Pet Mod Natural Selection (Slate 1 Playtesting Phase)

How should Pokemon in Natural Selection be chosen?

  • Randomly selected!

    Votes: 17 70.8%
  • Community-voted!

    Votes: 7 29.2%

  • Total voters
  • Poll closed .
(Approved by DuoM2)
Natural Selection :zarude:
The Pokemon series has many associations to the field of biology through things such as Evolution (though only by name, really), fossil Pokemon, regional forms, and most recently covergent species. Competitive Pokemon can also be thought of as an ecosystem - where real-life environments have producers, apex predators, and decomposers, a competitive tier has physical walls, setup sweepers, pivots, etc., and each Mon's common sets adapt over time to optimize their matchups.
This Pet Mod aims to expand on this aspect by more closely emulating a real ecosystem, where the Pokemon are changed to fill empty roles and/or adapt to the meta, else they die off!

The mod will start with 40 vanilla Pokemon, either randomly-generated or voted by the community. Each slate will start with 2-3 tournaments, and each mon will be put into four groups based on their usage and win rates in the tournaments (possibly also on community opinion):
  • Group A (Bottom 12.5%) go extinct, and are permanently removed from the meta. They will likely be kept in the teambuilder for archival purposes but won't be legal in battles.
  • Group B (Lower 12.5%) need to adapt to compete with the more successful mons.
  • Group C (Upper 62.5%) are decently successful, and won't be changed.
  • Group D (Top 12.5%) thrive and diverge to fill empty niches in the meta.
Each slate's submissions will fall into two categories: buffing Pokemon in Group B, and creating all-new forms/Fakemon based on Pokemon in Group D to replace the Group A Pokemon that were removed - so a total of 10 Pokemon will be available to base submissions from each slate.

Group B Sub Restrictions - You can only submit changes for up to three of the following attributes of a Group B Pokemon:
  • Add/Remove/Change one Type
  • Add/Replace up to two abilities
  • Base Stats; +15 to a single stat a/o +30BST max
    • Stat Floor Rule: If a Pokemon's BST is below 500 (after the allotted +30), you can add additional points up to 500 BST. Base stat cap increases by 5 for every 10 additional points past 30 given.
  • Up to 5 move additions, 8 if you also changed typing for new STABs (you may remove as many moves as you'd like for balancing)
Movepool Changes:
Explanation: Explain how the changes help the Pokemon in the current meta.
(note: attributes in this template you do not change can be omitted in the sub)
Group D Sub Restrictions - New Pokemon you sub must share the following attributes to the original Pokemon:
  • Exact same BST (you may redistribute stats)
  • At least one type
  • At least one ability
  • Inherits the movepool of the 'ancestor' mon - while you can add/remove moves freely, keep this is mind when making your sub(s).
Original Pokemon:
Movepool Changes:
Explanation: Explain the Pokemon's competitive role and how it fits in the current meta.
Flavor: Explain what caused the original Pokemon to adapt this way. Yes it is required, but you don't have to be very in-depth about it.

Additionally, Pokemon may also have to be artificially nerfed should they prove to be too centralizing and/or problematic - this will most likely be done through a combination of council and community vote.

- Terastilization is banned.
- For both groups, custom elements are allowed, but they must be clones/very similar to existing moves or abilities; no crazy new effects please.
- Expect the mod to last between 6-8 slates.

:karrablast: Beebos
:buizel: Mossy Sandwich
:swampert: Gaboswampert

Discord server
Spreadsheet (TBA)
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Slate 0
(I would give a subtitle but can't think of anything good)
After roughly a month since approval, Natural Selection is ready to roll! This is a 'Slate 0' as it's about choosing the starting roster of vanilla Pokemon to establish a baseline for the meta and future submissions.

If you didn't notice, I created a poll alongside the OP to decide which of these two ways Pokemon should be selected for the meta:
Randomly Selected: 40 random Pokemon will be selected and added to the meta, with some minor filtering (in case I end up generating like 10 different water-types)​
Community Voted: There will be a form posted after the poll for members to vote up to 20 Pokemon; the top 40 most-voted mons will comprise the meta's starting roster.​
This poll will be open for 2 days, make sure to get your vote in!

Only one other announcement for now, council spots are now open until the end of the week (Dec 16) ! I'm looking for 2-3 other people to help manage the mod, so if you're interested PM me here on the forums or on Discord. Any volunteers for coding the mod would also be very appreciated, though it's not a top priority right now.

Have a good rest of your day everyone!
Hey gang, got a few big announcements for tonight:

The poll is closed and the people have spoken - Natural Selection's starting Pokemon will be randomly selected!
As stated in the previous post, there were some parameters set in place with this roster, those being:
A. Generated Pokemon are fully-evolved and at 600 BST or lower​
B. Can't be a Pokemon banned from the OU of its latest gen's appearance​
C. Can't share the exact typing of a previously generated Pokemon​
This includes mono-typings (e.g. 3 mono Normal-types are generated, only the first is included​
D. Can't share one of its typings with 5 or more previously generated Pokemon​
Pokemon in cases B, C, or D were skipped, and new Pokemon were generated in their place. These filters were applied to help weed out overpowered Pokemon and reduce the chances of generated Pokemon on the lower end of viability from being outclassed. Also due to some limitations to the website I used, I couldn't generate both regional and non-regional mons in one list, so, :regiF:

Without further ado, here is our starting lineup!

Additionally, the Natural Selection Discord server is now LIVE! Invite can be found here or in the OP.
In the meantime from now to when the mod goes online on DH, feel free to discuss the meta in the Discord or this thread: which mons will dominate the meta? Which (despite my best efforts) will be shit? And which mons do you think are sleeper hits among the selection?

One last reminder that council apps are open until Saturday night. Note to anyone who already applied, I'm not sending full replies to applications but for previous and future apps I will send reactions to show that the message went through and you are being considered for the council. And a note to those that haven't yet, enough people have applied to make a full council of four, so if you want to join don't delay!
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Some Statistics

Current SV Tiering (BLs rounded up)
New (DLC)-:Latios::Minior:
OU-:Ceruledge::Dragapult::Iron Hands::Kingambit:

Type Count
Flying (6)-:Hawlucha::Mandibuzz::Delibird::Jumpluff::Emolga::Minior:
Fire (5)-:Ceruledge::Volcanion::Typhlosion::Pyroar::Centiskorch:
Rock (5)-:Klawf::Aggron::Barbaracle::Crustle::Minior:
Water (5)-:Barraskewda::Volcanion::Slowbro::Barbaracle::Jellicent:
Dark (5)-:Kingambit::Mandibuzz::Skuntank::Mightyena::Pangoro:
Poison (5)-:Munkidori::Muk::Skuntank::Ariados::Victreebel:
Psychic (5)-:Munkidori::Slowbro::Uxie::Latios::Orbeetle:
Bug (4)-:Ariados::Centiskorch::Crustle::Orbeetle:
Fighting (4)-:Iron Hands::Hawlucha::Crabominable::Pangoro:
Ice (3)-:Crabominable::Delibird::Eiscue:
Dragon (3)-:Dragapult::Haxorus::Latios:
Electric (3)-:Iron Hands::Eelektross::Emolga:
Ghost (3)-:Ceruledge::Dragapult::Jellicent:
Steel (3)-:Kingambit::Orthworm::Aggron:
Grass (3)-:Jumpluff::Victreebel::Eldegoss:
Normal (2)-:Pyroar::Bouffalant:
Fairy (1)-:Slurpuff:
Ground (1)-:Dugtrio:

A few observations
Ground types and Fairy types are lacking for a meta that has Dragapult, Kingambit, and Iron Hands as the likely top 3 pokemon, and with Latios being up there as well.
Of the NatDex pokemon, Latios, Slurpuff (webs?) and potentially Aggron will be good choices.
There are 3 lower-tier Shell Smash Rock types (Barbaracle, Crustle, Minior), who knows if any of them will be viable.
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Gonna give some first impressions from what I see. Chances are I'll miss stuff, but I gotta go through these anyway so I might as well discuss as I go.

First off, a Type Count:
Normal: 2 (:bouffalant::pyroar:)
Grass: 3 (:jumpluff::victreebel::eldegoss:)
Fire: 5 (:volcanion::centiskorch::typhlosion::pyroar::ceruledge:)
Water: 5 (:barraskewda::slowbro::volcanion::jellicent::barbaracle:)
Electric: 3 (:emolga::eelektross::iron-hands:)
Ground: 1 (:dugtrio:)
Rock: 5 (:minior::klawf::crustle::aggron::barbaracle:)
Flying: 6 (:minior::emolga::hawlucha::jumpluff::delibird::mandibuzz:)
Bug: 4 (:ariados::crustle::orbeetle::centiskorch:)
Fighting: 4 (:crabominable::iron-hands::hawlucha::pangoro:)
Psychic: 5 (:uxie::slowbro::latios::munkidori::orbeetle:)
Ice: 3 (:crabominable::delibird::eiscue:)
Poison: 5 (:ariados::muk::skuntank::munkidori::victreebel:)
Ghost: 3 (:jellicent::ceruledge::dragapult:)
Dragon: 3 (:latios::haxorus::dragapult:)
Dark: 5 (:kingambit::skuntank::mightyena::mandibuzz::pangoro:)
Steel: 3 (:kingambit::orthworm::aggron:)
Fairy: 1 (:slurpuff:)
Beebos.... why are there 6 Flying types....

