Resource National Dex Viability Rankings v2

hippowdon-f.png

Nominating Hippowdon from B- to B/B+



Hippowdon is a very potent Ground-type anchor for fat and bulky teams that forgo Gliscor to assist hazard stack playstyles. Hippowdon can utilize physically defensive or specially defensive spreads to serve its role as a rocker, phaser/toxic user, and checking many threats with its powerful unboosted Earthquake such as Heatran, Tapu Koko, and Mega-Diancie. Currently, specially defensive sets are favored as Hippowdon's immense natural physical bulk allow it to routinely avoid 2HKO's from imposing physical threats. Hippowdown's ability, Sand Stream, allows it to be less passive as opposed to other ground's looking to fill its slot such as Gastrodon. Sand Stream also offers valuable weather control to ease matchups versus rain, sun (including double setter teams with Mega Charizard Y), and even hail teams.


Hippowdon @ Leftovers

Ability: Sand Stream

EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD

Careful Nature

- Earthquake

- Stealth Rock

- Toxic/Whirlwind

- Slack Off



The standard specially defensive set utilizes Hippowdon's huge HP, Sand Stream, and access to pressuring moves such as Toxic/Whirlwind to turn Hippowdon into a surprisingly non-passive wall that can effectively set rocks against many archetypes.

Calcs

252 SpA Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon in Psychic Terrain: 169-201 (40.3 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Blast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 186-219 (44.3 - 52.2%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


252+ SpA Zapdos Hurricane vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 169-201 (40.3 - 47.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


252+ SpA Choice Specs Tapu Koko Hidden Power Ice vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 154-182 (36.7 - 43.4%) -- 98.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 Atk Lopunny-Mega High Jump Kick vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Hippowdon: 189-223 (45.1 - 53.2%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers


4 SpA Arctozolt Blizzard vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 194-230 (46.3 - 54.8%) -- 9.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 SpA Victini Blue Flare vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 157-186 (37.4 - 44.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


252 SpA Diancie-Mega Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 160-190 (38.1 - 45.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 0 SpA Clefable Moonblast vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 174-205 (41.5 - 48.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery


0 SpA Rotom-Wash Hydro Pump vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 218-260 (52 - 62%) -- 97.7% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 0 SpA Latias-Mega Psyshock vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Hippowdon: 199-235 (47.4 - 56%) -- 25.8% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252 SpA Volcarona Flamethrower vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Hippowdon: 267-315 (63.7 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


+2 252+ Atk Hawlucha Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 248 HP / 8 Def Hippowdon: 268-316 (63.9 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery


Replays

Hippowdon fends off an endgame cleanup from Zapdos and 1v1s Lopunny, as well as killing Ash-Greninja with its Earthquake.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1703771710


Hippowdon answers Mega Charizard Y consistently even while toxic'd, as well as providing valuable weather control against Torkoal.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1682294124

Hippowdon keeps rain off and gives precious time and breathing room to teamates while simultaneously applying it's own pressure using rocks and toxic
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1708175785

In conclusion, due to its great defensive typing, immense natural bulk, and Stealth Rocks + Toxic/Whirlwind, Hippowdon slots very well on certain bulky builds. Although one could argue Hippowdon is selective in its role, it excels in that role, in addition to having genuine merit over Gliscor. Hippowdon can pair very well with the likes of Skarmory, Toxapex, and Mega Latias, beating many of their checks and recieving valuable support in return. Although it may not slot on every team, Hippowdon provides a very valuable defensive backbone and support, carrying its weight very well in many matchups.

(A special thanks to my co-writers Hidin and Sealoo)
 
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:ss/celesteela:

Nominating Celesteela from UR to C

Celesteela sports the infamous Steel/Flying typing, tried and true to be one of the best out there. With a very even stat distribution, a colorful movepool including Leech Seed, Flamethrower, Heavy Slam, Meteor Beam, and Air Slash, Celesteela carves out a genuine role in the metagame as a powerful, yet versatile anchor.

Sets
Celesteela @ Power Herb
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 76 HP / 252 SpA / 180 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Autotomize
- Air Slash
- Meteor Beam
- Flamethrower

This is the set I have personally experimented with the most. Celesteela serves as a great check for HO teams vs the likes the scarf Kart, scarf Lele, and Mega-Scizor turning them into setup fodder. With Autotomize, Celesteela gets up to 406 speed, outrunning Mega-Lopunny handily. Meteor Beam allows Celesteela to strike down checks to defensive sets like Heatran once chipped and Zapdos. It also serves as a strong nuke to handle threats such as Toxapex looking to haze away your Autotomize boosts. Combined with Air Slash + Flamethrower, Celesteela has almost perfect neutral coverage. On top of all this, Beast Boost lets you snowball very easily, raising Celesteela's low power Air Slash into a strong STAB with a 30% flinch rate that can bypass would-be checks. Additionally, striking down an opposing mon with Meteor Beam effectively nets +2 Special Attack, which is usually more than enough to tear through the rest of a team.

