wash, Rotom-Heat, Swampert and Rhyperior have absolutely no business switching into Urshifu. On top of this, VoltTurn absolutely thrives off of Urshifu - bless Mega Manectric.

Despite this, I don't think Urshifu-RS should be considered for a suspect test. Just like with Terrakion, if it doesn't click the right button at the right time it can really sap a lot of your momentum. Base 97 speed also just doesn't help with this - so much more stuff revenges you than with Terrakion. Think of Zarude, Nihilego, Salamence (huge) and its Water-typing also lets it get clean revenged by every Zeraora and Mega Manectric out there. This can limit the effectiveness of Urshifu and thus I do think it's just (well, not just - it's still Urshifu, c'mon now) another top breaker. As such, I do not support any tiering action at this current point in time.

On a scale of 1 to 5 of not broken/unhealthy to very broken/unhealthy, where would you place Celesteela?
Completely turning it around here, but I voted a 4 / 5 on Celesteela and believe it should receive a suspect (after a certain unban). I think it's absolutely ridiculous that Galarian Moltres was deemed uncompetitive because of Fiery Wrath flinching every check out there, but somehow this doesn't go for Celesteela and its Air Slashes. As you can see in this and this replay, Celesteela needs little to no effort in 6-0'ing entire teams from preview. Its insane bulk with no investment allows it to pretty much live every non-STAB SE move from full, freely allowing it to set up Autotomizes at least once a game (sometimes more). The immunity to Toxic is absolutely huge, completely abusing meta staples like Hippowdon and Swampert as complete setup fodder. Choice Scarf Rotom-Wash and Mienshao outspeed (if the Celesteela is Modest, Timid outspeeds), but the latter has no business switching into a predicted Air Slash and Rotom-W has to use Trick, which is a huge deal vs offensive teams like in the replays. It has swept in SSNL, it has done it in NDWC, and I'm sure it'll continue to do so in the upcoming NDPL.

If that's not bad enough, the defensive set with Heavy Slam / Flamethrower / Leech Seed / Protect can be insanely hard to break for so many teams. Oftentimes you will see the opponent just trying to stall out Leech Seed. It isn't broken per se, but it can be very hard to break for many teams and in combination with the offensive set I do all in all think Celesteela adds more bad than good and should receive its suspect test. If people support this, please make a post about it, I encourage it, especially since we're so close to the end of the generation.

What tiering action would you support for Hydreigon?
I was the first to make a post about it here, but tl;dr Hydreigon should be unbanned and would add a lot of positives to the tier. Don't waste time with a suspect test, if it's broken you can just quickban it again - though, from test games it has proven that Hydreigon is indeed not the stupidest thing ever.

What tiering action would you support for Mega Aerodactyl?
Absolutely not!

What tiering action would you support for Mega Venusaur?
I'd rather take Mega Aerodactyl ngl

None of you played Mega Venusaur meta and it shows

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Those were my responses! What did you guys answer?

Gangsta Spongebob · Sep 14, 2022

N_Mareanie said:
Stealing this from NDRU but whatever, thanks Dorron

Ok so now the tour is over (congrats to Runoisch and Meminger21 for reaching the finals), I'd personally love that people who have reached a decent round of the tour shared their thoughts about the metagame, VR nominations, teams they have used and sets they have tried so we can make the tier much more accessible for new players. Tagging them, don't feel obligated.

I give out my sermon with the hope that it'll convince at least one person not to use Breloom. Since the Survey also just came out, I feel I ought to talk about it here as well.

I'm really happy with how the tour turned out. While we had few hardcore ND UU Mains duking it out, the large number of games from good players gives us solid data on what's actually good here, something which'll go a long way in helping us develop the tier. Even the Donphan usage was kept to a minimum, something that just feels wrong given Ladder. Overall, a good outing for a great tier.

Throughout the tour I was in India visiting family, and thus had very limited time or access to wifi. Combine that with the fact I lost all my old teams, I was stuck with only 2, which is great for a bo3 tour. I guess I could've swiped more teams from Discord or the replays, but for some reason that thought never crossed my mind.

