Metagame Nature Swap [OM of the Month]

This team is really nice

Regice @ Assault Vest
Ability: Clear Body
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Rash Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Flash Cannon
- Focus Blast
- Ice Beam
- Thunderbolt

Diancie-Mega @ Diancite
Ability: Magic Bounce
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Moonblast
- Power Gem
- Heal Bell

Ninjask (M) @ Focus Sash
Ability: Speed Boost
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe
Brave Nature
- Protect
- U-turn
- Return
- Leech Life

Landorus-Therian @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 Spe
Bold Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Toxic
- Grass Knot
- Stealth Rock
- Defog

Tapu Koko @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Electric Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Modest Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Thunderbolt
- Dazzling Gleam
- Volt Switch
- Hidden Power [Ice]

Torkoal (M) @ Choice Specs
Ability: Drought
Shiny: Yes
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Eruption
- Fire Blast
- Earth Power
- Sludge Bomb
 
This team is really nice
Might want to elaborate more on your team, like what each mon does for the rest of its teammates.

To not leave this as a one-liner, and to end Nature Swap nicely, here's a stall team that I've had a lot of success with:

triple-regen + poison heal + unaware stall


big oof (Clefable) @ Leftovers
Ability: Unaware
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpD
Impish Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Moonblast
- Heal Bell

New Stats: 95/70/95/73/90/60
Obviously, there has to be something that takes care of physical boosters like Azumarill and Landorus-Therian. This fat fairy takes care of most setup sweepers (bar Steels and Poisons). Wish is usually more reliable than Moonlight, and can heal other teammates in a pinch. Protect makes sure that Clefable doesn't get KO'd after Wish. Moonblast is self-explanatory, and Heal Bell removes crippling poisons. Watch out for its PP, though.


goof (Gliscor) @ Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Atk / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
IVs: 0 Spe
- Earthquake
- Facade
- Curse
- Protect / Roost

New Stats: 75/95/125/45/95/75
Main wincon against fat teams. EQ and Facade hit most of the meta (bar Skarmory, Celesteela, Aerodactyl and Drifblim, but they aren't too viable either). Curse is my choice of boosting, for it also boosts my Defense. Minimum Speed allows Gliscor to underspeed base 50 at -1 for Trick Room teams. Protect helps activate Toxic Orb while Roost is reliable recovery if Toxic Orb is knocked off.


:b:izor (Scizor-Mega) @ Scizorite
Ability: Technician
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Bullet Punch
- Defog
- Roost
- U-turn

New Stats: 70/100/140/65/150/75
Defogger for the team. 70/140/150 bulk is amazing, complete with a nice typing. Bullet Punch is a nice revenge killer, especially since 100 Attack is still pretty high. Defog and Roost for obvious reasons, and U-turn is a nice pivoting move. You could run negative speed for that slow pivot but I've never found it that useful.


alololololmao (Alomomola) @ Leftovers
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Wish
- Protect
- Scald
- Toxic / Knock Off

New Stats: 165/45/80/40/75/65
First regen mon. Great wishpasser (also since it doesn't have any other recovery kek). Scald spreads burns on physical non-Fires, while Toxic cripples specials. I tried Knock Off initially, and it does okay removing choice items and such, but Toxic is usually better in the long run.


mega thicc (Tornadus-Therian) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Sassy Nature
- Hurricane
- Knock Off
- Focus Blast
- U-turn

New Stats: 79/100/80/110/121/90
Holy shit is this thing bulky.
252+ SpA Regigigas Thunderbolt vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 106-126 (29.2 - 34.8%) -- 9% chance to 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Blacephalon Overheat vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 150-177 (41.4 - 48.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Choice Specs Tapu Lele Psychic vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian in Psychic Terrain: 141-166 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Swampert-Mega Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian in Rain: 141-166 (38.9 - 45.8%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252 SpA Pixilate Gardevoir-Mega Hyper Voice vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 90-106 (24.8 - 29.2%) -- 100% chance to 4HKO
252+ SpA Weavile Ice Beam vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 132-156 (36.4 - 43%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Sheer Force Darmanitan Fire Blast vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Assault Vest Tornadus-Therian: 114-135 (31.4 - 37.2%) -- 82.7% chance to 3HKO

Main special blanket check (bar Tapu Koko cause that shit broke af). Hurricane for STAB, Knock Off to hit Ghosts and Psychics hard and also remove choice items, Focus Blast is nice coverage for Steels. U-Turn is a good pivoting move.