Next I wanted to talk about some utility roles and what fills them, but

What the fuck.

Lmao these 3 are gonna define the meta. Dragapult is insane but Kingambit beats it, Kingambit is insane but Iron Hands beats it, and Iron Hands is just insane.
:dragapult: On the Pult side, there are no SpDef Dragon resists in the meta. Max SpDef Slurpuff is taking a clean 40% from Specs, meaning you can only switch in if you're 100% healthy, and don't even get me started on the Steels. Aggron's bulk is somehow even worse than Slurpuff's, and Orthworm's is even lower than that, so the only real deterrent to Specs Draco is Kingambit. Funnily enough, if this is NatDex-based, Kingambit gets Pursuit, and if that happens Pult and it's left cousin Latios are suddenly way worse!
:kingambit: Yeah see above for Gambit counterplay. the only mons that can come in on STABs are Iron Hands and Mandibuzz, and Mandi can't touch you, so the only real Gambit answer is Hands. Now admittedly, Hands is a damn good answer, but the fact that SD+Sucker Gambit wins immediately the moment Hands is weakened spells disaster for the meta.
:iron-hands: So this mon just has no counterplay lol. Dragapult and Victreebel do resist your STABs, but both crumple to Ice Punch, so this mon is gonna be a 1v1 machine... is what I would say if you didn't need to keep this healthy for checking Gambit in lategame lol. Gonna be interesting to see how this mon plays with that in mind, but I'd imagine just the threat of Kingambit in the back will force Hands players to be more conservative than they otherwise would be. Other than that, the true best Hands answer is definitely Latios, as it resists your STABs and threatens you back with its powerful STAB Psychic.

Overall this meta is INSANELY centralized, but that was probably the point lol. The current rockers are godawful so Mandibuzz is probably pretty solid. Webs look kinda nuts with Slurpuff and Orbeetle as setters, but both of the Dragons are immune so eh? Other than that, some big threats that I haven't already mentioned include Haxorus, Barbaracle, Ceruledge (just watch out for Pult), Volcanion, Hawlucha, and Munkidori (legitimately what switches in?). Looking forward to playing this as soon as it's live.
Beebos.... why are there 6 Flying types....
i'm announcing my leave from the pet mods community

On the more serious side, there will likely be some minor emergency nerfs before the first roomtour begins - I say minor because I don't want to majorly weaken all the problem mons before the meta even starts. Full details on nerfs and bans when it comes around (spoiler alert: arena trap and shed tail are banned)


is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Been a while since I've been able to nerd out over something like this so here we are. Just wanted to talk about some mons.

Dragapult was the first thing to jump out at me because good Ghost resists are pretty rare and I wasn't expecting other stuff that answers it in standard to pop up here. Sure enough, I was right, and although Kingambit and Mandibuzz are both here to keep it from spamming Shadow Ball this thing has ways of muscling past both. WispHex kinda screws both of them and you could also just blast them with Flamethrower or Thunderbolt. You're going to need to run AV Iron Hands or something weird to truly answer this properly. Honorable mention to Ceruledge for also being big strong Ghost but definitely not as meta-defining as this.

So this kind of statline is one I can expect to be really good on its own in a format like this. I can't imagine the meta's best defensive mons being that great, at least from the get-go, so being able to blanket check just a bunch of stuff without being passive is really nice, and boy is this thing not passive. It's going to be very hard to find proper answers to this thing because we don't really have any good Grasses or Fairies.

Of course, the near Uber is bound to have a place here. Really similar dynamic to OU where there's one omnipresent mon that just completely hard counters you, but Iron Hands is a big enough presence to make it a bit awkward to need to save it to the lategame. Orthworm can also answer Kingambit but it needs to be at full and needs Chople Berry if Low Kick ever becomes relevant. Still think Kingambit is very strong.

I don't really think Jumpluff itself will be that great but want to talk about Screens. The defensive mons in this meta are a good bit weaker than the offensive ones, so hyper offense is bound to be good here. I don't really know what setter would be best though. A VAST majority of this meta is slow so a base 110 speed stat would suffice but I could definitely see you going for something a bit slower that...isn't Jumpluff. Your one faster option is Dragapult who is amazing at setting Screens but it seems a bit wasteful to use what is likely the best Pokemon in the tier on your lead slot. I dunno I just like Jumpluff.

Also probably broken. I already mentioned 110 base Speed being very good, defensive mons being worse, and the meta lacking good Fairies, and all of that bodes very well for Latios. Remember, this thing gets Aura Sphere now, so Kingambit is not the switch in you would think it to be. Otherwise I think you all know what Latios does. Answers do exist for it but it does have a coverage option to potentially hit all of them. Time will tell if it can slot all of them at once or if that even ends up being a concern in the first place when your opponent probably has to guess what you're running. Worth note that Munkidori also looks very good but is probably just distinctly worse than Latios for now, so I'd only run that if you want a psyspam core with these two together.

Our resident Defogger, and...alright I don't even know if this is that good. It beats Ceruledge which is cool I guess but everything else that it wants to answer has a very easy looking way to get past it, or at least severely annoy it. Being stuck without Leftovers really is not a good thing when you're going to be taking heavy damage all the time from trying to hold off the crazy brokens in the tier, you're going to be very exploitable since you need to click Roost a lot. May end up being a necessary evil for some people to run but I'm almost tempted to tell you to run Latios as your Defog user.

Pretty cool Choice Band mon. The tier's Grasses suck and the tier's Waters both get 2HKOd by Crunch, although you're really going to struggle to make progress against Slowbro if that ends up being good. This thing is only outsped by Dragapult and Banded Flip Turn is going to be an absolute headache for offense to face unless they have Volcanion or something who admittedly might not be bad here either. Thing just goes to town otherwise though, and I wouldn't be surprised if there ended up being some partner to naturally suit its pivotspam shenanigans nicely.

Lastly...okay, hear me out. Being able to check both Latios and Iron Hands is going to prove extremely valuable in this meta, and both being pure Psychic and having huge bulk will make that pretty easy. It's initially very weak but does have access to both Nasty Plot and CM + Stored Power to potentially make up for that. 95 base Speed is really nice for this slow meta, legitimately good hazard setters are really rare for this meta, and in general you can just short term check a lot of really scary stuff as well while having U-Turn to pivot into teammates. This is all stuff I expect to be especially valuable in a meta where offense is as pushed as hard as it is here. If all else fails, this is probably the actual ideal Screens setter, not Jumpluff. I just didn't want two paragraphs about one mon lmao

That's about it. Of course, these won't be the only viable mons and some low tier stuff is bound to pop up, but this is just what jumped out to me initially.


Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
Current SV Tiering (BLs rounded up)
OU-:Ceruledge::Dragapult::Iron Hands::Kingambit:
I’ll make a documentary based off this. I’m aware this is a micrometa, so think of pre-evolutions not allowed for “the region’s official tournaments”.

“Welcome to the Vursal region. This newly discovered region proved to be harsh due to it’s small size compared to the other regions, and thus, it is a survival of the fittest. This means Pokémon not able to keep up against stronger Pokémon runs risk of disappearing from the region and gets replaced by better prepared Pokémon, while those that can barely keep up will eventually improves to survive in the region. An unprecedented discovery are a multiplicty of Latios, Uxie, Munkidori and Volcanion found in this region.”

”Changes might already happen to some dominant Pokémon due to observed combat-induced fatigues, which may allow far less dominant Pokémon a better chance for retaliation.”

:ceruledge: As Auspicious Armors cannot be found in this region, there is no confirmed sightings of Armarouge. Ceruledge‘s burning blades and ruthlessness allows it to take down any opposition, and is a formidable opponent for any Kingambit... that doesn’t have Sucker Punch ready, that is. A Ceruledge must also stay alerted for any Dragapult, as the latter’s Speed will take it down by surprise.

:dragapult: Thanks to their blitzering Speed, reasonably good Attack and Special Attack, and a versatile learnset, Dragapult can take on any opponent, and thrive through the region thanks to a lack of Fairy-type Pokémon. While it is capable to prey on Ceruledge, it must stay alerted to any Kingambit that had fallen allies.

:iron-hands: Classified information. Proceed with caution.
Despite resembling Hariyama, it turned out that this is a Paradox Pokémon called Iron Hands. It was thought to be confined to Paldea’s Area Zero, but several ended up being found in this region through unknown cause. With their outstanding strength, physical resistance and overall endurance, even the other Dominant Pokémon that are Ceruledge and Dragapult must fight one with caution. A Kingambit may be able to take down an injured Iron Hands, but not a healthy one.