Triple Threat Offense

Probably my favorite ND UU Team of all time, which is probably why it was the only one I could fully recall from memory. Zera and Watershifu from a really potent offensive core, while Nidoking handles bulky Grasses. The remaining mons serve to check as many Pokemon as I can while dealing with Hazards and providing Nidoking with as much pivot support as humanly possible.

THE LIZARD

This isn't my team, if I am recalling correctly it was made by Mudkip and passed onto me by someone else a long time ago. I randomly found the paste and decided it looked good enough since I was drawing a blank on what to play with. It's a really fun BO and gives me an excuse to use Lizard, which is always welcome.

Overall ND UU had been a really fun tier to play. The tier is very balanced with nothing feeling outright overbearing, which helps a lot in diversity and experimentation. Overall, I'd rate it 8/10. My only real issue with the tier is that ~~I didn't win the tour~~ sometimes I feel I need to overprepare against a few mons just a little bit, notably Aegislash, Celesteela and Watershifu, but it's hardly overwhelming on the builder.

:ss/scizor:

Major agree with Mareanie on Scizor. It's pretty easy to wall and slapping on coverage means it's usually walled by something else. It is a very versatile and effective mon, but hardly one that's impossible to check.

Additionally, we need to appreciate all the Pokemon Scizor keep in line. Mega Altaria, Nihilego, and Terrakion in particular, but also pretty much every offensive threat neutral to Steel from Azelf to Salamence. With it acting as the near-universal offensive check we don't need to agonize over finding too many defensive answers to every crazy sweeper when we can just slap on Scizor and relive much of the pressure.

Now, broken beating broken is hardly a good sign in a meta, and I'm not saying the vast majority of these Pokemon are broken. However, when it comes down to it, Scizor is the best Pokemon in the tier by virtue of checking so much of the meta, not it being some unstoppable force, and thus genuinely makes the tier healthier, not the other way around.

:ss/aegislash:

In theory Aegislash is an absolute nightmare to face, being an already hard to check mon with a plethora of consistent sets that obliterate the other's answers. In practice however I haven't had too much trouble dealing with it. Between its slow speed and lack of reliable recovery, it oftentimes can just be worn down and overwhelmed. Even with King's Shield and the occasional Air Balloon it still has bad weaknesses to common Dark- and Ground-type Attacks, which hinder its ability to freely come in and make progress.

However, when it gets in, you're fucked. You need to guess what Aegi is from team preview, and one wrong guess will often cripple or KO a crucial piece of your team. Without gimmicks it'll never sweep, but since checks to its various sets are so different means it can very much have an overcentralizing effect on the Meta. It's extremely hard trying to build against every Aegi set, since some like Air Balloon are built to completely turn the tables on traditional Aegi answers. I don't think there's a single Pokemon in the tier that command nearly as much fear as Aegi does at Preview.

But is this Banworthy? I honestly don't know. In the builder it's some Hoopa-U type monstrosity, but in practice as I said it is reasonably if you can play correctly. The extent of Aegislash's brokeness is really up for debate, which is why I overwhelmingly back a suspect. How will I vote? I'm leaning slight Do Not Ban now, but my mind could easily change in the future.

:ss/terrakion:

Terrakion is arguably the scariest wallbreaker in the tier. While Aegislash can abuse opponents unsure of its intentions to break or cripple a wall, Terrakion just brutalizes everything with its sheer power. With its huge Attack stat and great STAB combo, virtually nothing in the tier can switch into it outside of unmons such as Pallosand. Swords Dance sets can utilize continental crush to break through even titanic physical walls such as Buzzwole and Skarmory, while Choice Band is capable of 2HKOing virtually every relevant Pokemon in the tier right off the bat. And Terrakion possesses a great speed tier, getting the jump on meta staples such as Nihilego and Banded Watershifu. If it can get in, Terrakion is arguably the best progress maker in the entire tier.