BIG gay (Tangrowth) @ Assault Vest
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
IVs: 30 Atk
- Giga Drain
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sludge Bomb
- Knock Off

New Stats: 100/50/125/110/100/50
Also stupidly bulky, though a mono Grass type hurts it sometimes. Has a pretty nice type synergy with Tornadus-Therian by covering its Electric weakness while Tornadus-Therian covers Bug. Alomomola brings it all together by resisting Ice and Fire. Giga Drain heals some damage, HP Fire hits opposing Grass, Bug, and Steel types, Sludge Bomb hits Fairies and also has a nifty chance to Poison, and Knock Off removes items.

Honorable Mention:

fat fug (Salamence) @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 HP / 252 Def / 4 SpA
Bold Nature
- Toxic
- Dragon Tail / Defog / Draco Meteor
- Flamethrower / Defog
- Roost

New Stats: 95/80/135/110/80/100
Really nice physical tank. Phazes, can remove rocks, and can also score some KOs with Flamethrower off of its decent 110 SpA. I used to have this over Gliscor but found that its 4x Ice weakness and 2x Stealth Rock weakness kind of sucked. Definitely a good tank though.


swo0o0ole (Buzzwole) @ Leftovers
Ability: Beast Boost
EVs: 252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpD
Calm Nature
- Lunge
- Toxic
- Roost
- Drain Punch

New Stats: 107/53/139/53/139/79
Great mixed bulk, Lunge is pretty neat too. Had this over Tangrowth but Buzzwole's myriad of weaknesses and the appeal of a third Regenerator made me switch the two.

Threatlist:
Offensive Steel types: This team has a bit of a struggle with stuff like Mawile-Mega, offensive Kartana, and offensive Doublade. Gliscor handles them well if it can set up a Curse, and Scizor-Mega can revenge kill if they're at low health, but otherwise u click x :c

Stall Teams with Pressure: Stuff like defensive Zapdos pose a problem to the team, especially Clefable, pressuring it (pun intended) to use Heal Bell by spreading Toxic. Switching in Scizor or Gliscor into it works pretty well but be careful of surprise Heat Waves and Whirlwinds, respectively.

Special Attackers with Ice-type moves: Mons like Magearna, Regigigas, and Tapu Koko can OHKO or at least severely dent Gliscor, and when Gliscor's dead you'll basically have to Toxic stall, which is not fun. Scouting them with Tangrowth or Alomomola works pretty well, though.

Matchups:
Hyper Offense: Unless they carry a Steel sweeper or get hax, most teams pretty much fall apart due to constant healing and crippling status. Keep Clefable healthy, keep Gliscor and Scizor-Mega healthy, and you should win pretty easily.

Bulky Offense / Balance: Probably the hardest matchup due to fat boosters and more Steel types. Gliscor's usually your best bet at beating them.

Stall: beats stall ez kek Watch out for Espeon and Sableye-Mega, and preserve your Heal Bell as much as possible (i.e. don't Heal Bell one mon), otherwise it's a pretty good matchup.

i dont really have many nature swap replays because it takes a shit ton of time to win xd

vs. Stall (Daily Finals!)

ill go look for more replays cause i have like 1000 alts, insert conclusion here
 
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We did it.

Quick PSA, currently the teambuilder is a little funky, and to invest in swapped stat you need to invest in the original stat that is being swapped.

Landorus-Therian @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 SpD
Jolly Nature
- Earthquake
- Stone Edge
- Knock Off
- U-turn

Here is your very basic Scarf Nyandorus, with the EVs that would be in Speed put in Special Attack, because reasons. I don't know the coding.
 
I've been having a lot of fun with this team:

Alakazam-Mega @ Alakazite
Ability: Magic Guard
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Ice Punch
- Zen Headbutt
- Drain Punch
- Fire Punch

Magearna @ Electrium Z
Ability: Soul-Heart
EVs: 252 Def / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Fleur Cannon
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Flash Cannon

Lucario @ Life Orb
Ability: Justified
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 SpA / 4 Spe
Jolly Nature
- Close Combat
- Swords Dance
- Meteor Mash
- Extreme Speed

Togekiss @ Choice Scarf
Ability: Serene Grace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Naive Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Air Slash
- Aura Sphere
- Dazzling Gleam
- Fire Blast

Shuckle @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Sturdy
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Hasty Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Sticky Web
- Stealth Rock
- Encore
- Toxic

Mantine @ Rocky Helmet
Ability: Water Absorb
EVs: 252 HP / 188 Def / 68 SpD
Lax Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Roost
- Defog
- Scald
- Toxic
 
So I found my old sand team from when I was playing this back in gen 6. It's almost exactly as toxic as it was before and I haven't even needed to update it yet!
 