The few numbers of Fairy-type and Grass-type in this region means Iron Hands can be a top dog of the region rivaling Kingambit for the time being. Only Latios is a consistent threat to Iron Hands due to their Psychic type and a combination of great Speed and Special Attack.
:kingambit: The evolution of Bisharp that is unexpectedly discovered in Paldea, Kingambit’s strategy of just brute force worked in it’s favor, as it’s competition, Ceruledge and Dragapult, just happens to be weak to Kingambit’s Sucker Punch boosted by Supreme Overlord, which makes it stronger the more Pawniard and Bisharp have fallen in it’s army. Tellingly, most Kingambit prefer to stay behind and let their underlings fight first before delivering a coup-de-grace on oppositions.

Nevertheless, Kingambit already proved to be the undisputed apex predator of the Vursal region, which would require the competitions to adjust sooner than later, lest the region will become infested by the Pawniard line. However, there is one species of Pokémon even it may need to watch for…

:latios: Although it is unusually found without any Latias in sight, the circumstances of Vursal are favorable for Latios’ traits, including only Slurpuff as Fairy-type and lack of safe switch-ins. Latios are able to learn Aura Sphere, which means even Kingambit would need to enter the battlefield cautiously if they want to land a Sucker Punch.

Updated: It turns out Latios recently learned Flip Turn to escape unfavorable fights, furthering enhancing their already impressive survivability.

:slurpuff: Do not think that this region’s sole Fairy-type Pokémon is unassuming despite their average base stats, as their pure Fairy-type allows it to take on Hawlucha, Haxorus, Mandibuzz, and even Dragapult, Latios and [REDACTED] head-on. Even Kingambit would rather wait until the Slurpuff are weakened before finishing off with their Sucker Punch.

Part of reason of their successful survival is their Unburden Ability, which synergizes well with Belly Drum and Sitrus Berry, and Sticky Web, slowing down unsuspecting opponents and prey.

:pangoro: The environment is considerably favorable for Pangoro. Dark-type STAB means it can defeat Dragapult, Ceruledge, Latios and Munkidori, and a healthy Pandoro is one of the fews who can reliably fight Kingambit. Only [REDACTED] poses a consistent threat to it; Slurpuff can be taken down by a surprise Bullet Punch, invalidating Belly Drum or Sticky Web.
:ariados: In a region where strength matters, trapping alone will not save Ariados anytime soon. Even the few Ariados with the Hidden Ability Sniper are easily overwhelmed. Even Sticky Web isn’t enough for Ariados to salvage themselves, as Slurpuff have numerous positive traits that makes them better at using Sticky Web.

:delibird: Delibird are not built for fighting, and in a small region, this is almost always a death sentence. Their tendency of deliveries would only make them easy prey for Volcanion, Barraskewda and Eelektross.

:dugtrio: As Dugtrio in this region does not have access for Arena Trap, their Speed alone would not help them thrive in a harsh environment. Dragapult is faster, and Kingambit’s Sucker Punch will put them dead on the spot.

:eiscue: Ice Face proves more harm than good for Eiscue, as their meager coverage and vulnerability to Special Attack oriented Pokémon means Eiscue can be easily overwhelmed by intelligent Pokémon.

:emolga: Emolga, dubbed a “Pikaclone” by many, doesn’t have any advantage that the other Flying Pokémon doesn’t do better. It is overall too weak to thrive in a region where strong Pokémon thrive.

:jumpluff: Although Jumpluff could find a niche for dual Screens, Uxie found in the region can do the task better thanks to better overall bulk and type. Time will tell if they could survive or not with this opposition in mind.

:klawf: Klawf could theorically take on numerous Flying-type and Fire-type that were thriving, but Kingambit’s presence makes it easier said than done. The presence of Hawlucha, Barraskewda, Slowbro and [REDACTED] alao makes the Klawf’s life difficult.

:mightyena: Another Pokémon that is just overall too weak to have a chance to survive in a harsh environment. While Moxie could help it to take down upcoming opponents with ease, it wasn’t fast enough to make the most of that Ability.

:orbeetle: Despite the potentials and good resiliance, Orbeetle’s Bug and Psychic types proved to be detrimental against it, especially with Ceruledge, Dragapult and Kingambit being the top of the food chain. What the Orbeetle can do are easily outdone by even Uxie and Munkidori.

:victreebel: Despite being the sole Grass-type Pokémon found in the region, they are in a dire situation due to a lack of reliable sun setters, sluggish movement and fragile defenses. They are also easily outwitted by Latios, Uxie and Munkidori, while a Volcanion wil burn them to death on sight.
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Mossy Sandwich

Gunning for the top
is a Community Contributoris a Tiering Contributor
I'm gonna try to predict which mons get in which category (and also use this as an opportunity to discuss some of the mons in question)

Prediction: :kingambit::iron hands::dragapult::latios::slurpuff:

:kingambit: I see this as the best mon in the tier, despite having an extremely sturdy counter in Iron Hands, simply due to how meta defining its Sucker Punches and natural bulk and resistances are. Kingambit is an incredibly natural check to both Dragapult and Latios and can pick them off from full using Sucker Punch, but that same Sucker Punch will also be incredibly defining for offensive playstyles. Naturally, Dark-resistant sweepers like Slurpuff and Hawlucha will perform much better because they are less likely to get revenge-killed, whereas mons like Barbaracle and Haxorus have to be careful despite still being big threats. I also generally see this as the most "mandatory" top tier to put on your team simply due to how much it compresses. Would also expect it to attempt to run Low Kick to deal with opposing Gambits and to take down Iron Hands from higher ranges.

:iron hands: The best Gambit check by far and also utterly unwallable due to its high Attack as well as how good BoltBeam Punches are here, hitting a lot of relevant mons for super effective damage. However, your Gambit answer shouldn't be a mon you can throw around much and Hands's limited health pool means you can't be as reckless in wallbreaker with it as you might think. Sure you can kill a Latios or a Dragapult with Ice Punch, but is that worth being left at critically low health, making you much more vulnerable to Gambit in the future? Probably not. I think, despite how difficult it is to wall, this interaction alone will make Hands's wallbreaking capabilities much more limited than they seem in theory.

:dragapult: Occupying the role of the fastest mon in the format with a good stat spread in other areas and an excellent movepool means Pult is for sure a hit. The very low amount of Steels and Fairies leaves Dragapult with a lot of opportunities to do as it pleases, especially spamming Specs Dracos, though Kingambit and Slurpuff's setup opportunities on a Choice-Locked Dragon move might make that too risky to throw around freely. I'm personally very interested in how Wisp sets can perform, as most special attackers can't really take it on due to its superior speed and 1HKO potential and burns are incredibly crippling to its main switch-ins, making it seem extremely difficult to play around.

:latios: Dragapult is most likely outclassing Latios when it comes to the role of dropping Specs Dracos thanks to its speed advantage, so I feel like Latios, while still good, will have to take on some lesser roles to bring value to teams. Its super-effective coverage on both of the main physical attackers is rather valuable though, Aura Sphere threatens a straight 1HKO on Kingambit while Psychic applies consistent pressure to Iron Hands. I expect to see a lot of Scarf as it outspeeds +2 Barbaracle, +1 Haxorus and Dragapult while also forcing Slurpuff to run Jolly and keeping so many threats in check is valuable. Flip Turn is a nice bonus it gets access to with the DLC on top of that. However, I wouldn't be surprised to see some sets focused on wallbreaking with Calm Mind as well as luring Kingambit with Colbur Berry as it cut options to deal with it to mostly just Dragapult since most mons will rely on its Choice Lock to beat it. Probably one of the top tiers you have to dig the most to get good use out of, but not worse for it.

:slurpuff: To be honest, while the other top 4 seem very obvious, this spot was very hard to determine for me. I could've put much more proven mons like Ceruledge, Hawlucha, Volcanion or Mandibuzz here, but I think Slurpuff fills some extremely important and valuable niches only it can fill in the current meta, which could make it an inclusion on a lot of teams. Being the only Fairy type is obviously extremely valuable, but Dragapult and Latios's secondary STABs don't really give you much room to breathe, usually 2HKOing, so you can't properly wall them. What does jump out is its ability to punish these Dragons extremely hard for locking into their Dragon STAB with access to Belly Drum+Unburden. Slurpuff is easily the best sweeper in the tier as, after a Drum, it can outspeed and one shot the rest of the Top 4 while also resisting Kingambit's Sucker Punch and being able to find setup opportunities all over the place, especially if it forces the opponent to use Draco Meteor to revenge kill its teammates. Setting Webs is also valuable, though I think it's a little underwhelming with Dragapult having Clear Body and Latios having Levitate. Slurpuff also has some other utility and maybe potential for more defensive sets, but I can't see those thriving. What I do think it'll do is spearhead HO styles and make them truly work while also being valuable on BO as a great punish to some of the best mons in the tier.


:ceruledge: Shadow Sneak is very valuable against Dragapult and Latios and it can apply a fair bit of pressure to Kingambit and Iron Hands as well which makes this a major offensive threat. It's also... kind of able to hold off +6 Slurpuff, though if that starts running Thief you might be toast. I didn't put it in my top 5, but I could see a very real argument for it and it's for sure top 10.