However, Terrakion defensively leaves a lot to be desired. While it can switch into some meta threats such as Moltres, and a resistance to Dark is always welcome, Terrakion's weaknesses to Steel, Water, Ground and Fighting are absolutely terrible in ND UU, while weaknesses to Grass, Fairy, and Psychic further make its life hell. It requires serious support to shore up these weaknesses, which heavily limits when Terrakion can actually make progress. With this in mind, while Swords Dance is terrifying, good luck setting up when Terrakion threatened by so much of the tier, and while Choice Band grants immediate power, bad prediction can completely neutralize Terrakion given it has so few opportunities to come in. Pivot support greatly helps, but Terrakion can sometimes end up as just a momentum sink. Finally, its weaknesses make it very susceptible to priority, notably from Scizor and Watershifu, and Scarfers, such as Mienshao and Zarude, making sweeping extremely hard.

Overall, Terrakion like Aegislash is a monster in the builder but is much more manageable on a game-to-game basis. It is the embodiment of high-risk high-reward, as while it can win the game in a single turn, it can also leave its user playing 5v6. At this moment, excluding free reqs, I oppose a suspect to Terrakion, as while it is scary it is more than manageable at the present moment. Too much of the meta can just deny it even if nothing really can come into it.

:ss/urshifu-rapid-strike:

Wastershifu wasn't ranked the #1 Titan of ND UU for no reason. It is THE wallbreaker of the tier, something every team must have some plan for, or else that team is simply bad. However, what makes Watershifu the best wallbreaker in the tier is not just its sheer power, but its ability to abuse the hell out of its checks. Band can run Ice Punch to completely turn the tables on popular switchins such as Amoonguss and Mega Altaria. The key, however, is U-Turn, which slams Slowking, but more importantly allows Watershifu to pivot out, preventing it from becoming a total momentum sink unlike other breakers. It's ability to not just benefit from Voltturn, but pivot in its own scary teammates as well, is what makes Watershifu one of the best Pokemon in the tier. And it's not just limited to those sets, as while they're much less common, from my past experiences TauntPads and Ice-Z can lure and seriously mess with Pokemon that're supposed to check Watershifu.

However, Watershifu is probably the least broken Pokemon on the survey. While it CAN abuse its checks, Band still needs to make the 50/50 on whether to STAB or Ice Punch/U-Turn, which grants the opponent a lot of room to play around it. With this in mind, Amoonguss, Mega-Altaria, Slowking, Primarina and other checks still do their job very effectively, and usually aren't brought down even from a supereffective attack unless heavily damaged. And while it does have useful resistances, notably a resistance to Scizor's STABs and Dark-types, it has the tendency to be worn down quickly due to Spikes. Its special bulk is also pitiful, and one well-timed Volt Switch is often enough to eliminate Watershifu once and for all. There's also Watershifu's famous weakness to Rocky Helmet- if it Surging Strikes against something holding it, notably the omnipresent Amoonguss used to check it, Watershifu literally loses half its health. Even Close Combat and U-Turn aren't safe, since that chip adds up over time. Watershifu has been a meta staple for a long time, and while it is absurdly good, we have adapted really well, and I highly oppose a suspect.

:ss/celesteela:

Celesteela is the Pokemon most in need of a suspect. Automize + Meteor Beam is a bonkers set that has few checks yet can easily snowball through entire teams. You can't call yourself a true ND UU player if you haven't been completely destroyed by it at least once. And Celesteela doesn't struggle with setting up either. It has enormous bulk and Skarmory's Typing, meaning it can set up on a plethora of meta staples such as Hippowdon, Zarude, and even some Mega Altaria.