BUG UPDATE: EVS are currently being weird. If you are swapping Atk and Speed and you want to be fast, put the EVs into Atk and they will be swapped over to Speed as WELL as the base stat. So a Hasty Aggron that wants to maximize speed and atk will run 252 Atk, 252 Def (with the defense stat and evs swapping over to speed).
This should be fixed btw.

Mega Camerupt is by far my favourite Mon so far. Timid (+spe -spa) and spam eruptions:
Camerupt-Mega @ Cameruptite
Ability: Sheer Force
EVs: 6 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
IVs: 0 Atk
- Earth Power
- Eruption
- Protect
- Flash Cannon
Sheer force does help with Earth Power and Flash cannon. Boosts them over 100 BP.

Oh also check out the /natureswap command :)
 

-Latios-

PLOT ARMOR INTENSIFIES



100/80/50/60/80/50

This mon just clicks Belly Drum and Aqua Jets unprepared teams. I spam Trick Room because I have no brain so even water resists like phys. def Mantine will get rocked. A lot of people just use a Pokemon with high physical defense and swap it with speed so Azumarill can find easy opportunities to take those Pokemon. Unaware Quagsire does not avoid the 2HKO from Play Rough.



60/110/80/50/80/45

Alolan Marowak casually hits 700 attack, which is excellent under Trick Room (notice a trend). Again, people just swapping bulk for offenses or speed is very beneficial for agent 00Bone. I use Bonemerang to hit shit like Aggron or Steelix that have Sturdy. Swords Dance can be used to punch through Alomomola (doing 93.5 - 109.9%), though Substitute also has its uses against Sucker Punch users like Bisharp or simply passive Pokemon.



50/125/105/55/95/50

Under Trick Room Mega Mawile just picks teams apart. Fire Fang is nice for Steels, while Knock Off just hits a lot of Pokemon neutrally. Sucker Punch can be exchanged for Swords Dance but there is almost no point in clicking SD when this Pokemon has 766 attack. It doesn't even lose all that much bulk, and its Intimidate is nice pre-mega for coming in against strong physical attackers.

I can see the possibility of swapping defense and speed for Mawile when using a non Trick Room build. It's still slower than a lot of the prime offensive threats, so I wouldn't recommend it that much.
 
Hey guys, this month the metagame is settled enough to work on a viabilty ranking!
At the end of the last time this was OMotM, some of the more experienced players drafted up a VR including some of the more common pokemon. Lets use this as a starting point for discussion:

S Rank:

S Rank

Magearna (Timid, Hasty, Naive)

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Mega Diancie (Timid)
Kartana (Timid, Hasty, Bold, Sassy, Modest, Gentle, Lonely)
Magnezone (Hasty)
Salamence (Bold)
Tapu Bulu (Hasty, Modest, Gentle)
Tapu Lele (Naive)

A Rank:
Aggron (Hasty)
View attachment 184203Mega Aggron (Hasty, Lonely, Modest, Gentle)
Buzzwole (Hasty, Sassy)
Clefable (Impish)
View attachment 184205Mega Mawile (Hasty, Lonely)
Mega Steelix (Hasty)
View attachment 184204Mega Tyranitar (Hasty, Naive, Modest)

A- Rank:
Doublade (Lonely)
Hawlucha (Brave)
View attachment 184232Landorus-Therian (Bold, Calm, Timid, Jolly)
Metagross (Hasty)
View attachment 184206Mega Scizor (Modest, Hasty, Gentle, Calm)
Shuckle (Naive, Hasty, Lonely)
Tangrowth (Calm, Jolly)
Wishiwashi (Jolly, Timid, Naive)


B Rank:

B+ Rank:

View attachment 184207Mega Absol (Bold)
Araquanid (Naive, Lonely)
Azumarill (Lonely, Naughty)
Celesteela (Impish, Timid)
Ferrothorn (Gentle, Modest)
Gastrodon (Impish)
Heatran (Timid, Naive, Hasty)
Nihilego (Relaxed, Adamant, Naive)
Reuniclus (Impish, Lax)
Skarmory (Hasty, Gentle)
Toxapex (Rash, Gentle, Mild, Lonely, Naughty)