:uxie: Very good HO enabler with Screens, Rocks, Knock+Turn and even Sunny Day, which probably makes this a staple support on a fair few structures. Also can really mess with Kingambit and Iron Hands thanks to Encore if it wants to and can probably absorb some Dracos if needed.

:barraskewda: Second fastest mon is quite a feat, but I think this is unfortunately struggling quite a bit in the current landscape. Having to deal with two Water immunities in Jellicent and Volcanion is frustrating, Kingambit Sucker Punch can pick you off from very high health and the Dragons and Iron Hands as well as Slowbro can be quite annoying to get through. Not that I don't think a CB sets can't be good, between Crunch, Psychic Fangs and Close Combat, nothing is ever really safe switching or staying into it and it can be very scary to switch around as a result, not to mention Banded Flip Turns are one hell of a tool against teams lacking a Water immunity and Aqua Jet is a good anti-offense tool.

:minior: Mid but likely overrated Smasher. Prob better to use Barbacle. Kinda surprised I didn't put it in one of the lower tiers, but the competition is stiff.

:slowbro: Water/Psychic is very poor at handling Hands and Gambit, but what Slowbro excells at is stopping physical sweepers, generally being able to take boosted hits from the like of Slurpuff, Hawlucha, Haxorus and Barbaracle which is a very valuable niche if you don't want to get your team blown away by those. Generally nice addition to teams, but be careful to have answers to the Top 4 before putting it on yours, as it does not help much against those.

:orthworm: Can probably check Kingambit and Spike decently. I'm not super hype on it, but it's probably middle of the pack since it does do some nice stuff.

:crabominable: I'm sure someone will try to find reasoning to use this over Hands or Pangoro, probably something about Assault Vest and Ice being super effective on Dragon.

:eelektross: Probably doesn't do much, but not bad enough for lower tiers.

:hawlucha: Another mon I was debating for Top 5, Hawlucha is not only one of the best sweepers in the mod (I kinda expect Power Herb Sky Attack to see play) thanks to incredible Speed after Unburden, great coverage and a Dark resistance, but it's also a potential Gambit check with recovery and Defogger. Because of these secondary roles, it might see some experimentation beyond its main set, but I don't expect those to be especially great. Still, it'll be a centerpiece of HO, but I think Slurpuff is just a bit better for those teams and in general, which is why I put Hawlucha in this tier.

:volcanion: Having to deal with some very good bulky Waters in the form of Slowbro and Jellicent as well as omnipresent Dragon-types with Dragapult and Latios makes life a bit tough for Volcanion. However, it still has the firepower and tech potential to get through those targets with some work and it's a decent Gambit check with its burn chance and high SpAtk also being pretty scary for Hands to attempt to take on.

:muk: This actually has pretty dangerous poison-spreading potential with Poison Touch and access to Toxic Spikes and it could really mess with Iron Hands using those, especially since poison also makes Mandibuzz a not great Defogger against it. Pretty good Special bulk is also valuable. Might be an overlooked threat.

:skuntank: Also has access to Toxic Spikes alongside a better typing supported by great moves like Sucker Punch and Taunt. Pretty similar, I think this will be a bit better due to the previously listed advantages, though a worse stat spread might make it not work as well.

:munkidori: I'm not convinced about using this one when I could already use Latios, but maybe Nasty Plot and Toxic Chain give it relevant advantages? Kinda doubt it though.

:jellicent: This is like Slowbro, but specially defensive. It can however take Dracos unlike its rival and access to Will-O-Wisp makes it quite a pain to switch into. Generally holding off Volcanion, Barraskewda as well as Sun attackers like Typhlosion is also pretty nice with how hard those can hit.

:orbeetle: It can do a lot and I expect people to experiment with it. Gets Sticky Web and Screens which is pretty interesting, but I've explained with Slurpuff earlier why I don't think Webs are that great. IDef+CM sets could also be potentially difficult to deal with, though between Kingambit and Dragapult, you probably have an uphill battle to sweep. Finally, I could for sure see this running Trick Room, maybe alongside Uxie, to really enhance the offensive capabilities of Hands and Gambit and maybe some other overlooked wallbreaking threat.

:mandibuzz: I expect Mandibuzz to run SpDef as it's a solid answer to the Dragons with that. It'll be forced to Roost a lot when taking Dracos though, which makes the other things you want it to do like Defog, Knock Off and U-Turn rather difficult to pull off and it seems like it could be taken advantage of by Gambit, Hands and Slurpuff depending on what moves it runs. A bit hard to get a read on, but I doubt it'll be bad.

:aggron: Usually, Head Smash spammers are mostly worried about Ground-types walling them, but this isn't really the case here, so Aggron is actually a fair bit more threatening. Kingambit and Iron Hands are still pretty annoying to get through, but they're much more easily muscled past using Superpower or Earthquake. Besides those two, very few proper Rock resists, so might be able to find a relevant niche.

:barbaracle: The Shell Smasher of choice. It's a bit less susceptible to Kingambit's Sucker Punch than other sweepers might be thanks to its decent Defense and it rips through weakened teams rather easily, being able to throw out very strong neutral hits towards Iron Hands with Night Slash or Shadow Claw also being valuable coverage for the common Psychic and Ghost types it may encounter. However, against a healthy team, it might struggle to get through anything as it really needs some of the bulkier targets to be softened up first before going for game and its lower speed leaves it open to Scarf Latios.

:pangoro: You can probably use this like a second Iron Hands in a way and, with how much that thing tends to get tasked with, that can be a valuable role. A double Dark resist makes it great at keeping Kingambit in check lategame and it can make it awkward for Dragapult and Latios to click their second STAB, along with being a very strong wallbreaker to begin with.

:haxorus: Very threatening after Swords Dance or Dragon Dance (whichever you prefer) and can either serve as mainly a wallbreaker or sweeper on HO. Scale Shot sets tend to be extremely weak to Kingambit, so they can't really finish off teams properly, but Dragon Dance sets will likely have similar issues to Barbaracle so you may not want to stack those. Overall, a great addition to HO, but I don't see it performing too much outside of that.

:victreebel: While there isn't Drought, doubled speed can be majorly threatening if you can set up sun with Uxie for example, and, while I thought it'd have trouble against the Dragons at first, Knock Off is great at taking care of Dragapult and Latios. I think it's a bit too limited in what it can do to be especially good though, as it is slower than Scarf Latios, vulnerable to Sucker Punch and probably not as immediately powerful as you may hope.

:centiskorch: I don't have much to say, this is kind of an Eelektross situation, doesn't really do anything but much better than the stuff lower.

:typhlosion: Scarf Eruptions are gonna be fairly threatening, whether under Sun or not, and with access to Shadow Ball, it can dig into Dragapult and Latios's health unexpectedly. Still, another Sucker-weak mon and struggles against some less relevant, but still existent mons like Volcanion and Jellicent.

:pyroar: I'm not sure there's much of a reason to run this over Typhlosion all things considered, they're very similar mons.

:eldegoss: I can see this having rather good usage with good enough special bulk to take Dracos and access to Regenerator and Rapid Spin. It can't be made fodder super easily thanks to access to Leech Seed, but giving Kingambit and Iron Hands opportunities is still not ideal. Not too bad though.


:crustle: People will probably overhype this mon as a Spiker and Shell Smash user meaning it will stay out of the bottom 5 (and tbf, it is one of the few that gets Spikes), but it will not perform well into Kingambit and Iron Hands at all.

:dugtrio: Extremely bad, but also the sole Ground-type of the meta, meaning people will try to get use out of it. Might get a big Earthquake opportunity here and there, but I doubt it'll bring much to teams.

:bouffalant: The stats on this thing are actually weirdly good, it's just that I don't see why you would run a bulky, mono-normal physical attacker when you have other excellent bulky physical attackers in Kingambit and Iron Hands. Normal also thuds into a fair few good mons which is rough.

:jumpluff: It'll see some use as a fast Screener with Sleep Powder, but I think the accuracy issues with that move, poor bulk and lack of utility hold it back compared to pretty much every other Screens setter. Still expect it to see enough usage to make it here though.

:klawf: Klawf is kinda shitty af, but Regen+Knock+Rocks will seem appealing enough to some to give it a spin, but being weak to common moves and having very poor special bulk will make its performances too underwhelming for my taste.


:delibird: Has cool utility, can't use it, no offensive or defensive potential, worst mon in the mod.

:eiscue: Even if you can get a drum up with this somehow with the Ice Face Speed Boost, you're still outsped by Dragapult and struggle breaking through Gambit and Hands. Just not worth the effort.

:mightyena: Even if stats weren't just bad all around, you should be using Skuntank.

:emolga: Ok so this does actually gets its Gen 8 movepool which means Knock+Turn, Roost and Defog which sounds like it could be good in practice, but its bulk is so bad you can't really make use of those and Mandibuzz has all of those tools if you really want. This is probably the best mon down here, but it's still... really bad.

:ariados: This is the Mightyena situation all over again, just use a better Webber or Poison type.
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Time to spam eiscue so it gets into Group C and i can make it cracked.