Have fun stopping it once it sets up. With Air Slash and Flamethrower, Celetsteela can brute force most of the tier using its boosted Special Attack and good coverage. The Rotoms resist both moves, but Rotom-Heat gets obliterated by Meteor Beam, while Rotom-Wash still takes heavy damage. This dance around that move is heavily in the Celesteela user's favor, and Celesteela can usually make good progress even if its sweep is prematurely ended, while the opposing player risks getting 6-0ed if they don't stop it here and now. Other electrics such as Zeraora and Mega Manectric can reliably OHKO Celesteela after Rocks, but they are outsped after an Automize and take heavy damage from Meteor Beam, being OHKOed themselves after some chip. Scarfers can try revenging Celesteela, but its good bulk often makes them merely victims of Celesteela's rampage. The last notable check that comes to mind is Rhyperior, which admittedly is pretty solid (pun intended).

Where does this leave Celesteela? With very few mostly inconsistent checks, which does not bode well for the health of the tier. And it still has plenty of weird options to explore, such as complex spreads to broaden what it can set up on, to moves such as Giga Drain to shake up what can actually check it. Celesteela is the most broken Pokemon in Nat Dex UU, and I highly recommend a suspect for it as soon as possible. I'm heavily leaning Ban at the moment.

Keep in mind however that Celesteela is countered by the glorious Pyukumuku...

For future unbans, in general Hydregion looks pretty balanced, and I'd love to see it tested soon. Everything else in BL, aside from the recently suspected Thundurus-Therian, looks absurdly broken.

Despite Celesteela being broken, Nat Dex UU is still in a great place and is a very fun tier to play. I have more thoughts on mons such as Nidoking and Deoxys-Defense, but I'll likely save those for an eventual VR nom post. With all this said, have a great day yall. (Free my Homie Donphan, it's been like 2 years guys).

Iride · Oct 19, 2022

With the generation coming to an end, I know some of you might feel bad over not having a new stage of the metagame to play in, but with also so much to go through over the last few years of the tier's development, I thereby like to ask all of you the following instead:

Are there any unconventional Pokemon or movesets which you believe to have more potential in the current metagame than what people think?

For starters. Yes, I do. I would like to kick this discussion off with my extensive thoughts on a Pokemon I firmly believe to be one filled with untapped potential. And that Pokemon is Tapu Bulu, by far what I consider to be the most slept-on threat in this tier.

To preface this, I would like to make it clear that despite all of my best intentions, Tapu Bulu is still going to indisputably tamer as a breaker alone compared to some of the other options available, and will definitely struggle to find its way onto most teams naturally. Notably, its lower speed tier makes it much easier to revenge kill with a wider range of Pokemon, and its worse STAB combination and difficulty in fitting all the coverage options to take out the threats it needs to often leaves it with additional imperfections that can make it harder to exact consistent value in most matchups, as opposed to the likes of Urshifu-RS and Terrakion which have better offensive combinations and speed tiers to abuse, making them more reliable at forcing process game-to-game and much less prediction reliant by nature. Moreover, Tapu Bulu also takes up the crucial Grass-type slot whilst being unable to deal with certain types that teams would otherwise appreciate having support against, potentially leaving behind a lot of defensive gaps to the point where it can come off as frequently incompatible. The rise of offensive structures featuring Spikes Roserade also doesn't help to circumvent its issues either, where the aforementioned flaws and poor synergy it has also results in it being frequently passed over on this type of team as well.

However, a quick evaluation of the current state of the metagame brings us onto Tapu Bulu itself. To truly understand the importance of its applications in the current metagame, I believe it's worth discussing the various tools in its kit to further contextualize its offensive potency in practice. Unlike most of the examples mentioned above, Tapu Bulu possesses a great defensive typing, and also has great natural bulk to complement this. Having base 115 / 95 defenses which are further bolstered by key resistances to Ground, Water, Dark, and Fighting alongside the extra 6% recovery gained from Grassy Terrain, you gain a lot of leverage to switch into and take advantage of a noticeably large list of Pokemon, including but not limited to the likes of choice-locked Keldeo and Urshifu-RS, Mienshao, Zeraora, Zygarde-10%, Zarude, and any form of Wisp-less Rotom-Wash (including Scarf sets if you're running Z), among various defensive Water and Ground-types in the tier. While the existing prominence of several of these Pokemon to act as midground or even full-on speed control works heavily in Bulu's favor, as their inability to revenge kill it on the turns it chooses to come in or even altogether forces them to pivot into a defensive response, which can then be threatened with boosted coverage options from the Swords Dance sets, especially as you have the longevity to wear down and pick them apart over repeated turns thanks to your added defensive profile and switchin opportunities. We've also been seeing a rise in fatter Tapu Bulu variants recently, which aims to take the idea of a defensive approach even further while exploiting several cores that continue rely on Scizor and Celesteela as their Steels, as those can quickly fold to a +2 Stone Edge from the Rockium set.