B Rank:
Alakazam (Relaxed)
View attachment 184213Mega Alakazam (Relaxed, Adamant)
Amoonguss (Bold, Timid)
View attachment 184233Ash-Greninja (Quiet, Bold)
View attachment 184209Mega Camerupt (Timid)
Carbink (Rash)
View attachment 184210Mega Charizard-X (Jolly)
View attachment 184214Mega Gardevoir (Adamant, Naive)
Gliscor (Gentle, Timid, Sassy)
View attachment 184208Mega Heracross (Naive)
Jirachi (Calm)
Kommo-o (Hasty, Timid)
View attachment 184215Mega Pinsir (Hasty)
Primarina (Naive)
Regigigas (Modest)
View attachment 184211Mega Slowbro (Mild, Timid)
Snorlax (Bold, Naive)
Steelix (Hasty, Mild)
Togekiss (Naive, Adamant)
Torkoal (Hasty)
Volcanion (Timid)
Zapdos (Bold, Relaxed)

B- Rank:
View attachment 184218Mega Abomasnow (Jolly, Timid)
Accelgor (Relaxed)
Alomomola (Calm)
View attachment 184217Mega Charizard-Y (Adamant, Naive, Bold)
Espeon (Relaxed)
View attachment 184222Mega Garchomp (Timid, Hasty)
Goodra (Naughty, Rash, Lax)
View attachment 184221Mega Gyarados (Modest, Naive)
Hippowdon (Calm, Bold)
Hoopa (Naive, Timid, Jolly)
Latias (Naive)
View attachment 184220Mega Latias (Impish, Naive)
View attachment 184224Mega Lopunny (Timid)
Mantine (Lax, Naughty)
Alolan Marowak (Hasty, Lonely)
Mimikyu (Naughty)
Pelipper (Hasty, Careful)
Quagsire (Calm)
Regice (Naive)
View attachment 184216Mega Sableye (Gentle, Jolly)
View attachment 184226Mega Sceptile (Adamant)
View attachment 184219Mega Swampert (Modest, Jolly)
Tapu Koko (Modest, Brave)
Tyranitar (Naive)

C Rank:

C+ Rank:

Avalugg (Gentle)
View attachment 184228Mega Beedrill (Relaxed)
Carracosta (Hasty)
Diggersby (Brave)
Florges (Naive)
Forretress (Hasty)
View attachment 184229Mega Glalie (Jolly, Timid)
Alolan Golem (Hasty)
Guzzlord (Impish, Careful, Bold, Calm)
Honchkrow (Bold)
Keldeo (Adamant)
Kyurem (Jolly)
Latios (Impish)
Linoone (Brave)
Machamp (Modest)
Ninjask (Brave)
Regirock (Lonely)
Sylveon (Naive, Adamant)
Tentacruel (Lax)
View attachment 184235Tornadus-Therian (Relaxed)
Tsareena (Naive)
View attachment 184230Mega Venusaur (Jolly, Timid)
Vileplume (Impish)
Volcarona (Jolly, Naive)

C Rank:
Breloom (Bold, Calm)
Marowak (Hasty, Lonely)
Roserade (Lax)
Swellow (Quiet)

C- Rank:
Bewear (Bold)
Alolan Persian (Relaxed)
Probopass (Mild, Rash)


In particular, lets talk about the A- rank and above. Are there mons there that are misplaced, either too high or too low? Do you agree Magearna is the best pokemon in the metagame?

Feel free to make additional nominations or critiques about the rest of the tier list, but pls give replays and strong reasoning like in any other VR thread :)
The tier list that will be updated to reflect meta changes will be the one on the front page of this thread.
 