Also, Pangoro matches up very well into much of the meta other than iron hands. None of the dragons can switch in in fear of knock, and drain punch annihilates gambit and bullet punch deletes slurpuff
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Hey gang, I'm back with some metagame information, as promised:

The meta will be SV-based. What this means is:
  • No battle gimmicks: On top of the Terastilization ban in the OP, there's no Megas, Z-Moves, or Dynamax. R.I.P Mega Aggron.
  • Dexited moves are banned. Biggest losses here are Hidden Power and Pursuit, though really you should be thankful that we don't have to deal with Pursuit Kingambit. Only mon that really cares about no Return is Bouffalant, and even then it probably prefers using Reckless Head Charge.
  • Pokemon will use the movepools from their latest mainline appearance. Minior thankfullly appeared in the Indigo Disk DLC (spoilers ig), so this process is like ten times easier since all of the other NatDex mons in our pool are in SwSh, so their movepools will be copied from there.
:dugtrio: Arena Trap is banned. There's an argument to be made about allowing this ability in NS - it can be balanced in specific environments (it's been legal in prior micrometas, in fact), and about a quarter of the roster is immune to the trapping, but it also easily leads to uncompetitive strategies, and with Dugtrio's appeal as the meta's only Ground-type starting out, it's not something we want to risk. Considering how bad Dugtrio is without AT, it's something that might be tested in the future to help Trio compete with other Grounds (assuming of course it survives until then), though.
:orthworm: Shed Tail is banned. HO is heavily incentivized by most of the top-tiers, not just the problem mons, and multiple options for Sticky Web, and this move will only exacerbate it. Besides, Orthworm posesses some viability even without Shed Tail as one of the meta's best Spikers and a semi-check to Kingambit.

And now on to nerfs... Ok I lied there are no emergency nerfs for the first roomtour. Yes the existence of pult, hands, and gambit - potentially Latios as well, now that it has Flip Turn and a buffed Luster Purge - makes the meta heavily centralized, but that's not automatically a bad thing (there's a GSC Snorlax-shaped hole in my notes here), and we won't know for sure how dominant or problematic they will be until the mod is coded and we can get some games to analyze. That being said council will be keeping HEAVY watch on these mons and draft some potential nerfs should they prove to be too powerful in their current state.

Speaking of council, I should probably announce that. Please welcome Gaboswampert, LOrd Fernado, and Mossy Sandwich as the starting council members of Natural Selection!

This should be my last announcement post before the first roomtour: unfortunately I can't give concrete time windows for this first tournament since the mod isn't coded on DH yet and nobody has volunteered to do so - if anyone is up to the task let me know ASAP. See you then!
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Ability: Light Power
is a Pre-Contributor
[…] potentially Latios as well, now that it has Flip Turn and a buffed Luster Purge
Really? Let me check…


That’s no Lumina Crash, but now Latios have a legitimate reason to use it over Psychic with 5 Base Power higher and 50% Special Defense drop on non-Dark opponents, making the lower PP more justifiable.
Screenshot 2023-12-23 162520.png
Hey gang, it's been a (relative) while but I'm back with some tour info - there still isn't that much set in stone yet but it felt wrong to keep you all in complete dark for this long.
Now I don't know much about challenge/tour rule codes on PS, but the long and short is, since NS only uses vanilla elements at the moment, we don't need to to wait for the mod to be coded in order to start the tours!
We're planning for 2 roomtours on two separate days, sometime between next Wednesday and New Year's Eve; that's a lot tour-age, but necessary for a mod whose slates hinge mostly on tour data. A poll with be set up on the Discord shortly after this announcement goes live to see which times work best with everyone, and then dates will be settled based on when the council and DuoM2 (the tour host) are most available.
And just between you and me, there may be a special bonus for the winners and top 5 players... (it's not money or discord nitro don't get your hopes too high)

That's it for now. Poll will be open for 48 hours like last time, make sure to vote. Have a good day and happy holidays!
Hopping in to announce that the first NS roomtours will take place on Thursday 28th and Saturday 30th at 4PM (GMT-6). These tours will be taking place on DH2. Additional alerts will be posted in the Discord an hour in advance and when signups begin. Remember that results of these tours directly affect slate content so if you have any interest in this pet mod, participation is highly recommended. See you then!
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is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Hey guys. Here's some usage stats for the first two tours...
There's a lot of interesting stuff here, and honestly some stuff that I'm sure others who have played the meta more could give better input about than me. The meta already feels fairly well-understood, only a few Pokemon really feel underexplored and it's become very apparent that Kingambit and Iron Hands are the top dogs. Big surprise. You might have also noticed that 16 Pokemon are completely unused. This is no surprise since the amount of games played until this point has been small, but I still figured the remaining mons would make for an interesting talking point now that we know a bit more about the meta. Since there's also been some talk about Pokemon with a 0% winrate being up for elimination, I'll be going over those five and the sixteen that saw no usage from what I think may be the best to what I think may be the worst.
This is the only one I have just nothing to say about, but come on. There's gotta be something, right? This thing has coverage for almost everything, a monster Attack stat to hit everything else, a good enough Speed tier and a lot of boosting options. Not a lot of people have found reason to run this but I feel like we all know this isn't even close to as bad as it gets here. I get that it's hard to boost and so I get people not wanting to experiment with it but something weird like a Scarf set could be fine as well.

To me, probably the most enticing Pokemon without any usage. The centralized state of this meta leaves little room for experimentation so most of these will be fairly negative, but I have a lot to say about Aggron. Goes without saying that Choice Band Head Smash is ridiculously strong, doing 40% minimum to max Speed Kingambit and having a slim chance of 2HKOing with Rocks, and it 2HKOs both it and most Iron Hands variants with Banded Earthquake. Clicking Head Smash at most points in a game means risking letting Iron Hands in fairly easily though so you need to account for this when building and might get less value then you'd hope for out of this thing in practice. Also gets Stealth Rock, and obviously dropping your Choice Band is going to greatly reduce your damage output but you still have a much better offensive presence than any other hazard setter save Kingambit. Orthworm also exists as a switchin to Head Smash + Earthquake although those typically are used near the start of a game and you definitely have the moveslots to slap Body Press in or something. Might be a bit unwieldy but there's a lot to potentially like here.

If you can manage to get it on the field without taking any damage, Typhlosion's Eruption is impossible to switch into. This can be said about both the current meta and most iterations of OU. The problem is getting it on the field without any chip damage since hazard removal is difficult, but something like Mandibuzz may support this super nicely on some offense teams. You get forced out after killing something by Latios or Dragapult, and Ceruledge having Flash Fire really sucks, but you can Shadow Ball Ceruledge and Eruption does big damage to the other two. Even without Eruption or Choice Specs this might just be solid enough, as the Speed tier and coverage options look really solid here, although it of course will be difficult to get in because of just how aggressive the meta is. Also has a place on Sun teams which are a bit more fringe.

Could easily end up getting into its usual Centiskorch shenanigans here. Its special bulk is legitimately not that bad, could end up soft checking Latios and any Iron Hands variant without an Electric move, which sounds stupid but has shown up a fair amount. This thing completely abuses Slurpuff and Orthworm, plus Fire Lash is generally just a pain to switch into. You also have Bug STAB for Slowbro and Knock Off just to piss people off. On the off chance Sun takes off this would also be able to handle that alright with Flash Fire, but otherwise you can just run Flame Body to seriously mess with basically most things we see in the meta. I don't think there's any Pokemon that combines all of those defensive traits while also having this much offensive presence so that's pretty cool.

The three times I've seen people run it have all been Coil sets that have failed each and every time. One got close to doing something, but I don't think it would have gotten too far in the end. This set as a whole just does not like Iron Hands at all and feels like it needs too much to go its way to do anything. I think a better use for this could be just a more general pivoting set, maybe pairing well with Barraskewda since it can Volt Switch on Slowbro and Knock Off alongside all of its coverage is generally awkward to switch into as is. I can see why a few people have gravitated towards this mon though, it's a pretty fun one to use and doesn't look awful here.

This is here because I think it could make Sun worth using. I've actually laddered with this thing in OU a while ago back before Venusaur got Weather Ball + Chlorophyll. I remember it feeling very strong, although now it's probably slightly worse than Venusaur offensively, but way more brittle and difficult to utilize because of that. Meta's very fast-paced right now and fat Poisons being prominent is very annoying for it but I could see a Sun team being alright, or at the very least better than the stuff below this would allow.

Obviously not nearly as good as it would be with Arena Trap but I don't think Dugtrio is completely awful, at least compared to the other stuff here. If you look at the top dogs of the meta, half of the top ten most used mons are outright WEAK to Ground, and three of the remaining five are weak to Dark. You also have a Speed tier that outpaces everything except for Dragapult and Barraskewda not counting boosts. Slowbro, Mandibuzz, and Orthworm are all extremely hard stops to this even if it opts to run Swords Dance, and you'd need Substitute to at best force a nasty 50/50 with and not automatically lose to Kingambit's Sucker Punch, so I don't really think offensive sets by themselves have much merit even if they alone would make it better than some Pokemon on this list. Sash lead sets with Rocks and Memento though? Those might not be completely terrible.