Not only that, but the 5-turn window that Terrain provides means the extra recovery can also be transferred the majority of defensive presences in the tier as well, drastically improving the longevity of common teammates such as Nihilego and Mega Steelix by giving them the freedom to do much more in a game, offsetting most of the chip damage taken from hazards and pivot moves, while reducing the risk of certain damage rolls is extremely useful in its own right and effectively allows Tapu Bulu to contribute to its team's integrity even when it itself can struggle to find its own opportunities. It should also be worth mentioning that on such an equalized playing field, the Bulu user will generally have the advantage as they have the option to explicitly prepare themselves for the Terrain while the opponent can't.

Consequently, I find Tapu Bulu to work much better as an offensive presence that unlike the options before it, distinguishes itself through its additional defensive value and support potential, effectively doubling down on the amount of damage its team can choose to dish out in bulkier matchups while maintaining uses against offense as it retains the individual capacity to repeatedly setup on various threats against both.

I would also like to share a few cores that I believe to be the most ideal for it in the current metagame.

+

To me, Aegislash feels like one of the biggest beneficiaries of Grassy Terrain possible and dare I say, even manages to stand out with nearly every single one of its main variants available, which is definitely quite telling of the unmatched synergy it has. Typically, my Aegislash opt for the standard King's Shield + Toxic combo with Leftovers, which I find to be the most ideal for its consistent damage output combined with sheer longevity. When supported by Terrain, it not only helps to offset more of the chip damage it takes when trading with threats early-on, but also helps to reduce its weakness to Earthquake in a 1v1 situation. This can be crucial for securing additional chip damage on an otherwise irritating defensive wall should it become difficult to break past them by attacking on the switch alone, like in the case of specially defensive Hippowdon. Beyond this, King's Shield is also very useful for scouting the intentions of several offensive Pokemon that may otherwise try to force Aegislash out and predict Tapu Bulu on the switch instead, such as Toxic with Banded Zygarde-10% and coverage moves with Specs Keldeo.

+

Slowking's pairing with Tapu Bulu is something I've touched on previously, but with the rise of Keldeo structures centered around Pursuit, I believe that the defensive synergy between the two only serves to get better, as Tapu Bulu's ability to act as a secondary check to Keldeo's STABs and Pursuit resistance can now be used to help circumvent Keldeo's attempts to predict around Slowking, while Slowking additionally covers the job of pivoting around most Primarina sets, something that Bulu cannot afford to reliably do as the team's sole Grass-type, much like Zarude. Having Teleport + Future Sight support on top of this also remains very useful for making progress against teams with Pokemon such as Buzzwole and Amoonguss.

+

/

This can be considered a more straight-forward example since the majority of our Ground-types are still essential on nearly every archetype, but regardless, several of them can still benefit significantly from the presence of Bulu's Terrain to the point where I find it to be worth mentioning, especially if it's their only source of recovery alongside Leftovers. Mega Steelix is usually the main beneificary of this, as it's the main option out of the lot which usually misses out on the passive healing of Leftovers altogether, and is even able to help compress additional roles such as a Knock Off absorber and check to Pokemon such as Bisharp or Scizor. But Nidoqueen is also something which I have been liking more lately, as its added ability to cover Special Variants of M-Altaria and Manectric within a single slot while not being weak to Roserade as the team's Ground becomes more important with the re-introduction of M-Aggron's place in the metagame, which frequently comes off as a more sturdier example in comparison should you aim to cover the Electric matchups with something else, which you will most likely prefer to do. Lastly, I will mention Rhyperior, which can still find uses with its unique Flying and Fire-resistances on top of having the best offensive potential for teams looking to avoid passivity as a whole, but as most Bulu teams tend to pass the former role over to its bulky Water of choice, I do not find it to be nearly as necessary enough to justify the opportunity costs it brings to the table.