Chazm

yeet
is a Pre-Contributor
Here's my view on the current VR:
S Rank:

S Rank

Magearna (Timid, Hasty, Naive)
Kartana (Hasty, Sassy, Bold, Modest)

A Rank:

A+ Rank

Aggron (Hasty)
Mega Diancie (Timid)
Mega Mawile (Hasty, Lonely)
Landorus-Therian (Timid, Bold, Jolly)
Tapu Lele (Naive)
Shuckle (Naive, Hasty)

A Rank:

Buzzwole (Hasty, Sassy)
Magnezone (Hasty)
Salamence (Bold)
Tapu Bulu (Hasty, Modest)
Mega Steelix (Hasty)

A- Rank:

Mega Aggron (Hasty, Lonely)
Araquanid (Naive, Naughty, Rash)
Tangrowth (Calm, Jolly)
Mega Tyranitar (Hasty, Naive, Modest)

No, even with Magnezone being decent I don't think this subtracts from Kartana being S ranked in this metagame. Not only does it have a lot more versatility in its spreads which it can use to both provide more utility and evade Zone but its flagship Hasty is so good on webs it might as well invalidate Zone anyway since the two go so well together. In general the sheer quantity of different Z crystals both can use to end the game very quickly makes these two S ranked quite easily.
You might think I'm bluffing putting Shuckle in A+, but I'm not kidding. Nature Swap is a very speed control based game, and a webs setter as strong as Speed Shuckle is practically guaranteed to get webs up quickly. Even the likes of Final Gambit will do dents in counterleads like Mega Diancie, and it's always easy enough to force pressure on Dia with your large set of powerful breakers anyway (see: S ranks). This mon's really constraining for how good Webs is, and a lot of mons have moved up and down from A+ because of this change. Mawile, despite its low defense, still doesn't have to wory about priority ruining its job, rather, it needs more to worry about Scarf Landorus-Therian, yet again showing its role compression this metagame. However, even with this it still forces webs or multiple kills, which makes it a monster to deal with. Aggron is much the same - not only is it a solid lead but it's a solid offensive presence, capable of taking a lot of slower targets out of the game with its absolutely blazing 180 speed, solid coverage and general utility in alternate web setter matchups (see: Araquanid)
You may be irritated at how I've gone and moved Salamence down - this is because of the Manectite Mew vibes that it gives off, being unable to adequately punish the special attackers like Magearna, Tapu Lele, and Mega Diancie - a general lack of checks for these in a hyper offensive metagame make Mence a poor fit than it would initially seem. This is the same for Magnezone, which cannot successfully trap a lot of its targets unless specific conditions are scouted for - is the Kartana scarved? is the Magearna capable of outspeeding? Which often means its role has waned as it is used dduring the end of the game. Bulu also moves down here because its speed is less than stellar in Nature Swap - 115 is good but unless you can boost or find some other way to hit harder than mons like Kart it's not worth your time trying to get past Webs / Mence / Magearna etc.
In general I think Araquanid is better at the fast water role than Wishiwashi for a few reasons - Webs and Spider Web - allowing it to act as an offensive trapper whilst threatening the best hazard in the metagame at the moment. Outside of webs, I'll admit: Wishiwashi is better when considering other matchups like Hasty Kartana and Salamence, but imo not relevant enough to score here. MTar was moved down due to competition with Aggron and Mega Diancie, with the two being the generally preferred offensive rock types as the two can play somewhat lead matchup whilst also threatening one of the main metagame staples at least. Nuked Clef because it's too passive in a speed control based metagame and gets overwhelmed by the offensive steels far too easily.
 
Wishiwashi's ability to soft check Hasty Kartana* when Kartana is one of the best Pokemon in the metagame feels pretty significant to me. Wishiwashi is also one of the few Pokemon that can outrun the base 230s with just a Scarf. Araquanid deserves its spot in A-, but I think Wishiwashi belongs there as well. Otherwise, I agree with the rest of your rankings.

*: 252 SpA Wishiwashi Ice Beam vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Kartana: 249-294 (95.7 - 113%) -- 75% chance to OHKO
 
Just to pick one point out of this, I could see Shuckle being A but perhaps not A+. Everyone knows the set, but its still nearly unstoppable and causes a big upset in the right matchup. Shuckle's #1 issue is magic bounce users,which more people should be incorporating into their team imo (mega diancie, either jolly specs espeon or a defensive set, and bold/calm mega absol is a good mon too). But Encore is a game saving move alongside its incredible setting ability, I could see Shuckle being higher than A-. Maybe Id say A because it has those deadweight matchups and also cant stop Z sweepers reliably with its encore, or mons that just will click the same button through your team like modest Mega Swampert or Kartana, as well as not being very helpful vs Trick Room (which often have herb) or stallier matchups. It also has a shallow purpose and feels forced to lead (struggles with getting potentially oneshot once sturdy is broken by hazards) and cant win matches by itself, tho it does obviously play a useful role.
It also has some semi gimmicky cleaning sets that have major issues but can potentially work, and a lure offensive webs set. I wouldnt consider those to push it up to A+ because they arent nearly as good or reliable as its excellent main set.
 