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP /8 Def / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Leech Seed
- Flamethrower
- Heavy Slam
- Protect

OR

Celesteela @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 248 HP / 8 SpD / 252 Def
Relaxed Nature
- Leech Seed
- Flamethrower
- Heavy Slam
- Protect

Either physically defensive or specially defensive, Celesteela can serve as a potent pivot that finds heavy value as well as having immense staying power with Leech Seed/Leftovers + Protect. This set checks every Lele set when specially invested as well as checking every Kartana variant, including SD Fightinium Z from full HP. Celesteela also notably checks Protean Greninja, non-transformed Ash-Greninja, Mega-Scizor, CM Clefable, applies immense pressure to Mega-Latias with Heavy Slam + Leech Seed (nets about 42% per turn minimum), lives 2 Mega-Lopunny CC's after rocks, and checks Landorus-T. Protect allows you to waste very valuable Magma Storm PP from Heatran, and Hydro Pump from Ash-Greninja.

Replays + Calcs

Defensive Celesteela 1v1s Z-Jirachi with ease, checks and kills Kyurem, then chips Zapdos with Leech Seed to find itself in range of a flinch from Excadrill's Iron Head to ice the game. https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1708592186 (credit to gewwge for the replay!)

Offensive Celesteela very handily 6-0s in ~13 turns (i have better replays but they aren't saved). https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1699717631

dont love dumping calcs but here a few notable ones like what i mentioned above for defensive variants

+1 252 SpA Tapu Lele All-Out Pummeling (190 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 221-261 (55.6 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+2 252 Atk Kartana All-Out Pummeling (175 BP) vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 345-406 (86.9 - 102.2%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO

+6 0 SpA Latias-Mega Aura Sphere vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 219-258 (55.1 - 64.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+1 0 SpA Clefable Thunder vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 162-192 (40.8 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Celesteela Heavy Slam (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Clefable: 230-272 (58.3 - 69%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Greninja Dark Pulse vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 118-141 (29.7 - 35.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

+6 252+ Atk Technician Scizor-Mega Bullet Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Celesteela: 168-198 (42.3 - 49.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252 SpA Diancie-Mega Mystical Fire vs. 248 HP / 252+ SpD Celesteela: 136-162 (34.2 - 40.8%) -- 54.5% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

mons sheisty definitely better than polteageist tbh...hate that guy whos always talking about polteageist. shoutout gamer for winning with it in a room tour that one time in august.
 
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ChrisPBacon

Lucky and bad
is a Tiering Contributor
:ss/dragonite:

UR - B-/B

Through this PL, dragonite has cemented itself as a truly legitimate Pokemon, and thus does not deserve to be unranked. It manages to function as a great wincon on teams ranging from fat to offense whilst checking a myriad of notable, dangerous threats, including serperior, volcarona, heatran, and urshifu-rapid. Access to multiscale improves its defensive utility, being able to take one hit from almost every Pokemon and firing back. Dragonite is also surprising versatile, using its colourful movepool to run different sets which perform different roles, making it splashable and rarely feel like a forced addition to fix defensive holes.
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe (I think u can change these attack evs)
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Dual Wingbeat/ Dragon Claw
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
Fits on offense. Checks dangerous shit that threatens to clean you late game like broken volcarona which is otherwise a pain to beat. Benefits from offense hammering physdef walls like landorus-t, corviknight, clefable to clean late-game with dd and multiscale to avoid rk attempts from the likes of weavile shard and scarf lele moonblast.
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP / 44 Def / 152 SpD / 64 Spe
Careful Nature
- Earthquake
- Dragon Dance
- Roost
- Dragon Claw
Vstra set so automatically either really shit or fucking insane. Anyways this set is incredible. Fits on like fats and semistalls and gives them a wincon that provides insurance vs offensive zapdos, megazardy, heatran, volcarona etc. Heavy spdef invest means you take hits you really shouldn't effortlessly like lele moonblast even after scale is broken. This set does kind of mandate cleric support otherwise the pokemon u come in and set up on will cripple with status but with how good the likes of clefable are with this set it shouldn't be too difficult to fit.
Dragonite @ Heavy-Duty Boots
Ability: Multiscale
EVs: 248 HP/ customisable
This set can run every nature in the game
- Flamethrower
- Earthquake
- Roost
- Defog/ Heal Bell/ Thunder Wave
Ok this set is like not very good and probably wouldn't justify a rank with it alone but it does have its niche on very hard stall teams, using its latias-like defensive attributes to provide backup vs kartana, scizor-mega, heatran whilst giving cleric support if necessary.