As per usual, below here are some replays that can help showcase how the greater extent of its merit plays out.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1549460810-012558z9rdxxz3hmb128g0h5zcxib39pw -
Understanding the importance of Rotom and Amoonguss in this match against Mudkip (Hence being able to determine which would be more likely to be sent out on the forced switch as a result) proves to be valuable here and allows Bulu to correctly pinpoint and remove both.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1614067337-30j3iyzrhulmoplwq6imtlsut9w4gkkpw -
UU SSNL game from Round 5, 3MM manages to get a similar outcome versus a Zeraora team with few options to stop Bulu offensively once M-Altaria went down to Rock Z, and even manages to grab Swords Dance boosts against Hippowdon on multiple occasions to seal the deal.

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldexuu-1561030017 -
Mareanie unfortunately lacked the opportunities to make much progress here after being burned by Rotom, but it's still clear that Bulu's Terrain and support potential still manages to be extremely useful outside of that by helping CM Galarian Slowbro setup on Krookodile and win.

------

I highly encourage you to explore and give this a try, I definitely think it's a good example of what creativity represents as a good part of the metagame, and I hope to hear more thoughts on things you guys have been using. Enjoy the discussion and stay safe everyone!

N_Mareanie · Oct 24, 2022

Discussed this in the NatDex Discord yesterday but Porygon-Z has been absolutely tearing up NDPL this time around. Hyper Offense teams have been absolutely spammed, and it's just super hard to deal with all of Porygon-Z / Necrozma / Mega Sharpedo / Dragonite with a singular team. Porygon-Z is by far the biggest enabler for these type of teams, having very little defensive counterplay after an Omniboost. We lack an immense amount of good Ghost resists and the few ones we have (Zarude, Krookodile, Mandibuzz) all die or take heavy damage from Ice Beam - not to mention Zarude and Mandibuzz will auto lose if it's the Electric Porygon-Z, the set that has been most common this PL. Very little amount of Pokemon can revenge kill this after a +1 in both defenses, with most Choice Scarfers (Zarude, Mienshao, Rotom-W) just hard losing to it (Scarf Zarude beats Ghost Porygon-Z, but loses to Electric).

Down below are some replays that show matches with Porygon-Z:

tlenit vs Meminger21

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nationaldexuu-651213

Porygon-Z just sets up vs last mon Scizor and beats it - nothing interesting or broken of note.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Meminger21 vs Elfuseon

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nationaldexuu-654224

Ghost Porygon-Z beats ''counter'' Bisharp easily with a Substitute variant, and proceeds to sweep the rest of the team into frofeit.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

c0cnernn vs Elfusion

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nationaldexuu-654641

Porygon-Z didn't necessarily do much, but it did late game sweep while beating ''counter Scarf Zarude'' because it was in fact Electric Conversion, not Ghost conversion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

devin vs Kate

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nationaldexuu-654748

Ghost Porygon-Z easily sweeps team with no Ghost resists... Also because we don't have many tbh. Mandibuzz/Zarude/Krookodile all fall to Ice Beam, and the former two also lose to Electric Conversion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Lopunny kicks vs Spl4sh

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nationaldexuu-654741

Electric Porygon-Z gets a lucky freeze vs Amoonguss, and sweeps the opposing team clean 5-0.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Royal1604 vs Meminger21

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nationaldexuu-656411

While Porygon-Z didn't win the game here, it still OHKO'd a Zarude and beat Hippowdon even though it was the Electric Conversion one - Terrakion was lucky Sand was up here.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Dunoks vs cornelia street

https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nationaldexuu-656360

Porygon-Z doesn't do much but manages to easily beat Spore Amoonguss 1v1 with Recover.