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I feel like I'm missing something here. The first set that came to mind for me was Mega Camerupt (which looks to be pretty meta looking through here) but... it's not right.

So, By giving it a timid nature (+Speed -Attack) it should swap base 100 ATK with base 40 Speed, right? Yet with nearly full speed IVs and that nature, its speed, it's only reaching a speed stat of 225, when theoretically, with a Base 100 speed stat, it should be around 328, right? What am I missing about this metagame in my setbuilding?
 
I feel like I'm missing something here. The first set that came to mind for me was Mega Camerupt (which looks to be pretty meta looking through here) but... it's not right.

So, By giving it a timid nature (+Speed -Attack) it should swap base 100 ATK with base 40 Speed, right? Yet with nearly full speed IVs and that nature, its speed, it's only reaching a speed stat of 225, when theoretically, with a Base 100 speed stat, it should be around 328, right? What am I missing about this metagame in my setbuilding?
Camerupt-Mega is the Pokemon that people are taking about. It has an 120 attack stat, so with a timid nature and 252 EVs, it has a speed stat of 372. With this speed stat, its 145 SpAtk stat, good typing, and Sheer Force, it is a good threat.

Edit: Sorry re-read your post, maybe that is a bug? I haven't had any issues with the speed on camerupt, but I'll check again.
Edit2: With 100 speed stat and a timid nature, the speed will be 225 if there are 0 EVs and 0 IVs. Sometimes the team builder changes your stats for some reason, so maybe check your EV and IV spread again? If it's not that, it might be a bug.
 
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I feel like stall is horrendously underrepresented in the viability rankings. Almost all the mons at the top are offensive and if they can do either their offensive sets are the ones bolded.

Impish Charizard-Y for example isn't mentioned at all and it's really strong against a lot of the top threats.
+2 252 Atk Kartana Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 289-340 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kartana Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 153-181 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Aggron-Mega Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 240-284 (66.6 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Lonely, Can outspeed and roost)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 180-214 (50 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Hasty)
252 Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 146-174 (40.5 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Steelix-Mega Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 132-156 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix-Mega in Sun: 438-516 (123.7 - 145.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega in Sun: 242-288 (100.4 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega in Sun: 438-516 (181.7 - 214.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega in Sun: 328-387 (116.7 - 137.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor-Mega in Sun: 336-400 (97.9 - 116.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade in Sun: 120-144 (37.6 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It obviously has trouble with stealth rock, but it's disgustingly good at countering some of some of the scary physical attackers in the tier. In a FWG core with calm defog Kartana covering hazard control it is absurdly hard to break.

Alomamola, Hippowdon, and Quagsire are also all chilling in B- all of which are amazing on stall.
 
I feel like stall is horrendously underrepresented in the viability rankings. Almost all the mons at the top are offensive and if they can do either their offensive sets are the ones bolded.

Impish Charizard-Y for example isn't mentioned at all and it's really strong against a lot of the top threats.
+2 252 Atk Kartana Breakneck Blitz (200 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 289-340 (80.2 - 94.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
252+ SpA Choice Specs Kartana Air Slash vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 153-181 (42.5 - 50.2%) -- 1.2% chance to 2HKO
252 Atk Aggron-Mega Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 240-284 (66.6 - 78.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Lonely, Can outspeed and roost)
252+ Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 180-214 (50 - 59.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
(Hasty)
252 Atk Huge Power Mawile-Mega Thunder Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Charizard-Mega-Y: 146-174 (40.5 - 48.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
252+ SpA Steelix-Mega Dark Pulse vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Charizard-Mega-Y: 132-156 (36.6 - 43.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Steelix-Mega in Sun: 438-516 (123.7 - 145.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega in Sun: 242-288 (100.4 - 119.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Mawile-Mega in Sun: 438-516 (181.7 - 214.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Filter Aggron-Mega in Sun: 328-387 (116.7 - 137.7%) -- guaranteed OHKO
0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 248 HP / 16+ Def Scizor-Mega in Sun: 336-400 (97.9 - 116.6%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
0 Atk Charizard-Mega-Y Fire Punch vs. 240 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Doublade in Sun: 120-144 (37.6 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Stealth Rock
It obviously has trouble with stealth rock, but it's disgustingly good at countering some of some of the scary physical attackers in the tier. In a FWG core with calm defog Kartana covering hazard control it is absurdly hard to break.