Replays:
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/smogtours-gen8nationaldex-647551 fat nite lets anique eat a lele moonblast, setting the conditions forkoko to clean.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen8nationaldex-1686393375-ilr5pkkrs8mq6lrye4021avtid0gbjgpw nite breaks through rillaboom after tanking a tapu lele moonblast and prevents hawlucha from setting up.

there are other replays in the ndpl replays thread but they mostly feature dnite checking tran/volc the entire game and not much else

also i support steela to c

also please quickban tera in sv
 
Nominating Clefable To S-

Hello! Space Boots/Red Cottonmouth/TBoxer here and I want to nominate Clefable to S-.
Reaching high ladder gave me kind of a sixth sense when it comes to good Pokémon and I feel like clef deserves to be somewhere in the s rank.
1) clef has many move sets. Both defensive and offensive.Cm bolt beam,cm Moonblast, defensive cleric etc. the list could go on
2) an amazing list of abilities. Unaware and magic guard are some of the best abilities in the tier hands down
3) legitimacy. Clef has proven itself to be a legitimate competitive Pokémon for so long.
The Metagame has shifted and evolved all the while clef still being there and in the Overused tier. Since playing natdex I can’t remember a time it wasn’t NDOU tiered.
4) Typing. Mono fairy is a great typing.
Finally, I think that a mon that’s proven the test of time time and time again while having incredibly good and viable movesets deserves s- rank.
 
View attachment 486551
Nominating Garganacl from UR to B/B-
In both my experience and opinion, Garganacl is a criminally underrated pokemon, combining both a phenomenal wall, especially when combined with tera along with great chip damage. While it's not a gamewinner, the ability to spread chip with little to no offensive investment, force switches and access to recovery alongside great defensive stats make it incredibly useful.

100/130/90 is a great spread for bulk, and with full sdef investment Garganacl can take neutral and even some SE hits extremely well, and when combined with purifying salt as an ability allows garg to completely wall most ghost type pokemon. Salt cure is a great move, and the 12% hp of damage can add up quickly unless switched out, with the side benefit of dealing twice as much every turn to steel and water types is instantly threatening. Purifying salt adding a ghost resist is also great in a metagame where dragapult has such a large standing as a staple, not even counting the extremely useful immunity to status conditions. Garganacl's chip damage is incredibly useful on stall teams as well, since the chip from salt cure lasts until the opponent switches out, allowing the team to spread SR/spikes chip or poison from tspikes by constantly forcing switches with Garganacl. Garg's access to recover also allows it to sponge hits by recovering on the switches it so often forces, or allowing it to set up if you're using an iron defense body press set. Tera allow Garganacl to further specialize into a wall by allowing it to turn its lackluster rock typing into a much more desirable one, whether it's fairy to completely wall dragapult and annihilape, or water for more general utility. Garg also has some decent set variety, with options such as block + salt cure making garg a trapper for pokemon like heatran or toxapex, or the ability to set up stealth rock for additional chip damage.

Calcs:
+1 252 Atk Dragapult Dragon Darts (2 hits) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Garganacl: 186-218 (46 - 53.9%) -- approx. 1.2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
+1 252 Atk Dragapult Never-Ending Nightmare (175 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 Def Purifying Salt Garganacl: 160-190 (39.6 - 47%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Choice Specs Iron Valiant Moonblast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 169-201 (41.8 - 49.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Tornadus-Therian Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 180-214 (44.5 - 52.9%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Zapdos Thunder vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl: 135-160 (33.4 - 39.6%) -- 19.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252 SpA Charizard-Mega-Y Weather Ball (100 BP Fire) vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Garganacl in Sun: 110-130 (27.2 - 32.1%) -- 54.7% chance to 4HKO after Leftovers recovery
Replays
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1781720849 Garganacl takes an important flamethrower from a blacephalon
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1781941153-hieaqog4dao85plz3e4d7jxse1fiehppw Garganacl clears out main threats with ID + Body Press
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen9nationaldex-1781995407 Garganacl completely walls a dragon dance dragapult
This is the Gen 8 VR Thread, if you wanna see the gen 9 stuff go here https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/national-dex-viability-rankings.3714511/
 

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