It's probably not a coincidence that this is the fourth Pokemon this early on with access to EdgeQuake coverage and STAB on one of the two. Unironically I'm most curious what would happen if you ran this thing without always having the expectation of getting to click Shell Smash. Like yeah, maybe you'd get to use it against Slowbro or Muk or something but then you'd be met with Kingambit's Sucker Punch or Ceruledge's Shadow Sneak or Skuntank's Sucker Punch, so on and so forth. It does get above the dreaded "base 50 Speed tier" with Kingambit and Iron Hands and can manage a three shot against Iron Hands. Slowbro hard stops this and there's still Latios, Hawlucha, or Dragapult that can revenge kill it just as example, but it looks vaguely threatening.

Crustle has access to Spikes, Stealth Rock, Knock Off, and Sturdy. That's it. It can't knock itself out or do anything to block the opponents' attempts to remove its hazards but hazard removal isn't that common in this meta. Mandibuzz is the most common form of removal with 20% usage and an abysmal winrate anyways. Maybe you could try pulling an Ubers Cloyster kind of deal with Spikes, Shell Smash, Rock STAB and either Earthquake or Stealth Rock? Completely stuffed out by Orthworm and you'll never get too far with that because of how aggressive the meta is and how priority-focused it is, but it's still much less exploitable than Orthworm for a Spikes setter.

Crabominable is, in a vacuum, way worse than any of the Pokemon around this part of the list. I considered putting it in the bottom five at first. That may be a bit surprising but this thing just seems legitimately detrimental to do stuff with a lot of the time. Iron Hands has made having a Fighting resist all the more important, and a lot of the top dogs of the meta also don't care about its Ice STAB for one reason or another, and Earthquake does make up for this but you're having to guess between three moves. Using this just seems like it'd be a guessing game where the Crabominable user always loses, and that's assuming there's no Slowbro involved. Even if you make a correct guess you're even slower than Kingambit and Iron Hands so those two get to boost for free or at least threaten to kill you. You really should just be using Pangoro instead most of the time, with the one exception being Trick Room. Trick Room has shown some alright use in some Pet Mods and there are definitely some alright setters in here. It's also bulky enough or has the resists to not care about most of the priority in this meta. If Trick Room ends up being good this could have a place, otherwise it's atrocious.

This is a very physically-oriented meta, and so Jellicent mostly just ends up being a worse Slowbro on paper, who already is a bit weird to use but hasn't seemed that bad from the matches I've watched of it. Munkidori is a notable matchup where I feel Jellicent does a lot better, and someone might be able to argue it having a better matchup into Latios since it's not been running coverage for this. You technically don't die to two Luster Purges from full if you're max Sp. Def but it's not like you can immediately kill it back in one turn since Latios has good special bulk. This does have a few cool things in its movepool like Toxic and Taunt. Maybe someone could find a real use for all of this. I certainly wouldn't know of one.

The biggest problem with this Pokemon is that it just doesn't do a whole lot special on its own. Bulk isn't bad for a breaker but that doesn't do you a whole lot when you have no resists outside of Ghost and Grass, and just the general "blanket check everything" physical breaker is already covered by several of the meta's best Pokemon. Grass resist does nothing here and Pangoro is a lot better if you want a breaker with a Ghost resist since it also covers Dark and Psychic, which are both very relevant here. Banded Reckless Head Charge seems annoying to switch into, 2HKOing Iron Hands and coming close to it against max Speed Kingambit, but that just invites Dragapult in who doesn't really have any full counters in this meta and can do a lot with one switch in. Not worthless, really not good though.

My opinion's gone down from the already low point it was at on Jumpluff to begin with mostly because Dragapult has not been shown to be an auto-lock for most teams. I still will maintain that Jumpluff's main use is for Screens and the legitimate case that many teams will have to use Dragapult as their Screens setter makes this thing's life harder than it was when its biggest competition was Uxie. Now it has Uxie and Dragapult to deal with at the same time. The utility movepool might still give it some stuff to worth with, particularly Sleep Powder, but that may be my bias towards Jumpluff and against Sleep Powder talking.

Once again, this meta has a lot of very prevalent priority users that can all severely damage this thing's core form, and even assuming you run Substitute or something to get yourself into core form's range there's no way you're keeping a Sub up while also getting off a Shell Smash. Something with Meteor Beam instead looked interesting to me but this still runs into the same priority issue while now being slower than Dragapult as well. This all might sound really bad and you might be expecting me to drop the positive that I have for this, and, well...I've got nothing. Its stats just are not good enough and the meta is really hostile towards it, even ignoring all of the regular issues Minior has. The only reason it's not lower is because I think the Pokemon get way, WAY worse from here.

I think Ariados has a legitimate argument to be made for it not being bottom 5 on a list like this, that being that Sticky Web and Toxic Spikes together could make this a workable lead. Most teams will have one of Skuntank or Muk but teams that don't really hate Toxic Spikes, and teams that are built to handle those two might get some mileage out of this. You can chunk Kingambit with Megahorn or keep it from boosting too much with Lunge and Iron Hands won't appreciate being hit with Toxic even if ultimately you'll still then need to have a response for boosted Iron Hands on your team as well. Yeah when I said the Pokemon get way worse from here I truly meant it, this thing is awful. I can still see a world where you could build a decently successful team around this though, which is more than what can be said about the stuff below this.

So this is just a blatantly worse Typhlosion to me. Typhlosion has access to Focus Blast, Extrasensory, Eruption, and an extremely similar stat spread. Ghost immunity might be handy but I doubt you'd see a team so desperate for both a fast, specially offensive Fire and a Ghost resist that you'd drop everything else that Typhlosion has just to run this. Maybe it could happen but I'm not seeing it. I could see someone running Pyroar alongside Typhlosion for Sun but that's not even a good playstyle to begin with and I'm sure Sun would have more valuable ways of using its teamslots. So what you're left with is a Pokemon that's near directly outclassed by a different Pokemon that already isn't even close to as broken as this meta gets. I think not being good is one thing, but being outclassed is way worse here.

Yes, Belly Drum is scary, and yes, the meta being more physical is good for Eiscue. This does not save it. Latios and Dragapult are still extremely prevalent and will hard stop anything this tries to do, and priority being as commonplace as it is doesn't make things any easier for it if Ice Face needs broken. It's very weak without Belly Drum and doesn't like the lack of hazard removal options here. Ice Shard could have completely changed things here but unfortunately it doesn't learn it.

Delibird may seem like it'd have some merit thanks to Spikes, Rapid Spin, and Hustle giving it a serviceable offensive presence, but I don't think there's much weight to that. The moment your opponent sees a Delibird they'll know what you're going to try to do with it and won't waste any time killing it so it can't get too many hazards off, or for some mons potentially even set up in its face. Rapid Spin is a non-factor since this is a suicide lead and, for as few as there are, the other suicide leads in the tier just kill this. Purely offensive roles will not have any merit because of how difficult it is to get in, its Speed tier not being great for that, its inconsistency thanks to Hustle, and so on. I truly do believe it gets worse than this because at minimum this will probably end up with a Spike or two which isn't that bad when Spikes are as rare as they are, but I still think Crustle and Orthworm are just better.

So I think most people reading this by now will know that Yoshiblaze tried running this as a fast Rain setter with presumably Defog. Interesting use case for it and I like the thought, but Rain is such a fringe playstyle and opting for this just for Defog instead of Uxie doesn't seem worthwhile to me. Actually even with Defog I think you just run Mandibuzz instead since the Speed difference isn't super bad. Outside of Rain I think the issues speak for themselves - way too frail, not strong enough, nothing else to really set itself apart outside of the admittedly pretty interesting movepool.

There are so many Pokemon I've already mentioned in this list with the same few positive attributes Klawf has. Everything near the top of this list has access to Stealth Rock and what equates to the same coverage options that this does, with a lot of those having some other tangible benefits to running them. Klawf's is Regenerator, which I don't think does anything for it here because this Pokemon doesn't really check anything. Maybe Muk but it's so easy to check Muk that you really don't need something that technically does it more persistently. Aggron is similarly resilient to chip damage and has a much more realizable offensive presence than this. There is just nothing to latch onto here.