Even if Porygon-Z itself may not be broken in a singular manner, it definitely pushes these type of Hyper Offense teams over the edge and create an unhealthy environment where you just pray certain breakers aren't on the opposing team. Porygon-Z is by far the biggest enabler for these teams and PL has proven that. I personally don't know if all this is justified for a quickban, especially since we've had Porygon-Z since the literal creation of the tier, but I do fully support a suspect test and would likely vote Ban.

I encourage others to also post their thoughts here, especially council members Niadev MudkipBeans <3

3MoreMinutes · Oct 29, 2022

Quick follow up on Mareanie's post with my thoughts on Porygon-Z.

I think Porygon-Z's performance in NDPL has proven that it is broken. Its usage has been extremely high, and it has won almost every game it has been brought to. I agree with everything Mareanie has said about it.

I'd like to propose that Porygon-Z is quickbanned. I agree with Mareanie's reasoning that a suspect test would be preferable, because it has been in the tier for so long a quickban would be strange. The issue with this is that the generation ends in less than a month. Like many others, I'd like to see a Hydreigon test before the end of the generation, and a Porygon-Z suspect would make this impossible. It seems a near certainty that a Porygon-Z suspect would result in a ban, and this result has unanimous support from NDPL players. There seems to be no serious debate about whether the mon is actually broken, with the only issue with it leaving being how long it has been thought of as balanced. Normally I'd still prefer that a suspect test occurred, but to me, this preference is outweighed by the potential of Hydreigon to improve the tier.

I won't discuss why I think Porygon-Z is banworthy here, Mareanie already covered it and it's mostly obvious. I'd say watching NDPL games makes it pretty clear.

N_Mareanie · Nov 8, 2022

Hello it's me again, shamelessly stealing from Dorron! NDPL is almost over so I'd once again love it if everybody who played it could share their thoughts about the tier (anything broken / underexplored / whatever) and remember to post your teams in the Team Dump thread. I've also made a VR tier list so you can make your own VR.
https://tiermaker.com/create/nduu-personal-vr-130712

Dorron · Nov 8, 2022

N_Mareanie · Nov 8, 2022

im just doing what every sensible dutch person would do - colonize and steal

Leni · Nov 13, 2022

https://pokepast.es/b519d0c30692a3d1 reuni version
https://pokepast.es/7b25e43c4c213dac ditto version

this is pretty much what i did in this entire tour. Called for finals to face HO and played around it in builder. Asked earlier in the tour if fat builds are relevant and apparently they are not.

My honest opinion is that based on all the test games around HO, double breaker fsight, balance and some offenses, the fat has its place in the meta.

Our manager, who in fact is involved in the meta is not that confident of it tho

All in all, use it on your own risk.

Terrakion on its own topic feels extremely restricting mon. If you dont have aegislash, it shreds any team basically. Maybe worth looking at by the persons who has powers to do so

N_Mareanie · Nov 27, 2022

\

yes i own this thread again be ready

N_Mareanie · Nov 27, 2022

(double post oops)

As we're approaching the end of the generation, we thought it'd be a good idea to change the banner art. So here's another wonderful piece of art made by the very talented and artistic Cold Apple Soda . Everyone like or love this post as a big ''Thank you!'' to Baker-sensei!

Metagame National Dex UU Metagame Discussion - Porygon-Z Banned

Lupla

Still looking for stuff to do

3MoreMinutes

Iride

N_Mareanie

Lupla

Still looking for stuff to do

N_Mareanie

R1C3M4N

BugGoBrrrrrr

Runo

Help

N_Mareanie

Gangsta Spongebob

"Mama I'm a Criminal" - Badass Smoking Caterpillar

Iride

N_Mareanie

3MoreMinutes

N_Mareanie

Dorron

BLU LOBSTAH

N_Mareanie

Leni

formerly tlenit

N_Mareanie

N_Mareanie