Alomamola, Hippowdon, and Quagsire are also all chilling in B- all of which are amazing on stall.

do you have any replays of good stall or zardy in action? i actually meant to have impish listed but wrote bold instead, ive changed it now. i think this set is pretty decent (i posted it originally in the thread i think) and its a massive wall, it does suffer heavy competition from salamence which has more phys bulk and walls similar things (and pivots well with its ability), much easier time against the plethora of rock types, and also isnt a mega so it'll have access to leftovers and pinch berries while allowing another broken mega on the team at the same time. I think zard-y comes into play when you want a salamence but cant afford to lose to fairies. But if you have some replays I would really appreciate the addition to the discussion because I agree stall is a threat
 
One question, if I used Timid nature on something like Mega Camerupt or Magearna and i wanted them to have full speed, where will I put the EVs again? on Attack or Speed?

I tried asking this twice on Other Metas Room, but not a single person even bothered to answered it..... :psygrump:
So I thought this would be a perfect place to ask this.
 

Ivy

resident enigma
is a Live Chat Contributor
One question, if I used Timid nature on something like Mega Camerupt or Magearna and i wanted them to have full speed, where will I put the EVs again? on Attack or Speed? I tried asking this twice on Other Metas Room, but not a single person even bothered to answered it..... :psygrump:
So I thought this would be a perfect place to ask this.
The last time this meta was on the server, you put it in the actual stat that will be swapped into. So maximum Speed investment with the Timid nature on Mega Camerupt. Before this change, you used to put it into the stat being swapped FROM, which was super unintuitive.
 
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do you have any replays of good stall or zardy in action? i actually meant to have impish listed but wrote bold instead, ive changed it now. i think this set is pretty decent (i posted it originally in the thread i think) and its a massive wall, it does suffer heavy competition from salamence which has more phys bulk and walls similar things (and pivots well with its ability), much easier time against the plethora of rock types, and also isnt a mega so it'll have access to leftovers and pinch berries while allowing another broken mega on the team at the same time. I think zard-y comes into play when you want a salamence but cant afford to lose to fairies. But if you have some replays I would really appreciate the addition to the discussion because I agree stall is a threat
Sorry this took so long to compile this list of replays. Kept forgetting to save them xD. This is just a stall team I threw together to mess around with but it does pretty well. The only major modification I've made to it was swap AV tangrowth with hippowdon.

Vs kinda a troll team with 3 regis on it. Here charizard hard walled the what i assume is lonely registeel taking thunder punches to the face. Also prevented ludicolo from chilling in the rain. Shoutouts to me having now idea what lycanrock would do. was trying out WoW in this battle.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7natureswap-943403815

Here charizard prevents dhelmise, steelix, and buzzwole from sweeping KOing or forcing them out. I didn't really know what to expect from dhelmise here. This guy was running 2 calm minders, bulk up buzzwole and weakness policy steelix so my double unaware walled him quite hard.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7natureswap-943381777

Here charizard walled pretty much the opponents entire team. had to be weary of rock blast from hera and once it was revealed that bulu was special I knew it was safe from the possible stone edge. Zard took a few banded azumarill liquidations to the face which was cool. Clefable, Zard and Alomomola were basically unkillable for this guy.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7natureswap-943390120

Zard didn't do too much here. Most notably took the +2 life orb honchkrow brave bird to the face after a bit stopping my team from getting swept. woulda been very different if this guy didn't try to sucker punch kartana. The only other notable thing that happened in this battle was Hoopa getting hard walled by quagsire.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7natureswap-943395811

Here i went for a risky burn with WoW turn 1 against an aggron. For the rest of the battle zard was mostly used alongside hippo to keep the rain at bay with the general fatness of alomomola and hippo preventing the tornadus sweep.
https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7natureswap-943400999
 
HELP HELP HELP, I want to use a full defensive standard skarmory, but it does not let me have it full defensive because when I put nature on it, it reduces it, it is supposed that with shiny that should not happen but it's still happening, I need help
 
HELP HELP HELP, I want to use a full defensive standard skarmory, but it does not let me have it full defensive because when I put nature on it, it reduces it, it is supposed that with shiny that should not happen but it's still happening, I need help
One thing that I intend to avoid is granting access to regular pokemon through use of shinies, so this is an alternative that opens up options without introducing regular OU pokemon.
 

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