I don't have much experience with Mightyena and its typing with Intimidate looked potentially interesting for this meta, so I thought I'd at least check it out even if I didn't expect much. I mean, hey, Muk and Slurpuff are both top threats here, if there's anywhere Mightyena could have a place to shine it'd be this one, since its typing is genuinely very good here. Problem is that this thing just does not check anything it's supposed to. Not only are its stats atrocious, its movepool is absolutely terrible, with all of its attacking options having very low base power and its utility options largely being gimmicky at best when put together. This thing's only way of even checking Kingambit is by clicking Yawn, which now that I've told you this it makes the move entirely a liability to click because you know the secret strat to killing this is just to smack it and then switch out when Yawn forces you to. Sucker Punch is the one thing of note but there are so many other Pokemon with better priority moves in this meta that there is no weight to that. So with all of that, you end up with a Pokemon that just cannot deal any damage or pose much of any threat maybe outside of fishing for Poison Fang and just invites in some of the most dangerous Pokemon in the meta instead of checking them. Be my guest if you want to use this thing, and if it ever manages to do something, seriously ask yourself if there was anything better you could put on your team. I bet you there'll be at minimum two other Pokemon you come up with unless you're seriously kidding yourself.
And I think that's everything. At this point I've talked about most Pokemon in the meta so maybe I'll just do a roundup post to talk about the rest later on lmao. Hope this was fun to read, it took me a while to make as I'm sure you could imagine.
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Sorry for being a bit silent following last week's roomtours, but I've got some important NS announcements for the next few days:
  • Right now I'm not very satisfied with the amount of tour data (this is partly because we only did one tour a day instead of the originally planned two, oops). As such, there will be a third and final Slate 0 roomtour this Saturday, January 6th. Availability poll can be found here, it will be open until tomorrow night. Make sure to fill in any time slot that works with you so we can maximize participants for this last tour. Like the last tours there will be announcements in the discord one hour in advance and when signups open (Maybe I'll remember to ping this time :bellipog:)
  • Regarding group placement for Slate 0:
    • Group A placement will be determined by comparing the total wins of the top 10 Pokemon - basically there's a non-zero chance that Pangoro or Muk will get into Group A instead of Ceruledge or Latios as expected, so uhh, keep your eyes peeled for that.
    • Placement for lower groups will depend solely on winrate- This is primarily to minimize user manipulation by spamming their favorite low-tier mons to keep them from placing into Group A (extinction). You have to at least win with a competent team alongside your shitmon of choice if you want to save them. Is this targeted hate toward Eelektross? Maybe.
      • In the case that more than 5 mons get zero wins (which probably will happen tbh), a Google Form will be made and posted shortly after the roomtour this Saturday to decide which mons are put in which Groups.
        And just between you and me, there may be a special bonus for the winners and top 5 players... (it's not money or discord nitro don't get your hopes too high)
      • Yeah this is what the "special bonus" in question was going to be - only the council and top tour players were going to do this but I'm deciding to open it up to the whole community.
    • Bear in mind that the above guidelines might change for future slates.
  • Expect the first submission slate to open no later than next Wednesday!
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is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Hey! I know I'm not the owner of this mod, but roomtours are now over and I quickly wanted to paste usage stats...
PokemonUseUsageWinrateWin Count
Iron Hands4984.48%46.94%23
PokemonUseUsageWinrateWin Count
Iron Hands4984.48%46.94%23
Will either edit in or make another post about my thoughts on the meta, plus some mons I'd want to highlight
Dropping in quick to post the link for the aforementioned low-tier ranking poll, which can be found here. Pretty simple, all 13 mons that didn't get wins in the tournaments are listed, rank them from best to worst, average ranking determines group placement.
Huge thanks to DuoM2 for helping to make the form, as I've been more busy this weekend than I expected - he's practically a council member with how much of the mod he's volunteered to help with :zonger:

Poll will be open until Tuesday morning. Good luck
Starting this post off with the results of the group placement poll:
Group C (Maintain) - :typhlosion:(2.176) :jellicent:(2.765) :victreebel:(4.059)
Group B (Adapt) - :eelektross:(4.529) :dugtrio:(5.882) :bouffalant:(6.294) :crabominable:(6.412) :klawf:(8.118)
Group A (Extinction) - :emolga:(8.706) :eiscue:(9.000) :ariados:(10.000) :delibird:(11.235) :mightyena:(11.824)
Screenshot 2024-01-08 224519.png
A huge loss for the Fur Coat Emolga hypesquad. As stated in the OP, while mons that land in Group A will still appear in the teambuilder, it is purely for archival purposes and they are no longer legal for play.

And with that marks the end of Slate 0! The playtesting/tournament phase of this slate was quite bumpy, and while I would claim to make this part of the mod more consistent, college is starting up again in about a week for me, so no promises okay?
That's enough talk though, let the first round of submissions begin!

Group D: Diverge - Kingambit, Iron Hands, Dragapult, Slurpuff, Ceruledge
Group D Sub Restrictions - New Pokemon you sub must share the following attributes to the original Pokemon:
  • Exact same BST (you may redistribute stats)
  • At least one type
  • At least one ability
  • Inherits the movepool of the 'ancestor' mon - while you can add/remove moves freely, keep this is mind when making your sub(s).
Original Pokemon:
Movepool Changes:
Explanation: Explain the Pokemon's competitive role and how it fits in the current meta.
Flavor: Explain what caused the original Pokemon to adapt this way. Yes it is required, but you don't have to be very in-depth about it.
- New mons in this group can be named either as alternate forms or as entirely new fakemon.

Group B: Adapt - Eelektross, Dugtrio, Bouffalant, Crabominable, Klawf
Group B Sub Restrictions - You can make the following changes to the attributes of a Group B Pokemon:
  • Add/Remove/Change one Type
  • Add/Replace up to two abilities
  • Base Stats; +15 to a single stat a/o +30BST max
    • Stat Floor Rule: If a Pokemon's BST is below 500 (after the allotted +30), you can add additional points up to 500 BST. Singular stat cap increases by 5 for every 10 additional points past 30 given.
  • Up to 5 move additions (8 if you also changed typing, for new STABs)
Movepool Changes:
Explanation: Explain how the changes help the Pokemon in the current meta.
(note: attributes in this template you do not change can be omitted in the sub)
- Example of stat floor rule: Klawf has a BST of 450, so you can increase its BST up to 500 instead of 480, with a limit of +25 to a single stat.

- Keep in mind that while custom elements are allowed, they should be relatively easy to code; no crazy effects please.
- This won't be enforced, but if you plan to make subs for most or all of the mons, please put each group in spoiler boxes as to minimize thread clutter.

Submissions will be open for a week, closing next Tuesday night (1/16). Now then, make like a deli and start cooking those subs!
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is a Community Contributoris a Community Leader Alumnus
Name: Iron Blimp
Original Pokemon: Iron Hands
Type: Electric/Flying
Abilities: Quark Drive / --- | Motor Drive
Stats: 104/100/118/80/68/90 (570)
Movepool Changes: full movepool below
Explanation: The day is dim and cloudy. Rain falls quietly for as far as the eye can see. Iron Hands exits his car wearing a full black suit, tears gently falling down his face. Kingambit approaches him standing strong. "Hey buddy, I know how much he meant to you. I'm so sorry." The two of them walk together with Kingambit's hand firmly planted on Iron Hands's shoulder and take two open seats next to one another. Iron Hands begins sobbing hysterically out of nowhere. "Why was he taken from us so soon? To hell with this cruel world!" Before the crowd of seats sits a podium where a man would soon begin to speak about the death of everyone's good friend Emolga.
Flavor: he turned into a blimp
i'm stuff
Name: Silvuredge
Original Pokemon: Ceruledge
Type: Fire/Steel
Abilities: Flash Fire / --- | Weak Armor
Stats: 75/125/70/60/100/95 (600)
Movepool Changes: +Iron Head, Bullet Punch, -Bulk Up
Explanation: Everyone's going to make their subs beat Iron Hands, so I'm going to make something pretty strong that loses to it. The meta doesn't really have many great Steels outside of Kingambit and Orthworm and I'm sure some would appreciate the different defensive utility this one has. This should serve as a nice check to WispHex Dragapult and, in a pinch, Latios. Bullet Punch also means you can check Slurpuff. The defense stat is greatly lowered so stuff like Muk and Skuntank can hit you for heavy damage if you try boosting on them.
Flavor: Ceruledge realized that it could forge its own metal swords using its Fire and then started putting those where its nonexistent extendable fire sword arms went.

Name: Dragacold
Original Pokemon: gee golly gosh i wonder
Type: Ice/Dragon
Abilities: Clear Body / Infiltrator | Dazzling
Stats: 108/90/85/110/85/122 (600)
Movepool Changes: +Earth Power, Ice Beam, Parting Shot, -U-Turn as well as all Ghost, Electric, and Fire moves (can provide a list later)
Explanation: We need more specially offensive Pokemon, more pivots, and I want more things that Jellicent can answer. Comparing this to Kyurem scares me a bit even though I know that thing was fine before without Freeze-Dry. I kept it fast because pseudo BST is huge for this meta and I really don't want to make this any more of a stat stick lmao. Dazzling is cool for potential Scarf sets and the Speed tier I kind of arbitrarily chose but I wanted to diversify the Speed tiers some.
Flavor: Dragapult does not like eating Ice-type moves so it wanted to inflict its pain on the world
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howdyguyz I’m here to do the funny

New Mons!

Name: Iron Gloves
Original Pokemon: Iron Hands :iron hands:
Type: Fighting/Steel
Abilities: Quark Drive
Movepool Changes: + Meteor Mash, Knock Off, Bullet Punch, Stealth Rock, Sucker Punch
Explanation: Really good mixed wall and pivot, weaker than hands but a much better defensive typing, has great setup potential and is a real steel not named gambit. Does have heavy competition for its spot though with Iron Hands and Kingambit, but it Definetly has its place as a unique Mon in the tier.
Flavor: A Paradox Makuhita :makuhita:
As Iron Hands thrived through sheer bulk and tanking opponents attacks, many of their decendants had been engineered in a bulkier fashion, resembling punching bags, and overall being more adept in taking on foes like Kingambit, Latios, and Dragapult.

Name: Pompuff
Original Pokemon: Slurpuff :Slurpuff:
Type: Fairy/Poison
Abilities: Corrosion, Unburden
Stats: 92/70/96/85/75/65
Movepool Changes: + Parting Shot, Sludge Bomb, Sludge Wave, Acid Spray, Gunk Shot, Belch, Baneful Bunker, (if it doesn’t have toxic already it should have that)
-Flamethrower, Belly Drum
Explanation: Physdef + Utility Fairy, Additional Poison as well, with a unique way to find viability through corrosion being able to poison typical fairy answers, but ground and psychic weaknesses are less than ideal.
Flavor: Despite Slurpuff being a thriving species, one of their main flaws was being snacked on by Pokémon like Muk and Skuntank, so in response, many slurpuff developed to have corrosive toxins that could impact these noxious predators. Not only did they develop literal venom, but they also inherited a toxic mentality alongside it, viewing the world as their oyster, and egotistical as they can be, themselves as natural survivors against the odds. A new level of narcissism only potentially met by the kingambit of the region has seemed to emerge.
Name: Draknight


Original Pokemon
: Kingambit :kingambit:
Type: Steel/Dragon
Abilities: Competitive, No Guard, Pressure
Stats: 120/65/75/115/100/75
Movepool Changes: + Glare, Draco Meteor, Dragon Dance, Dragon Pulse, Dragon Breath, Aura Sphere, Dragon Tail, Spikes, Calm Mind, Hydro Pump, Surf
- Sucker Punch, Dark Pulse, Kowtow Cleave
Explanation: cool dragon with the cool shit, either Utility or Offensibe idk do things, it also does give Jellicent more of a purpose by walling this guy, likewise with shit like centi (this isn’t running water coverage sorry)
Flavor: mimicry is a thing that things do a lot! So so some less successful kingambit did this with Latios to scare off more threatening attacks to them, while baiting weaker ones that gave them setup opps

Name: Verdegis
Original Pokemon: Ceruledge :Ceruledge:
Type: Fire/Bug
Abilities: Mountaineer (from CAP) / Flash Fire
Stats: 90/110/110/50/110/55
Movepool Changes: + Body Press, Restless Shield, U-Turn, Ariados’s Movepool
- All Ghost Moves, Bitter Blade, Close Combat, Sacred Sword
Restless Shield:
Fire typed Body Press. That simple.
Explanation: Bug/Fire is honestly not a bad typing when you get rid of rocks, has a lot of defensive merit alongside the bulk it has, with easy setup potential and a cool new stab toy, I could see this doing quite well. In addition it still has a hazard stack movepool to use if you’d like to pursue such, overall just a lot of options, but hot body press is fun. Checks mons like Pult, Hands, Latios, Slurpuff(flawless), and others. Cool guy.
Flavor: Ceruledge are created when enough Sinistea tokens are amassed to forge a set of armor, yet Sinistea are nowhere to be found in the home region, yet, there were mass deaths of other Pokémon. One in particular was the ariados species, which unfortunately was wiped out of the region due to unfortunate circumstances. Yet these remnants leave behind more than enough material to make new Armor, leading into a new potential evolution for Charcadets across the region.

Buffed Mons!
Name: Dugtrio
Type: Ground / Dark
Abilities: Analytic, Arena Trap, Sand Force
Stats: 60(+25)/105(+5)/75(+25)/55(+5)75(+5)/125(+5)
Movepool Changes: + Bulk Up, Headlong Rush, Parting Shot
Explanation: Premier offensive threat and effective trapper due to its insane speed, analytic, and stab sucker creating some nasty 50/50. Arena trap is still illegal but analytic hits any switchin for massive damage, and it even has pivoting to escape dangerous situations, the main issue this has is despite the bulk buffs it’s still frail and it doesn’t have all the turns to do all it wants. Mandi, Eel, Really any ground check deal with it fine. (Had stakeout earlier but that’s stupid, analytic is fine.)
Name: Eelektross
Type: Electric / Water
Abilities: Levitate
Stats: 85/115/80/105/80/50
Movepool Changes: + Surf, Hydro Pump, Scald, Flip Turn, Wave Crash, Parabolic Charge, Aqua Jet
Explanation: yeah so you know rotom-wash? That thing, but can attack on whatever side it wants to, at the cost of slow as dick.
Name: Crabominable
Type: Ice / Fighting
Abilities: Technician, Iron Fist, Anger Point
Stats: 112(+15)/132/82(+5)/62/67/53(+10)
Movepool Changes: + Ice Shard, Mach Punch, Icicle Spear, Swords Dance, Flip Turn
- Knock Off
Explanation: what Scizor does but with a really beneficial type for the meta offensively, ice/fighting is great offensively, and with rlly strong prio into mons like Dragapult, Latios, and Kingambit, and setup, or pivoting if band, it gets the job done dirty. Does kinda get walled hard by Slowbro and Jellicent tho, Ceruledge too if it ain’t eq, and it doesn’t enjoy Iron Hands either without eq as well.
Name: Klawf
Type: Rock / Ghost
Abilities: Anger Shell, Shell Armor, Regenerator
Stats: 85(+15)/110(+10)/115/35/60(+5)/75
Movepool Changes: + Poltergeist, Spiky Shield, Spikes, Flip Turn, Rapid Spin, Close Combat, Knock Off, Shadow Sneak
Explanation: rock/ghost fucking shits on lucha that’s fun, itemless beats ceru as well (even with cc which 99% of people just say “until it runs cc” which is valid until it does.) but other than that, it can sneak into the 3 main ghost Weaks, and pivot around like Regen guys do
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Gravity Monkey

Que des barz comme si jtais au hebs
is a Top Artist
Name: Klawf

Abilities: Anger Shell / Shell Armor / Regenerator
Stats: 85 (+15) / 115 (+15) / 125 (+10) / 35 / 55 / 75 (BST: 500 (+50))
Movepool Changes: + Earthquake, Sand Tomb, Spiky Shield
Explanation: Makes for a real ground-type and a SR setter. Becomes an ok Kingambit/Iron Hands check thanks to Regen and its new bulk, especially since it outspeeds them.

252+ Atk Quark Drive Iron Hands Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klawf: 152-180 (40.6 - 48.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ Atk Quark Drive Iron Hands Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klawf: 183-216 (48.9 - 57.7%) -- 95.3% chance to 2HKO
252+ Atk Black Glasses Kingambit Kowtow Cleave vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klawf: 117-138 (31.2 - 36.8%) -- 71.6% chance to 3HKO

0 Atk Klawf Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Kingambit: 206-246 (60.4 - 72.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
0 Atk Klawf Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Iron Hands: 228-270 (44.5 - 52.7%) -- 22.3% chance to 2HKO

Flavor: Klawf started hiding in the sand to get away from its natural predators Iron Hands and Kingambit. Lucky for it, this type of environment matched the weakness of both Pokémon, and it was now able to use hit and run tactics to win against them.

Name: Bouffalant

Abilities: Reckless / Sap Sipper / Shed Skin
Stats: 110 (+15) / 110 / 110 (+15) / 40 / 95 / 55 (BST: 520 (+30))
Movepool Changes: + Play Rough, Body Press, Curse
Explanation: Soo I dont know if youve noticed but fairy is kinda good atm like its crazy riiight? I didnt necessarily want to completely usurp Slurpuff's niche in the meta, thats why this bad boy doesnt really have any new utility nor access to reliable recovery. To compensate, its just really fat. Basically just supposed to use Pult as set up fodder and then try to win from there. Shed Skin hopefully makes Rest a bit more alluring as an option, esp considering how important WoW is in the meta.
Flavor: Having to stay half-awake at night to be able to flee if predators came by, Bouffalant got more exposed to the moon than usual. This led it to develop strange and mystical powers and caused its hair to grow exponentially, now having to shed it almost every day.

Name: Dragaplunge
Original Pokemon: Dragapult

Abilities: Clear Body / Infiltrator / Levitate
Stats: 98 (+10) / 110 (-10) / 75 / 110 (+10) / 75 / 132 (-10) (BST: 600)
Movepool Changes: - Thunder, Thunderbolt, Phantom Force, Will-O-Wisp, Hex
+ Waterfall, Ice Beam, Blizzard, Surf, Aqua Tail
Explanation: Water is a very good STAB to have in the meta, resists being either fairly rare or very weak to dragon. A new powerful and threatening water pivot/breaker would make the use of mons like Jellicent or Slowbro hopefully more appealing. As for Dragaplunge itself, just like Pult, it's a pretty flexible pick. Levitate grants it some more switch-in opportunities as well as a very appreciated spikes/tspikes immunity, letting it be more flexible with its item choice. Its stronger on the special side, making specs set very threatning, but it also has a much better typing and a much better secondary stab to use DD sets, even though its a bit weaker on the phys side.
Flavor: The overabundance of Dragapult forced some populations to search elsewhere for preys. Some of them started fishing in the local fresh water areas, this new diet slowly changing their typing and their constitution.
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